Tahir Ul Qadri & Ahmed Khan Barelwi Exposed!

[Sunnah321]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_XnqmL29aw

[muslim ak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_XnqmL29aw

This talk took place in alum rock last week, here's what a brother wrote in another forum:


Murtaza Khan came to Alum Rock in Birmigham today and delivered a lecture against Shaykh Ahmad Rida Khan.

He used the usual stuff as foundin the work of Ihsan Ilahi Zaheer.

Then Asrar Rashid landed at the Salafi Masjid and challenged Murtaza Khan to a debate.

The Masjid committee did not allow anything to happen and barred Asrar from approaching Murtaza. Asrar was accompanied by one guy and it was clear he didn't come for trouble but to ask about Murtaza's slander against the Sufis.
The Salafi seeing they outnumbered Asrar were shocked how calm Asrar was despite their numbers.

Anyhow they made Asrar wait outside and promised him Murtaza will come there. Murtaza done a legger through the back door!!!

So why do Abu Usama, Abu Khadija and Murtaza always and have refused Asrar's challenges?? Damishqiya has not returned for the debate on tawassul, and it is a false rumour that he has accepted.

I say this because the afforementioned individuals attack the Sufis and when challenged they decline. Why is that?

[.Abu.Rambo.]

This talk took place in alum rock last week, here's what a brother wrote in another forum:


Murtaza Khan came to Alum Rock in Birmigham today and delivered a lecture against Shaykh Ahmad Rida Khan.

He used the usual stuff as foundin the work of Ihsan Ilahi Zaheer.

Then Asrar Rashid landed at the Salafi Masjid and challenged Murtaza Khan to a debate.

The Masjid committee did not allow anything to happen and barred Asrar from approaching Murtaza. Asrar was accompanied by one guy and it was clear he didn't come for trouble but to ask about Murtaza's slander against the Sufis.
The Salafi seeing they outnumbered Asrar were shocked how calm Asrar was despite their numbers.

Anyhow they made Asrar wait outside and promised him Murtaza will come there. Murtaza done a legger through the back door!!!

So why do Abu Usama, Abu Khadija and Murtaza always and have refused Asrar's challenges?? Damishqiya has not returned for the debate on tawassul, and it is a false rumour that he has accepted.

I say this because the afforementioned individuals attack the Sufis and when challenged they decline. Why is that?

Damishqiya never answered his phone

[Ibn Sina]

brb "exposing" every well known alim

[MuslimSoljah]

This talk took place in alum rock last week, here's what a brother wrote in another forum:


Murtaza Khan came to Alum Rock in Birmigham today and delivered a lecture against Shaykh Ahmad Rida Khan.

He used the usual stuff as foundin the work of Ihsan Ilahi Zaheer.

Then Asrar Rashid landed at the Salafi Masjid and challenged Murtaza Khan to a debate.

The Masjid committee did not allow anything to happen and barred Asrar from approaching Murtaza. Asrar was accompanied by one guy and it was clear he didn't come for trouble but to ask about Murtaza's slander against the Sufis.
The Salafi seeing they outnumbered Asrar were shocked how calm Asrar was despite their numbers.

Anyhow they made Asrar wait outside and promised him Murtaza will come there. Murtaza done a legger through the back door!!!

So why do Abu Usama, Abu Khadija and Murtaza always and have refused Asrar's challenges?? Damishqiya has not returned for the debate on tawassul, and it is a false rumour that he has accepted.

I say this because the afforementioned individuals attack the Sufis and when challenged they decline. Why is that?

Sugar levels were high due to halwa

[Hafsah1]

This talk took place in alum rock last week, here's what a brother wrote in another forum:


Murtaza Khan came to Alum Rock in Birmigham today and delivered a lecture against Shaykh Ahmad Rida Khan.

He used the usual stuff as foundin the work of Ihsan Ilahi Zaheer.

Then Asrar Rashid landed at the Salafi Masjid and challenged Murtaza Khan to a debate.

The Masjid committee did not allow anything to happen and barred Asrar from approaching Murtaza. Asrar was accompanied by one guy and it was clear he didn't come for trouble but to ask about Murtaza's slander against the Sufis.
The Salafi seeing they outnumbered Asrar were shocked how calm Asrar was despite their numbers.

Anyhow they made Asrar wait outside and promised him Murtaza will come there. Murtaza done a legger through the back door!!!

So why do Abu Usama, Abu Khadija and Murtaza always and have refused Asrar's challenges?? Damishqiya has not returned for the debate on tawassul, and it is a false rumour that he has accepted.

I say this because the afforementioned individuals attack the Sufis and when challenged they decline. Why is that?

It occurred before! Shaykh Ibn Baaz [rh] was challenged publically by the leader of the takfeeri-esque Ibaadis and kept refusing because he said "the erronous and deviated views of this man had already been clearly exposed" and also said "your fallacies are known to the people" - had he debated him this would of created publicity for the person of innovation even if he was utterly defeated.

- A good example of this is bringing Nick Griffin onto Question Time during the election campaign. Even though Jack Straw embarassed him, he [Griffin] used this publicity to reach out to 1000s of sympathisers and also then used it as a show of how much he has "progressed up the levels of politics" in order to help market his party and gain support. Same with these mubtadis, dont give them the time of day. As Imaam Ibn Sireen did with the innovator in his time "I swear by Allaah I will not even listen to an aayah of Qur'an from you, so either you leave or I leave!".
Is there a need for a debate? Are we unaware of the Ash'aris and Maturidis and their deviations? Are we unaware of Abu Mansur and his evil? Are we unaware of Jahm ibn Safwan and his kufr? Are we not clear upon our aqeedah and manhaj? These people, have they not already been refuted in the past [ asharis.com / this forum / ulama like Allaamah Ehsan, Shams ud-Deen al-Afghaani etc]?
This is the Sunnah of the Mubtadi'oon: We always hear of challenges, debates and so on especially in Pakistan and this is their Sunnah and their style, they cant reach out enough to the masses so they try to entice them by challenging and debating.

[muslim ak]

It occurred before! Shaykh Ibn Baaz [rh] was challenged publically by the leader of the takfeeri-esque Ibaadis and kept refusing because he said "the erronous and deviated views of this man had already been clearly exposed" and also said "your fallacies are known to the people" - had he debated him this would of created publicity for the person of innovation even if he was utterly defeated.

- A good example of this is bringing Nick Griffin onto Question Time during the election campaign. Even though Jack Straw embarassed him, he [Griffin] used this publicity to reach out to 1000s of sympathisers and also then used it as a show of how much he has "progressed up the levels of politics" in order to help market his party and gain support. Same with these mubtadis, dont give them the time of day. As Imaam Ibn Sireen did with the innovator in his time "I swear by Allaah I will not even listen to an aayah of Qur'an from you, so either you leave or I leave!".
Is there a need for a debate? Are we unaware of the Ash'aris and Maturidis and their deviations? Are we unaware of Abu Mansur and his evil? Are we unaware of Jahm ibn Safwan and his kufr? Are we not clear upon our aqeedah and manhaj? These people, have they not already been refuted in the past [ asharis.com / this forum / ulama like Allaamah Ehsan, Shams ud-Deen al-Afghaani etc]?
This is the Sunnah of the Mubtadi'oon: We always hear of challenges, debates and so on especially in Pakistan and this is their Sunnah and their style, they cant reach out enough to the masses so they try to entice them by challenging and debating.

lame excuses lol

[Abu Dhahabi]

Lol @ these quburi brailvis

[elza3d]

I read about this on another forum, and I suggest to get a real understanding people read the thread there insha'Allaah; http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=13229

It's where the rest of the discussion carries on:

This talk took place in alum rock last week, here's what a brother wrote in another forum:


Murtaza Khan came to Alum Rock in Birmigham today and delivered a lecture against Shaykh Ahmad Rida Khan.

He used the usual stuff as foundin the work of Ihsan Ilahi Zaheer.

Then Asrar Rashid landed at the Salafi Masjid and challenged Murtaza Khan to a debate.

The Masjid committee did not allow anything to happen and barred Asrar from approaching Murtaza. Asrar was accompanied by one guy and it was clear he didn't come for trouble but to ask about Murtaza's slander against the Sufis.
The Salafi seeing they outnumbered Asrar were shocked how calm Asrar was despite their numbers.

Anyhow they made Asrar wait outside and promised him Murtaza will come there. Murtaza done a legger through the back door!!!

So why do Abu Usama, Abu Khadija and Murtaza always and have refused Asrar's challenges?? Damishqiya has not returned for the debate on tawassul, and it is a false rumour that he has accepted.

I say this because the afforementioned individuals attack the Sufis and when challenged they decline. Why is that?

[muslim ak]

Lol @ these quburi brailvis

is that the best you can do

why don't you get murtaza khan to debate asrar rashid if he is on the haqq so he can "expose" the sufis lol

[muslim ak]

I read about this on another forum, and I suggest to get a real understanding people read the thread there insha'Allaah; http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=13229

It's where read of this discussion carries on:

yes thats true... i know the brother that wrote the post...

anyway here is another side of the discussion:

http://www.sunnaforum.com/threads/de...taza-khan.273/

[elza3d]

why don't you get murtaza khan to debate asrar rashid if he is on the haqq so he can "expose" the sufis lol

You already know why, please read the rest of this thread: http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=13229

You are being dishonest, and insincere. I suggest you get serious, and stop being a fitan.

[muslim ak]

You already know why, please read the rest of this thread: http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=13229

You are being dishonest, and insincere. I suggest you get serious, and stop being a fitan.

no i'm not...

is it ok to call muslims; mushriks and kafirs ?? is not this causing fitnah... its only natural that by doing so one would be challenged to their claims..

i have read that thread as well as this one: http://www.sunnaforum.com/threads/de...taza-khan.273/

[Salman Al-Farsi]

ihsan elahi zaheer's book on brelawis is a compilaton of complete non-sense, anyone with little bit of brain and brief knowlede of brelawis would find that book utterly frustrating as full of misinformation, fabrications and lies.

Its non-sense like the brelawis apparently accused Jinnah of kufr, lol does that mean salafis took an offence at brelawis considering jinna a kaffir??? Which in anycase is a lie because brelawis do not consider Jinnah a kaffir. This is just one example from the book and the kind of babyish discourse it includes and if tawfique chowdhery finds such a work some sort of intellectual proof, it shows his own intellectual strength.

[elza3d]

ihsan elahi zaheer's book on brelawis is a compilaton of complete non-sense, anyone with little bit of brain and brief knowlede of brelawis would find that book utterly frustrating as full of misinformation, fabrications and lies.

Its non-sense like the brelawis apparently accused Jinnah of kufr, lol does that mean salafis took an offence at brelawis considering jinna a kaffir??? Which in anycase is a lie because brelawis do not consider Jinnah a kaffir. This is just one example from the book and the kind of babyish discourse it includes and if tawfique chowdhery finds such a work some sort of intellectual proof, it shows his own intellectual strength.

Is that tawfique chowdhery from Al-Kauthar Institue? What is your view on Brelwi's brother?

[Soliloquy]

It occurred before! Shaykh Ibn Baaz [rh] was challenged publically by the leader of the takfeeri-esque Ibaadis and kept refusing because he said "the erronous and deviated views of this man had already been clearly exposed" and also said "your fallacies are known to the people" - had he debated him this would of created publicity for the person of innovation even if he was utterly defeated.

- A good example of this is bringing Nick Griffin onto Question Time during the election campaign. Even though Jack Straw embarassed him, he [Griffin] used this publicity to reach out to 1000s of sympathisers and also then used it as a show of how much he has "progressed up the levels of politics" in order to help market his party and gain support. Same with these mubtadis, dont give them the time of day. As Imaam Ibn Sireen did with the innovator in his time "I swear by Allaah I will not even listen to an aayah of Qur'an from you, so either you leave or I leave!".
Is there a need for a debate? Are we unaware of the Ash'aris and Maturidis and their deviations? Are we unaware of Abu Mansur and his evil? Are we unaware of Jahm ibn Safwan and his kufr? Are we not clear upon our aqeedah and manhaj? These people, have they not already been refuted in the past [ asharis.com / this forum / ulama like Allaamah Ehsan, Shams ud-Deen al-Afghaani etc]?
This is the Sunnah of the Mubtadi'oon: We always hear of challenges, debates and so on especially in Pakistan and this is their Sunnah and their style, they cant reach out enough to the masses so they try to entice them by challenging and debating.

Seriously, unsurprising... I hope for your sake, you actually have knowledge on these matters before you type. That's a whole lot of people you've just accused of deviancy, never mind the huge amount of shuyookh and luminaries.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Is that tawfique chowdhery from Al-Kauthar Institue? What is your view on Brelwi's brother?

I am not brelawi and I am not salafi I have my own problems with both these sects, but that does not mean I am going to entertain someone saying salafis love King Abdullah or brealwis are all grave worshippers. These are dishonest claims and these people have spread this exaggerated misconceptions amongst Muslims destroying harmoney. Can you imagine, tawfique choudry goes and calls Brelawis grave worshippers and then brelawis would come down and say stuff about salafis.... who does it really help?

I am just shocked that poeple like tawfique chowdhry are resorting to this type of talks as if brelawis are the biggest problem of the ummah, when salafis are just as problematic as the brelawis.

[elza3d]

I am not brelawi and I am not salafi I have my own problems with both these sects, but that does not mean I am going to entertain someone saying salafis love King Abdullah or brealwis are all grave worshippers. These are dishonest claims and these people have spread this exaggerated misconceptions amongst Muslims destroying harmoney. Can you imagine, tawfique choudry goes and calls Brelawis grave worshippers and then brelawis would come down and say stuff about salafis.... who does it really help?

I am just shocked that poeple like tawfique chowdhry are resorting to this type of talks as if brelawis are the biggest problem of the ummah, when salafis are just as problematic as the brelawis.

I hold similar views, I don't think either are right. Moreover I don't really respect tawfique chowdhry and co. Some times I wonder what world they live in.

However, with regards to Brelwi's there is much contention with them i.e. grave worshipping, surely you are aware of the darbaars in South Asia? And the Nabi (saw) being hazar and nazar?

I myself am inclined towards a middle ground between Salaafi's and Deobandi's. But Brelwi's I cannot see any good in them. Perhaps I am mistaken.

[Hafsah1]

lame excuses lol

He explained all he needed to in the lecture regarding those people, if they have a problem thats their problem, why should he give such people the time of day, who have strange beliefs like Muhammad (SAW) knows the total unseen and is witnessing everything and that Muhammad (SAW) needs plane tickets from Tahir Qadri etc, Why should He give such people a huge audience to spread their beliefs that contradict even the Quran.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And We did not create them (the Messengers, with) bodies that ate not food, nor were they immortals,
Surah Al Anbya Verse 8

Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone."
Surah Al Kahf Verse 110

And they say, "What is this messenger that eats food and walks in the markets? Why was there not sent down to him an angel so he would be with him a warner?
Surah Al Furqaan Verse 7

Say, O [Muhammad], "I am only a man like you to whom it has been revealed that your god is but one God; so take a straight course to Him and seek His forgiveness." And woe to those who associate others with Allah
Surah Fussilat Verse 6

Say: "None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected."
Surah An Naml Verse 65

Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.
Surah An-Nisa, Verse 48


Narated By Masruq : 'Aisha said, "If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord, he is a liar, for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6.103) And if anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen the Unseen, he is a liar, for Allah says: "None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 009, Book 093, Hadith Number 477.

[-Shamil-]

is that the best you can do

why don't you get murtaza khan to debate asrar rashid if he is on the haqq so he can "expose" the sufis lol

having heard both brothers speak - i would very much like to see this debate

does asrar rashid have any debates on youtube? i know he challenges alot of people but has anything been recorded

[muslim ak]

[QUOTE=Hafsah1;4317631]He explained all he needed to in the lecture regarding those people, if they have a problem thats their problem, why should he give such people the time of day, who have strange beliefs like Muhammad (SAW) knows the total unseen and is witnessing everything and that Muhammad (SAW) needs plane tickets from Tahir Qadri etc, Why should He give such people a huge audience to spread their beliefs that contradict even the Quran.


well actually the argument of nick giffin is silly, bnp are the tiny minority and don't have mainstream views, similar to the salafis, so if anything it will help murtaza khan..

the real reason why salafis don't want to debate is bcuz they know they will get exposed..

if your on haqq, then what you got to fear ??

by the way asrar rashid is against tahir ul qadri so lets not even go there

[muslim ak]

having heard both brothers speak - i would very much like to see this debate

does asrar rashid have any debates on youtube? i know he challenges alot of people but has anything been recorded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfOI2...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TikA7vRUPCo

[Hafsah1]

-----

[muslim ak]

^^^

if you cant contribute as is the case in most threads then remain silent

[truepath]

looks like Youtube has become a blessing for Muslims. We do lot of exposing of each other and put up on youtube.

[Hafsah1]

^^^

if you cant contribute as is the case in most threads then remain silent

If that is the type of response you get from Sufis, then is there a need to debate You?

[-Shamil-]

one my criticisms of "brelwis" would be their whole life seems to revolve refuting "wahabis" - not debating non-muslims or hindus or whatever but wahabis and that word in itself is used against everyone who is not "brelwi" - i honesty think alot of brelwis hate other muslims more than the kuffar

[TheMuslim]

MashAllah good talk from brother Murtaza khan.

[muslim ak]

one my criticisms of "brelwis" would be their whole life seems to revolve refuting "wahabis" - not debating non-muslims or hindus or whatever but wahabis and that word in itself is used against everyone who is not "brelwi" - i honesty think alot of brelwis hate other muslims more than the kuffar

if you look on youtube you will find loads of videos by barelwis against shia, qadiani etc...

although i agree with what your saying but thats true for salafis, deobandis as well....

all of them are too busy refuting each other more than they do of non-muslims

[truepath]

if you look on youtube you will find loads of videos by barelwis against shia, qadiani etc...

although i agree with what your saying but thats true for salafis, deobandis as well....

all of them are too busy refuting each other more than they do of non-muslims

to be honest, I have seen many videos being posted about salafis exposing barelwis

I have seen many videos being posted of so called tabligihis or deobandis exposed.

but as far as I can remember, I haven't seen any video from youtube or anywhere being posted on the forum of any deobandi scholar 'exposing' others.

[Fais]

having heard both brothers speak - i would very much like to see this debate

does asrar rashid have any debates on youtube? i know he challenges alot of people but has anything been recorded

Same, I would like to see this debate .. Done with respect though.

[Fais]

to be honest, I have seen many videos being posted about salafis exposing barelwis

I have seen many videos being posted of so called tabligihis or deobandis exposed.

but as far as I can remember, I haven't seen any video from youtube or anywhere being posted on the forum of any deobandi scholar 'exposing' others.

I agree with that.

[PakiBaz]

does murtaza khan ever smile

[Hafsah1]

does murtaza khan ever smile

Yes he does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yExfJ0EG8

[PakiBaz]

Yes he does:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yExfJ0EG8

[elza3d]

Yes he does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_yExfJ0EG8

lol I swear he almost slipped and said *you see that sh...* lol Mahsa'Allaah, good video.

[muslimali1234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_XnqmL29aw

jazakallah khair for the lecture maa sha Allah very good lecture, the part about bilal subhanallah its eye watering

[muslim ak]

Same, I would like to see this debate .. Done with respect though.

i couldn't agree more... i'm sure it can be organised in a respectable and professional manner,

but for there to be a debate we need both parties to agree to a debate

[Abu Dhahabi]

mashallah Murtaza Khan is a good speaker

his thugs or Mugs lecture was brilliant

[.Abu.Rambo.]

I don't understand why he done a legger, he debates openly about music, debates any random laymen on the street and when someone with knowledge comes along he does a runner ajeeb! probably didn't want to get embarissed like dimansihqi did.