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  1. #1
    الله مولانا ولا مولى لهم Abu Jaffar's Avatar
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    As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    All praise is due to Allah alone, and prayers and peace of Allah be on his final Messenger Mohammad and upon all his family, companions and his righteous followers.

    There are big subjects been discussed around the forum lately, which even scholars didn't come to an agreement on.
    These matters have been discussed by many members whom most of them don't even know how to make a full sentence in Arabic. They only cut and paste from sources without even checking or understanding the issue of matter, how its derived and the event that led to it.

    Our religion is a big responsibility, it can't be taken lightly, putting your opinion according too what you understood FROM AN ENGLISH TEXT NOT EVEN ARABIC does not count as a full dalil.

    Arabic language is a rich one, that one word would need three English words in average to explain it. Thus if you have no grasp of the Arabic language then how could you know the right phrase or word that could change the whole meaning of a sentence, even alter a ruling.
    So please don't try to make your own opinion while you don't even know Arabic.

    جزاكم الله خيرا
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


  2. #2
    Account Disabled Medievalist's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement





    May ALLAH Ta'ala grant us humility in religion and guide us in it. ameen
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

  3. #3
    Private Investigator samin62's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    amazing post brother.

    May Allah Guide Us All
    "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

    Lost in Islamic History

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Jenicca's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    May ALLAH Ta'ala grant us humility in religion and guide us in it. ameen
    Ameen

    Akhi Abu Jaffar. Its not harsh at all, it was much needed.
    وَالْعَصْرِ

    إِنَّ الْإِنسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ

    إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ

    "If Allah (swt) only sent this Surah to us, for the guidance of Mankind, this will be enough for us” - Imam Shaafi'ee r.a.

    "Yeh dunya daar e faani hain, Tum apna dil mat lagaon, Ganimat samaj zinadagee ki bahar, aana na hoga, yahaa baar baar......"

    Khanqah Habibiyah

  5. #5
    Veteran user Fuaadh's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    All praise is due to Allah alone, and prayers and peace of Allah be on his final Messenger Mohammad and upon all his family, companions and his righteous followers.

    There are big subjects been discussed around the forum lately, which even scholars didn't come to an agreement on.
    These matters have been discussed by many members whom most of them don't even know how to make a full sentence in Arabic. They only cut and paste from sources without even checking or understanding the issue of matter, how its derived and the event that led to it.

    Our religion is a big responsibility, it can't be taken lightly, putting your opinion according too what you understood FROM AN ENGLISH TEXT NOT EVEN ARABIC does not count as a full dalil.

    Arabic language is a rich one, that one word would need three English words in average to explain it. Thus if you have no grasp of the Arabic language then how could you know the right phrase or word that could change the whole meaning of a sentence, even alter a ruling.
    So please don't try to make your own opinion while you don't even know Arabic.

    جزاكم الله خيرا
    True say brother, I remember the story of an Imam (can't recall his name I think it was Imam Hanbali) people used to come from everywhere to get his views but he said Allah knows best for most of the questions they asked unless he was 200% sure, but we here are making fatwas in seconds subhanAllah..

  6. #6
    Odan KeeKee's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement



    EXCELLENT post, a reminder we must all always look to.
    The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
    (Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Yusuf)
    In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

  7. #7
    Left eternal journey's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuaadh View Post
    True say brother, I remember the story of an Imam (can't recall his name I think it was Imam Hanbali) people used to come from everywhere to get his views but he said Allah knows best for most of the questions they asked unless he was 200% sure, but we here are making fatwas in seconds subhanAllah..
    I think in the story you're thinking of it's imam Malik akhi.

    JazakAllahu khayran brother Abu Jaffar, I haven't really looked at the threads in question but it's a valuable reminder which is always applicable.
    ربنا واجعلنا مسلمين لك ومن ذريتنا أمة مسلمة لك وأرنا مناسكنا وتب علينا إنك أنت التواب الرحيم

    Our Lord, make us Muslims submitted to You, and our descendants a Muslim community submitted to You. Show us our rites of worship and turn towards us. You are the Ever-Returning, the Most Merciful. [2: 128]

    http://livingthemuslimlife.wordpress.com/

  8. #8
    الله مولانا ولا مولى لهم Abu Jaffar's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuaadh View Post
    True say brother, I remember the story of an Imam (can't recall his name I think it was Imam Hanbali) people used to come from everywhere to get his views but he said Allah knows best for most of the questions they asked unless he was 200% sure, but we here are making fatwas in seconds subhanAllah..
    It was Imam Malik, a man came from Andalus and asked him on 48 matters he only answered a few of them. The man told him I came all the way form Andalus (imagine that an eight month travel) with these questions and you say you don't know, what will I tell the enquirers? he said: Tell them that Imam Malik says he doesn't know the answer.
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


  9. #9
    ایک بار پکار کے تو دیکھو .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    I don't know which threads you're referring to, but aren't we suppose to be helping each other out with our deen?
    I agree that understanding the rulings/fatwas are important, but most of us can't speak Arabic so the only choice we have is to depend on English translations and interpretations. How else would we go about doing it then?

  10. #10
    Veteran user Fuaadh's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    It was Imam Malik, a man came from Andalus and asked him on 48 matters he only answered a few of them. The man told him I came all the way form Andalus (imagine that an eight month travel) with these questions and you say you don't know, what will I tell the enquirers? he said: Tell them that Imam Malik says he doesn't know the answer.
    Oh yes sorry.. JaazakAllah for giving the full story bro!

  11. #11
    Tullaib
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    I don't know which threads you're referring to, but aren't we suppose to be helping each other out with our deen?
    I agree that understanding the rulings/fatwas are important, but most of us can't speak Arabic so the only choice we have is to depend on English translations and interpretations. How else would we go about doing it then?
    Really the question on rulings shouldn't be posting on here.. people should go directly to a scholar to ask these questions. Just like we would go to a doctor when we are ill.. we go to the islamic scholar if we fail to understand something of deen

  12. #12
    ایک بار پکار کے تو دیکھو .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by zaidfp View Post
    Really the question on rulings shouldn't be posting on here.. people should go directly to a scholar to ask these questions. Just like we would go to a doctor when we are ill.. we go to the islamic scholar if we fail to understand something of deen
    Good point, but then this place would become a chit-chat forum. (Well, it already is 50%)

  13. #13
    Tullaib
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    Good point, but then this place would become a chit-chat forum. (Well, it already is 50%)
    advice could be asked here.. articles which some people are unaware of could be put up.. little little stuff like that.. people could share experiences

  14. #14
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    سلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
    All praise is due to Allah alone, and prayers and peace of Allah be on his final Messenger Mohammad and upon all his family, companions and his righteous followers and i wish you all the best

  15. #15
    We hear and we obey
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    thanks for the advice.

    But as muslims in the west we have to rely on what we get in the english language. And mind you most of the english translated are from the arabic version which brothers who know the arabic language will kindly translate.
    in terms of Our religion is a big responsibility, your right there are certain issues which are dangerous and has to be left with the scholers (i.e takfir, qisas). but mind you we have to know about issue's like kufr and iman, how else would we be able to see the difference between a muslim and a non muslim.
    Last edited by AbuOmar_Alfarsi; 04-11-10 at 02:00 PM.

  16. #16
    There and back again... Safiyyah89's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    well said akhi

    jazakallahu kair for the reminder
    ‎"when she is a daughter, she opens a door of jannah for her father. when she is a wife, she completes half of the deen of her husband. when she is a mother, Jannah lies under her feet. If everyone knew the status of a muslim women in islam, even men would want to be women." Sheikh Akram Nadawi

  17. #17
    cute lethal wahabi
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    ya well i agree. I cant wait till the day where everybody is a scholar so that we can spot wrong from right.

  18. #18
    Alisha Mohammed Islam Attiyah Abdul Hamid's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Ameen...
    I think people are entitled to their own opinion...

    BUT when they start copy and pasteing quran or hadith etcc iut of contrast and make up their own opiniond from it it becomes wrong lOl


    May Allah Allow Us All To Gain In Knowledge And May He Allow Us To Teach It To Others. Insha'Allah

    Ameen
    ♥ ♥ Be mindful of Allaah, and Allaah will protect you. Be mindful of Allaah and you will find Him in front of you. If you ask, ask of Allaah; if you seek help. Seek help of Allaah. Know that if the nation were to gather together to benefit you with anything, it would benefit you only with something that Allaah had already prescribed for you, and that if they gather together to harm you with anything, they would harm you only with something Allaah had already prescribed for you. The pens have been lifted and the pages have dried. ♥ ♥



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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Good Post.

  20. #20
    Odan dhak1yya's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    I don't know which threads you're referring to, but aren't we suppose to be helping each other out with our deen?
    I agree that understanding the rulings/fatwas are important, but most of us can't speak Arabic so the only choice we have is to depend on English translations and interpretations. How else would we go about doing it then?
    I think he means for users to be more tolerant of other opinions on matters where the scholars don't agree. Not that you have to be fluent in Arabic to be able to study Islam. Just remember that the clear cut issues the scholars are all in agreement about, and the not so clear cut issues, yes we have to review what's available for us to review, i.e. English translations and what scholars have written on the issues, and make a decision for ourselves based on what information we have to hand, but at the same time not to dismiss alternative views that come from Qur'an and Sunnah following scholars, and not to get involved in arguments or give DIY fatwas.





  21. #21
    Senile Member seven's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    hence why we have taqleed of madhabs
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  22. #22
    Melbourne truepath's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    reality is everyone is doing taqleed. there not one person among laymen who is not doing it and even among scholars, unless the scholar is a mujtahid himself.

    Among laymen some are doing taqleed of one of the 4 madhabs, others even tho they are not doing taqleed of one of the 4 madhabs, they are doing taqleed of other scholars of the contemporary world.
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

  23. #23
    الله مولانا ولا مولى لهم Abu Jaffar's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    I could debate Taqleed non-ending but the thread is not dedicated for that.
    جزاكم الله خيرا
    Last edited by Abu Jaffar; 21-06-11 at 09:52 PM.
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


  24. #24
    Kaffir SILURES's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    so are all the muslims who cant speak/read arabic missing something in their islam then?

    in the quran it says:

    ”We have made it (the Quran) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed”44:58
    does that mean the arabic language for muhammed and his companions or is it a message to all muslims in any age no matter what they speak?

    There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.



  25. #25
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    yes this right that we needs to be responsible. Islam is the perfect religion. But it might be the fact and our weakness that we don’t have the true knowledge about Islam. We are so called Muslims because most of us born in Muslim families. We have got lot of traitors among us. We have got lot of bad and evil practices. But if any Muslim does some bad acts or involved in evil practices it doesn’t means that Islam teaches this.
    Islam is the only perfect religion and it will be…

  26. #26
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Good post if you have a question ask but if you see that people dont know no point in debating without knowledge go to a scholar and post his answer on the thread you asked it on if you dont understand or someone else dosent understand the answer ask again these scholars and sheikhs do what they do because they want to help so we shouldnt be shy in asking obviously you dont nag a sheikh when he is busy you wait till he is available and when he is available then ask.

    ill take a quote from a good friend : ignorance is not the abscence of knowledge but the illusion of knowledge if you dont know then either hold your tounge , get knowledge or admit that you dont know


    And allah knows best

  27. #27
    Its fine, take a 38mm noobz's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by truepath View Post
    reality is everyone is doing taqleed. there not one person among laymen who is not doing it and even among scholars, unless the scholar is a mujtahid himself.

    Among laymen some are doing taqleed of one of the 4 madhabs, others even tho they are not doing taqleed of one of the 4 madhabs, they are doing taqleed of other scholars of the contemporary world.
    well if u dont do taqleed then they say u doing fatwa shopping. So i have become a fatwa shopper now that means.




  28. #28
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    very good post i agree muftis should have the right to fatwas etc but opinions r quite worthless is islam as they do not count highly agreed...

  29. #29
    Abu-Tawheed Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by SILURES View Post
    so are all the muslims who cant speak/read arabic missing something in their islam then?

    in the quran it says:



    does that mean the arabic language for muhammed and his companions or is it a message to all muslims in any age no matter what they speak?
    Yes to the First Question,

    and to the second question, addressed to the Arabs first and then to rest of Humanity ...

    regards
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

    – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

  30. #30
    Kaffir SILURES's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by RazielTemp View Post
    Yes to the First Question,

    and to the second question, addressed to the Arabs first and then to rest of Humanity ...

    regards
    thanks

    There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.



  31. #31
    جبريل -Jibril-'s Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Excellent post.
    There is rest only in the aakhira.
    Man will rest in the aakhira according to how hard he strives in dunya.

    - Khaalid Ibn Al Waleed (ra) -

    If you find yourself in a time where speech is regarded as knowledge,
    and knowledge is regarded as deeds,
    then you are in the worst of times, with the worst of people.

    - Abu Hazim Al Ashja'i (ra) -

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    That's right, a nude dog.
    The Deepweb is disgusting.
    - Unknown -


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  32. #32
    Kamaa Tadeenu Tudaan Abu Mus'ab's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Where has Abu Jaffar disappeared to? Has Daruz Zawaaj called him away already?



    "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


    Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.



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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    i came on this site not to debate like a scholer but to talk about issues affecting muslim people, sure enough, talking to muslims equates to having quotes slapped in your face out of context and completely lacking human emotion, silly me ey thinking I could find an online muslim support network
    All beauty is lost
    In God do we entrust,
    Hope is our haven
    for the joy of the garden of eden

  34. #34
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Salam Alaikum wrwb

    Harsh but true
    Jazak Allah khair

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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Assalamu alaikum.

    I think the post is harsh.

    Keeping in mind the prophetSAW said "convey even if it is one ayah."

    Sometimes in the course of conveying one may have to do abit of explaining for the other person to understand.

    Ordering good, and forbidding evil is a command everyone must obey, so let's not create unnecessary barriers to that.

    If you are sure of an islamic issue, whether or not you speak arabic, go ahead and preach.

    Thank you.

    Assalamu alaikum.

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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Agree. I make great effort to learn Arabic as a westerner, it does not come easily. Like in English, many words have many meanings, and grammatical morphology and context are the rules for interpretation. I don't know much yet about Qur'an, but doesn't it warn against relying on one's own mind for deriving meaning from the verses and likewise to kill the ego? We should not be so proud to argue over such things from a place of ignorance. Surely we can educate ourselves, and if we cannot, then rely on those who have been sufficiently educated to speak with authority. That said, I cannot see it as wrong to ask questions, only to debate beyond one's depth with responses which have been appropriated from other sources. I do not consider the message harsh at all.

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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by SILURES View Post
    so are all the muslims who cant speak/read arabic missing something in their islam then?

    in the quran it says:

    ”We have made it (the Quran) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed”44:58

    does that mean the arabic language for muhammed and his companions or is it a message to all muslims in any age no matter what they speak?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Yes to the First Question,

    and to the second question, addressed to the Arabs first and then to rest of Humanity ...

    regards
    Assalamu Alikom,

    These two posts make me nervous. I am a newly revert to Islam and have always been worried about lost meaning through translation. I grew up Christian and of course the Bible I read is written in English which is not the native tongue of the Bible. Now, I am Muslim and my native tongue is not Arabic either, so again the translation into English makes me very nervous. All I can say is I rely on Allah SWT to reveal the truth to me in what I read and pray that He helps me understand the interpretations and to someday understand the Arabic language better.

    Jazak Allah khairan

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    Kaffir SILURES's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunset Dawn View Post
    Assalamu Alikom,

    These two posts make me nervous. I am a newly revert to Islam and have always been worried about lost meaning through translation. I grew up Christian and of course the Bible I read is written in English which is not the native tongue of the Bible. Now, I am Muslim and my native tongue is not Arabic either, so again the translation into English makes me very nervous. All I can say is I rely on Allah SWT to reveal the truth to me in what I read and pray that He helps me understand the interpretations and to someday understand the Arabic language better.

    Jazak Allah khairan
    try this site, it gives recitations, tafsir and explanations why the verse was revealed and at what time to understand the reasoniung behind it a bit more.

    http://www.altafsir.com/

    if any muslims could check the site i gave is good to go so as im not giving sunset dawn a dodgy site. thank you.


    also this iste has a learn arabic section where members will help you get a better understanding of the language.

    There are two kinds of pride, both good and bad. 'Good pride' represents our dignity and self-respect. 'Bad pride' is the deadly sin of superiority that reeks of conceit and arrogance.



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    Odan ceeri_sista's Avatar
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunset Dawn View Post
    Assalamu Alikom,

    These two posts make me nervous. I am a newly revert to Islam and have always been worried about lost meaning through translation. I grew up Christian and of course the Bible I read is written in English which is not the native tongue of the Bible. Now, I am Muslim and my native tongue is not Arabic either, so again the translation into English makes me very nervous. All I can say is I rely on Allah SWT to reveal the truth to me in what I read and pray that He helps me understand the interpretations and to someday understand the Arabic language better.

    Jazak Allah khairan

    :

    Don't worry. Even though some of us do understand Arabic, we still have to look up the meaning of words.

    Kind of like how Pickithall's (Rahimahullah) translation uses formal English compared to the newer translations. And of course the highest example is the Qur'an.

    When you are looking at the short translation of an ayah for example on Quran.com click on more than one translation. And that will hopefully give you a better understanding.

    However for a more in-depth understanding of the Quran an Arabic speaker would also have to read from a tafseer.

    I found a good short translation of the Qur'an if you are interested it is by M.A.S. Abdel Haleem. It is contemporary, and easy to read. But remember to read from a tafseer book as well.

  40. #40
    abu sab'a
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    Re: As harsh it may sound I had to make this announcement

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunset Dawn View Post
    Assalamu Alikom,

    These two posts make me nervous. I am a newly revert to Islam and have always been worried about lost meaning through translation. I grew up Christian and of course the Bible I read is written in English which is not the native tongue of the Bible. Now, I am Muslim and my native tongue is not Arabic either, so again the translation into English makes me very nervous. All I can say is I rely on Allah SWT to reveal the truth to me in what I read and pray that He helps me understand the interpretations and to someday understand the Arabic language better.

    Jazak Allah khairan
    I wouldnt worry inshallah, sincerity is the key inshallah. Arabic is not the pre-requisite for Islam. Of course if you have the means and resources then you should try and study it.

    You see in Islam Allah swt doesnt simply punish for right and wrong. The reward and punishment is on your intention.

    A man travelling in the desert set up a camp and decided to leave the pegs in as it may aid any one else passing. The next man to walk past that spot removed them thinking it was a trip hazard. The reward for both is equal

 

 

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