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  1. #1
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    Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Hello,

    Yusha Evans was A Christian Youth Minister who Reverts to Islam After a Dangerous car Accident where He Miraculously Survives where No on one could have ever survived. He opens three Martial Arts Schools but gives up away after He wants to serve Islam.


    Here's Yusha Evan's Fallacies of the New Testament http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ochM1TvVB0I
    only 10 minutes

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkaevBCU6nM

    A MUST WATCH FROM A REVERT CHRISTIAN YOUTH MINISTER . He refers to Books written by Pious Christians Against Christianity..Try watching others Parts as well.

    Recommended books By Yusha Evans

    1) History of the church by Henry chadwick
    2) Lost Christianities by Bart D Ehrman
    3)Christianity in late Antiquity by Bart .D Ehrman & Jacobs
    4) After the New Testaments By Bart .D Ehrman
    5) World of Contradictions
    6) Who Invented Christianity ?
    7) Misquoting Jesus
    and more .

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    I'd just like to thrown in my two cents worth about the books we have that are considered scripture. As far as the Christian scriptures, there are no exsistant copies of the original ,manuscripts of either testament. Remember that the current NT is based on copies of copies of copies of Greek manuscripts several centuries older then the founding of the faith. And that Jesus (as) spoke nor read either classical Greek nor Latin. He spoke Aramaic in the streets and Hebrew in the synagouges. What's my point? That these copies can and do contain errors and addtions put there by the various scribes. As a case in point, at the end of Mark's gospel Chapter 16 there has always been a debate amongst various biblical scholars about the existance of those last verse in the older manuscripts. Thisw is evident from tghe varioius renderings of the different translations of the bible into English from the KJV of 1611 to the current raft of modern renderings.
    As far as the QUR"AN goes believers from the very first years of the Ministry of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) memorized it. It's collection into,one volume was started by Abu Bakr the first leader of Islam after the Prophet. Thois preserved the QUR"AN in the original Language Arabic.
    point taken, it is true there are copies of copies, but we didn't have anyone to burn those copies of copies, and we can still go back and look. If people had memorized them before destroying them, that is not full proof, because memory can fail, There are errors in the Bible such as nonsense errors and translational errors, but the central gospel message is perfectly in tact

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    The Torah is more Closer than your NT and Jews say you are polytheists ? Because Jesus called as your God and My God so its 100 % sure he did not utter those words I am he

    JOHN 2O :16-17'' She turned and said to him in Aramaic, “Rabbouni” (which means Teacher).

    17 Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold on to me, for I haven’t yet gone up to my Father. Go to my brothers and sisters and tell them,
    ‘I’m going up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’

    You LIED again ( as I always Claim) see I find the verse you quoted fraudulently without quoting the chapter verse number
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-5&version=CJB

    Isaiah 41 :4

    Whose work is this? Who has brought it about?
    He who called the generations from the beginning,
    I, Adonai, am the first;and I am the same with those who are last.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...-5&version=CJB[/COLOR]

    LIAR EXPOSED , just once AGAIN
    I have never heard a Jew say that to me

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    during the administration of Abu Bakr, There were scribes sent forth to speak with the the Sahaba (companions) of the Prophet and other lead9ing Muslims to write down the revelations of ALLAH (swt) that fell fro0m the Lips of God's Prophet that they commited to memory. Although the work was finished within the time of Uthman this still places the recording of the QUR"AN well before the earliest manuscript of the new testament. What is mean by this is compare. In the matter of the years of seperation from revelation of ALLAH to the prophet Muhammad, The QUR"AN was compiled into one volume fairly close to the time of it's inception. Less than four decades. In relation to the burning of the copies of the QUR"AN during the time of the Caliphs, who is to say what was burnt? One could draw the same conclusion when the Canon of the bible was put together. Other than the 66 bo0oks of tbhe protestabt version or the 77 books of the Cathoilc version who's to sat that there weren't Books of scripture that were of equal importance omitted? Granted some of the aphocraphyl books are questionable and are centered on the OT canon, Who is to say books of equal import weren't deleted from the NT?
    Last edited by FAREED1952; 13-02-15 at 04:53 AM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    during the administration of Abu Bakr, There were scribes sent forth to speak with the the Sahaba (companions) of the Prophet and other lead9ing Muslims to write down the revelations of ALLAH (swt) that fell fro0m the Lips of God's Prophet that they commited to memory. Although the work was finished within the time of Uthman this still places the recording of the QUR"AN well before the earliest manuscript of the new testament. What is mean by this is compare. In the matter of the years of seperation from revelation of ALLAH to the prophet Muhammad, The QUR"AN was compiled into one volume fairly close to the time of it's inception. Less than four decades. In relation to the burning of the copies of the QUR"AN during the time of the Caliphs, who is to say what was burnt? One could draw the same conclusion when the Canon of the bible was put together. Other than the 66 bo0oks of tbhe protestabt version or the 77 books of the Cathoilc version who's to sat that there weren't Books of scripture that were of equal importance omitted? Granted some of the aphocraphyl books are questionable and are centered on the OT canon, Who is to say books of equal import weren't deleted from the NT?
    This is true, be that as it may, the central gospel message is the issue and that is what separates Christianity and Islam: The death and resurrection of Jesus. It is not just the gospel we get that from; the OT books support it Jesus was to take on our sin.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    This is true, be that as it may, the central gospel message is the issue and that is what separates Christianity and Islam: The death and resurrection of Jesus. It is not just the gospel we get that from; the OT books support it Jesus was to take on our sin.
    I just got done reading some Wikicyclopedia (I think I go that right) on the history of the canon of the bible, a list of books that were considered by some to be 'extra', and a List of the various gospels and epistles that were either rejected out right or later removed by the various bible socities of the 19th and 2`0th centuries. and the list is staggering. Some of the omitted book included gospels that were written by gnostics. some were written by Jewish believers that held to the law of God and the Gospel of Jesus (as) . It is amazing that the KJV in 1611 still had the same number of books as the catholic canon of scripture as the KJV was authorized by a King that was considered the head of the Church o n earth, the Anglican Church or Church of England, ( Roman Catholic light). Some of the rejected books of the NT era were the various acts of the apostles that were far more supernatural in nature than the Acts of the Apostles, And the verision of the OT that a lot or early translators used was in Greek too. (the septuigent) . This version is rejected by the Jews even today because it is not in Hebrew. So without those books who is to say what is really the message other than Jesus (as) tasught us to worship "my God and Your God'. the hour again is late and I must retire. Tomorrow is Friday and I will attend the services at the Masjid. Good Night.
    Last edited by FAREED1952; 13-02-15 at 06:01 AM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    I just got done reading some Wikicyclopedia (I think I go that right) on the histoiry of the canon of the bible, a list of books that were considered by some to be 'extra', and a List of the various gospels and epistles that were either rejected out right or later emoved by the various bible socities of the 19th and 2`0th centuries. and the list is staggering. Some of the omitted book included gospels that were written by gnostics. some were written by Jewish believers that held to the law of God and the Gospel of Jesus (as) . It is amazing that the KJV in 1611 still had the same number of books as the catholic canon of scripture as the KJV was authorized by a King that was considered the head of the Church o n earth, the Anglican Church or Church of England, ( Roman Catholic light). Som eof the rejected books of the NT era were the various acts of the aapostles that were far morte supernatural in nature than the Acts of the Apostles, And the verision of the OT that a lot or early translators used was in greek too. (the septuigent) . This version is rejected by the Jews even today because it is not in Hebrew. So without those books who is to say what is really the message other than Jesus (as) tasught us to worship "my God and Your God'. the hour again is late and I must retire. Tomorrow is Friday and I will attend the services at the Masjid. Good Night.
    Okay, I am not in disagreement with the my God and your God part of what Jesus said. So we agree together there. that is a good thing

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    I am just waiting for ,the evening meds to take effect. I was wrong about the time period of the compilatipon of all the various recorded recitaitons of the Holy QUR'AN. It was not Forty years It was only 20 years after the death fo the Prophet Muhammd (PBUH) . So from that time to now the QUR'AN has remained unchanged as to what was revealed by ALLAH (swt) to the Prophet (PBUH).. About the only 'revision ' to the text has been the additon to the classic Arabic text of dots over certain letters to indicate vowels, which like in Hebrew are not in the alpahbet . Even without these dialectic marks a student of classical Arabic can still pronounce the words correctly.
    Last edited by FAREED1952; 13-02-15 at 04:52 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    I am just waiting for ,the evening meds to take effect. I was wrong about the time period of the compilatipon of all the various recorded recitaitons of the Holy QUR'AN. It was not Forty years It was only 20 years after the death fo the Prophet Muhammd (PBUH) . So from that time to now the QUR'AN has remained unchanged as to what was revealed by ALLAH (swt) to the Prophet (PBUH).. About the only 'revision ' to the text has been the additon to the classic Arabic text of dots over certain letters to indicate vowels, which like in Hebrew are not in the alpahbet . Even without these dialectic marks a student of classical Arabic can still pronounce the words correctly.
    I have a couple of questions for you. Could I pray for you healing tonight. I am in America the same time as South and North Carolina. Next Question would you agree to the prayer me and Hate Racism agreed to?

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ4u View Post
    I have a couple of questions for you. Could I pray for you healing tonight. I am in America the same time as South and North Carolina. Next Question would you agree to the prayer me and Hate Racism agreed to?
    I have no objection to it. And Shukrn. (thanks in Arabic)

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    I have no objection to it. And Shukrn. (thanks in Arabic)
    Well, that excites me; say when

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    anytime you want. I am not stuick on formaoties ofeprsonal prayer.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    anytime you want. I am not stuick on formaoties ofeprsonal prayer.
    Okay, I have eastern time in the US how about 10: 15 PM today? What time would that be for you?

  14. #93
    Odan talibilm09's Avatar
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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    during the administration of Abu Bakr, There were scribes sent forth to speak with the the Sahaba (companions) of the Prophet and other lead9ing Muslims to write down the revelations of ALLAH (swt) that fell fro0m the Lips of God's Prophet that they commited to memory. Although the work was finished within the time of Uthman this still places the recording of the QUR"AN well before the earliest manuscript of the new testament. What is mean by this is compare. In the matter of the years of seperation from revelation of ALLAH to the prophet Muhammad, The QUR"AN was compiled into one volume fairly close to the time of it's inception. Less than four decades. In relation to the burning of the copies of the QUR"AN during the time of the Caliphs, who is to say what was burnt? One could draw the same conclusion when the Canon of the bible was put together. Other than the 66 bo0oks of tbhe protestabt version or the 77 books of the Cathoilc version who's to sat that there weren't Books of scripture that were of equal importance omitted? Granted some of the aphocraphyl books are questionable and are centered on the OT canon, Who is to say books of equal import weren't deleted from the NT?

    Asalamalikum/ greetings of peace

    kindly read all the links of post # 42 in this thread which also describes many matter regarding the systematic compilation of the Noble Quran



    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ption+of+sikhs

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post

    Asalamalikum/ greetings of peace

    kindly read all the links of post # 42 in this thread which also describes many matter regarding the systematic compilation of the Noble Quran



    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ption+of+sikhs
    Asalam Alasikum Brother:
    ^Thanks for the Links I will read the,m later this morning Inshallah.It is near one O'clock here in mId Missouri abd I need to get to bed. My wife and i try to catch fajr every morning but sometime the meds I am on makes me sleep way too deep. Shukrn and Wa ALaikum Salam : '

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    The New Testament is fallacies of to the Muslim, but to the Christian, it is the truth and good news and glad tiding of the NT

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Bump, Yusha Evans a deserves to be remembered as The Revert who tried the hardest to find his Creator.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Bump

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    A man can be a Son first and then latter becomes a father after few decades.

    but a Son cannot be his OWN FATHER as in the triune concept which is a OPEN MISGUIDANCE of Shaitan .
    bump

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Bumped for some one who's interested in islam, may allah help him to clear his problems , ameen

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    A man can be a Son first and then latter becomes a father after few decades.

    but a Son cannot be his OWN FATHER as in the triune concept which is a OPEN MISGUIDANCE of Shaitan .
    I agree a Son cannot be his own father, and one must certainly be under the Misguidance of Satan to believe so. Praise the Lord Christians have never believed such a thing. Even Trinitarian christians have never believed Jesus is the Father! So where would you get such an idea yourself?

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    I agree a Son cannot be his own father, and one must certainly be under the Misguidance of Satan to believe so. Praise the Lord Christians have never believed such a thing. Even Trinitarian christians have never believed Jesus is the Father! So where would you get such an idea yourself?
    Bart Erhman , he is the one who said that and He said it right when you people always quote '' I and my Father are 1 ''
    Last edited by talibilm09; 23-10-15 at 02:18 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Bart Erhman , he is the one who said that and He said it right when you people always quote '' I and my Father are 1 ''
    Really? Do you have the source where he said such a thing? Is it possible you may have misunderstood what he meant? When Jesus said - "I and the Father are ONE", it was not a literal statement, or even Biblical teaching. If Bart Erhman knows anything at all about christianity (and he should) then he should know that simple fact.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    Really? Do you have the source where he said such a thing? Is it possible you may have misunderstood what he meant?.
    He said in a youtube clip I will try to find from his 10's of videos( from my memory) where he said that during rebuking THOSE ASSUMPTIONS of the Christians proved against Historical , Logical Incidents like the Roman Kings leaving never allowed any decent burial to any of its accused and found guilty who were nailed on the cross but left them on the cross to be eaten by Scavengers and viewed by the public as a lesson not to commit those crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    When Jesus said - "I and the Father are ONE", it was not a literal statement, or even Biblical teaching. If Bart Erhman knows anything at all about christianity (and he should) then he should know that simple fact.
    Here is the Testimony REFUSED or DEBUNKED by None of the Audience HERE
    .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT5BiS9kxk
    Last edited by talibilm09; 23-10-15 at 11:44 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post


    He said in a youtube clip I will try to find from his 10's of videos( from my memory) where he said that during rebuking THOSE ASSUMPTIONS of the Christians proved against Historical , Logical Incidents like the Roman Kings leaving never allowed any decent burial to any of its accused and found guilty who were nailed on the cross but left them on the cross to be eaten by Scavengers and viewed by the public as a lesson not to commit those crimes.



    Here is the Testimony REFUSED or DEBUNKED by None of the Audience HERE
    .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT5BiS9kxk
    Think it's the wrong clip. This clip is of Deedat. I was asking for your source from Erhman.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    Think it's the wrong clip. This clip is of Deedat. I was asking for your source from Erhman.
    I know you had asked for Bart Erhmans clip where he said '' a son cannot be his own father '' which will take time because i have to watch many of his videos first.

    I gave Deedat 's video just to prove what you said-

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    Really? Do you have the source where he said such a thing? Is it possible you may have misunderstood what he meant? When Jesus said - "I and the Father are ONE", it was not a literal statement, or even Biblical teaching. If Bart Erhman knows anything at all about christianity (and he should) then he should know that simple fact.

    - was wrong when you people quote this John 10:30 ' I and My Father are one '' as the article of faith proving Jesus Indeed said he is the Father or God . I don't believe you that you did not even knew this verse is in your Holy Book
    Last edited by talibilm09; 24-10-15 at 02:03 AM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    I know you had asked for Bart Erhmans clip where he said '' a son cannot be his own father '' which will take time because i have to watch many of his videos first.
    Ok, I'll wait for the Erhman clip, it doesn't have to be YouTube, a link to an article of his where he said christians believe Jesus is God the Father will do.

    I gave Deedat 's video just to prove what you said-



    - was wrong when you people quote this John 10:30 ' I and My Father are one '' as the article of faith proving Jesus Indeed said he is the Father or God . I don't believe you that you did not even knew this verse is in your Holy Book
    Doesn't matter what you think about what I believe or don't believe. I don't rate Mr Deedats opinions any higher than your own when it comes to christianity. Jesus never claimed to be God the Father. End of.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    Ok, I'll wait for the Erhman clip, it doesn't have to be YouTube, a link to an article of his where he said christians believe Jesus is God the Father will do.



    Doesn't matter what you think about what I believe or don't believe. I don't rate Mr Deedats opinions any higher than your own when it comes to christianity. Jesus never claimed to be God the Father. End of.
    I shall post it when I find it. But why would you expect Bart to say that which is not a hidden secret . Buts its open secret from your books ' I & my father are one ''

    So while Mr Deedat says Jesus meant by the CONTEXT in ''PURPOSE'' but you people took it in person (1+1+1=1) Lol , what is there to be perplexed about it ? This where we separate. Are you joking when you say you do not understand this.

    About Deedat he knew more than your priests and Pastors all put together . He gave answers which the whole christiandom was dumb about . watch that vdo again and get enlightened mate.

    note : My similees are not working or I would have smiled
    Last edited by talibilm09; 26-10-15 at 01:45 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    I shall post it when I find it. But why would you expect Bart to say that which is not a hidden secret . Buts its open secret from your books ' I & my father are one ''
    I ask for your source on Erhman because IMHO I feel you may have misunderstood what he said. He may be an atheist but he has studied biblical texts so I would expect him to be clear in his claims with regards to how christians see Jesus in relation to God. Which is Jesus is NOT God the father.

    So while Mr Deedat says Jesus said in ''PURPOSE'' but you people took it in person (1+1+1=1) Lol , what is there to be perplexed about it ? This where we separate. Are you joking when you say you do not understand this.
    Show me the Bible verse where Jesus said He was one in "purpose" with God. I'm not interested in how Mr Deedat changed or added words to scripture to make his point. I understand perfectly how Jesus (Son) and God (Father) are shown in the Bible. I doubt that you understand what Erhman had to say on the matter, hence I asked for your source so I can check it out for myself.

    About Deedat he knew more than your priests and Pastors all put together . He gave answers which the whole christiandom was dumb about . watch that vdo again and get enlightened mate.

    note : My similees are not working or I would have smiled
    He did not really, but I know muslims felt he did. That's fine. Doesn't change the truth any. I could explain to you on why this one verse in isolation can't be taken to mean simply one in purpose. There are a few issues to consider before reaching a conclusion. On past performance I don't see anything would gained so best you're left in your comfort zone where you are happy.

    Think my smilies are working so here's a

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    I ask for your source on Erhman because IMHO I feel you may have misunderstood what he said. He may be an atheist but he has studied biblical texts so I would expect him to be clear in his claims with regards to how christians see Jesus in relation to God. Which is Jesus is NOT God the father.
    I am having problems with my internet its too slow for youtube , PROBABLY this is the video .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte-ad6Y31s

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    Show me the Bible verse where Jesus said He was one in "purpose" with God. I'm not interested in how Mr Deedat changed or added words to scripture to make his point. I understand perfectly how Jesus (Son) and God (Father) are shown in the Bible. I doubt that you understand what Erhman had to say on the matter, hence I asked for your source so I can check it out for myself.
    I did not say the bible said as one in '' Purpose ''. But the proofs from verse 23 of John gives THE CONTEXT what Jesus meant by saying so ' I and My father are one ''

    Context is very essential when we are taking about holy books and things about the very past and even some matters of difference of opinion in the Noble Quran have been misquoted taking out of CONTEXT like the verse like Kill the Polytheisers on which you should have seen my thread and my arguments with muslims . So Deedat's CONTEXT is the exact one in our opinion though you might not accept it which is not a hidden secret.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    I am having problems with my internet its too slow for youtube , PROBABLY this is the video .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte-ad6Y31s
    This clip is like almost an hour long!! It took ages to load and sorry to say I gave up waiting for him to come to any meaningful point anytime soon. No problem I'll do some searching of my own. You seem to set much store by this guy, in the bits I did watch (about 20 minutes) he made what I thought were some obvious errors. Another thing surprised me, he teaches or taught religion at a college, yet he considers himself an agnostic, how can such a person teach religion if he's not sure what he actually believes in?

    I did not say the bible said as one in '' Purpose ''. But the proofs from verse 23 of John gives THE CONTEXT what Jesus meant by saying so ' I and My father are one ''
    It came across that way in your post. Fact remains Jesus never said the words "one in purpose" and the context of scripture doesn't show that to be the case.

    Context is very essential when we are taking about holy books and things about the very past and even some matters of difference of opinion in the Noble Quran have been misquoted taking out of CONTEXT like the verse like Kill the Polytheisers on which you should have seen my thread and my arguments with muslims . So Deedat's CONTEXT is the exact one in our opinion though you might not accept it which is not a hidden secret.
    Mr Deedat didn't bother much about context. Although as you rightly say it's essential if one is to understand scripture. I'm not sure what's your angle with "secrets hidden or open". But allow me for a minute to demonstrate some rules of context which need to be considered regarding the claim Jesus made ~ " I and the Father are One" five points to take into consideration.

    1. Jesus claimed to be one with God in the sense of being equal to Him. Jesus did not claim to be merely a messenger or prophet of God, but of equal power with God. See the I AM statements Jesus made.

    2. It's important to know the audience Jesus was addressing here. His audience understood that Jesus was claiming equality with God the Father. In verse 31 we see - “The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.” - Why? Blasphemy was a crime punishable by death according to the Jewish Law. When Jesus asked why they were planning to kill Him, they answered, “For blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God”- (John 10:33). If Jesus had been lying or deceived, His statement would have been blasphemous. In fact, the only way His words were not blasphemy is if Jesus was telling the truth about His equality with God. If Jesus was claiming to be simply another prophet in a line of prophets there would have been no need of any charge of blasphemy.

    3. Jesus referred to Himself as God’s Son and to God as His Father (John 10:36–37) - ’ because I said, ‘I’m the Son of God’?

    4. Jesus claimed that that Father sent Him: “the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world”- (John 10:36). In this statement we see Jesus claimed preexistence in the Father’s presence. No biblical prophet had ever made such a claim before; yet Jesus claimed to exist before Abraham (John 8:58) - Jesus told them - 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    5. Jesus only stated that the Jews did not believe Him; He never said they misunderstood His claim to be God. John 10:38 notes, “Even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” Jesus was not correcting a misunderstanding. They understood what He said perfectly. He was correcting their willful rejection of Him.

    So in summary, Jesus claimed to be one with the Father as part of a larger argument to note that He had existed from eternity past, lived in perfect oneness with the Father, held the same power as God, and was sent by God the Father’s authority. Unfortunately, He was rejected as divine by the Jewish leaders. Jesus’ claim to have equal power as the Father was not blasphemy. It was the plain truth.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    This clip is like almost an hour long!! It took ages to load and sorry to say I gave up waiting for him to come to any meaningful point anytime soon. No problem I'll do some searching of my own. You seem to set much store by this guy, in the bits I did watch (about 20 minutes) he made what I thought were some obvious errors. Another thing surprised me, he teaches or taught religion at a college, yet he considers himself an agnostic, how can such a person teach religion if he's not sure what he actually believes in?
    .
    Pip 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte-ad6Y31s

    If you want to dissuade others from watching the above video you better keep your mouth shut than uttering BLUNT LIES as the video is just 38 minutes and not one hour as you claim and there is no problem in the quality of the video . an another Lie. I told you My internet had problems earlier of the speed and after a while its absolutely good and the quality is much better than other You tube videos . So I am loosing interest to explain anything to Liars like you which I always see among the Christians . the verse you quoted that Bible say not to Lie is just a joke for you people, so that's why God has made you in the religion of lies because you love it '' The lies'' .

    Bart was a hardcore Evangelist but after his research which PROVED him tons of Mistakes ,lies in the Bible he turned agnostic He also asks why can't God safe guard his words ? But still he loves you people Christians that's why he does not DECLARE THE CRUCIFICTION IS A LIE but he allows audience to listen to him like a historian and keep their views to themselves which shows he is still Loyal to his people and does not want to hurt their feelings. Great Man , Prof Erhman is who has the real Spirit of truth in him. Watch rebutal from Craig his classmate from his religious school and you can clearly seeBart stands for the truth while Craig is speaking for money of his sponsors. Frankly You people if you really WANT TO BE GUIDED YOU OWE A HUGE GRATITUDE TO MR ERHMAN.

    When you can't even appreciate the truth speaking Person like Bart Erhman who gives very clear historic facts and figures and who is also trusted by the shrewd Archeological Dept of Israel for any research on antiquites scrolls they find because of his unbiased spirit then how are you going to even trust Mr Deedat and the least. me ??.

    You are just a waste of time like Arbed . . So Pip1 , Arbed and others keep chanting whatever that makes you happy and when you close your eyes for good you will see the reality and the most stupid mistake of you life of following your ego and arrogance.
    Last edited by talibilm09; 25-10-15 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Pip 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yte-ad6Y31s

    If you want to dissuade others from watching the above video you better keep your mouth shut than uttering BLUNT LIES as the video is just 38 minutes and not one hour as you claim and there is no problem in the quality of the video . an another Lie. I told you My internet had problems earlier of the speed and after a while its absolutely good and the quality is much better than other You tube videos . So I am loosing interest to explain anything to Liars like you which I always see among the Christians . the verse you quoted that Bible say not to Lie is just a joke for you people, so that's why God has made you in the religion of lies because you love it '' The lies'' .


    Lol..man what's your problem? Coming at me with childish threats! Better keep my mouth shut, or what????????? 38 mins seems like almost an hour when it took an age to load ON MY LAP TOP. I also had lots of buffering to add to the annoyance, possibly down to my Internet speed granted. All in all I found the poor experience of watching it out weighed any possible advantages of waiting for him to get to the point. As I said I will do my own research on Mr Erhman, I'm sure he has a paper or written article available online, certainly not paying for one of his books lol.

    As for you, and your attitude you can please yourself. No point discussing any further with anyone who resorts to playground tactics of calling people liars because they happen to disagree with you.

    Bart was a hardcore Evangelist but after his research which PROVED him tons of Mistakes ,lies in the Bible he turned agnostic He also asks why can't God safe guard his words ? But still he loves you people Christians that's why he does not DECLARE THE CRUCIFICTION IS A LIE but he allows audience to listen to him like a historian and keep their views to themselves which shows he is still Loyal to his people and does not want to hurt their feelings. Great Man , Prof Erhman is who has the real Spirit of truth in him. Watch rebutal from Craig his classmate from his religious school and you can clearly seeBart stands for the truth while Craig is speaking for money of his sponsors. Frankly You people if you really WANT TO BE GUIDED YOU OWE A HUGE GRATITUDE TO MR ERHMAN.
    What exactly is a "hardcore evangelist" and why should I care what he has to say over the next "expert"? What does the eminent Prof Erhman have to say about Islam? Or hasn't he got round to that yet? When he starts a similar hatchet job will you still hold him in such high esteem?

    When you can't even appreciate the truth speaking Person like Bart Erhman who gives very clear historic facts and figures and who is also trusted by the shrewd Archeological Dept of Israel for any research on antiquites scrolls they find because of his unbiased spirit then how are you going to even trust Mr Deedat and the least. me ??.
    I can appreciate his work on textual criticism on the New Testament, on that he has some good points, I don't have to agree with him on every thing he claims because sometimes he is just plain wrong. Mr Deedat was a muslim why should I take his opinion on biblical scripture? He believed for the Qur'an to be right the Bible had to be wrong because they do not bring the same message, obviously his arguments had to be framed with this bias in mind. Muslims loved him because he told them what they wanted to hear. Christians remained unconvinced. As for you, sorry but you understand nothing of Bible scripture, you rely on Internet "experts" for your information. You should have more faith yourself and your own abilities. So no, I have zero faith in what you say, I'm sure you know your stuff when it comes to the Qur'an so best you stick to that.

    You are just a waste of time like Arbed . . So Pip1 , Arbed and others keep chanting whatever that makes you happy and when you close your eyes for good you will see the reality and the most stupid mistake of you life of following your ego and arrogance.
    Yeah right thanks for that. All you say above can be applied to yourself. I would never say you are a waste of time. But there you go. Have a good life.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Pip 1

    calling 37.53 minutes as an almost one hour = at least 40 % of exaggeration , try it with a calculator but you say Nay , not a exaggeration or a LIE AT ALL and name it as ' playground tactics ' . That's the way how you people got MISLEAD in every issue including your Religion but you never felt its seriousness and that PUSHED you DEEP into Shirk , which is the greatest Sin in Islam. Every exaggeration is deemed as a Lie and thus Christians like you, went on with lies and assumptions,no wonder to make more than 40,000 denominations (wiki) This is not allowed in islam not even to exaggerate even 1 % That's big sin too that will land us in Hell. see my last reply about it with only hadiths ref but I did not give you yet our Noble Quran refs. post # 98 & 99 in http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...Mohammed/page3

    Liars deserve to be in the Religion of Lies and I do not feel exchanging ideas with them since we mostly end up back to square 1 with such people and so I call it a waste of time when the Most educated Sincere Christian Scholar like Bart can't satisfy you ( he turned agnostic after sincerely serving Christianity more than 30 years) . So you have selected yourselves your destination and will be responsible for your decision and also responsible to every person whom you misguide.. Allah is right that you are Blind and deaf to his warnings in the last Book, the Noble Quran WHICH GUIDES TO ALL TRUTH . No Doubt.
    Last edited by talibilm09; 26-10-15 at 01:43 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    bump , the answer to your claims below is in the above post . This what I mean by adding lies here in post 99 in the below thread where you had quoted me

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...Mohammed/page3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    Revelation 22:18-19

    18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book. 19 If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book.

    Do you mean a warning along the same lines as this one above? If we add or change or do not in truth relay the message God revealed in the Bible, we'll be struck by plagues and eternal life denied us. That's a pretty strong clear message to me and an incentive to abide by Gods truth.

    Is the Bible a Holy Book? If you feel it is then you should accord it the same respect and reverence that you would your own Holy Book. To be honest, you haven't on the whole shown this in many of your posts dealing with Biblical scripture.
    This is just to prove my Point to You and Serada when I say that Muslims are barred to speak any lie about their books and such minute illustrations proving what I say are very clearly seen in the companions of our Prophet (pbuh)
    Last edited by talibilm09; 26-10-15 at 01:40 PM.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    bump , the answer to your claims below is in the above post . This what I mean by adding lies here in post 99 in the below thread where you had quoted me

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...Mohammed/page3



    This is just to prove my Point to You and Serada when I say that Muslims are barred to speak any lie about their books and such minute illustrations proving what I say are very clearly seen in the companions of our Prophet (pbuh)
    Sorry mate, I'm not playing your games any more. wish you well though.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Bump

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    Yusha Evans - I Quit my Job to go to Jummah




    www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_U1ifMpgI0
    @Pip1

    Hi, You are calling this great person a seeker of Money through Dawah , Kindly be fair in your judgement.

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    @Pip1

    Hi, You are calling this great person a seeker of Money through Dawah , Kindly be fair in your judgement.
    report him for slandering yusha evans
    Please Please Please Make Dua for these Click Here JazakAllahi

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by talibilm09 View Post
    @Pip1

    Hi, You are calling this great person a seeker of Money through Dawah , Kindly be fair in your judgement.

    You really need to read posts with greater care. I did not say he was a seeker of money, I said I expect he could make more money on the Dawah circuit than he could as a man of the cloth. Seeing as generally the average Vicar, Pastor, Priest etc don't command very high salaries. I guess I am a bit suspect of the motives of converts to any faith not just Islam I can understand why they wish to reinforce their new found beliefs so publicly. But to be honest many who do so don't do Islam any favours and when they start dissing christianity they do even worse as many demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding in regards to the faith they've just ditched.

    I'm sure Mr Evans does a fine job in your eyes and in the eyes of many muslims. I don't have much interested in how he found his way but if he's happy then that's all good. As I said wealth in this world means nothing.

    **** I doubt he would ever have made Pastor or a Bishop, you have to walk with Christ to achieve that. Wealth in this world means nothing, I expect he could make more money on the Dawah circuit than he ever could as a man of the cloth.****

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    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Quote Originally Posted by Pip1 View Post
    You really need to read posts with greater care. I did not say he was a seeker of money, I said I expect he could make more money on the Dawah circuit than he could as a man of the cloth. Seeing as generally the average Vicar, Pastor, Priest etc don't command very high salaries. I guess I am a bit suspect of the motives of converts to any faith not just Islam I can understand why they wish to reinforce their new found beliefs so publicly. But to be honest many who do so don't do Islam any favours and when they start dissing christianity they do even worse as many demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding in regards to the faith they've just ditched.

    I'm sure Mr Evans does a fine job in your eyes and in the eyes of many muslims. I don't have much interested in how he found his way but if he's happy then that's all good. As I said wealth in this world means nothing.

    **** I doubt he would ever have made Pastor or a Bishop, you have to walk with Christ to achieve that. Wealth in this world means nothing, I expect he could make more money on the Dawah circuit than he ever could as a man of the cloth.****
    Then its no issues but watch Mr Evans says that no man would have gone into so much trouble to find his Creator as he did and when finally he started feeling that he will never find his true Creator, at last he found him from the Noble Quran and it was like an overjoy from a supposed to be the greatest disappointment after his years of search , watch his words at about 7 minutes to 8 minutes ticker in this video .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXcJ4b84-Lk

    Thats why most the converts breakdown ( tears of Joy ) while reciting the shahada since its a great reunion with their lord, Allah, Their Creator, like a lost child meets her mother after decades of search.

    Do not think everyone thinks they way you think (its also for me) and ONLY GOOD, benevolent People when they knew that they have achieved something they want it for others as well & they are not selfish to keep their secret or success for themselves alone since the Sin of dying without finding your lord, The Creator is the Greatest sin that will end in hell for eternity so that's why those who enter Islam with sincerity start to do dawah to save their human kind. and even Bart is doing now the same but he needs his people so he does not attack them directly.
    Last edited by talibilm09; 04-06-16 at 04:24 PM.

 

 

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