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    Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    ARAB NEWS
    Friday 16 November 2012
    Last Update 16 November 2012 3:46 am
    MAKKAH: Preliminary work for the expansion of the mataf (the circumambulation area around the Kaaba) started yesterday with the installation of huge cranes at the northeastern courtyard of the Grand Mosque. The contractor undertaking the expansion has sought the evacuation of preachers’ offices in the mataf and the command office of the Haram Security forces close to Al-Safa Gate.
    The expansion is being undertaken on the basis of a study prepared by the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques Institute for Haj and Umrah Studies.
    The study focuses on using the available space and potential of the mataf to the maximum while maintaining the architectural features of the Grand Mosque using advanced technology.
    According to the study, the mataf will be separated from prayer areas and it will be linked to different floors of the mosque and facilitate entrance to and exit from the mataf. It will also takes care of the crowding at the entrances to the mataf and nearby passages and will also give direct access from the mataf to the masaa.
    The mataf on the second and third floors will have cable cars to carry aged and disabled pilgrims and there will be direct access to these floors from outside. The topmost floor of the mataf will have automated walkway revolving around the Kaaba.
    The study said the original mataf is a circle with a diameter of 95 meters.
    Currently the capacity of the mataf is 28,000 pilgrims in an hour or four persons in a square meter area, though at peak days it rises to 40,000 people or six people in a square meter in an hour.

    Muhammad Idris, who prepared the study, said the first Saudi expansion of the facility was undertaken 60 years ago and then roof was not made for prayers.
    He said factors such as the change in the level of ground water and impact of salt on the foundation and the shaking caused by the rock blasts for the nearby projects are affecting the mosque building’s strength.
    The study said many efforts have been made to strengthen the pillars of the building. The new project will also take steps to make the building tremor proof.
    Authorities have made it clear that the new works will not affect the upcoming Umrah season.

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    Odan Ismail Simjee's Avatar
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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Many thanks to you abuismaeel.

    Puts paid to the rumours. I had a musalli confront me day before yesterday after Esha in our masjid insisting that there will be no umra visas for next two years !!!

    I have maintained a consistent news feed on the start and end of umra season since past few years of having the prevelige of this forum's membership and the info on next season, from me, is still same.ie., system activates by 25 December and the first batch of mutamirs beginning their trip by or after 7 January InshaAllah.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    I feel emotional knowing madinah will also be a construction site when i go insha Allah

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    In my opinion the Authorities and by extension the custodian of the two holy mosques have done tremendous work in improving the infrastructure for the pilgrims, also I am glad that the council of ulema have put a stop to the proposed extension of masjidun nabawi which included moving the mimbar, they recommended another scope of works for the project and puts to rest some of the slanderous rumors that were circulating that the Saudi government was going to desecrate masjidun nabawi.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by abuismaeel View Post
    In my opinion the Authorities and by extension the custodian of the two holy mosques have done tremendous work in improving the infrastructure for the pilgrims, also I am glad that the council of ulema have put a stop to the proposed extension of masjidun nabawi which included moving the mimbar, they recommended another scope of works for the project and puts to rest some of the slanderous rumors that were circulating that the Saudi government was going to desecrate masjidun nabawi.
    It makes me sad to read about the proposed extension plan of the Masjid ul haram as it looks that we are going to Alton Towers for some sort of rides and not for any ibadah. Extension without any thoughtful planning and purpose will just ruin the spiritual aspect of the holy land. As regards Masjidi Nabvi there does not seem to be any need for that as even in Hajj season it is never fully occupied and there are always plenty of free spaces. Once again an extension for the sake of extension is completely unwarrante

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    Odan Ismail Simjee's Avatar
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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by rameezzafar View Post
    It makes me sad to read about the proposed extension plan of the Masjid ul haram as it looks that we are going to Alton Towers for some sort of rides and not for any ibadah. Extension without any thoughtful planning and purpose will just ruin the spiritual aspect of the holy land. As regards Masjidi Nabvi there does not seem to be any need for that as even in Hajj season it is never fully occupied and there are always plenty of free spaces. Once again an extension for the sake of extension is completely unwarrante
    A very high percentage of the Saudis in the civil and business sector are highly qualified. Almost all of the senior ministers have PhDs from western universitys and whatever development plans they are or have taken, at least since past 7 years or so, are well thought out with advance studies and researches.

    Their current ambitious plans are borne out of deep research undertaken by Ummul Qurra University and these guys are forward planning. Their scope for development is only restrained where the personal directions had been given by our Nabi-saw- which they cannot and will dare not supersede such as expansion of Mina and Arafah.

    For the two Harmeins, they practically can do what they like as long as that will permit more pilgrims to attend with considerable comfort and cost effectiveness.

    My grandfather, were he alive today, would have been awed by the current state as compared to what he personally witnessed during his haj in 1950's. I went in 1961 and what was then is nowhere in sight. Do I regret the development? Not the least except for this sickening clock tower hovering and towering above the Kaba and housing the filthy rich who would rather behold the Kaba from the comforts of their panaromic view than bother coming down amongst the crowd.

    Muslim population is on the increase and so is its affluence levels with more aspiring to visit His House. If the rulers of Saudi Arabia will sit back and do nothing to facilitate such aspirations than who would? Not Pakistan and certainly not Indonesia.

    Like it or not, consistent improvement is on the cards and have to be on the cards. Its a different matter whether luxury is imposed in place of convinience but than too it is because there are buyers of luxury out there, one reason for the likes of Raffles, Swiss hotel and Oberoi to exist and survive.

    We can leave the politics of where the mimbar in Madina should be sited to those in charge and also whether the chairlifts, before they are installed, are actually needed or not to the time when such equipment or mode of transport needed by the less able is actually being installed.

    The Saudis have so much resources they can actually, if they want, install moving platforms all the way to Arafah from the Haram passing through Mina and Muzdalifa, but, perhaps, it is a pipe dream for me? Or is it?

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Jazakum allahu khayran bro Ismail, I believe only the hujjaj who have seen the development over the years will know the benefits of these expansions, for those like brother Ismail who have made the hajj 15 years ago will see how easy the authorities have made it for us now, and with the expansions now, and the haramain rail projects it will only bring ease to the ever increasing pilgrim population. Remember that if god almighty have provided the Saudis with the resources to bring ease to the hujjaj then why would we prefer hardship.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by abuismaeel View Post
    Jazakum allahu khayran bro Ismail, I believe only the hujjaj who have seen the development over the years will know the benefits of these expansions, for those like brother Ismail who have made the hajj 15 years ago will see how easy the authorities have made it for us now, and with the expansions now, and the haramain rail projects it will only bring ease to the ever increasing pilgrim population. Remember that if god almighty have provided the Saudis with the resources to bring ease to the hujjaj then why would we prefer hardship.
    well said!

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    [QUOTE=Ismail Simjee;4935282]A




    My grandfather, were he alive today, would have been awed by the current state as compared to what he personally witnessed during his haj in 1950's. I went in 1961 and what was then is nowhere in sight. Do I regret the development? Not the least except for this sickening clock tower hovering and towering above the Kaba and housing the filthy rich who would rather behold the Kaba from the comforts of their panaromic view than bother coming down amongst the crowd.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ismail Simjee View Post
    For the two Harmeins, they practically can do what they like as long as that will permit more pilgrims to attend with considerable comfort and cost effectiveness.

    My grandfather, were he alive today, would have been awed by the current state as compared to what he personally witnessed during his haj in 1950's. I went in 1961 and what was then is nowhere in sight. Do I regret the development? Not the least except for this sickening clock tower hovering and towering above the Kaba and housing the filthy rich who would rather behold the Kaba from the comforts of their panaromic view than bother coming down amongst the crowd.


    Like it or not, consistent improvement is on the cards and have to be on the cards. Its a different matter whether luxury is imposed in place of convinience but than too it is because there are buyers of luxury out there, one reason for the likes of Raffles, Swiss hotel and Oberoi to exist and survive.

    Brother Ismail I would prefer people whether rich or poor to stay in the ugly clock tower than come down to Masjid e Haram if they have no respect for the House of Allah (SWT) What I saw during my hajj experience was completely shambolic. My wife who is a new muslim was so excited to go for hajj and prepared for four months for this spiritual journey has come back with more questions than answers.

    Hajj a spiritual journey was anything but spiritual.

    Our experience
    Masjid e Haram: 1, People spitting where ever they get a chance to spit ! how many people actually spit in their living room?
    2, For tawaf Roof for tawaf is empty but people want shove themselves to downstairs and elbow, push, punch and do every thing and Allah and His messenger forbid us to do while doing tawaf. It took people 40 mins to do tawaf and the courtyard and it took us 45 mins to perform tawaf on the roof!!
    3. people performing sai drinking zamzam and chucking the glasses where ever they can. Near every zamzam area it was a puddle of water and poor cleaner kept wiping the floor but couldnt catch up with the mess being created by the hajjis
    4. People taking shower with zamzam and creating extremely dangerous situation on the slippery marble floor
    5. Outside clearly marked and written in several languages Zamzam area for drinking only yet people filling cans
    6. Clearly marked women area for zamzam all occupied by men with no respect and women waiting and trying to squeeze in between men. Yet women should be protected from even being seen by non mahram.
    7. People eating outside the mosque and leaving all the empty boxes of take away on the floor as if the floor is a dustbin yet the Orange Bin is nearly empty
    8. Masjid e haram road (we should even respect the name) was an epic of filth! I have never seen such rubbish in my whole life. ( I know that every one will come and say that there are so many people so it will happen. But why cant people be bothered to put the rubbish in the bin. and why can not they carry a simple carrier bag to keep their rubbish with them just like they all had for their slippers.)

    Masjid e Nabwi:
    1. What is the point of being in the mosque when people can not respect, What is saw in Riaz ul Jannah was an utter disgrace. People standing their grounds not praying and not letting others pray either. Sitting and chatting. Half of riaz ul jannah was occupied with people who want to pray yet if those people make a queue outside riaz ul jannah that whole place could be used for salat. Pushing showing, people being thrown from one place or another. I cant can describe the whole senario in words.

    Mina / Muzdalifah / I can not even describe what I saw.

    Coming back to your comment for those rich people who have no respect and staying in the ugly clock tower. I agree with you that it is the worst building at the worst possible site. But it helps maintain and keep the Kaaba and Masjid e haram clean, tidy and if it keeps such people I mentioned above away from haram I will still prefer to have clock tower.

    We got so angry when some non muslims insulted our beloved prophet what do you have to say to all the above is this not an insult?

    No matter how much money saudis invest or any invest if muslims do not change their behavior it is not going to work.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    I could not agree more. Brother Ismail says Saudis have PhDs and are mostly trained abroad. Surely some of these qualified people would have designed and built this ugly clock tower. PhDs or no PhDs it is the financial lust behind all these projects. In the plain of uhad they are erecting an other building which will eventually change the landscape of this historical site for ever. Even the common sense will stop people from being so irrational yet no such sense prevails in the minds of these super rich Saudis.

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    Odan Ismail Simjee's Avatar
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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    InshaAllah I will try to respond to the post #9 by Dr Farhan and post #10 by Rameezzafar.

    There are three different topics in this particular thread. The OP. if I understood him correctly, is talking about the development/expansion of the mataf area of the Haram and trying to sooth the rumour making rounds that the next umra season will either be delayed, curtailed or cancelled altogether.

    Dr Farhan is talking about the behaviours of the pilgrims and Rameezzafar, if I understand him correctly, is talking about the super rich Saudis and the modernisation they seem to be implementing.

    Basically, my post (#6) deals with Rameezzafar responding to his earlier post and is equally applicable to his latest post. I repeat, the Saudis have every right to do what they like in their country and to the Harmains Sharifains for who are we to challenge them? The money being poured into the modernisation and easing of facilities of the two harmains is provided by the Saudis and is no loan from any other muslim countries or any lending agencies.

    Its irrelevant whether this money is a result of the black gold. It is Allah-SWT- Who Chooses how to Bestow His Bounty and upon Whom. Do you believe Pakistan would have sent aid to Saudi Arabia if it was Pakistan who had this black gold? I fear it would have ended up in personal accounts of the ruling class from Pakistan in the off shore and Swiss banks.

    My only disappointment with the development of Makkah is the ugly and monstrous structures that towers hundreds of meters above the House of Allah.

    Returning to Dr Farhan, I doubt very much whether it is the "filthy rich" dwellers of such super duper accommodation who create such mess or, indeed, elbow their way through the tawafs and sai or take shower at the zamzam drinking spots. What you and your wife saw is nothing new and exists and, I suspect, will continue to exist as long as us muslims who are so "Taharah" conscious but are downright in-considerate and filthy without care to health and hygeine will ever learn.

    The Saudis ( educated or not) have, by Dr Farhan's own description, placed sufficient equipment and labour in place to overcome such disgusting behaviours but it is a losing battle at peak times of the pilgrimage.

    Did you know that a very tiny percentage of the pilgrims for haj and umra are from the western countries. The complete annual total for the whole of Europe, Australia and Americas for Umra is less than the total from Bangladesh alone?

    Obviously, the bulk of the pilgrims originate from countries that have no such etiquette sense, understanding of hygeine - health and safety or for being considerate towards others be that old, infirm, disabled or women? Further, most of us westerners also become same as those from the under developed countries and behave equally as disgustingly as them Turks or Mid African nationals when we arrive there.

    Dr Farhan, you probably are fortunate not to have passed by mountainsides in Makkah 24 hours after the first rami of jamaraat was performed. Disgusting and sickening stench of dead animals is in the environment. These are the animals sacrificed by muslims who had bought them on the cheap and could not be bothered to ensure they are slaughtered in licensed or proper places, skinned and distributed to waiting takers. Our own muslim brothers and sisters arrange for sacrifice on the cheap and chuck the animals on the roadsides and mountains leaving them to rot and become potential for diseases..

    You are fortunate also that you went at a time where the Saudis have made considerable improvements in Arafah, Muzdalifa and Mina. Just five years earlier and you would have not been able to go anywhere secluded around these three sites for the secluded areas were "toileting" areas.

    In 1961, the only water supply source in Arafah was by Jabal Rehmah. Elsewhere, you carried your own water supply. The toiletingareas were simply 2 U shaped spots with a hole with the walls only 3 foot high. Just imagine, no water, no privacy !!!!

    As for us "conscious and educated westerners" you will witness the "jahiliyaahs" of them in Mina, Arafah and Muzdalifa when the time comes to get on the coaches. Year on the year I witness UK nationals ending in fisticuffs over the buses or a spot for a few hours in Muzdalifa. I am sorry, Dr Farhan, but that is the way it is. The shambles, chaos and aggressiveness of us "Allah Fearing" muslims towards each other. No wonder the kuffars can walk into any muslim country they like and slap them, beat them, burn them, rape them and still call that invasion as freeing us from tyranny. When I see Indian muslims behave the way they do I lose all sympathies for the being oppressed by the hindus. When I see Pakistanis behave the way they do I lose all sympathies for them. Similarly for the Afghans, the Palestinians and for the north African Arabs treatment in the hands of the French. I will try to post a photo I took this year at muzdalifa to show the indiscipline of us UK nationals.muzdalifah2012~2.jpg

    I can empathise with your wife raising questions. Questions that are honestly genuine and right and answers that we cannot provide with our hands on our hearts.

    Love them or loath them, the Saudis are the ones who own their country. We are not only Allah's Guests when we are fortunate to be "called" over for the pilgrimage but also guests of the Saudis.`

    I dont think it is fair to expect the Saudis to educate all visitors to their country. We simply have to bear with such oversights.
    Last edited by Ismail Simjee; 18-11-12 at 05:49 PM.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Ismail Simjee View Post
    I dont think it is fair to expect the Saudis to educate all visitors to their country. We simply have to bear with such oversights.
    So many people this Hajj in my group were slandering Saudis of all the problems, chaos, indiscipline, disregard towards others to name few and my answer was always what Uncle Simjee has said in his last line, how can you blame them if a person from thousands miles away from an other part of the world doesn't behave the way he should. It has to be taught back home what to do and what not to do and educate people at where they are. What has Saudi's got to do with people from all over the world behaving badly, it's not their duty to do so.

    Yes I blame Saudi's for this clock tower which I hate it as whenever you see a picture of Kabaa or even sitting in there or doing tawaf in the background you see this monster (absolutely hate it). Yes Saudi's can be blamed for not sorting out the bottle neck on the Safa Marwah side next to Palace where during Hajj days it gets so crowded and just kills the flow of people. They are improving /developing sites for the good of Hujjaj; Jamarat Bridge is an example. It's us Hujjaj who need to learn to use them and behave in an appropriate way. That has to come from their own country (seems impossible though)

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Ismail Simjee View Post
    InshaAllah I will try to respond to the post #9 by Dr Farhan and post #10 by Rameezzafar.

    There are three different topics in this particular thread. The OP. if I understood him correctly, is talking about the development/expansion of the mataf area of the Haram and trying to sooth the rumour making rounds that the next umra season will either be delayed, curtailed or cancelled altogether.

    Dr Farhan is talking about the behaviours of the pilgrims and Rameezzafar, if I understand him correctly, is talking about the super rich Saudis and the modernisation they seem to be implementing.

    Basically, my post (#6) deals with Rameezzafar responding to his earlier post and is equally applicable to his latest post. I repeat, the Saudis have every right to do what they like in their country and to the Harmains Sharifains for who are we to challenge them? The money being poured into the modernisation and easing of facilities of the two harmains is provided by the Saudis and is no loan from any other muslim countries or any lending agencies.

    Its irrelevant whether this money is a result of the black gold. It is Allah-SWT- Who Chooses how to Bestow His Bounty and upon Whom. Do you believe Pakistan would have sent aid to Saudi Arabia if it was Pakistan who had this black gold? I fear it would have ended up in personal accounts of the ruling class from Pakistan in the off shore and Swiss banks.

    My only disappointment with the development of Makkah is the ugly and monstrous structures that towers hundreds of meters above the House of Allah.

    Returning to Dr Farhan, I doubt very much whether it is the "filthy rich" dwellers of such super duper accommodation who create such mess or, indeed, elbow their way through the tawafs and sai or take shower at the zamzam drinking spots. What you and your wife saw is nothing new and exists and, I suspect, will continue to exist as long as us muslims who are so "Taharah" conscious but are downright in-considerate and filthy without care to health and hygeine will ever learn.

    The Saudis ( educated or not) have, by Dr Farhan's own description, placed sufficient equipment and labour in place to overcome such disgusting behaviours but it is a losing battle at peak times of the pilgrimage.

    Did you know that a very tiny percentage of the pilgrims for haj and umra are from the western countries. The complete annual total for the whole of Europe, Australia and Americas for Umra is less than the total from Bangladesh alone?

    Obviously, the bulk of the pilgrims originate from countries that have no such etiquette sense, understanding of hygeine - health and safety or for being considerate towards others be that old, infirm, disabled or women? Further, most of us westerners also become same as those from the under developed countries and behave equally as disgustingly as them Turks or Mid African nationals when we arrive there.

    Dr Farhan, you probably are fortunate not to have passed by mountainsides in Makkah 24 hours after the first rami of jamaraat was performed. Disgusting and sickening stench of dead animals is in the environment. These are the animals sacrificed by muslims who had bought them on the cheap and could not be bothered to ensure they are slaughtered in licensed or proper places, skinned and distributed to waiting takers. Our own muslim brothers and sisters arrange for sacrifice on the cheap and chuck the animals on the roadsides and mountains leaving them to rot and become potential for diseases..

    You are fortunate also that you went at a time where the Saudis have made considerable improvements in Arafah, Muzdalifa and Mina. Just five years earlier and you would have not been able to go anywhere secluded around these three sites for the secluded areas were "toileting" areas.

    In 1961, the only water supply source in Arafah was by Jabal Rehmah. Elsewhere, you carried your own water supply. The toiletingareas were simply 2 U shaped spots with a hole with the walls only 3 foot high. Just imagine, no water, no privacy !!!!

    As for us "conscious and educated westerners" you will witness the "jahiliyaahs" of them in Mina, Arafah and Muzdalifa when the time comes to get on the coaches. Year on the year I witness UK nationals ending in fisticuffs over the buses or a spot for a few hours in Muzdalifa. I am sorry, Dr Farhan, but that is the way it is. The shambles, chaos and aggressiveness of us "Allah Fearing" muslims towards each other. No wonder the kuffars can walk into any muslim country they like and slap them, beat them, burn them, rape them and still call that invasion as freeing us from tyranny. When I see Indian muslims behave the way they do I lose all sympathies for the being oppressed by the hindus. When I see Pakistanis behave the way they do I lose all sympathies for them. Similarly for the Afghans, the Palestinians and for the north African Arabs treatment in the hands of the French. I will try to post a photo I took this year at muzdalifa to show the indiscipline of us UK nationals.muzdalifah2012~2.jpg

    I can empathise with your wife raising questions. Questions that are honestly genuine and right and answers that we cannot provide with our hands on our hearts.

    Love them or loath them, the Saudis are the ones who own their country. We are not only Allah's Guests when we are fortunate to be "called" over for the pilgrimage but also guests of the Saudis.`

    I dont think it is fair to expect the Saudis to educate all visitors to their country. We simply have to bear with such oversights.
    Well explained. Before I went this year, I was used to hearing people talk badly about the Saudi Authorities. But whilst I was actually there and saw the crazy people the police have to put up with and the way they dealt with them was surprising. I think they handled the challenges very well, not once did I see a security guard/police lose his temper at anyone. I can't say I'd do the same if I was in their shoes.

    Also the hospitable nature of authorities was impressive; when stopping at mu'allim from Jeddah to Makkah and then Madina to Makkah. We were given water, drinks and snacks every time we stopped.

    On our first day in Mina, my friend wanted to meet his relatives who came from the US. Armed with only a tent number, we walked vaguely in one direction until we came to a information point where we decided to ask the scouts for directions. I only know broken Arabic, nonetheless the scouts took us to their desk where they used a computer to pinpoint the tent, they then marked its location on a map, drew the route we had to take and handed the map to us through which we were successfully able to locate my friend's relatives.

    On another occasion this friend of mine got lost in Mina late night whilst coming back from our hotel in Azizia. At the time he was with his mother who was in a wheelchair and his wife who was pregnant. He came accross the scouts and they gave his wife a wheelchair and they took over from pushing his mother's wheelchair for him. The two scouts then pushed his wife's wheelchair and his mother's wheelchair all the way back to our camp in Mina.

    Before the days of hajj, I used to try and do nafil tawaafs mainly in the morning before zuhr in the as the mataaf tended to be quite empty. During these times, on numerous occasions I came accross strangers handing out water to those performing tawaaf.

    IMO yes, there are crazy people who do crazy things but at the same times when you witness the acts of deeds that I've just mentioned from strangers it does make you think that all hope in humanity is not lost...yet.

    People had to carry their own water supply for Arafat in 1961? Wow. This year we were given ice creams during the wuqoof of Arafat!

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    I also agree that the Saudis take unnecessary bashing from some pilgrims. Most definitely the clock tower seems to take away from the grandeur of the kabba shareef, but for me since I know the status of the Kabbah in my heart, and as such all,Muslims should also know, they could build twin gold towers with diamonds and it couldn't bother me much, ironically the tower is seen from miles out on your way from Jeddah to Makkah, but when you look at pics from the sky or space, all is seen is that one spot in the center, the Kabbah.

    I understand the concerns about the cleanliness of the haramain and their surroundings, but we need to understand what it realy means to accommodate 3.5 million people of different cultures and upbringings. So many of these people have never used a conventional toilet in their lives, things that seem so taboo to us are normal to them. The Saudis have so many cleaners and workers trying to keep the place clean especially in the masjid itself, but to maintain it in a way that some might expect might mean adding a next million workers to the mix.
    What we need is for our ummah to educate themself on basic etiquette of our day to day life, and I realy can't see how the Saudis are to blame if the hujjaj are ignorant to these Adaabs.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by abuismaeel View Post
    I also agree that the Saudis take unnecessary bashing from some pilgrims. Most definitely the clock tower seems to take away from the grandeur of the kabba shareef, but for me since I know the status of the Kabbah in my heart, and as such all,Muslims should also know, they could build twin gold towers with diamonds and it couldn't bother me much, ironically the tower is seen from miles out on your way from Jeddah to Makkah, but when you look at pics from the sky or space, all is seen is that one spot in the center, the Kabbah.

    I understand the concerns about the cleanliness of the haramain and their surroundings, but we need to understand what it realy means to accommodate 3.5 million people of different cultures and upbringings. So many of these people have never used a conventional toilet in their lives, things that seem so taboo to us are normal to them. The Saudis have so many cleaners and workers trying to keep the place clean especially in the masjid itself, but to maintain it in a way that some might expect might mean adding a next million workers to the mix.
    What we need is for our ummah to educate themself on basic etiquette of our day to day life, and I realy can't see how the Saudis are to blame if the hujjaj are ignorant to these Adaabs.
    Jazakallah brother you have hit the nail on the head " Different Culture" It is this different culture mentality that has led to such lows just like we had different tribes before Prophet (PBUH) There should be only one culture that is culture based on islamic values. We are or supposed to be one UMMAH! One does not have to be either rich or poor to learn the basic principles of islam. Cleanliness has got nothing to do with culture it is simply half of our deen! Similarly: No muslim shall enter paradise if his neighbour is not safe from his evils ( not exact translation) During Hajj all 4 million people are our neighbour.
    But nothing is going to improve if we are not going to do anything except talking or writing. I shall do my bit may Allah give me strength and determination to do it and I shall request others to do theirs.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    One of my hajj guides last year gave an inspirational talk in Mina.

    She said, that imagine that your home country becomes flooded with millions of visitors. Visitors, that cause a crazy hike up in the prices of food, drink, accommodation, transportation etc

    Visitors who cause thousands of pounds of damage in your country every year. Visitors who come and litter/spit in excess in your beloved city.

    Visitors who make it difficult to do basic things such as catch a taxi, bus or get some milk from the local shop cos there's millions of them who are causing queues and large crowds where you or your elderly mother/young children or wife are unintentionally harmed because of....

    This is year in, year out every single year.

    She said, this is what the Makkans have had to put up with for over 1400 years...so is it really a big deal, when some of them lose their patience sometimes with the Haji's

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by docfarhan View Post
    Jazakallah brother you have hit the nail on the head " Different Culture" It is this different culture mentality that has led to such lows just like we had different tribes before Prophet (PBUH) There should be only one culture that is culture based on islamic values. We are or supposed to be one UMMAH! One does not have to be either rich or poor to learn the basic principles of islam. Cleanliness has got nothing to do with culture it is simply half of our deen! Similarly: No muslim shall enter paradise if his neighbour is not safe from his evils ( not exact translation) During Hajj all 4 million people are our neighbour.
    But nothing is going to improve if we are not going to do anything except talking or writing. I shall do my bit may Allah give me strength and determination to do it and I shall request others to do theirs.
    To make Dawa includes, amongst the teaching of Islam and call to Islam, the basic tenets of our Deen. Our Nabi -saw-was role model for everything that is a muslim and represent Islam.

    Hence, we start the conveyance of the message with the need to respect others and to be considerate of the environment we both create and go and share. Charity begins at home and the educating does too, of the aspiring pilgrims, about to embark upon a journey of great importance that should result in the change of their life style.

    Alas, wishing for one culture is rather far fetched when we cannot even agree on a muslim solidairity and of one ummah with one Khaleef. Unison, therefore, will remain wishful thinking as long as we let our enemies drive the wedge amongst us and keep us fragmented. Culture, in this case and lkelihood, will never ever be one given the vast number of ethnicity amongst muslims and the divisions therein.

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    Re: Work in Masjidul Haram 2013

    The Construction Work Has Started And The Mussallas Are Out On The Mataaf.


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