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  1. #1
    yes im 43 alhamdulillah
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    The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    how will the help of allah come when many muslims are thieves

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Allah's help is guaranteed. victory is guaranteed. Muslims will rule the world.That's fact.

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    I speak Sarcasm Hijabistani's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by AHMED BHAI View Post
    how will the help of allah come when many muslims are thieves
    and how do they do benefit fraud.
    "Verily Allah does not look to your appearance or wealth, but he looks to your hearts and your deeds." [Sahih Muslim, Vol. 4, #6221]


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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    ^^ A lot of muslims I know do this it's not uncommon in asian areas. Lying about your circumstances so you recieve benefits which you're really not entitled to.

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    ابو حنيفة AbuIbraheem.'s Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    It's true, many people who pray 5 times a day will lie and defraud the government to gain a few extra pounds of benefit that they are not entitled to

  6. #6
    Glory Be To Him aadil77's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    anyone read about that somali family given a £2.1m house cause of their 7 kids?

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by AHMED BHAI View Post
    how will the help of allah come when many muslims are thieves
    it wont come. don't get me started on Muslims and fraud we'd be here all night lol

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post
    It's true, many people who pray 5 times a day will lie and defraud the government to gain a few extra pounds of benefit that they are not entitled to
    oh but their rizq is from Allah (Swt) aka Tax payers Money so it is okay to defraud the system and cheat people.

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    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    was that somalian family commiting fraud?

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    Glory Be To Him aadil77's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by naila-k View Post
    was that somalian family commiting fraud?
    I don't think so, but its becoming a trend where I live for big somali families to be living off the govt in council homes

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    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    so it is better to be homeless and starve if the father is unemployed then to claim benefits you are legally entitled to?

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    ابو حنيفة AbuIbraheem.'s Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by islam4u2 View Post
    oh but their rizq is from Allah (Swt) aka Tax payers Money so it is okay to defraud the system and cheat people.
    They see it as Manna wa Salwa

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    ابو حنيفة AbuIbraheem.'s Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by naila-k View Post
    so it is better to be homeless and starve if the father is unemployed then to claim benefits you are legally entitled to?
    Fraud is when you claim what you are not entitled to.

    Many get council homes and rent them out for a profit, whilst living in overcrowded conditions with their parents, others work but lie about how much they earn.

    If they are entitled to the benefits then its not fraud.

    But then again, most people are better off on benefits then they would be working, this is the way the system has been set up

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    i was referring to aadil who was saying that somalian family werent commiting fraud but thought it neccessary to bring it up on this thread about fraud a trend in this happening.....

    and i dont know how you can survive on benefits tbh, espescially long term, how can a family of 4 or 5 live on £800 a month? esp when it is likely that around £80 goes on rent top up if u in london coz the LHA rates dont cover average cost of renting, and a travel card costs £6 so if you want to go and look for work 3 times a week that adds up to £70 a month, and that is just one persons travel cost, the wife is going to have travel costs aswell, so she can travel to inlaws or parents and keep in touch with family and take the kids there, and bills, nappies, we spend around £50 a month on milk for kids!

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post
    They see it as Manna wa Salwa
    what's that sounds like a sweet dish?

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by islam4u2 View Post
    what's that sounds like a sweet dish?
    See Surah Ta-ha


    ﴿يبَنِى إِسْرَءِيلَ قَدْ أَنجَيْنَـكُمْ مِّنْ عَدُوِّكُمْ وَوَاعَدْنَـكُمْ جَانِبَ الطُّورِ الاٌّيْمَنَ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَنَّ وَالسَّلْوَى



    (80. O Children of Israel! We delivered you from your enemy, and We made a covenant with you on the right side of the Mount, and We sent down to you manna and quail,)

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    live islam 24/7 dawud_uk's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    did anyone ask their intention of why they did the fraud before they condemned?

    ok, some do it just because they can, lets face it most taxi drivers, muslim and non muslim claim they only work a few hours, take housing benefit and that is usually straight up theft.

    but some muslims take the line of this being darul harb so their wealth is halal to take, i am not saying they are right but i know several deobandi scholars who permit benefit fraud on this basis.
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    Glory Be To Him aadil77's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by dawud_uk View Post
    did anyone ask their intention of why they did the fraud before they condemned?

    ok, some do it just because they can, lets face it most taxi drivers, muslim and non muslim claim they only work a few hours, take housing benefit and that is usually straight up theft.

    but some muslims take the line of this being darul harb so their wealth is halal to take, i am not saying they are right but i know several deobandi scholars who permit benefit fraud on this basis.
    I know maulana sindhi shares similar views, he encourages muslims to have 6-7 kids like somali's and not worry about financial capabilty

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    AHMED BHAI welcome back.

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by aadil77 View Post
    I know maulana sindhi shares similar views, he encourages muslims to have 6-7 kids like somali's and not worry about financial capabilty
    We shouldn't worry about the sustinance of our kids because we put our faith in Allah (swt) to provide, not in the British government!

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    live islam 24/7 dawud_uk's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by aadil77 View Post
    I know maulana sindhi shares similar views, he encourages muslims to have 6-7 kids like somali's and not worry about financial capabilty
    ok but that is not cases of fraud, that is legitimate entitlement, just the same as a dhimmi living in a future islamic state would recieve benefits from us.
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    What bothers me (i don't know if it is the same in UK) is that council houses are taken as forever homes instead of using it as a temporary place.

    Because sometimes your situation improves, you have the means to take a private flat but you don't. Therefore those who are in real need of a house and are still waiting for these council houses. I know that in my town there are 15 years waiting list and i see people doing well, still living in these council houses. There should be a turn-over.

    The same with benefits, the more there are frauds the more it is difficult for people in need to get those benefits they are entitled to, because you have to bring more proofs, it takes more time which you may not have.

    Sorry to be severe on these frauders but at the end it is the needy who pay for the consequences.
    A lot of them forget that benefits comes from tax-payers pockets meaning your parents, family and neighbours, the government just uses these taxes for this purpose.
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    Glory Be To Him aadil77's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post
    We shouldn't worry about the sustinance of our kids because we put our faith in Allah (swt) to provide, not in the British government!
    That's what he also says, but surely if you're unemployed you should take it easy with the kids

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    ابو حنيفة AbuIbraheem.'s Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by aadil77 View Post
    That's what he also says, but surely if you're unemployed you should take it easy with the kids
    Tafsir of 6:161

    Allah said,

    ﴿وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلَـدَكُمْ مِّنْ إمْلَـقٍ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ﴾

    (Kill not your children because of poverty, We shall provide sustenance for you and for them.) After Allah commanded kindness to parents and grandparents, He next ordered kindness to children and grandchildren. Allah said,

    ﴿وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلَـدَكُمْ مِّنْ إمْلَـقٍ﴾

    (kill not your children because of poverty,) because the idolators used to kill their children, obeying the lures of the devils. They used to bury their daughters alive for fear of shame, and sometimes kill their sons for fear of poverty. It is recorded in the Two Sahihs that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said, "I asked the Messenger of Allah , `Which sin is the biggest' He said,

    «أَنْ تَجْعَلَ للهِ نِدًّا وَهُوَ خَلَقَك»

    (To call a rival for Allah, while He Alone created you.) I said, `Then what' He said,

    «أَنْ تَقْتُلَ وَلَدَكَ خَشْيَةَ أَنْ يَطْعَمَ مَعَك»

    (To kill your son for fear that he might share your food.') I said, `Then what' He said,

    «أَنْ تُزَانِي حَلِيلَةَ جَارِك»

    (To commit adultery with your neighbor's wife.) Then the Messenger of Allah recited the Ayah,

    ﴿وَالَّذِينَ لاَ يَدْعُونَ مَعَ اللَّهِ إِلَـهَا ءَاخَرَ وَلاَ يَقْتُلُونَ النَّفْسَ الَّتِى حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ وَلاَ يَزْنُونَ﴾

    (And those who invoke not any other god along with Allah, nor kill such person as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse...) ﴿25:68﴾.'' Allah's statement,

    ﴿مِّنْ إمْلَـقٍ﴾

    (Because of Imlaq) refers to poverty, according to Ibn `Abbas, Qatadah, As-Suddi and others. The Ayah means, do not kill your children because you are poor. Allah said in Surat Al-Isra',

    ﴿وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَوْلادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلَـقٍ﴾

    (And do not kill your children for fear from Imlaq.) ﴿17:31﴾, that is, do not kill your children for fear that you might become poor in the future. This is why Allah said,

    ﴿نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُم﴾

    (We shall provide sustenance for them and for you) ﴿17:31﴾, thus mentioning the provision of the children first, meaning, do not fear poverty because of feeding your children. Certainly, their provision is provided by Allah. Allah said,

    ﴿نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ﴾

    (We provide sustenance for you and for them,) thus starting with parents, because this is the appropriate subject here and Allah knows.


  25. #25
    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Allah decides how many kids you have, not yourself. DO you really think you have power over life and death?

    whats darul harb?

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    الفقير إلى رحمة الله ahaneefah's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by dawud_uk View Post
    did anyone ask their intention of why they did the fraud before they condemned?

    ok, some do it just because they can, lets face it most taxi drivers, muslim and non muslim claim they only work a few hours, take housing benefit and that is usually straight up theft.

    but some muslims take the line of this being darul harb so their wealth is halal to take, i am not saying they are right but i know several deobandi scholars who permit benefit fraud on this basis.
    Yes on the basis of darul harb - their wealth becomes halal.

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by ahaneefah View Post
    Yes on the basis of darul harb - their wealth becomes halal.
    Muslims also pay tax. I hate these people and I mean I hate them regardless of their race and religion. I have at times worked 70 hours a week in the most dificult situation and health. . Yet these people eho are perfectly fine live off MY tax when they could honestly find work or are baby producing factories.

    Let me give you an example. Omar Bakri and Anjum Choudry are 2 good examples. They can work but yet choose to live off benefits becuase they follow the view that the "wealth" is halal.

    If that is the case then and any Muslim who follows that view is not subjected to any law. For example that Muslim kills a non muslims. If the innocent civilian wealth is halal surely his life is too.

    The consequences are far too reaching and Id like to know your view on this.

    There are many families I know who have 8/10 kids on welfare. The reason they are on welfare is that the man or woman cannot find a job that pays to cover the costs, so what happens they live of the welfare state and people like myself have to pay.

    Id like to add Mobile Connections and Fonezone owners, if they followed such an opinion then they are not guilty.

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    I agree with Vuvu, some people work hard in difficult conditions and their taxes are collected for people who do not move a finger and are inconscient in their actions.
    It is not very fair to be honest. Benefit was created for people in need not people in no need
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    hmmm

    8-10 kids? are u in uk or states?

    maybe then you should look at the government policies, any system which makes it more profitable to be unemplyed then to work is inherently flawed, i am not saying neccesarily reduce unemployment benefits, because tbh i cant see how anyone can live of them for a great deal of time as i have stated above, I am saying things like working tax credit, child care payments etc need to continue if you want to see people in work. and the system needs to be worked out so if you are working mimimum wage you are ending up earning more then you would recieve on benefits. for example something simple like half price travel would make it more economical for those on low income to go to work, and child care costs.

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by Massilia View Post
    I agree with Vuvu, some people work hard in difficult conditions and their taxes are collected for people who do not move a finger and are inconscient in their actions.
    It is not very fair to be honest. Benefit was created for people in need not people in no need
    I am allergic to French People but I would have to look past that and say I agree with You...

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by naila-k View Post
    hmmm

    8-10 kids? are u in uk or states?

    maybe then you should look at the government policies, any system which makes it more profitable to be unemplyed then to work is inherently flawed, i
    Thats a load of nonsense

    1. An average person will have a 2/3 bedroom house.
    2. An average income for a small family of 2 adults and 2 kids

    When you have more kids your income cannot provide for them. It gets to a stage

    1. Your home is too small for your family needs
    2. Your income is insuffient to meet the needs of your family

    Solution.

    1. Find a high pay job

    Problem

    1. You may not find one
    2. You are NOT EDUCATED TO SUCH A LEVEL

    You turn to the state for help.

    1. The state looks at your family size and needs.
    2. It provides to cover this

    What do you suggest

    1. Provide £10,000 per annum even if they are 10 people in the family?

    What happens when the state provides

    1. You get more money than you would earning
    2. Why would you work to earn less when you get more doing nothing?

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    well even if you on a low income you would still get housing benefit right? and according to rules you have 2 kids in every room so for a 3 bedroom house thats 4 kids and 2 adults, even if you going to work your housing benefit still going to get paid? so the bigger house size dont really come in to it?

    tbh as a single person i used to spend 10k a year, let alone as a family.......

    I understand what you are saying about having less kids, and educating yourslef, but the fact is even people with degrees and masters and who have been to law school are finding it hard to find jobs......

    and at the end of the day Allah controls how many kids you have, and Allah determines your rizq, as a muslim it is haram to not have kids as you are afraid of finances.....

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Benefit Mujahids. Its got absolutely nothing to do with the fact they don't have the patience or humility to stick with a job longer than a few months. **roll eyes**

    Tbh seeing people like that I dont blame the english people for getting narked at having scroungers flooding the country..

    Btw - if it's benefit jihad then why do they keep the money to go and spend at asda, shouldnt they be supporting the "brothers". But then we'll hear "akhee we can't send the money because of x,y,z and we need the money ourselves for our a,b,c."

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    its a fact, so many Muslims are involved in benefit fraud, its shocking and disgusting. haram money.
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Ahhh dont worry give it a few more months and it will all change under the new Government.

    To be honest Its actually quite frustrating because the people who REALLY need the money, who cannot work for a genuine reason have to go through immense stress and appeals etc to get money they are entitled to and then others who have no real need for it get awarded it instantly
    وَالْعَصْرِ

    إِنَّ الْإِنسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ

    إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ


    If Allah (swt) only sent this Surah to us for the guidance of Mankind, this will be enough for us” - Imam Shaafi'ee r.a.


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  36. #36

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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Benefit Mujahids. Its got absolutely nothing to do with the fact they don't have the patience or humility to stick with a job longer than a few months. **roll eyes**

    Tbh seeing people like that I dont blame the english people for getting narked at having scroungers flooding the country..

    Btw - if it's benefit jihad then why do they keep the money to go and spend at asda, shouldnt they be supporting the "brothers". But then we'll hear "akhee we can't send the money because of x,y,z and we need the money ourselves for our a,b,c."

    hypos.
    One of the best quotes were from the brothers of Islam4UK led by Anjum Choudry. They got fined and all were on benefits and said they are not going to pay for it but the tax payer is.

  37. #37
    umm sumaiya naila-k's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    who gets awarded it instantly? lol people loose their jobs and the benefits will make them wait 3 or 4 months before they even give them money to pay rent and by that time their landlord will be evicting them and they have to leave family home, if you have a landlord who is understanding it is good.

    tbh every time ive dealt with these people ive ended up in tears out of frustration!

    I think some of the problem is families who encourage their dils etc to claim so they can take the money for themselves and get the housing benefit, and sometimes dont really give them a choice....

    Recipes for all the family
    (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

  38. #38
    Super Moderator Jenicca's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    I was reffering to DLA naila.....we've made claims for some people who blatntly need the help and cant work due to a disability and then then DLA office will deny the claim and it has to go throught the whole appeal process. Its been more so atm
    وَالْعَصْرِ

    إِنَّ الْإِنسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ

    إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ


    If Allah (swt) only sent this Surah to us for the guidance of Mankind, this will be enough for us” - Imam Shaafi'ee r.a.


    Revive A Sunnah


    The Qur'an Club !!

  39. #39
    الفقير إلى رحمة الله ahaneefah's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Benefit Mujahids. Its got absolutely nothing to do with the fact they don't have the patience or humility to stick with a job longer than a few months. **roll eyes**

    Tbh seeing people like that I dont blame the english people for getting narked at having scroungers flooding the country..

    Btw - if it's benefit jihad then why do they keep the money to go and spend at asda, shouldnt they be supporting the "brothers". But then we'll hear "akhee we can't send the money because of x,y,z and we need the money ourselves for our a,b,c."

    hypos.
    Many 'jihadis' work.

    Maybe those Jihadis who are not working may start a new group - Ahlu Sunnah Wal Jobseekers Allowance (ASWJA)

  40. #40
    الفقير إلى رحمة الله ahaneefah's Avatar
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    Re: The scourge of benefit fraud amongst muslims in uk

    What do the Ahnaaf say regarding taking Ribaa money in Darul Harb?


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