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  1. #1
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    Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    When the prophet (SAW) said: there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab?

    Why you believe that everyone who doesn't accept the tafdhil (superiority) of the Arab race, is a deviant and innovator, when you are giving precedence to Salafis scholars' rulings over the rulings of the prophet (SAW)? Why hasn't the superiority of the Arab race ever mentioned in the Quran or authentic hadiths?

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR (Afdal) than Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars – ‘Al-Jamhoor’- .

    He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Qurai****e nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majm’u Al-Fataawa 19/29

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote:

    “Verily, what Ahlul Sunnah is upon: Is the BELIEF (I’tiqaad) that the Arab race is better (Afdal) then the Non-Arab race. Whether (the Non-Arabs) are Hebrews, Aramaic, Romans, Persians and other than them…”. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/419

    Abu Muhammad, Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (died 280 – ra) who was one of the students and companions of Imaam Ahmed (ra) also mentioned this point when he wrote about the descriptions and BELIEFS of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH.


    Shiekh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:

    “Know that the Ahaadith (that show) the superiority of Quraish and then the superiority of Bani Haashim are numerous and this is not the place (to gather all of them) but they also prove this (superiority of the Arab over Non-Arabs).

    And this is due to the fact that the relationship of Quraish to the Arabs is just like the relationship of the Arabs to the rest of the people (i.e. Qurai****es are superior to Non-Qurai****es and the Arabs are superior to Non-Arabs). Verily Allah the Most High has designated the Arabs and their language with ‘Ahkaam’ that are peculiar and unique.

    And then He preferred Quraish over the rest of the Arabs in what He has given them of prophecy and other than that from the ‘Khasaais’ (unique and peculiar qualities)”. Iqtidaa As-Siraat-il-Mustaqeem 2/431

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) also said:

    “…The superiority of the Arab race and then (the superiority of) Quraish and then (the superiority of) Bani Haashim, is not simply due to the fact the Prophet (peace be upon him) is from them – even though this is (a point) of superiority – but instead, they themselves are superior within themselves“. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/420



    Source: http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/salafi-imam-we-must-believe-arabs-are-master-race/

  2. #121
    An-Najdi abufulaans's Avatar
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post
    I am not arguing against the aquired superiority of Arabs. The Poster is a racist because he attributed superioity to rightouness simply because he is Arab over a non-Arab Muslim.

    This is racism.

    evertything about Arab superiority is in Dunya, not ahkira. The one who thinks he is supeeior in Ahkira because he is Arab is racit.
    Yes rightousness is completely different issue, that's a incorrect understanding
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

  3. #122
    An-Najdi abufulaans's Avatar
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    None of those things make you superior compared to another Muslim, futile examples.
    Your not understanding, the superiority has nothing to do with Islam or taqwa
    And Zeeshan does not mean it has anything to do with taqwa either
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    Yes rightousness is completely different issue, that's a incorrect understanding
    well maybe you should tell that to the racist abu sufyan who somehow has twisted beliefs about this matter. This is the cusp of the problem in our society. Specially in the west. They tie in Arab superiority through taqwa by twisting the words and the works of our great scholars.
    Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

    If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

  5. #124
    Poor slave. Abdullah012's Avatar
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    He made a mistake, rahimahullah, so what?
    The Love Allah has for Prophet Muhammad ﷺ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acm3R7MbO_Q

  6. #125

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    1) Subhanallah. I swear by Allah if Islam taught what you said here, I would have left Islam a long time ago:
    On the basis of verdicts by the Imams and scholars?

  7. #126
    An-Najdi abufulaans's Avatar
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post
    well maybe you should tell that to the racist abu sufyan who somehow has twisted beliefs about this matter. This is the cusp of the problem in our society. Specially in the west. They tie in Arab superiority through taqwa by twisting the words and the works of our great scholars.
    Abu Sufyaan doesn't believe that If an Arab and non Arab have exactly the same taqwa, then the Arab is more beloved to Allah
    What means that the Arab is just better, in the dunya, and Allah knows best why he choose them

    He also does not mean any Arab can say he is better then a non Arab, I can assure you that aswell

    What he is saying is correct, he is just saying it poorly
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

  8. #127

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    Arab's aren't superior. Doesn't matter what anyone says.
    As other people have noted before, if you hold such a position you are no longer part of Ahlus Sunnah.

    The position you seem to be holding is the position of a sect called As-Suhoobiyah who are considered to be deviants by Ahlus Sunnah scholars.

    Shaikhul Islaam ibn Taymiyyah said in Iqtidaa’ As-Siraat al-Mustaqeem:
    The belief of Ahlussunnati waJamaa’ah is that the essence of Arabs is better than that of ‘Ajam, whether the ‘Ajam
    are Hebrew, Assyrians, Romans, Persians or others.
    Quraish is the best of Arabs, Bani Hashim are the best of Quaish, and Muhammad ASWS is the best of Bani Hashim.
    Therefore, Muhammad ASWS is the best of humanity, both in person and in lineage.
    The virtue of Arabs, Quraish and then Bani Hashim is not just because the Prophet ASWS was from them, even
    though this is a part of virtue. Arabs are in themselves better. This is how it is proven that the Prophet ASWS is the
    best in person and lineage. Otherwise, a revolving argument will generate.3

    Abu Muhammad Harb bin Ismail al-Kirmaani, the companion of Imam Ahmad, described his book of Sunnah by
    saying:
    "This is the belief of Imaams of knowledge, those of Athar and well known people of Sunnah, which have been taken as examples. It is the belief of scholars of Iraq, Hijaaz, Sham and others.
    Whomever goes against any of these Madhaahib, attacks them or despises those adopting them is a person of Bid’ah, he would be outside of Jamaa’ah, and inconsistent with the way of Sunnah and path of truth. It is the Madhab of Ahmad, Ishaaq bin Ibrahim bin Makhlad, Abdullah bin Az-zubair, al-Humaidee, Sa’eed bin Mansoor, and others with whom we have sat and from whom we have acquired knowledge.

  9. #128

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by TripolySunni View Post
    Al-Albani who is also a big Salafi when commenting on this weak narration:

    أنا عربي ، و القرآن عربي ، و لسان أهل الجنة عربي

    [He (saw) said: I am an Arab, the Qur'an is Arabic and the tongue of the dwellers of heaven is Arabic.]

    He says:

    ومما يدل على بطلان نسبة هذا الحديث إليه صلى الله عليه وسلم أن فيه افتخاره صلى الله عليه وسلم بعروبته و هذا شيء غريب في الشرع الإسلامي لا يلتئم مع قوله تعالى إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقاكم و قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا فضل لعربي على عجمي ... إلا بالتقوى ولا مع نهيه صلى الله عليه وسلم عن الافتخار بالآباء وهو قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم إن الله عز وجل أذهب عنكم عبية الجاهلية و فخرها بالآباء ، الناس بنو آدم ، و آدم من تراب ، مؤمن تقي و فاجر شقي ، لينتهين أقوام يفتخرون برجال إنما هم فحم من فحم جهنم ، أو ليكونن أهون على الله من الجعلان التي تدفع النتن بأفواها

    [What proves the corruption of this attribution to the Prophet (saw) is that it contains boasting about the lineage and that he (saw) boasts about his Arabism and this is an odd thing to do according to Islamic law.

    It disagrees with Allah's words {Surely the noblest among you in the sight of God is the most godfearing} and with his own words (saw): "There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab except in piety

    It also conflicts with the Prophet's (saw) instructions on the impermissibility of boasting about one's forefathers, he (saw) said: "Allah most high has removed from you the shame of ignorance and their (habit of) boasting about their fathers. The people are all Adam's (as) children and Adam (as) is from dust, (the people are) a pious believer and a wicked sinner. Those of you boasting about men who are fuel for hell-fire should desist otherwise they will certainly be more insignificant before Allah than the beetle that rolls dung with its nose."]

    That's Albani's words and he's more Salafi than Ibn Taymiyyah who was a Hanbali.
    Al-Albanee said in As-Silsilah Ad-Da’eefah 163:

    “The (جنس )of Arabs is better than the (جنس ) of the rest of nations. This is what I believe, adopt as creed and consider as part of religion.
    Even though I am Albanian, I am a Muslim, praise to Allah.
    The virtue of the (جنس (of Arabs is the position of Ahlussunnah Wal-jamaa’ah. It is proven by many Hadeeths.”

  10. #129
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    Abu Sufyaan doesn't believe that If an Arab and non Arab have exactly the same taqwa, then the Arab is more beloved to Allah
    What means that the Arab is just better, in the dunya, and Allah knows best why he choose them

    He also does not mean any Arab can say he is better then a non Arab, I can assure you that aswell

    What he is saying is correct, he is just saying it poorly
    did you jist ignore his post? linked quoted him.
    Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

    If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

  11. #130
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by As-Suhoobiyah View Post
    As other people have noted before, if you hold such a position you are no longer part of Ahlus Sunnah.

    The position you seem to be holding is the position of a sect called As-Suhoobiyah who are considered to be deviants by Ahlus Sunnah scholars.

    Shaikhul Islaam ibn Taymiyyah said in Iqtidaa’ As-Siraat al-Mustaqeem:
    The belief of Ahlussunnati waJamaa’ah is that the essence of Arabs is better than that of ‘Ajam, whether the ‘Ajam
    are Hebrew, Assyrians, Romans, Persians or others.
    Quraish is the best of Arabs, Bani Hashim are the best of Quaish, and Muhammad ASWS is the best of Bani Hashim.
    Therefore, Muhammad ASWS is the best of humanity, both in person and in lineage.
    The virtue of Arabs, Quraish and then Bani Hashim is not just because the Prophet ASWS was from them, even
    though this is a part of virtue. Arabs are in themselves better. This is how it is proven that the Prophet ASWS is the
    best in person and lineage. Otherwise, a revolving argument will generate.3

    Abu Muhammad Harb bin Ismail al-Kirmaani, the companion of Imam Ahmad, described his book of Sunnah by
    saying:
    "This is the belief of Imaams of knowledge, those of Athar and well known people of Sunnah, which have been taken as examples. It is the belief of scholars of Iraq, Hijaaz, Sham and others.
    Whomever goes against any of these Madhaahib, attacks them or despises those adopting them is a person of Bid’ah, he would be outside of Jamaa’ah, and inconsistent with the way of Sunnah and path of truth. It is the Madhab of Ahmad, Ishaaq bin Ibrahim bin Makhlad, Abdullah bin Az-zubair, al-Humaidee, Sa’eed bin Mansoor, and others with whom we have sat and from whom we have acquired knowledge.
    the brtother desnt believe that.

    EDIT: auto sign out is terrible. I had a really long reply
    Last edited by Abdell; 23-09-17 at 04:34 PM.
    Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

    If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

  12. #131

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by TripolySunni View Post

    Al-Albani who is also a big Salafi when commenting on this weak narration:

    أنا عربي ، و القرآن عربي ، و لسان أهل الجنة عربي

    [He (saw) said: I am an Arab, the Qur'an is Arabic and the tongue of the dwellers of heaven is Arabic.]

    He says:

    ومما يدل على بطلان نسبة هذا الحديث إليه صلى الله عليه وسلم أن فيه افتخاره صلى الله عليه وسلم بعروبته و هذا شيء غريب في الشرع الإسلامي لا يلتئم مع قوله تعالى إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقاكم و قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم لا فضل لعربي على عجمي ... إلا بالتقوى ولا مع نهيه صلى الله عليه وسلم عن الافتخار بالآباء وهو قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم إن الله عز وجل أذهب عنكم عبية الجاهلية و فخرها بالآباء ، الناس بنو آدم ، و آدم من تراب ، مؤمن تقي و فاجر شقي ، لينتهين أقوام يفتخرون برجال إنما هم فحم من فحم جهنم ، أو ليكونن أهون على الله من الجعلان التي تدفع النتن بأفواها

    [What proves the corruption of this attribution to the Prophet (saw) is that it contains boasting about the lineage and that he (saw) boasts about his Arabism and this is an odd thing to do according to Islamic law.

    It disagrees with Allah's words {Surely the noblest among you in the sight of God is the most godfearing} and with his own words (saw): "There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab except in piety

    It also conflicts with the Prophet's (saw) instructions on the impermissibility of boasting about one's forefathers, he (saw) said: "Allah most high has removed from you the shame of ignorance and their (habit of) boasting about their fathers. The people are all Adam's (as) children and Adam (as) is from dust, (the people are) a pious believer and a wicked sinner. Those of you boasting about men who are fuel for hell-fire should desist otherwise they will certainly be more insignificant before Allah than the beetle that rolls dung with its nose."]

    That's Albani's words and he's more Salafi than Ibn Taymiyyah who was a Hanbali.
    It is true it is not a salafi thing, for large periods of history this was the beliefs and understanding of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah.

    However, wrong information was given about Al-Albani.

    Al-Albanee said in As-Silsilah Ad-Da’eefah 163:
    “The (جنس (of Arabs is better than the (جنس (of the rest of nations. This is what I believe, adopt as creed and
    consider as part of religion.
    Even though I am Albanian, I am a Muslim, praise to Allah.
    The virtue of the (جنس (of Arabs is the position of Ahlussunnah Wal-jamaa’ah. It is proven by many Hadeeths.”

  13. #132
    Al-Hanbali Abu-Sufyaan's Avatar
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by TripolySunni View Post

    He says:

    وما ذكرنا من حكم اللسان العربي وأخلاق العرب، يثبت لمن كان كذلك وإن كان أصله فارسياً، وينتفي عمن لم يكن كذلك وإن كان أصله هاشمياً

    [What we mentioned about the rulings pertaining to the Arabic tongue and Arab morals is established/applied to anyone who has them even if he's of Persian origins and it doesn't establish/apply to the one who does not possess them (Arabic tongue and morals) even if he's originally a Hashemite.]

    Then he quotes this narration:

    إنَّ الرب واحد، والأبُ واحد، والدَين واحد، وإنَّ العربيةَ ليست لأحدكم بأبٍ ولا أمّ، إنما هي لسانَّ، فمنْ تكلَّمَ بالعربيةِ فهو عربي

    [The Lord is one, the father is one and the religion is one; Arabic is not a father or mother to any of you, it is only a tongue, so whoever speaks it then he is Arab.]

    He says "The meaning of this report is correct."


    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post

    Again the prpblem here is the typical non-Arab probably has no idea that he would be considered Arab by classical scholars if he was fluent and followed Arab tradition.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Foodadad View Post
    There is one quoted. Your question is already answered.

    Ok your taking ibn taymeya's saying out of its contexts


    1/ you said:

    وما ذكرنا من حكم اللسان العربي وأخلاق العرب، يثبت لمن كان كذلك وإن كان أصله فارسياً، وينتفي عمن لم يكن كذلك وإن كان أصله هاشمياً

    [What we mentioned about the rulings pertaining to the Arabic tongue and Arab morals is established/applied to anyone who has them even if he's of Persian origins and it doesn't establish/apply to the one who does not possess them (Arabic tongue and morals) even if he's originally a Hashemite.]

    ** He mentioned this in his book اقتضاء الصراط and he was talking about the theme of imitating the kuffar, so he meant if you speak arabic and neglect the kuffar culture even if you are not arab you are not sinning.

    That's why he said just after what you quoted " والمقصود هنا أن ما ذكرته من النهي عن التشبه بالأعاجم إنما العبرة فيه بما كان عليه صدر الإسلام"

    What is meant here is what is mentioned in the prohibition on imitating the non-arabs....

    and what he said is clear if someone from qurash or from the prophet's lineage and he is Imitating the kufar in its language or culture he is sinning and if someone who is non-arab is not doing that is not sinning.

    So he was talking about something else and didn't mention that if you speak arabic you are an arab, Arab is the sense that you become of arab race.

    My question is that If i speak urdu I'm supposed to be an indian?

    2/again you didn't quote the full text :

    عن مالك بن أنس، عن الزهري، عن أبي سلمة بن عبد الرحمن قال: «جاء قيس بن حطاطة (2) إلى حلقة فيها صهيب الرومي (3) وسلمان الفارسي، وبلال الحبشي، فقال: هذا الأوس والخزرج قد قاموا بنصرة هذا الرجل فما بال هؤلاء؟ فقام معاذ بن جبل فأخذ بتلابيبه، ثم أتى به النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فأخبره بمقالته، فقام النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم مغضبا يجر رداءه حتى دخل المسجد، ثم نودي: أن (4) الصلاة جامعة، فصعد المنبر، فحمد الله وأثنى عليه ثم قال: " أما بعد: أيها الناس، فإن الرب رب واحد، والأب أب واحد، والدين دين واحد، وإن العربية ليست لأحدكم بأب ولا أم، إنما هي لسان، فمن تكلم بالعربية فهو عربي "، فقام معاذ بن جبل فقال: بم تأمرنا في هذا المنافق؟ فقال: " دعه إلى النار» . فكان قيس ممن ارتد فقتل في الردة

    I won't translate the whole story

    but it's a very weak story about someone who had jaheleya beliefs-taking a pride in his lineage and of course it's haram- so the prophet punished him then he said "The Lord is one, the father is one and the religion is one; Arabic is not a father or mother to any of you, it is only a tongue, so whoever speaks it then he is Arab."

    but ibn taymeya said after it

    "this story is weak but it is correctly in some ways"

    he did'nt said ""The meaning of this report is correct."" LIKE YOU SAID!!

    he meant that arab and non-arab can't have any jahelya beliefs that's a part of the story.

    that's why he said just before this hadith about another weak one "من تكلم بالعربية فهو عربي" "whoever speaks Arabic he is an arab"

    then ibn taymemay said after it :

    "if this hadith is sahih it would be an evidence that whoever speak Arabic he is an arab"

    so ibn tyamemya didn't say if someone speaks arabic he is an arab but he said IF the hadith is sahih- and of course this hadith is very very weak- that would be an evidence!!
    (But even then would it mean complete arab)????

    So where did ibn taymeya said clearly that whoever speak arabic is an arab??

    Please stop taking ibn taymeyah's saying out if its context and bring his full kalaam!!!

    and how could he said that and the main hadith that he took as evidence was ("Indeed Allah has chosen Isma'il from the children of Ibrahim, and He chose Banu Kinanah from the children of Isma'il, and He chose the Quraish from Banu Kinanah, and He chose Banu Hashim from Quraish, and He chose me from Banu Hashim.")
    as you see the hadith is very clear about the offspring.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post
    did you jist ignore his post? linked quoted him.

    What @abufulaans said what I meant

    You are the one who ignoring my posts

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    So what if they are (or aren't)? It's not a big deal. Allah may favour any race or person as Allah wills.

    A Muslim is better than a non-Muslim and there are many Arab non-Muslims, so what does that tell you? It's not as simple as Arabs are better without exception. There is truth to the statement that Arabs are "superior", but not in the way think in that it's not as simple as that.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morose View Post
    A Muslim is better than a non-Muslim and there are many Arab non-Muslims, so what does that tell you? I.
    That if they became Muslims they would have a natural superiority over other non Arab Muslims.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morose View Post
    So what if they are (or aren't)? It's not a big deal. Allah may favour any race or person as Allah wills.

    A Muslim is better than a non-Muslim and there are many Arab non-Muslims, so what does that tell you? It's not as simple as Arabs are better without exception. There is truth to the statement that Arabs are "superior", but not in the way think in that it's not as simple as that.
    Ok, so what do you say to all those shaykhs and preachers who brainwash non-muslims and convert non-muslims by deliberately giving a false impression that orthodox Islam is the least racist religion when in truth as this thread has shown orthodox Islam or Islam as understood by the scholars is literally one of the most racist and supremacist religion in the world.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by As-Suhoobiyah View Post
    Ok, so what do you say to all those shaykhs and preachers who brainwash non-muslims and convert non-muslims by deliberately giving a false impression that orthodox Islam is the least racist religion when in truth as this thread has shown orthodox Islam or Islam as understood by the scholars is literally one of the most racist and supremacist religion in the world.
    How is it racist? If a person however distorts the meaning of superiority here then that's false and his wrongdoing but Islam isn't a racist religion.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morose View Post
    How is it racist? If a person however distorts the meaning of superiority here then that's false and his wrongdoing but Islam isn't a racist religion.
    The essence of an arab is better than the essence of non-arab.

    If this statement is not racist and does not promote racial supremacism then I don't know what is. And this is the belief of the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    That if they became Muslims they would have a natural superiority over other non Arab Muslims.
    it's dunya stuff has no relationship with akhera

    like Allah said here:

    Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 247:
    وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نَبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ بَعَثَ لَكُمْ طَالُوتَ مَلِكًا قَالُوا أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ عَلَيْنَا وَنَحْنُ أَحَقُّ بِالْمُلْكِ مِنْهُ وَلَمْ يُؤْتَ سَعَةً مِّنَ الْمَالِ قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَاهُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَزَادَهُ بَسْطَةً فِي الْعِلْمِ وَالْجِسْمِ وَاللَّهُ يُؤْتِي مُلْكَهُ مَن يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

    And their prophet said to them: Surely Allah has raised Talut to be a king over you. They said: How can he hold kingship over us while we have a greater right to kingship than he, and he has not been granted an abundance of wealth? He said: Surely Allah has chosen him in preference to you, and He has increased him abundantly in knowledge and physique, and Allah grants His kingdom to whom He pleases, and Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.
    (English - Shakir)

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    it's dunya stuff has no relationship with akhera

    like Allah said here:

    Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 247:
    وَقَالَ لَهُمْ نَبِيُّهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ بَعَثَ لَكُمْ طَالُوتَ مَلِكًا قَالُوا أَنَّىٰ يَكُونُ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ عَلَيْنَا وَنَحْنُ أَحَقُّ بِالْمُلْكِ مِنْهُ وَلَمْ يُؤْتَ سَعَةً مِّنَ الْمَالِ قَالَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ اصْطَفَاهُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَزَادَهُ بَسْطَةً فِي الْعِلْمِ وَالْجِسْمِ وَاللَّهُ يُؤْتِي مُلْكَهُ مَن يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

    And their prophet said to them: Surely Allah has raised Talut to be a king over you. They said: How can he hold kingship over us while we have a greater right to kingship than he, and he has not been granted an abundance of wealth? He said: Surely Allah has chosen him in preference to you, and He has increased him abundantly in knowledge and physique, and Allah grants His kingdom to whom He pleases, and Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.
    (English - Shakir)
    You have all been repeating your superior rhetoric and saying it's dunya stuff, but fail to exactly explain what all of it means.

    What exactly does it mean that an Arab is better than a non Arab?

    And that verse has nothing to do with being 'better', it'sa bout someone being granted a position of authority over others, that doesn't make others inferior or worse somehow.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    What means that the Arab is just better, in the dunya
    What does that even mean? Better how? What does better mean? Throwing ambiguous words around won't bring us anywhere. State your beliefs explicitly.

    What are the results of this supposed 'betterness'? What are the effects?
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    So according to the logic of those who disagree with the Ijmaa' as claimed by Ibn Taymiyyah and Harb al-Kirmani and hereto not challenged by any other scholars, it is perfectly good to say that Mexicans are better than Arabs or Europeans are better than Arabs
    What are you even saying?
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post

    What exactly does it mean that an Arab is better than a non Arab?

    .
    Means that Allah has chose the whole race like tha hadith said

    Why did Allah do that?

    surat al hajj 75( God chooses messengers from among the angels, and from among the people. God is Hearing and Seeing.)

    surat al zukhrouff 32 (and We elevated some of them in rank above others)

    surat al baqara ( He said: Surely Allah has chosen him in preference to you, and He has increased him abundantly in knowledge and physique, and Allah grants His kingdom to whom He pleases, and Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.)

    and ibn taymeya supposed that Allah has chose them after he said "wallahu Alaam" he meant that it's Allah's hikma and fadl before anything else.

    he said:

    سبب هذا الفضل - والله أعلم - ما اختصوا به في عقولهم وألسنتهم وأخلاقهم وأعمالهم ، وذلك أن الفضل إما بالعلم النافع ، وإما بالعمل الصالح ، والعلم له مبدأ ، وهو قوة العقل الذي هو الحفظ والفهم ، وتمام وهو قوة المنطق الذي هو البيان والعبارة ، والعرب هم أفهم من غيرهم ، وأحفظ وأقدر على البيان والعبارة ، ولسانهم أتم الألسنة بيانا ، وتمييزا للمعاني جمعا وفرقا ، يجمع المعاني الكثيرة في اللفظ القليل .
    وأما العمل فإن مبناه على الأخلاق ، وهي الغرائز المخلوقة في النفس ، وغرائزهم أطوع للخير من غيرهم ، فهم أقرب للسخاء والحلم والشجاعة والوفاء وغير ذلك من الأخلاق المحمودة

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    4) Then finally read this thread to see if you are worshiping Allah or Ibn Taymiyyah: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)


    Assalamu alaykom

    A part of me sees you as a sincere individual. Though I disagree with you in a major way , I do not sense that you are trolling or being insincere. But sincerity does not necessarily lead to truth. You can sincerely believe in falsehood via logical / scriptural fallacies.

    What sincerity does enable , is the ability to reason and show humility. So my intent is just to point out your flaws , hoping your sincerity will grant you stability , by Allah's Will.

    Your understanding of Shaykh worship is completely extreme and in fact , it is an innovation. Using your reasoning , it is better for us to just do away with the Scholarly tradition which has preeceded us , out of fear of Shaykh worship. Scholars are useless , we have the Quran / Hadith , and what ever does not 'conform' is associating partners with Allah.

    This understanding is flawed , the "Rabbi worship" of the Jews is not comparable to following the mainstream scholars while they are intending and deriving Ahkam from the Sacred Law upon the principles laid out by the Salaf as Salih.

    Even if the scholars are in error in matters which exists ikhtilaf or requires Ijtihad , they receive good deeds which the hadith mentions. Following the position of a scholar you believe has taqwa / I'm , even if he is wrong will not constitute as shirk. Many issues of dispute can go more than one way and this is known theologically speaking , from the " Hadith of Banu Quraydah"

    The Jews and Christians are blameworthy for taking their Rabbis and Priests as Gods besides Allah , in the most truest sense.

    1) Christians ignore the direct commands and teachings of the Biblical Jesus as he calls them to obediance to the Torah. 97% of Christians acknowledge the 'apostle Paul' as a religious authority , and his central teaching was that Jesus died as a curse so that we would be free from the Law ( Torah ). Christians do not follow any law , they follow their nafs and when questioned on this , they quote Paul and negate Jesus.

    As the Hadith says " Did they not make halal what Allah made haram .. ?"

    2) The Jews of Madina disputed directly with the Prophet (saws) as to ruling by what Allah revealed in their Torah. There are ahadith pertaining to this very issue , they refused to stone the adulters , even though it was the clear Hukm in their Torah. The Prophet(saws) then went on to stone them , and he could do such a thing , considering that he was their ruler.

    Do you recognise the difference ? Imagine how much havoc one can commit , pointing out all the difference of opinions - then recognizing himself the most dhahiri satisfying answer , and oppressing others as mushrikeen.

    Quote the hadith of raf ul yadayn ( from Bukhari ) to ignorant hanafi laymen then say " Shaykh worship / quote verses of obediance to the Messenger / scholars as Gods )
    But that is clear cut extremism that no scholar of fiqh would say ( at least I have never come across such standards )

    Why don't you study Islam in depth and become a scholar? Are you incompetent? Life is holding you down? You are not strong and patient enough to dedicate yourself 24/7 in studying Islam? If so , then you respect those who do that ( the scholars , especially the high calibre ones ) , perhaps they are not wrong. Actually , from a logical standpoint , it is 99% chance they are right and you are wrong. If you deny this based on your novice reading of the Quran and lack of every other necessary form of ilm and sound principle required , then you are openly and shamelessly arrogant.

    1) Ibn Taymiyyah did not innovate a concept of Arab prefernce / honour / superiority.

    2) Imam Nawawi prohibits the marriage of an Arab female to a non Arab male , if I am not mistaken.

    A) He preceeds Ibn Taymiyyah , so it can never be Ibn Taymiyyahs innovation.

    B) He is not Salafi / Athari. He is Ashari in Aqidah and Salafis disagree with him on certain known issues. Therefore it is not a 'Salafi' contention or problem , it is a Sunni position and it is the reality , and this is known with common sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    1) Subhanallah. I swear by Allah if Islam taught what you said here, I would have left Islam a long time ago:
    My intent is not to belittle you as a person , and perhaps you can at least see where I am coming from as well.

    This is proof that your Islam is not founded in noble and far-reaching concepts. This statement is a shortcoming , as far as Submission and Taqwa are concerned. Islam means submission. We don't impose our views on to Islam , we submit regardless of what is being proposed.

    Allah has infinite knowledge , you are limited and also susceptible to incoherent reasoning. If Allah prefered certain people over others , then Allah is correct. Allah is correct by definition. Orthodox Islam is the religion of Allah. The sincere believer has no choice but to submit.

    That is all I have the time for at this moment. Hope the message was expressed well , apologise for the lack of reference , I am on a phone.

    Wa Allahu alam

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Means that Allah has chose the whole race like tha hadith said

    Why did Allah do that?

    surat al hajj 75( God chooses messengers from among the angels, and from among the people. God is Hearing and Seeing.)

    surat al zukhrouff 32 (and We elevated some of them in rank above others)

    surat al baqara ( He said: Surely Allah has chosen him in preference to you, and He has increased him abundantly in knowledge and physique, and Allah grants His kingdom to whom He pleases, and Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.)

    and ibn taymeya said why Allah has chose them after he said "wallahu Alaam" he meant that it's Allah's hikma and fadl.

    he said:

    سبب هذا الفضل - والله أعلم - ما اختصوا به في عقولهم وألسنتهم وأخلاقهم وأعمالهم ، وذلك أن الفضل إما بالعلم النافع ، وإما بالعمل الصالح ، والعلم له مبدأ ، وهو قوة العقل الذي هو الحفظ والفهم ، وتمام وهو قوة المنطق الذي هو البيان والعبارة ، والعرب هم أفهم من غيرهم ، وأحفظ وأقدر على البيان والعبارة ، ولسانهم أتم الألسنة بيانا ، وتمييزا للمعاني جمعا وفرقا ، يجمع المعاني الكثيرة في اللفظ القليل .
    وأما العمل فإن مبناه على الأخلاق ، وهي الغرائز المخلوقة في النفس ، وغرائزهم أطوع للخير من غيرهم ، فهم أقرب للسخاء والحلم والشجاعة والوفاء وغير ذلك من الأخلاق المحمودة
    Umm, yeah that doesn't answer my question and still keeps us at square one. I am not asking why Allah chose them. I am asking what is the meaning and what are the effects of Allah choosing them.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Means that Allah has chose the whole race like tha hadith said

    Why did Allah do that?

    surat al hajj 75( God chooses messengers from among the angels, and from among the people. God is Hearing and Seeing.)

    surat al zukhrouff 32 (and We elevated some of them in rank above others)

    surat al baqara ( He said: Surely Allah has chosen him in preference to you, and He has increased him abundantly in knowledge and physique, and Allah grants His kingdom to whom He pleases, and Allah is Amplegiving, Knowing.)

    and ibn taymeya said why Allah has chose them after he said "wallahu Alaam" he meant that it's Allah's hikma and fadl.

    he said:

    سبب هذا الفضل - والله أعلم - ما اختصوا به في عقولهم وألسنتهم وأخلاقهم وأعمالهم ، وذلك أن الفضل إما بالعلم النافع ، وإما بالعمل الصالح ، والعلم له مبدأ ، وهو قوة العقل الذي هو الحفظ والفهم ، وتمام وهو قوة المنطق الذي هو البيان والعبارة ، والعرب هم أفهم من غيرهم ، وأحفظ وأقدر على البيان والعبارة ، ولسانهم أتم الألسنة بيانا ، وتمييزا للمعاني جمعا وفرقا ، يجمع المعاني الكثيرة في اللفظ القليل .
    وأما العمل فإن مبناه على الأخلاق ، وهي الغرائز المخلوقة في النفس ، وغرائزهم أطوع للخير من غيرهم ، فهم أقرب للسخاء والحلم والشجاعة والوفاء وغير ذلك من الأخلاق المحمودة
    When Hulagu Khan conquered Baghdad, he mass killed arab men and mass violated their women infront of them. Even after the eventual disintegration of Mongols, arabs were ruled over by Tukrs.

    Right today Syrian arab women are selling their bodies for cash in refugee camps.

    Doesn't seem like "elevation" to me.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid_ View Post
    An eminent Scholar of the past that believed Arabs were superior to non-Arabs, and anyone who doesn't accept this is branded an innovator and a deviant. And no, I'm not a Salafi.
    I have heard such hadithes too. I think these hadithes mean the greatness of Rasulullah PBUH and not a race. Because racism is prohibited and it is contrary to Quran. A hadith can not contradict Quran in phrase or meaning.

    But this statement that "Arabs or Quraish are superior" reminds me that sentence of Quran that """O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations (2:47) """

    However there is a big difference, Islam is not a religion for Arabs or Quraish it is the religion for all the world contrary to the religion of Israel tribe. Regardless of this, I think existence of Rasulullah PBUH among Arabs or Quraish is not just a favor rather it has been a great responsibility for them.

    Considering this I tell you that Quraish or Arabs made many mistakes the same as how Israel tribe did. There are also hadithes that what happened in Israel tribe would happen in this Ummah too.

    So not only such hadithes can not show the superiority of Quraish or Arabs in a racial sense, rather these hadithes show the great responsibility of Quraish and Arabs, unfortunately history shows they could not preserve this favor.

    Have you paid attention why Quran tells the story of Israel tribe so much !? sometimes Quran looks like a history book which is mainly focused on Israel tribe ! The most repeated name in Quran is Moses AS !
    Last edited by ALAS; 23-09-17 at 05:55 PM.
    Note: I am a shia.

  29. #148
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    What @abufulaans said what I meant

    You are the one who ignoring my posts
    no you buffon racist. You Explicilty said Arabs are superior even if taqwa is equal. Get your racist trash out of here. If i see you IRL am bcertianly going to slap your face you liar.
    Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

    If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    Assalamu alaykom

    A part of me sees you as a sincere individual. Though I disagree with you in a major way , I do not sense that you are trolling or being insincere. But sincerity does not necessarily lead to truth. You can sincerely believe in falsehood via logical / scriptural fallacies.

    What sincerity does enable , is the ability to reason and show humility. So my intent is just to point out your flaws , hoping your sincerity will grant you stability , by Allah's Will.

    Your understanding of Shaykh worship is completely extreme and in fact , it is an innovation. Using your reasoning , it is better for us to just do away with the Scholarly tradition which has preeceded us , out of fear of Shaykh worship. Scholars are useless , we have the Quran / Hadith , and what ever does not 'conform' is associating partners with Allah.

    This understanding is flawed , the "Rabbi worship" of the Jews is not comparable to following the mainstream scholars while they are intending and deriving Ahkam from the Sacred Law upon the principles laid out by the Salaf as Salih.

    Even if the scholars are in error in matters which exists ikhtilaf or requires Ijtihad , they receive good deeds which the hadith mentions. Following the position of a scholar you believe has taqwa / I'm , even if he is wrong will not constitute as shirk. Many issues of dispute can go more than one way and this is known theologically speaking , from the " Hadith of Banu Quraydah"

    The Jews and Christians are blameworthy for taking their Rabbis and Priests as Gods besides Allah , in the most truest sense.

    1) Christians ignore the direct commands and teachings of the Biblical Jesus as he calls them to obediance to the Torah. 97% of Christians acknowledge the 'apostle Paul' as a religious authority , and his central teaching was that Jesus died as a curse so that we would be free from the Law ( Torah ). Christians do not follow any law , they follow their nafs and when questioned on this , they quote Paul and negate Jesus.

    As the Hadith says " Did they not make halal what Allah made haram .. ?"

    2) The Jews of Madina disputed directly with the Prophet (saws) as to ruling by what Allah revealed in their Torah. There are ahadith pertaining to this very issue , they refused to stone the adulters , even though it was the clear Hukm in their Torah. The Prophet(saws) then went on to stone them , and he could do such a thing , considering that he was their ruler.

    Do you recognise the difference ? Imagine how much havoc one can commit , pointing out all the difference of opinions - then recognizing himself the most dhahiri satisfying answer , and oppressing others as mushrikeen.

    Quote the hadith of raf ul yadayn ( from Bukhari ) to ignorant hanafi laymen then say " Shaykh worship / quote verses of obediance to the Messenger / scholars as Gods )
    But that is clear cut extremism that no scholar of fiqh would say ( at least I have never come across such standards )

    Why don't you study Islam in depth and become a scholar? Are you incompetent? Life is holding you down? You are not strong and patient enough to dedicate yourself 24/7 in studying Islam? If so , then you respect those who do that ( the scholars , especially the high calibre ones ) , perhaps they are not wrong. Actually , from a logical standpoint , it is 99% chance they are right and you are wrong. If you deny this based on your novice reading of the Quran and lack of every other necessary form of ilm and sound principle required , then you are openly and shamelessly arrogant.

    1) Ibn Taymiyyah did not innovate a concept of Arab prefernce / honour / superiority.

    2) Imam Nawawi prohibits the marriage of an Arab female to a non Arab male , if I am not mistaken.

    A) He preceeds Ibn Taymiyyah , so it can never be Ibn Taymiyyahs innovation.

    B) He is not Salafi / Athari. He is Ashari in Aqidah and Salafis disagree with him on certain known issues. Therefore it is not a 'Salafi' contention or problem , it is a Sunni position and it is the reality , and this is known with common sense.



    My intent is not to belittle you as a person , and perhaps you can at least see where I am coming from as well.

    This is proof that your Islam is not founded in noble and far-reaching concepts. This statement is a shortcoming , as far as Submission and Taqwa are concerned. Islam means submission. We don't impose our views on to Islam , we submit regardless of what is being proposed.

    Allah has infinite knowledge , you are limited and also susceptible to incoherent reasoning. If Allah prefered certain people over others , then Allah is correct. Allah is correct by definition. Orthodox Islam is the religion of Allah. The sincere believer has no choice but to submit.

    That is all I have the time for at this moment. Hope the message was expressed well , apologise for the lack of reference , I am on a phone.

    Wa Allahu alam
    1) I already responded to you. Please reflect on what I said to you in this thread: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)

    2) To be honest with you, I do not see you as a person sincere to Allah. This is my last post here, for real this time inshallah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    May Allah grant me sincerity. I have shortcomings in both my personality and knowledge.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post
    no you buffon racist. You Explicilty said Arabs are superior even if taqwa is equal. Get your racist trash out of here. If i see you IRL am bcertianly going to slap your face you liar.
    you know what..

    I regret that I entered this forum and talked to someone like you who saying this because we disagreed on a issue of fiqh.- I still believe there'no ikhtilaf in this issue tho-

    btw slapping face is haram if you know that.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    What does that even mean? Better how? What does better mean? Throwing ambiguous words around won't bring us anywhere. State your beliefs explicitly.

    What are the results of this supposed 'betterness'? What are the effects?
    Allahu A'lam
    Some scholars mentioned it, but really only Allah knows, there is no clear daleel telling us the hikmah, for example Ibn Taymiyyah said they have a better understanding and more intellect, but even he said Allah knows best

    We must be clear though that it in no way means Allah likes Arab muslims more than non Arab Muslims, rather Allah loves the one with more taqwa the most
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by As-Suhoobiyah View Post
    When Hulagu Khan conquered Baghdad, he mass killed arab men and mass violated their women infront of them. Even after the eventual disintegration of Mongols, arabs were ruled over by Tukrs.

    Right today Syrian arab women are selling their bodies for cash in refugee camps.

    Doesn't seem like "elevation" to me.

    (Most surely We will support Our messengers and those who believe, in this life, and on the Day the witnesses arise) 40/51

    And Muslims are being killed Every time everywhere...

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    May Allah grant me sincerity. I have shortcomings in both my personality and knowledge.
    Off topic.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    Allahu A'lam
    Some scholars mentioned it, but really only Allah knows, there is no clear daleel telling us the hikmah, for example Ibn Taymiyyah said they have a better understanding and more intellect, but even he said Allah knows best

    We must be clear though that it in no way means Allah likes Arab muslims more than non Arab Muslims, rather Allah loves the one with more taqwa the most
    So Arabs are 'better' but we have no clue what that even means or signifies, but yeah they're superior and better. Got it.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    So Arabs are 'better' but we have no clue what that even means or signifies, but yeah they're superior and better. Got it.
    You didn't answer my question about the khilafah..

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post
    no you buffon racist. You Explicilty said Arabs are superior even if taqwa is equal. Get your racist trash out of here. If i see you IRL am bcertianly going to slap your face you liar.
    What does he mean by superior
    You don't even know what he means by superior yet you call him racist akhi
    Last edited by abufulaans; 23-09-17 at 06:30 PM.
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    So Arabs are 'better' but we have no clue what that even means or signifies, but yeah they're superior and better. Got it.
    Yes there is no clear daleel, just like we don't know why quraysh deserve khilaafah
    Son, Allah chooses whoever he wills
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    @AbuNajm

    The Arabic language in present times being superior I have no problems due to the Quran but that opens up the can of worms with regards to "hebrew" which several more scriptures were written in. You have not provided any proof of the 'unchoosing' of the Isrealites from the Quran or Sunnah which you stated.

    We know what the Arabic culture in Jaahiliya was and how primitive and backward to the point they buried their own daughters alive and much more vile stuff mentioned in the Quran/Sunnah, some of these things (burying daughter alive) no other recorded nation did this heinous crime.

    However it was Islam that reformed that decadent Jaahili culture, hence when you talk about Arabic culture post Jaahiliya I and many others see that as an Islamic culture that one should imitate, the same way if I am imitating the Prophet, I am not imitating Arab culture but the very best of Islamic culture/etiquette/characters that is pleasing to Allah.

    This has nothing to do with "Arab" culture or any other culture whatsoever, this is the very essence of Islam. We know the Prophet wore "Persian overgarment" , the Hibrah Yemeni cloak (Yemen was ruled by the people from the Horn of Africa during the time of the Prophet for a 1000 or so years), in fact the hadith states most of the garments came from there, as well qitaabi fabric imported Syria/Egypt worn by Copts.

    Imitating him is not imitating Arabic culture but Islam, I don't know why you are conflating these two, I would wear a Khamiis because the Prophet loved it, not because the Arab's worse it, in fact the Khamiis was not new to the Arabs at all, many different nations that preceded it wore it, the proof is in the pudding because of were they imported them from.


    https://islamqa.info/en/126692

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    You didn't answer my question about the khilafah..
    This thread is not about that.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

 

 

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