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  1. #1
    Odan
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    What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Due to many posts, from the wedding dress thread. I decided to open a new thread.

    There were two main views that came up from that thread -

    1. Being extravagant is to spend more than your means - which means that extravagance is relative and not something that we can put a limit/number on.

    2. Being extravagant is to spend on ANYTHING that that you don't need. Being extravagant is to own anything that is not a necessity.

    I agree with the former, based on my old notes that I took in my Fiqh class years ago. Some of my notes are below..

    1. Prophet Sulayman (as), wealth was legendary. He was given a kingdom that no one before him had had and no one after him will have...He prayed for this and was granted it (thus showing that praying for and possessing wealth is not sinful). Furthermore, it is also important to note that he did not NEED a Kingdom, it was not a necessity. His prayer and Allah's answer to his prayer are quoted in the Qur'an.

    2. The verse following verse in the Qur'an

    “Let the rich man spend according to his means, and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allâh has given him. Allâh puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him” [65:7].

    3. The following hadith

    The Prophet (saw) saw me wearing old, tattered clothes, and asked me, “Do you have any wealth?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “What kind of wealth?” I said, “All that Allah has given me of camels and sheep.” He said, “Then show the generous blessings that He has given you.” (Narrated by Ahmad)

    3. The rich people from the past who enjoyed nice clothing and food i.e. Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Malik

    (I've summarised my notes - cos there's way too much to copy out)



    Feel free to disagree - just avoid slander and assumptions.

  2. #2
    Senior Member isawab_user's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Bear in mind that it is prudent to display wealth when the circumstances are right.
    For instance, you wouldnt want to opulently dressed while people around you are in tattered clothes - that's an extreme example, but I am sure you get the drift.
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  3. #3
    Odan Juvegirl's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    1. Prophet Sulayman (as), wealth was legendary. He was given a kingdom that no one before him had had and no one after him will have...He prayed for this and was granted it (thus showing that praying for and possessing wealth is not sinful). Furthermore, it is also important to note that he did not NEED a Kingdom, it was not a necessity. His prayer and Allah's answer to his prayer are quoted in the Qur'an.

    The Prophet Sulayman was chosen by Allah swt to succeed his father on the throne. It was after this that he asked Allah swt to grant him a mighty kingdom. For his own wealth, he made baskets and sold them in the marketplace. With his profits, he bought food and shared it with the poor. That doesn't sound like an extravagent person. Wealthy? Yes. But not extravagent, at least not for himself. Allahu Alim.

    2. The verse following verse in the Qur'an

    “Let the rich man spend according to his means, and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allâh has given him. Allâh puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him” [65:7].

    When I read this, I hear: poor people shouldn't go into debt trying to out-do the wealthy. Not: spend if you have it, live it up.

    When I looked up the verse, I found this:

    Let a man of wealth spend from his wealth, and he whose provision is restricted - let him spend from what Allah has given him. Allah does not charge a soul except [according to] what He has given it. Allah will bring about, after hardship, ease. (emphasis mine)

    The part left out of the original post further supports my view of the verse and not what seems to be the view of the OP (forgive the presumption).

    Then I checked the tafsir for this verse:

    Let the affluent man expend, on the divorced or the suckling woman, out of his affluence. And let he whose provision has been straitened, restricted, for him, expend of what God has given him, in accordance with his means. God does not charge any soul save except with what He has given it. God will assuredly bring about ease after hardship — which He indeed did by way of the [Muslim] conquests. http://www.listenarabic.com/tafseer-quran65-7.html

    So we're talking about giving in charity here, not in spending on oneself.

    3. The rich people from the past who enjoyed nice clothing and food i.e. Imam Abu Hanifah, Imam Malik

    Rather than looking at the Imams I would propose we look to the sahabas, as the Prophet saws said:

    “The best of my followers are those living in my century (generation), then those coming after them and then those coming after the latter.” [Bukhari]

    Sad ibn ar-Rabi’ah...in the spirit of generosity and magnanimity with which the Ansar greeted the Muhajirin, said to Abdur-Rahman [bin Auf]:

    “My brother! Among the people of Madinah I have the most wealth. I have two orchards and I have two wives. See which of the two orchards you like and I shall vacate it for you and which of my two wives is pleasing to you and I will divorce her for you.”


    “Contribute sadaqah for I want to despatch an expedition.” Abdur-Rahman went to his house and quickly returned. “O Messenger of God,” he said, “I have four thousand (dinars). I give two thousand as a qard to my Lord and two thousand I leave for my family.”

    Abdur-Rahman ibn Awf...donated two hundred awqiyyah of gold whereupon Umar ibn al-Khattab said to the Prophet: I have (now) seen Abdur-Rahman committing a wrong. He has not left anything for his family...

    ...caravan of Abdur-Rahman ibn Awf which has come from Syria bearing his merchandise...There are seven hundred camels...He was so over-joyed..."this entire caravan with all its merchandise, I will giver sabilillah.”And so he did. In a great festival of charity and righteousness, he distributed all that the massive caravan had brought to the people of Madinah and surrounding areas. Taken from http://lolliesplace.wordpress.com/20...ahman-bin-auf/

    This is only ONE of the sahabas.
    -------------
    EDIT: some additonal points:

    It was narrated that ‘Amr ibn ‘Awf (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah, it is not poverty that I fear for you, rather what I fear for you is that worldly riches may be given to you as they were given to those who came before you, and you will compete for them with one another as they competed with one another, and you will be destroyed as they were destroyed.”

    Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2988) and Muslim (2961).

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Know that the life of this world is only play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children. (It is) as the likeness of vegetation after rain, thereof the growth is pleasing to the tiller; afterwards it dries up and you see it turning yellow; then it becomes straw. But in the Hereafter (there is) a severe torment (for the disbelievers ___evildoers), and (there is) forgiveness from Allaah and (His) Good Pleasure (for the believers __ good‑doers). And the life of this world is only a deceiving enjoyment”

    [al-Hadeed 57:20]

    “and eat and drink but waste not by extravagance, certainly He (Allaah) likes not Al-Musrifoon (those who waste by extravagance)”
    [al-A’raaf 7:31]

    ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: By Allaah, if I wanted I could wear the finest clothes among you, and eat the best food, and have the most luxurious life. But I heard that Allaah will condemn people for some of their actions and said (interpretation of the meaning):

    “You received your good things in the life of the world, and you took your pleasure therein. Now this Day you shall be recompensed with a torment of humiliation, because you were arrogant in the land without a right, and because you used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah)”

    [al-Ahqaaf 46:20]

    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/11153

    a Bedouin requested the Prophet (peace be upon him) to show him how to make ablution. The Prophet (peace be upon him) showed him the sequence of Wudu and insisted that a Muslim must wash each part not more than three times because if he does so he has committed an excess. The Prophet (peace be upon him) emphasized that a Muslim must not use water extravagantly even in ablution and even if he happened to be beside a running river.

    washing more than 3 times is excess, even if you're beside a running river, but thousands for a dress to wear once is not?

    Ali, r.a., "To consume more than needed is extravagance."
    Last edited by Juvegirl; 10-01-12 at 05:43 PM.
    "Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2

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    14 yearz old :P AkhRidz's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Salam,
    I totally agree with what you are saying
    But can I ask what Fiqh class was it?
    Was it an organisation (any links)?
    I assume they were in London, could you please tell me the name or something?

  5. #5
    Barayev
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    i dont know what the islamic definition is bit i think extravagance is spending above your means. tho i guess buying something for the sake showing off and showing your wealth would also be a form of extravagance... eg buying a certain car, not because of its useful features anf functionality, but becaues it gives off a certain image can be seen as a form of extravagance

  6. #6
    Odan abu_fulan_fulan's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    to be extravagant is to spend beyond the limits set with the guidance set up by the righteous predecessors, but even the most lavish of weddings in their day would be considered cheap and miserly by the standards of the jahil families of today.

  7. #7
    Love the Sunnah ImaanSeeker's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    We all know that one who goes over the top in showing off with fancy cars, sprawling mansions, designer clothes and the like can certainly lead a person down the slippery slope of pride and vanity. But, often times, in religious circles the opposite is true, as well. Those who go over the top in ‘showing off’ how ‘not showing off’ and simple they can be, if that makes any sense.

    I was once sitting in a dars when the Shaykh spoke regarding fundraising events that call upon members of the audience to stand up and call out a figure that they were willing to donate. A student in our dars said that he felt that standing up and announcing a figure in front of everyone is a form of showing off and he would rather donate in secret with the respective person in charge, as that is a more humble approach. The Shaykh replied that a person who actively thinks in this manner is also committing a form of riyaa (vanity), as the person who is free of riyaa is a person who is not affected by this mantra of ‘trying to actively be humble.‘

    This concept is best manifested in the manner that we have been instructed to dress in our Deen. There are two extremes with regards to dress that both not so religious people and religious people fall prey too. One is to dress above one’s means by incorporating the latest fashion to look sharp and in line with the latest trends. The other is to shun looking sharp and trendy in hopes that the simple ‘appearance’ is the path of piety.

    Hakeem Al Ummah Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi rahimullah sums up this matter, in his Malfuzaat:

    The criterion for clothes is that the wearer’s attention must not be drawn to it, nor should his gaze linger on the garments he is wearing. If a nawab (a person of wealth and position) wears clothing worth a few hundred rupees, he will not be attracted to it at all. On the other hand, a poverty stricken and common person, on wearing clothes worth just a few rupees (ie even a few rupees for him is a lot) he will be attracted and become preoccupied with its beauty and designs. So, for the nawab, clothing worth a few hundred rupees is permissible, and for the poverty-stricken person, clothing worth just a few rupees is not permissible.

    Also, if a person (who can afford better) wears cheap and low quality clothing, he too will become preoccupied with his clothes by either (continuously) thinking how low and humble he is or by thinking that his nafs (lower self) is so annihilated, he doesn’t care about dignity and honor. This is also preoccupation in thoughts (which should be avoided).

    Khateeb al-Baghdadi narrates in his Tareekh al-Baghdad:

    Imam Abu Hanifah rahimullah once asked a man who was shabbily dressed to stay behind, after the others had left from his circle of study. He then said: “Lift up the prayer rug and take the money that is there and buy yourself some nice clothes.” The man replied that he was wealthy and had no need of the money. Imam Abu Hanifah said: “Has it not reached you that the Prophet said: Allah likes to see the mark of His benevolence on His servant?” [Tareekh Baghdad 13:263]

    Possibly referring to the following hadith in Saheeh Muslim regarding the father of Ibn Abi Al Ahwas radiAllah anhu:

    أَنَّهُ أَتَى النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِي ثَوْبٍ دُونٍ فَقَالَ لَهُ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَلَكَ مَالٌ قَالَ نَعَمْ مِنْ كُلِّ الْمَالِ قَالَ مِنْ أَيِّ الْمَالِ قَالَ قَدْ آتَانِي اللَّهُ مِنْ الْإِبِلِ وَالْغَنَمِ وَالْخَيْلِ وَالرَّقِيقِ قَالَ فَإِذَا آتَاكَ اللَّهُ مَالًا فَلْيُرَ عَلَيْكَ أَثَرُ نِعْمَةِ اللَّهِ وَكَرَامَتِهِ

    He came in a shabby thobe to greet the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam and he (the Prophet) said: ‘Do you have wealth?’ He said: Yes, from all its types. He said: ‘From where does your money come?’ I said: ‘Allah has given me from camels, sheep, horses and slaves.’ He said: ‘Then if Allah gave you wealth, reveal the magnitude of the bounty and blessing that Allah Ta’ala has given you.”

    Qadi Iyad rahimullah in Tartib Al-Madaraik quotes Imam Malik rahimullah as saying:

    “I do not like not to see the traces of His blessings on anyone to whom Allah gives blessings. Concealing blessings is ingratitude.“

    Imam Abd Al Aziz Ad Dihlawi rahimullah in Bustan Al Muhadditheen says about the Salaf As Salih and good clothing:

    The right acting first generations had a sincere good intention about the use of expensive good quality clothing…Those who wore good quality expensive clothes intended to display the effects of the blessing of Allah, exalted is He.

    In conclusion, as with any aspect of our Deen there is fine balance. Going over the top in either direction, either too fancy or too simple, just for the sake of going over the top is an unfounded concept within our Deen. Rather our Deen teaches us a great lesson in balance, and one of especial note during this worldwide economic recession:

    To live a lifestyle that is within our means.
    ..
    The Sahaba (radiAllahu anhum) used to cling to the Sunnah just because it was Sunnah
    Today we abandon the Sunnah, just because it's Sunnah.

  8. #8
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    There's nothing wrong with wearing elegant, and even expensive dresses if one has the means for it. Even Rasulullah wore them when he had the means for it.

    When Allah gives His servant abundant wealth, then he should not wear old, worn-out clothes. It's good if he wears elegant clothes because Allah likes to see the affect of His blessings upon His servant around him. If one wears old, worn out clothes despite having the extended means, that's ingratitude to Allah.

    Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik (RA) used to wear elegant clothes, as well.

    However, one should not do this to show off or to make others feel inferior.

    Apply moderation!

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    Odan
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvegirl View Post
    That doesn't sound like an extravagent person. Wealthy? Yes. But not extravagent, at least not for himself. Allahu Alim.

    2. The verse following verse in the Qur'an

    “Let the rich man spend according to his means, and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allâh has given him. Allâh puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him” [65:7].

    When I read this, I hear: poor people shouldn't go into debt trying to out-do the wealthy. Not: spend if you have it, live it up.

    When I looked up the verse, I found this:

    This is only ONE of the sahabas.
    -------------
    Prophet Sulayman (as), also had a flying carpet and a palace where the floor was see through crystal class with water/fishes under it...so realistic that Queen Sheba lifted the hem of the skirt when stepping on it.

    Sounds extravagant by many people's standards.

    In regards to the verse, I don't interpret verses myself, or use google to do that. I only quote verses which have already been interepted by Scholars.

    And the third point, we should emulate the Prophets, Sahaba's and those who emulate the Peophets and the sahaba's.

    The likes of Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik were far closer to the Quran and Sunnah then we can ever be.

  10. #10
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    ↑That's true. Imam Abu Hanifah (RA) was actually the generation after the Sahabas (RA).

    Though, I don't think the sister was interpreting verses, as she posted tafseer from Al Jalalayn.

  11. #11
    Sincerity in Life al-siddiq's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Assalamu alaikum,

    I never got a full answer to this question (I have sort of asked it before).

    But what I did get is at least a partial answer.


    Buying high quality things that you need if you can afford it is NOT extravagance.

    If I remember correctly, the prophet peace be upon him offered to buy a very high quality camel. This would be similar to me buying a high quality car for the purpose of using it in the path of Allah.

    The same can apply to clothes.

    Of course if I'm the only one in the family, and I bought 2 cars because I wanted two different colors, I think that's a different matter no? =)
    If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

    Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.

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    Odan abu_fulan_fulan's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by al-siddiq View Post
    Assalamu alaikum,

    I never got a full answer to this question (I have sort of asked it before).

    But what I did get is at least a partial answer.


    Buying high quality things that you need if you can afford it is NOT extravagance.

    If I remember correctly, the prophet peace be upon him offered to buy a very high quality camel. This would be similar to me buying a high quality car for the purpose of using it in the path of Allah.

    The same can apply to clothes.

    Of course if I'm the only one in the family, and I bought 2 cars because I wanted two different colors, I think that's a different matter no? =)
    wa alaykumus salaam,

    applying the same reasoning, a man or women buying dozens of sets of clothes, with matching shoes and not for their quality cut and material but just for the designer label etc.

    Clear extravagance.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?



    I think everyone is different when it comes to what they deem extravagant. As brother Mirror said moderation is the key.

    Surah Furqan, verses 63 - 67:

    And the servants of Allah Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";
    Those who spend the night in adoration of their Lord prostrate and standing;
    Those who say, "Our Lord! avert from us the Wrath of Hell, for its Wrath is indeed an affliction grievous,-
    "Evil indeed is it as an abode, and as a place to rest in";
    Those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not niggardly, but hold a just (balance) between those (extremes);

    If we are talking about emulating the Prophets, didn't Rasulallah (saw) live in relative poverty even though he had a decent share of the spoils of the battles which took place?

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    Odan abu_fulan_fulan's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Listener_x View Post


    I think everyone is different when it comes to what they deem extravagant. As brother Mirror said moderation is the key.

    Surah Furqan, verses 63 - 67:

    And the servants of Allah Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";
    Those who spend the night in adoration of their Lord prostrate and standing;
    Those who say, "Our Lord! avert from us the Wrath of Hell, for its Wrath is indeed an affliction grievous,-
    "Evil indeed is it as an abode, and as a place to rest in";
    Those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not niggardly, but hold a just (balance) between those (extremes);

    If we are talking about emulating the Prophets, didn't Rasulallah (saw) live in relative poverty even though he had a decent share of the spoils of the battles which took place?
    wa alaykumus salaam,

    yes, but that is the best example to follow. What is being discussed is what is permissable,

    so the example of what is permissable would be that seen around Rasoolullaah (saw) which he did not forbid nor speak against.

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    Odan Juvegirl's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    Prophet Sulayman (as), also had a flying carpet and a palace where the floor was see through crystal class with water/fishes under it...so realistic that Queen Sheba lifted the hem of the skirt when stepping on it.

    Sounds extravagant by many people's standards.

    In regards to the verse, I don't interpret verses myself, or use google to do that. I only quote verses which have already been interepted by Scholars.

    And the third point, we should emulate the Prophets, Sahaba's and those who emulate the Peophets and the sahaba's.

    The likes of Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik were far closer to the Quran and Sunnah then we can ever be.
    The Flying Carpet was not something he *bought* sister. Please.

    And the palace was built specifically to dazzel the Queen so that she and her people would stop worshipping the sun and start worshipping Allah swt. That's not the same as buying something just to show off or use once and then forget about.

    Aouthibillah sister, please don't make accusations, even soft ones. I know we disagree on this point but I love you and only want what is best for you, and all my brothers and sisters in Islam. With each post that is contrary to my view, I reconsider my position, in case I am in error. I hope and pray the sam is true for everyone else.

    The Imams were in fact closer to the sunnah than we - but I posted about the sahabas who were the best generation. Not about myself. Surely you don't think the imams were above the sahabas?

    And do you suppose wearing good quality clothing is the same as spending two months' expenses on ONE outfit? That you wear ONCE in a lifetime? Do you think the Imams would have done this?

    Certainly there is a difference between replacing shabby clothing with good quality clothes that you can afford, and spending thousands to buy a dress for one day.
    "Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2

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    Brother in Islam Subtle Silence's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    We all like to have nice things sometimes; as long as you own those things and don't let them have ownership over you then it's fine..
    <<< Step Away From The Computer And Get Some Fresh Air >>>
    "The most perfect believer is the one with the most beautiful manners" ~ Prophet Muhammad

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    Sincerity in Life al-siddiq's Avatar
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by abu_fulan_fulan View Post
    wa alaykumus salaam,

    applying the same reasoning, a man or women buying dozens of sets of clothes, with matching shoes and not for their quality cut and material but just for the designer label etc.

    Clear extravagance.
    Yes I could see this too.

    InshAllah I'll try to see if I can get a better answer next time I see one of the brothers.
    If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

    Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvegirl View Post
    The Flying Carpet was not something he *bought* sister. Please.

    And the palace was built specifically to dazzel the Queen so that she and her people would stop worshipping the sun and start worshipping Allah swt. That's not the same as buying something just to show off or use once and then forget about.

    Aouthibillah sister, please don't make accusations, even soft ones. I know we disagree on this point but I love you and only want what is best for you, and all my brothers and sisters in Islam. With each post that is contrary to my view, I reconsider my position, in case I am in error. I hope and pray the sam is true for everyone else.

    The Imams were in fact closer to the sunnah than we - but I posted about the sahabas who were the best generation. Not about myself. Surely you don't think the imams were above the sahabas?
    .
    You can buy nice things, be given them, win them, inherit them etc etc - however, ultimately, everything we own comes from God. It doesnt matter how you acquire it.

    And in regards to his palace, the Prophet, specifically prayed for a kingdom, a kingdom like no other...something so amazing that no one had before him and no one would have after him....

    He also went on to say (this verse is in the Qur'an - so I'm paraphrasing), that the blessings that have been given to him, makes him want to glorify Allah.

    In regards to the verse, I didnt mean to offend...my only point was, that I don't wish to debate an ayah from the Quran, cos I'm not a scholar....I only quoted it, cos I heard it from a scholar in a lecture about extravagance. I dont wish to interpret or analyse it - I don't know Arabic well enough to do that and nor am I a scholar. I had no intention to accuse you of anything...I just wanted to point out that I choose not to do that.

    Yep, the Imam's were above the Sahaba, just like the Prophet was above the Sahaba....so I hold the view that as well as trying to follow the sunnah...you should also follow the way of those who were closer to the sunnah then we can ever be...

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvegirl View Post

    And do you suppose wearing good quality clothing is the same as spending two months' expenses on ONE outfit? That you wear ONCE in a lifetime? Do you think the Imams would have done this?

    Certainly there is a difference between replacing shabby clothing with good quality clothes that you can afford, and spending thousands to buy a dress for one day.
    Two months salary on one dress that costs thousands? IMO extravagance.

    However, if that one dress that costs thousands is one weeks salary. Then it's spending within your means.
    Last edited by LondonGal; 11-01-12 at 04:32 PM.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    You can buy nice things, be given them, win them, inherit them etc etc - however, ultimately, everything we own comes from God. It doesnt matter how you acquire it.

    And in regards to his palace, the Prophet, specifically prayed for a kingdom, a kingdom like no other...something so amazing that no one had before him and no one would have after him....

    He also went on to say (this verse is in the Qur'an - so I'm paraphrasing), that the blessings that have been given to him, makes him want to glorify Allah.

    In regards to the verse, I didnt mean to offend...my only point was, that I don't wish to debate an ayah from the Quran, cos I'm not a scholar....I only quoted it, cos I heard it from a scholar in a lecture about extravagance. I dont wish to interpret or analyse it - I don't know Arabic well enough to do that and nor am I a scholar. I had no intention to accuse you of anything...I just wanted to point out that I choose not to do that.

    Yep, the Imam's were above the Sahaba, just like the Prophet was above the Sahaba....so I hold the view that as well as trying to follow the sunnah...you should also follow the way of those who were closer to the sunnah then we can ever be...



    Two months salary on one dress that costs thousands? IMO extravagance.

    However, if that one dress that costs thousands is one weeks salary. Then it's spending within your means.
    Subhanallaah, fear Allaah sister, there are Muslims starving in Somalia, Muslims around the world being oppressed killed and you think spending thousands on a one off dress is justified, fear Allaah.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    This argument like many others is never going to get resolved.

    Everyone's cut-off line is different and entirely biased in one form or another as it's based on personal judgments, experiences and their society.

    No one is right and no one is wrong. The sooner people get that, the better.
    "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    Yep, the Imam's were above the Sahaba, just like the Prophet was above the Sahaba....so I hold the view that as well as trying to follow the sunnah...you should also follow the way of those who were closer to the sunnah then we can ever be...

    Two months salary on one dress that costs thousands? IMO extravagance.

    However, if that one dress that costs thousands is one weeks salary. Then it's spending within your means.
    Can you provide some evidence that shows the imams were above the sahaba?

    Regardless of their position, still, do you think they would have spent that kind of money on any
    one article of clothing?

    If Suleiman r.a. wanted a magnificent kingdom, and got it, mashallah. If Allah swt has blessed you with wealth mashallah. I haven't said that wanting or having wealth is bad or unIslamic or even that enjoying this wealth is bad or unIslamic.

    What my research has shown me is that mis-spending the wealth Allah swt gives us is wrong and unIslamic.

    Mashallah sister, if you receive a salary that, after taxes, gives you thousands of dollars per week. On Judgement Day, when Allah swt asks you what you did with your wealth, you can tell him you bought a really beautiful dress for yourself to wear for just one day. Do you think we are not accountable for all our deeds? Regardless of the charity one gives, the other expenditures will be judged on their own merits.

    The question you posted here was not about what, In Your Opinion, constitutes extravagence. It was about what Islam states is extravagence. I posted a lot of evidences about what the Quran, ahadith and the sahaba say. You've talked about clothing and palaces but no one-time unnecessary items. Until I see evidence to that effect, I cannot be convinced that it is permissible to spend one's wealth in that manner.
    "Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    ^^ Sorry typo. I didnt mean to write that the Imam's are above the Sahaba - I don't believe that. The sahaba's are above Imams, However I believe that the Imam's are closer to the Sunnah than we can ever be.

    I know you've posted many hadiths and Quranic ayats in regards to Islam. However, my quotes were not my own - they were summaries from talks from my teachers.

    Thats why (based on my lessons), I still hold the view that you can spend £1, £10, £100, £1000 or even one million pounds on a dress that you wear for one day...however, by someone elses standard it will still be considered extravagance.

    Extravagance is measured by your means. That's why we have people in other threads, saying its OK to spend a hundred but are shaking their heads at the thought of spending a thousand - they are measuring it by their own means. Even though, to many, even spending a few pounds will be considered extravagant.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    ^^ Sorry typo. I didnt mean to write that the Imam's are above the Sahaba - I don't believe that. The sahaba's are above Imams, However I believe that the Imam's are closer to the Sunnah than we can ever be.

    I know you've posted many hadiths and Quranic ayats in regards to Islam. However, my quotes were not my own - they were summaries from talks from my teachers.

    Thats why (based on my lessons), I still hold the view that you can spend £1, £10, £100, £1000 or even one million pounds on a dress that you wear for one day...however, by someone elses standard it will still be considered extravagance.

    Extravagance is measured by your means. That's why we have people in other threads, saying its OK to spend a hundred but are shaking their heads at the thought of spending a thousand - they are measuring it by their own means. Even though, to many, even spending a few pounds will be considered extravagant.
    You've nailed the concept.
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    NP re: typo- I was worrying I had it all wrong! I agree about the imams - much closer to the sunnah than people of today.

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    Extravagance is measured by your means.
    In light of all I've read on this subject I cannot agree to this statement. I think this "hadith" from Umar r.a., which I posted above, summarizes the entire matter so sufficiently that there really can be no debate:

    ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: By Allaah, if I wanted I could wear the finest clothes among you, and eat the best food, and have the most luxurious life. But I heard that Allaah will condemn people for some of their actions and said (interpretation of the meaning):

    “You received your good things in the life of the world, and you took your pleasure therein. Now this Day you shall be recompensed with a torment of humiliation, because you were arrogant in the land without a right, and because you used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah)”[al-Ahqaaf 46:20]
    Alhamdulilah we've discussed the issue in a fair and kind manner, and I would hate for animosity to build between us if we were to continue. I hope and pray to continue to have the opportunity to learn from you and share with you the joys of this life and inshallah meet with you in the next in happiness. May Allah swt grant all of us Jannah, Ameen.
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Salaam

    I agree with the OP's concept of extravagance.

    However, there are wider issues to consider. Something may be within a person's means and not extravagant but it could be fall within wasteful spending or riya (showing-off) which also exists in the community.

    E.g. Car is a necessity. Some people can afford a Honda Jazz, some can afford a porche let them buy a porche .. fair enough no issues there. But, if an arab can afford a million dollar BMW studded with diamonds according to the OP's definition that is not extravagant because he can afford it. But islimically, that may be wasteful (is wasteful imo) and have riya issues.

    The "having a means" is a valid concept but not the be all and end all. You have to consider whether something is a necessity purchase and not a purchase for the sake of a purchase, Is it more than a person needs? e.g. buying a 10 bedroom mansion for 2 people to live in. Am I spending this to show people how wealthy I am? etc etc.

    Islam teaches balance and reasonableness and a person, no matter how rich must stay within a certain degree of reason. Which, more often than not people don't.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    So I sort of got a better answer.

    I was told there are three things to consider:

    -Spending money in Haram
    -Not spending money in Fardh
    -Spending money or enjoying luxuries that cause you to become distracted from your Deen, or your Iman to weaken, or to commit Haram.


    So then I asked what about someone who buys say 100 pairs of shoes, and he replied saying it might lead them to becoming vain and showoff.



    He ended by saying that it is "better" to keep to the basics of life, because no matter what, too many luxuries will corrupt the heart.

    That is I believe the most important lesson to take away!
    If you have any questions feel free to PM me!

    Humililty, Sincerity, and the quest for Truth. There is no purpose in life but to seek the pleasure of Allah.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    salaams to all

    the difference bet us & Sulaiman (AS) or Haz Abu Bakr or Haz Uthmaan or Abdur Rahmaan ibn Auf(Rad) is that although they had lots of wealth, the love for wealth & worldly possessions did not enter their hearts.

    we have many examples which shows they wore patched clothes, lived simple lives & ate simple food despite being wealthy
    very rarely would you find them indulging in anything
    if they bought a new garment, they immediately gave away the older garment etc

    actually, despite being wealthy, they led such simple lives, that even those of us who are considered not well off would NEVER be able to survive living at their level of simplicity.

    and what about the sahabi who was sent by Rasullullah(SAW) for assistance to the home of Haz Uthmaan but when he went near the home, he heard Uthmaan(Rad) scolding the servant for making the wick of the lamp too thick & thereby wasting oil.
    this sahabi returned to Rasullullah (SAW) without asking Haz Uthmaan for assistance since he felt that someone who apparently did not have sufficient oil for his own use could not possibly be able to assist him.
    when Rasullullah (SAW) was informed of the incident, he sent the sahabi back & reassured him that he would receive the assistance he sought from Haz Uthmaan(rad)

    we are far from them in terms of piety & level of imaan but we see fit to indulge ourselves in buying expensive things that are not necessary
    for many of us, our entire lives revolve around the pursuit & acquiring of wealth

    some of us are very fortunate that Allah ta'ala has blessed us with sources of income where we dont have to spend much time to earn sufficient to lead a decent life
    but you will still find that if the opportunity is there to make more money, we will never leave it & then think it as a sign of Allahs love for us.
    not realising that wealth is a big test.

    after all we will be questioned about how we earned the wealth-how many of Allah ta'ala commands we violated to earn it
    and how we spent the wealth-

    if we adopt the attitude that "its mine, i worked for it & can spend it as i please & nobody can tell me what to do etc.."
    then we have only ourselves to blame if we end up being punished for this on Yawmul Qiyaamah.


    and Allah ta'ala knows best
    jazakallah
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mundo View Post
    Salaam

    I agree with the OP's concept of extravagance.

    However, there are wider issues to consider. Something may be within a person's means and not extravagant but it could be fall within wasteful spending or riya (showing-off) which also exists in the community.

    E.g. Car is a necessity. Some people can afford a Honda Jazz, some can afford a porche let them buy a porche .. fair enough no issues there. But, if an arab can afford a million dollar BMW studded with diamonds according to the OP's definition that is not extravagant because he can afford it. But islimically, that may be wasteful (is wasteful imo) and have riya issues.

    The "having a means" is a valid concept but not the be all and end all. You have to consider whether something is a necessity purchase and not a purchase for the sake of a purchase, Is it more than a person needs? e.g. buying a 10 bedroom mansion for 2 people to live in. Am I spending this to show people how wealthy I am? etc etc.

    Islam teaches balance and reasonableness and a person, no matter how rich must stay within a certain degree of reason. Which, more often than not people don't.
    I generally agree with you. ANY wealth that is acquired with the purpose of distracting oneself from Allah and/or for the purpose of riya then thats not permissible.

    But just like a kitted up, diamonde, BMW can distract you from Allah and can result in riya in ones heart.

    So can the old battered up honda civic.

    Wasteful can mean many things...wasting bath water or adding some power wheelies to your car.

    Like I mentioned in another thread - we all have different strengths and challenges. Just like how one person can't control his anger, no matter how hard he tries...another person can be insulted in public but still manage to keep his cool...one man can work amongst women who are covered from head to toe and still have indecent thoughts about them...another person may work amongst scantily clad women but find it easy to lower his gaze.

    Similarly, one can be blessed with immense wealth, and it doesnt lead to riya or effect his relationship with God....another can be on minimum wage and still walk about with a swagger.

    I know many wealthy people...some of whom I didnt know that they were wealthy, until I visited their home. They were some of the most pious and down to earth people I knew.

    Oh, and in regards to a larger house...I heard a scholar mention this hadith on the same topic (taken from my notes)...

    "There are three things that are important for happiness: a righteous wife, a spacious home, and a sound means of transportation"

    And what is 'spacious' to one, may not be 'spacious' to another. Its not about need. Again, relative.

    (some hadiths, don't mention wife and mention good neighbour...other hadiths mention that there are four things for happiness and add 'good neighbour'.
    Last edited by LondonGal; 12-01-12 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    salaams to all

    The prophet said: "Four things bring one joy: a righteous wife, a spacious house, a pious neighbor and a comfortable riding animal." (Reported by Al-Hakim, Abu-Nu`aym and Al-Bayhaqi)

    WHAT IS THE GOODNESS OF THE DUNYA
    a) PIOUS WIFE
    b) A SPACIOUS HOME
    c) RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION
    d) PIOUS NEIGHBOR

    note-no mention of designer labels anywhere.

    and Allah ta'ala knows best
    jazakallah
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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by isawab_user View Post
    Bear in mind that it is prudent to display wealth when the circumstances are right.
    For instance, you wouldnt want to opulently dressed while people around you are in tattered clothes - that's an extreme example, but I am sure you get the drift.
    Good point.

    At the same time, (from a lecture)

    According to Imam Ghazzali - one of the most acceptable forms of riya is to wear nicer clothes outside the house, compared to inside the house to preserve your standing amongst people (i.e.if I was in smelly, grubby clothes all day whilst I was cleaning and cooking - but before leaving the house, I don a nice, clean abayah).

    (but this doesnt justify, looking slobby for husband and family - but making more effort for friends and strangers)

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    I generally agree with you. ANY wealth that is acquired with the purpose of distracting oneself from Allah and/or for the purpose of riya then thats not permissible.

    But just like a kitted up, diamonde, BMW can distract you from Allah and can result in riya in ones heart.

    So can the old battered up honda civic.

    Wasteful can mean many things...wasting bath water or adding some power wheelies to your car.

    Like I mentioned in another thread - we all have different strengths and challenges. Just like how one person can't control his anger, no matter how hard he tries...another person can be insulted in public but still manage to keep his cool...one man can work amongst women who are covered from head to toe and still have indecent thoughts about them...another person may work amongst scantily clad women but find it easy to lower his gaze.

    Similarly, one can be blessed with immense wealth, and it doesnt lead to riya or effect his relationship with God....another can be on minimum wage and still walk about with a swagger.

    I know many wealthy people...some of whom I didnt know that they were wealthy, until I visited their home. They were some of the most pious and down to earth people I knew.

    Oh, and in regards to a larger house...I heard a scholar mention this hadith on the same topic (taken from my notes)...

    "There are three things that are important for happiness: a righteous wife, a spacious home, and a sound means of transportation"

    And what is 'spacious' to one, may not be 'spacious' to another. Its not about need. Again, relative.

    (some hadiths, don't mention wife and mention good neighbour...other hadiths mention that there are four things for happiness and add 'good neighbour'.
    Even 'relative' has its limits.


    Also, just as a side note. Being given wealth is a grave trial by Allah and leads many to misguidance and sin. There is a hadith on the day of Judgement poor people will thank Allah that they were not given wealth or status of authority when they see the rich people.

    And, when Prophet SAW was raised in Makkah the vast majority of people who accepted the deen were the poor. Most of the rich were those who opposed him and used their wealth against him. Even today people's wealth is a source of misguidance to them and they ironically say "Allah has been kind to us". The same trend today.

    Splashing your cash just because you can has its downfalls.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mundo View Post
    Even 'relative' has its limits.


    Also, just as a side note. Being given wealth is a grave trial by Allah and leads many to misguidance and sin. There is a hadith on the day of Judgement poor people will thank Allah that they were not given wealth or status of authority when they see the rich people.

    And, when Prophet SAW was raised in Makkah the vast majority of people who accepted the deen were the poor. Most of the rich were those who opposed him and used their wealth against him. Even today people's wealth is a source of misguidance to them and they ironically say "Allah has been kind to us". The same trend today.

    Splashing your cash just because you can has its downfalls.
    Agreed.

    Wealth can be a trial for many.

    Many things are a trial..and God knows best based on peoples nature, what trial they would be able to deal with.

    In the same way, some people are poor, cos its a mercy from Allah to them....just like how some people are sick...cos in health they may have been further away from Allah.

    The people I know who are wealthy (only those I know personally) have funded whole hospitals, orphans, schools etc with their money..

    One relative, opened up a school attached to a Mosque where children become hafidh of Quran, in a third world country...and now that shes passed away. The way she spent her money is hopefully benefiting her.

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by LondonGal View Post
    Agreed.

    Wealth can be a trial for many.

    Many things are a trial..and God knows best based on peoples nature, what trial they would be able to deal with.

    In the same way, some people are poor, cos its a mercy from Allah to them....just like how some people are sick...cos in health they may have been further away from Allah.

    The people I know who are wealthy (only those I know personally) have funded whole hospitals, orphans, schools etc with their money..

    One relative, opened up a school attached to a Mosque where children become hafidh of Quran, in a third world country...and now that shes passed away. The way she spent her money is hopefully benefiting her.

    well, charity is also relative as you say. If someone has £100 and gives £50 in charity he has effectively given 50% of his wealth. If someone has £10 million and gives £100k they have only given one percent of their wealth.

    Even though the millionaire donated more it the poor person may be rewarded more. Allah knows best what peoples situation and state of heart is. Shouldn't really make a call on it.

    Everyone's charity benefits them in the hereafter if done with the right intention.

    (Hehe couldnt help myself ))

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    Re: What is Extravagance in Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by mundo View Post
    well, charity is also relative as you say. If someone has £100 and gives £50 in charity he has effectively given 50% of his wealth. If someone has £10 million and gives £100k they have only given one percent of their wealth.

    Even though the millionaire donated more it the poor person may be rewarded more. Allah knows best what peoples situation and state of heart is. Shouldn't really make a call on it.

    Everyone's charity benefits them in the hereafter if done with the right intention.

    (Hehe couldnt help myself ))
    Def. Don't disagree with anything you've said.

    Of course, if a rich person who was worth millions only gave a few thousands in charity, he wouldnt have got as much reward as the person who only had £100, but gave £50 to charity.

    BUT, as you've pointed out yourself. If the rich man's charity was more sincere than the poorer persons charity, then it doesnt matter if the poorer persons charity was 50% as all actions are weighed by their intention.


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