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    Female Concubines



    I've always been really confused about the concept of concubines and slavery in Islam...could somebody please explain this to me. The whole concept of being able to have a female slave and then being able to have sex with her (which I doubt is consensual) doesn't really make any sense to me.

    I've also been asked this by non muslims as well and it's a little embarrassing to have aspects of my religion that I don't understand and can't explain or rationalize. This ends up giving me doubt and as I have only recently began to become more religious I don't want this to affect my imaan.


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    Re: Female Concubines

    ---
    Last edited by Umar Khattab; 31-08-12 at 02:48 AM.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by Umar Khattab View Post
    Brother, Islam didn't begin slavery, slavery already existed,

    A very rewarding act which Abu Bakr (ra) would do is buy slaves in order to free them e.g. how he freed Bilal (ra) from slavery.

    Also Islam does allow slavery, but Islam gave slaves many many rights, and like I say, many of the companions would free slaves as it is a very rewarding act, i.e. to free a slave.

    Abul Ala Maududi reports that Muhammad (saw) freed as many as 63 slaves.

    Meer Ismail, a medieval historian, writes in Buloogh al Muram that his household and friends freed 39,237 slaves [wikipedia]

    (I'm not very knowledgable about the subject, maybe because I don't have any slaves or know anyone that does, and haven't really studied it in great depth,
    but I must say for you not to feel embarassed about your religion, it is a beautiful religion)


    But brother I already know that islam gave many rights to slaves and the reward of freeing a slave is immense (which I think the wisdom behind it was to eradicate slavery over time), my issue is not so much with slavery but with concubines. I don't understand why muslim men are allowed concubines I can't imagine this being consensual and it seems almost like rape in my eyes.

    Also I am not ashamed/embarrassed of my religion I'm ashamed and embarrassed of not understanding it and not being able to defend it and allowing others to give me doubt as well as letting them continue to have these bad opinions of islam.

    (also I am not a brother I am a sister).

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    Re: Female Concubines

    We no longer have slaves, and it is clear from the various rulings on giving up a number of slaves as expiation for certain sins that the intent was (as well as 'payback' for the sin itself) to eradicate slavery altogether from the early years of Islam.

    In older times, women were indeed taken as slaves to begin with, and of these a number of them might be freed and taken as wives by Muslim men. The wanton rape of slaves was outlawed, though, and it was upon the owner to treat them kindly and steer them towards accepting Islam (presumably to prepare them for being freed and taken as a second or subsequent wife, or freed and married to another). In some areas (although I have no proof to support the 'legality' of it under Islamic law) such as Turkey, certain women were selected for exceptional qualities and trained as concubines for the owner's sexual pleasure.

    This is entirely in keeping with Islamic values, though, in that the women taken as slaves would be from defeated armies or nations and thus would have little to no means of supporting themselves and it was a far better thing they be taken as slaves and treated with kindness than left to their own devices and fall into sinful ways just to live from day to day. The owner, even when faced with a slave who would not accept Islam, was still obligated to treat her well and not abuse her.

    As I understand it (again I do not have a proof for this, so anyone who has knowledge please help out here) the CONCEPT of concubinage is still halal in Islamic law, but the PRACTICE of it is no longer followed.
    Last edited by John Muhammad; 31-08-12 at 03:25 AM.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    See what I don't understand is how does having a concubine keep with Islamic values? Slaves who so happen to be female is one thing but the whole idea of having a concubine is to have a female slave that will satisfy your sexual desires. This is a demeaning position to be put into as a woman, it does not matter any rights you might have a slave they are still not like the rights a wife would have on her husband. So why is there intimacy allowed between a man and his female slave?

    Also there is a difference between muta and concubines no man can force you into a temporary marriage (although like you mentioned earlier the validity of these temporary marriages are disputed amongst muslims), if a master approaches his slave for sexual purposes does the slave have the option of saying no?

    Also I believe that the Quran from the time it was revealed til the day of judgement is applicable. Just because nobody has had a reason (no major wars between muslims and kufar in which muslims have won) in this present moment does not mean that there won't be and the option of slavery and concubinage will be available.

    for your post though.
    Last edited by Qreus; 31-08-12 at 03:08 AM.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by John Muhammad View Post
    As I understand it (again I do not have a proof for this, so anyone who has knowledge please help out here) the CONCEPT of concubinage is still halal in Islamic law, but the PRACTICE of it is no longer followed, other than the limited muta' type of Shi'a practice.
    This is nothing to do with mutah, which is a form of marriage not slavery.
    But otherwise partially correct, in that it is rarely practiced, not not practiced at all today and have been instances under the taliban of some of the ismailis taken as slaves.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by Qreus View Post
    See what I don't understand is how does having a concubine keep with Islamic values? Slaves who so happen to be female is one thing but the whole idea of having a concubine is to have a female slave that will satisfy your sexual desires. This is a demeaning position to be put into as a woman, it does not matter any rights you might have a slave they are still not like the rights a wife would have on her husband. So why is there intimacy allowed between a man and his female slave?

    Also there is a difference between muta and concubines no man can force you into a temporary marriage (although like you mentioned earlier the validity of these temporary marriages are disputed amongst muslims), if a master approaches his slave for sexual purposes does the slave have the option of saying no?

    Also I believe that the Quran is from the time it was revealed til the day of judgement is applicable. Just because nobody has had a reason (no major wars between muslims and kufar in which muslims have won) in this present moment does not mean that there won't be and the option of slavery and concubinage will be available.

    for your post though.

    It is a slippery topic- that much is understood- and one that is better addressed by someone more scholarly then myself.

    Until an appropriate answer can be given for this, it is my personal opinion to simply avoid this type of subject when speaking with the kuffar. You are learning (or re-learning) your faith and nobody expects you to know everything all at once. Believe me, it's far better to say "I don't know" than rattle off something that might be completely untrue. (At that point, it's on you to find the correct answers and settle the questions, as you're doing now.) Just don't ever let non-Muslims throw you off the path; for someone who doesn't know all of Islam it's easy to trip them up on details and concepts we're not clear on in the beginning. Concubines and slavery are details and footnotes in history that can be learned later; best to concentrate now on the basics of perfecting your worship and improving your deen.

    Stand fast, hold the line, stay the course, and don't let anyone mess with your imaan

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by abu saalehah View Post
    This is nothing to do with mutah, which is a form of marriage not slavery.
    But otherwise partially correct, in that it is rarely practiced, not not practiced at all today and have been instances under the taliban of some of the ismailis taken as slaves.
    My meaning was a reflection of the first line of my post, in which I noted the only thing comparable to concubinage today is muta', and I noted that it is indeed a form of marriage (as opposed to slavery). Forgive me if my wording on this was misleading; it was not intentional. I have amended my post on this to remove the entire reference to muta'- thank you for bringing it to my attention !
    Last edited by John Muhammad; 31-08-12 at 03:26 AM.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by John Muhammad View Post
    It is a slippery topic- that much is understood- and one that is better addressed by someone more scholarly then myself.

    Until an appropriate answer can be given for this, it is my personal opinion to simply avoid this type of subject when speaking with the kuffar. You are learning (or re-learning) your faith and nobody expects you to know everything all at once. Believe me, it's far better to say "I don't know" than rattle off something that might be completely untrue. (At that point, it's on you to find the correct answers and settle the questions, as you're doing now.) Just don't ever let non-Muslims throw you off the path; for someone who doesn't know all of Islam it's easy to trip them up on details and concepts we're not clear on in the beginning. Concubines and slavery are details and footnotes in history that can be learned later; best to concentrate now on the basics of perfecting your worship and improving your deen.

    Stand fast, hold the line, stay the course, and don't let anyone mess with your imaan
    Honestly concubinage was something that seriously bugged me about a year ago when my imaan was at an all time low. I was on vacation with my family in Kenya and my mother decided to have me learn more about islam while I was the there and the interpretation that the sheikhs had completely turned me off, every question I asked was shut down and I was made to feel like I was an apostate just because I wanted explanations (I'm not a native arabic speaker so just making me memorize ayahs from the quran will not magically turn me into a better muslim). So I turned away from islam and unfortunately (and may allah forgive me for this) wanted nothing to do with it and my culture. Alhumdullah, I had a wake up call this summer as did my mom and we're both educating ourselves about islam in the correct way but this is still something that sort of tugs at me in the back of my mind. Of course I will not question the wisdom of Allah (swt) for allowing this but I just want to understand.

    I don't think it's a crime to want to understand...

    Also I feel it is my duty as a muslim to be educated enough so that when somebody like myself asks a question I can correctly answer it. Can you imagine being surrounded by people who just said "I don't know" when it comes to the quran. That is a terrible practice that muslims have and it irritates me so much. Most my elders are hafizs (and the ones who aren't are pretty darn close) and you ask them the meaning and they don't know! So if they don't know...who will teach the children?

    Sorry for the rant .. <<

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    Re: Female Concubines

    If a person genuinely doesn't know an answer, then maybe it would be better for them to simply say "I don't know", I wouldn't call that a terrible practice ...


    Also have you read this thread - http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...Misconceptions
    Last edited by Umar Khattab; 31-08-12 at 03:44 AM.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    No need to apologize; we all want to have all the answers at our fingertips. We're just not built to house all that knowledge all at once, though, so it's up to us to pick it one piece at a time and apply it and move on to the next.

    Your thirst for this knowledge is commendable, though, and insha'Allah you will learn all you desire to know. Just not all at once !

    Don't get discouraged, by any means, and don't let some people's gruff answers or comments throw you off. If one person can't give you a factual answer, just move on to someone else who can. Just be aware, too, not to keep looking until someone gives you the answer you *want*- you want the answer that is *correct*.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    I think it is a bad practice when you don't seek the knowledge and let doubt grow in the minds of your children especially if you are raising them amongst non muslims, a lot of the people I grew up with who were born into muslim households lead double lives, treat islam like their culture as though it is something they can discard once they get older and leave the house. Or they end up resenting it altogether and pull an Ayaan Hirsi Ali where they claim they are atheists and disavow the religion altogether. It could have all been avoided if they had been sufficiently taught and not just forced to memorize the quran in a language they do not on weekends when they were younger.

    And I did read the thread and the links provided and I found a few parts that just didn't sit well with me.

    It seems clear from Research that Women would beautify themselves before battle for either of two realities they would have to face;

    1) to Support their Men and ‘Cheer them on’.
    2) If their men lost – they would be beautiful and therefore valuable and Expensive for the one who caught her.
    So women are now cattle to be caught? The more beautiful the better the price? This is reminiscent to the West African slave trade where the best looking slaves fetched the highest price so slave traders would oil them up to make them look as attractive as possible.

    Again my issue is not with the practice of slavery in itself I know slavery as an islamic concept is completely different to the slavery that was practiced by non muslims in the West African slave trade. But why go to a woman who is not your wife for sexual intimacy? Would it not be better to free and then marry that woman if you desired her I don't understand why that is halal? Because if the goal is to at some point eradicate slavery in society why give men the option of an endless supply of booty? That would not be a great motivator for freeing her as a slave..in fact it would be more likely that a man would collect multiple female slaves to have a "harem" and then say "well it's not haram!"
    Last edited by Qreus; 31-08-12 at 04:07 AM.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by John Muhammad View Post
    Just be aware, too, not to keep looking until someone gives you the answer you *want*- you want the answer that is *correct*.
    for the uplifting post brother, it means a lot to me that other people also want to seek knowledge and are not content to just blindly following other people.

    And I completely agree, if I wanted a watered down islam that let me do whatever I wanted I'd go off and follow Irshad Manji

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

    Islam Slavery - Islam-Slavery.blogspot.com


    A new blog responding to common doubts Muslims have about slavery.



    Extract:


    Women Slavery: Slavery in Rape, Expulsion, or Prison

    A nation who faces war, their men will be killed [in the war], and their women will go through either of these 3 circumstances;
    1 – Imprisonment - because she was part of her people who were at war with the Victor. (she will most likely be raped in prison, and this happens even in the modern world. [search Abu Ghraib prison if in doubt.)

    2 - Exhile - because the defeated peoples property has all been taken by the enemy. (so she will have to run to another land, where she will probably also face harm and probably rape . And she will not have a male provider. [if in doubt - study the effects of the Iraq war on Muslim women. (many have had to become prostitutes to USA soldiers or contractors or men from other lands! because their men have been killed)

    3 - Being a Concubine - this is the best practical solution. She has a Believing male provider , she has similar rights to a wife. She learns about Islam from the Muslims in an Islamic society. She soon earns her freedom [see Um al Walad ]. And the male who is Responsible over her may even; teach her, free her and marry her (since that is twice-fold rewardable for him – as stated in the Qur’an and Ahadith [see surah Nur 24:32 ) [Sahih al Bukhari Vol1,Book3 (Knowledge),#97]



    Women Slavery - Conclusion:
    1 – Islam provides a positive, Practical and helpful solution to Women who lose their men in war.

    2 – Slave women have similar rights to Wives.
    3 – Slave women are not allowed to be Raped because they are our ‘sisters’ in faith or a trust we are responsible over, – they have one man who they are associated with, a relationship which society recognises. This relationship is based on mercy and love.
    4 – A Slave woman has different means by which she can find freedom.
    5 – There is no limit to how much slaves someone can have – since that will only increase the probability of more slaves being freed in the near future.
    6 – Teaching, Freeing and Marrying a slave brings a great deal of reward – hence, Believers’ will strive hard to buy and free, and marry slaves.



    Read the other posts
    :




    http://Islam-Slavery.blogspot.com

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    Re: Female Concubines




    Indeed, many people will be worried about this subject when we are born in this world.Where the word slavery means rude and oppressed behavior.However, this is slavery is indeed rude and oppressed condition I do not deny it.Before when Islam came down, there was jahiliyah known to the people.They used to have slaves and their children were slaves as well.There was an arabic poet, he was born to his being her mother's master.But he does not have the right to call him father.And he is again slave rather a free man.

    Islam was practiced by the pious prophets of Allah.An example of it is Syedinna Ibrahim may peace be upon him and his wife Bibi hajar the mother of Arabs.It was when syedinna ibrahim may peace be upon him and his wife Sarah were traveling.A tyrant king gifted her the slave ( Hajar ) who later gave birth to child Syedinna Ismail may peace be upon him.Thus it is widly known that Syedinna Ibrahim may peace be upon him has two wives.One is Sarah and the other is Hajar.For she gave birth to Syedinna Ismail may peace be upon him.

    You may find this in scripture of jewish and christianity as well.Thus, consider the example of Syedinna Ali radiallah anhu.Who later gave up all the richness to the poor, he used to work.Then free one slave a week by buying it and freeing it.Thereby, Islam removed the slavery rather than making it prevalent and spoiling the life.Another example is widely known of Syedinna Bilal radiallah anhu, he was a slave before accepting Islam.He used to wear the same clothes as what syedinna rasulallah salellahualaihiwasalam used wear and was the person who would give Adhan ( a call Salah).
    صلى الله على حبيبه محمد و على آله و أصحابه و سلم
    Al-Muslimeen

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    Re: Female Concubines

    What is there to understand? It is made Halah by Allah(SWT) and they fall under what the right hand posses.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by Qreus View Post
    See what I don't understand is how does having a concubine keep with Islamic values? Slaves who so happen to be female is one thing but the whole idea of having a concubine is to have a female slave that will satisfy your sexual desires. This is a demeaning position to be put into as a woman, it does not matter any rights you might have a slave they are still not like the rights a wife would have on her husband. So why is there intimacy allowed between a man and his female slave?

    Also there is a difference between muta and concubines no man can force you into a temporary marriage (although like you mentioned earlier the validity of these temporary marriages are disputed amongst muslims), if a master approaches his slave for sexual purposes does the slave have the option of saying no?

    Also I believe that the Quran from the time it was revealed til the day of judgement is applicable. Just because nobody has had a reason (no major wars between muslims and kufar in which muslims have won) in this present moment does not mean that there won't be and the option of slavery and concubinage will be available.

    for your post though.
    If an unbeliever is gonna hate, they will do so regardless of your answer.

    But I do agree that you should seek knowledge in any case.

    The issue of concubinage was relevant to the times when women were used to having little or no rights; to the pre-islam arabs they were seen as animals, as chattels.

    Then Islam came and gave women rights that did not exist for them but even then, it didn't turn the women into different beings overnight and there were certain elements that couldn't be changed completely as people of those times would not be able to deal with it.

    So, if you were a woman in those days it was nearly impossible to survive without a man taking care of your food and shelter needs. You couldn't even travel without a man as it was so dangerous for a woman to be alone therefore it was preferable to be a slave rather than an abandoned woman.

    In that era, slavery and concubinage was a means of sheltering and protecting the poor and vulnerable. It was halal to sleep with female slaves perhaps because the men of those times would find it impossible to control themselves.

    Allah is merciful and as our creator knows what we can and can't cope with.

    I don't think it would work today in some cultures as women may be more inclined to take up arms themselves rather than be taken as slaves, in the same way as marriage to nine years old won't work today as children have changed and mature later.

    *waits to be called a modernist, a kaffir, a FEMI-NAZI...*

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by Qreus View Post


    I've always been really confused about the concept of concubines and slavery in Islam...could somebody please explain this to me. The whole concept of being able to have a female slave and then being able to have sex with her (which I doubt is consensual) doesn't really make any sense to me.

    I've also been asked this by non muslims as well and it's a little embarrassing to have aspects of my religion that I don't understand and can't explain or rationalize. This ends up giving me doubt and as I have only recently began to become more religious I don't want this to affect my imaan.

    Do you know anyone or of anyone with slaves?

    Are you aware how slaves are obtained ?

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by flashnazia View Post
    If an unbeliever is gonna hate, they will do so regardless of your answer.

    But I do agree that you should seek knowledge in any case.

    The issue of concubinage was relevant to the times when women were used to having little or no rights; to the pre-islam arabs they were seen as animals, as chattels.

    Then Islam came and gave women rights that did not exist for them but even then, it didn't turn the women into different beings overnight and there were certain elements that couldn't be changed completely as people of those times would not be able to deal with it.

    So, if you were a woman in those days it was nearly impossible to survive without a man taking care of your food and shelter needs. You couldn't even travel without a man as it was so dangerous for a woman to be alone therefore it was preferable to be a slave rather than an abandoned woman.

    In that era, slavery and concubinage was a means of sheltering and protecting the poor and vulnerable. It was halal to sleep with female slaves perhaps because the men of those times would find it impossible to control themselves.

    Allah is merciful and as our creator knows what we can and can't cope with.

    I don't think it would work today in some cultures as women may be more inclined to take up arms themselves rather than be taken as slaves, in the same way as marriage to nine years old won't work today as children have changed and mature later.

    *waits to be called a modernist, a kaffir, a FEMI-NAZI...*
    You will with that Ak-47 to your head. Do people even know how the slaves are taken? They are a part of war booty. This is not something like a maid which you hire to clean your house...

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo. View Post
    You will with that Ak-47 to your head. Do people even know how the slaves are taken? They are a part of war booty. This is not something like a maid which you hire to clean your house...
    You shouldn't assume I don't know that. Of course I know and it's in the context of both scenarios that I talk about the subject.

    But I also think that the women of today are different. I may be wrong but i doubt they will sit in a tent waiting to be picked by their captors.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by flashnazia View Post
    You shouldn't assume I don't know that. Of course I know and it's in the context of both scenarios that I talk about the subject.

    But I also think that the women of today are different. I may be wrong but i doubt they will sit in a tent waiting to be picked by their captors.
    No matter if they are waiting in a tent or not. This has been halal for us and will continue to remain so until Yamul Qiyamah. Time is not relevant here.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo. View Post
    You will with that Ak-47 to your head. Do people even know how the slaves are taken? They are a part of war booty. This is not something like a maid which you hire to clean your house...
    Wow. I for one am shocked.

    So you are allowed to 'force' a woman in captivity and have sex with her, but free mixing and having a girlfriend is completely and utterly haram?

    Excellent logic.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by oz99 View Post
    Wow. I for one am shocked.

    So you are allowed to 'force' a woman in captivity and have sex with her, but free mixing and having a girlfriend is completely and utterly haram?

    Excellent logic.
    So you think the Sahaba(RA) forced them into slavery? Are you a Muslim?

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo. View Post
    No matter if they are waiting in a tent or not. This has been halal for us and will continue to remain so until Yamul Qiyamah. Time is not relevant here.
    Nobody said it wasn't halal. Where did I say that?

    Just because it's halal doesn't mean you'll be able to do it without protest, especially if your 'captives' are non-Muslim.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by flashnazia View Post
    Nobody said it wasn't halal. Where did I say that?

    Just because it's halal doesn't mean you'll be able to do it without protest, especially if your 'captives' are non-Muslim.
    I never said you said it wasn't Halal. This thread is not about women protesting or not. This thread is about the status of Concubines in Islam.

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    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    a slave girl has similar rights to a wife, the man has to protect her and maintain her. she has to eat as they eat, be clothed as they are clothed, sheltered to the same standard that they are stated. As her protector he is sinful if he harms her, the same way he is sinful if he harms a wife. When a slave enters in to slavery there is a responsibility on the master.
    Quote Originally Posted by oz99 View Post
    Wow. I for one am shocked.

    So you are allowed to 'force' a woman in captivity and have sex with her, but free mixing and having a girlfriend is completely and utterly haram?

    Excellent logic.

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    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    the women of the time were tough, they were bedouins and tribal nomads as far as I understand, the time was a time full of warfare and clashing tribes, if a non muslim tribe captured them they would of known that worse treatment would occur to them, then if a muslim tribe captured them and they had rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by flashnazia View Post
    Nobody said it wasn't halal. Where did I say that?

    Just because it's halal doesn't mean you'll be able to do it without protest, especially if your 'captives' are non-Muslim.
    if you look an area with refugee camps full of women today, the women are not slaves, but they have no food, they feel unsafe and are often attacked while out collecting fire wood etc, this relationship of slavery prevents them being open to abuse, feeds and clothes them and their children, prevents them from starvation and disease.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by naila-k View Post
    the women of the time were tough, they were bedouins and tribal nomads as far as I understand, the time was a time full of warfare and clashing tribes, if a non muslim tribe captured them they would of known that worse treatment would occur to them, then if a muslim tribe captured them and they had rights.

    if you look an area with refugee camps full of women today, the women are not slaves, but they have no food, they feel unsafe and are often attacked while out collecting fire wood etc, this relationship of slavery prevents them being open to abuse, feeds and clothes them and their children, prevents them from starvation and disease.
    But in this day and age why do we need to enslave them? We should be feeding and clothing them without capturing them.

    I think women in that time were very very different to the women of today. It many different ways, good and bad.

  29. #29
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    Re: Female Concubines

    A slave is to be treated, fed and sheltered as one's household. The maids and servants of today are treated worse and this is what is portrayed in our minds. When a maid/servant is treated like this, how much worse will a slave be treated? There is a misconception that masters will not be held responsible over their treatment of slaves.


    As far as concubines are concerned, it is a path to freedom. If they bear offspring from the master, they will gain freedom. Perhaps people imagine big parties and prostitute slave girls like in ancient greek civilisation, but slaves cannot be given to soldiers even by the commander of the army that took them. This is not the commonly occurring rapes by invaders and favours by the prisoners-of-war.

    In fact, even today, I believe that slavery is required to free unofficial slaves from the shackles in some parts of the world.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Usernamed's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    Anybody know where I can get a female concubine please?


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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by Usernamed View Post
    Anybody know where I can get a female concubine please?

    Tried Tescos?

  32. #32
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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo. View Post
    What is there to understand? It is made Halah by Allah(SWT) and they fall under what the right hand posses.



    Note that there are different kind of people.Some accept and obey.Some decide then accept and obey.Some deny then deny and never accept.So explanation is to be given.
    صلى الله على حبيبه محمد و على آله و أصحابه و سلم
    Al-Muslimeen

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by Qreus View Post
    I can't imagine this being consensual and it seems almost like rape in my eyes.
    this is where your problem is, you imagine its not consensual, thats because you are leaving behind all the other teachings of Islam from Quran and sahih sunnah in regards to good treatment of spouses, women, and right hand possessions. A man is not permitted to fall on a woman like an animal, he is told specifically to send a messenger first. This applies to all women whom are lawful for him, raping a woman is fobidden in islam, and the punishment for rape can be very severe. Forcing oneself on a woman without taking the steps prescribed by the Allah`s messenger can cause her serious physical, mental and emotional damage.

    "Not one of you should fall upon his wife like an animal; but let there first be a messenger between you." "And what is that messenger?" they asked, and he replied: "Kisses and words."
    (Daylami)

    Imam al-Zabidi adds: "This should include not only the cheeks and lips; and then he should caress the breasts and nipples, and every part of her body." (Zabidi, Ithaf al-Sada al Muttaqin, V 372)
    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

    The Prophet said:

    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

    muslim

    Narrated 'Abdullah:

    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]


  34. #34
    Remember... adri's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    And what if the concubine refuses to have sex with the man?

    To be honest, I am reading and reading more into this, but I am still having issues taking this in. I am not the most knowledgeable Muslim, but I find this contradictory to what I have practiced so far, that is, not free mixing, to not have a boyfriend. Yet, I am having so much trouble with this topic that I have no idea what to do.

    The Prophet (saw) said, Verily, the knots of Islam will be undone one by one. Whenever one knot is lost, then the people grabbed onto the one which came after it. The first of these knots will be ruling and the last will be the salah.[1]

    The author of Sitoon as-Sultaniyah says about this Hadith: “It was the Prophet who tied together the knots of Islam, including the uppermost knot of ruling after he established the Islamic state…As mentioned by Imam Mawardi the leadership has been proscribed as the succession of the Prophet in protecting the deen and governing the societal affairs. In this respect – Imam Baidawi mentioned that the Imama/Khalifah is the succession from the Prophet in the establishment of the laws of the Shari’ah. So without the Imam the laws lie unapplied and the territory is not protected effectively. The hadith indicates that it is the uppermost knot that keeps the subsequent knots safe from being untied. This is since it is the ruler that is responsible to apply Islam in its entirety, to implement the limits proscribed by Allah and to protect the society. Imam Ahmed mentioned without an Imam (for the Muslims as their leader) there would be fitna, and the destruction of the symbols of Islam ending with the Prayer is a great fitna.[2]




    [1] Tabarani, Musnad Ahmad and Al Hakim in his Al Mustadrak
    [2] Ibid. pg. 46


  35. #35
    star child Ariadne's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    I think in dirty-minded men, having slaves can be another good excuse to have more than 4 "wives"

    But still.....

    A quote from Encyclopaedia Britannica :

    "Besides a measure of economic justice and the creation of a strong idea of community, the Prophet Muḥammad effected a general reform of Arab society, in particular protecting its weaker segments—the poor, the orphans, women, and slaves. Slavery was not legally abolished, but emancipation of slaves was religiously encouraged as an act of merit. Slaves were given legal rights, including the right of acquiring their freedom in return for payment, in installments, of a sum agreed upon by the slave and his master out of his earnings. A slave woman who bore a child by her master became automatically free after her master's death. The infanticide of girls that was practiced among certain tribes in pre-Islāmic Arabia—out of fear of poverty or a sense of shame—was forbidden."
    Last edited by Ariadne; 31-08-12 at 12:28 PM.

    "Place the light in my soul and make light abundant for me.
    Make me light and grant me light.” (Sahih Muslim)

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by arachnide View Post
    I think in dirty-minded men, having slaves can be another good excuse to have more than 4 "wives"
    Here we go...

  37. #37
    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    sis it is not like free mixing and zina where you have a relationship with someone but have no responsibilities to them.

    It is more like a marriage, you cant give the slave more work then you do yourself, they have to wear same clothes as you, eat same food as you eat, sleep in same standards as you, they are more like part of the family.
    the concept we have of slavery is different to the islamic concept.
    Quote Originally Posted by adri View Post
    And what if the concubine refuses to have sex with the man?

    To be honest, I am reading and reading more into this, but I am still having issues taking this in. I am not the most knowledgeable Muslim, but I find this contradictory to what I have practiced so far, that is, not free mixing, to not have a boyfriend. Yet, I am having so much trouble with this topic that I have no idea what to do.

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  38. #38
    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    Quote Originally Posted by arachnide View Post
    I think in dirty-minded men, having slaves can be another good excuse to have more than 4 "wives"
    it is no easy thing to provide for, protect, feed, clothe, shelter and maintain more then 1 wife and her children, let alone four wives, their children plus slaves and their children. Any man who does it Islamically has my respect.

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    Re: Female Concubines

    Just don't ever let non-Muslims throw you off the path; for someone who doesn't know all of Islam it's easy to trip them up on details and concepts we're not clear on in the beginning. Concubines and slavery are details and footnotes in history that can be learned late
    Some non-muslims, especially female ones, want to know how these details and footnotes might affect them if they are in Muslim territories.

    Failure to explain might be interpreted by these people as the attempt to hide something.

    What, in fact, is today's belief on this matter? I've looked it up several places, and most of them equivocate by saying words to the effect that it's not worth talking about, since there are no slaves today.

    (I wish that were true, but we all know it's not)

    I've come across a couple of things that indicate that lots of men yearn for the good ole days, when women were possessions and did what they were told. One recently posted speech is by an imam/scholar (?) who speaks of how wonderful it would be to go to the slave market and buy the prettiest girl there.

    So let's deal with a hypothetical question. A largely Muslim country todayhas within its borders a community of Christians. The Christians are seen to be 'spreading mischief in the land' or whatever. Is the Muslim community justified in doing battle with these people and stealing their women as booty?

    Let's deal with a more realistic scenario. The Muslim nations unit and manage to subdue Israel. May the soldiers take the survivors as slaves?

  40. #40
    1110010 Peacenik's Avatar
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    Re: Female Concubines

    -------------------
    Last edited by Peacenik; 31-08-12 at 02:48 PM.
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

    QuranExplorer.com, where you can Listen to the Holy Recitation and Translation online in Arabic and English : http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/


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