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  1. #1
    Its fine, take a 38mm noobz's Avatar
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    How To Refute Quranists?

    salam alaykum

    new here. Wanted to know how u would refute a quranist who says imam Muslim and Imam Bukhari couldnt even agree on what age Muhammad(sws) died? .

    Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 787:

    Narrated Anas bin Malik:
    The Prophet was neither conspicuously tall, nor short; neither, very white, nor tawny.His hair was neither much curled, nor very straight. Allah sent him (as an Messenger) at the age of forty (and after that) he stayed for ten years in Makkah, and for ten more years in Medina. Allah took him unto Him at the age of sixty, and he scarcely had ten white hairs on his head and in his beard.

    ==>> 60 years.



    Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242:

    Narrated Ibn Abbas:
    Allah's Messenger started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Makkah for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).

    ==>> 63 years .


    Muslim, Book 030, Number 5805:

    'Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported:
    I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said: I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said: I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said: Do you know counting? He said: Yes. He then said: Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Makkah for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.

    ==>> 65 years .

  2. #2
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    Re: How To Refute Quranists?

    I'd start off by telling him that he aint a Quranist, he's a Munkir e Hadeeth **roll eyes**

    Then I'd tell him to go to an 'Alim e Deen and present his questions. If he's sincere in resolving his issues, this advice will suffice him. If he wants to argue and is just using apparently contradictory hadeeth to support his own pre-held ideas then I'd leave him to his business and warn people of him.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

  3. #3
    'Ilm Seeker Ibn Tahir's Avatar
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    Re: How To Refute Quranists?

    1. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...” [4:80] Allah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...” [4:59]

    2. Allah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [24:63]

    3. Allah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: ”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [4:65]

    4. Allah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life...” [8:24]

    5. Allah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “... (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger...” [4:59]

    6. Allah also calls all people who accept Allah but refute the Messenger as 'Real Kafirs': “Verily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.” [4:150-153]


    Also, if the A'imah differed on the age of the Prophet (saw) how does that take one out of the fold of Islam?? But just believeing in the Qur'aan and not the sunnah doesn't make sense.
    It is reported that Anas b. Mâlik was asked about people who drop unconscious when the Quran is recited to them. He said, “That is the behavior of the Khawârij.”

  4. #4
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    The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
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    In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

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    1110010 Peacenik's Avatar
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    Re: How To Refute Quranists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Tahir View Post
    1. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...” [4:80] Allah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...” [4:59]

    2. Allah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [24:63]
    The above Verses should be sufficient for those who deny the Hadiths. I wonder what their reply would be to those Words of ALLAH (SWT) ?
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

    QuranExplorer.com, where you can Listen to the Holy Recitation and Translation online in Arabic and English : http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/

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    Re: How To Refute Quranists?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    The above Verses should be sufficient for those who deny the Hadiths. I wonder what their reply would be to those Words of ALLAH (SWT) ?
    Sorry for bringing up this old thread, but have you read the 'sahih' hadith? Do you really think the prophet asked a women to breastfeed a male who has reached puberty? If you do I'm sorry to say I respect the prophet (peace be upon him) more than you by not agreeing with someone who claims that he said this.

    "Sahih Muslim

    Book 008, Number 3424:

    ' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

    Book 008, Number 3425:

    'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

    Book 008, Number 3427:

    Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely)."

  7. #7
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    Re: How To Refute Quranists?

    I'd say back then people didn't have a calendar as we do today, and years were known by incidents which may have took place in each year.

    I.E year of the elephants.

    So regarding the age of the prophet SallAllahu Alaihe wassallam, there was always a gestimation and it was never a precise calculation, not like today, today we can count up to the minute of how old we are.

    so its not really a proof that a hadith is wrong, the age of rasulullah salallahu alayhe wassallam was a rough estimation and the hadiths that speak of his age have roughly a few years difference, nothing alarming. And that is to be expected.
    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

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    Re: How To Refute Quranists?

    Quote Originally Posted by vader View Post
    Sorry for bringing up this old thread, but have you read the 'sahih' hadith? Do you really think the prophet asked a women to breastfeed a male who has reached puberty? If you do I'm sorry to say I respect the prophet (peace be upon him) more than you by not agreeing with someone who claims that he said this.

    "Sahih Muslim

    Book 008, Number 3424:

    ' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

    Book 008, Number 3425:

    'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

    Book 008, Number 3427:

    Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely)."
    Before coming to any sort of conclusion, we need to first understand the background and context of this incident. Imam Abu al-Abbas al-Qurtubi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his commentary of Sahih Muslim:“Salim (in this Hadith) is Salim ibn Ma’qal…Abu Hudhayfa had adopted him in accordance with the customs of the Arabs. He (Salim) had been brought up and raised by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife as their own son.
    When the verse of the Qur’an “Call them (your adopted children) by (the names of) their (real) fathers….”Surah al-Ahzab, V: 5) was revealed, the ruling of adopting children was abrogated (in that one can no longer consider an adopted son to be one’s own). However, Salim continued to reside and enter the house of Sahla (the wife of Abu Hudhayfa) as he was a minor.
    When he grew old and came close to puberty, both Abu Hudhayfa and Sahla disliked the idea of him entering freely upon Sahla, but they found it difficult to mention this to him, given the fact that he had lived with them (and was brought up by them), hence they asked the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) regarding this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sahla: “Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear” hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)…”
    (al-Mufhim lima Ashkal min talkhis Kitab Muslim, 4/186, Dar Ibn Kathir print)


    It is narrated in the*Tabaqat*of Ibn Sa’d and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one’s awra in front of a non-Mahram adult let alone have him suckled. Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, for Sahla did not directly suckle Salim, as he had reached puberty. Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) has also mentioned this in his*al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa’d, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)



    http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/8424
    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."


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