Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,638
    Rep Power
    0

    Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Salam,

    The following is a brilliant article by Imam Suhaib Webb on the issue of calling someone a kafir - thus putting someone outside the fold of Islam. This unfortunately is a frequent practise by obnoxious and arrogant youth who patrol the message boards of various Islamic forums. The following is specific to the practise of Takfir -but the ethical and moral guidelines that the Imam describes can be applied to a whole host of situations such as calling someone a munafiq or any other such grave term of moral transgression.

    It is imperative that we spread this knowledge around so that some people truly understand the gravity of the statements that they make and just how strict and stringent our jurists and scholars are regarding this matter.

    Question

    The other day I was out with some of my friends and we started talking about different groups. One of them said that such and such person is a kafir (infidel). Upon hearing this I told him that was not right. In his defense he told me that he heard one of this person’s talks and what he said was nothing but kufar. What do I do?

    Answer

    Bismillah wa salatu wa salamu `ala sayydina rasulillah.

    Sadly, this is the case of some in our community. Frank Luntz mentions in What American Think…Really that 90% of Americans think they are smarter than other Americans. Unfortunately, it seems that arrogance like this transcends faith and falls into our community as well.

    Takfir (declaring apostasy) is not an easy affair. Just like any ruling it has certain conditions that, if not present, will prevent the ruling, in this case disbelief, from occurring.

    Here are some of those conditions:

    • Declaring apostasy cannot be based on probability, meaning if there is a chance that a person may not be a kafir. Imam Malik said, “If I have 99 reasons to believe a person is a kafir and one to believe he is not, I’ll prefer the latter.”
    • Takfir is made regarding things that are known by default, like God being one and the finality of prophethood. The Malikis listed 33 issues that fall under the heading, malum min al-din bi al-Dururrah.
    • Takfir cannot be based on following an opinion (ijtihad) of a scholar in fiqh (legal verdict). There is not a kafir in fiqh because fiqh implies knowledge of things beyond the average person’s scope. For that reason a person is not declared a kafir who makes tawassul (praying to Allah through an intermediary). Imam Ahmed said, “We do not declare such people as kuffar.”
    • Takfir cannot be based on a sincere attempt to interpret or understand a text. Allah subhanahu wa ta`la (Exalted is He) mentions the followers of Christ saying, “Can God send a table from the heavens?” This is a statement of kufur but they were excused because it was a sincere question and an effort to understand.
    • Takfir cannot be based on actions that are due to ignorance. In the Qur’an we find the followers of Musa alayhi assalam saying, “Make for us idols to worship like they (the people of Egypt) had.” Musa’s response was, “You are an ignorant people.” He did not say that you are a kuffar. This verse servers as the foundation for the axiom “Al-’Uthru bi Jahl” (Ignorance is excused).
    • Takfir can only be made on an act of pure worship coupled with an intention that is clear kufur. Al-Dhahabi said, “If I saw a Muslim making sujud to a grave, I would not declare takfir until I talked to him.”
    • Takfir cannot be made upon an action that was done under the threat of harm. Allah (swt) says, “Except for the one who was forced (to say kufur) and his heart was full of faith.”
    • Takfir cannot be made upon an act that was an emotional burst. The Prophet ﷺ (peace be upon him) said that the man who lost his camel in the desert and later found it, said, “God! You are my servant and I am your Lord.” The Prophet ﷺ did not say this man was a kafir even though the statement is kufur. Ibn Hajar notes that this man was overcome with joy, so his statement was an abbreviation.
    • Just because someone’s group is not from Ahl-Sunna does not mean they are kafir. For that reason the companions prayed janazah (funeral prayer) for the khawarij. They did not collect the spoils of war from them, but gave it to the deceased’s family according to the Islamic rules on inheritance. Ibn Taymiyya says that this proves the companions considered them Muslims.
    • Making takfir of others without knowledge is a major sin.
    • There is no takfir for major sins (only in certain situations).
    • Takfir is to be made, in most cases, by a Qadi and not a lay person or even a mufti as noted by Khalil. The reason for this is because, in the classical age, this implied a loss of rights. Secondly, a lay person accusing another of kufur falls under qathf, a major sin.

      Allah (swt) knows best.



    Suhaib
    http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-stud...meone-a-kafir/
    Last edited by 2nd Reflection; 17-08-12 at 06:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    181
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Beautiful. Masha Allah. We must collectively defeat this neo-salafist takfirism

  3. #3
    Odan abu saalehah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    2,663
    Rep Power
    94

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Calling a person a kafir unjustly is a great sin against them. But calling an obvious kafir a muslim is also an injustice upon the Deen of Islam.

    There is also times when people believe takfir is made when it is not.

    Saying group x is kuffar is not the takfir upon the individual spoken of in the hadith, though it could also be a great oppression if it is unjust. So takfir is made against the group, not the individual in some instances (in others it is against the group and the individual like the qadianis, alawis or ismailis).

    So saying the rafadis or the brailwees are kuffar is not the same as making takfir against them individually, which we should avoid due to igorance of their sects beliefs, and hding of their true beliefs by their leaders and we should assume they are muslim until the evidence is established against them on a case by case basis and this is the judgement of ibn taymiyyah (rh) and most of the ulema of ahlus sunnah.

    Saying people who do x action, have y belief etc are kuffar is not takfir. This is takfir against the action or belief. not necessarily everyone who holds it.

    Also, saying person x has done kufr. This is not takfir either. Saying a person individually is a kafir. This is takfir.

    though we should avoid making takfir unjustly or in haste we should remember imam nawawi (rh) said the one who makes takfir and is wrong could well be forgiven by Allaah if he made it out of zeal to protect the deen from kufr entering into it, and not out of anger or being argumentative and that it is that type of takfir which returns upon the giver if it is not true.

    edit1. one last point, RE tawassul through intermediaries who have died, this is something all the scholars of ahlus sunnah agree is kufr akbar, the difference is one of whether it is an issue known by necessity, and what the imam is stating is not that it is something permissable, or even not kufr but rather the position stated by most ulema of ahlus sunnah which is it is kufr akbar, but not known by necessity so takfir is not made against such a person unless the evidence is established and they reject it and remain upon their kufr.

    edit2. though some difference of opinion, the stronger evidence is that takfir is permissable though not advised for those who know its rulings, however the takfir which is kept for the qadi or imam is that which relates to declaring their blood halal.
    Last edited by abu saalehah; 17-08-12 at 10:25 PM.

  4. #4

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,638
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Takfiri Brigade (TB) by Sheikh Hamza Yusuf:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl9_nDwhlDo

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    100
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Very true. A "kafir" is someone who has heard the message of Islam, knows it is the truth but still rejects it. It is sad that many use the term so loosely.

  6. #6
    Odan abu saalehah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    2,663
    Rep Power
    94

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by al-Rashid View Post
    Very true. A "kafir" is someone who has heard the message of Islam, knows it is the truth but still rejects it. It is sad that many use the term so loosely.
    no, a kafir is someone who rejects islam, the rest of the conditions you attach are not valid, batil.

    classical fiqh is quite well developed on this matter but modernists seek to ignore this and just come up with their own definitions to suite their modernist needs

  7. #7

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,638
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by abu saalehah View Post
    no, a kafir is someone who rejects islam, the rest of the conditions you attach are not valid, batil.

    classical fiqh is quite well developed on this matter but modernists seek to ignore this and just come up with their own definitions to suite their modernist needs
    Go read Imam al-Ghazali before spreading your pseudo-salafi ideology here....

    You have no idea what you are talking about and seem to be in a rush to reach a conclusion of condemnation contrary the opinion of Imam Malik....

    http://www.mujahideenryder.net/pdf/W...sbelievers.pdf

  8. #8
    Odan abu saalehah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    2,663
    Rep Power
    94

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
    Go read Imam al-Ghazali before spreading your pseudo-salafi ideology here....

    You have no idea what you are talking about and seem to be in a rush to reach a conclusion of condemnation contrary the opinion of Imam Malik....

    http://www.mujahideenryder.net/pdf/W...sbelievers.pdf
    we can do this discussion in a few days after eid, but do you seriously take your deen from hamza yusuf, advisor in chief on islam to the leaders of the kuffar when they are attacking muslims, and consider him trustworthy?

  9. #9

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,638
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by abu saalehah View Post
    we can do this discussion in a few days after eid, but do you seriously take your deen from hamza yusuf, advisor in chief on islam to the leaders of the kuffar when they are attacking muslims, and consider him trustworthy?
    Besides your disgusting slander - yes I do most certainly take the Shaykh as a trustworthy source of knowledge - it is your loss that you do not...

  10. #10

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,375
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by abu saalehah View Post
    you seriously take your deen from hamza yusuf
    Which of "todays" scholars do You take your deen from ?

  11. #11
    Odan abu saalehah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    2,663
    Rep Power
    94

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by 2nd Reflection View Post
    Besides your disgusting slander - yes I do most certainly take the Shaykh as a trustworthy source of knowledge - it is your loss that you do not...
    did he or did he not become president bush's advisor on islam when Bush was waging war against the muslims?

    if you are not aware of this, you might be justified in saying i slandered him, but if so please go research the matter. I will inshallaah anyway return to this matter in a few days and pm you some info on your 'sheikh' so you can find a more trustworthy source of islamic knowledge inshallaah.

  12. #12

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    1,638
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    Quote Originally Posted by abu saalehah View Post
    did he or did he not become president bush's advisor on islam when Bush was waging war against the muslims?

    if you are not aware of this, you might be justified in saying i slandered him, but if so please go research the matter. I will inshallaah anyway return to this matter in a few days and pm you some info on your 'sheikh' so you can find a more trustworthy source of islamic knowledge inshallaah.
    Do not bother - I am content with my scholars - you can be with yours - to each their own path...

  13. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    20
    Rep Power
    3

    Re: Calling Someone A Kafir - Imam Suhaib Webb

    You brothers should just chill out and remember it is eid. Stop taking your family problems out on each other lolololol

  14. #14
    Odan sweetstar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    1,898
    Rep Power
    46
    Salams great thread great message im not going to debate it one bit. It's so
    true none of us call any muslim a kaffir because only Allah knows and I will never do so and risk throwing myself out of Islam.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 03:54 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Super PM System provided by vBSuper_PM (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Skin By: PurevB.com

MPADC.com Islamic Web Hosting | Muslim Ad Network | Islamic Nasheeds | Islamic Mobile App Developement Android & iPhone
Omar Esa Nasheed Artist
| Omar Esa Nasheeds | Islamic Web Hosting : Muslim Designers : Nasheeds : Labbayk Nasheeds : silk route jilbab: Hijab: : Web Islamic Newsletter: Islamic Web Hosting

Hijabs Online | Hijabs | Hijab Shop | Hijab Shop | AlJazeera Live, MBC Live, Makkah Live : Treasure of The Scholars