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    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    The Fitnah of Takfir

    The Fitnah of Takfir



    The accusation upon Majority of Muslims being Mushrikeen by certain people who think that their own personal set of beliefs are right, is a major strife which has been lurking around in Muslim Ummah. Some even go to the extent of accusing the great Hanafi Muslims as a whole (including the respectable Deobandis and Barelvis) on the other hand they consider Shi’ites as Kafirs without any second thought.


    Let see how the Prophet (Peace be upon him) looked at Shirk in Muslim Ummah as compared to the self assumed Tawhid of certain extremists who show up with different names but mostly they belong to the same La Madhabiyyah sect.





    The way how Prophet (Peace be upon him) looked at it



    أن النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏خرج يوما فصلى على أهل ‏ ‏أحد ‏ ‏صلاته على الميت ثم انصرف إلى المنبر فقال ‏ ‏إني ‏ ‏فرط ‏ ‏لكم وأنا شهيد عليكم وإني والله لأنظر إلى حوضي الآن وإني أعطيت مفاتيح خزائن الأرض ‏ ‏أو مفاتيح الأرض ‏ ‏وإني والله ما أخاف عليكم أن تشركوا بعدي ولكن أخاف عليكم أن تنافسوا فيها ‏



    Translation: Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Amir: One day the Prophet went out and offered the funeral prayers of the martyrs of Uhud and then went up the pulpit and said, "I will pave the way for you as your predecessor and will be a witness on you. By Allah! I see my Fount (Kauthar) just now and I have been given the keys of all the treasures of the earth (or the keys of the earth) ”BY ALLAH! I AM NOT AFRAID THAT YOU WILL WORSHIP OTHERS ALONG WITH ALLAH AFTER MY DEATH, BUT I AM AFRAID THAT YOU WILL FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER FOR THE WORLDLY THINGS”



    ►Volume 2, Book 23, Number 428: (Sahih Bukhari)




    Three Important points are to be noted from this hadith:



    (A) This hadith itself proves that Prophet (Peace be upon him) has been granted “all” the keys to the treasures of the earth, the ironic thing is that this itself is shirk according to the extremists because they believe Prophet was an ordinary man who did not know of future. If you look carefully the hadith says that Prophet was watching his fount right from the earth, this proves the great Basarat (sight) of this mighty Prophet and If these claimants who say Prophet was just an ordinary man like us have any shame in them, then they should prove that they also see Jannah right from the earth.



    (B) The Prophet (Peace be upon him) took an oath upon Allah, yes note again “OATH UPON ALLAH” and said that he is not afraid we will worship others along with Allah after his death, now these extremists are in actual claiming to know more than Prophet (Peace be upon him) who settled it once and for all by taking oath that we will not worship others along with Allah after his passing away.



    (C) The Prophet (Peace be upon him) explained that We will fight with one another for “WORLDLY THINGS” ! So how does this fighting start? It starts by calling other Muslims as Kafir, tell us one Muslim on this earth who would like to be called as Kafir?







    Hadith #2



    باب ‏ ‏قتل ‏ ‏الخوارج ‏ ‏والملحدين ‏ ‏بعد إقامة الحجة عليهم ‏ ‏وقول الله تعالى ‏
    وما كان الله ليضل قوما بعد إذ هداهم حتى يبين لهم ما يتقون ‏‏وكان ‏ ‏ابن عمر ‏ ‏يراهم شرار خلق الله ‏ ‏وقال إنهم انطلقوا إلى آيات نزلت في الكفار فجعلوها على المؤمنين


    Translation: Allah T’ala said: And Allah will not mislead a people after He hath guided them, in order that He may make clear to them what to fear (and avoid)- for Allah hath knowledge of all things. 9:115)



    Bukhari relates from ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar (Allah be well pleased with him) "Ibn `Umar considered the Khawarij and the heretics as the worst beings in creation, and he said: They went to verses which were revealed about the disbelievers and applied them to the Believers.[Sahih Bukhari, Chapter of Killing the Khawarjites and Mulhideen, Volume No. 6, Page No. 2539]



    This hadith is very important and it exposes the evil nature of the extremist sect like a bright sun. You will always see them misusing the Ayahs revealed for Kufaar and applying them upon Muslims, wait a minute “EVEN UPON THE PROPHET” yes I say again even “UPON THE PROPHET” so rest assured that their attribute is that of Khawarij who apparently looked and still look very religious, who recite Quran beautifully, who pray as If our prayers are inferior to theirs but in reality they pass through the religion just like an arrow passes through the target.



    Quran states: O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!.. (4:94)

    What a beautiful ayah, even when we go for Jihad and if someone offers us salutation then we are ordered not to call them disbelievers, but look at the extremists who call even Muslims as disbelievers let alone other.








    Hadith #3


    Narrated Usama bin Zaid: Allah's Apostle sent us towards Al-Huruqa, and in the morning we attacked them and defeated them. I and an Ansari man followed a man from among them and when we took him over, he said, "La ilaha illal-Lah." On hearing that, the Ansari man stopped, but I killed him by stabbing him with my spear. When we returned, the Prophet came to know about that and he said, "O Usama! Did you kill him after he had said "La ilaha ilal-Lah?" I said, "But he said so only to save himself." The Prophet kept on repeating that so often that I wished I had not embraced Islam before that day.

    ►Volume 5, Book 59, Number 568: (Sahih Bukhari)

    Subhan Allah this is an explicit proof that any Muslim who testifies by saying "La Ilaha Il Allah" cannot be declared as Mushrik, do the extremists still claim to know more than Prophet (Peace be upon him), rather Quran itself?





    Hadith #4

    ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أنس بن مالك ‏ ‏قال ‏
    قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏ثلاث من ‏ ‏أصل ‏ ‏الإيمان ‏ ‏الكف ‏ ‏عمن قال لا إله إلا الله ولا نكفره بذنب ولا نخرجه من الإسلام بعمل والجهاد ماض منذ بعثني الله إلى أن يقاتل آخر أمتي ‏ ‏الدجال ‏ ‏لا يبطله ‏ ‏جور ‏ ‏جائر ‏ ‏ولا عدل عادل والإيمان بالأقدار ‏


    Translation: Anas bin Malik (ra) narrates from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) who said: Three things are the roots of faith (1) To refrain from (killing) a person who says “La ILaha IL Allah” (2) Not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits (3) and also not to declare him out of Islam due to any of his deed. Jihad continues from the day I was sent as Prophet to the day that last member of my community fight with the Dajjal. The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine Decree. [Sunnan Abu Dawud, Volume No. 2, Hadith # 2170]







    Hadith #5


    أن حذيفة يعني ابن اليمان رضي الله عنه حدثه قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم «إن مما أتخوف عليكم رجل قرأ القرآن حتى إذا رؤيت بهجته عليه وكان رداؤه الإسلام اعتراه إلى ما شاء الله انسلخ منه ونبذه وراء ظهره وسعى على جاره بالسيف ورماه بالشرك» قال قلت يانبي الله أيهما أولى بالشرك المرمي أو الرامي ؟ قال «بل الرامي»
    إسناد جيد

    Translation: Hudhaifa i.e. Ibn al Yaman (ra) said that the Prophet (saw) said: Verily, I fear about a man from you who will read the Qur'an so much that his face will become enlightened and he will come to personify Islam. This will continue until Allah desires. Then these things will be taken away from him when he will disregard them by putting them all behind his back and will attack his neighbor with the sword accusing him of Shirk. The Prophet was asked - which of the two will be deserving of such an accusation? - The attacker or the attacked? The Prophet replied - the attacker (the one accusing the other of Shirk)



    ►Narrated by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Tahqiq Nasir Albani, Volume 001, Page No. 200, Hadith Number 81] Nasir Albani said: 'this hadith is hasan' also see [Silsilat al-ahadith al-sahihah - Albani Volume 007-A, Page No. 605, Hadith Number 3201] Click Here for Scanned Page (80)

    ►Narrated by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, Volume No. 1, Page No. 282,

    ►Bukhari in his Tarikh ul Kabir, Volume No. 4, Page No. 301,

    ►Haythami in Majma Az Zawaid, where he declared its chain to be “Hassan”, Imam Ibn Kathir declared the Chain as “Jayyid (strong)” in his Tafsir al Quran al Azim, Volume No. 2, Page No. 266]








    Hadith #6

    كنت في حلقة بالكوفة إذا رجل يحدث قال كنا جلوسا مع ابي هريرة فمر فتى فقال رجل من الحلقة هذا كافر من أهل النار فقام أبو هريرة حتى أتى الفتى فقال من انت انا فلان بن فلان رحم الله اباك قال فجعل الفتى يلتفت فقال إلام تلتفت قال لم أصل قال وتصلي فقال سبحان الله فقال وتقول سبحان الله قال لا إله إلا الله قال وتقول لا إله إلا الله فقال ما أريد أني تركت الصلاة وأن لي ما على وجه الأرض قال رحمك الله رحمك الله ثم جاء حتى أخذ مجلسه

    فقال سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول . من شهد على مسلم بشهادة ليس لها بأهل فليتبوأ مقعده من النار


    Translation:"We were sitting in a circle in Kufa with Abu Hurayra whereupon a young man passed by. A man sitting with us said: 'This is a Kafir from among the people of the Fire.' Abu Hurayra rose and went to speak with the young man, asking him: 'Who are you?' He replied: Son of so-and-so.' Abu Hurayra said: 'Allah have mercy on your father!' The young man was looking around, so he asked him: 'What are you looking for?' He replied: 'I have not prayed yet.' Abu Hurayra said: 'So you pray?' The young man replied: 'Subhan Allah!' Abu Hurayra: 'And you say Subhan Allah?' He said: 'La Ilaha illAllah!!' Abu Hurayra: 'And you say La Ilaha illAllah?' The young man said: 'I would prefer not to leave Salat even if I were given all there is on the face of the earth.' Abu Hurayra said: 'Allah have mercy on you. Allah have mercy on you. Allah have mercy on you.' Then he came back to his seat in the circle and said: 'I heard the Messenger of Allah say: "Whoever bears testimony against a Muslim of which the latter is not deserving, let him prepare for himself a seat in the Hell fire." [Imam Ibn Asakir in Tibyan al Kadhib al Muftari, Page No. 373]







    Hadith #7

    عن عبيد الله بن عمر عن نافع أن رجلا قال لإبن عمر أن لي جارا يشهد علي بالشرك فقال قل لا إله إلا الله تكذبه

    Translation: From `Ubayd Allah ibn `Umar, from Nafi`: A man said to Ibn `Umar: "I have a neighbor who bears witness against me that I commit shirk." He replied: "Say: 'La Ilaha ill Allah,' you will make him a liar."[Imam Ibn Asakir in Tibyan al Kadhib al Muftari, Page No. 373]



    Hadith #8


    عكرمة يعني ابن عمار قال ثنا سوار بن شبيب الأعرجي قال كنت قاعدا عند ابن عمر فجاء رجل فقال يا ابن عمر إن أقواما يشهدون علينا بالكفر والشرك فقال ويلك أفلا قلت لا إله إلا الله قال فقال أهل البيت لا إله إلا الله حتى ارتج البيت

    Translation: Akrama i.e. Ibn Ammar said that he heard Sawwar ibn Shabib al-A`raji say that he was sitting in Ibn `Umar's house when a man came and said: "O Ibn `Umar! There are groups of people bearing witness against us and attributing to us kufr and shirk." Ibn `Umar replied: "Woe to you! Did you not say: 'La Ilaha IllAllah'?!" Whereupon the entire household began to say La Ilaha Ill Allah until the house was shaking.[Ibid]

    Hadith #9



    ثنا الأعمش عن أبي سفيان قال أتينا جابر بن عبد الله وكان مجاورا بمكة وكان نازلا في بني فهر فسأله رجل فقال هل كنتم تدعون أحدا من أهل القبلة مشركا قال معاذ الله وفزع لذلك قال هل كنتم أظنه تدعونه كافرا قال لا

    Translation: From al-A`mash, from Abu Sufyan:We came to see Jabir ibn `Abd Allah who lived in Makkah and resided with the Banu Fihr. A man asked him: "Did you [the Companions] use to call anyone from the People of the Qibla [i.e. Muslims], 'Mushrik'?" He replied: "I seek refuge in Allah." The man continued: "Did you call anyone from them 'Kafir'?" He said: "No."[Ibid]

    Muslims should exclaim loudly : "Subhan Allah" and "La Ilaha il Allah" till all of us make a roar, then Alhamdulillah we will make the accusers as liars themselves!


    We would like to conclude our article with these verdicts from Imam Ibn Abideen ash-Shami (rah) and Allama Ahmed Sawi (rah)


    Imam Ibn Abideen ash-Shami (rah)



    قوله : ويكفرون أصحاب نبينا صلى الله عليه وسلم ) علمت

    أن هذا غير شرط في مسمى الخوارج ، بل هو بيان لمن خرجوا على سيدنا علي رضي الله تعالى عنه ، وإلا فيكفي فيهم اعتقادهم كفر من خرجوا عليه ، كما وقع في زماننا في أتباع عبد الوهاب الذين خرجوا من نجد وتغلبوا على الحرمين وكانوا ينتحلون مذهب الحنابلة ، لكنهم اعتقدوا أنهم هم المسلمون وأن من خالف اعتقادهم مشركون ، واستباحوا بذلك قتل أهل السنة وقتل علمائهم حتى كسر الله تعالى شوكتهم وخرب بلادهم وظفر بهم عساكر المسلمين عام ثلاث وثلاثين ومائتين وألف )

    (رد المحتار على الدر المختار (4/ 262) كتاب البغاة)

    Translation: (Ibn ‘Abidin His words and who consider the Companions of our Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) to be disbelievers are not a condition for someone to be a kharijite, but rather are a mere clarification of what those who revolted against ‘Ali (Allah Most High be well pleased with him) in fact did. Otherwise, it is enough to be convinced of the unbelief of those they fight against, as happened in our own times with the followers of [Muhammad ibn] ‘Abd al-Wahhab, who came out of the Najd in revolt, and took over the sanctuaries of Mecca and Medina. They followed the Hanbali madhhab, but believed that they were the Muslims, and that those who believed differently than they did were polytheists (mushrikin). On this basis, they held it lawful to kill Sunni Muslims (Ahl al-Sunna) and their religious scholars, until Allah Most High dispelled their forces, and the armies of the Muslims attacked their strongholds and subdued them in 1233 A.H. [1818] [Ibn Abideen – Rahimuhullah in Radd ul Mukhtar ala Dur al Mukhtar, Volume No.4, Page No. 262]





    Imam Ahmed al Sawi (Rahimuhullah)



    Imam Ahmed al Sawi (Rahimuhullah) in his magnificent commentary over Tafsir al Jalalyn by Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti (rah) explains this verse : Truly, the Devil is an enemy to you, so take him as an enemy: he only calls his party to become of the inhabitants of the blaze" (Qur’an 35:6) as:


    وقيل هذه الآية نزلت في الخوارج الذين يحرفون تأويل الكتاب والسنة ويستحلون بذلك دماء المسلمين وأموالهم كما هو مشاهد الآن في نظائرهم، وهم فرقة بأرض الحجاز يقال لهم الوهابية يحسبون أنهم على شىء ألا انهم هم الكاذبون، استحوذ عليهم الشيطان فأنساهم ذكر الله أولئك حزب الشيطان ألا إن حزب الشيطان هم الخاسرون، نسأل الله الكريم أن يقطع دابرهم

    Translation: It is said this verse was revealed about the Kharijites [foretelling their appearance], who altered the interpretation of the Qur’an and Sunnah, on the strength of which they declared it lawful to kill and take the property of Muslims—as may now be seen in their modern counterparts; namely, a sect in the Hijaz called "Wahabiya, (فرقة بأرض الحجاز يقال لهم الوهابية)" who "think they are on something, truly they are the liars (Kadhibeen). Satan has gained mastery over them and made them forget Allah’s remembrance. Those are Satan’s party, truly Satan’s party, they are the losers" (Qur’an 58:18–19). We ask Allah Most Generous to extirpate them completely [Hashiya al-Sawi ‘ala al-Jalalayn, 3.255]

    Note: This Tafsir was tried to be forged and the sentence which mentions Wahabiyyah was removed by the same sect in order to fool people, but they were unsuccessful in it.

    Original article: http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php...=82&Itemid=145
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    slave mujhadia's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    very insightful post brother, May Allah swt reward you, Ameen.
    glass half empty

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    On ne passe pas' mgilani's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Good luck!
    46 & 2?

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    Your Brother in Deen Dhulkarnein's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Assalam alaikum


    We are used to see people doing coment from hadith ect ,with the desire , and they take some hadiths wich need to make coment on them ,soo they make coment with their desire just too put people astray , too put muslim away from the simple and corect belief wich Allah orders us in Quran and throught His Profet alajhi salm


    Ali Imran (3) Verse 44

    "This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge) which We inspire you with (O Muhammad r). You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed."


    Allah in this aya informs Profet alajhi salam and us too , that he alajhi salam didnt now what happent before him alajhi salam , This mean he didnt know the gajb (secret, unseen things)

    Ali Imran (3) Verse 179

    "Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He distinguishes the wicked from the good. Nor will Allah disclose to you the secrets of the Ghaib (unseen), but Allah chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. So believe in Allah and His Messengers. And if you believe and fear Allah, then for you there is a great reward."

    In this aya Allah informed us that Allah will not revel the gajb to every people .(He reveled some of the gajb to His Profets alajhimu salam)



    Al Maidah (5) Verse 109

    "On the Day when Allah will gather the Messengers together and say to them: "What was the response you received (from men to your teaching)? They will say: "We have no knowledge, verily, only You are the AllKnower of all that is hidden (or unseen, etc.)."


    In this aya Allah inform us that in the day of jugdment the Profets alajhimu salam will say we dont know what they (their followers) did after we died , this tells us clear that they didnt know the future -what will they doo after they die etc .

    Al An'am (6) Verse 50] , Al An'am (6) Verse 59

    "Say (O Muhammad r): "I dont tell you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the unseen; nor I tell you that I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me by inspiration." Say: "Are the blind and the one who sees equal? will you not then take thought?"


    "And with Him are the keys of the Ghaib (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in (or on) the earth and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but he knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record."


    In this two aya Allah orders the Profet Muhammad alajhi salam to say that he dosnt have the treasures of Allah in his hand and Allah orders him alajhi salam too say that he dosnt know the gajb (unseen things, the future ) , and that Profet alajhi salam just followes the orders from Allah , and that only Allah has the treasures in His hands and that only He knows the unseen ,the future .

    Al A'raf (7) Verse 187

    "They ask you about the Hour (Day of Resurrection): "When will be its appointed time?" Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (Alone). None can reveal its time but He. Heavy is its burden through the heavens and the earth. It shall not come upon you except all of a sudden." They ask you as if you have a good knowledge of it. Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (Alone) but most of mankind know not."


    Allah inform us that only Allah knows the day of Resurrection , and nobody else dosnt know , not even the Profet alajhi salam , not even the Angels

    Al A'raf (7) Verse 188

    "Say (O Muhammad r): "I possess no power of benefit or hurt to myself except as Allah wills. If I had the knowledge of the Ghaib (unseen), I should have secured for myself an abundance of wealth, and no evil should have touched me. I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings unto people who believe."

    In this aya Allah orders Profet alajhi salam too say that Profet alajhi salam dont have any power too take what he whants from good things and too remove the bad things in the world ,and that he dosnt know the future , and it is soo clear the aya - if he alajhi salam would of known the future he alajhi salam would collect all the good things and would leave all the bad things wich could happend in future ,but as he alajhi salam says , he alajhi salam dosnt know what will happend in future


    Yunus (10) Verse 20

    "And they say: "How is it that not a sign is sent down on him from his Lord?" Say: "The unseen belongs to Allah Alone, so wait you, verily I am with you among those who wait (for Allahs Judgement)."


    Only Allah knows the unseen , the future .

    [COLOR="Blue"]Huud (11) Verse 31 , Huud (11) Verse 123

    "And I do not say to you that with me are the Treasures of Allah, "Nor that I know the Ghaib (unseen); "nor do I say I am an angel, and I do not say of those whom your eyes look down upon that Allah will not bestow any good on them. Allah knows what is in their inner-selves (as regards belief, etc.). In that case, I should, indeed be one of the Zalimoon (wrong-doers, oppressors, etc.)."


    "And to Allah belongs the Ghaib (unseen) of the heavens and the earth, and to Him return all affairs (for decision). So worship Him (O Muhammad r) and put your trust in Him. And your Lord is not unaware of what you (people) do."

    Again Allah orders the Profet alajhi salam to say that i dont have the treasures of Allah in my hand and that i dont know the unseen,future . Only Allah knows the unseen and the future .


    An Naml (27) Verse 65

    "Say: "None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected."

    Only Allah knows the unseen ,future , but Allah has reveled some of the things from the future to the Profet alajhi salam , as Profet alajhi salam said , i doo what Allah orders me and revel me

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Second issue :

    As for the hadith that muslim will no doo shirk and that they will not go away from islam , again the hadith it has been coment with the desire of the sect like sufii , they whant too find any kind of argument to justifie their vain belief and action wich has nothing to do with islam

    We have one person wich was sahaba and he become kafir , we have in the time of Abu Bakar people that become murted ( gone out of islam ) -they become kufar , soo hadith dosnt mean that no one will not doo big shirk , or small shirk .

    Hadith speak about people that will follow the Quran and Sunna , as Profet alajhi salam said , " hold to Quran and Sunna and you will not be lost ", and hadith dosnt speak about sects that follow their vain belief .

    From hadith we see that muslim can be lost , but if they follow the Quran and Sunna they will not be lost

    As for khawarij , they do takfir when people doo small sin , like driking alchol , zina etc

    But when people doo big shirk and big kufer than there is no islam there and this sin takes out of islam the person that does that .

    The small shirk and small kufer dosnt take muslim out of islam , but the small shirk and small kufer is biger sin then zina, riba etc .

    The takfir is part of islam , it is obligated to make takfir on people wich doo clear shirk and kufer , like mushriks,christains,jew etc , without the takfir their is no line of border in islam , the takifr is the line of border in Islam

    But in some cases when it is not clear ,than we must ask the schoolar about that and we are not alowed to make takfir without clear knowlegde.
    Last edited by Dhulkarnein; 01-03-10 at 12:53 AM.
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

    Jazakallah khayr dhulkarnein for your comment and different view.

    I understand your perspective, but I don't believe that these hadith which were quoted originally are saying that Muhammad(saws) has knowledge of Ghaib.

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 568: (Sahih Bukhari)
    Narrated Usama bin Zaid: Allah's Apostle sent us towards Al-Huruqa, and in the morning we attacked them and defeated them. I and an Ansari man followed a man from among them and when we took him over, he said, "La ilaha illal-Lah." On hearing that, the Ansari man stopped, but I killed him by stabbing him with my spear. When we returned, the Prophet came to know about that and he said, "O Usama! Did you kill him after he had said "La ilaha ilal-Lah?" I said, "But he said so only to save himself." The Prophet kept on repeating that so often that I wished I had not embraced Islam before that day.

    If someone says "La ilaha illallah" then they should be treated as a Muslim. Obviously if someone is doing clear acts of shirk and bida'a, we should warn them against doing such, and quote Qur'an and Hadith in a peaceful manner, but we should never insult them and say "Kafr!" to them because that will only make matters worst, and is also warned against in both Qur'an and Ahadith.

    We must understand that there are two dimensions to Hikmah. Firstly, there is the Hikmah of knowledge - Hikmah Ilmiyyah. And secondly, there is the Hikmah of Action - Hikmah Amaliyyah.

    Some people may have Hikmah of knowledge. But we see that when they try correcting others, advising them, they lack the Hikmah of Action. This causes many a common folk to reject the Hikmah of knowledge.

    To illustrate this hikmah of knowledge without Hikmah of action, a brother once completed the Salah in a local Masjid and then proceeded to shake hands with the people on his right and left. The brother to his immediate right slapped his hand and snapped, "That is not part of the Sunnah!" The man replied most correctly, "Oh, is disrespect and insult part of the Sunnah?"

    never trade in kind words for harshness, especially when dealing with other Muslims.

    Look at the power of a sincere and polite word:
    Mus'ab ibn Umayr was the first of ambassador of Rasul Allah in Madinah. Before Rasul Allah had arrived in Madinah, Mus'ab taught ahl al-Madinah about Islam and they began to enter the Deen.

    This enraged Sa'd ibn 'Ubaadah, one of the chieftains of Madinah. He sheathed his sword and set off for the head of Mus'ab ibn 'Umayr. When he confronted Mus'ab he threatened, "Stop this nonsense you speak or you shall find yourself dead!"

    Mus'ab replied in the way that should be a lesson for us all. This man before him did not stop at rudeness and ignorance, he wanted to slit his throat.

    Mus'ab said, "Shall you not sit and listen for a few moments. If you agree with what I say then take it, and if not, we shall desist from this talk." Sa'd sat down.

    Mus'ab spoke about Allah and His messenger until the face of Sa'd ibn Ubaadah's face shone like a full moon and he said, "What should a person do who wishes to enter into this Deen?" After Mus'ab had told him he said, "There is a man, if he accepts this Deen, there shall be no home in Madinah that will not become Muslim. Sa'd ibn Mu'aadh."

    When Sa'd ibn Mu'aadh heard what was happening, he was infuriated. He left his home to go and kill this man called Mus'ab ibn Umayr for the dissention he had caused. He entered upon Mus'ab and announced, "You shall desist of this religion you speak of or you shall find yourself dead!"

    Mus'ab replied, "Shall you not sit and listen for a few moments. If you agree with what I say then take it, and if not, I shall desist from this talk." Sa'd sat.

    Mus'ab spoke about Allah and His messenger until the face of Sa'd ibn Mu'aadh's face shone like a full moon and he said, "What should a person do who wishes to enter into this Deen?"

    Look at what a kind word did. Sa'd ibn Mu'aadh went home to his Madinan tribe that night and announced to them all, "Everything of yours is Haram upon me until you all enter into Islam."

    That night, every home in Madinah went to bed with Laa ilaaha illa Allah...all because of a kind word.


    Subhanallah akhi

    A Bedouin came to Rasul Allah and told him, "Give me from what Allah gave you, not from the wealth of your mother nor from the wealth of your father." The Sahaabah were furious at the man and step forward to discipline him for what he said. Rasul Allah commanded everyone to leave him.

    Then by the hand, Rasul Allah took him home, opened his door and said, "Take what you wish and leave what you wish." The man did so and after he completed, Rasul Allah asked him, "Have I honored you?" "Yes, by Allah," said the Bedouin. "Ash hadu an laa ilaaha illa Allah, wa ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasul Allah." (Meaning he embraced Islam)

    When the Sahabah heard of how the man changed, Rasul Allah taught them. "Verily the example of myself, you and this Bedouin is that of a man who had his camel run away. The townspeople tried capturing the camel for him by running and shouting after the camel, only driving it further away. The man would shout, 'Leave me and my camel, I know my camel better.' Then he took some grass in his hand, ruffled it in front of the camel, until it came willingly.

    'By Allah, had I left you to this Bedouin, you would have hit him, hurt him, he would have left without Islam and eventually have entered hellfire."


    Please refer to this thread for more info: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ould-be-BE-ONE!

    Inshallah this makes more sense now... I'm not saying that people who are threatening Islamic knowledge should be ignored, no, but no one should ever call another person a Kafir. That (declaring someone a kafir) is only for Allah (SWT) to decide.

    Allahu 3alem,

    Asalaamu alaikum,
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    you wrote about dawa -calling people to islam , and from the dawa rules is too be kind and to call with wisdom

    But it is not alowed to say like this " we dont know if christians ,jew,mushriks ect are nonbelievers " , this is wrong too say , because Allah and His Profet alajhi salam called them nonbelievers , and it is from the bases of islam to call them kufars , and the one that dosnt call them kufar he makes kufer , all schoolar agree that if one muslims dosnt make takfir on jew,christians,mushriks -he becomes kafir too , because he makes them a same as muslim , he makes their belief same as muslim.

    But when we speak with nonmuslim , we dont scream at them and say to them you are kufar ect , we inform them what Allah says, and what Profet alajhi salam says , we inform them what they have to belief , and if they beleif they are our brothers ,if not-then they are still nonbelievers .
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu Dhulkarnein,

    Jazakallah khayr once again for your response, I appreciate this dialogue between us, and may Allah (SWT) reveal the truth to all of us, Ameen.

    Inshallah akhi would you please read this article http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1209357934588




    The question was asked "Why does the Qur'an refer to Jews and Christians as kuffar or infidels? What kind of respect and tolerance is that?"

    And it was answered by Dr. Jamal Badawi of IslamOnline.net





    Here is a big mistake with translation, one that is sometimes committed by Muslims, too. If you look at the English dictionary meaning of infidel, you would find that it means someone who does not have a faith or does not believe in Allah. Does the Qur'an say that the Jews and Christians do not believe in Allah? No. In Surat Al-`Ankabut (29:46), Allah says that the God of Christians, Jews, and Muslims is one and the same. The word infidel is an inaccurate translation of the word kafir in this case.

    The term kafir, referring to a person, or kufr, referring to an act, is used in the Qur'an in a variety of contextual meanings. This is why I hesitate to use even the terms non-believer or disbeliever for the translation, as is it is not clear from these English terms what is the object of unbelief or disbelief, it is God, a particular prophet, or others?

    I would prefer to use the term non-Muslim, as it applies to various categories of kufr, whether it refers to knowingly rejecting the message of Islam (disbelief) or being a non-Muslim due to the lack of awareness of the authentic message of Islam (unbelief). Following are examples of the varied contextual uses of the term kufr in the Qur'an as follows:

    • Kufr is sometimes used in a positive sense. A good believer can also be a kafir. How so? The Qur'an says [Faman yakfur bil taghut wayu'mim billah] (Whoever rejects (yakfur) taghut (oppression) and believes in Allah) (Al-Baqarah 2:56). Anyone who believes in one thing is a kafir (rejecter) of its opposite.
    • Kufr can be used in a neutral or benign sense, as the origin of kufr in the Arabic language means "to cover up." A farmer who puts a seed in the ground and covers it up is performing kufr. Spiritually, deliberate deviation from the true and authentic prophets is a form of "covering-up" the truth.
    • The word kufr can also be applied to Muslims who do something wrong, although not necessarily something that would place them outside the state of belief in Islam. For example, a Muslim who is able to go for Hajj but does not go, without denying the need to go, would be committing an act of kufr in a sense of their being ungrateful to Allah (3:96-97).
    • Kufr is used in the Qur'an as the opposite of shukr (to be grateful) (Luqman 31:12).
    • Kafir is used in the Qur'an, not only to refer to Jews or Christians, but also those who rejected the prophets and denied the existence of God. It has been used to refer to the people of Noah and the people of Abraham. It has also been used to refer to those who denied prophethood and rejected the existence of Allah altogether, which obviously is not the case with Christians and Jews.
    • Kafir can also be used in a more serious sense, but with a variety of meanings. It refers to the rejection of Islam. It describes one who knows the truth, but rejects it out of pride or vanity. It describes a person who knows the truth in his or her heart and deliberately rejects it.

  8. Nonetheless, we cannot clearly assess this situation. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) gave Muslims very clear instructions after one incident when people assumed to know why someone had professed belief in Islam. He asked them whether they had opened up his heart, and if they knew whether what was in his heart was sincere or not. The bottom line is that we have to leave judging people's faith to Allah; only Allah knows the sincerity of a particular person's acceptance. Allah is All-Knowing, and He is the only Judge of all of us.


    And Allah ta'ala knows best.

    Wasalaam akhi
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O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    you wrote about dawa -calling people to islam , and from the dawa rules is too be kind and to call with wisdom

    But it is not alowed to say like this " we dont know if christians ,jew,mushriks ect are nonbelievers " , this is wrong too say , because Allah and His Profet alajhi salam called them nonbelievers , and it is from the bases of islam to call them kufars , and the one that dosnt call them kufar he makes kufer , all schoolar agree that if one muslims dosnt make takfir on jew,christians,mushriks -he becomes kafir too , because he makes them a same as muslim , he makes their belief same as muslim.

    But when we speak with nonmuslim , we dont scream at them and say to them you are kufar ect , we inform them what Allah says, and what Profet alajhi salam says , we inform them what they have to belief , and if they beleif they are our brothers ,if not-then they are still nonbelievers .
    Quran didn't call all Christians, Jews and polytheists Kufar. Rather Kufar is a person whom the proof has come to and denies out hate towards the truth and attachment to dunya, covers what he knows.

    However, when people show eminity towards the light and the truth and becoming fanatic against it and fight to extinguish it, this exposes their Kufr. However, you can't say ever non Muslim is a Kaffer.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Authu bilahi minaysh shaytani rajeem, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseThink View Post
    Quran didn't call all Christians, Jews and polytheists Kufar. Rather Kufar is a person whom the proof has come to and denies out hate towards the truth and attachment to dunya, covers what he knows.

    However, when people show eminity towards the light and the truth and becoming fanatic against it and fight to extinguish it, this exposes their Kufr. However, you can't say ever non Muslim is a Kaffer.
    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

    Jazakallah khayr for your comment, mashallah.

    To reiterate what the scholar has said: The bottom line is that we have to leave judging people's faith to Allah; only Allah knows the sincerity of a particular person's acceptance. Allah is All-Knowing, and He is the only Judge of all of us.

    This is very important, because as we know by Allah (swt)'s 99 names He has told us about, only Allah (swt) possesses those names. And one of Allah (swt)'s names is Al-Hakam (The Judge), and we must never say that we are Al-Hakam, astagfirullah. Only Allah (SWT) is Al-Hakam (The Judge), and by that, Allah (SWT) knows best what is in a person's heart, because Allah (SWT) also is Al-Basir (The Seer Of All), meaning He has knowledge of everything including the Ghayb (Unseen). People's hearts are Ghayb to us, but clear to Al-Basir, and true faith and piety is known to Al-Basir but is not known to us. We can only guess and follow conjecture when we attempt to judge a person, this is why Muhammad(saws) said according to Hadith: "Whoever bears testimony against a Muslim of which the latter is not deserving, let him prepare for himself a seat in the Hell fire."

    And please recognize the wisdom in these ahadith inshallah:

    عن عبيد الله بن عمر عن نافع أن رجلا قال لإبن عمر أن لي جارا يشهد علي بالشرك فقال قل لا إله إلا الله تكذبه

    Translation: From `Ubayd Allah ibn `Umar, from Nafi`: A man said to Ibn `Umar: "I have a neighbor who bears witness against me that I commit shirk." He replied: "Say: 'La Ilaha ill Allah,' you will make him a liar."[Imam Ibn Asakir in Tibyan al Kadhib al Muftari, Page No. 373]


    ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أنس بن مالك ‏ ‏قال ‏
    قال رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏ثلاث من ‏ ‏أصل ‏ ‏الإيمان ‏ ‏الكف ‏ ‏عمن قال لا إله إلا الله ولا نكفره بذنب ولا نخرجه من الإسلام بعمل والجهاد ماض منذ بعثني الله إلى أن يقاتل آخر أمتي ‏ ‏الدجال ‏ ‏لا يبطله ‏ ‏جور ‏ ‏جائر ‏ ‏ولا عدل عادل والإيمان بالأقدار ‏


    Translation: Anas bin Malik (ra) narrates from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) who said: Three things are the roots of faith (1) To refrain from (killing) a person who says “La ILaha IL Allah” (2) Not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits (3) and also not to declare him out of Islam due to any of his deed. Jihad continues from the day I was sent as Prophet to the day that last member of my community fight with the Dajjal. The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine Decree. [Sunnan Abu Dawud, Volume No. 2, Hadith # 2170]


    Astagfirullah for any wrong I have said.

    Allahu 3alem, Allah (SWT) Knows best. Ameen.

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    The saying of La ilaha il-lallah has his conditon , it is not just a word, and if the conditon are fullfilld than the word is compled

    If one person goes against that word , if he does big shirk , like praying to dead people ect , than his saying La ilahe il-lallah is not exepted , because he goes against that word , he makes shirk wich is a act of mushriks .

    word La ilaha il-lallah means to worship only Allah and not people , worshiping people is big shirk and that person is not a muslim , even if he says shahada .
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Alaikom Asalaam Wa rahmatallah wa barakatu

    May God bless those trying to establish peace and love between people and May God reward you efforts at extinguishing this Fitna of Takfeer with lights in your soul and Barzakh.

    wa salam

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    The saying of La ilaha il-lallah has his conditon , it is not just a word, and if the conditon are fullfilld than the word is compled

    If one person goes against that word , if he does big shirk , like praying to dead people ect , than his saying La ilahe il-lallah is not exepted , because he goes against that word , he makes shirk wich is a act of mushriks .

    word La ilaha il-lallah means to worship only Allah and not people , worshiping people is big shirk and that person is not a muslim , even if he says shahada .
    Salam

    Every Sin is against that word. If you think about, you accepting God's greatness would mean in full truthfulness you should not sin. People confused if they allowed to do something or not or an act that contradicts an implication that comes out of faith in God's Unity, doesn't expell one from faith.

    The other issue is that Worship is a degree of reverence and importance you give. Bravelies don't give more importance/reverence to their Saints than what all Muslims give to Nabi Mohammad (saw), so how can what they do at graves or seeking their intercession, be worship, when Muslims revere and heighten and give more importance to Mohammad (saw) then they do to their Saints? If they are Worshipping them, then all Muslims are worshipping Mohammad (saw).

    Stop with the hate and fitna bro, you will be responsible for spreading this fasad in the earth on yamal qiyama.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseThink View Post
    Quran didn't call all Christians, Jews and polytheists Kufar. Rather Kufar is a person whom the proof has come to and denies out hate towards the truth and attachment to dunya, covers what he knows.

    However, when people show eminity towards the light and the truth and becoming fanatic against it and fight to extinguish it, this exposes their Kufr. However, you can't say ever non Muslim is a Kaffer.
    If one person dosnt believe what we muslim believ , what is he , is he muslim or what ?

    And their is no midle , he must be or muslim or nonmuslim .

    The one wich is not muslim is kafir .

    Do you know the word muslim what it means , and to you know what word Islam means ?
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    And their is no midle ,
    What are the Mustafeen in Quran that God says he may forgive them and he is forgiving?

    There is others classifications then Mustafeen in the middle of neither this and that, but I just gave one example.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post

    Do you know the word muslim what it means , and to you know what word Islam means ?
    Submitter/at peace, Submission/peace.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseThink View Post
    What are the Mustafeen in Quran that God says he may forgive them and he is forgiving?

    There is others classifications then Mustafeen in the middle of neither this and that, but I just gave one example.
    Their is no midle , not in Quran , not in Hadith about belief ,their is muslim and nonmuslims.

    The questions where clear and the answers should be clear .

    Person wich dosnt belive what we beleive he can not be muslim , so he is kafir , it is simple as that , the person wich dosnt believe like christians beleive he can not be christian , the person wich is not jew he can not have jew faith is he has hindu faith.


    You are wasting your time with your phylosophy , this is Islam , dosnt have phylosophy in it .
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    If one person dosnt believe what we muslim believ , what is he , is he muslim or what ?

    And their is no midle , he must be or muslim or nonmuslim .

    The one wich is not muslim is kafir .

    Do you know the word muslim what it means , and to you know what word Islam means ?
    Adam(as) and Ibrahim(as) were Muslims before Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad(saws), the basic requirement of faith is "La ilaha ilallah".

    Here is the most important thing to keep in mind.... Tomorrow you could say "I believe in two gods" and an atheist could say "I believe in Allah". You do not know what will happen tomorrow, so if you call someone a disbeliever, then you are assuming to have knowledge that only Allah (SWT) has. You do not know what will become of that person in the future, you do not know what is in their hearts now, and you do not know the extent of Allah (SWT)'s Mercy as Ar-Raheem, The Most Merciful. We do not know what happens exactly upon death, time could 'stop' for them and the person could be given the opportunity by Allah (SWT) to repent and accept Allah (SWT), for example. We really do not have this knowledge which belongs only to Allah (SWT). Did Allah (SWT) call anyone a Kafir in the Qur'an and say that they will goto hell and we can call them kafir safely?

    Be cautious akhi, do not be a judge.
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseThink View Post
    Submitter/at peace, Submission/peace.
    Submiter is for the word Muslim , it mean Submiter to Allah and not to the peace , but Submiter to Allah only

    Islam mean this :

    Word Islam comes from two word's Taslim (Surender) and Salam (Peace)

    From this word, Taslim and Salam we understand what is Islam

    1.Surender-Surender to Allah without any conditions, without hesitation, but a total surender, from the word Taslim was word Islam

    2.submission-submission should be done in obedience to Allah and not in vain , but with heart and convinced

    3.sincerity-surendering and obedience should be done with sincerity to Allah, we should doo with sincerity and not for reasons of world

    4.Implementation-implementation or practice with our deed's to prove our surender,obedience and sincerity to Allah, our conviction and sincerity should be practiced

    5.Surendering and Obedience with free will to Allah, submission io peace, implementing all those 4 points up in peace with Allah, without any violence from someone or something, applies to all point's with free will and being satisfied with thos action

    So this is Islam,Surender, Obedeince to Allah in peace(with free will)
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

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    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    4.Implementation-implementation or practice with our deed's to prove our surender,obedience and sincerity to Allah, our conviction and sincerity should be practiced
    Akhi, by this definition, which I agree with: the 5 definitions which make up the word Islam, I agree entirely...

    But by this definition "Implementation", don't you think those people who take part in Takfir are not implementing Islamic practice and faith?

    Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us judging other people; Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us calling people disbelievers; Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us being harsh; Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us speaking in a way that will distract people from the truth (ie: if you call someone a disbeliever, kafir, etc, they are not going to like you, and therefore they are not going to want to become a Muslim); etc....

    Did Muhammad(saws) or any of the scholars and Imams who were responsible for the conversions of millions of people call them Kafir? "Hey you're a kafir, come listen to what I have to say" lol astagfirullah

    They spoke words of kindness and treated them gently. The only harshness from them was that which was ordained by Allah (SWT) and that is when someone is a clear enemy to you, when they threaten your life and the life of innocent people.



    Look brother, please, don't just listen to what I'm telling you, but please inshallah listen to Rasoolallah (saws), okay? Please, read this Hadith inshallah, look at how Rasoolallah(saws) handled a non-Muslim:

    A Bedouin came to Rasul Allah and told him, "Give me from what Allah gave you, not from the wealth of your mother nor from the wealth of your father." The Sahaabah were furious at the man and step forward to discipline him for what he said. Rasul Allah commanded everyone to leave him.

    Then by the hand, Rasul Allah took him home, opened his door and said, "Take what you wish and leave what you wish." The man did so and after he completed, Rasul Allah asked him, "Have I honored you?" "Yes, by Allah," said the Bedouin. "Ash hadu an laa ilaaha illa Allah, wa ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasul Allah." (Meaning he embraced Islam)

    When the Sahabah heard of how the man changed, Rasul Allah taught them. "Verily the example of myself, you and this Bedouin is that of a man who had his camel run away. The townspeople tried capturing the camel for him by running and shouting after the camel, only driving it further away. The man would shout, 'Leave me and my camel, I know my camel better.' Then he took some grass in his hand, ruffled it in front of the camel, until it came willingly.

    'By Allah, had I left you to this Bedouin, you would have hit him, hurt him, he would have left without Islam and eventually have entered hellfire."


    Subhanallah akhi, this Hadith speaks in favor of everything I have said, please inshallah correct me if I am wrong, but Muhammad(saws) has said himself to the Sahabah that if they treated the non-Muslim harshly by hitting him, hurting him, insulting him, then the non-Muslim would have never entered Islam! Imagine if you were responsible for someone hating Islam! Astagfirullah! Look at what acts of terrorists have done to the image of Islam, causing all sorts of hatred and misunderstanding! Astagfirullah! This is serious akhi, please inshallah see the error in your thinking. This is not a debate about who is right and who is wrong, astagfirullah, I hate to say that you're wrong but this is very serious and we cannot let our pride and our Nafs (egos) get in the way of the truth... Look at the Ahadith, look at the Qur'an akhi.... please tell me where either Allah (swt) or Rasoolallah(saws) have allowed you to call someone a kafir or to insult anyone in any way, whether by Takfir or any other manner.

    Jazakallah khayr, Asaalamu alaikum,
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
    Submiter is for the word Muslim , it mean Submiter to Allah and not to the peace , but Submiter to Allah only

    Islam mean this :

    Word Islam comes from two word's Taslim (Surender) and Salam (Peace)

    From this word, Taslim and Salam we understand what is Islam

    1.Surender-Surender to Allah without any conditions, without hesitation, but a total surender, from the word Taslim was word Islam

    2.submission-submission should be done in obedience to Allah and not in vain , but with heart and convinced

    3.sincerity-surendering and obedience should be done with sincerity to Allah, we should doo with sincerity and not for reasons of world

    4.Implementation-implementation or practice with our deed's to prove our surender,obedience and sincerity to Allah, our conviction and sincerity should be practiced

    5.Surendering and Obedience with free will to Allah, submission io peace, implementing all those 4 points up in peace with Allah, without any violence from someone or something, applies to all point's with free will and being satisfied with thos action

    So this is Islam,Surender, Obedeince to Allah in peace(with free will)

    Everyone has light forces and dark forces.

    Satan wants to overcome the human and destroy the blessed book and treasure he was originated on and stray away from blessed orientiation he was originally on.

    But the condition of what a submitter and kaffer is, is that the latter rejects the truth when shown to them and is in a state of opposition. The Submitful humans on the other hand, when they become convinced of the truth, will submit to the truth.

    Now one of the traits of those whom cover the truth is they have pride and lack virtues. One of the traits of deniers of Yamal Qiyama, those whom cover that, when it's proven to them, is that they don't care about orphans or the poor. This can be seen in one blessed Surah showing the wretched state of these people. They don't want justice to reign and orphans to cared for and poor to be enriched. We see some people are like this as well today, they care less of the state of third world countries and are quite sastified with the oppressive system in place of the world adn even support it.

    Those verses show those whom love justice and goodness, if you can show them the truth, they would submit to it, because their hearts are inclining towards goodness.

    Islam that you present, yes maybe someone will not accept it. I can't accept your Islam, I find it dry, dogmatic, and ugly. But you can't judge a person if he rejects what you present.

    The way the Prophets (as) present the truth, teach what the human is, where he is heading to, the hidden world and the day the truth of reality will manifest and shine, is taught in majestic noble way, in beautiful way, and in reality, this knowledge of the human Soul, and the book, is lost in the masses today.

    There are some people when reminded of Spiritual Reality and the Light, and the beautiful names, hate it, and hate the truth and want to deny the Glory and Light, so to be sastified in low states and stations, out of love of self, if that hate leads to them of ignoring evidence and not become submissive to it, they are disbelievers.

    Warning of hell is emphasized so people think again about denying what has become clear to them, undoubtably if a person is stubborn to the truth and fights it's people after it's shown to them, they are condemn harshly. It's these people that you read of their ugly traits and were labelled Kuffar in Quran.

    There is people with these traits today, but you shouldn't generalize it on everyone.

    A lot of people if you can convince them with bright proofs, intuitive reminders, tell them kindly with a kind word of the Unseen Name of his Lord he is being called to, and in there lies the peace and tranquility he seeks, the beauty and honor longed for, then he will awaken.

    If you make it harsh, and present nothing but dogmas, and present this empty rituals and rules form of religion that is devoid of the spirit of love and attraction to pure elect high beautiful souls, not everyone is going to accept it, nor are they are Kuffar and haters of the Deenal Haq if they don't.

    Indeed some people when presented the Deenal Haq hate it, and this includes people called Muslims. Some people go against clear Tawheed they know of and cover the truth of Tawheed even if they know they are wrong, and they are the foremost people calling others Kuffar when they have the foremost trait of it.


    People whom didn't find a way to reject or accept the truth because the proof was hidden from them, they were excused according to Quran, and God said he may forgive them.

    Today the beautiful religion has many faces. People are confused as to what the book really teaches with all sorts of bad interpretations that are ugly attributions to God.

    We all have to work to revive the beautiful religion that mankind will one day all come to and love, the religion that only people whom wish to be animals and take honor in that, rather then humans and take honor in our Spiritual origin and beautiful book of treasures we originated on will reject.


    I'm not convinced most Christians are Kuffar. Sorry but I live amongst them and many tend to love the truth when presented to them.

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    wal 'aqibatulil muttaqeen Uthman Ibn Afan's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir



    Please note that just because a person says the Shahadah does not gaurantee that he/she is a Muslim, just as, for example, person who upholds justice but practices all forms of injustice, to continue to call him a just person, even if he proclaims to the world that he is just, is making a mockery of language and the intelligence.

    Shahadah does tell us that a person is a Muslim, but only as long as he/she does not uphold beliefs and ideas that negate it. If one were to uphold the view you seemingly do, then you would not be able declare anyone a disbeliever no matter how anti-Quranic and opposed to the clear teachings of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) they are. You would have to concede that even the Qadianis are Muslim as too are the Kharijis for they both pronounce the Shahadah, yet about the latter the Prophet (SAW) himself said, they would leave the Deen just as an arrow goes through its target (Sahih Muslim).

    Furthermore, this is not and never has been the approach of the best of generations and the Muslim scholars for the last 1400 years. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) with all the companions fought and killed those who denied Zakah, even though they would recite the Shahadah. The companions did this because these people had apostated from Islam, which is why those wars are known in Islamic History as the Riddah Wars (Apostasy wars).

    Similarly Islamic History testifies that Muslim scholars, in order to protect the pure Deen from corruption and the Ummah from misguidance, often declared as apostates or disbelievers individuals who held views that could not be reconciled in any way with the very teachings of the two entities found in the Shahadah.

    It will be clear to see for any objective person that this internal mechanism Islam has had to protect it from corruption is such a distinction that it helps prove its being the true Religion and divinely revealed. All other religions did, as you wish for Muslims to do, namely they let whatever erroneous baseless heresies reared their heads amongst them to take shelter under the name of the religion. Yet do you not see the absurdity of this, that something that is not only not revealed, but is in fact contrary to what is revealed, is somehow to be made equal to real revelation?

    Would we be so accommodating in worldly matters? If someone wished to buy another’s car and pulled out a pile of monopoly money, according to your principle the seller should happily accept the payment. But obviously you would never allow this, then why is it that when it comes to the most important of things: the Deen, upon which clings our eternal salvation or ruin we are prepared to make anything and everything the Religion of God.

    The Deen of Islam is that which the Holy Messenger (SAW) brought. Allah taala said: "Today I have perfected for you your Deen and completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your Religion" (Sura al-Maidah:3). This verse was revealed right at the end of the Messenger of Allah’s (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) mission. Thus when we look to the teachings of the Aga Khanis (& other deviant sects) we find clear violations of this and other sacred texts.

    As-Suffa Institute
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    HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

    Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

    "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

    "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
    Shaykh Akram Nadwi


    Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post


    Please note that just because a person says the Shahadah does not gaurantee that he/she is a Muslim, just as, for example, person who upholds justice but practices all forms of injustice, to continue to call him a just person, even if he proclaims to the world that he is just, is making a mockery of language and the intelligence.

    Shahadah does tell us that a person is a Muslim, but only as long as he/she does not uphold beliefs and ideas that negate it. If one were to uphold the view you seemingly do, then you would not be able declare anyone a disbeliever no matter how anti-Quranic and opposed to the clear teachings of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) they are. You would have to concede that even the Qadianis are Muslim as too are the Kharijis for they both pronounce the Shahadah, yet about the latter the Prophet (SAW) himself said, they would leave the Deen just as an arrow goes through its target (Sahih Muslim).

    Furthermore, this is not and never has been the approach of the best of generations and the Muslim scholars for the last 1400 years. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) with all the companions fought and killed those who denied Zakah, even though they would recite the Shahadah. The companions did this because these people had apostated from Islam, which is why those wars are known in Islamic History as the Riddah Wars (Apostasy wars).

    Similarly Islamic History testifies that Muslim scholars, in order to protect the pure Deen from corruption and the Ummah from misguidance, often declared as apostates or disbelievers individuals who held views that could not be reconciled in any way with the very teachings of the two entities found in the Shahadah.

    It will be clear to see for any objective person that this internal mechanism Islam has had to protect it from corruption is such a distinction that it helps prove its being the true Religion and divinely revealed. All other religions did, as you wish for Muslims to do, namely they let whatever erroneous baseless heresies reared their heads amongst them to take shelter under the name of the religion. Yet do you not see the absurdity of this, that something that is not only not revealed, but is in fact contrary to what is revealed, is somehow to be made equal to real revelation?

    Would we be so accommodating in worldly matters? If someone wished to buy another’s car and pulled out a pile of monopoly money, according to your principle the seller should happily accept the payment. But obviously you would never allow this, then why is it that when it comes to the most important of things: the Deen, upon which clings our eternal salvation or ruin we are prepared to make anything and everything the Religion of God.

    The Deen of Islam is that which the Holy Messenger (SAW) brought. Allah taala said: "Today I have perfected for you your Deen and completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your Religion" (Sura al-Maidah:3). This verse was revealed right at the end of the Messenger of Allah’s (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) mission. Thus when we look to the teachings of the Aga Khanis (& other deviant sects) we find clear violations of this and other sacred texts.

    As-Suffa Institute
    If you feel confident in declaring someone a kafir, then by all means, you're free to do what you want.

    But I will not take upon myself the authority that belongs only to Allah (SWT).

    Allahu 3alem.
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    If you feel confident in declaring someone a kafir, then by all means, you're free to do what you want.

    But I will not take upon myself the authority that belongs only to Allah (SWT).

    Allahu 3alem.
    If you read what I posted then you would see that Muslims are allowed to judge by the Quran & Sunnah, and that was the understanding of the sahaba and the scholars throughout the history of Islam. So I'll stick to what the Prophet taught.
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    Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

    "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

    "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
    Shaykh Akram Nadwi


    Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    If you read what I posted then you would see that Muslims are allowed to judge by the Quran & Sunnah, and that was the understanding of the sahaba and the scholars throughout the history of Islam. So I'll stick to what the Prophet taught.
    I'll stick to what Qur'an and Hadith actually say, and not what scholars say they say.

    You want to listen to what scholars say it says then you will be worshipping trees and fire eventually. Scholars opinions are as varied as the flowers.

    Qur'an and Hadith make it VERY clear not to call someone a kafir and judge anyone, because YOU DO NOT KNOW GHAIB, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS GHAIB. Judging someone is GHAIB ONLY ALLAH KNOWS.

    You may THINK and you may PERCEIVE that someone goes against Qur'an and Sunnah, but the responsibility of determining if that person really is going against Qur'an and Sunnah is the head of the Islamic state, and then they will try that person according to Shariah. And if the person warrants punishment according to Shariah, then they will receive Shariah's punishment justly in this life. But ALLAH IS THEIR JUDGE in the next life.

    You do not even have the responsibility nor the authority to judge according to Shariah IN THIS LIFE, let alone to call someone kafir and say they are occupants of hell in the next. ASTAGFIRULLAH.

    It may be that you call someone kafir because they praise Ali(AS) and then tomorrow you are praising Ali(AS) so you just called yourself kafir!

    It may be that you call a drunk a kafir because he doesn't believe in Islam! It may be that you are drunk tomorrow and not believing in Islam!

    So guard yourself from Shaytan! Seek refuge with Allah!
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Odan IDK's Avatar
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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    If you read what I posted then you would see that Muslims are allowed to judge by the Quran & Sunnah, and that was the understanding of the sahaba and the scholars throughout the history of Islam. So I'll stick to what the Prophet taught.
    brother, this is like for example the prophet saws said, may Allah curse the adulterers but you cant curse a single adulterer, this is what the scholars say, so similarly while Allah may call christians or whoever kuffar, you cant call a single person that because you dont know what is in the heart of this person, it is not what you call yourself but what you actually are in your heart, just like someone may call themselves a salafi but in fact not follow the salafs at all, so it is not what you call yourself but what you have in your heart, and since each heart is differnt we cannot say that for a particular person

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    I'll stick to what Qur'an and Hadith actually say, and not what scholars say they say.

    You want to listen to what scholars say it says then you will be worshipping trees and fire eventually. Scholars opinions are as varied as the flowers.

    Qur'an and Hadith make it VERY clear not to call someone a kafir and judge anyone, because YOU DO NOT KNOW GHAIB, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS GHAIB. Judging someone is GHAIB ONLY ALLAH KNOWS.
    Fools like you will not call a liar liar, a rapist rapist, a murderer murderer because you don't have Ilm-al-ghayb?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Fools like you will not call a liar liar, a rapist rapist, a murderer murderer because you don't have Ilm-al-ghayb?
    We all have lied at some point, whether intentionally or unintentionally. It is hypocritical to call someone a liar.

    Rape/murder are different.

    If a man forces a woman against her will, then he is a rapist and he will be judged and punished according to Shariah by the Islamic Head of State.

    The same for a murderer. It is up to the State to punish them.

    If you start shouting at them, throwing stones at them, before they have had a trial, then you could be throwing stones and shouting at an innocent man. If that same man had've went to trial, he could have established his innocence and proved that his accusers were actually lying.

    See?

    You don't know what you don't know. If something has been proven, then sure call them what they have been found guilty of.

    But KAFIR cannot be proven in this life. Kafir is proven in the next life.
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    But KAFIR cannot be proven in this life. Kafir is proven in the next life.
    Then the companions of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam, his caliphs made mistakes by waging jihad against Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Then the companions of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam, his caliphs made mistakes by waging jihad against Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians?
    Nope.

    They attacked nations who were hostile. It isn't like they went and invaded innocent towns. They offered peace to the evil kings of that time, and they either accepted or rejected. If they rejected peace then they needed to be killed and conquered, otherwise it would be like allowing Hitler to live and do as he pleases.

    There is a difference between offering Islam to an individual and offering Islam to a country.

    Many scholars have talked about this in the past.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask. But most of the answers can be found if you took the initiative to learn about Islam.
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Nope.

    They attacked nations who were hostile. It isn't like they went and invaded innocent towns.
    Persia was not hostile but it was invaded.

    They offered peace to the evil kings of that time, and they either accepted or rejected. If they rejected peace then they needed to be killed and conquered, otherwise it would be like allowing Hitler to live and do as he pleases.
    And they rejected peace because they were Muslims or Kafirs?
    A person who rejects peace (Islam) is a Muslim in your dictionary?

    There is a difference between offering Islam to an individual and offering Islam to a country.
    Do you mean a person cannot be a kafir but a country can be kafir?

    Many scholars have talked about this in the past.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask. But most of the answers can be found if you took the initiative to learn about Islam.
    Many scholars talked about it because you were not born then, now they have stopped talking about it, right?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Persia was not hostile but it was invaded.
    Proof of your ignorance on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    And they rejected peace because they were Muslims or Kafirs?
    They rejected peace because of their history with the Arabs. Please go read the History of Islam and Arabia before you ask such basic questions insha'Allah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    A person who rejects peace (Islam) is a Muslim in your dictionary?
    Are you a Muslim? You have rejected peace many times from what I have seen in your posts.

    My definition of Muslim is according to the Qur'an.

    "'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."" Qur'an 3:52

    Jesus (as) was a Muslim, and his disciples were Muslim. Go do some more research, figure out what it really means to be Muslim according to Allah (SWT).

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Do you mean a person cannot be a kafir but a country can be kafir?
    I don't know where you got this idea from.

    A person can be a kafir, but only Allah (SWT) knows who is concealing the truth in their hearts (definition of kufr).

    A country doesn't have a soul, how can a country be a kafir?

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Many scholars talked about it because you were not born then, now they have stopped talking about it, right?
    There are still many scholars talking about Islam, alhamdulilah.

    Here is a lecture of a scholar, listen to him and it will benefit you a lot insha'Allah
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMfWURGcvBI
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Then the companions of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam, his caliphs made mistakes by waging jihad against Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians?
    Yes.

    It's wrong to invade other people's lands.

    We have some recent examples about this, right ?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Nope.

    They attacked nations who were hostile. It isn't like they went and invaded innocent towns. They offered peace to the evil kings of that time, and they either accepted or rejected. If they rejected peace then they needed to be killed and conquered,.
    So, starting from Arabia, they offered peace, and it was refused.

    So, they invaded Syria. They offered peace, and it was refused. So, they invaded, Palestine. Then Egypt. Then, Lybia.

    Tunesia. Algeria. Morocco.

    Then, Spain. Southern France.

    Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily. Southern Italy. Why, they even sacked Rome ....

    All those people just needed to be killed and conquered....

    How could you possibly believe this total nonsense ?

    Arab invaders were mainly after political power and booty. Just like your average imperialist.

    Of course, having a justification (religion, democracy, WMDs etc) is soooo much better.... right ?

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    B]Volume:5 Book :59 Number :638, Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:[/B]
    'Ali bin Abi talib sent a piece of gold not yet taken out of its ore, in a tanned leather container to Allah's Apostle . Allah's Apostle distributed that amongst four Persons: 'Uyaina bin Badr, Aqra bin Habis, Zaid Al-Khail and the fourth was either Alqama or Amir bin At Tufail. On that, one of his companions said, "We are more deserving of this (gold) than these (persons)." When that news reached the Prophet , he said, "Don't you trust me though I am the truth worthy man of the One in the Heavens, and I receive the news of Heaven (i.e. Divine Inspiration) both in the morning and in the evening?" There got up a man with sunken eyes, raised cheek bones, raised forehead, a thick beard, a shaven head and a waist sheet that was tucked up and he said, "O Allah's Apostle! Be afraid of Allah." The Prophet said, "Woe to you! Am I not of all the people of the earth the most entitled to fear Allah?" Then that man went away. Khalid bin Al-Wahd said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I chop his neck off?" The Prophet said, "No, for he may offer prayers." Khalid said, "Numerous are those who offer prayers and say by their tongues (i.e. mouths) what is not in their hearts." Allah's Apostle said, "I have not been ordered (by Allah) to search the hearts of the people or cut open their bellies." Then the Prophet looked at him (i.e. that man) while the latter was going away and said, "From the offspring of this (man there will come out (people) who will recite the Qur'an continuously and elegantly but it will not exceed their throats. (They will neither understand it nor act upon it). They would go out of the religion (i.e. Islam) as an arrow goes through a game's body." I think he also said, "If I should be present at their time I would kill them as the nations a Thamud were killed."
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    They deleted my thread about love for people.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by truffaut View Post
    Yes.

    It's wrong to invade other people's lands.

    We have some recent examples about this, right ?
    It's right to invade satanic Christian's and Jewish Pagan's lands and implement shar'iyah over there because these Pagans have enslaved slaves of Allah and don't let them obey Him.
    Recent examples of Kafir invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan demands Muslims to wage Jihad against Satanic Christians and Jews and kick them out of there and they are already doing that mashaAllah.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by PleaseThink View Post
    They deleted my thread about love for people.
    Perhaps they knew that your infallible imams didn't love people but cursed them in their duas.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by truffaut View Post
    So, starting from Arabia, they offered peace, and it was refused.

    So, they invaded Syria. They offered peace, and it was refused. So, they invaded, Palestine. Then Egypt. Then, Lybia.

    Tunesia. Algeria. Morocco.

    Then, Spain. Southern France.

    Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily. Southern Italy. Why, they even sacked Rome ....

    All those people just needed to be killed and conquered....

    How could you possibly believe this total nonsense ?

    Arab invaders were mainly after political power and booty. Just like your average imperialist.

    Of course, having a justification (religion, democracy, WMDs etc) is soooo much better.... right ?
    They liberated slaves of Allah from the slavery of Christian pagans.

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    It's right to invade satanic Christian's and Jewish Pagan's lands and implement shar'iyah over there and blah blah blah.
    you are a joke, and a disgrace to Islam

    apart from that, an outstanding guy

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    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    They rejected peace because of their history with the Arabs. Please go read the History of Islam and Arabia before you ask such basic questions insha'Allah.
    Islam is not about nationalism, the Jihad in Persia had nothing to do with their enmity with Arabs. Go to school and finish your course of history.

    Are you a Muslim? You have rejected peace many times from what I have seen in your posts.
    Your eyes have defects, they don't show you things clearly.

    My definition of Muslim is according to the Qur'an.

    "'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."" Qur'an 3:52

    Jesus (as) was a Muslim, and his disciples were Muslim. Go do some more research, figure out what it really means to be Muslim according to Allah (SWT).
    Change your definition:

    قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ

    109:1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!


    I don't know where you got this idea from.
    Luckily, not from you.

    A person can be a kafir, but only Allah (SWT) knows who is concealing the truth in their hearts (definition of kufr).
    Where in Quran does it say that only Allah knows who is kafir and Allah doesn't let Muslims know of it?

    A country doesn't have a soul, how can a country be a kafir?
    A country doesn't have soul then how come it's offered peace, you genius?

    So you are the follower of Shaykh Youtube?

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