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  1. #1
    Odan Magic.'s Avatar
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    So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Islam?

    Asalamualaykum.

    I thought stealing in all circumstances is wrong.

    So what should a Muslim if God forbid they find themselves in that situation?

    I'm just curious.

    Thankyou.

  2. #41
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumanah View Post
    Dua alone won't help these people, it can give you strength but you also need to take the initiative for your own survival.
    I agree with what this brother says. We must always do dua and back it up by action. I am proof of this when I wanted to avoid a major sin. I felt all doors were closed and ALLAH opened them for me. But I did not just sit there and make constant dua. It would be ignorant. I went out and tried my best to avoid the major sin.

    I remember hearing a story where a guy would beg in the masjid all day for money from ALLAH and just sit there and do nothing to get it. Anyway, the prophet Muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him heard of this, and said that this man was ignorant. Does anyone know of that hadith and can they post it?

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    If you have nothing, then Allah is everything.

    Stealing is wrong.

    It's hard not to realise they're in a terrible situation. Do you think Allah does not know that? Allah knows better than me or you what situation they're in.
    .
    Who gave me the nice house with a roof over my head with my family intact and a steady source of income? Allah did.

    If he's merciful as you claim to be, then what's so contradictory in what I am appealing to. It's Allah that I'm supporting after all.
    It's Allah's swt's Mercy that allows people to eat haram or take food that is not theirs if they are STARVING. if it is just because they are greedy or whatnot, it's a totally different concept. You should keep in mind the Context
    Fabi-ayyiala -i rabbikuma tukaththibani
    Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8DR8frP_s

    You are not here just to fill space or to be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    If you have nothing, then Allah is everything.

    Stealing is wrong.

    It's hard not to realise they're in a terrible situation. Do you think Allah does not know that? Allah knows better than me or you what situation they're in.

    Who gave me the nice house with a roof over my head with my family intact and a steady source of income? Allah did.

    If he's merciful as you claim to be, then what's so contradictory in what I am appealing to. It's Allah that I'm supporting after all.
    If you didn't study or bother to find a job and just sat at home everyday, you think that job would come knocking on your door? You still took an initiative (if you currently hold a job, that is).

    A lot of non-muslims say that the 'Muslim version' of God is harsh and judgemental. If this is what Muslims think Allah is like, completely unable to understand someone's plight and adamant that one rule exists for ALL situations, then I can't say I disagree with them.
    Last edited by Jumanah; 11-11-13 at 11:13 PM.

  5. #44
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by firestar101 View Post
    I agree with what this brother says. We must always do dua and back it up by action. I am proof of this when I wanted to avoid a major sin. I felt all doors were closed and ALLAH opened them for me. But I did not just sit there and make constant dua. It would be ignorant. I went out and tried my best to avoid the major sin.

    I remember hearing a story where a guy would beg in the masjid all day for money from ALLAH and just sit there and do nothing to get it. Anyway, the prophet Muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him heard of this, and said that this man was ignorant. Does anyone know of that hadith and can they post it?

    Sometimes du'a alone is enough.
    I remember when there was a music video I kept returning to, and I made du'a after every time I made salah, to forgive me and take me away from it. I came back onto the computer, I felt compelled by guilt not to watch it anymore. That was not my action. It was truly down to Allah.

  6. #45
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by nousername View Post
    It is permissible for whoever does not find food to eat and fears to die–whether he is in the desert or else– to eat pork just to allay his hunger and save himself from death. The evidence about this is the saying of Allaah (which means): {He has forbidden you only the dead animals, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allaah (or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., on which Allaah's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering).But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Truly, Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.}[Quran 2:173] Allaah also Says (what means): {…while He has explained in detail to you what He has forbidden you, excepting that to which you are compelled.}[Quran 6:119]
    Allaah Knows best.

    http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...waId&Id=117406

    So if you are dying or physicially very harmed from not eating, and in this case you can eat swine, it shows the precidence of saving yourself.
    If that is the only thing you can find, as Ibn Kathir says, then sure. But that does not say steal the pig.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumanah View Post
    If you didn't study or bother to find a job and just sat at home everyday, you think that job would come knocking on your door? You still took an initiative (if you currently hold a job, that is).

    A lot of non-muslims say that the 'Muslim version' of God is harsh and judgemental. If this is what Muslims think Allah is like, completely unable to understand someone's plight and adamant that one rule exists for ALL situations, then I can't say I disagree with them.
    It could if it wanted to be.

    But to maximise my chance of success, finding a job would help.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is




    Quote Originally Posted by nousername View Post
    dire situation, life and death. Allah swt is merciful and while stealing is wrong, there are exceptions. Even you are allowed to eat a pig if it is all you have.
    just quickly want to mention a case our teacher shared with us from the time of 'umar radiallahu 'anhu, where he suspended the hadd punishment for theft during a period of famine on the basis of al maslahah al mursalah [unrestricted public interest]

    so it's not as clear cut as some may think, we should be careful of what we say on this particular topic..
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    If that is the only thing you can find, as Ibn Kathir says, then sure. But that does not say steal the pig.
    you are really getting into symantics. Eating haram and stealing are both haram. But there is a time when it is allowed, but disliked.
    Fabi-ayyiala -i rabbikuma tukaththibani
    Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?
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    You are not here just to fill space or to be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us.

  10. #49
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    The Prophet according to the hadith was tested the most.

    So did he steal?

    No.

    Again, why do you not see that whatever has come his way, only Allah can relieve him.


    I'm looking for specific evidence in how one should deal with the matter. Stealing completely rips whatever the Qur'an says about enduring hardship.
    I agree. Did the prophet Muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him not resort to eating leaves and so did the companions. That is what the people of syria are going through, in that they are having to eat leaves and grass to survive.

    But remember bro, each person is different. A lot of people will steal to help their famalies. When you have children at home starving, then a lot of things go through your mind and your thinking may not be rational. May ALLAH forgive them if they do steal.

    I know if I was in their position I might do the same thing and many people here would also probably. It is easy to judhe when sitting behind a computer screen in what many would consider luxury.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by firestar101 View Post
    I agree. Did the prophet Muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him not resort to eating leaves and so did the companions. That is what the people of syria are going through, in that they are having to eat leaves and grass to survive.

    But remember bro, each person is different. A lot of people will steal to help their famalies. When you have children at home starving, then a lot of things go through your mind and your thinking may not be rational. May ALLAH forgive them if they do steal.

    I know if I was in their position I might do the same thing and many people here would also probably. It is easy to judhe when sitting behind a computer screen in what many would consider luxury.
    the people of syria are resorting to eating cats, dogs and donkeys. They are normally haram.
    Fabi-ayyiala -i rabbikuma tukaththibani
    Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8DR8frP_s

    You are not here just to fill space or to be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    It could if it wanted to be.

    But to maximise my chance of success, finding a job would help.
    I disagree, but we're just going to go back and forth on our respective points, so I'll end this here.

  13. #52
    Odan firestar101's Avatar
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    Sometimes du'a alone is enough.
    I remember when there was a music video I kept returning to, and I made du'a after every time I made salah, to forgive me and take me away from it. I came back onto the computer, I felt compelled by guilt not to watch it anymore. That was not my action. It was truly down to Allah.
    It cannot happen for everything though bro.

    What about all the wars the prophet muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH, fought in. He never just sat down and did dua. He went forth remembering ALLAH and then went into battle.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by .Hajar. View Post





    just quickly want to mention a case our teacher shared with us from the time of 'umar radiallahu 'anhu, where he suspended the hadd punishment for theft during a period of famine on the basis of al maslahah al mursalah [unrestricted public interest]

    so it's not as clear cut as some may think, we should be careful of what we say on this particular topic..

    Umar did so because he was doubtful about those who were accused of stealing and that's why the hadd punishment was suspended.

    Just think about it, how could he suspend a punishment decreed by Allah? It's completely unrealistic for him to decide over a ruling created by Allah.


    Did ‘Umar call for a moratorium?

    The question in fact should be: Does ‘Umar have the right to call for a moratorium on any aspect of Shariah? Does the Prophet have the right to place a moratorium? When one glances at the Prophetic narrations with respect to the application of Hudud amongst the early Muslims, it becomes clear that the right of legislation was exclusively maintained for Allah alone, and why would it be otherwise, when that is considered the twin-half of faith? To quote one example, once a companion caught a thief and brought him to the Prophet. When the Prophet ordered the Hadd of theft to be applied to him, the companion pitied the thief and decided to forgive him, but the Prophet in response rebuked the companion for not pardoning the thief before he came to him, for when a case reaches the ruler, then there is no alternative but the application of the Hadd punishment. The Prophetic traditions tell us of incidents where the Prophet would intercede on behalf of the murderer with the victim’s family to spare the murderer from the act of retribution (Qisas), but never did he have the right to prevent any family from demanding and carrying out retribution, and this is in spite of him being the Messenger of Allah. Therefore, if even the Prophet himself did not have the right to call for the suspension of the Hudud, how can anyone besides him be given that right? For the same reason, how can it be thought of a righteous Caliph like ‘Umar to call for a cessation of the Hudud for which he has no authority?

    Nevertheless, the secularists often cite the incident when ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second righteous Caliph, supposedly suspended the punishment for stealing in the year of famine. They claim that since theft became so rampant at that time that Caliph Umar saw it befitting to lift the Hadd punishment on stealing altogether, as opposed to leaving half of the nation amputees.

    In response, we can confidently say that ‘Umar’s moratorium on the Hadd punishment for stealing is no more than a myth, for the incident clearly states that when the crime was reported to ‘Umar, he ordered that the thieves’ hands be cut – in the very year of the famine – and he only revoked his order upon seeing the thieves in a state of starvation. Hence, ‘Umar only applied the principle of ‘avoiding Hudud punishments due to the doubt factor’, very much in line with ‘the letter’ as reported from the Prophet: ‘avoid the Hudud in doubtful cases’. For this reason, if a woman steals from her husband’s wealth, since a portion of the man’s wealth is meant for his wife, the Hadd punishment is not applied to her, due to doubt, without the need for such a call. Therefore, ‘Umar did not shift any boundaries; rather he carried out the trust bequeathed to him by his two predecessors, the Prophet and Abu Bakr with a full sense of responsibility.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    Whatever happened to steadfastness?
    we are not all equal before trials. Some will fail, some will resist, some will fall into haram, others will bear it with patience. We dont have all the same psychology or strength. The important is to come back to Allah ta'ala
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by nousername View Post
    you are really getting into symantics. Eating haram and stealing are both haram. But there is a time when it is allowed, but disliked.
    If the stealing involved murdering the ''enemy'' in order to survive then? There's no limits to how a person can transgress because he was 'forced to'' if we take your interpretation of the ayah.

    Just note Ibn Kathir said, if that is the only thing that could be found, then sure, eat it.

    But stealing is a whole different game.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by firestar101 View Post
    I agree. Did the prophet Muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him not resort to eating leaves and so did the companions. That is what the people of syria are going through, in that they are having to eat leaves and grass to survive.

    But remember bro, each person is different. A lot of people will steal to help their famalies. When you have children at home starving, then a lot of things go through your mind and your thinking may not be rational. May ALLAH forgive them if they do steal.

    I know if I was in their position I might do the same thing and many people here would also probably. It is easy to judhe when sitting behind a computer screen in what many would consider luxury.
    But then why does Allah say in the Qur'an that he does not test a person more than they can bear?
    Why does Allah say time and time again, to deal with it patiently, and seek his assistance?

    Again, people keep talking about the luxuries I have. Who gave them to me? Allah did.

    Yes I am judging. I am judging by what I know of Islam. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. At the same time, you're judging my intention.


    Quote Originally Posted by nousername View Post
    the people of syria are resorting to eating cats, dogs and donkeys. They are normally haram.

    Undignified.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by firestar101 View Post
    It cannot happen for everything though bro.

    What about all the wars the prophet muhammad may the peace and blessings of ALLAH, fought in. He never just sat down and did dua. He went forth remembering ALLAH and then went into battle.
    Yes he did. But he wasn't a 1 man army. Allah helped him throughout. He opened the hearts of people, to join his message. Du'a did work throughout.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Massilia View Post
    we are not all equal before trials. Some will fail, some will resist, some will fall into haram, others will bear it with patience. We dont have all the same psychology or strength. The important is to come back to Allah ta'ala
    Of course not, and that's why we're all trialled to our capabilities. Precisely what the Qur'an says about Allah not testing us more than we can bear.

    Some will fall. Then that's their fault in all honesty.


    You're making it out that all trials to be one and the same.

    ''We are not all equal before trials... but not all trials are equal before us.''
    Last edited by Magic.; 11-11-13 at 11:45 PM.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    Evidence?
    during the famine times of umar ra rule, the penalty of cutting the hands for stealing was waived.

    If a human is starving or his children is dying then stealing although haram is not punished

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinobot View Post
    during the famine times of umar ra rule, the penalty of cutting the hands for stealing was waived.
    Nope.
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...=1#post5482494

    If a human is starving or his children is dying then stealing although haram is not punished
    I don't know.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    after hurrican katrina and sandy , the same happened in the US....

    so basically when theres no law , people will go out of control .




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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    you are saying this because the article you posted says so? even though the article itself provides insufficient evidence to back up its claim

    do you know what maslahah is? because if you understood, you wouldn't have said the the bolded bit..

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    Umar did so because he was doubtful about those who were accused of stealing and that's why the hadd punishment was suspended.

    Just think about it, how could he suspend a punishment decreed by Allah? It's completely unrealistic for him to decide over a ruling created by Allah.
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by noobz View Post
    after hurrican katrina and sandy , the same happened in the US....

    so basically when theres no law , people will go out of control .
    For a Muslim, when's there no fear of Allah is when you go out of control.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by .Hajar. View Post
    you are saying this because the article you posted says so? even though the article itself provides insufficient evidence to back up this claim

    do you know what maslahah is? because if you understood, you wouldn't have said the the bolded bit..
    Yes, you just said it referred to public interest. So basically from what I understand, Allah, when he created this law, didn't have public interest in mind?

    The article does say so and it amounts to as much evidence as you have.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by noobz View Post
    after hurrican katrina and sandy , the same happened in the US....

    so basically when theres no law , people will go out of control .
    I was thinking the same comparison.

    Some looted evacuated houses for treasure.

    Some looted evacuated markets for food and nappies.

    ~Bub
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    Of course not, and that's why we're all trialled to our capabilities. Precisely what the Qur'an says about Allah not testing us more than we can bear.

    Some will fall. Then that's their fault in all honesty.


    You're making it out that all trials to be one and the same.

    ''We are not all equal before trials... but not all trials are equal before us.''
    yes to our capabilities, we don't know our capabilities. We're talking here because everything or most of of the things are fine with us, but what would you really do in that state of mind? 10 000 dead around you, city wiped out like it is the end of the world and it is the end of their world, we can't say

    Personally I don't know, i may loot, i may be patient and wait for the best. I can't say because i have a roof on my head alhamdullilah. Who said you or I would not steal in case of dire need?
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    and that, brother, is a grave mistake on your part

    if you don't know what it means then why argue?

    your lack of knowledge is apparent in this thread, you're shooting down others opinions because it doesn't sit pretty with your understanding of islam- this is very wrong and a dangerous approach to implementing islam

    when you lack knowledge, and are well aware of it, the least you can do is shut up and not make a fool of yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    Yes, you just said it referred to public interest. So basically from what I understand, Allah, when he created this law, didn't have public interest in mind?

    The article does say so and it amounts to as much evidence as you have.
    by the way what i posted above is neither my personal opinion nor something i made out of thin air- it has islamic basis in it, scholars have written on it but it's futile discussing it with someone who doesn't even understand it
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by BubbleGum View Post
    I was thinking the same comparison.

    Some looted evacuated houses for treasure.

    Some looted evacuated markets for food and nappies.

    ~Bub
    and now u know why the same happens in Pakistan when lynching mobs kill people.




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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by .Hajar. View Post
    and that, brother, is a grave mistake on your part

    if you don't know what it means then why argue?

    your lack of knowledge is apparent in this thread, you're shooting down others opinions because it doesn't sit pretty with your understanding of islam- this is very wrong and a dangerous approach to implementing islam

    when you lack knowledge, and are well aware of it, the least you can do is shut up and not make a fool of yourself



    by the way what i posted above is neither my personal opinion nor something i made out of thin air- it has islamic basis in it, scholars have written on it but it's futile discussing it with someone who doesn't even understand it
    I never said I was Islam's expert.

    All I was discussing from what I know of & not shooting down anyone's opinion and if you felt that I had behaved rudely, then I apologise for that.

    A brother wrote that article. If you believe it to be insufficient, then you can show me how? I would like to increase my understanding.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    For goodness sake, some of you need to get off your high horses and realize that the world isn't black and white, and neither is Islam. If people are starving in the aftermath of a catastrophic typhoon and have no money, no possessions, let alone any comfortable income or shelter, then they should not be blamed for stealing if it's their only means of survival.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    I'm not berating. I was just curious. Quit judging.

    Now you say du'a does massive benefit. That's an option, surely?


    Why do I bother...

    I'm sorry I troubled you.

    Probably due to my incompetence, but I can't understand your question either.
    وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمۡ ءَامِنُواْ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلنَّاسُ قَالُوٓاْ أَنُؤۡمِنُ كَمَآ ءَامَنَ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ*ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّهُمۡ هُمُ ٱلسُّفَهَآءُ وَلَـٰكِن لَّا يَعۡلَمُونَ


    And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: Shall we believe as the foolish believe? Beware! They indeed are the foolish? But they know not.
    Al Baqarah : Verse 13

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    those that are sitting and judging whether the filippinos are right or wrong, in stealing in such a severe situation out there, It would have been far better, if these people put their hands in their pocket and given out 5 quid. However, those of us who have been blessed with all sorts of comforts, guess it makes judging and criticism becomes far easier for us.
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

  34. #73
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    I heard what all you have to say.

    It's a shame that you're just equally as judging my intention.

    Massilla made a good point though.

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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    I'm not berating. I was just curious. Quit judging.

    Now you say du'a does massive benefit. That's an option, surely?
    brother seems like your only here to start quarrel and mischief.. and try to make ourselves feel like we don't have an answer so you can feel the upperhand..

  36. #75
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by abdullah25 View Post
    brother seems like your only here to start quarrel and mischief.. and try to make ourselves feel like we don't have an answer so you can feel the upperhand..
    Swear by Allah, that wasn't my intention.

    If you don't have an answer then fair enough. Allah knows best.


    It's not me vs the Ummah.

  37. #76
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    salaam alaikum

    I have been through several hurricanes with my wife and children while living in Florida. One year, the power was out for 3 weeks, homes were destroyed by fallen trees, my own home was damaged. However.....

    The people of Florida had several days to prepare for the hurricanes. I recall lining up at the store for hours to buy batteries. In fact, the governor passed an order outlawing price fixing- artificially raising prices for petrol, water, etc.

    Why wasn't the Philipipines prepared in any sort of way?
    All those family members flying into the area to check on family, why didn't they send money BeFORE the typhoon to insure their families had supplies?

    Why is it people claim to be starving AFTER only one day?
    I read a town council member was going through the wreckage of his dead neighbor, looking for things. The reporter approached him and he said, oh, excuse me, I'm hungry. That was like a day or two later.

    Philippines experiences 20 typhoons a year, and this was reported the worst ever, why didn't people prepare themselves? Buy some extra supplies?
    Perhaps even borrow money for rich family members living abroad- lend me a months food supply and I'll pay you back in a year?
    Lend me money to build a storm shelter, or freezer, or generator and I'll pay you back later?

    How many days now since the storm? Already people are starving?
    Syria has been at war for 2 years, And the world is supposed to be sympathetic for the Philippines after a few days?
    Sometimes I go 10 hours without food or water and I'm not fasting. This Ramadan, 16+ hours without food and water. A human can go for up to 30 days without food before organ failure. He can go 4 days without water before organ failure and death.
    It's not been 4 days since the storm. In fact, there is water all over. Start a fire, boil water, even boil/condense saltwater, taking the condensation as pure water. Simple survival tactic for people near water, like the Philippine island nation.

    I read from a stupid British reporter that he saw people running from an electronics store with TVs, radios, etc. and he claimed they might be doing so to barter them for food!

    What a moron. People are looting. In America after a major hurricane or disaster, people looted. More so in the Phlippines where poverty is more rampant.

    The responsible parent prepares for a disaster, evacuating, or if not, sustaining supplies. Who goes into the worst typhoon in history, moving at only 40 kph with days, even a week to prepare, and does NOT prepare or plan for anything?

    And where was the government in leading people? They evacuated 100s of 1000s, but left 100s of 1000s? What is that plan?
    And a politician estimated 10,000 dead, however 2-3 days have passed and only 900 are reported dead. That's a big gap, the kind of gap used to invoke sympathy for incompetent corrupt political leadership of a poor, corrupt society, getting millions in donations.

    As I have said before, the Philippines are an enemy of a Islam and Muslims. Ignorant poor people have been misled into this disaster. They still follow their evil leaders. Where were these people when the government massacred 100 s of Muslim civilians in Moroland?
    Did they protest or condemn what their elected officials did?
    Or did they capitalize on it themselves, moving into Muslim lands to take their fertile property?
    Last edited by Abu Kamel; 12-11-13 at 09:43 PM.
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.

    Oh Allah, show me the Truth as Truth and enable me to follow it. And Oh Allah, show me falsehood as falsehood and enable me to stay away from it.

  38. #77
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Kamel View Post
    salaam alaikum

    I have been through several hurricanes with my wife and children while living in Florida. One year, the power was out for 3 weeks, homes were destroyed by fallen trees, my own home was damaged. However.....

    The people of Florida had several days to prepare for the hurricanes. I recall lining up at the store for hours to buy batteries. In fact, the governor passed an order outlawing price fixing- artificially raising prices for petrol, water, etc.

    Why wasn't the Philipipines prepared in any sort of way?
    All those family members flying into the area to check on family, why didn't they send money BeFORE the typhoon to insure their families had supplies?

    Why is it people claim to be starving AFTER only one day?
    I read a town council member was going through the wreckage of his dead neighbor, looking for things. The reporter approached him and he said, oh, excuse me, I'm hungry. That was like a day or two later.

    Philippines experiences 20 typhoons a year, and this was reported the worst ever, why didn't people prepare themselves? Buy some extra supplies?
    Perhaps even borrow money for rich family members living abroad- lend me a months food supply and I'll pay you back in a year?
    Lend me money to build a storm shelter, or freezer, or generator and I'll pay you back later?

    How many days now since the storm? Already people are starving?
    Syria has been at war for 2 years, And the world is supposed to be sympathetic for the Philippines after a few days?
    Sometimes I go 10 hours without food or water and I'm not fasting. This Ramadan, 16+ hours without food and water. A human can go for up to 30 days without food before organ failure. He can go 4 days without water before organ failure and death.
    It's not been 4 days since the storm. In fact, there is water all over. Start a fire, boil water, even boil/condense saltwater, taking the condensation as pure water. Simple survival tactic for people near water, like the Philippine island nation.

    I read from a stupid British reporter that he saw people running from an electronics store with TVs, radios, etc. and he claimed they might be doing so to barter them for food!

    What a moron. People are looting. In America after a major hurricane or disaster, people looted. More so in the Phlippines where poverty is more rampant.

    The responsible parent prepares for a disaster, evacuating, or if not, sustaining supplies. Who goes into the worst typhoon in history, moving at only 40 kph with days, even a week to prepare, and does NOT prepare or plan for anything?

    And where was the government in leading people? They evacuated 100s of 1000s, but left 100s of 1000s? What is that plan?
    And a politician estimated 10,000 dead, however 2-3 days have passed and only 900 are reported dead. That's a big gap, the kind of gap used to invoke sympathy for incompetent corrupt political leadership of a poor, corrupt society, getting millions in donations.

    As I have said before, the Philippines are an enemy of a Islam and Muslims. Ignorant poor people have been misled into this disaster. They still follow their evil leaders. Where were these people when the government massacred 100 s of Muslim civilians in Moroland?
    Did they protest or condemn what their elected officials did?
    Or did they capitalize on it themselves, moving into Muslim lands to take their fertile property?
    Where were we, the Muslims, when Muslim terrorists massacre innocents in the name of Islam? It's a two way thing. We either show no compassion, or indifference but as soon as Muslims are targeted in a massacre, there's an uproar from us. All human beings are equal.

  39. #78
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumanah View Post
    Where were we, the Muslims, when Muslim terrorists massacre innocents in the name of Islam? It's a two way thing. We either show no compassion, or indifference but as soon as Muslims are targeted in a massacre, there's an uproar from us. All human beings are equal.
    You are not a Muslim. Those who believe and those who disbelieve are not equal.

    There is an entire internet of secular humanist forums and so forth. Go amongst them, don't come to a Muslim forum and propagate your ideas
    Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.

    Oh Allah, show me the Truth as Truth and enable me to follow it. And Oh Allah, show me falsehood as falsehood and enable me to stay away from it.

  40. #79
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic. View Post
    They shouldn't do haram in finding the food.
    Easy to say when sat 10,000 miles away.

    In Shariah if a person steals in extreme circumstances he is not punished in the same way as a person who steals out of greed under normal circumstances.

    Shariah Law is complex not based one 1 ayat of Quran or 1 Hadith.

    There is no blanket "chop chop" when it comes to trying people accused of theft in a Shariah Court.

    Each case is heard individually, and each judgement has to be a proportional to the crime.

    A person who steals a Ferrarri Sports Car from a Showroom in London, and a person who steals a loaf of bread in Syria are not
    given the same punishment.

    This is BASIC shariah law, if you don't understand you need to study it, not litter the thread by repeatedly calling for harsh blanket punishment of desperate people
    while sitting 10,000 miles away.

    May Allah guide you, and guide me, ameen.

  41. #80
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    Re: So what happened in the Philippines, people are now stealing? Is that right in Is

    They are stealing food to feed their loved ones, its not like America where they were stealing laptops and televisions
    My ♥ only lets الله‎ in
    ‘O Allah, forgive me, have mercy upon me, guide me, give me health and grant me sustenance.’


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