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  1. #1
    Aslamu alaikum cuezed's Avatar
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    is fast valid after Fajr?

    AlhamdulIllah a sister got up for suhur 1 hour after start of Fajr, and she mistakenly thought the time was before Fajr so she did suhur with the intention of making up a fast today. Later she realised she had suhur late. Is the fast valid or not?
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by cuezed View Post
    AlhamdulIllah a sister got up for suhur 1 hour after start of Fajr, and she mistakenly thought the time was before Fajr so she did suhur with the intention of making up a fast today. Later she realised she had suhur late. Is the fast valid or not?
    Insha'Allah it will be. Even if one eats (in forgetfulness), whilst fasting, it will still be valid (insha'Allah).
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

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  3. #3
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    ^ you sure about that... I think it's a different ruling to eating in forgetfulness.

    But I don't know.

  4. #4
    Aslamu alaikum cuezed's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    Insha'Allah it will be. Even if one eats (in forgetfulness), whilst fasting, it will still be valid (insha'Allah).
    does it come under forgetfulness though? let me explain better. fajr azaan was at 4 oclock. she woke up at 4.45 thinking it was 3.45. she ate before 5 (thinking it is 4) and then after 5 oclock she realised that is was actually 4.45, not 3.45. is the fast valid or no. the intention was there, but mixed up with timing.
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    1110010 Peacenik's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    Insha'Allah it will be. Even if one eats (in forgetfulness), whilst fasting, it will still be valid (insha'Allah).
    Quote Originally Posted by scribble View Post
    ^ you sure about that... I think it's a different ruling to eating in forgetfulness.

    But I don't know.
    From Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saleh Al-Uthaimeen :

    A fast does not break in the case of forgetfulness, ignorance, or compulsion according to Allah’s saying “Our Rabb! Do not punish us if we forget or fall into error” and His saying, “Except who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with faith”.

    And His saying, “And there is sin on you concerning that in which you made a mistake except in regard to what your heart deliberately intend.” (Al-Ahzab: Ayah 5)

    Re. a person eating/drinking in a state of forgetfulness, his/her fast wouldn’t be broken, and if one eats or drinks thinking that the sun has set or the day hasn’t broken, one’s fast is still valid (due to ignorance). Also, if one rinses his mouth letting water go inside his throat by mistake, such rinsing will not break his fast because it is not done intentionally.

    Nocturnal emission (wet dream) also doesn't break the fast because it's not intentional.
    Quote Originally Posted by cuezed View Post
    does it come under forgetfulness though? let me explain better. fajr azaan was at 4 oclock. she woke up at 4.45 thinking it was 3.45. she ate before 5 (thinking it is 4) and then after 5 oclock she realised that is was actually 4.45, not 3.45. is the fast valid or no. the intention was there, but mixed up with timing.
    See above response, Brother.
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    her fast isn't valid. She needs to make the make-up. this deliberate eating does not come under forgetfulness.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    1110010 Peacenik's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    her fast isn't valid. She needs to make the make-up. this deliberate eating does not come under forgetfulness.
    It was an (un-deliberate) error on behalf of the individual, therefore the fast will be valid (insha'Allah); read the following :

    A fast does not break in the case of forgetfulness, ignorance, or compulsion according to Allah’s saying “Our Rabb! Do not punish us if we forget or fall into error” and His saying, “Except who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with faith”.

    And His saying, “And there is sin on you concerning that in which you made a mistake except in regard to what your heart deliberately intend.”
    (Al-Ahzab: Ayah 5)
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    did she make she make the niyah to fast ie the night before she went to sleep? if not then her fast is not valid.
    if she did make niyah then it was purely a mistake and the fast would be valid.
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    Troll Hunter Supreme Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    Insha'Allah it will be. Even if one eats (in forgetfulness), whilst fasting, it will still be valid (insha'Allah).
    Please post evidence from the Quran/Sunnah to support this,

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    It was an (un-deliberate) error on behalf of the individual, therefore the fast will be valid (insha'Allah); read the following :

    (Al-Ahzab: Ayah 5)
    She ate with Deliberation, with the Intention of Eating ...

    It is best for her to Make up that Fast.

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    Odan Al-Mujaahidah's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    Insha'Allah it will be. Even if one eats (in forgetfulness), whilst fasting, it will still be valid (insha'Allah).
    please stop giving fatwaas if you are not sure about something.
    her fast wont be valid at all but there is a diffent rulling when she kept her fast then later she eats by mistake without realising shes fasting

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgk81 View Post
    did she make she make the niyah to fast ie the night before she went to sleep? if not then her fast is not valid.
    if she did make niyah then it was purely a mistake and the fast would be valid.
    its not about making the niyyah here , her fast wont be valid. i am 100% sure thats the fatwaa

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    Account Disabled Medievalist's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    people like to follow what they feel is right and make a ruling about the shariah based on that.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    al Mujaahidah the niyah has everything to do with begining and the end of fasting!!!!!!!!!!!!! one has to make the intention for the fast to be valid.

    does anyone know what deliberate means?????

    eg so when someone is fasting and during the day he walks past the table and takes the sweet and eats it, (putting this in your way of thinking) when you eat something means that there is a want isnt that so, so then that means he deliberately ate the sweet. or does this fall under forgetting that you fasting?

    so now someone overslept and thinks that its not yet fajr and eats, that is deliberate!!!!!!!! yes its deliberate as is would anyone who wakes for suhur, you deliberately eat.
    if it was deliberate (ie knowing that its way past the deadline of suhur) no one would even pose a question, asking, is the fast still valid, unless such a person does not know the rules of fasting.

    and people need more to study the religion ie not from searching the net, make the effort to learn from a qualified teacher.
    and this does not come from what one feels, as one poster has given ayah from the quran as evidence regarding intention (is that what he feels or is it from ALLAH) and if you do research or rather speak to someone with knowledge rather then searching the net, you would get the correct answer.

    and why i ask did she make niyyah the evening is such that some people make the niyyah when waking for suhur, which means if she too did not make the niyyah before fajr then only would her fast not be valid and then should fast again.

    youve put a misinterpretation of deliberate on this one.
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    Spending the days indoors LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    I thought suhr ends when the white thread appears i.e. not on a certain time period.
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    This thread needs to be locked. You are all falling into opinions and interpretations. May Allah forgive us all for that which we say that is incorrect out of ignorance.
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    And then they came for me.

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    First of all, you dont HAVE to make niyyah for nafl fast.

    Making the intention the night before is not a condition of general nafl (supererogatory) fasts, because of the hadeeth narrated by ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), who said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) entered upon me one day and said, ‘Do you have anything [food]?’ We said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘In that case I am fasting.’" (Reported by Muslim, 2/809, ‘Abd al-Baaqi). But in the case of specific nafl fasts such as ‘Arafaah and ‘Aashooraa’, it is better to be on the safe side and make the intention the night before.

    If she was fasting to make up for a fast missed in Ramadan, then she must make niyyah because that is an obligatory fast. But seeing as she did not eat during suhoor and ate after fajr, its best that she repeats that fast.

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    1110010 Peacenik's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Mujaahidah View Post
    please stop giving fatwaas if you are not sure about something.
    I have posted what a Scholar has stated. Please read what's been said before jumping to conclusions.

    JZK.
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    people like to follow what they feel is right and make a ruling about the shariah based on that.
    Even though statements are from respected Scholars ? - Med, aren't you the one that keeps on posting a lot bida stuff on here ?

    Which is why most of your threads get locked ?
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abd ul-Muntaqim View Post
    This thread needs to be locked. You are all falling into opinions and interpretations. May Allah forgive us all for that which we say that is incorrect out of ignorance.
    It shouldnt be locked because there are other opinions too either from the 4 madhabs or from Salafi. that matter.

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
    It shouldnt be locked because there are other opinions too either from the 4 madhabs or from Salafi. that matter.
    It seems even if one posts evidence in light of the Quran and Sunnah, certain people are still not convinced.

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  22. #22
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Title

    Assalamualaikum. I unknowingly(my clock was running slow) had food after the Fajr azan and stopped as soon as I realised my mistake.Will my fast be valid? should I redo my fast?

    Question

    Assalamualaikum Imam Sahib. Last night I got up for Sehri at 5 am and was having my food when a glance at my computer screen showed the time as 7 am(the fajr azan is at 6:31 am). I realised that the clock that I followed was running late by two hours. It was dark outside and I could not make out what the time was.I forsook my food immediately as it was and continued with the fast. I had set my intention for fast in advance. Will my fast be valid. Should I repeat my fast? Please advice. Jazakallah Khair.

    Answer

    The fast is not valid. You must make qadhaa (make up)
    for that fast.

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    Aslamu alaikum cuezed's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgk81 View Post
    did she make she make the niyah to fast ie the night before she went to sleep? if not then her fast is not valid.
    if she did make niyah then it was purely a mistake and the fast would be valid.
    yes she did make intention to fast, the night before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Mujaahidah View Post
    please stop giving fatwaas if you are not sure about something.
    her fast wont be valid at all but there is a diffent rulling when she kept her fast then later she eats by mistake without realising shes fasting
    she made intention the night before that she will get up for sehri before fajr. therefore, according to my limited knowledge, she was in the state of fast when she got up after fajr adhan. but because she got the time wrong and thought fajr has not approached, she ate thinking it was sehri. question is, does this break the fast?


    Quote Originally Posted by mgk81 View Post
    al Mujaahidah the niyah has everything to do with begining and the end of fasting!!!!!!!!!!!!! one has to make the intention for the fast to be valid.

    does anyone know what deliberate means?????

    eg so when someone is fasting and during the day he walks past the table and takes the sweet and eats it, (putting this in your way of thinking) when you eat something means that there is a want isnt that so, so then that means he deliberately ate the sweet. or does this fall under forgetting that you fasting?

    so now someone overslept and thinks that its not yet fajr and eats, that is deliberate!!!!!!!! yes its deliberate as is would anyone who wakes for suhur, you deliberately eat.
    if it was deliberate (ie knowing that its way past the deadline of suhur) no one would even pose a question, asking, is the fast still valid, unless such a person does not know the rules of fasting.

    and people need more to study the religion ie not from searching the net, make the effort to learn from a qualified teacher.
    and this does not come from what one feels, as one poster has given ayah from the quran as evidence regarding intention (is that what he feels or is it from ALLAH) and if you do research or rather speak to someone with knowledge rather then searching the net, you would get the correct answer.

    and why i ask did she make niyyah the evening is such that some people make the niyyah when waking for suhur, which means if she too did not make the niyyah before fajr then only would her fast not be valid and then should fast again.

    youve put a misinterpretation of deliberate on this one.
    again, yes she had made the intention before she went to sleep, before fajr.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoMo_- View Post
    First of all, you dont HAVE to make niyyah for nafl fast.

    Making the intention the night before is not a condition of general nafl (supererogatory) fasts, because of the hadeeth narrated by ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), who said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) entered upon me one day and said, ‘Do you have anything [food]?’ We said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘In that case I am fasting.’" (Reported by Muslim, 2/809, ‘Abd al-Baaqi). But in the case of specific nafl fasts such as ‘Arafaah and ‘Aashooraa’, it is better to be on the safe side and make the intention the night before.

    If she was fasting to make up for a fast missed in Ramadan, then she must make niyyah because that is an obligatory fast. But seeing as she did not eat during suhoor and ate after fajr, its best that she repeats that fast.
    so if anyone has not eaten since fajr salah, and now it's 10 o'clock. he can make the intention now to fast and his (nafl) fast will count? this is new to me.

    and she was intending to make up a fast from the previous Ramadhan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    It seems even if one posts evidence in light of the Quran and Sunnah, certain people are still not convinced.

    May ALLAH (SWT) Guide them - Ameen.
    may Allah reward the ones who go by the Quran and Sunnah.
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    Even though statements are from respected Scholars ? - Med, aren't you the one that keeps on posting a lot bida stuff on here ?

    Which is why most of your threads get locked ?
    What you posted does not apply here because there was no fast to begin with, as she never ate anything for Suhoor. Had she eaten at suhoor and later on in the day she forgetfully ate something then her fast would have been valid provided she stopped as soon as she came to realize.

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    cuezed: in the hanafi madhab, if one is keeping a qadha fast then it wouldn't be valid to wake up after fajr and decide there and then to keep a qadha fast today. rather for a qadha she needs to make the intention before the fast has begun that she is keeping a make-up fast. it's with the nafl fast that a person may make intention after fajr has already enterred to fast that day.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgk81 View Post
    al Mujaahidah the niyah has everything to do with begining and the end of fasting!!!!!!!!!!!!! one has to make the intention for the fast to be valid.

    does anyone know what deliberate means?????

    eg so when someone is fasting and during the day he walks past the table and takes the sweet and eats it, (putting this in your way of thinking) when you eat something means that there is a want isnt that so, so then that means he deliberately ate the sweet. or does this fall under forgetting that you fasting?

    so now someone overslept and thinks that its not yet fajr and eats, that is deliberate!!!!!!!! yes its deliberate as is would anyone who wakes for suhur, you deliberately eat.
    if it was deliberate (ie knowing that its way past the deadline of suhur) no one would even pose a question, asking, is the fast still valid, unless such a person does not know the rules of fasting.

    and people need more to study the religion ie not from searching the net, make the effort to learn from a qualified teacher.
    and this does not come from what one feels, as one poster has given ayah from the quran as evidence regarding intention (is that what he feels or is it from ALLAH) and if you do research or rather speak to someone with knowledge rather then searching the net, you would get the correct answer.

    and why i ask did she make niyyah the evening is such that some people make the niyyah when waking for suhur, which means if she too did not make the niyyah before fajr then only would her fast not be valid and then should fast again.

    youve put a misinterpretation of deliberate on this one.
    mgk81 i am really sorry to say that but this is not the correct way to judge whether someone is learned on not, not telling much about myself but yes i would never give an answer without knowing the fatwaa for a certain masa'la, i have not misinterpretated about this cuz the fatwaa for this masa'la is what post no #22 says,please read it carefully unless you not on the hanafi madhab

    and please understand that this question has nothing to do with the niyyah, then there are two different questions one is what the bro asked and the other one is when someone is fasting then eats by mistake, is his fast valid, thats a totally different question

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    I have posted what a Scholar has stated. Please read
    what's been said before jumping to conclusions.
    JZK.
    once again i have not jumped to any conclusion the fatwaa for fasting after suhur time is gone is that the fast wont be valid,full stop(hanafi madhab)

    Quote Originally Posted by cuezed View Post

    she made intention the night before that she will get up for sehri before fajr. therefore, according to my limited knowledge, she was in the state of fast when she got up after fajr adhan. but because she got the time wrong and thought fajr has not approached, she ate thinking it was sehri. question is, does this break the fast?
    cuezed i know this thread maybe confusing to you but if you are a hanafi, or shall i say if the sis is on the hanafi madhab then the fatwaa is what post 22 says, theres nothing more to argue her fast wont be valid and she will have to make up a qadha for that fas

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    It seems even if one posts evidence in light of the Quran and Sunnah, certain people are still not convinced.

    May ALLAH (SWT) Guide them - Ameen.
    brother, only salafi's dont go by quran and sunnah, even madhaahib people do. So if I would present you a opinion of Imam Abu Hanifa which is other than Bin Baaz and the rest of those shuyookh or your way would you accept?

    I mean that if you go by salafi then to you the scholars like Ibnul Taymiyyah etc.. their fataawa matter and etc.
    Last edited by IbnulQayyim; 05-08-10 at 08:17 PM.

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Cuezed since she made the intention before fajr already, then her fast is valid.

    and there is no such thing as a belated niyyah ie after fajr. imagine performing your salaah without intention even nafl, how can it be accepeted, there has to be an intention before an action.

    al mujaahidah, it was not intented to you, though it is incumbunt on every muslim to seek correct knowledge.
    i'm sorry to say but the reply the mufti has given is too short. here someone comes with an important question and all the mufti says is in short, fast not valid repay ur day.
    he does not even go into detail as to why! would you want not want to know why.
    this is the problem with asking questions on the net, you normally dont get the complete answeres/explanations/details.

    and yes the question asked was not of the niyyah but in order to give a correct answer you need to know the facts and give an answer on the whole not just part and with reason.

    so what happens to someone who oversleeps totally suhur and fajr and he wakes knowing its ramadaan, performs his qadha fajr, and mistakenly eats something before he leaves for work and realises, hey im fasting. is his/her fast valid? cause its a "deliberate" act he would do any other day other then ramadaan. or does it fall under mistake or is his fast not valid?
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
    brother, only salafi's dont go by quran and sunnah, even madhaahib people do.
    Brother IbnulQayyim, I can assure you, the Salafis do go by the Quran and the Sunnah; I'm quite shocked to hear you say they don't.

    So if I would present you a opinion of Imam Abu Hanifa which is other than Bin Baaz and the rest of those shuyookh or your way would you accept?

    I mean that if you go by salafi then to you the scholars like Ibnul Taymiyyah etc.. their fataawa matter and etc.
    I appreciate what you're saying, but I'd rather not go into a debate about this. It's unnecessary and can cause conflicts within the Ummah.
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

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    أهل الرأي. IbnulQayyim's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacenik View Post
    Brother IbnulQayyim, I can assure you, the Salafis do go by the Quran and the Sunnah; I'm quite shocked to hear you say they don't.



    I appreciate what you're saying, but I'd rather not go into a debate about this. It's unnecessary and can cause conflicts within the Ummah.
    hey bro i dinnnt mean that salafi 'dont' go by it. I said that not 'only' do salafis go by it, but i meant that evenn madhaahib go by it by we all got a diff innterpretationn.

    its true i don wanna go inn debate too im not evenn knnnowledgable

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
    hey bro i dinnnt mean that salafi 'dont' go by it. I said that not 'only' do salafis go by it, but i meant that evenn madhaahib go by it by we all got a diff innterpretationn.

    its true i don wanna go inn debate too im not evenn knnnowledgable
    JZK for your post, Brother.
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

    QuranExplorer.com, where you can Listen to the Holy Recitation and Translation online in Arabic and English : http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/

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    Aslamu alaikum cuezed's Avatar
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    seems like there is a difference of opinion on this topic
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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    cuezed: a difference of opinion is one thing, and people making up stuff is another. I dunno if you hanafi or not, but if you are then atleast 3 people have said teh same thing re the hanafi madhab.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    cuezed: a difference of opinion is one thing, and people making up stuff is another.
    'Making up stuff' when Ayats and Hadith are posted ? - best to re-read what's posted before making a comment, Med.
    'Nor say of anything,"I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow" without adding, " if Allah (SWT) Wills" (18:23-24)

    QuranExplorer.com, where you can Listen to the Holy Recitation and Translation online in Arabic and English : http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    Why we have so much disunity? Even among people with big claims and nice avatar, if you go by their avatar one would thing there has not been a zahid like him/her before. Why reply back and forth on non trivial, just mention your opinion and that is it. We need humiliation, we need some body to kill us, or we need some body to line up all and be done with you! Because if this thread is any indication of situation of our ummah this is bad! I can't believe you people. You people are worse then Jews. I got so fed up, I signed up just to say that.

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    Re: is fast valid after Fajr?

    ^ Sorry I don't understand the point you're trying to make.


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