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  1. #1
    Ramadan Kariim ! <3 Sophiia's Avatar
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    Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    :

    yeah I know there is NO engangement in Islam. But when thats said, can a person make nikah tomorrow and have the wedding 3-4 years after? Ok ok, what I want to know is do you have to have sex during that period to "consumate" the marriage?
    The upper hand (the one that gives) is better than the lower hand (the one that takes).

  2. #2
    Odan
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophiia View Post

    ........I know there is NO engangement in Islam.........
    What? How would you straightaway marry without engagement?

    "An engagement is a promise to marry, and also the period of time between proposal and marriage – which may be lengthy or trivial. During this period, a couple is said to be affianced, betrothed, engaged to be married, or simply engaged. Future brides and grooms are often referred to as fiancées or fiancés respectively (from the French word fiancé). The duration of the courtship varies vastly."
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

  3. #3
    I'm a sis! Russo's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Whats the point of having nikkah but being together officially after 3-4 years? People change and things happen.

    I can understand if the person is in a different country and any delay would be due to visa issues and then having to wait say up to 18 months but otherwise having the nikkah and then waiting up to 4 years is non-sensical.

    Also one of party may want to have intimate relations - that is their right. So why should he or she wait.

  4. #4
    أهل الرأي. IbnulQayyim's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Islamic concept about engagement is different to that of the Kuffar. And no it is not Fard to consummate before the Waleemah.
    Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

    ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
    فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

  5. #5
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.



    what I want to know is do you have to have sex during that period to "consumate" the marriage?
    How else do you consummate the marriage if not with intercourse?
    Call onto Allah, such that you are certain that He, al-Mujib wal-Kareem, will answer your call before you even lower your hands.
    وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

  6. #6
    أهل الرأي. IbnulQayyim's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    um thats not what shes asking
    Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

    ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
    فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

  7. #7
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Phir kiya?
    Call onto Allah, such that you are certain that He, al-Mujib wal-Kareem, will answer your call before you even lower your hands.
    وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

  8. #8
    cute lethal wahabi
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    the prophet (saws) married aisha and three years later consumated the marriage. So it's permissable to delay such a thing...and the waleemah can be delayed as well. These things are flexibe but at the same time it's not wise to be overly flexible...

    and...there is engagement in Islam, during the engagement period all it means is the prospect lady has been spoken for already. But all the stuff which are only permissable for married people still remain unpermissable.

    Allah Alam
    Last edited by advertisement2; 07-05-11 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #9
    pariah *asiya*'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophiia View Post
    :

    yeah I know there is NO engangement in Islam. But when thats said, can a person make nikah tomorrow and have the wedding 3-4 years after? Ok ok, what I want to know is do you have to have sex during that period to "consumate" the marriage?
    u could, but nikkah is ur marriage its ur wedding day,the wallima is the wedding feast and is done after consumation the sunnah is to do it within 3 days of the wedding day ( nikkah) in the case of Aisha radiAllahu anha her marriage wasnt consumated until she reached adulthood so thats different. is there any young husband who is willing to wait 3 years to be with his wife, what if he cant wait and she becomes pregnant they are lawful for each other after all will he be able to feed and house her and the child, what does her walli say about this idea, is he happy to marry her to a man who isnt going to maintain her and keep her as a proper wife, is she going to waive her right to be maintained and housed by her husband, there are so many questions, the ppl considering this need to get the womans walli to take it to a shaikh
    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

    The Prophet said:

    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

    muslim

    Narrated 'Abdullah:

    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]


  10. #10
    Over it.
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    I'm personally a fan of the idea of having sometime between the Nikkah and Waleemah, but 3-4 years is a very long time! I personally think a year is pushing it as lots of things can change. But you know your circumstances better than anyone else and are in a better state to judge...but I would personally think in terms of months...not years.
    "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

  11. #11
    Ramadan Kariim ! <3 Sophiia's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by advertisement2 View Post
    the prophet (saws) married aisha and three years later consumated the marriage. So it's permissable to delay such a thing...and the waleemah can be delayed as well. These things are flexibe but at the same time it's not wise to be overly flexible...

    and...there is engagement in Islam, during the engagement period all it means is the prospect lady has been spoken for already. But all the stuff which are only permissable for married people still remain unpermissable.

    Allah Alam
    very helpful.
    The upper hand (the one that gives) is better than the lower hand (the one that takes).

  12. #12
    Ramadan Kariim ! <3 Sophiia's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfissy815 View Post
    I'm personally a fan of the idea of having sometime between the Nikkah and Waleemah, but 3-4 years is a very long time! I personally think a year is pushing it as lots of things can change. But you know your circumstances better than anyone else and are in a better state to judge...but I would personally think in terms of months...not years.
    3-4 years was just an example
    The upper hand (the one that gives) is better than the lower hand (the one that takes).

  13. #13
    Ramadan Kariim ! <3 Sophiia's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post




    How else do you consummate the marriage if not with intercourse?
    I was just asking if you had to have sex right after nikah to consumate the marriage, or was it possible to wait?
    The upper hand (the one that gives) is better than the lower hand (the one that takes).

  14. #14
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophiia View Post
    I was just asking if you had to have sex right after nikah to consumate the marriage, or was it possible to wait?
    Oh, nah, then.
    It's between the couple to decide.
    Call onto Allah, such that you are certain that He, al-Mujib wal-Kareem, will answer your call before you even lower your hands.
    وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

  15. #15
    Ramadan Kariim ! <3 Sophiia's Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    Oh, nah, then.
    It's between the couple to decide.
    I was just wondering if the nikah would be invalid if the couple waitied for instance 2 years to consumate the marriage
    The upper hand (the one that gives) is better than the lower hand (the one that takes).

  16. #16
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sophiia View Post
    I was just wondering if the nikah would be invalid if the couple waitied for instance 2 years to consumate the marriage
    If they both agree to it, then there's no problem as far as I know.
    Call onto Allah, such that you are certain that He, al-Mujib wal-Kareem, will answer your call before you even lower your hands.
    وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

  17. #17
    cute lethal wahabi
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    If they both agree to it, then there's no problem as far as I know.
    exactly.

    But if it's due to inability to consumate for physical reasons or what have you then it's a different scenario...

  18. #18
    Odan
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    If they both agree to it, then there's no problem as far as I know.
    Could you elaborate on the source of this knowledge?
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

  19. #19
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboosait View Post
    Could you elaborate on the source of this knowledge?
    If the marriage contract is done with the consent of both parties and in the presence of the woman’s wali (guardian) and two witnesses, then it is a valid marriage, whether the consummation takes place immediately afterwards or it is delayed for a long time or a short time.

    Link
    Call onto Allah, such that you are certain that He, al-Mujib wal-Kareem, will answer your call before you even lower your hands.
    وَقَالَ رَبُّكُمُ ادْعُونِي أَسْتَجِبْ لَكُمْ

  20. #20
    Odan
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by *asiya* View Post


    u could, but

    • nikkah is ur marriage its ur wedding day,
    • the wallima is the wedding feast and is done after consumation
    • the sunnah is to do it within 3 days of the wedding day ( nikkah)


    1. in the case of Aisha radiAllahu anha her marriage wasnt consumated until she reached adulthood so thats different.

    2. is there any young husband who is willing to wait 3 years to be with his wife,

    3. what if he cant wait and she becomes pregnant they are lawful for each other after all will he be able to feed and house her and the child,

    4. what does her walli say about this idea, is he happy to marry her to a man who isnt going to maintain her and keep her as a proper wife,

    5. is she going to waive her right to be maintained and housed by her husband,

    there are so many questions, the ppl considering this need to get the womans walli to take it to a shaikh
    @ *asiya*: Points to ponder. Jazakallahu khair.

    @ .mirror.: Please examine your views in the light of the the above and enlighten us on your decision.


    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    If the marriage contract is done with the consent of both parties and in the presence of the woman’s wali (guardian) and two witnesses, then it is a valid marriage, whether the consummation takes place immediately afterwards or it is delayed for a long time or a short time.
    Last edited by aboosait; 09-05-11 at 02:21 AM.
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

  21. #21
    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Nikah/Engagement, etc.

    There's a diff. of opinion on the walima and consummation matter.
    Some say it should be after consummation, some say it can be before or after.

    IslamQA says walimah doesn't have anything to do with consummation; so the consummation can be done anytime the couple wishes to do so.

    Here's what i found on AskImam:

    1. Waleema is to express ones happiness for the happy and important
      development of Nikah in ones life. Since Walima in essence is an expression
      of happiness at being married therefore it may take place before or after
      consummation.


    And:

    In principle, the Sunnat time of Walimah is anytime after the consummation of the marriage. What is meant by forbidden after 3 days is to have the Walimah 'upto 3 days'.

    Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'Food on the first day is established. On the second day it is Sunnah and on the third day, it will be Riyaa (boasting). The Walima may also be fulfilled on the day of the wedding before consummation (Awjazul Masalik)

    and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best


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