Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Results 1 to 27 of 27
  1. #1
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,964
    Rep Power
    198

    Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Salam,

    It's been a looooong time since I looked up this issue so I can't remember the references off the top of my head. I'd appreciate it if someone can please post some evidences on this issue. There's a common misconception that the consent of the first wife is mandatory in order for a Muslim man to marry again. I'd prefer to have direct Q&S references on this matter rather than long fatwas but if a fatwa also contains and explains the evidences as well then I'd accept that as a source too. I'm not one of these people who's happy to just see a fatwa in which a sheikh just says "yes this is permitted" or "no that is not permitted" just because it's from a scholar, rather I prefer to see one in which the Q&S evidence is quoted as the basis of the fatwa and then explained. Hope you understand, jazakallah khayr.

  2. #2
    Odan IDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    2,658
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    all the scholars response that I have seen is that the permission is not required and that is because there are no hadith that indicate that and the Qur'an does not either, so cant provide you proof lol

    except that we saw many sahaba or the prophet saws who simply decided to take more wives, we never heard them ask them or anything like that, so that is proof that it is not necessary

    the basic principle though is, that as marriage is a mutual contract, yes the husband has the right to marry more, but you cant force him to forgo his right, he can however choose to want only one wife

    if you are not happy with him marrying another wife, then you can simply stipulate this at time of marriage, if he changes his mind later and wants to marry another wife, you can choose to divorce him because your contract arrangements are broken, and all scholars agree that you can put this as condition before marriage that you want to be the only wife, but if he later wants to take another wife, you can choose to stay or leave

  3. #3
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,964
    Rep Power
    198

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Jazakallah khayr, you've largely stated something I already knew but needed to be reminded about. I was commenting on a different blog in which someone happened to claim that a particular man went against Islamic rules by marrying a second wife without seeking the consent of the first and it made my blood boil. The poster didn't specify a gender or religion but I'm fairly sure it's a Muslim woman who doesn't know better and when I told her this was incorrect she accused me of wronging her *scratches head*. I don't normally take posts too personally but it put me in a foul mood and I had to set her straight. Here was my response:

    I don't want to bring this up as I don't want to digress so I'm hoping this will be my last post on the issue of polygamy in the Muslim community. I just felt Sam's post warranted some clarification.

    Sam,

    How have I wronged you? I just stated the facts and if there were any errors or inconsistencies in what I said then I'm disappointed that you didn't present any evidence to explain why. Do you even know how Islamic rules are derived in the first place? If not, then I'll explain it to you and if you see anything incorrect in my understanding of the issue then by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

    The first and primary source one can look at to find information on the Islamic rules of marriage and divorce is the Quran closely followed by Hadiths. The Quran is quite explicit in stating to Muslim men that they can "marry them two, three or four" and then goes on to say that if a man cannot treat them equally then he should stick to one and to fear God in this matter because they'll be called to account if they are unfair to their wives (I paraphrase the translation but it is mostly words to that effect). What counts as 'equality' and 'fairness' can be a somewhat subjective issue but what isn't subjective is the fact that the Quran gives general permission for a man to marry more than once without the specific restriction of only doing so if the first wife is barren or the other reasons you stated.

    Second source of evidence are the Hadiths which contain ample references to the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and the lives of his companions (ra) in which he often arranged their marriages as well as his own and voiced his disapproval whenever anyone breached the limits set in Islam on those issues. During that time, several of his companions married more than one woman, some married widows and orphaned young women (so that they'd have the added protection of a male guardian as an attempt to please God) and some didn't.

    At no point whatsoever was there any restriction placed on the specific reasons for marrying more than once, neither in the Quran, nor in the Hadiths, nor even in the 3rd source of reference, the consensus of the companions (ra), nor the fourth source of reference, the writings of early scholars of the four main schools of thought, Imams: Malik, Shafi, Hanbal or Abu Hanifa.

    Neelu
    Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:12:00 PM

    Anonymous said...Sorry I exagerrated in my previous post and can't find an edit function to correct it. When I said "no reason whatsoever", I meant that none of the reasons you gave in your previous post were ever stipulated as prerequisites for marrying more than once.

    There were OTHER rules regarding marrying more than once such as the assumption that the man should have the income and means to support more than one wife and family etc, but that's a separate issue. There being a higher ratio of women to men or a high number of widows was never a prerequisite, that's my main point.

    Neelu

    PS: if you have evidence to the contrary of what I said, please stick as much as possible to the four main sources of evidence: Quran, Sunnah, Sahaba and the early scholars. These days anyone can find any dom d!ck or harry scholar on google claiming to justify anything but it isn't legit unless it's backed up by the original sources of evidence.

    NB: Grrrr in my response to her I completely forgot to add that these marriages did not involve seeking consent from the first wife and there's no evidence to suggest that they did. Grrr *slaps Neelu on the wrist*
    Last edited by neelu; 16-03-10 at 11:26 PM. Reason: NB:...

  4. #4
    Spending the days indoors LailaTheMuslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,071
    Rep Power
    70

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Its something u should interrogate future husbands to be about b4 u get married. But if i was infertile i wouldn't mind my man takin up another wife
    WhenTheWorldPushesYouToYourKnees-
    You'reInThePerfectPositionToPray (Islam.07)


    The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O people, beware of this shirk, for it is more subtle than the footsteps of an ant. The one whom Allaah willed should speak said to him, “How can we beware of it when it is more subtle than the footsteps of an ant, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “Say, Allaahumma innaa na’oodhu bika min an nushrika bika shay’an na’lamuhu wa nastaghfiruka limaa laa na’lam (O Allaah, we seek refuge with You from knowingly associating anything with You, and we seek Your forgiveness for that which we do unknowingly).” (Narrated by Ahmad, 4/403)


    “My intercession will be for those among my ummah who have committed major sins.” [Classed as Sahih by al-Albaani in Sahih Abi Dawood, 3965]

    Formpring me:

    http://www.formspring.me/LailaTheWailer

  5. #5
    Odan IDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    2,658
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    @ neelu

    there is no hadith to say permission is required
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/12544/second%20wife

    but what people need to realise, is that this isnt unfair, because in any marrriage all partners have the right to be happy and you cant force anybody to give up their rights unless they decide out of kindness to forgo their rights...so if a man wants another woman, you cant stop them, but you can choose what you youself want and leave and then marry someone who wants only one, if you had the right to force a man to stay wtih you only, I dont know which woman would be happy wtih that, knowing the only reason he is with you only is becasue he has no choice and not because you are enough for him

    similarly, if a wife is not happy with her husband, she can leave and marry another, does the husband have the right to force her not to? no, so it really is the same

    it just looks on the surface like men are getting a better deal, but they are not, unless you are willing to accomodate them out of your own will

  6. #6
    New Member Dhirar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    17
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    True.

    You don’t HAVE to seek consent from your first wife before looking for marrying a second.

    However the few second marriages that I have seen actually work, have been where a true informed consent has been granted in an open and honest matter. You have to understand that if a guy was going to marry a second wife then why wouldn’t he consult his first wife about this beforehand? It is doomed to failure from the start if he is going to bulldoze his way through his wife’s wishes and feelings regardless and go ahead and marry a second wife anyway. I knew a sheikh who did do just this and it ended in disaster. The problem is confounded when you try and keep one wife secret from the other it ends up in lying, deceit and eventual mistrust end resentment where something has to give.

    We know women are incredibly sensitive creatures that are also very jealous and need treating delicately most of the time. No women no matter how religious will take lightly that her husband wants to marry another woman. Also very few women are willing to share their man with his first wife and would much rather that he divorce his first wife because the idea of their husband being intimate with another woman is something that is unbearable.

    The best situation is to be honest with your wife from the outset. No-one has the right to make the halal haram and vice versa. Unfortunately societal taboos are difficult to get rid off but as muslims we shouldn’t care about these anyway. The only way that the first wife will agree to her husband marrying again is if their relationship is strong and concrete in the first place with immense trust and honesty. Counter-intuitive I know because the majority of men looking for second marriages are doing so because of a failing first but they don’t realise that in doing so they will have two failed marriages. Why would a man look for a second marriage if he has a strong first marriage anyway? That is a natural question. The answer is that men are deep down in their nature polygamous whether they admit to it or not. Few people are fortunate enough to have everything they have ever wanted found in just one woman. What your first wife needs to be told though is that the second wife is in no way a replacement but more of a supplementation/addition . Nothing can hurt a woman more than to be told that the person she loves more than anything else on earth loves someone else. However if she is confident in herself that her husband does love her but she understands that he requires something extra then she may well let him marry again because above all she wants him to be happy.

    In order to do justice to two wives you have to be in partnership and not a competition. You are accountable for time and money spent on each of them and this will only be made easier if everyone is working together. It is important to note that you are not accountable for how much you love either of your wives and all of which that entails (intimacy). Because Allah acknowledges that you can never do complete justice in all matters with our wives no matter how we may desire it (see 4:129) but that we have to try our best and not to end up leaving one or the other hanging.


    Sorry long winded post but summary is consent should be sort and is corteous to do so because the only reason you wouldn't seek consent is because you know the answer will be NO, so instead of tackling the problems/obstacles that are preventing your 1st wife from understanding WHY you require a second wife you just brush it under the carpet and hope it will go away? I mean its the momentous decision u are going to take surely ur wife deserves to be informed. So if ur wife says no is it halal to go ahead anyway? yes but then ur starting off on a shaky foundation from the start. Best to secure up your first marrriage and build on firm foundations rather than destine another to be doomed.
    Last edited by Dhirar; 17-03-10 at 08:45 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes
    Please Re-update your Signature

  7. #7
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,964
    Rep Power
    198

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Dhirar, I agree that a first wife should be consulted and think it is wrong for a man to marry another woman without even discussing it with his first wife or doing it in such a way that the second wife doesn't know he's already married etc. Using deceit to start a marriage or conceal it or somehow trick a wife is wrong but that's not the issue here. In fact our discussion was regarding a man whose wife always knew he intended to marry a second time so deceit was never the issue.

    The issue here is the assumption some women make that if a first wife insists that her husband cannot marry again then there are many people out there who think that this is binding from an Islamic legal standpoint- which it is not. I agree that if a first wife doesn't want her husband to marry again then this can cause him problems in his next marriage and she has the right to divorce him if she cannot live her life like that, but that's a far cry from suggesting that in ISLAM, he has no right to marry a second or third time unless the previous wife says yes. Anyway, just when I thought I'd made things quite clear in the blog response i get this reply which I've put in italics- get ready to cringe *cringe cringe ugh*:

    Would Al Azhar be good enough?

    The 'Mufti' has decreed that a man 'must' notify the first wife, offecially and through the courts, with his intention to take another wife - and allowed the first wife one whole year to object and be entitled to immediate and 'forceful' divorce with all her, and that of her children, legal rights protected, even if the husband has taken another already. If that's not seeking first wife's permission, I don't know what is! And, it may be the reason why so many men don't even dare think it, eh?

    And, with regards to the reasons allowed, you yourself mention why men of wealth married widows to help and protect them and their kids. I am no authority on Islam and can't remember Quran, or Hadith to prove, but, what I knew all my life, is that men need good reason to seek a second wife, some, as stated in my previous comment .. me, being An Egyptian Sunni (Never knew I was one till I got here!)Sunnis, of course, follow the teachings of Al-Azhar, the most prominent and comprehensive scholar entity ever, as well as the oldest university in the world!

    Then again, I see Islam that I do not recognise as such here!


    So to recap: she brings nothing from Quran, Sunnah, Ijma or the classical scholars, but somehow dishing out the name 'Al Azhar' is meant to be better than all that. I think I'm going to be sick!

  8. #8
    Odan IDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    2,658
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by neelu View Post
    Dhirar, I agree that a first wife should be consulted and think it is wrong for a man to marry another woman without even discussing it with his first wife or doing it in such a way that the second wife doesn't know he's already married etc. Using deceit to start a marriage or conceal it or somehow trick a wife is wrong but that's not the issue here. In fact our discussion was regarding a man whose wife always knew he intended to marry a second time so deceit was never the issue.

    The issue here is the assumption some women make that if a first wife insists that her husband cannot marry again then there are many people out there who think that this is binding from an Islamic legal standpoint- which it is not. I agree that if a first wife doesn't want her husband to marry again then this can cause him problems in his next marriage and she has the right to divorce him if she cannot live her life like that, but that's a far cry from suggesting that in ISLAM, he has no right to marry a second or third time unless the previous wife says yes. Anyway, just when I thought I'd made things quite clear in the blog response i get this reply which I've put in italics- get ready to cringe *cringe cringe ugh*:

    Would Al Azhar be good enough?

    The 'Mufti' has decreed that a man 'must' notify the first wife, offecially and through the courts, with his intention to take another wife - and allowed the first wife one whole year to object and be entitled to immediate and 'forceful' divorce with all her, and that of her children, legal rights protected, even if the husband has taken another already. If that's not seeking first wife's permission, I don't know what is! And, it may be the reason why so many men don't even dare think it, eh?

    And, with regards to the reasons allowed, you yourself mention why men of wealth married widows to help and protect them and their kids. I am no authority on Islam and can't remember Quran, or Hadith to prove, but, what I knew all my life, is that men need good reason to seek a second wife, some, as stated in my previous comment .. me, being An Egyptian Sunni (Never knew I was one till I got here!)Sunnis, of course, follow the teachings of Al-Azhar, the most prominent and comprehensive scholar entity ever, as well as the oldest university in the world!

    Then again, I see Islam that I do not recognise as such here!


    So to recap: she brings nothing from Quran, Sunnah, Ijma or the classical scholars, but somehow dishing out the name 'Al Azhar' is meant to be better than all that. I think I'm going to be sick!
    you need to chill brother

    if you are worried that this somehow will affect you then you shouldnt as only Allah has everything in His hands

    similarly you should not worry for others either, women are upset and will always be, you cant shut them up, however if a man wants to prove that he diesnt need her permission he can becaue there is proof for that, so no need to get upset what these women are saying, of course they are hurt, you would be too

  9. #9
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,964
    Rep Power
    198

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    I sent another reply this time I sent it directly to her blog rather than derail the topic of the blog our debate started on. Her blog didn't instantly show my post as it would require moderator approval first so I'll mention this gist of it here in case she doesn't approve it and I don't want to forget what I wrote. I wrote salam and then something like this:

    It's a shame that in spite of being a Sunni Muslim raised in an Arab country, you still haven't been taught the very basics of what Islam is and how Islamic rules are derived otherwise you would've known that your response was wholly inadequate. Amongst other things, I quoted Surah Tauba verse 31 onwards about how "they worshipped their priests and rabbis" because Allah (swt) gave them scriptures and instead of obeying the scriptures people obeyed what their religious leaders were saying who were corrupting the religion for money or power. I then said this wasn't just a history lesson about the past, it was a warning for the Ummah to follow the Quran and Sunnah and that the scholar's job is to explain and teach these rules on that basis, not make up their own rules without any backing from scriptures and expect us to follow them instead of Allah (swt). That was basically the gist of what I wrote and I know she wont like it as it'll knock her ego and directly challenges the sort of so called 'Islam' she was raised to follow, but it remains to be seen whether my post is challenged or responded to or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    you need to chill brother
    Looool that just cracked me up- don't worry you're not the first to make that mistake ROFL!!

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    similarly you should not worry for others either, women are upset and will always be, you cant shut them up,
    Loooooool thanks akhi, I needed that laugh for today

  10. #10
    Odan IDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    2,658
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by neelu View Post
    I sent another reply this time I sent it directly to her blog rather than derail the topic of the blog our debate started on. Her blog didn't instantly show my post as it would require moderator approval first so I'll mention this gist of it here in case she doesn't approve it and I don't want to forget what I wrote. I wrote salam and then something like this:

    It's a shame that in spite of being a Sunni Muslim raised in an Arab country, you still haven't been taught the very basics of what Islam is and how Islamic rules are derived otherwise you would've known that your response was wholly inadequate. Amongst other things, I quoted Surah Tauba verse 31 onwards about how "they worshipped their priests and rabbis" because Allah (swt) gave them scriptures and instead of obeying the scriptures people obeyed what their religious leaders were saying who were corrupting the religion for money or power. I then said this wasn't just a history lesson about the past, it was a warning for the Ummah to follow the Quran and Sunnah and that the scholar's job is to explain and teach these rules on that basis, not make up their own rules without any backing from scriptures and expect us to follow them instead of Allah (swt). That was basically the gist of what I wrote and I know she wont like it as it'll knock her ego and directly challenges the sort of so called 'Islam' she was raised to follow, but it remains to be seen whether my post is challenged or responded to or not.



    Looool that just cracked me up- don't worry you're not the first to make that mistake ROFL!!



    Loooooool thanks akhi, I needed that laugh for today
    which mistake did I make? sorry if I am missing the joke but seriously you come here complaining that some sister upset you, you sound like a nagging wife akhi lol

    you are looking to vent, so you are making us victims to your rant and it is especially torturous since we had nothing to do with it LOL

  11. #11
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,964
    Rep Power
    198

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Sorry akhi I wasn't trying to mock you, it's just that your response was so unexpected it made me laugh. I'm not a brother and I thought I did mention that in my previous post but silly me- looks like I forgot. Anyone curious as to how the debate is going can take a look at her blog comments here:

    http://chezsams.blogspot.com/2010/02/hey-judge.html

  12. #12
    I count di stables
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    868
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    you state in your marriage contract that he isnt alloud to marry another woman

  13. #13
    umm Ayman
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    4,985
    Rep Power
    41

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by SoMaLi_PRinCeSs View Post
    you state in your marriage contract that he isnt alloud to marry another woman
    ???

    I heard some ulama do not agree with this Allah knows best
    And to Allah belong the soldiers of the heavens and the earth, and ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. [And] that He may admit the believing men and the believing women to gardens beneath which rivers flow to abide therein eternally and remove from them their misdeeds - and ever is that, in the sight of Allah , a great attainment.

    Surah Fatĥ 4/5

  14. #14
    with purple dots SkyBluePink's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    2,463
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    i thought it was universally agreed that it is allowed?

  15. #15
    I count di stables
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    868
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by sum5 View Post
    ???

    I heard some ulama do not agree with this Allah knows best
    you can put wateva you want in your marriage contract it how we do it...

    like for example you discuss second marriages n you tell the brother before hand its not sumfin you want to comply in or involved in. so if he disagree's then you dont marry each other if he agree's the marriage contract is written with witnesses there.

    also you can put down money how much he has to give you if you ever was to get a divorce.. what he owes you could be anything could be money a book or a shoe i put down £500 000..

    you can put down wateva ...

    iinfact i remember a brother asking for advice in our community because his first wife wrote a contract no second wife and he wanted to break the contract....
    or jst make him swear on the quran.. that will mke sure he never will
    and if he dont wanna do it then plenty more fish in the sea.!!! n you know his true intentions for your marital life..

  16. #16
    umm Ayman
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    4,985
    Rep Power
    41

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    I get that but some ulama say it's not allowed not all of them will do it for you i.e the marriage contract
    And to Allah belong the soldiers of the heavens and the earth, and ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. [And] that He may admit the believing men and the believing women to gardens beneath which rivers flow to abide therein eternally and remove from them their misdeeds - and ever is that, in the sight of Allah , a great attainment.

    Surah Fatĥ 4/5

  17. #17
    Don't be afraid to PM me
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    848
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    u cant stipulate in ur marriage contract that ur husband cant take a 2nd wife.
    this is against what allah has allowed.
    therefore any such condition would be null n void.

  18. #18
    Away. Soliloquy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,008
    Rep Power
    126

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by wifeseeker View Post
    u cant stipulate in ur marriage contract that ur husband cant take a 2nd wife.
    this is against what allah has allowed.
    therefore any such condition would be null n void.
    Hmm, that's what I thought. Perhaps it's something best discussed before marriage.
    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
    O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  19. #19
    Away. Soliloquy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,008
    Rep Power
    126

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    @ neelu

    there is no hadith to say permission is required
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/12544/second%20wife

    but what people need to realise, is that this isnt unfair, because in any marrriage all partners have the right to be happy and you cant force anybody to give up their rights unless they decide out of kindness to forgo their rights...so if a man wants another woman, you cant stop them, but you can choose what you youself want and leave and then marry someone who wants only one, if you had the right to force a man to stay wtih you only, I dont know which woman would be happy wtih that, knowing the only reason he is with you only is becasue he has no choice and not because you are enough for him

    similarly, if a wife is not happy with her husband, she can leave and marry another, does the husband have the right to force her not to? no, so it really is the same

    it just looks on the surface like men are getting a better deal, but they are not, unless you are willing to accomodate them out of your own will
    I think the bold is definitely not as straight forward in society and that maybe why it is MUCH harder for a woman to get a divorce.

    In regards to the a woman being the once to ask for divorce in Islam, I don't know how they would do that... I've never really read upon it - something to do soon, I guess.

    Ya Muqallib al-Quloob, thabbit qalbi 'alaa Deenik
    O' Converter of Hearts, make my heart steadfast upon Thy Way
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.

  20. #20
    I count di stables
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    868
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by wifeseeker View Post
    u cant stipulate in ur marriage contract that ur husband cant take a 2nd wife.
    this is against what allah has allowed.
    therefore any such condition would be null n void.
    You can put wateva it is you want in your marriage certificate its not forced upon us to be in pologymous marriage its wat allah gave us freedom of choice in.....being oppressedn unhappy is not part of islam...n allah has made it like that...

  21. #21

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    1,852
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    If a man doesn't have the morals to consult with his first wife regarding adding additional wives, and/or keeps the previous wives a secret from additional wives, what recourse do the wives, or society have for enforcing the rights of all of the wives, and their children? The relationships, marital, and societal are all based on deceit from the man actions.
    If he is not proud enough, or certain enough to be transparent in all his relationships, how would society regulate his behavior?

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    58
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Neelu, although you have stated the facts, I believe you neglected to show the spirit of Islam and sensitivity towards the sister's complaint. Although the letter of Islam definitely permits men to marry another wife without permission of the first wife, the spirit of Islam does not. This spirit may not necessarily be written down in hadith, Qur'anic ayat, etc, but it does exist and scholars will share such sentiments. They will tell you that although he doesn't have to tell her or seek her permission, he should. Although a man has a right to do pretty much whatever he wants, it doesn't mean his actions are always supported by Islam, even when permitted. For example, a man is discouraged from divorcing his wife 3 times all at once, but if he does so, it is accepted in Islam, even though it is highly discouraged. Taking on more than one wife does not require permission of the first wife, but the spirit of Islam says that the first wife should know about the decision and should be okay with it, where possible. The evidence is in what you have said. That if a wife is not displeased by the action of her husband taking another wife, she has the choice to stay or leave. How can she exercise this choice when she is blindsided by him taking another wife without her being informed? Her action to stay or leave should be one of careful thoughtfulness, not just a reaction to being hurt. His marriage with the first wife is a trust, and to take on another trust without consultation is a violation of the first trust. And if taking on such a new trust, causes undue hardship for the first trust, and breaks down the marriage, then it is a decision made without shura (mutual consultation). In every matter of our deen, that is serious, we are encouraged to have mushura.

  23. #23
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    4
    Rep Power
    5

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    I am a fairly new sister, so please forgive my ignorance about many things, but I'm surprised at alot of the answers. Just because we put something in our marriage contract does not mean that it's okay. We still have to stand before Allah (SWT) and explain our actions. It seems like it would be haraam to try and keep a husband from the rights Allah (SWT) has given him??? I've given alot of thought to this topic because I'm divorced, with grown children and at 57 I would still like to marry again, but only as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife. I don't feel like I have the right to be married again, if I am at the same time putting limits on my husband, so someone else can't have what I have. Since about a third of us sisters will not have a husband, unless we are willing to share one or illegally marry a non-Muslim, this is an issue about a sister's rights too or at the very least the quality of her existence. Polygny is for us and benefits us sisters more than it does the brothers. One of the things that really made an impression on me is the 'verse' or hadith (I'm sorry I can't remember where it came from) that said something like, we should want for others what we want for ourselves. I think I mangled that, but if we care about our Ummah, we want it to be healthy. We have to solve our problems. Allah (SWT) gave us a way, but we're not comfortable with it, so it's each man (or woman) for themselves!?! That isn't good for us, but people are often too westernized to accept the alternatives. We need to ignore society and listen to Allah (SWT).

    I've been married and I had children and although I don't want to spend the rest of my life celibate, I would not have to grieve over the children I never had, like those who never married. If I were married and we could afford it, I would encourage my husband to marry again, inshallah. I'm sure it would bother me some, but Allah (SWT) doesn't give us things that harm us. Neither the Qur'an or the sunnahs say that a man must ask his wife or that he must obey her. It does talk about making her happy, treating her gently and with respect. If a man is smart and compassionate, the topic will come up long before he has plans. Hopefully she already knows what a good Muslim he is. But he will keep her informed. He will make his wife a part of his future and not just an observer. I know some families with two and three wives and the women are very happy. Most said it was a challenge to begin with, but now they wouldn't have it any other way. They love their time off. I'm a bit of a hermit myself, but I love taking care of someone and I want someone to share Islam with too, so it sounds like the best of both worlds.

    I have noticed that this topic can make people irritable at times. I hope I haven't offended anyone. We do tend to be selfish, myself included, when it comes to love. I was alot more jealous and possessive when I was younger. I hope that means I'm growing, but it could just mean I'm getting lazy.

  24. #24
    Odan IDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    2,658
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    I didnt read all your long post sorry, but you are not stopping your man from marrying another woman by putting that condition in your contract, you are merely protecting yourself where it will allow you to seek divorce if he does that. A man can still go and marry another woman even if you put that in your contract, but it means you can now ask for divorce if you want to. I assume you know that the wife cannot ask for a divorce without a legitimate reason...since polygamy is not haram it might be difficult to get a divorce had she not put that in her contract. If she puts it in the contract then the husband is obliged to uphold their agreement of monogamy but if he chooses to marry another wife thereby breaking that agreement, then she is free to break from the marriage since the agreement was not honored

    just as you cant stop your husband from marrying more women, he cannot force you to stay in polygamous relationship either

    it may be painful to both parties to part, but such is life, both have rights, and both can forgo those rights or make choices

  25. #25
    ابو حنيفة AbuIbraheem.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    5,136
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    I didnt read all your long post sorry, but you are not stopping your man from marrying another woman by putting that condition in your contract, you are merely protecting yourself where it will allow you to seek divorce if he does that. A man can still go and marry another woman even if you put that in your contract, but it means you can now ask for divorce if you want to. I assume you know that the wife cannot ask for a divorce without a legitimate reason...since polygamy is not haram it might be difficult to get a divorce had she not put that in her contract. If she puts it in the contract then the husband is obliged to uphold their agreement of monogamy but if he chooses to marry another wife thereby breaking that agreement, then she is free to break from the marriage since the agreement was not honored

    just as you cant stop your husband from marrying more women, he cannot force you to stay in polygamous relationship either

    it may be painful to both parties to part, but such is life, both have rights, and both can forgo those rights or make choices
    Depends which school of thought you follow - I know the Hanafi's (especially the earlier scholars) consider the stipulation invalid and therefore unenforcable.

    It doesn't stop a sister asking for Khula'a though and that is different.

  26. #26
    Odan IDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Girl Unspecified
    Posts
    2,658
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post
    Depends which school of thought you follow - I know the Hanafi's (especially the earlier scholars) consider the stipulation invalid and therefore unenforcable.

    It doesn't stop a sister asking for Khula'a though and that is different.
    well the whole point of putting it in the contract is so as to allow you to seek divorce, not so you can stop the man from marrying

    obvously a man does not know what he wants now and how things will change in the future, and you cannot ask someone to give up their rights unless they want to, so I dont think anyone puts that in their marriage contract in order to stop the man, maybe they do but they are wrong for that, you can only put it so as to make it easy to seek divorce

    but like you said, even if you dont put it in the contract, you can still seek divorce on basis of harming you emotionally etc

    I dont know why anyone would want to force their man to stay with you alone if he doesnt want to, so I doubt they understand what they are saying

  27. #27
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Gender
    Girl Female
    Posts
    7,964
    Rep Power
    198

    Re: Needing 1st wife's consent for 2nd marriage

    Jazakallah khayr IDK and Amatullah for reading my posts in the first place and giving a sensible response rather than certain others who've jumped to conclusions based on the fact they only skim read about a quarter of what was actually said. Even though these points were clarified earlier on, I'll repeat myself for those who missed the point the first time round:

    Point one: The thread was regarding a discussion about a man whose wife ALREADY KNEW he intended to marry a second wife throughout their years of marriage- so there is no issue here of deceit, or a man marrying a second time in secret or hiding his second marriage in any way

    Point two: The point of contention was Sam stating that Islamically, a Muslim man cannot marry a second wife without the consent of his first wife PERIOD! There was no splitting hairs over whether the wife stipulated no second marriage in the nikah contract, there was no leeway given about whether it's allowed in theory but not "in the spirit" of Islamic law. As far as she was concerned, if a first wife says no to her husband's wish for a second marriage, then 'Islamically' he cannot marry- a false assertion which even the "spirit" of Islam does not agree with. She also claimed that the grand miffy of Al Azhar said this, but so what- that's a whole other issue.

    Point three: A woman can make all sorts of stipulations on her nikah contract, including a statement that she does not want her husband to marry again and allowing her the right to a divorce if he does so. This stipulation is permitted in Islam BUT from an Islamic legal view, it does not prevent the husband from marrying again so under Islamic law, he can still marry again even though that's what the nikah contract says. At the time of the Prophet (saw), a woman stipulated in her nikah contract that she didn't want her husband to move away from the town they were in. The Prophet (saw) said words to the effect that this stipulation was not binding and her husband can move to another town if he so wishes.

    Have I missed anything? Yes I know, only a coward gets married a second time without even bothering to inform or discuss or consult with his first wife or tell the second wife he's already married but that really wasn't what the discussion was about as the debate was regarding a husband and wife who didn't use this sort of deceit or secretiveness in their relationship. I think this post covers the bases.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:26 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Super PM System provided by vBSuper_PM (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Skin By: PurevB.com

MPADC.com Islamic Web Hosting | Muslim Ad Network | Islamic Nasheeds | Islamic Mobile App Developement Android & iPhone
Omar Esa Nasheed Artist
| Omar Esa Nasheeds | Islamic Web Hosting : Muslim Designers : Nasheeds : Labbayk Nasheeds : silk route jilbab: Hijab: : Web Islamic Newsletter: Islamic Web Hosting

Hijabs Online | Hijabs | Hijab Shop | Hijab Shop | AlJazeera Live, MBC Live, Makkah Live : Treasure of The Scholars