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  1. #1
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    the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    I am currently reading the biography of Sheikh Muhammad Yusuf Al Kandahlawi (in Arabic) about his life & efforts in Dawah etc. subhanAllah, do we have such examples in the Tableeghi Jamaat today? He was such a fine example, mashaAllah, how he cared less for food and more about Dawah and how he cared more about Qur'an & Sunnat than Fazaaile' Amaal book or any other such book.......
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Advice to the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh from one of the greatest Islamic scholar of the modern era.

    Shaykh al-Albaanee's advice to the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh
    (English translation of a lecture given by the Shaykh)

    "All praise is for Allaah, and prayers and salutations upon the Prophet Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)"

    Question: Where do the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh go wrong? What is the remedy for their situation?

    Response: The remedy is Knowledge, as we have always advised them. Instead of going out for this "khurooj", which has no basis in the Sunnah, whereas they make it a Sunnah to be followed. Rather they should sit in the masaajid and learn the hadeeth and fiqh and the manner of reading the Qur.aan correctly as it was sent down - [since many of them who speak, and this is a wicked practice which they have established for the people (in that) they encourage them to speak -] and then (they) are not able to correctly read the aayah, not to mention the ahaadeeth of the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) - [since he explains the aayah in a way that causes him to fall under the saying that occurs in the knowledge of the Sciences of hadeeth ('Ilm Usoolil-hadeeth): "That the student must learn the "Arabic language so that when he reads a hadeeth he does not introduce mistakes into it, but reads it as the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), said it"] - and if not then he falls under the saying of the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), "He who reports me that which I did not say, then let him take his place in the Fire"

    Even when the Book is in front of him and he reads from it - [then he even cannot read it properly even though the Book is fully vowel pointed] - but even so those whom we hear in many of the masaajid cannot read the hadeeth of the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), properly, - not to mention the being able to explain them correctly, and not to mention explaining the rulings contained therein - whilst those sitting and listening are in dire need of this fiqh taken from the Sunnah.

    Therefore the cure for those people is for them to return to the circles of knowledge in the masaajid and find a scholar who has knowledge of the different readings (Qiraa'aat), knowledge of Tajweed, knowledge of fiqh, knowledge of hadeeth and knowledge of Tafseer. - so that they can learn. Then, after that if any of them becomes able to call the people - then he has to call the people. However, they call themselves, "Jamaa'ah ad-Da'wah" and the "da'wah" is the call to Islaam, 'the group of spreading the religion', but this religion of Islaam has to be understood by the caller so that he may able to spread it correctly and properly - and if not then - ((the one who does not have something cannot give it)) and this is a well known truth.

    Therefore we advise them, since in many of them we find sincerity of purpose, and that they are active in da'wah, however, what was said of old of them was true, as follows: "Sa'd brought them in - leading them: That is not how you bring in camels, O Sa'd!)): ((That is not how you give da'wah to Islaam O Jamaa'ah)) da'wah to Islaam requires scholars who are able - especially if they go out from their lands to the lands of Kufr and misguidance, such as Europe and America - as over there problems and doubts come to them which you would not even think about in the Muslim lands - so where will they find the answer to them - he who does not have something cannot give it.

    I believe that they - Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh, if they really do wish to spread the religion of Islaam - then it is not enough that they are students, rather they must be scholars and mujtahids - taking Islaamic rulings from the Book and the Sunnah. Why? Because they go to a land where the habits, customs, usages, and problems are different to ours - so where will they get the answers from? They have no answer - rather one of them may mistakenly think that he has some knowledge - and therefore give Fatwa's - just as the Companions gave Fatwas to the injured man and killed him - they gave Fatwa without knowledge and so erred and led into error, just as the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), said in the hadeeth recorded by al-Bukhaaree and Muslim, "verily Allaah does not take away the knowledge by removing it from the hearts of the scholars, but He takes the knowledge away by taking away the scholars - until there does not remain any scholars, so the people take ignorant ones as their leaders - and they are asked and give judgment without knowledge." This is exactly what is happening these days - that many people give fatwas without knowledge and therefore go astray and lead others astray - therefore for those who wish to give da'wah - it is not enough that they are students, rather they must be scholars - deriving rulings from the Book and Sunnah - and if not, then they are not able to convey the message of Islaam, particularly in those foreign lands.

    I end this talk with a point noted by a famous scholar of Andalus - Ibn Rushd al-Maalikee - he gave an example for the mujtahid scholar and the muqallid scholar - a very good example - saying, "The example of the mujtahid and the muqallid is the example of the person who sells leather socks and the one who makes them. So a man comes to the seller of leather socks and asks him for a particular size [and maybe he wants an unusual size, small but wide] and he doesn't find this size amongst his stock - so he has to go to the maker of the leather socks and say I want a leather sock of such and such a size - and he makes it. This is the example of the mujtahid and the other one, the muqallid (blind follower)."

    So where will they find answers required in that land? Therefore we advise them strongly - since they have sincerity and feeling for Islaam, and desire to spread it amongst the people - to seek knowledge. There is no other way than that; after that, perhaps, Allaah will grant them that knowledge and open the door of true da'wah to them, and if not, then, the one who does not possess something cannot simply give it to others.

    Our way, is that "the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)", and this is the text agreed upon by all Jamaa'ahs amongst Muslims throughout the world. No one says, "The best of guidance is the guidance of Abu Haneefah, or Maalik, or ash-Shaafi'ee, or Ahmad", and yet, all of them hold that they are people of knowledge and excellence and that their purpose is to follow the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), and his way.

    Hence, all Muslims, irrespective of group or sect, agree upon this basic principle that "the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)". Despite this agreement there is still some difference with regard to how that is put into practice and in making this Prophetic truth a fact upon the face of this earth. It is here that they differ, and we have just discussed about what is knowledge, which is "what is commanded by Allaah and His Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)". There is also no disagreement about this fact. However, in practice today you hardly ever hear a scholar answer a question by saying, "Allaah Ta'aala says…." Or "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said...". Instead they say "so and so says…", and that is NOT knowledge. So what is important for the Muslims today is that they come together upon the principles - and these are agreed amongst them - and stick to them and not leave them on one side and we say, "The best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)".

    Then we also see, after that, that one person prays in a certain manner and another in a different way and another and so on…, and likewise in wudoo., fasting, Hajj etc. etc. Why? What is the reason? The only reason is that they have NOT followed the simple basic principle of "the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)" Why is this so? Because making this principle a reality in our religious life requires knowledge of what Allaah and His Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), says. In particular what is authentically reported from the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) and keeping away from that which is NOT authentic from him (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) - so where is this way, its method and application today?

    Then we return to the question and say, ((All of the Jamaa'ahs amongst the Muslims say (( the best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam))), but the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh and others - we do not particularise them alone since the problem is general - has their 'aqeedah become one - and they have been in existence for many years.

    So has the 'aqeedah of its members become a single 'aqeedah? Has their 'ibaadah (worship) become one? Etc. In my opinion the answer is "NO", since you will find amongst them, the Hanafee, the Shaafi'ee, the Maalikee, and the Hanbalee, just as you would find outside the Jamaa'ah, and so on in this way there is no difference between them and the other Jamaa'ahs. Likewise within Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh you will find people who lean towards the Book and the Sunnah as we have just explained. However, you do not find amongst them scholars who guide these (people) to the Book and the Sunnah. Instead, they rely upon any scholar who will explain to them what is in the Book and the Sunnah since they believe that it is the Qur.aan and the Sunnah that are to be acted upon. As for the great majority of them, they are not like that. The reason is that not all of them have that belief which would unite them if they possessed it. Therefore, you see them do many things at variance with the Sunnah. Eg; (this thing) which they alone do and have particulate themselves with, from amongst all of the various different Jamaa'ahs.

    This is what they call "khurooj" - going out in the way of Allaah - meaning going out with the Jamaa'ah to various towns, cities, lands and even non-Muslim countries. So we always remind them that going out in the way of Allaah is a good thing since the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said "He who takes a path seeking knowledge. Allaah makes it easy for him a path to Paradise". However, if they believe, along with us, that the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), then (we ask), "had he (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) and his noble companions used to go out in tens in that way to give da'wah of Islaam?" ((INTERRUPTION)) And the people in the time of the Messenger (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) were in greater need of knowledge since they were surrounded by the unbelievers. So he, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), would send a knowledgeable one and not send ten or twenty along with him who did not know anything. Rather they would learn from the people of knowledge in their own lands.

    So I am sure you all know that he, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), sent Mu'aadh Ibn Jabal (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu), alone, Abu Mousa (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) alone, and likewise 'Alee (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu), Abu 'Ubaydah (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) and Dihyah (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) etc. etc. all singly. We do not find at any time in his blessed life that he, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), sent along with a scholar, people who were not scholars - to Yemen. What was in Yemen but Shirk and Kufr, and consider, there was need in the time of the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).

    Therefore we say that the foundation of da'wah is Knowledge - Knowledge of the Book and the Sunnah - and I would draw your attention to the fact that despite being around many years they still do not have a single unifying 'aqeedah nor a single unifying worship, nor commonality in their prayers. So what is it you will convey to the people while you have not yet conveyed it to your ownselves? Begin with your ownselves first, then those around you. What will the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh convey if they themselves have not still agreed in 'aqeedah? As far as I know, Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh does not give any importance to the affairs of 'aqeedah. Indeed, many of them state openly that, "we do not go into the affairs of 'aqeedah since they cause differences amongst the Muslims", nor do they take care to correct their worship and Prayers and make that in accordance with the Sunnah. So he who does not possess something cannot give it to another.

    They call to Islaam. What is Islaam? Prayer!, Fasting!, Zakaah! Etc. If a questioner comes and asks, "How did the Messenger of Allaah, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), perform Salaah?" to one of their callers (Da'ee), not just one of their common followers, then he cannot answer. Why? Because from the beginning, from their first principles, they are NOT taught to, first of all, make sure that they are upon following the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), of Allaah. Either he will be restricted to a particular madhhab or following a particular Soofee order - about which some Soofee's speak openly and say, "The number of ways to Allaah are like the number of created beings". So, perhaps, this Shaykh belongs to one of those Soofee orders about which the scholars are agreed that nothing of them ever existed in the first three generations after the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), whose excellence was testified to and Allaah Himself says:

    {Verily, this is My Way, leading Straight: follow it: follow not (other) paths: they will scatter you about from His (great) Path}, [Soorah al-An'aam, Aayah 153].

    And so if the head of the callers who established the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh; he himself follows a particular madhhab, blindly - Hanafee or Shafi'ee or any other; And he himself follows one of these Soofee orders - then what is this Islaam that they call to? Prayer only? We often hear and know that many people who had not used to pray have started to pray - we do not deny that. We know many extreme Soofee's in all the lands of Islaam, and particularly Syria, where they have lived for many years - Shaykhs of the Soofee's who devour the people's wealth and live upon the hunger of their followers - and yet people who were formerly drunkards become their followers and begin to pray. But is that what is wanted? That a person becomes like the example mentioned by the Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), "The example of the scholar who does NOT act on his Knowledge is that of a lamp which gives light to the people and burns itself away." That is not what is wanted. What is wanted is that the Muslim gives da'wah having a certain Knowledge of his religion - and where does he get that knowledge from? As we have said: Either he himself becomes a scholar by studying the Book and the Sunnah or he takes the Book and the Sunnah from one who is a scholar of that. We do not find that amongst the followers of Jamaa'at - Ut-Tableegh - and for all these years - and likewise for the Ikhwanul Muslimeen - and they have not come together in their thinking - so within the Ikhwan you find those who adhere to the way of the Pious Predecessors, the Soofee, the follower of a madhhab, and in some lands even the Shee'ah - we know that from their long history - what Islaam is it that they call to?

    And know after mentioning their shortcomings - I advise them - that instead of going out for this "Khurooj" which was, firstly, not found in the time of the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), and secondly, that it is organized in a way that has no basis in Islaam - three days, four days etc. - Instead of that "Khurooj", which did not exist in the first and best period of Islaam, sit in the masaajid and study the Book of Allaah, either by yourselves if you are from the former group and if not, then, by asking the people of Knowledge if you do not know.

    And we often hear them begin their lesson with the saying: "Our success lies in following the Sunnah". Fine, but if you ask, "What is the Sunnah in the Prayer that you have just performed?". He doesn't know. The Imaam sits after the prayer, opens "Riyaadh as-Saaliheen" - and what a good book it is - he reads two or three ahaadeeth and does not explain them or make their meaning clear - reading only the text. Then the people go away not knowing anything. Why? Because the Shaykh didn't explain. Why? Because he doesn't have something, hence he cannot give it.

    So, instead of wasting time reading ahaadeeth which they do not understand - let one or two of them out of the thousands seek knowledge - tafseer, hadeeth, language etc. Then, let them call the people to Islaam upon clear guidance. The Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh in this form, what do they call to? To Islaam, fine. Then what is the 'aqeedah that a Muslim has to have? Is it the Ash'aree 'aqeedah, the Maatureedee 'aqeedah or the 'aqeedah of Ahlul hadeeth? Each is upon that which he found his father, mother, grandfather - or from al-Azhar or the latest Islaamic University etc. Otherwise his mind is completely empty, neither having this nor that - what is the reason?

    Firstly, it is not part of their system that they teach their Jamaa'ah the 'aqeedah.

    Secondly, it is not part of their program to teach the people what is Sunnah and what is Bid'ah - and the Arab Muslim poet of old said: "I learnt what was bad not for its own sake but to avoid it: and he who does not know bad from good falls into it." And this poetic wisdom is taken from the hadeeth of Hudhayfah Ibn al-Yamaanee (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) who said about himself: "The people used to ask Allaah's Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), about the good. And I used to ask about the bad fearing it would come to me…"

    And as the poet said: "Sa'd brought in [the camels], leading them: O Sa'd - that is not how you bring camels in."

    If you call to Islaam - you have to know what it is, beginning with Eemaan and perhaps the brothers will recall the hadeeth: "That a man came to the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) with very white clothes and black hair... [the hadeeth of Jibreel concerning Islaam, Eemaan and Ihsaan…]…"

    Eemaan in Allaah - I have never heard any of our brothers explain the word "Eemaan in Allaah" - of which it is possible to write volumes about, and it is sufficient for us that Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah wrote a whole book called "Kitaabul-Eemaan" - and the muhaddithoon (scholars of hadeeth) of old wrote such books such as Ibn Abee Shaybah and Abu 'Ubayd al-Qaasim as-Sallaam - all of them writing books on Eemaan.

    What is "Eemaan in Allaah? The Muslims believe in Allaah, the Christians believe in Allaah, the Jews believe in Allaah, everyone but the atheists believe in Allaah. But each one's belief in Allaah is different from the other. So what is that Eemaan (in Allaah) which is the first condition of Eemaan? This topic is never studied. This Eemaan contains the belief in the Oneness of Allaah's self; it contains the Oneness of Allaah's worship - that He alone is worshipped; it contains Allaah's Uniqueness in his Attributes.

    Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh do not speak about these at all - so then, what O Brother is this Islaam that you call people to? And where are you with regard to his (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) sayings:

    ((Pray as you see me praying)) and ((Take your rites of Hajj from me for I do not know - perhaps I will not meet you after this year)).

    Then, our advice is that some - not all thousands or millions of them - but tens or thousands of them should obtain knowledge of the religion who then can guide them to the following of Allaah's Book and the ahaadeeth of Allaah's messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).

    As for the going out - then no one should go out except for the scholar - as shown in the guidance of Allaah's Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam). As for spreading the religion - then each person passes on what he knows - but that is not to be in ordered form that people from Amman leave their families and children and go to Europe and America. Let them remain at home and learn Allaah's religion as did the Companions of the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam). We again repeat, :The best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)."

    Where are those who best understand this rule? Without a doubt they were the Companions of the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), then those who came after them, then those who came even after them. Fourteen centuries have passed and whatever we might say about changing times or methods etc. - we are now in the 1400's and never in these 1400 years did a group of scholars go out in hundreds in this way, travelling through the lands to give da'wah. Why did they not do that? Therefore the scholars say, "And every good is in the following of those who came before, and every evil lies in the innovations of the latter people."

    No one will argue about giving da'wah since Allaah Ta'aala says:

    {Let there arise out of you a group of people…}, [Soorah Aal-'Imraan, Aayah 104], but the problem lies in the method of da'wah and the way it is given, and what is introduced into that which had not been used to be in the time of the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), and that one having knowledge goes out - why does he go out? To learn! Brother, stay in your homes, the masjid is next door, sit there and learn from the scholars.

    <INTERRUPTION> from someone in the audience asking what is wrong with going out to the masaajid.

    O beloved Brother, may Allaah be Pleased with you - this is NOT the point of discussion - do not enter us into issues which are not related to where the problem lies…, I say there is no problem - but the ones nearer to you have more right, your family, your neighbors etc. then to whom will you call? Have you taught your family the correct 'aqeedah? And taught them how the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), used to pray? Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh do NOT learn or teach how the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), used to pray and make Hajj etc. So as a member of Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh have you taught that which is obligatory to your family whom you live with? They are the closest of people to you. So you leave them alone and go to another town and say to me "what is wrong?" - I say there is nothing wrong, but start with yourselves, then those closest to you. Do not leave your land - going here and there - he who does not have something cannot give it.

    We in ash-Shaam (Syria), have an example which they mention - they say: "That there was a Kurdish man, zealous for Islaam, but knowing very little about it - he met a Jew on the road one day and said to him ((become a Muslim or I will kill you)), so he replied; ((I will become a Muslim - what do I say?)) He said: ((By Allaah, I don't know!))"

    What benefit is this type of enthusiasm - he doesn't even know what to say to the Jew about Islaam. So we say, - that before this enthusiasm - sit and learn what Islaam is - then spread it amongst the people in the best way. And this is enough of a mention of the short-comings of Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh. And we do not wish to go further into the details since that requires research of their history - and what is correct and what is not - but that which is very clear. Is that this "Khurooj" in groups who hardly know anything about Islaam?

    <INTERRUPTION: This accusation you make..., that you say that they don't pray in the way the Prophet, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam)>

    Brother, it is not an accusation - It is something we see. <Continuation of INTERRUPTION>

    Then as I have said to you - if we do find someone amongst Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh praying according to the Sunnah, then this Sunnah has not come from them but from outside. So, in this case you are like the person mentioned in the Quran:

    {And one of her household saw (this) and bore witness, (thus)…}, [Soorah Yoosuf, Aayah 26].

    Al-Hamdu-Lillaah, and you pray according to the book, Sifatus-Salaatin-Nabee (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), - why don't you pray according to a book produced by Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh? Because they haven't produced any such book. Then - we return to what is most important - to 'aqeedah - so do you say that we accuse them of not giving importance to 'aqeedah? Well, they themselves clearly state that - they do not call to 'aqeedah, nor to the Book and the Sunnah - everyone remains upon his madhhab…

    I say, as long as the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh want to spread Islaam and have this enthusiasm - then the Sunnah must come from them - not have to be taken from other Jamaa'aha. I know them from Syria and from sitting with them, and I know them here….. so I am not ignorant of them, so that you say that I accuse them. Rather you accuse us of accusing them - but I speak based on knowledge…

    So, in brief, with regard to the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh - we are thankful for their enthusiasm but not for the way in which they show it. This enthusiasm has to have knowledge attached to it - and knowledge as has preceded is "what Allaah and His Messenger, (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam), say". This hadeeth is authentic. Is there any scholar amongst them who is able to say that this hadeeth is weak so that he can be upon clear guidance in his religion? They do not have such a one to this day. Why? Because their way is at variance with the correct way:

    {Verily, this is My Way, leading Straight: follow it: follow not (other) paths}, [Soorah al-An'aam, Aayah 153].

    ..........
    Translated by: Maaz Qureshi

  3. #3
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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    ^^^^

    yes the founders of the Tableeghi Jamaat had good knowledge of Qur'an & Sunnah.......i think they were even scholars......

    unfortunately i dont think it is the case today........
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Today, you have the likes of Maulana Saad Khandalwi in India and Haji Abdul Wahhab Saheb in Pakistan. Very erudite men. At the same time, extremely simple people.

    It's amazing how a person as simple as Maulana Saad is basically overseeing and advising Dawah efforts in over 150+ countries, subhanAllah. Not with social networking sites, fancy flashcards, glitzy websites, expensive double weekend seminars...but a successful effort that is in nearly every country of the world consisting of everyone from the poor village farmer in central Africa to the corporate CEO residing in Silicon Valley.

    Does a person like Maulana Saad who can be considered an elder of this effort, have body guards, a big mansion, nice car....no. From what I've heard, the door to his house is in the form of a simple curtain. And this is a man living in the world today.
    The Sahaba (radiAllahu anhum) used to cling to the Sunnah just because it was Sunnah
    Today we abandon the Sunnah, just because it's Sunnah.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaanSeeker View Post
    Today, you have the likes of Maulana Saad Khandalwi in India and Haji Abdul Wahhab Saheb in Pakistan. Very erudite men. At the same time, extremely simple people.

    It's amazing how a person as simple as Maulana Saad is basically overseeing and advising Dawah efforts in over 150+ countries, subhanAllah. Not with social networking sites, fancy flashcards, glitzy websites, expensive double weekend seminars...but a successful effort that is in nearly every country of the world consisting of everyone from the poor village farmer in central Africa to the corporate CEO residing in Silicon Valley.

    Does a person like Maulana Saad who can be considered an elder of this effort, have body guards, a big mansion, nice car....no. From what I've heard, the door to his house is in the form of a simple curtain. And this is a man living in the world today.
    is Maulana Saad Kandahlawi related to Sheikh Muhammad Yusuf?
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    is Maulana Saad Kandahlawi related to Sheikh Muhammad Yusuf?
    Maulana Saad is the grandson of Shaykh Yusuf, if I'm not mistaken.
    The Sahaba (radiAllahu anhum) used to cling to the Sunnah just because it was Sunnah
    Today we abandon the Sunnah, just because it's Sunnah.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaanSeeker View Post
    Maulana Saad is the grandson of Shaykh Yusuf, if I'm not mistaken.
    yes he is. and shaykh zubair is son of Maulana Inam ul hasan, who was cousin of shaykh Yusuf (RA)
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Maulana Saad is from the same family. His father I believe was the brother of Maulana Yusuf Khandalwi. The guy is a dark horse mashaAllah. He regularly goes through Hayatus Sahabah in Nizamudeen Markaz which is one of the greatest works of Maulana Yusuf RA.


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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    subhanAllah.

    at OP; there are actually so many ulema worth the name involved in the effort...in india, pakistan, england etc... no doubt the effort is not what it was before but mashaAllah its efforts are still bringing so many back to the deen...
    Maulana Saad
    Maulana Zubair
    Maulana Ahmed laad
    Maulana Ibrahim Dewla
    Maulana Tariq Jameel,
    and so many more. Unfortunately you will never get an entire group of Muslims worth the name who sacrifice so much for the deen yet we still have those people amongst us....
    as for fadhail amaal, i think people who misunderstand the effort create this hype about it how it is over revered and such, those who know of the effort truly do not act so.

    i have read the biography and subhanAllah it is amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaanSeeker View Post
    Today, you have the likes of Maulana Saad Khandalwi in India and Haji Abdul Wahhab Saheb in Pakistan. Very erudite men. At the same time, extremely simple people.

    It's amazing how a person as simple as Maulana Saad is basically overseeing and advising Dawah efforts in over 150+ countries, subhanAllah. Not with social networking sites, fancy flashcards, glitzy websites, expensive double weekend seminars...but a successful effort that is in nearly every country of the world consisting of everyone from the poor village farmer in central Africa to the corporate CEO residing in Silicon Valley.

    Does a person like Maulana Saad who can be considered an elder of this effort, have body guards, a big mansion, nice car....no. From what I've heard, the door to his house is in the form of a simple curtain. And this is a man living in the world today.
    The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
    (Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Yusuf)
    In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Emelianenko View Post
    Maulana Saad is from the same family. His father I believe was the brother of Maulana Yusuf Khandalwi. The guy is a dark horse mashaAllah. He regularly goes through Hayatus Sahabah in Nizamudeen Markaz which is one of the greatest works of Maulana Yusuf RA.
    If I'm not mistaken, Maulana Saad's father was Maulana Harun (rahimullah) and Maulana Harun's father was Maulana Yusuf (rahimullah). And Maulana Yusuf's father was the esteemed Maulana Ilyas (rahimullah).
    The Sahaba (radiAllahu anhum) used to cling to the Sunnah just because it was Sunnah
    Today we abandon the Sunnah, just because it's Sunnah.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaanSeeker View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, Maulana Saad's father was Maulana Harun (rahimullah) and Maulana Harun's father was Maulana Yusuf (rahimullah). And Maulana Yusuf's father was the esteemed Maulana Ilyas (rahimullah).
    lol it goes something like that. Irrespective, they all from the Kandhelwi family and MashaAllah, Allah swt has took a lot of work from them.


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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    I used to sit in the gathering when arabs come to meet sh.saad, they are just crazy about sh.Saad, mashaAllah.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaanSeeker View Post
    Today, you have the likes of Maulana Saad Khandalwi in India and Haji Abdul Wahhab Saheb in Pakistan. Very erudite men. At the same time, extremely simple people.

    It's amazing how a person as simple as Maulana Saad is basically overseeing and advising Dawah efforts in over 150+ countries, subhanAllah. Not with social networking sites, fancy flashcards, glitzy websites, expensive double weekend seminars...but a successful effort that is in nearly every country of the world consisting of everyone from the poor village farmer in central Africa to the corporate CEO residing in Silicon Valley.

    Does a person like Maulana Saad who can be considered an elder of this effort, have body guards, a big mansion, nice car....no. From what I've heard, the door to his house is in the form of a simple curtain. And this is a man living in the world today.

    Mashallah. Like an example of the Salaf al Saaliheen. However much the mumblers may mumble, Tabligh will always remain no 1.
    http://drabutamim.blogspot.com/2011/06/tabligh-is-no1.html

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by KeeKee View Post
    as for fadhail amaal, i think people who misunderstand the effort create this hype about it how it is over revered and such, those who know of the effort truly do not act so.
    sorry but fadhail amaal does have some extremely dubious beliefs.......who was it's author? ashraf ali thanvi?
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by abu_tamim View Post

    Mashallah. Like an example of the Salaf al Saaliheen. However much the mumblers may mumble, Tabligh will always remain no 1.
    http://drabutamim.blogspot.com/2011/...gh-is-no1.html
    very weak writing IMO.......

    the person is openly admitting that tabligh does not offer the proper knowledge, just the desire!!! how can someone call others to Islam just with desire????
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    sorry but fadhail amaal does have some extremely dubious beliefs.......who was it's author? ashraf ali thanvi?
    Fadhaa'il A'maal was written by Shaykh Al Hadith Maulana Zakariyya Khandalwi, one of the great scholars of his time.

    The book doesn't necessarily express any beliefs rather it is used as a motivation for the believer to practice the Deen.
    The Sahaba (radiAllahu anhum) used to cling to the Sunnah just because it was Sunnah
    Today we abandon the Sunnah, just because it's Sunnah.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaanSeeker View Post
    Fadhaa'il A'maal was written by Shaykh Al Hadith Maulana Zakariyya Khandalwi, one of the great scholars of his time.

    The book doesn't necessarily express any beliefs rather it is used as a motivation for the believer to practice the Deen.
    i am surprsied he wrote this book...!!! why a person needs to write strange stories with strange beliefs to motivate a Muslim??? some stories are even borderline shirk!!!!! why?
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    i am surprsied he wrote this book...!!! why a person needs to write strange stories with strange beliefs to motivate a Muslim??? some stories are even borderline shirk!!!!! why?
    the problem is a lot of this has been taken out of context or lost in translation.

    you should read his autobiogrphy to find out how strict he was on the sunnah. in no way would he ever promote anything bidah or false aqeeda.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

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    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    the problem is a lot of this has been taken out of context or lost in translation.

    you should read his autobiogrphy to find out how strict he was on the sunnah. in no way would he ever promote anything bidah or false aqeeda.
    that is why i said i was surprised he wrote such a book......there are weird stories in it and how can you say they were lost in translation or taken out of context!!!

    i read this short booklet
    Fazaail-e-Aamaal - Inviting To Disbelief - CTI Research
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    you know the shaykhs position on bidah/shirk so this is where you use husn ad dhan and find out how these stories are not promoting shirk.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    you know the shaykhs position on bidah/shirk so this is where you use husn ad dhan and find out how these stories are not promoting shirk.
    I do Husn Ad Dhan with him Rehmatullahi Alahi but still why would someone write a book that would be read by many people among whom many would not have much knowledge to differentiate between bidah shirk etc.!!!!!!!!!!!! why not opt for the safe stories which are clear cut & are in full accordance to Qur'an & Sunnah?
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    I do Husn Ad Dhan with him Rehmatullahi Alahi but still why would someone write a book that would be read by many people among whom many would not have much knowledge to differentiate between bidah shirk etc.!!!!!!!!!!!! why not opt for the safe stories which are clear cut & are in full accordance to Qur'an & Sunnah?
    i think that's a valid point. not sure i know that answer to that.

    on a personal level, if i had read those stories without knowledge, it would not mean to me that it's ok to worship graves/dead or anything... because the emphasis TJ put on tawheed far exceeds these stories that are rarely read.

    one thing people need to realise, these are just motivational stories... not someting you wold derive any fiqh/aqeeda out of. any fiqh people are taught whilt in TJ is usually done by a qualified scholar (if available) or sometimes use a book called taleemul haq.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    i think that's a valid point. not sure i know that answer to that.

    on a personal level, if i had read those stories without knowledge, it would not mean to me that it's ok to worship graves/dead or anything... because the emphasis TJ put on tawheed far exceeds these stories that are rarely read.

    one thing people need to realise, these are just motivational stories... not someting you wold derive any fiqh/aqeeda out of. any fiqh people are taught whilt in TJ is usually done by a qualified scholar (if available) or sometimes use a book called taleemul haq.
    Asalamu Alaikum,

    I don't think some of the members are told this to begin with. I've known people who pass on the Hadith to others and that's how it spreads. I mean if I need motivation in the religion will I use non fictional stories or stories that are known to be sound? Our goal is to follow the footsteps of The Prophet(pbuh) as best as possible so some of these stories wouldnt help with our goal.

    I've seen some brothers who go instead use Riyyad us Saliheen.

    MashaAllah we all know the great dawah work that tableegh does. Since they have many new Muslims in their khurooj why present them with some of these false stories. The new Muslim doesn't know right from wrong unfortunately.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    on a personal level, if i had read those stories without knowledge, it would not mean to me that it's ok to worship graves/dead or anything... because the emphasis TJ put on tawheed far exceeds these stories that are rarely read.
    well not everyone thinks alike so the problem still exists.....

    for example the story of the man who cried for help to the Prophet and then a person came to him and said the Prophet came in his dream and asked him to help the person!!!

    a person might read such a story and derive that it is ok to ask help from the Prophet whenever in trouble!!! this is dangerous territory.........
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    well not everyone thinks alike so the problem still exists.....

    for example the story of the man who cried for help to the Prophet and then a person came to him and said the Prophet came in his dream and asked him to help the person!!!

    a person might read such a story and derive that it is ok to ask help from the Prophet whenever in trouble!!! this is dangerous territory.........
    i think this is to do with waseelah and the location of the grave of the Prophet and him being alive.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    i think this is to do with waseelah and the location of the grave of the Prophet and him being alive.
    not really, there is no question fo waseelah in the story, the man clearly says "o Prophet" or something of that sort......anyways, I think that a Muslim who does not have much knowledge should avoid this book......to be on the safe side....
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    double post
    Last edited by junaid123; 11-07-11 at 03:16 PM.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    for example the story of the man who cried for help to the Prophet and then a person came to him and said the Prophet came in his dream and asked him to help the person!!!

    a person might read such a story and derive that it is ok to ask help from the Prophet whenever in trouble!!! this is dangerous territory.........
    Actuelly such stories are mentioned by early arabic books too for example in ibn jawzi´s al wafa, ibn hajar and ibn kathir, you will find similar story. I dont know, i have never understood the things the way some brother brought infront to which might sound like bidah or shirk. but when a person read the book, in chapter wise, the aim is different.when you single out certain story, and read the story with 10 other stories, the message is totally different.
    Last edited by junaid123; 11-07-11 at 03:17 PM.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
    (Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Yusuf)
    In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    It is better not to read some one,s book because it will be some one else written and his ideas.
    Open your OWN BOOK (heart book) and start reading and you will gain which you can not gain from some one Else's book.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    very weak writing IMO.......

    the person is openly admitting that tabligh does not offer the proper knowledge, just the desire!!! how can someone call others to Islam just with desire????
    It is desire that leads to knowledge. Secondly the elders of Tabligh are major scholars themselves. 'Ulama who pass out from Deobandi Madarsahs in Indo_Pak_Bangla_UK go for 1 year in Jamaat immediately after. It is a myth spread by those who are jealous of the acceptance of the work of the Jamat.

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    not convincing at all.......especially the whole "abdaal" thing, they didnt provide a single Hadith about it but just mentioned names of some Sahabah!!! Also they didnt answer about the man meeting with Khidr, i mean how come almost every "wali" seems to have met Khidr???!!! while we dont hear that from the Sahabah meeting with him and having discussions with him!!!! strange indeed....

    also about the "kashf" issue, i would like to read where did the Sahabah sit and start talking about details of paradise & hell & what they saw!!!!!!! and did a Sahabi saw someone in hell and then managed to get him out of it!!!!!!!??? come on people, lets be reasonable here...

    those stories in fazaile amaal are not for everyont that is for sure.......it can be misleading for many.......and i dont like the tone of the reply in that link, as if anyone who objects to somethings wrong in the book has to be an enemy of Islam or something!!!!

    this is one of my main problems with tasawwuf of today, they make up a chain that does not exist, for example http://www.tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm
    did Abu Bakr may Allah be pleased with him give Ijazah/Bayah to Salman al Farsi may Allah be pleased with him?

    what are the basis for such a chain/silsilah?

    they focus on the Khidr character so much........

    then they make up this "Abdaal" thing..............why dont they focus on authentic narrations or stories of the Sahabah etc. more? why go into the dark territory when Qur'an & Sunnah & way of the Sahabah is full of light & more than enough for a Muslim to increase his Iman and purify himself inshaAllah......

    also read these stories:
    See Fazail Hajj (Urdu page 138, Tamil page 225)
    "When you see the green dome then it should be with awe and reverence and you should take care of the honour of the Huzoor and reflect that in that pure dome is he who is the best of creation, leader of the prophets and virtuous the Angels. The place of the holy grave is superior than any other place and that place which touches the holy body of the Huzoor is superior to the Ka'bah, superior to Arsh, superior to Kursi in fact superior than everything in the heavens and earth."

    See Fazail Hajj (Urdu page 141, Tamil page 224)
    "When you visit anyone's grave, you should proceed from the direction of the feet because if Allah has given the dead the power of Kashf then it is easy for him to see you because when the dead turns to his right in his grave then his sight falls towards your feet. And when anyone approaches the grave from the head side of the dead then the dead has trouble and difficulty in seeing you"
    Last edited by tayyiboon; 12-07-11 at 08:30 AM.
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    i have been told that many Tableeghis are naqshbandi sufis, so i have this simple question i am looking for an answer to,

    did Abu Bakr may Allah be pleased with him give Ijazah/Bayah to Salman al Farsi may Allah be pleased with him?

    what are the basis for such a chain/silsilah?

    http://www.tasawwuf.org/shaykh/silsilah.htm
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    not convincing at all.
    what you say about this bro?

    Once during the era of Hadhrat Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu) there was a drought. A person came to the grave of Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and said, ‘O Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam)! Seek rain for your Ummah because they are about to be destroyed.’ This person saw in a vision a voice telling him, ‘Go to Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu), convey salaams to him and inform him that very soon it will rain.’ Also, tell him to be alert and watchful. The man went to Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu) and related this to him. Hadhrat Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu) began to cry and thereafter he said, ‘O my Lord! I do not leave out except that which I am incapable of doing.’

    Subhaanallah, look at the abovementioned incident. The objector has quoted various incidents of this nature from Fadhaail-e-Aamal and thereafter claims that this is ‘grave worship’ and further he claims, ‘Reading such stories from Fadhaail-e-Aamal to them will play havoc with their beliefs and further corrupt their religion.’ Will the objector then make his concocted deduction here too and say that this story promotes grave worship? look, this was done in the time of such a great Sahaabi like Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu). There were so many other Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum) around at that time. Even when this was brought to the awareness of Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhu), neither himself nor anyone else had any objections. When Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhu) had no objections, who are we to do so?

    Now, let us have a look at the source of this incident. Firstly, this incident is recorded in Dalaail-un-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi (vol.7 pg.47). This book is worldrenown and unanimously accepted. Imaam Bayhaqi needs no introduction, suffice to say that he has written great works on Ahaadith upon which the whole world is dependent upon. Will the objector lay his false blatant allegation of ‘grave worship’ on Imaam Bahyaqi, just because he mentioned such an incident in his book? Secondly, this incident is also recorded in Musnadul Faarooq by ibn Katheer (vol.1 pg.223). Thirdly, it has also been recorded by the worldrenown scholar Hafiz ibn Hajar (RA) in his al-Isaabah (vol.6 pg.216). One wonders how on earth would the objector lay such a foolish allegation of grave worship on these great scholars. What’s even better is this that the incident has also been recorded in Fath al-Baari (vol.2 pg.629; Qadeemi) - The most accepted commentary of the most authentic book after the Qur’aan – Saheeh al-Bukhari. That’s not all, Imaam Bukhari (RA) himself has made indication towards this incident in his Taareekh al-Kabeer (vol.7 pg.304). The objector should cover his face quickly out of shame because both ibn Katheer (RA) and ibn Hajar (RA) have classified this incident as authentic. (Musnadul Faarooq vol.1 pg.23; Fath al-Baari vol.2 pg.629). This clearly proves that the objector is being biased and wishes to attack the book Fadhaail-e-Aamal for no reason whatsoever. Why does the objector not lay his blatant lie against all these books – Dalaail-un-nubuwwah, Fath al-Baari, Isaabah, Taareekh al-Kabeer and Musnadul Faarooq? Why doesn’t he say that these books promote graveworship?
    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    also about the "kashf" issue,
    bro did you understood what KAshf it self is? Kashf is not what sahaba(rd) were able to see and what otehrs werent. you cant tell the thing which sahaba(rd) didnt see, doesnt mean others arent able to see that either.

    Shaykhul Islam Allaamah Taqi-u-ddin Hafiz Ahmad ibn Taymiyah (RA). In his famous ‘Fataawa ibn Taymiyah’ he states, ‘miracles (of the Awliyaa) sometimes occur by a person hearing something that others can’t, sometimes a person sees something that others don’t whilst awake or in a dream, sometimes a person is given knowledge of something which others don’t know about through Wahy (revelation) or Ilhaam (inspiration)… this this is called Kashf and Mushahadaat..’ (Fataawa ibn Taymiyah vol.11 pg.173; Darul Wafaa)

    Kashf is nothing just miracle. ITs not wajib for anyone to beleive in those and these are neither evidence of anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    then they make up this "Abdaal" thing.
    the term "Abdaal" exist, yet some fake people fabricated a lot of thing with it like htey did with hadith by fabricating it.

    Ibn taymiyah(rh) said:
    وأين هم من الأقطاب والأوتاد والأغواث والأبدال والنجباء؟
    and how can we compare the Angels with the Aqtab and Awtad and Abdal and Nujaba. (See Volume 4, P.232)

    It is mentioned in the words of some of the salaf and some of the later scholars: So and so is one of the abdaal. For example, in al-Tareekh al-Kabeer by al-Bukhaari (7/127), in the biography of Farwah ibn Mujaalid, it says: They did not doubt that he was one of the abdaal. End quote. As narrated by al-Daaraqutni in al-‘Ilal (6/29), Imam Ahmad said: If anyone in Iraq was one of the abdaal, it was Abu Ishaaq Ibraaheem ibn Haani’.

    Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (4/97):

    As for the scholars, they used to say that they were the abdaal, because they were the substitutes of the Prophets, and they took their place in a real sense. They were not people who had no knowledge or who were unknown. Each of them took the place of the Prophets in the field in which he excelled, whether knowledge or worship. They said that they were the group that would continue to prevail until the Hour begins, because they are following guidance and the true religion with which Allaah sent His Messengers, the religion which Allaah promised would prevail over all other religions, and sufficient is Allaah as a witness.

    Sheikh Ibn Taymiyya r.a.a himself in Aqeedah al Wasitiyah said that the Abdaal exist.

    لكن لما أخبر النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم أن أمته ستفترق على ثلاث وسبعين فرقة كلها في النار إلا واحدة وهي الجماعة وفي حديث عنه أنه قال : ( هم من كان على مثل ما أنا عليه اليوم وأصحابي ) صار المتمسكون بالإسلام المحض الخالص عن الشوب هم أهل السنة والجماعة وفيهم الصديقون والشهداء والصالحون ومنهم أعلام الهدى ومصابيح الدجى أولوا المناقب المأثورة والفضائل المذكورة وفيهم الأبدال وفيهم أئمة الدين الذين أجمع المسلمون على هدايتهم وهم الطائفة المنصورة الذين قال فيهم النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم : ( لا تزال طائفة من أمتي على الحق منصورة لا يضرهم من خالفهم ولا من خذلهم حتى تقوم الساعة ) فنسأل الله أن يجعلنا منهم وألا يزيغ قلوبنا بعد إذ هدانا وأن يهب لنا من لدنه رحمة إنه الوهاب والله أعلم «العقيدة الواسطية» (ج 1 / ص 32( و انظر «مجموع الفتاوى» (ج 3 / ص 159)


    "The true adherents of Islam in its pristine purity are Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`a. In their ranks the truthful saints (siddiqin), the martyrs, and the righteous are to be found. Among them are the great men of guidance and illumination, of recorded integrity and celebrated virtue. The Substitutes (abdal) and the Imams of religion are to be found among them and the Muslims are in full accord concerning their guidance. These are the Victorious Group about whom the Prophet said: "A group within my Community manifestly continues to be in the truth. Neither those who oppose them nor those who abandon them can do them harm, from now on until the Day of Resurrection." [Ibn Taymiyya, `Aqida wasitiyya (Salafiyya edition) p. 36.]

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    also about the "kashf" issue, ............

    lets be reasonable here...
    Bro, read Hayatus sahaba 3rd volume. there you will find a lot of miracle and kashf stories of sahaba(rd). i can assure you that you havent heard about those in your life time, but this all happend with sahaba(rd).
    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    also read these stories:
    See Fazail Hajj (Urdu page 138, Tamil page 225)
    "When you see the green dome then it should be with awe and reverence and you should take care of the honour of the Huzoor and reflect that in that pure dome is he who is the best of creation, leader of the prophets and virtuous the Angels. The place of the holy grave is superior than any other place and that place which touches the holy body of the Huzoor is superior to the Ka'bah, superior to Arsh, superior to Kursi in fact superior than everything in the heavens and earth."
    http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/pgrave1.htm
    Last edited by junaid123; 12-07-11 at 08:36 PM.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by junaid123 View Post
    Ibn taymiyah(rh) said:
    وأين هم من الأقطاب والأوتاد والأغواث والأبدال والنجباء؟
    [/url]
    exactly, even if the word did exist, the sufis of today twisted it and make it something which it is not......they have aghwaath, meaning people who are dead but have the power to help people......they call Sheikh Abdul Qadir al Jeelani may Allah have mercy on him as a Ghouth-e-Aaazam and call out to him "ya ghouth", "ya badawi" they openly call out the dead for help.....and this is the tricky part, they may take things which were there before but have changed their meaning and the way to approach it altogether, making it difficult for a Muslim today to know the truth........whenever attacked they mention the old sources but they know that they dont actually go by that.......did any taba'ee ever call out a Sahabi in his grave to help him out or say that a particular Sahabi is present at all places, Sahabah were THE ABDAAL and AWLIYAA, no sufi wali can ever be better than them yet they didnt help people after they died.......

    same thing with kashf & ilhaam, look at the stories of the Sahabah & look at these sufi stories of today, so much difference.....
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by junaid123 View Post
    what you say about this bro?
    , bro, you havent commented on the story which i quoted in my last post.
    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    exactly, even if the word did exist
    what the term itself shows that there are some level among awliyah´s present , like all us laymen arent same.
    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    same thing with kashf & ilhaam, look at the stories of the Sahabah & look at these sufi stories of today, so much difference.....
    yes bro differences will be present.

    last week, one of my christian work colleuge was asking that did prophet(sw) had similar miracles like Musa(aw) and ISa(aw) . I said: No. Prophet(aw) doesnt need to have similar miracles like previous prophets(aw) to prove that he is also a prophet. the main thing is understanding the concept of Miracle.

    Like the Miracle of prophets(aw) arent same, the kashf and Ilham of Awliyah´s arent same either like sahaba(Rd).what you need to know is understand the concept of kashf and ilham as very briefly discussed by ibn taymiyah(Rh) in his books. Shariah hasnt made us obligatory to beleive in any narration related kashf, so if you dont trust a person, you can deny the kashf which is being related to him.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    Quote Originally Posted by junaid123 View Post
    Like the Miracle of prophets(aw) arent same, the kashf and Ilham of Awliyah´s arent same either like sahaba(Rd).
    the surprising part is when the kashf/ilhaam of the awliyah becomes more miraculous & greater than that of the Sahabah.....who were THE 1st real Awliyah......

    you didnt reply to me either about abdaal/aghwaath etc. where people openly ask help from the dead.....no taba'i ever asked help from a dead Sahabi.....
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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    Re: the Tablighi Jamaat of the old.....

    nice posts
    Last edited by solitary; 16-07-11 at 09:44 AM.


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