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    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    The Fitnah of Takfir

    The Fitnah of Takfir



    The accusation upon Majority of Muslims being Mushrikeen by certain people who think that their own personal set of beliefs are right, is a major strife which has been lurking around in Muslim Ummah. Some even go to the extent of accusing the great Hanafi Muslims as a whole (including the respectable Deobandis and Barelvis) on the other hand they consider Shi’ites as Kafirs without any second thought.


    Let see how the Prophet (Peace be upon him) looked at Shirk in Muslim Ummah as compared to the self assumed Tawhid of certain extremists who show up with different names but mostly they belong to the same La Madhabiyyah sect.





    The way how Prophet (Peace be upon him) looked at it



    أن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏خرج يوما فصلى على أهل ‏ ‏أحد ‏ ‏صلاته على الميت ثم انصرف إلى المنبر فقال ‏ ‏إني ‏ ‏فرط ‏ ‏لكم وأنا شهيد عليكم وإني والله لأنظر إلى حوضي الآن وإني أعطيت مفاتيح خزائن الأرض ‏ ‏أو مفاتيح الأرض ‏ ‏وإني والله ما أخاف عليكم أن تشركوا بعدي ولكن أخاف عليكم أن تنافسوا فيها ‏



    Translation: Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Amir: One day the Prophet went out and offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud and then went up the pulpit and said, "I will pave the way for you as your predecessor and will be a witness on you. By Allah! I see my Fount (Kauthar) just now and I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth) ”BY ALLAH! I AM NOT AFRAID THAT YOU WILL WORSHIP OTHERS ALONG WITH ALLAH AFTER MY DEATH, BUT I AM AFRAID THAT YOU WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER FOR THE WORLDLY THINGS”



    ►Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428: (Sahih Bukhari)




    Three Important points are to be noted from this hadith:



    (A) This hadith itself proves that Prophet (Peace be upon him) has been granted “all” the keys to the treasures of the earth, the ironic thing is that this itself is shirk according to the extremists because they believe Prophet was an ordinary man who did not know of future. If you look carefully the hadith says that Prophet was watching his fount right from the earth, this proves the great Basarat (sight) of this mighty Prophet and If these claimants who say Prophet was just an ordinary man like us have any shame in them, then they should prove that they also see Jannah right from the earth.



    (B) The Prophet (Peace be upon him) took an oath upon Allah, yes note again “OATH UPON ALLAH” and said that he is not afraid we will worship others along with Allah after his death, now these extremists are in actual claiming to know more than Prophet (Peace be upon him) who settled it once and for all by taking oath that we will not worship others along with Allah after his passing away.



    (C) The Prophet (Peace be upon him) explained that We will fight with one another for “WORLDLY THINGS” ! So how does this fighting start? It starts by calling other Muslims as Kafir, tell us one Muslim on this earth who would like to be called as Kafir?







    Hadith #2



    باب ‏ ‏قتل ‏ ‏الخوارج ‏ ‏والملحدين ‏ ‏بعد إقامة الحجة عليهم ‏ ‏وقول الله تعالى ‏
    وما كان الله ليضل قوما بعد إذ هداهم حتى يبين لهم ما يتقون ‏‏وكان ‏ ‏ابن عمر ‏ ‏يراهم شرار خلق الله ‏ ‏وقال إنهم انطلقوا إلى آيات نزلت في الكفار فجعلوها على المؤمنين


    Translation: Allah T’ala said: And Allah will not mislead a people after He hath guided them, in order that He may make clear to them what to fear (and avoid)- for Allah hath knowledge of all things. 9:115)



    Bukhari relates from ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (Allah be well pleased with him) "Ibn `Umar considered the Khawarij and the heretics as the worst beings in creation, and he said: They went to verses which were revealed about the disbelievers and applied them to the Believers.[Sahih Bukhari, Chapter of Killing the Khawarjites and Mulhideen, Volume No. 6, Page No. 2539]



    This hadith is very important and it exposes the evil nature of the extremist sect like a bright sun. You will always see them misusing the Ayahs revealed for Kufaar and applying them upon Muslims, wait a minute “EVEN UPON THE PROPHET” yes I say again even “UPON THE PROPHET” so rest assured that their attribute is that of Khawarij who apparently looked and still look very religious, who recite Quran beautifully, who pray as If our prayers are inferior to theirs but in reality they pass through the religion just like an arrow passes through the target.



    Quran states: O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!.. (4:94)

    What a beautiful ayah, even when we go for Jihad and if someone offers us salutation then we are ordered not to call them disbelievers, but look at the extremists who call even Muslims as disbelievers let alone other.








    Hadith #3


    Narrated Usama bin Zaid: Allah's Apostle sent us towards Al-Huruqa, and in the morning we attacked them and defeated them. I and an Ansari man followed a man from among them and when we took him over, he said, "La ilaha illal-Lah." On hearing that, the Ansari man stopped, but I killed him by stabbing him with my spear. When we returned, the Prophet came to know about that and he said, "O Usama! Did you kill him after he had said "La ilaha ilal-Lah?" I said, "But he said so only to save himself." The Prophet kept on repeating that so often that I wished I had not embraced Islam before that day.

    ►Volume 5, Book 59, Number 568: (Sahih Bukhari)

    Subhan Allah this is an explicit proof that any Muslim who testifies by saying "La Ilaha Il Allah" cannot be declared as Mushrik, do the extremists still claim to know more than Prophet (Peace be upon him), rather Quran itself?





    Hadith #4

    ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أنس بن مالك ‏ ‏قال ‏
    قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏ثلاث من ‏ ‏أصل ‏ ‏الإيمان ‏ ‏الكف ‏ ‏عمن قال لا إله إلا الله ولا نكفره بذنب ولا نخرجه من الإسلام بعمل والجهاد ماض منذ بعثني الله إلى أن يقاتل آخر أمتي ‏ ‏الدجال ‏ ‏لا يبطله ‏ ‏جور ‏ ‏جائر ‏ ‏ولا عدل عادل والإيمان بالأقدار ‏


    Translation: Anas bin Malik (ra) narrates from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) who said: Three things are the roots of faith (1) To refrain from (killing) a person who says “La ILaha IL Allah” (2) Not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits (3) and also not to declare him out of Islam due to any of his deed. Jihad continues from the day I was sent as Prophet to the day that last member of my community fight with the Dajjal. The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine Decree. [Sunnan Abu Dawud, Volume No. 2, Hadith # 2170]







    Hadith #5


    أن حذيفة يعني ابن اليمان رضي الله عنه حدثه قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم «إن مما أتخوف عليكم رجل قرأ القرآن حتى إذا رؤيت بهجته عليه وكان رداؤه الإسلام اعتراه إلى ما شاء الله انسلخ منه ونبذه وراء ظهره وسعى على جاره بالسيف ورماه بالشرك» قال قلت يانبي الله أيهما أولى بالشرك المرمي أو الرامي ؟ قال «بل الرامي»
    إسناد جيد

    Translation: Hudhaifa i.e. Ibn al Yaman (ra) said that the Prophet (saw) said: Verily, I fear about a man from you who will read the Qur'an so much that his face will become enlightened and he will come to personify Islam. This will continue until Allah desires. Then these things will be taken away from him when he will disregard them by putting them all behind his back and will attack his neighbor with the sword accusing him of Shirk. The Prophet was asked - which of the two will be deserving of such an accusation? - The attacker or the attacked? The Prophet replied - the attacker (the one accusing the other of Shirk)



    ►Narrated by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Tahqiq Nasir Albani, Volume 001, Page No. 200, Hadith Number 81] Nasir Albani said: 'this hadith is hasan' also see [Silsilat al-ahadith al-sahihah - Albani Volume 007-A, Page No. 605, Hadith Number 3201] Click Here for Scanned Page (80)

    ►Narrated by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Volume No. 1, Page No. 282,

    ►Bukhari in his Tarikh ul Kabir, Volume No. 4, Page No. 301,

    ►Haythami in Majma Az Zawaid, where he declared its chain to be “Hassan”, Imam Ibn Kathir declared the Chain as “Jayyid (strong)” in his Tafsir al Quran al Azim, Volume No. 2, Page No. 266]








    Hadith #6

    كنت في حلقة بالكوفة إذا رجل يحدث قال كنا جلوسا مع ابي هريرة فمر فتى فقال رجل من الحلقة هذا كافر من أهل النار فقام أبو هريرة حتى أتى الفتى فقال من انت انا فلان بن فلان رحم الله اباك قال فجعل الفتى يلتفت فقال إلام تلتفت قال لم أصل قال وتصلي فقال سبحان الله فقال وتقول سبحان الله قال لا إله إلا الله قال وتقول لا إله إلا الله فقال ما أريد أني تركت الصلاة وأن لي ما على وجه الأرض قال رحمك الله رحمك الله ثم جاء حتى أخذ مجلسه

    فقال سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول . من شهد على مسلم بشهادة ليس لها بأهل فليتبوأ مقعده من النار


    Translation:"We were sitting in a circle in Kufa with Abu Hurayra whereupon a young man passed by. A man sitting with us said: 'This is a Kafir from among the people of the Fire.' Abu Hurayra rose and went to speak with the young man, asking him: 'Who are you?' He replied: Son of so-and-so.' Abu Hurayra said: 'Allah have mercy on your father!' The young man was looking around, so he asked him: 'What are you looking for?' He replied: 'I have not prayed yet.' Abu Hurayra said: 'So you pray?' The young man replied: 'Subhan Allah!' Abu Hurayra: 'And you say Subhan Allah?' He said: 'La Ilaha illAllah!!' Abu Hurayra: 'And you say La Ilaha illAllah?' The young man said: 'I would prefer not to leave Salat even if I were given all there is on the face of the earth.' Abu Hurayra said: 'Allah have mercy on you. Allah have mercy on you. Allah have mercy on you.' Then he came back to his seat in the circle and said: 'I heard the Messenger of Allah say: "Whoever bears testimony against a Muslim of which the latter is not deserving, let him prepare for himself a seat in the Hell fire." [Imam Ibn Asakir in Tibyan al Kadhib al Muftari, Page No. 373]







    Hadith #7

    عن عبيد الله بن عمر عن نافع أن رجلا قال لإبن عمر أن لي جارا يشهد علي بالشرك فقال قل لا إله إلا الله تكذبه

    Translation: From `Ubayd Allah ibn `Umar, from Nafi`: A man said to Ibn `Umar: "I have a neighbor who bears witness against me that I commit shirk." He replied: "Say: 'La Ilaha ill Allah,' you will make him a liar."[Imam Ibn Asakir in Tibyan al Kadhib al Muftari, Page No. 373]



    Hadith #8


    عكرمة يعني ابن عمار قال ثنا سوار بن شبيب الأعرجي قال كنت قاعدا عند ابن عمر فجاء رجل فقال يا ابن عمر إن أقواما يشهدون علينا بالكفر والشرك فقال ويلك أفلا قلت لا إله إلا الله قال فقال أهل البيت لا إله إلا الله حتى ارتج البيت

    Translation: Akrama i.e. Ibn Ammar said that he heard Sawwar ibn Shabib al-A`raji say that he was sitting in Ibn `Umar's house when a man came and said: "O Ibn `Umar! There are groups of people bearing witness against us and attributing to us kufr and shirk." Ibn `Umar replied: "Woe to you! Did you not say: 'La Ilaha IllAllah'?!" Whereupon the entire household began to say La Ilaha Ill Allah until the house was shaking.[Ibid]

    Hadith #9



    ثنا الأعمش عن أبي سفيان قال أتينا جابر بن عبد الله وكان مجاورا بمكة وكان نازلا في بني فهر فسأله رجل فقال هل كنتم تدعون أحدا من أهل القبلة مشركا قال معاذ الله وفزع لذلك قال هل كنتم أظنه تدعونه كافرا قال لا

    Translation: From al-A`mash, from Abu Sufyan:We came to see Jabir ibn `Abd Allah who lived in Makkah and resided with the Banu Fihr. A man asked him: "Did you [the Companions] use to call anyone from the People of the Qibla [i.e. Muslims], 'Mushrik'?" He replied: "I seek refuge in Allah." The man continued: "Did you call anyone from them 'Kafir'?" He said: "No."[Ibid]

    Muslims should exclaim loudly : "Subhan Allah" and "La Ilaha il Allah" till all of us make a roar, then Alhamdulillah we will make the accusers as liars themselves!


    We would like to conclude our article with these verdicts from Imam Ibn Abideen ash-Shami (rah) and Allama Ahmed Sawi (rah)


    Imam Ibn Abideen ash-Shami (rah)



    قوله : ويكفرون أصحاب نبينا صلى الله عليه وسلم ) علمت

    أن هذا غير شرط في مسمى الخوارج ، بل هو بيان لمن خرجوا على سيدنا علي رضي الله تعالى عنه ، وإلا فيكفي فيهم اعتقادهم كفر من خرجوا عليه ، كما وقع في زماننا في أتباع عبد الوهاب الذين خرجوا من نجد وتغلبوا على الحرمين وكانوا ينتحلون مذهب الحنابلة ، لكنهم اعتقدوا أنهم هم المسلمون وأن من خالف اعتقادهم مشركون ، واستباحوا بذلك قتل أهل السنة وقتل علمائهم حتى كسر الله تعالى شوكتهم وخرب بلادهم وظفر بهم عساكر المسلمين عام ثلاث وثلاثين ومائتين وألف )

    (رد المحتار على الدر المختار (4/ 262) كتاب البغاة)

    Translation: (Ibn ‘Abidin His words and who consider the Companions of our Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) to be disbelievers are not a condition for someone to be a kharijite, but rather are a mere clarification of what those who revolted against ‘Ali (Allah Most High be well pleased with him) in fact did. Otherwise, it is enough to be convinced of the unbelief of those they fight against, as happened in our own times with the followers of [Muhammad ibn] ‘Abd al-Wahhab, who came out of the Najd in revolt, and took over the sanctuaries of Mecca and Medina. They followed the Hanbali madhhab, but believed that they were the Muslims, and that those who believed differently than they did were polytheists (mushrikin). On this basis, they held it lawful to kill Sunni Muslims (Ahl al-Sunna) and their religious scholars, until Allah Most High dispelled their forces, and the armies of the Muslims attacked their strongholds and subdued them in 1233 A.H. [1818] [Ibn Abideen – Rahimuhullah in Radd ul Mukhtar ala Dur al Mukhtar, Volume No.4, Page No. 262]





    Imam Ahmed al Sawi (Rahimuhullah)



    Imam Ahmed al Sawi (Rahimuhullah) in his magnificent commentary over Tafsir al Jalalyn by Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti (rah) explains this verse : Truly, the Devil is an enemy to you, so take him as an enemy: he only calls his party to become of the inhabitants of the blaze" (Qur’an 35:6) as:


    وقيل هذه الآية نزلت في الخوارج الذين يحرفون تأويل الكتاب والسنة ويستحلون بذلك دماء المسلمين وأموالهم كما هو مشاهد الآن في نظائرهم، وهم فرقة بأرض الحجاز يقال لهم الوهابية يحسبون أنهم على شىء ألا انهم هم الكاذبون، استحوذ عليهم الشيطان فأنساهم ذكر الله أولئك حزب الشيطان ألا إن حزب الشيطان هم الخاسرون، نسأل الله الكريم أن يقطع دابرهم

    Translation: It is said this verse was revealed about the Kharijites [foretelling their appearance], who altered the interpretation of the Qur’an and Sunnah, on the strength of which they declared it lawful to kill and take the property of Muslims—as may now be seen in their modern counterparts; namely, a sect in the Hijaz called "Wahabiya, (فرقة بأرض الحجاز يقال لهم الوهابية)" who "think they are on something, truly they are the liars (Kadhibeen). Satan has gained mastery over them and made them forget Allah’s remembrance. Those are Satan’s party, truly Satan’s party, they are the losers" (Qur’an 58:18–19). We ask Allah Most Generous to extirpate them completely [Hashiya al-Sawi ‘ala al-Jalalayn, 3.255]

    Note: This Tafsir was tried to be forged and the sentence which mentions Wahabiyyah was removed by the same sect in order to fool people, but they were unsuccessful in it.

    Original article: http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php...=82&Itemid=145
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by truffaut View Post
    you are a joke, and a disgrace to Islam

    apart from that, an outstanding guy
    Christian and Jewish terrorists are a disgrace to humanity.

  3. #42
    wal 'aqibatulil muttaqeen Uthman Ibn Afan's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    I'll stick to what Qur'an and Hadith actually say, and not what scholars say they say.

    You want to listen to what scholars say it says then you will be worshipping trees and fire eventually. Scholars opinions are as varied as the flowers.

    Qur'an and Hadith make it VERY clear not to call someone a kafir and judge anyone, because YOU DO NOT KNOW GHAIB, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS GHAIB. Judging someone is GHAIB ONLY ALLAH KNOWS.

    You may THINK and you may PERCEIVE that someone goes against Qur'an and Sunnah, but the responsibility of determining if that person really is going against Qur'an and Sunnah is the head of the Islamic state, and then they will try that person according to Shariah. And if the person warrants punishment according to Shariah, then they will receive Shariah's punishment justly in this life. But ALLAH IS THEIR JUDGE in the next life.

    You do not even have the responsibility nor the authority to judge according to Shariah IN THIS LIFE, let alone to call someone kafir and say they are occupants of hell in the next. ASTAGFIRULLAH.

    It may be that you call someone kafir because they praise Ali(AS) and then tomorrow you are praising Ali(AS) so you just called yourself kafir!

    It may be that you call a drunk a kafir because he doesn't believe in Islam! It may be that you are drunk tomorrow and not believing in Islam!

    So guard yourself from Shaytan! Seek refuge with Allah!
    no one calls people kaafir for praising Ali , praising the sahaba is a good thing. but if someone raises anyones status so that its equal to prophethood then thats kufr, because it undermines the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad
    also no one calls people kaafir for being drunk; being drunk is a sin not kufr.



    takfir is not a fitna, because it is a part of Islam and its from the practice of the sahaba. excessive takfir is dangerous though.
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    HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

    Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

    "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

    "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
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    wal 'aqibatulil muttaqeen Uthman Ibn Afan's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    brother, this is like for example the prophet saws said, may Allah curse the adulterers but you cant curse a single adulterer, this is what the scholars say, so similarly while Allah may call christians or whoever kuffar, you cant call a single person that because you dont know what is in the heart of this person, it is not what you call yourself but what you actually are in your heart, just like someone may call themselves a salafi but in fact not follow the salafs at all, so it is not what you call yourself but what you have in your heart, and since each heart is differnt we cannot say that for a particular person
    if they hold beliefs that take them out of Islam, then we cant call them Muslim.
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    HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

    Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

    "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

    "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
    Shaykh Akram Nadwi


    Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


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    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    no one calls people kaafir for praising Ali , praising the sahaba is a good thing. but if someone raises anyones status so that its equal to prophethood then thats kufr, because it undermines the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad
    also no one calls people kaafir for being drunk; being drunk is a sin not kufr.



    takfir is not a fitna, because it is a part of Islam and its from the practice of the sahaba. excessive takfir is dangerous though.
    Quote the Qur'an if you're truthful.
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Quote the Qur'an if you're truthful.
    If you can read Quran, read Surah al Kafirun.

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    الله مولانا ولا مولى لهم Abu Jaffar's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Quote the Qur'an if you're truthful.
    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَنْ تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الضَّالُّونَ (90) إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَمَاتُوا وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ فَلَنْ يُقْبَلَ مِنْ أَحَدِهِمْ مِلْءُ الْأَرْضِ ذَهَبًا وَلَوِ افْتَدَى بِهِ أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ وَمَا لَهُمْ مِنْ نَاصِرِينَ (91)سورة البقرة



    90)Lo! those who disbelieve after their (profession of) belief, and afterward grow violent in disbelief: their repentance will not be accepted. And such are those who are astray.
    (91)
    Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul). Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.
    Surat Al Imaran

    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    If you can read Quran, read Surah al Kafirun.
    Authu bilahi minaysh shaytani Rajeem, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem....

    Yaaaaaaa ayyyuhal Kafiroooonnn...

    LaaaaaAaaa 3a'bodoo maaaaaa t3a'budooonnn....

    Wa laaAAAaAaAa annnntoom 3a'bidoonamaaaaaaa 3'abud.

    Wa LaaAaaa ana 3abidummaaaaa 3a'batooom.

    Wa LaAAAaAAaA annnntooom 3a'bidoonaamaaaa 3'abud.

    Lakummm deenookummm wa liyaaa deeeennn...




    Ameen.
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَنْ تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الضَّالُّونَ (90) إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَمَاتُوا وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ فَلَنْ يُقْبَلَ مِنْ أَحَدِهِمْ مِلْءُ الْأَرْضِ ذَهَبًا وَلَوِ افْتَدَى بِهِ أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ وَمَا لَهُمْ مِنْ نَاصِرِينَ (91)سورة البقرة



    90)Lo! those who disbelieve after their (profession of) belief, and afterward grow violent in disbelief: their repentance will not be accepted. And such are those who are astray.
    (91)
    Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul). Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.
    Surat Al Imaran

    I don't see where it says "And call them kafir" or "Make takfir on these people" or "Kill them because they are kafir"

    Do you see where it says that?
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَنْ تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الضَّالُّونَ (90) إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَمَاتُوا وَهُمْ كُفَّارٌ فَلَنْ يُقْبَلَ مِنْ أَحَدِهِمْ مِلْءُ الْأَرْضِ ذَهَبًا وَلَوِ افْتَدَى بِهِ أُولَئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ وَمَا لَهُمْ مِنْ نَاصِرِينَ (91)سورة البقرة



    90)Lo! those who disbelieve after their (profession of) belief, and afterward grow violent in disbelief: their repentance will not be accepted. And such are those who are astray.
    (91)
    Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul). Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.
    Surat Al Imaran

    Read Again
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Authu bilahi minaysh shaytani Rajeem, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem....

    Yaaaaaaa ayyyuhal Kafiroooonnn...

    LaaaaaAaaa 3a'bodoo maaaaaa t3a'budooonnn....

    Wa laaAAAaAaAa annnntoom 3a'bidoonamaaaaaaa 3'abud.

    Wa LaaAaaa ana 3abidummaaaaa 3a'batooom.

    Wa LaAAAaAAaA annnntooom 3a'bidoonaamaaaa 3'abud.

    Lakummm deenookummm wa liyaaa deeeennn...




    Ameen.
    I didn't ask you to read like a parrot. Read and understand if you have common sense.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    I don't see where it says "And call them kafir" or "Make takfir on these people" or "Kill them because they are kafir"

    Do you see where it says that?
    'Call them kafirs' and 'kill them for their kufr' are two different things.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    Read Again
    Again bro, please tell me where it says "And call them kafir" or "Make takfir on these people" or "Kill them because they are kafir"

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    I don't see where it says "And call them kafir" or "Make takfir on these people" or "Kill them because they are kafir"

    Do you see where it says that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    I didn't ask you to read like a parrot. Read and understand if you have common sense.

    Astagfirullah

    Chapter Number 48 of Kitab ul-Tawhid by Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab

    Who makes fun of anything where mention is made of Allah or the Qur'an or the Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) Commits disbelief


    “If you ask them (about this), they declare: 'We were only talking idly and joking.' Say: 'Was
    it at Allah (May Allah be pleased with him) and His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons,
    signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him)
    that you were mocking? ' " (9:65)

    Ibn Umar, Muhammad bin Ka'b, Zaid bin Aslam and Qatadah ((May Allah be pleased with him)) narrated the following Hadith: In the course of the campaign of battle Tabuk, a man carne up one day and declared: "We have seen no people with greater appetite, more lying, more cowardly in battle than those people," he meant Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) and his Companions. Awf bin Malik rose and said, "In fact, you are the liar and a hypocrite (Mundfiq) and I will inform Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) about your words." So he went to Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) but by then he (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) was already informed through a revelation. Meanwhile, the hypocrite also approached Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) when he (May the peace and blessing of Allah be uponhim) started journey and was already on his camel. He pleaded: "O Messenger of Allah! we were only joking and trying to pass the time while traveling." Ibn Umar (May Allah be pleased with him) said, "As if I see him that he was clinging to the saddle belt of the Messenger of Allah's camel as it ran and his legs were being battered by the rough ground and even then he continued pleading (i.e. we were only joking)." Allah's Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said, "Was it at Allah (May Allah be pleased with him) and His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) that you were mocking? Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after you had believed". (9:65,66) Neither he (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) looked towards him nor spoke anything further.


    Important issues of the Chapter

    1) It is such a terrible thing that whoever makes fun in these matters is a disbeliever (Kafir).

    2) The explanation given of the verse 9:65, applied to those who commit such an act, whoever they may be.

    3) There is a difference between backbiting and admonition, and loyalty to Allah and His Messenger (May the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him)

    4) The difference between forgiveness which Allah loves and severity in dealing with the enemies of Allah.

    5) Some excuses are unacceptable.
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    Their is no midle , not in Quran , not in Hadith about belief ,their is muslim and nonmuslims.

    The questions where clear and the answers should be clear .

    Person wich dosnt belive what we beleive he can not be muslim , so he is kafir , it is simple as that , the person wich dosnt believe like christians beleive he can not be christian , the person wich is not jew he can not have jew faith is he has hindu faith.


    You are wasting your time with your phylosophy , this is Islam , dosnt have phylosophy in it .
    ITs easy to understand i already explained it , Christains are Kufar because they say 3 and reject Islam

    Jews on the other hand are kufar cause they reject Islam but they dont reject Allah's oneness so they are not Kufar in the sense of rejecting Allah and there is nothing anyone can post to prove it .

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    1) It is such a terrible thing that whoever makes fun in these matters is a disbeliever (Kafir).
    Would you call such a person a kafir or not?

    And the way you're avoiding my questions, it reminds me of PleaseThink and his shia mates on this forum and elsewhere.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by al faqeer View Post
    ITs easy to understand i already explained it , Christains are Kufar because they say 3 and reject Islam

    Jews on the other hand are kufar cause they reject Islam but they dont reject Allah's oneness so they are not Kufar in the sense of rejecting Allah and there is nothing anyone can post to prove it .
    So Iblis would be of the same case
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    I rest my case. Allahu 3alem.

    There is nothing in Qur'an to support your complete and utter hatred and ignorance.

    May Allah (SWT) guide you.

    I'm done posting in this thread now. Read what I've already posted. No need to repeat myself.

    Salaam
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    I rest my case. Allahu 3alem.

    There is nothing in Qur'an to support your complete and utter hatred and ignorance.

    May Allah (SWT) guide you.

    I'm done posting in this thread now. Read what I've already posted. No need to repeat myself.

    Salaam
    You have dishonesty in your attitude. When you're shown the proofs, you refuse to accept them. And you speak that you don't act upon.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    if they hold beliefs that take them out of Islam, then we cant call them Muslim.
    what if their beliefs are out of ignorance?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    what if their beliefs are out of ignorance?
    Kufr is 'ignorance' or do you think it's 'awareness'?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    if they hold beliefs that take them out of Islam, then we cant call them Muslim.
    And they say: "None shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." Nay whoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good he will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear nor shall they grieve. Qur'an 2: 111 and 112

    I dont know how can somebody think these verses were reavealed for nothing. I am a muslim, but I would not be free to call any individual a kaffir, but if you feel so then that is fine, I however dont go against my heart because then I would be a some kind of kaffir

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    what if their beliefs are out of ignorance?
    Sister ignorance is another story, It has its own guideline and extent.
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by al faqeer View Post
    ITs easy to understand i already explained it , Christains are Kufar because they say 3 and reject Islam

    Jews on the other hand are kufar cause they reject Islam but they dont reject Allah's oneness so they are not Kufar in the sense of rejecting Allah and there is nothing anyone can post to prove it .
    what you dont realise is that you cant say "jews" reject islam hence they are kaffir, not all jews 'reject Islam'

    you can have say a jewish girl who grew up in a strict jewish family, she doenst know anything accept judaism, she has not been taught islam, and has been taught Islam is false, she is convinced in her faith, why should she go look elsewhere, is she a kaffir? I dont think so, if she however was shown Islam, if she came to know that it is actually true, but she rejected it out of hate, out of desire, out of pride, whatever reason she went agianst her truth in her heart, them she is a kaffir,

    kaffir means concealing the truth, how can you conceal the truth if you dont know it?

    so while you may say jews as a whole rejected the prophet saws and are kuffar, you cant call a single person a kuffar, and I personally see no point in talking in general terms since that never accurately discribes a person in that group, and Allah can talk in general terms, Allah can talk in specific persons case too, because He knows everything, but we dont

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    So Iblis would be of the same case
    Iblees is not the same because Iblees does not worship Allah and does not glorify Him, whereas a jewish monotheist will

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Kufr is 'ignorance' or do you think it's 'awareness'?
    Kufr means to conceal the truth after it has been made clear to you and you understood it.

    Like I said, your understanding is childish.
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    Iblees is not the same because Iblees does not worship Allah and does not glorify Him, whereas a jewish monotheist will
    Iblis believes that Allah is one it is the same stance as the jews
    islamway
    اللهم ارزقنا حُسن الخاتِمة


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Kufr means to conceal the truth after it has been made clear to you and you understood it.

    Like I said, your understanding is childish.
    Kufr means rejecting the truth, and those who reject the truth live in ignorance, ya fool.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Jaffar View Post
    Iblis believes that Allah is one it is the same stance as the jews
    no Iblees knows Allah is one because Iblees has seen Allah, remember he was in heaven. Iblees is the vilest however, and he sends his army to lead men astray and make them do the worst things out of spite and hatred for those who worship Him, and I dont know of anything that says Iblees prays to Allah or loves Him, correct me if im wrong?

    again, a jewish person who believes in Allah, he actually worships Allah, they recite their praises to Allah, they give their charity, they do their rituals etc whatever they do, obviously they are loving Allah in their way and tryng to worship Him, so how is this man like Iblees who does not glorify Allah and who makes men commit the vilest of deeds

    honestly brother, i dont even care either way, because like I said, I am a muslim so I dont need to worry in the end of the day except for my doing and where I am going to meet my Lord in the day of judgement, but I have no need to wonder where other people are going in hereafter, and i would refrain to say so because only Allah knows

    but these are my beliefs and if you dont think so, then that is absolutely fine, you are entitled to your beliefs

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    no Iblees knows Allah is one because Iblees has seen Allah, remember he was in heaven. Iblees is the vilest however, and he sends his army to lead men astray and make them do the worst things out of spite and hatred for those who worship Him, and I dont know of anything that says Iblees prays to Allah or loves Him, correct me if im wrong?
    Yes, you're wrong because Allah knows what Jews are and he has condemned them in Quran and called them Kafirs, so they are kafirs even if it hurts you.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Yes, you're wrong because Allah knows what Jews are and he has condemned them in Quran and called them Kafirs, so they are kafirs even if it hurts you.
    Astagfirullah,

    Kufr is sometimes used in a positive sense. A good believer can also be a kafir. How so? The Qur'an says [Faman yakfur bil taghut wayu'mim billah] (Whoever rejects (yakfur) taghut (oppression) and believes in Allah) (Al-Baqarah 2:56). Anyone who believes in one thing is a kafir (rejecter) of its opposite.
    Kufr can be used in a neutral or benign sense, as the origin of kufr in the Arabic language means "to cover up." A farmer who puts a seed in the ground and covers it up is performing kufr. Spiritually, deliberate deviation from the true and authentic prophets is a form of "covering-up" the truth.
    The word kufr can also be applied to Muslims who do something wrong, although not necessarily something that would place them outside the state of belief in Islam. For example, a Muslim who is able to go for Hajj but does not go, without denying the need to go, would be committing an act of kufr in a sense of their being ungrateful to Allah (3:96-97).
    Kufr is used in the Qur'an as the opposite of shukr (to be grateful) (Luqman 31:12).
    Kafir is used in the Qur'an, not only to refer to Jews or Christians, but also those who rejected the prophets and denied the existence of God. It has been used to refer to the people of Noah and the people of Abraham. It has also been used to refer to those who denied prophethood and rejected the existence of Allah altogether, which obviously is not the case with Christians and Jews.
    Kafir can also be used in a more serious sense, but with a variety of meanings. It refers to the rejection of Islam. It describes one who knows the truth, but rejects it out of pride or vanity. It describes a person who knows the truth in his or her heart and deliberately rejects it.

    Nonetheless, we cannot clearly assess this situation. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) gave Muslims very clear instructions after one incident when people assumed to know why someone had professed belief in Islam. He asked them whether they had opened up his heart, and if they knew whether what was in his heart was sincere or not. The bottom line is that we have to leave judging people's faith to Allah; only Allah knows the sincerity of a particular person's acceptance. Allah is All-Knowing, and He is the only Judge of all of us.

    From Dr. Jamal Badawi
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    AlayhisSalam, debator is on my ignore list so i dont see his messages and I dont respond to him anymore, but i see you responded to him and it just shows how he cant even understand basic human language, I said Iblees doesnt love Allah or does he? and debator responds with jews are kaffirs LOL

    i do hope debator is being a joke on purpose because Allah knows if he is actually not trying then I have some sincere repentence to do for laughing at an imbecille

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Just ignore Debater, he is only on these forums to try to make Muslims angry and then say "Look at how evil and violent Muslims are, I caught them by pretending to be Muslim and pretending that I know about Islam, and I know more than them about their own religion"

    lol
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Just ignore Debater, he is only on these forums to try to make Muslims angry and then say "Look at how evil and violent Muslims are, I caught them by pretending to be Muslim and pretending that I know about Islam, and I know more than them about their own religion"

    lol
    it is truly pathetic, i would think still, after reading about the warnings for the munafiqoon and the kuffar (with which he seems to be well versed about), he has not taken heed and carries in his hypocritical mission, that my friend is a kaffir, now it all makes sense why he so desperately is trying to smear everyone with that label so he is not alone, lol

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by IDK View Post
    AlayhisSalam, debator is on my ignore list so i dont see his messages and I dont respond to him anymore, but i see you responded to him and it just shows how he cant even understand basic human language, I said Iblees doesnt love Allah or does he? and debator responds with jews are kaffirs LOL

    i do hope debator is being a joke on purpose because Allah knows if he is actually not trying then I have some sincere repentence to do for laughing at an imbecille
    Actually I didn't want to quote everything you spilled out of your rotten head, I only wanted to comment on the jews you cared for.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Astagfirullah,

    Kufr is sometimes used in a positive sense. A good believer can also be a kafir. How so? The Qur'an says [Faman yakfur bil taghut wayu'mim billah] (Whoever rejects (yakfur) taghut (oppression) and believes in Allah) (Al-Baqarah 2:56). Anyone who believes in one thing is a kafir (rejecter) of its opposite...

    From Dr. Jamal Badawi
    Well, I don't know who this Jamal Badawi is, but in the west there are so many agents of kuffar, calling themselves Islamic scholars, who are working in the interest of kuffar creating the 'Western Islam'.

    I don't follow any molvi, not to speak of Munafiq scholars who are paid agents of Yahood and Nasaara.

    I read loads of CLEAR verses in Quran al Karim, that call Jews and Christians kuffar, e.g.

    وَقَالُواْ كُونُواْ هُودًا أَوْ نَصَـرَى تَهْتَدُواْ قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

    2:135 And they say, "Be Jews or Christians, then you will be guided.'' Say (to them O Muhammad ), "Nay, (we follow) only the religion of Ibrahim, Hanif (Islamic Monotheism), and he was not of Al-Mushrikin (those who worshipped others along with Allah.)

    According to the above verse, Jews and Christians are Mushrikeen, that's a fact.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir


    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَـذَا وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ إِن شَاء إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ


    9:28 O ye who believe! Truly the Mushrikeen are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

    According to the above verse, Muslims must know who Mushrikeen are.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir


    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاء مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَجْعَلُواْ لِلّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ سُلْطَانًا مُّبِينًا

    4:144 O ye who believe! Take not for friends Kafireen rather than Mu'mineen: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?

    So Muslims must know who kuffar are, right?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir


    الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ يُقَاتِلُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ يُقَاتِلُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ الطَّاغُوتِ فَقَاتِلُواْ أَوْلِيَاء الشَّيْطَانِ إِنَّ كَيْدَ الشَّيْطَانِ كَانَ ضَعِيفًا


    4:76 Those who believe do qitaal in the cause of Allah, and those who do kufr Fight in the cause of Evil: So kill ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir


    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوَاْ إِن تُطِيعُواْ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ يَرُدُّوكُمْ عَلَى أَعْقَابِكُمْ فَتَنقَلِبُواْ خَاسِرِينَ


    3:149 O ye who believe! If ye obey the Kuffar, they will drive you back on your heels, and ye will turn back (from Faith) to your own loss.

    So DON'T obey the Kuffar, right?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    But KAFIR cannot be proven in this life. Kafir is proven in the next life.
    In essence, you're correct. There is however, two implications to the word kafir: one which pertains to the life of the Hereafter, which you're referring to here, and the other pertains to the life of this world.

    By definition a kafir is a disbeliever in Allah and His religion of Islam, by extension, it's a disbeliever in His prophets, messengers, etc. Only Allah knows who the true disbelievers are who will end up in Hell. In this world, however, the word kafir is the direct opposite of the world Muslim, thus it is synonymous with the word non-Muslim. Now, whether that non-Muslim will die a non-Muslim and remain a kafir, that is only known to Allah. But as Umar bin al-Khattab said, during the time of the Prophet, the revelation was being sent down, so they would judge according to what Allah and His prophet said. After the revelation ended and the Prophet died, since the knowledge of the Unseen belongs to Allah alone, they judged the people according to what was apparent to them using the revealed texts that were left to them as guidance.

    So if a person was not a Muslim or if the person was Muslim but did things to nullify his/her Islam, then they would be judged accordingly and the rulings pertaining to them would be applied (e.g., jizyah--if the kafir was living in an Islamic state under Muslim protection, or execution in the case of apostasy).
    “The entirety of faith is deed” – Imam Muhammad bin Ismâ'îl al-Bukhârî, al-Jâmi' as-Sahîh , Kitâb al-Îmân.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by aboo ishaaq View Post
    In essence, you're correct. There is however, two implications to the word kafir: one which pertains to the life of the Hereafter, which you're referring to here, and the other pertains to the life of this world.

    By definition a kafir is a disbeliever in Allah and His religion of Islam, by extension, it's a disbeliever in His prophets, messengers, etc. Only Allah knows who the true disbelievers are who will end up in Hell. In this world, however, the word kafir is the direct opposite of the world Muslim, thus it is synonymous with the word non-Muslim. Now, whether that non-Muslim will die a non-Muslim and remain a kafir, that is only known to Allah. But as Umar bin al-Khattab said, during the time of the Prophet, the revelation was being sent down, so they would judge according to what Allah and His prophet said. After the revelation ended and the Prophet died, since the knowledge of the Unseen belongs to Allah alone, they judged the people according to what was apparent to them using the revealed texts that were left to them as guidance.

    So if a person was not a Muslim or if the person was Muslim but did things to nullify his/her Islam, then they would be judged accordingly and the rulings pertaining to them would be applied (e.g., jizyah--if the kafir was living in an Islamic state under Muslim protection, or execution in the case of apostasy).
    the following hadith was reported in 6 cases in sahih bukhari and muslim:

    the prophet saws said:

    A man sinned greatly against himself, and when death came to him he told his sons, saying:
    When I have died, burn me, then crush me and scatter [my ashes] into the sea, for, by Allah, if
    my Lord takes possession of me, He will punish me in a manner in which He has punished no
    one [else]. So they did that to him. Then He said to the earth: Produce what you have takenand
    there he was! And He said to him: What induced you to do what you did? He said: Being
    afraid of You, O my Lord (or he said: Being frightened of You) and because of that He forgave
    him.


    you can see from above that the man committed shirk by thinking Allah cannot resurect him, however he did so out of ignorance and because he feared Allah, Allah forgave him.

    brother, all I am saying is that we really dont know, as you can see from the above hadith, we are judged acording to what we know, and we dont know how Allah is going to judge anyone or what is in their hearts

    yes you say Allah has identified kuffar and so can we, but in actual fact there are many hadiths like the above and so are many verses that say whoever does not associate anything with Allah and believes in the Last day has nothing to fear. so to me it seems whoever believes in Allah and believes in meeting Allah (hence he is careful with what he does), has no reason to fear, it does not say he has to also follow all prophets etc, I am not saying that you are wrong or that I am definitely right, all I am saying that there are many reasons as stated above that we cannot freely say who is and who is not a kaffir, so I refrain from saying so or even thinking of that, nothing Allah does will not be disapointing or we are going to think it is not just, because we know He is most Just and most Merciful, so this is why I dont bother thinking about these things, why? is that not infringing upon the right of Allah to be The Judge?

    Allah knows best

 

 

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