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    Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    When the prophet (SAW) said: there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab?

    Why you believe that everyone who doesn't accept the tafdhil (superiority) of the Arab race, is a deviant and innovator, when you are giving precedence to Salafis scholars' rulings over the rulings of the prophet (SAW)? Why hasn't the superiority of the Arab race ever mentioned in the Quran or authentic hadiths?

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR (Afdal) than Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars – ‘Al-Jamhoor’- .

    He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Qurai****e nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majm’u Al-Fataawa 19/29

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote:

    “Verily, what Ahlul Sunnah is upon: Is the BELIEF (I’tiqaad) that the Arab race is better (Afdal) then the Non-Arab race. Whether (the Non-Arabs) are Hebrews, Aramaic, Romans, Persians and other than them…”. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/419

    Abu Muhammad, Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (died 280 – ra) who was one of the students and companions of Imaam Ahmed (ra) also mentioned this point when he wrote about the descriptions and BELIEFS of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH.


    Shiekh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:

    “Know that the Ahaadith (that show) the superiority of Quraish and then the superiority of Bani Haashim are numerous and this is not the place (to gather all of them) but they also prove this (superiority of the Arab over Non-Arabs).

    And this is due to the fact that the relationship of Quraish to the Arabs is just like the relationship of the Arabs to the rest of the people (i.e. Qurai****es are superior to Non-Qurai****es and the Arabs are superior to Non-Arabs). Verily Allah the Most High has designated the Arabs and their language with ‘Ahkaam’ that are peculiar and unique.

    And then He preferred Quraish over the rest of the Arabs in what He has given them of prophecy and other than that from the ‘Khasaais’ (unique and peculiar qualities)”. Iqtidaa As-Siraat-il-Mustaqeem 2/431

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) also said:

    “…The superiority of the Arab race and then (the superiority of) Quraish and then (the superiority of) Bani Haashim, is not simply due to the fact the Prophet (peace be upon him) is from them – even though this is (a point) of superiority – but instead, they themselves are superior within themselves“. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/420



    Source: http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/salafi-imam-we-must-believe-arabs-are-master-race/

  2. #161
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    Yes there is no clear daleel, just like we don't know why quraysh deserve khilaafah
    Son, Allah chooses whoever he wills
    Chooses for what? My question is not why, it is what. Stop mixing the two things up. I am not asking why are Arabs better. I am asking in what way are they better.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    Chooses for what? My question is not why, it is what. Stop mixing the two things up. I am not asking why are Arabs better. I am asking in what way are they better.
    Generally.
    إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    This thread is not about that.
    Ok I asked this question because it has somehow a relationship with the topic we are talking about here.
    إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    Chooses for what? My question is not why, it is what. Stop mixing the two things up. I am not asking why are Arabs better. I am asking in what way are they better.
    Clearly it is due to the honour of having the final Messenger / revelation in their language.

    We are forced to follow someone born to their women (AS) , and learn their language ..

    Do you know how huge of an honour that is? An Arab was chosen by God. Not a Greek , not a Roman , not a persian , not a Hindi.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Generally.
    So they will get better ranks in Jannah? Or they deserve more respect in this dunya? Or you cant marry them if you are non Arab?
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Ok I asked this question because it has somehow a relationship with the topic we are talking about here.
    I don't have knowledge for that question.
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    Chooses for what? My question is not why, it is what. Stop mixing the two things up. I am not asking why are Arabs better. I am asking in what way are they better.
    That is not mentioned, some scholars have stated the reasons of the hikmah behind it so at most we follow that
    But if you asking for something clear cut them I don't know

    We hear and we obey

    You asked previously, what are its implications?

    Well the answer really is not much at all, as Zeeshan stated, it really makes no difference to a Muslim, it's just something we believe as it has come, in no way does it mean they are higher in the sight of Allah, nor does it mean we treat eachother differently
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    So they will get better ranks in Jannah? Or they deserve more respect in this dunya? Or you cant marry them if you are non Arab?

    You just have to believe that Allah has chosen this race and loved this race more that any other races and send his last messenger from this race.

    It has nothing else to do..

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    So they will get better ranks in Jannah? Or they deserve more respect in this dunya? Or you cant marry them if you are non Arab?

    No and no
    Only some scholars mentioned the marriage thing as far as I remember
    Nor does it have any clear daleel
    So no need to follow that opinion
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    You just have to believe that Allah has chosen this race and loved this race more that any other races and send his last messenger from this race.

    It has nothing else to do..
    Are you copying me lol?
    ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by abufulaans View Post
    Are you copying me lol?
    إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

  13. #172
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    So they will get better ranks in Jannah? Or they deserve more respect in this dunya? Or you cant marry them if you are non Arab?
    Abu Sufyan clearly stated an Arab is "Superior" even if the taqwa is the same. Thats ahkira implications.
    Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

    If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muwahid_ View Post
    When the prophet (SAW) said: there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab?

    Why you believe that everyone who doesn't accept the tafdhil (superiority) of the Arab race, is a deviant and innovator, when you are giving precedence to Salafis scholars' rulings over the rulings of the prophet (SAW)? Why hasn't the superiority of the Arab race ever mentioned in the Quran or authentic hadiths?

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR (Afdal) than Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars – ‘Al-Jamhoor’- .

    He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Qurai****e nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majm’u Al-Fataawa 19/29

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote:

    “Verily, what Ahlul Sunnah is upon: Is the BELIEF (I’tiqaad) that the Arab race is better (Afdal) then the Non-Arab race. Whether (the Non-Arabs) are Hebrews, Aramaic, Romans, Persians and other than them…”. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/419

    Abu Muhammad, Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (died 280 – ra) who was one of the students and companions of Imaam Ahmed (ra) also mentioned this point when he wrote about the descriptions and BELIEFS of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH.


    Shiekh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:

    “Know that the Ahaadith (that show) the superiority of Quraish and then the superiority of Bani Haashim are numerous and this is not the place (to gather all of them) but they also prove this (superiority of the Arab over Non-Arabs).

    And this is due to the fact that the relationship of Quraish to the Arabs is just like the relationship of the Arabs to the rest of the people (i.e. Qurai****es are superior to Non-Qurai****es and the Arabs are superior to Non-Arabs). Verily Allah the Most High has designated the Arabs and their language with ‘Ahkaam’ that are peculiar and unique.

    And then He preferred Quraish over the rest of the Arabs in what He has given them of prophecy and other than that from the ‘Khasaais’ (unique and peculiar qualities)”. Iqtidaa As-Siraat-il-Mustaqeem 2/431

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) also said:

    “…The superiority of the Arab race and then (the superiority of) Quraish and then (the superiority of) Bani Haashim, is not simply due to the fact the Prophet (peace be upon him) is from them – even though this is (a point) of superiority – but instead, they themselves are superior within themselves“. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/420



    Source: http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2...e-master-race/
    Fear Allah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by The real Mo View Post
    Fear Allah.
    Wat
    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    I think you should also avoid the books of Ibn Hajar al-Haythami. He wrote a whole book called فضل العرب والنهي عن بغضهم in which he collected hadiith related to the superiority of the Arabs.

    You should also avoid reading books by Ibn Qutaybah [that is if you ever get to know who he is] as he wrote a book called فضل العرب والتنبيه على علومها

    You should avoid reading the books by Imaam al-'IraaQi as he wrote a book called محجة القرب في فضل العرب

    That is a list of a few scholars you should avoid. I will update the list with more classical scholars and contemperary ones who were not Salafi yet said the Arabs were superiror so you can avoid them.

    Finally, you should also avoid reading Imaam al-Nawawi as Ibn Hajar al-asqalaani and al-Shawkaani have shown that he has claimed Ijmaa on an issue when there was none.
    Aren't all those hadith weak and cannot corborate each other? I heard early scholars did not use weak hadith supporting each other.

  17. #176
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    1) I have decided to write one last post to give a better clarity to some Muslims in here:

    2) Firstly, there are only two sources that Allah has obligated upon us to follow:

    A) O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.(Surah 4:59)

    B) And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.(Surah 4:61)

    C) The only statement of the [true] believers when they are called to Allah and His Messenger to judge between them is that they say, "We hear and we obey." And those are the successful.(Surah 24:51)

    D) It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.(Surah 33:36).

    3) So what did Allah and His Messenger say about this matter:

    A) Allah said: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."(Surah 49:13)

    B) Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) said: "Allah does not look at your figures, nor at your attire but He looks at your hearts and accomplishments."

    https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/1/7

    4) Allah does not choose someone based on ethnicity, don't you read the Quran?

    A) But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.(Surah 5:18).

    B) Say, "O you who are Jews, if you claim that you are allies of Allah , excluding the [other] people, then wish for death, if you should be truthful."(Surah 62:6).

    5) So why did Allah choose the Children of Israel and the Sahaba(Mujahideen): Based on their actions, not their ethnicity.

    A) And We certainly gave Moses the Scripture, so do not be in doubt over his meeting. And we made the Torah guidance for the Children of Israel.And We made from among them leaders guiding by Our command when they were patient and [when] they were certain of Our signs.(Surah 32:23-24).

    B) Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward.(Surah 4:95).

    6) Things like being born an Arab has nothing to do with superiority, it is only a favor from Allah just like a person with children and wealth:

    A) Do they think that what We extend to them of wealth and children. Is [because] We hasten for them good things? Rather, they do not perceive.(Surah 23:55-56).

    7) Allah also said:

    A) O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.(Surah 5:54).

    B) "But if the disbelievers deny it, then We have entrusted it to a people who are not therein disbelievers." (Surah 6:89)

    C) "And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you." (Surah 47:38).
    Last edited by Calender121438; 23-09-17 at 10:02 PM.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    1) I have decided to write one last post to give a better clarity to some Muslims in here:

    2) Firstly, there are only two sources that Allah has obligated upon us to follow:

    A) O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.(Surah 4:59)

    B) And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.(Surah 4:61)

    C) The only statement of the [true] believers when they are called to Allah and His Messenger to judge between them is that they say, "We hear and we obey." And those are the successful.(Surah 24:51)

    D) It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.(Surah 33:36).

    3) So what did Allah and His Messenger say about this matter:

    A) Allah said: "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted."(Surah 49:13)

    B) Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) said: "Allah does not look at your figures, nor at your attire but He looks at your hearts and accomplishments."

    https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/1/7

    3) Allah does not choose someone based on ethnicity, don't you read the Quran?

    A) But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.(Surah 5:18).

    B) Say, "O you who are Jews, if you claim that you are allies of Allah , excluding the [other] people, then wish for death, if you should be truthful."(Surah 62:6).

    4) So why did Allah choose the Children of Israel and the Sahaba(Mujahideen): Based on their actions, not their ethnicity.

    A) And We certainly gave Moses the Scripture, so do not be in doubt over his meeting. And we made the Torah guidance for the Children of Israel.And We made from among them leaders guiding by Our command when they were patient and [when] they were certain of Our signs.(Surah 32:23-24).

    B) Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward.(Surah 4:95).

    5) Things like being born an Arab has nothing to do with superiority, it is only a favor from Allah just like a person with children and wealth:

    A) Do they think that what We extend to them of wealth and children. Is [because] We hasten for them good things? Rather, they do not perceive.(Surah 23:55-56).

    6) Allah also said:

    A) O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.(Surah 5:54).

    B) "But if the disbelievers deny it, then We have entrusted it to a people who are not therein disbelievers." (Surah 6:89)

    C) "And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you." (Surah 47:38).
    Assalamu alaykom

    I am not affirming or denying your post , I just have some questions which I am personally curious of. Obviously it is your choice to answer them.

    1) Would you ever consider studying Islam in depth , through the Sunni traditional method?

    2) What is your view on the laymen / scholar as it pertains to deducing ahkam and theological positions?

    3) Who and what is a scholar? Explain this issue in depth , not in a generic way , but with extensive details.

    Peace

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    @Calender121438

    I have read your post patiently. Are you seeking a response , or are you giving us your interpretation , and claiming we are Shaykh worshippers and fake Muslims if we do not agree ( While the scholars who are trained in these matters agree with us , from Maturidi / Ashari's and Salafis .. )

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Allah also "unchose" Bani Isra'eel. However, Bani Isra'eel has a historic "superiority" since no other lineage had as many Prophets remembered until now.

    What people ignore is the downside to being "chosen" by Allah. The Arabs who did not become Muslim are lower than the Christians and Jews in some ways. One of which is that Jizyah is not accepted from the Arab non-Muslim, rather the only options available to them are to fight or convert to Islam.

    Allah also referred to Mushrik Arabs as the "worst in Disbelief and Hypocrisy". So with the "superiority" comes the worst type of condemnation for failure.



    No, "we" can't argue something just because the untrained, unqualified and undisciplined mind of an individual attempts to employ logic to something Tawqeefi.

    In other words, the principle of the superiority of the Arabs over non-Arabs is not based on logic, intellect or reason. Rather the principle is based on something revealed and divinely-inspired.

    So there's no point in attempting to confine the discussion to "logical" proofs, even poorly developed proofs, and argue against the principle.



    Again, this issue is Tawqeefi, not Ijtihadi. In other words, there is no "reason" or intellectual proof at the basis of this Belief. Some scholars have surmised possible 'Ilal or "reasons" for the Belief, but those are Ijtihadi and subject to debate and discusssion.



    Sorry but some of these questions are irrelevant. No one said that Arab "Taqwa" is superior to non-Arab "Taqwa".

    The "kind of superiority" has already been mentioned. There's no reason to extend the parameters of the "superiority" beyond what the scholars mentioned.



    Wrong. Every scholar of Ahl as-Sunnah believes in the superiority of the Arabs over non-Arabs. All of them were/are experts in Tafsir of the Quran.

    You would have to avoid all the works of Ahl as-Sunnah in order to run away from this Belief.



    It is simply a synonym for "preference" or "choice".



    What is the "base of the problem"?



    There is a logical fallacy in the assumptions you make while trying to understand this principle.

    No one said that Arabs have "inherent superiority". Rather the superiority that Arabs have is an "acquired" superiority. In other words, any individual, from any race, can acquire the same superiority that Arabs as a group have, except for the priority given to Quraysh for Khilaafah.

    Likewise, any individual Arab who is deficient in the specific attributes which make Arabs superior to non-Arabs, for example, his or her imitation of the non-Arabs, makes them inferior and even worse than a non-Arab who imitates the Arabs, i.e. utilizes the Arabic language, imitates the Prophet SAWS and Salaf, and adheres to the norms of Maru'ah and Islamic Adab.



    There is racism in every community, Muslim and non-Muslim.

    The difference between Muslim and non-Muslim communities is that Islam provides the solution to racism without claiming that all races/tribes/cultures/nations are equal.

    As Muslims, we all agree that the best among us are the most knowledgeable of Allah's Speech, His Laws, and the Sunnah of His Messenger SAWS.

    All Muslims agree that in order to study Allah's Quran, Laws, and His Messenger's Sunnah, one must know the Arabic language.

    All Muslims agree that the best Muslim is the one that imitates the Prophet SAWS the closest, and this leads to a person adopting all the characteristics, preferences and behavior of the Prophet SAWS, from how he SAWS looked to how he SAWS walked, talked, prayed, slept, ate, interacted, etc.

    Any objective observer of such a person would necessarily arrive at the conclusion that this person is "Arabized" and not belonging to any other race, culture, nation, etc. Even if they were from India, Australia, the USA, UK, Somalia, China, etc.

    Muslims are only experiencing racism amongst ourselves due to abandoning efforts to imitate the Prophet SAWS and abandonment of the Arabic language as our primary language.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    @Calender121438

    I have read your post patiently. Are you seeking a response , or are you giving us your interpretation , and claiming we are Shaykh worshippers and fake Muslims if we do not agree ( While the scholars who are trained in these matters agree with us , from Maturidi / Ashari's and Salafis .. )
    Jahil or mushrik: https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/18/222: http://legacy.quran.com/9/31

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    1) This is my last post in this website: I am done.

    A) Please read this thread carefully and reflect: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)

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    Odan ZeeshanParvez's Avatar
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnerofknowledge View Post
    Aren't all those hadith weak and cannot corborate each other? I heard early scholars did not use weak hadith supporting each other.
    They might be.

    The point I was trying to address is that if you avoid one scholar based on something you should be consistent and avoid the others who said the same thing.

    I also wanted to point out that Ibn Taymiyyah is not alone on this issue as he was falsely accused.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    1) This is my last post in this website: I am done.

    A) Please read this thread carefully and reflect: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)
    You have already said that.

    Now you are just spamming the thread to get attention.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    A new breed of your type seems rampant accusing others of jahl and shirk. A breed who seems not to know too much.

    Hence, let it be known that what you think has no value.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Calender121438 View Post
    1) This is my last post in this website: I am done.

    A) Please read this thread carefully and reflect: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)
    Inshallah: http://legacy.quran.com/18/23-24

  27. #186
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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    What are you even saying?
    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Najm
    it is perfectly good to say that Mexicans are better than Arabs or Europeans are better than Arabs
    If we agree with the logic which states that Arabs are not superior to non-Arabs, then there are two possibilities according to this: 1) non-Arabs are superior to Arabs; or 2) all nations/tribes/races are equal to one another.

    According to opinion #1 based on Shu'ubiyyah, "it is perfectly good to say that Mexicans are better than Arabs or Europeans are better than Arabs."

    According to opinion #2 based on Shu'ubiyyah, it is racist to say any tribe/nation/race is better than another.

    What people in the West have been conditioned to think is that "stereotype=racism", when this necessitates that everyone alive today is "racist" to some extent.

    The definition of "stereotype" is: "a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing."

    An example given in the definition is: "the stereotype of the woman as the carer".

    A person who generalizes or stereotypes a woman is considered "misogynistic" by Western standards. A person who generalizes or stereotypes a race is considered "racist" by Western standards. However, as Muslims we do not follow the values and standards of the West in determining what is "normal" or "standard".

    Many scholars have discussed this matter in depth and with many proofs, both Ijtihadi and Tawqeefi. I don't think it's necessary that we relive the same old disagreements from those people on the forum who refuse to acknowledge the authority of Islamic scholarship in every single discussion.

    However, for those people on the forum who do accept the authority of Islamic scholarship, especially their consensus, then there has to be an attempt to understand the point of view of the scholars. Too often the discussion devolve into individuals asserting and defending their own personal perspectives or opinions.

    I don't think you're doing that @Linkdeutscher, so that is why I'm responding to you.

    Just look at the paradox that is the "superiority" of the Arab over the non-Arab in Islamic beliefs. On one hand, the "superiority" translates into more responsibility and less advantages, i.e. leadership and no Zakaah. The person whose pronunciation of Arabic is best cannot pray behind the one who makes major errors in recitation. And there are a whole host of Fiqh rulings that differ based on a perceived proficiency or deficiency in the "Arabness' of those involved.

    Some people in the discussion have expressed the idea that Allah's choosing the Arabs from which to send Muhammad SAWS was simply "chance" or "arbitrary" so that the ways in which we imitate the Prophet SAWS are in imitation of his person specifically and not "Arabs". This is simply a way of reasoning that the same conclusion as the opposing argument arrived by a different route.

    The Prophet SAWS was an Arab and thus his sayings, actions, behaviors, characteristics, etiquette, norms, preferences, dress, etc. were all codified as either "obligatory" or "recommended". At the moment of codification, the Prophet's "Arabness" became "obligatory" or "recommended" even for the non-Arab.

    As for the person of the Prophet SAWS, then his "Arabness" cannot be divorced from him. No other race can boast of having originated the last and final Prophet, whose personal preferences and habits were codified as "obligatory" or "recommended", thus preserving the best aspects of their own culture for all time and places.

    Some people in this thread have tried to point out some evils that were prevalent among the Arabs in Jahiliyyah in a meager attempt at attributing the evil to "Arabness". But according to the logic that generalizing about race is wrong and contrary to the Quran, attributing the actions of some Arabs in Jahiliyyah to all Arabs is wrong. According to the correct application of the logic involved in the consensus of the scholars on the superiority of Arabs over non-Arabs, any evil aspect of Arab culture was carefully and systematically removed by the tutelage and example of the Prophet SAWS over the course of 23 years. So that what remained in the practice of the Prophet SAWS and his Companions RA was a resulting redaction of Arab culture that would serve as the best example for humanity until the Hour.

    Yes, many different cultures observe a type of clothing referred to as "khamees". Even Spanish-speaking people around the world call their shirts "camisa" based on the Arabic word. And many, many different types of clothing which covers the upper-body, no matter the language or word, is "permissible". Yet the "recommended" type of قميص or خميصة will always be the ones that the Prophet SAWS preferred. And they are undoubtedly forms known to or common to the Arabs.

    In fact, preferring specifically non-Arab types of clothing is prohibited in Islam.

    It's really sad that people feel the need to impose Western standards and concepts on Islam and Muslims. It's equally sad to see people who wish to be seen as good Muslims, opposing the consensus of Islamic scholars on issues of belief and doing so without a single scholarly rebuttal or opinion.

    Another way to look at this concept of "Arab superiority" in Islam, is to re-frame the matter differently. For those who agree that Arabic is the best of all languages, even if only because the Quran and Sunnah are in Arabic, then how do you think non-Muslim, non-Arabs view this opinion- regardless of your reason for it? They will most definitely view this opinion as racist and pro-Arab, not pro-Islam.

    Even things like growing a beard, wearing a Thawb or Imaamah, women wearing Hijab, not shaking hands with women, etc. are all seen by non-Arab, non-Muslims, and unfortunately even some who claim to be Muslim, as "Arab culture" and not from the "religion" of Islam.

    This 3rd-party perspective should inform the incorrect perception of those who have different reasons for following the recommendations and dictates of Islam. Their own outward form and appearance is a representation of "Arabness" to observers. So despite your disagreement with the belief of Arab superiority, your actions and sayings prove the opposite to the outside observer.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    You have already said that.

    Now you are just spamming the thread to get attention.
    On the side, may I ask you something regarding tirmidhi hadith as there is a hadith related to it on this topic?

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdell View Post
    Abu Sufyan clearly stated an Arab is "Superior" even if the taqwa is the same. Thats ahkira implications.
    Do u know the meaning of my saying better than me?

    Anyways.

    Lemme say it again.

    Arab race is better than any other race.

    Allah has chosen that race.

    It doesn't mean specific Arab is better than specific non-arab.

    It's all about the whole race.

    This thing must be believed and we don't have to do anything about it.

    Allah did what he wills and it's Allah's fadl and hikma.

    So its dunya stuff.

    You just have to love this race as Allah has chosen it and sent his last messenger from it.

    Very easy.

    If you understand anything else I just clarified my opinion
    Last edited by Abu-Sufyaan; 24-09-17 at 02:28 PM.
    إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Do u know the meaning of my saying better than me?

    Anyways.

    Lemme say it again.

    Arab race is better than any other race.

    Allah has chosen that race.

    It doesn't mean specific Arab is better than specific non-arab.

    It's all about the whole race.

    This thing must be believed and we don't have to do anything about it.

    Allah did what he wills and it's Allah's fadl and hikma.

    So its dunya stuff.

    You just have to love this race as Allah has chosen it and sent his last messenger from it.

    Very easy.

    If you understand anything else I just clarified my opinion
    huh

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    [QUOTE=AbuNajm;7473949]If we agree with the logic which states that Arabs are not superior to non-Arabs, then there are two possibilities according to this: 1) non-Arabs are superior to Arabs; or 2) all nations/tribes/races are equal to one another.

    According to opinion #1 based on Shu'ubiyyah, "it is perfectly good to say that Mexicans are better than Arabs or Europeans are better than Arabs."

    According to opinion #2 based on Shu'ubiyyah, it is racist to say any tribe/nation/race is better than another.

    What people in the West have been conditioned to think is that "stereotype=racism", when this necessitates that everyone alive today is "racist" to some extent.

    The definition of "stereotype" is: "a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing."

    An example given in the definition is: "the stereotype of the woman as the carer".

    A person who generalizes or stereotypes a woman is considered "misogynistic" by Western standards. A person who generalizes or stereotypes a race is considered "racist" by Western standards. However, as Muslims we do not follow the values and standards of the West in determining what is "normal" or "standard".

    Many scholars have discussed this matter in depth and with many proofs, both Ijtihadi and Tawqeefi. I don't think it's necessary that we relive the same old disagreements from those people on the forum who refuse to acknowledge the authority of Islamic scholarship in every single discussion.

    However, for those people on the forum who do accept the authority of Islamic scholarship, especially their consensus, then there has to be an attempt to understand the point of view of the scholars. Too often the discussion devolve into individuals asserting and defending their own personal perspectives or opinions.

    I don't think you're doing that @Linkdeutscher, so that is why I'm responding to you.

    Just look at the paradox that is the "superiority" of the Arab over the non-Arab in Islamic beliefs. On one hand, the "superiority" translates into more responsibility and less advantages, i.e. leadership and no Zakaah. The person whose pronunciation of Arabic is best cannot pray behind the one who makes major errors in recitation. And there are a whole host of Fiqh rulings that differ based on a perceived proficiency or deficiency in the "Arabness' of those involved.

    Some people in the discussion have expressed the idea that Allah's choosing the Arabs from which to send Muhammad SAWS was simply "chance" or "arbitrary" so that the ways in which we imitate the Prophet SAWS are in imitation of his person specifically and not "Arabs". This is simply a way of reasoning that the same conclusion as the opposing argument arrived by a different route.

    The Prophet SAWS was an Arab and thus his sayings, actions, behaviors, characteristics, etiquette, norms, preferences, dress, etc. were all codified as either "obligatory" or "recommended". At the moment of codification, the Prophet's "Arabness" became "obligatory" or "recommended" even for the non-Arab.

    As for the person of the Prophet SAWS, then his "Arabness" cannot be divorced from him. No other race can boast of having originated the last and final Prophet, whose personal preferences and habits were codified as "obligatory" or "recommended", thus preserving the best aspects of their own culture for all time and places.

    Some people in this thread have tried to point out some evils that were prevalent among the Arabs in Jahiliyyah in a meager attempt at attributing the evil to "Arabness". But according to the logic that generalizing about race is wrong and contrary to the Quran, attributing the actions of some Arabs in Jahiliyyah to all Arabs is wrong. According to the correct application of the logic involved in the consensus of the scholars on the superiority of Arabs over non-Arabs, any evil aspect of Arab culture was carefully and systematically removed by the tutelage and example of the Prophet SAWS over the course of 23 years. So that what remained in the practice of the Prophet SAWS and his Companions RA was a resulting redaction of Arab culture that would serve as the best example for humanity until the Hour.

    Yes, many different cultures observe a type of clothing referred to as "khamees". Even Spanish-speaking people around the world call their shirts "camisa" based on the Arabic word. And many, many different types of clothing which covers the upper-body, no matter the language or word, is "permissible". Yet the "recommended" type of قميص or خميصة will always be the ones that the Prophet SAWS preferred. And they are undoubtedly forms known to or common to the Arabs.

    In fact, preferring specifically non-Arab types of clothing is prohibited in Islam.

    It's really sad that people feel the need to impose Western standards and concepts on Islam and Muslims. It's equally sad to see people who wish to be seen as good Muslims, opposing the consensus of Islamic scholars on issues of belief and doing so without a single scholarly rebuttal or opinion.

    Another way to look at this concept of "Arab superiority" in Islam, is to re-frame the matter differently. For those who agree that Arabic is the best of all languages, even if only because the Quran and Sunnah are in Arabic, then how do you think non-Muslim, non-Arabs view this opinion- regardless of your reason for it? They will most definitely view this opinion as racist and pro-Arab, not pro-Islam.

    Even things like growing a beard, wearing a Thawb or Imaamah, women wearing Hijab, not shaking hands with women, etc. are all seen by non-Arab, non-Muslims, and unfortunately even some who claim to be Muslim, as "Arab culture" and not from the "religion" of Islam.

    This 3rd-party perspective should inform the incorrect perception of those who have different reasons for following the recommendations and dictates of Islam. Their own outward form and appearance is a representation of "Arabness" to observers. So despite your disagreement with the belief of Arab superiority, your actions and sayings prove the opposite to the outside observer.[/QUOTE

    hm
    Last edited by Learnerofknowledge; 24-09-17 at 04:01 PM.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    They might be.

    The point I was trying to address is that if you avoid one scholar based on something you should be consistent and avoid the others who said the same thing.

    I also wanted to point out that Ibn Taymiyyah is not alone on this issue as he was falsely accused.
    If i recall the hadith tirmidhi said is hasan gharib, though I have read the following:


    يحتج الترمذي بغالب الأحاديث التي يطلق عليها (الحسن) إلا أن بعضها لا يكون حجة عنده , وبناء عليه فأرى أن الذهبي- رحمه الله – لم يحالفه الصواب حين قال: عند المحاققة فغالب تحسينات الترمذي ضعاف.

    إن ما يقول فيه الترمذي (حسن غريب) ليس أقوى مما يقول فيه (حسن) بل في بعض ما يقول فيه (حسن) ما هو أقوى من كثير مما يقول فيه (حسن غريب) كما أن في بعض ذلك ما هو أقوى من بعض ما يقول فيه (حسن) ومن غير شك يوجد في كلا الحكمين الصحيح والحسن لذاته والضعيف المنجبر فلا فرق في القوة الاحتجاجية بين (الحسن) و (حسن غريب).

    ماتوجد له متابعات أوشواهد ولو كانت الشواهد من حيث عموم المعنى وغير متقاربة في الألفاظ فهذه داخلة في تعريف الحسن عند الترمذي.
    مالا توجد له متابعات أو شواهد ولكن السند من حيث القوة لا يحتاج إلى عاضد فهذه الحالة لا تدخل في تعريفه للحسن لأنها قوية لذاتها مستغنية عن العاضد.

    فإطلاق القول بأن غالب تحسينات الترمذي ضعيفة قول غير صحيح فالأصل عنده أن ما يحسنه صالح للاحتجاج به، وكذلك القول بأن كلما حسنه الترمذي فهو حجة قول غير دقيق، ولا يصلح الاعتماد المطلق على قول الترمذي: (حسن) أو (حسن غريب) في الاحتجاج بالأحاديث والعمل بها وذلك لعدم الاتفاق على حجية ما يحسنه بين علماء الحديث.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Learnerofknowledge View Post
    huh
    yes yes, all you can do is huhing.

    sheikh Al-Albany said:

    ذلك لا يُنافِي أنْ يكون جنس العرب أفضل من جنس سائر الأُمَم ، بل هذا الذي أُؤمن به وأعتقده وأَدِينُ اللهَ به وإنْ كنتُ أَلبانِيًّا فإني مسلم ولله الحمد , ذلك لأن ما ذكرتُه مِنْ أفضلية جنس العرب هو الذي عليه أهل السنة والجماعة ، ويدل عليها مجموعة من الأحاديث منها قوله صلى الله عليه وسلم : [ إنّ اللهَ اصْطَفَى مِنْ ولد إبراهيم إسماعيلَ، واصطفى من ولد إسماعيل بني كنانة، واصطفى من بني كنانة قريشاً، واصطفى من قريش بني هاشم، واصطفاني من بني هاشم ] رواه أحمد والترمذي وصحّحه وأصله في مسلم وكذا البخاري .
    ولكن هذا ينبغي ألّا يَحْمِل العربي على الافتخار بجنسه ؛ لأنه مِنَ أمور الجاهلية التي أبطلها نبيّنا محمد العربي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، كما ينبغي أن لا نجهل السبب الذي به اسْتَحَقَّ العرب الأفضلية ، وهو ما اختصوا به في عقولهم و ألسنتهم وأخلاقهم و أعمالهم ، الأمر الذي أهّلَهُم لأنْ يكونوا حَمَلَة الدعوة الإسلامية إلى الأمم الأخرى ، فإنّه إذا عرف العربي هذا وحافظ عليه أَمْكَنَه أن يكون مثل سَلَفِه عُضواً صالحاً في حمل الدعوة الإسلامية ، أما إذا هو تَجَرّد من ذلك فليس له مِِنَ الفضل شيء ، بل الأعجمي الذي تخلّق بالأخلاق الإسلامية هو خيرٌ منه دون شك ولا ريب " ا.هـ


    [السلسلة الضعيفة 196/1 باختصار]

    sheikh ibn uthaymeen said:

    النسب لا ينفع صاحبه إذا أخَّرَه عن صالح الأعمال ؛ لقوله صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم : ( مَنْ بَطَّأ به عمله لم يُسرِع به نَسَبُه ) .
    فإنْ لم يبطئ به العمل وسارع إلى الخير وسبق إليه ، فهل يُسرِع به النسب ؟
    فالجواب : لا شك أن النسب له تأثير وله ميزة ، ولهذا نقول : جنس العرب خيرٌ من غيرهم من الأجناس ، وبنو هاشم أفضل من غيرهم مِنْ قريش كما جاء في الحديث لذلك تجد طبائع العرب غير طبائع غيرهم ، فهم خيرٌ في الفهم ، وخيرٌ في الجلادة ، وخيرٌ في الشجاعة ، وخيرٌ في العلم ، لكن إذا أبطأ بهم العمل صاروا شَرًّا من غيرهم ؛ انظر إلى أبي لهب عم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم..." ا.هـ


    [شرح الأربعين ص435 - 436 باختصار]
    إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    I've heard a theory that the Qur'an was revealed to an Arab community because they were the most jahil. That makes more sense to me than those who claim it's because arabs are superior or it makes them so. As for the Prophet's sermon, are people denying that a part of it apparently was "There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab"?
    "East, west, south, or north makes little difference. No matter what your destination, just be sure to make every journey a journey within. If you travel within, you’ll travel the whole wide world and beyond." - Rule 9. - The Forty Rules of Love.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    The word 'chosen' is not the same as 'superior', nor is 'lineage' to 'race', or of the 'responsibility' that makes them 'better than' other nations in the sight of Allah (), of which non-Arabs are careless to compete in this virtue, nor is it a threat to their tranquility for them to be concerned.

    The difference occurs only when Allah () wills it.

    Only Allah () knows best.


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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    A few thoughts on "superior" Arabic culture.

    http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...waId&Id=195983

    1- One type was similar to that of the present day, i.e. a man asks the hand of a woman from her guardian or her father, and he gives Mahr (dowry) to her and then he marries her.

    2- The second type was that a man would say to his wife after she had become clean from her period. "Send for so-and-so and have sexual intercourse with him." Her husband would then keep away from her and would never have sexual intercourse with her till she got pregnant from the other man with whom she had sexual intercourse. When her pregnancy became evident, he husband would have sexual intercourse with her if he wished. Her husband did so (i.e. let his wife have sexual intercourse with some other man) so that he might have a child of noble breed. Such marriage was called as Al-Istibdaa'.

    3- Another type of marriage was that a group of less than ten men would assemble and enter upon a woman, and all of them would have sexual relation with her. If she became pregnant and delivered a child and some days had passed after delivery, she would send for all of them and none of them would refuse to come, and when they all gathered before her, she would say to them, "You (all) know what you have done, and now I have given birth to a child. So, it is your child O so-and-so!" naming whoever she liked, and her child would be attributed to him and he could not deny him.

    4- The fourth type of marriage was that many people would enter upon a woman and she would never refuse anyone who came to her. Those were the prostitutes who used to fix banners at their doors as a sign [that they are prostitutes], and he who would wish, could have sexual intercourse with them. If anyone of them got pregnant and delivered a child, then all those men would be gathered for her and they would call the Qaa'if (some person skilled in recognizing the likeness of a child to his father) to them and would let the child be attributed to the man (whom they recognized as his father) and she would let him adhere to him and be called his son. The man would not refuse all that.

    http://historycollection.co/sex-ancient-times/7/

    Wife lending is a practice that is associated with pre-Islamic Arabs and it had a very important role to play in society. It was something that actually gave lower class families a way to elevate their rank and perhaps improve their situation and the lives of themselves and their children. While it may sound a bit unsavory and it involved viewing the wife as a more of a commodity than a person, there were rules that the husband had to follow as well.

    If a lower-class family wanted to increase their status they could do so by lending the wife to another man. They would choose a man that had the attributes and status that they wanted for their children and then would arrange for the wife to live with him. The wife would live with the chosen man until she became pregnant.

    Once the woman became pregnant she would return to her husband and the child she carried would be considered that of the husband and not the man who had impregnated her. However, there was a caveat. Society would only consider the child to be that of the husband if he had refrained from having sex for the entire time that his wife was away.

    Women were viewed as little more than property in pre-Islamic Arabia and therefore had little say in whether or not she was lent to someone else as those were decisions left for men. It was not until 586 that women were even considered to be human.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    If we agree with the logic which states that Arabs are not superior to non-Arabs, then there are two possibilities according to this: 1) non-Arabs are superior to Arabs; or 2) all nations/tribes/races are equal to one another.

    According to opinion #1 based on Shu'ubiyyah, "it is perfectly good to say that Mexicans are better than Arabs or Europeans are better than Arabs."

    According to opinion #2 based on Shu'ubiyyah, it is racist to say any tribe/nation/race is better than another.

    What people in the West have been conditioned to think is that "stereotype=racism", when this necessitates that everyone alive today is "racist" to some extent.

    The definition of "stereotype" is: "a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing."

    An example given in the definition is: "the stereotype of the woman as the carer".

    A person who generalizes or stereotypes a woman is considered "misogynistic" by Western standards. A person who generalizes or stereotypes a race is considered "racist" by Western standards. However, as Muslims we do not follow the values and standards of the West in determining what is "normal" or "standard".

    Many scholars have discussed this matter in depth and with many proofs, both Ijtihadi and Tawqeefi. I don't think it's necessary that we relive the same old disagreements from those people on the forum who refuse to acknowledge the authority of Islamic scholarship in every single discussion.

    However, for those people on the forum who do accept the authority of Islamic scholarship, especially their consensus, then there has to be an attempt to understand the point of view of the scholars. Too often the discussion devolve into individuals asserting and defending their own personal perspectives or opinions.

    I don't think you're doing that @Linkdeutscher, so that is why I'm responding to you.

    Just look at the paradox that is the "superiority" of the Arab over the non-Arab in Islamic beliefs. On one hand, the "superiority" translates into more responsibility and less advantages, i.e. leadership and no Zakaah. The person whose pronunciation of Arabic is best cannot pray behind the one who makes major errors in recitation. And there are a whole host of Fiqh rulings that differ based on a perceived proficiency or deficiency in the "Arabness' of those involved.

    Some people in the discussion have expressed the idea that Allah's choosing the Arabs from which to send Muhammad SAWS was simply "chance" or "arbitrary" so that the ways in which we imitate the Prophet SAWS are in imitation of his person specifically and not "Arabs". This is simply a way of reasoning that the same conclusion as the opposing argument arrived by a different route.

    The Prophet SAWS was an Arab and thus his sayings, actions, behaviors, characteristics, etiquette, norms, preferences, dress, etc. were all codified as either "obligatory" or "recommended". At the moment of codification, the Prophet's "Arabness" became "obligatory" or "recommended" even for the non-Arab.

    As for the person of the Prophet SAWS, then his "Arabness" cannot be divorced from him. No other race can boast of having originated the last and final Prophet, whose personal preferences and habits were codified as "obligatory" or "recommended", thus preserving the best aspects of their own culture for all time and places.

    Some people in this thread have tried to point out some evils that were prevalent among the Arabs in Jahiliyyah in a meager attempt at attributing the evil to "Arabness". But according to the logic that generalizing about race is wrong and contrary to the Quran, attributing the actions of some Arabs in Jahiliyyah to all Arabs is wrong. According to the correct application of the logic involved in the consensus of the scholars on the superiority of Arabs over non-Arabs, any evil aspect of Arab culture was carefully and systematically removed by the tutelage and example of the Prophet SAWS over the course of 23 years. So that what remained in the practice of the Prophet SAWS and his Companions RA was a resulting redaction of Arab culture that would serve as the best example for humanity until the Hour.

    Yes, many different cultures observe a type of clothing referred to as "khamees". Even Spanish-speaking people around the world call their shirts "camisa" based on the Arabic word. And many, many different types of clothing which covers the upper-body, no matter the language or word, is "permissible". Yet the "recommended" type of قميص or خميصة will always be the ones that the Prophet SAWS preferred. And they are undoubtedly forms known to or common to the Arabs.

    In fact, preferring specifically non-Arab types of clothing is prohibited in Islam.

    It's really sad that people feel the need to impose Western standards and concepts on Islam and Muslims. It's equally sad to see people who wish to be seen as good Muslims, opposing the consensus of Islamic scholars on issues of belief and doing so without a single scholarly rebuttal or opinion.

    Another way to look at this concept of "Arab superiority" in Islam, is to re-frame the matter differently. For those who agree that Arabic is the best of all languages, even if only because the Quran and Sunnah are in Arabic, then how do you think non-Muslim, non-Arabs view this opinion- regardless of your reason for it? They will most definitely view this opinion as racist and pro-Arab, not pro-Islam.

    Even things like growing a beard, wearing a Thawb or Imaamah, women wearing Hijab, not shaking hands with women, etc. are all seen by non-Arab, non-Muslims, and unfortunately even some who claim to be Muslim, as "Arab culture" and not from the "religion" of Islam.

    This 3rd-party perspective should inform the incorrect perception of those who have different reasons for following the recommendations and dictates of Islam. Their own outward form and appearance is a representation of "Arabness" to observers. So despite your disagreement with the belief of Arab superiority, your actions and sayings prove the opposite to the outside observer.
    This.

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    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    182686: Is the Arab Muslim better than the non-Arab Muslim?

    A while ago I read a hadith from the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): It was narrated from ‘Utbah ibn ‘Abd that he said: A man said: O Messenger of Allah, curse the people of Yemen for they are tough fighters and great in number, and their fortresses are well fortified. He said: “No.” Then the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) cursed the non-Arabs, and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “If they come to you, with their women and carrying their children on their shoulders (then show kindness to them), for they are of me and I am of them.” Narrated by Ahmad, and also by at-Tabaraani, except that he said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) cursed the non-Arabs, the Persians and Romans (Byzantines), and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “If the people of Yemen pass by you, with their women and carrying their children on their shoulders (then show kindness to them), for they are of me and I am of them.” The isnaads of both reports are hasan, and Baqiyyah clearly stated that each narrator heard it from another.*
    My question is:*
    Why did the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) curse the non-Arabs, the Persians and Byzantines? Didn’t many of them become Muslim after the conquest of Syria and Iraq, and even as far as China? Is the hadith proven to be sound and of a high level of authenticity? Why did he not say, O Allah, curse the disbelievers, and leave it at that? Is the Arab Muslim considered to be better than the non-Arab Muslim? I am from Syria and am not fully Arab; does this mean that my Islam is less than the Islam of those who are fully Arab among you? Were there any of the Sahaabah who were not Arabs?

    Published Date: 2017-09-25

    Praise be to Allah

    Firstly:

    We have explained previously that Islam does not pay attention to differences in colour, race or lineage. All people are descended from Adam, and Adam was created from dust. Rather according to Islam, superiority of some people over others is measured by faith and taqwa (piety, mindfulness of Allah), doing what Allah has enjoined and refraining from what Allah has forbidden.

    At-Tirmidhi (3270) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) addressed the people on the day of the conquest of Makkah and said: “O people, verily Allah has taken away from you the arrogance of Jaahiliyyah and its pride in forefathers. People are of two types: righteous and pious, who are dear to Allah, and doomed evildoers, who are insignificant before Allah. People are the descendants of Adam, and Allah created Adam from dust. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):*‘O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted’ [al-Hujuraat 49:13].”

    Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in*Saheeh at-Tirmidhi.

    Ahmad (22978) narrated from Abu Nadrah: Someone who heard the khutbah of the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) on the second of the days of at-Tashreeq told me that he said: “O people, verily your Lord is One and your father is one. Verily there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab or of a non-Arab over an Arab, or of a red man over a black man, or of a black man over a red man, except in terms of taqwa. Have I conveyed the message?” They said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) has conveyed the message.

    Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in*as-Saheehah*(6/199).

    Al-Bukhaari (4898) and Muslim (2546) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: We were sitting with the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and Soorat al-Jumu‘ah was revealed to him:*“And [He has sent the Prophet to] others of them who have not yet joined them” [al-Jumu‘ah 62:3]. I said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allah? He did not answer him until he had asked three times. Among us was Salmaan al-Faarisi and the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) put his hand on Salmaan and said: “If faith were at the Pleiades, some men from among these people [the Persians] would get it.”

    Al-Bukhaari (5990) and Muslim (215) narrated that ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say, out loud and not secretly: “The family of Abu Fulaan (the Father of So and so) are not my friends. My friends are Allah and the righteous believers.”

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was speaking of a clan that was closely related to him, and pointed out that mere lineage did not make them his friends; rather his friends were Allah and the righteous believers of all backgrounds.

    End quote from*Iqtida’ as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem*(144).

    See also the answers to questions no.*12391*and3793.

    Secondly:

    Imam Ahmad (17195) narrated: Haywah ibn Shurayh told us: Baqiyyah told us, Baheer ibn Sa‘d told me, from Khaalid ibn Ma‘daan, from ‘Utbah ibn ‘Abd that he said: A man said: O Messenger of Allah, curse the people of Yemen for they are tough fighters and great in number, and their fortresses are well fortified. He said: “No.” Then the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) cursed the non-Arabs, and the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “If they come to you, with their women and carrying their children on their shoulders (then show kindness to them), for they are of me and I am of them.”

    The commentators on*Musnad al-Imam Ahmad*(ar-Risaalah edn., 29/194) said:

    Its isnad is da‘eef (weak). Baqiyyah – who is the son of al-Waleed – is mudallis [i.e., he engaged in tadlees, which is when a narrator narrates a hadith that he did not hear directly from his shaykh, without mentioning the name of the third party from whom he did hear it, using wording that may or may not give the impression that he heard it directly], and narrated by saying ‘an (“from”, without clearly stating that he heard the hadith himself from another narrator). His hadith cannot be accepted unless it is clearly stated that each stage of the isnad that one narrator heard it directly from another.

    It was also narrated by Ibn Abi ‘Aasim in*al-Aahaad wa’l-Mathaani*(2280); at-Tabaraani in*al-Kabeer*(17/304) and in*ash-Shaamiyyeen*(1139), via ‘Abd al-Wahhaab ibn Najdah al-Hooti; and by Ibn Abi ‘Aasim (2280) from Hishaam ibn ‘Ammaar, both of whom narrated it from Baqiyyah ibn al-Waleed with this isnaad. In*ash-Shaamiyyeen*it mentions Ismaa‘eel ibn ‘Ayyaash instead of Baqiyyah, and we think it most likely that this is an error on the part of the copyist. End quote.

    Even if we assume that the hadith is saheeh (sound), it is to be understood as referring to those among them who are deserving of being cursed, namely the disbelievers, evildoers and their ilk. These people were only singled out for mention because in most cases they were disbelievers and were misguided, especially at that time.

    Thirdly:

    In the answer to question no.*115934, we noted that Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah are unanimously agreed that the Arabs are superior to others in terms of descent and lineage, and that regarding the Arabs as superior is in general terms, and does not apply at the individual level. So a non-Arab who is pious and righteous is better than an Arab who falls short in his duties to Allah, may He be exalted.

    Therefore an Arab Muslim cannot be superior to a non-Arab Muslim just because he is an Arab. Rather superiority is based on taqwa (piety, mindfulness of Allah). So whoever is more mindful of Allah and obedient to Him is better than his counterpart, regardless of whether he is an Arab or a non-Arab.

    So the fact that you are not fully Arab does not mean that you are less than one who is fully Arab in terms of virtue and status simply because of that. As is clear from what we have mentioned above, the real standard is faith and righteous deeds.

    Fourthly:

    There were some of the Sahaabah who were not Arabs, such as Salmaan and Miqsam, who were Persians, Bilaal al-Habashi (who was Ethiopian) , Zunayrah ar-Roomiyyah (who was Byzantine), Barakah al-Habashiyyah (who was Ethiopian) and others such as Suhaym the freed slave of Banu’l-Has-haas, Ya‘eesh the slave of Banu’l-Mugheerah, Khaalid ibn al-Hawaari, and Tamaam al-Habashi.

    Al-Haakim (8194) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “I saw (in a dream) many black sheep who were joined by many white sheep.” They said: How did you interpret it, O Messenger of Allah? He said: The non-Arabs will join you in your religion and your lineage.” They said: The non-Arabs, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “If faith were at the Pleiades, some men from among the non-Arabs would get it.”

    Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in*as-Saheehah*(1018).

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    The confirmation of that is seen in the many Persians, both free men and freed slaves, among the Taabi‘een and those who came after them, such as al-Hasan, Ibn Sireen, ‘Ikrimah the freed slave of Ibn ‘Abbaas, and others, and those who came after that of people who were prominent in faith, religious commitment and knowledge, until these prominent figures became better than most of the Arabs.

    Similarly, among types of non-Arabs, such as the Ethiopians, Byzantines, Turks and others, there are people who excelled in faith and religious commitment, too many to be counted, which is something well known to the scholars, because true virtue is in following that with which Allah sent Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) of faith and knowledge, both inwardly and outwardly. So the more strongly a person adheres to it, the better he is, and virtue is only in terms of the praiseworthy qualities mentioned in the Qur’an and Sunnah, such as Islam, faith, righteousness, taqwa, knowledge, righteous deeds, ihsaan and so on.* There is no virtue in a person simply being an Arab or non-Arab, or being black or white, or being a city dweller or desert dweller.

    End quote from*Iqtidaa’ as-Siraat al-Mustaqeem*(p. 145)

    And Allah knows best.

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