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  1. #1
    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Authu bilahi minaysh shaytani Rajeem, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: The Prophet (s)said, “O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The People said, “And also on our NAJD.” He said, “O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The people said, “O Allah’s Apostle! And also on our NAJD.” I think the third time the Prophet (s) said, “There (in NAJD) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan.”

    Sahi Bukhari (Book #88, Hadith #214)


    http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f...ahabism-31284/

    Inshallah the purpose of this thread is to show that different people have different opinions and Salafi/Wahabi is not the majority nor are there so many people who like it or agree with it.

    I don't necessarily agree with everything written there, as I have not myself studied Ahadith, but this is still something to consider. The reason to consider is because a lot of Salafi/Wahabi are always calling bida'a and kufr etc... they literally are attacking the Ummah, and subhanallah there are hadith warning us of this from what I can tell.

    Astagfirullah authu bilahi minaysh shaytani Rajeem, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

    You may refer to my thread:
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...lafi-inshallah

    Inshallah

    Wa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullah wa barakatoh
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

  2. #121
    rasheed gonzales aboo ishaaq's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    On the maps I've looked at, directly East of Medinah is Riyadh.
    There are a few things you need to consider here.

    The first of them is the fact the more you read Islamic texts, you'll find that when there is mention of directions (i.e., north, south, east, west), these references are usually genereal, not specific. Rarely will you find mention of things like "north-west" or "east-south-east". It's almost always simply "north" or "south", etc. An example of this is the fact that among many Arabs, you'll here them say that Yemen is south of Saudi. Looking at the map, Yemen isn't directly south of Saudi. Since the peninsula is at a bit of an angle, you could say that according to the map, Yemen is south-east of Saudi. But this is not the way the people of the land understand it. They simply say it's south. So while Iraq might be north of Madinah on today's maps, it's considered to be east of Madinah by the people of the land.

    The second thing you have to consider is the map itself. Today's topographical maps are all modern. They did not have these maps during the time of the Prophet. They didn't have today's compasses either. For many people of that time, if they saw the sun rising from over there, then that was east. If they saw the sun set over that way, that was west.

    Third thing to consider are the names of these places. While some of the cities, towns, and regions are still referred to by the same names as they were during the Prophet's time, you have to keep in mind that sometimes, names change. You also have to keep in mind that some of the places that exist back then are no longer in existence now, as well as vice versa: some of the places that exist now weren't in existence back then. Some of these places could easily share names with others.

    These things are all why it's extremely important to read the works of the earlier scholars to help understand the divine texts with their proper explanations.
    “The entirety of faith is deed” – Imam Muhammad bin Ismâ'îl al-Bukhârî, al-Jâmi' as-Sahîh , Kitâb al-Îmân.

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  3. #122
    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    the old iraq was much larger then modern-day iraq

    and if you was in yemen would you still consider the UK to be in the west?
    If Muhammad(saws) pointed East, then we should not say that he meant north or he would have pointed north. He was telling us what is going to come in the future, and also was telling us it would come from the east. To the east is the deserts of the Arabian peninsula, including Riyadh.

    The Arabian peninsula has remained the Arabian Peninsula, even if he was pointing at Iraq if it's borders were larger (which they weren't) http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/p...wikimapmax.jpg , the region that the horn of Shaytan is coming out of would be modern day Saudi Arabia, so the point remains that it is either coming out of Saudi Arabia, or somewhere farther East.

    I'm not saying that ibn Abdul Wahhab is the horn of shaytan, astagfirullah, I'm just saying that it can't be from Iraq according to logic and geography and the hadith we have to go by. I'm also just quoting what other people have said, and I find that ibn Abdul Wahhab's brother's comment to be very interesting, is that a fabricated comment or did he really say that? Not that it is proof of course but interesting that he should say that none the least.

    Allah knows best, I didn't mean to start such controversy, sometimes I'm just very naive in thinking that the Ummah gets along and is respectful and helpful in learning. Astagfirullah wasalaam
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

  4. #123
    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by aboo ishaaq View Post
    There are a few things you need to consider here.

    The first of them is the fact the more you read Islamic texts, you'll find that when there is mention of directions (i.e., north, south, east, west), these references are usually genereal, not specific. Rarely will you find mention of things like "north-west" or "east-south-east". It's almost always simply "north" or "south", etc. An example of this is the fact that among many Arabs, you'll here them say that Yemen is south of Saudi. Looking at the map, Yemen isn't directly south of Saudi. Since the peninsula is at a bit of an angle, you could say that according to the map, Yemen is south-east of Saudi. But this is not the way the people of the land understand it. They simply say it's south. So while Iraq might be north of Madinah on today's maps, it's considered to be east of Madinah by the people of the land.

    The second thing you have to consider is the map itself. Today's topographical maps are all modern. They did not have these maps during the time of the Prophet. They didn't have today's compasses either. For many people of that time, if they saw the sun rising from over there, then that was east. If they saw the sun set over that way, that was west.

    Third thing to consider are the names of these places. While some of the cities, towns, and regions are still referred to by the same names as they were during the Prophet's time, you have to keep in mind that sometimes, names change. You also have to keep in mind that some of the places that exist back then are no longer in existence now, as well as vice versa: some of the places that exist now weren't in existence back then. Some of these places could easily share names with others.

    These things are all why it's extremely important to read the works of the earlier scholars to help understand the divine texts with their proper explanations.
    Jazakallah khayr,

    That was a nice post akhi, I have sort of considered these things but I guess I could have taken modern technology for granted in this case.

    Whatever the case may be in the direction, North/East North-East, Allah knows best.

    Maybe the horn of Shaytan refers to Iraq and that is why there is so much war in Iraq, Allahu 3alem. It can be said that this topic is irrelevant, but to me it is important, and to anyone else who finds these matters important then they can appreciate my curiousity inshallah.

    Jazakallah khayr for everyone's patience and understanding, as I said in a previous post just before writing this response:

    Allah knows best, I didn't mean to start such controversy, sometimes I'm just very naive in thinking that the Ummah gets along and is respectful and helpful in learning. Astagfirullah wasalaam
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

  5. #124
    Odan tayyiboon's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post

    Allah knows best, I didn't mean to start such controversy, sometimes I'm just very naive in thinking that the Ummah gets along and is respectful and helpful in learning. Astagfirullah wasalaam
    that is a blatant lie, considering the heading of your post "Wahabism" why did you include that word which was never there in any of the Hadith??!!!
    "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

  6. #125
    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by tayyiboon View Post
    that is a blatant lie, considering the heading of your post "Wahabism" why did you include that word which was never there in any of the Hadith??!!!
    Asalaamu alaikum,

    Astagfirullah, I already apologized and expressed my intention. You can either believe me or call me a liar, Allah is my judge.

    I included Wahabism in brackets () because that was what I read in the article, I apologize but I didn't know that Wahabism was a bad term, I have a friend who calls himself "Wahabi" but now after having more conversations with people on here I see that they get angry at the term, so I'm sorry.

    I appreciate your anger brother but I have apologized. There is still the fact that many scholars believe that these ahadith refer to the Salafis, and that is what the original article in the original post is alluding to, so the thread title is in reference to that, not my opinion, as I expressed also in my original post. Have you even read my original post? The first post of this thread. If you did, why are you so angry at me for being honest and sincere?

    Asalaamu alaikum akhi.
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

  7. #126
    rasheed gonzales aboo ishaaq's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Maybe the horn of Shaytan refers to Iraq and that is why there is so much war in Iraq, Allahu 3alem.
    According to scholars of the past whose explanations are taken into serious consideration, an-Najd in these narrations refers to Iraq. There are other narrations from the Companions that lend strong support to this understanding as well. I can't remember the exact narration and I don't want to misquote it, but there is a narration where Abdullah bin Umar is reprimanding the people of Iraq for the turmoil they cause. If you look at Islamic history, Iraq has always been a region with turmoil going on. According to some historians, this is one of the reasons why al-Hajjaj bin Yusuf, one of the most ruthless tyrant governers in Islamic history, was sent there by the Caliph at the time. He himself has been quoted as telling them that he was sent by Allah as a punishment for them.
    “The entirety of faith is deed” – Imam Muhammad bin Ismâ'îl al-Bukhârî, al-Jâmi' as-Sahîh , Kitâb al-Îmân.

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    i have alway though this hadithwa either about t shykh Juhaymaan Al-Otaibi (who came from najd)...the one who led the seige on Makkah on 1st Muhharraam 1400

    or

    the history of Iraq ie the fitna that has been seen and will be seen (ie dajjal) and the emergence of diviant groups in that area.
    Last edited by D_K; 02-03-10 at 03:50 PM.

  9. #128
    Senior Member Muqarrib's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post

    Jazakallah khayr for everyone's patience and understanding, as I said in a previous post just before writing this response:

    Allah knows best, I didn't mean to start such controversy, sometimes I'm just very naive in thinking that the Ummah gets along and is respectful and helpful in learning. Astagfirullah wasalaam


    Akhi AlyahisSalaam,

    I would also apologize to you for getting angry at you, for taking a Hadith out of context & for going against the consensus of Ahlus Sunnah, regarding the Salafis. I felt you were being stubborn and not listening to the criticisms & advice of other posters in this Thread.

    Once again, forgive me Akhi.

    MashaAllah you are a New Muslim, but take it from a guy who has due to his own ignorance & "big mouth", accused and labeled people in the past. And I really dont know what is going to happen to me if Allah SWT calls me to account for all that I have said against people. A wrong accusation or slander can destroy all your good deeds and Allah will hand over your good deeds to the one whom you wrongfully accused.

    I can only beg Allah, Most Gracious to forgive me.


    Whether Najd is in Iraq, Saudi or Pluto - this hadith does not refer to Muhammad ibn Abdal-Wahhab (may Allah have mercy on him) or the Salafis. And Allah knows best. And please dont take the example of a few BAD, ignorant, Takfiri Salafis and generalize all the millions of Salafis and its founder.

    The differences between the Salafis and the other groups of the Ahlus Sunnah is on Fiqh matters only. So dont let Shaytaan spread division & hatred amongst ourselves. And as I have said - so many good, pious Salafis have sacrificed their lives for this Deen. And if you met some of these Good Salafis, you would wish you could come close to their level of Taqwa, humility and Ehsaan.

    So make duaa to Allah that He unites us all together as brothers in Islam and may He grant us the Tawfiq to stand together in the battlefield to defend Islam against the Kuffar. Whether we are Salafi, Tablighi, Maaliki or even a good Sufi - we are all ONE.

    Since you are interested in Tasawwuf (I prefer to call it Ehsaan) - try to achieve this level of love for your brothers in Islam even if they are bad to you or you dont agree with their Madhab. Cleanse your heart of all grudge/resentment for your brothers.


    "Our Lord! Forgive us and our brethren who have preceded us in Faith, and put not in our hearts any hatred against those who have believed. Our Lord! You are indeed full of kindness, Most Merciful."
    [Chap 59 : v 10]
    Last edited by Muqarrib; 03-03-10 at 05:36 AM.

  10. #129
    Senior Member Muqarrib's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Theres good Salafis & then theres bad Salafis - just like with every other group, Madhab or religion. But just because you came across a few bad, ignorant people, does not give you the right to label all of them Khawarij or Hizbus Shaytaan. If we do, then we are guilty of being just as ignorant & intolerant as they are.

    And as other posters have advised you to seek knowledge from respected & reputed scholars & websites, that dont hold this kind of grudge, resentment and hatred in their hearts for other groups. And believe me, there is a lot of this kind of animosity, even among the Ahlus Sunnah.

    I try to avoid these kinds of narrow-minded, petty people. And since you are a New-Muslim, be careful where you get your info & knowledge from and what their "agenda" is.


    I would also recommend you listen to this beautiful lecture by Imam Anwar al-Awlaki on Tolerance - A Hallmark of Muslim Character:

    http://kalamullah.com/Anwar%20Al-Awl...0Character.mp3

    SubhaanAllah, this lecture is perfect for this Thread.


    May Allah, Most Gracious continue to guide you and may He make you of those that are Closest to Him (al-Muqarraboon). Ameen.

    Share some love Akhi.

    Last edited by Muqarrib; 03-03-10 at 05:42 AM.

  11. #130
    Astaghfirullah AlayhisSalaam's Avatar
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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Jazakallah khayr akhi,

    Wayyakum, may Allah (SWT) bless and guide us all to the true and straight path, away from ignorance and towards proper Fiqh. Ameen.

    Akhi, I do not think that every (anything) is bad. There are good and bad in everything. I only speak out against that which I see is ultimately causing people to leave Islam. I see that many people hate and leave Islam because of what many Salafi's preach. I was having a conversation with one non-Muslim for example, and he mentioned Salafi and I listened and he said that he liked how they were on a straight and logical path when it comes to the Oneness of God (tawhid) but he said that they were "artificial", and if a non-Muslim can see that, then how do you think my impression has been from what I've seen from the inside?

    Alhamdulilah there are a lot of great Salafi brothers and sisters, mashallah, no doubt about that, I do not argue that at all, and I also will not ever say that anyone who lived in the past was evil, inshallah wa astagfirullah. I do not make these sorts of claims, and I do not generalize a group of people based on the actions of a few people. However, as a human, I naturally form an opinion based on the events and actions that I see take place. I have seen a lot of artificiality and lack of sincere piety coming from many so-called Salafi scholars. While there are a great many of pure and humble Salafi scholars, most of them are twisted by their in-fighting and bickering and takfiring.... For instance.... You know Bilal Phillips, right? Well he has been shunned by a group of fellow Salafis because they disagreed on a topic and the other group of Salafis say that he is not Salafi enough to be Salafi and they believe he is an innovator and don't associate with him. Bilal Phillips is a strict Salafi, but there are Salafis even stricter than him, especially in England, and they are giving Islam a very horrible light when they shun a fellow scholar in the manner that they did.

    These are the sorts of things that I see and I just wanted to ask about hadith which have been said to apply to them, not implying that they do in fact apply but finding the truth by taking a neutral logical approach.

    I still disagree with sects, I believe Islam is Islam, and while I do label myself "Sunni" for the sake of explaining my overall perspective, I have a lot of love for Ahlul Bayt and I do not curse Shi'a for their views or anyone for that matter. If someone is spreading fitnah and causing people to leave Islam, then I have a problem. But if people are getting people into Islam then alhamdulilah for that.

    However, as I've said, many, many, many people who I meet who are Salafi are very harsh and you do not want to be friends with someone like that. Nobody does. I love everyone for the sake of Allah (SWT), I love them even though they are harsh, but if I ever try to be polite then they think I'm weak and being weak and not making takfir makes me a kafir! LOL

    Come on bro subhanallah surely you can see my frustration with some people. But I still love them, alhamdulilah. Please don't assume that I don't love anyone or that I have hatred for anyone, this is far from the truth, alhamdulilah of all of the qualities that I lack, I at least have sincere love for Allah (SWT) and His creation. I'm a relatively new Muslim yes alhamdulilah but I've been looking into these topics, experiencing the Islamic atmosphere, and deeply researching Islam for over 4 years now. I plan to study Arabic and memorize Qur'an as soon as possible and to continue pursuing the path of the scholar as far as Allah (SWT) wills.

    I'm not ignorant when it comes to being unbiased. If I were biased or weak-minded and allowed my opinions to be swayed then why am I a Muslim?

    I'm an American, surrounded by anti-Islamic media, why would I convert to Islam if I were weak-minded and impressionable? Lol astagfirullah akhi I'm not at all. I think my whole intention with this thread, and my academic approach, has been misunderstood. I love all of my fellow Muslims and non-Muslims, and the proof inshallah is in all of my posts, I have not been rude towards anyone as far as I know, astagfirullah.

    I forgive everyone for any mistakes they may have made against me, I do not even think that anyone has made mistakes against me, if I ever feel injustice then I point it out to someone and immediately I forgive them and I pray to Allah (SWT) to forgive everyone, including myself. I do not want to be responsible for anyone's disbelief or punishment in anyway, if someone does wrong to me and their good deeds are wiped out and given to me, as you said can happen to someone who curses someone else for example, then I would pray to Allah (SWT) to reverse that and forgive them, because I forgive them. If I forgive someone then surely Allah (SWT) can forgive them too, astagfirullah. Mashallah Allah (SWT) is beyond our comprehension in His Majesty and His Mercy, alhamdulilah.

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Jazakallah khayr akhi,

    Wayyakum, may Allah (SWT) bless and guide us all to the true and straight path, away from ignorance and towards proper Fiqh. Ameen.

    Akhi, I do not think that every (anything) is bad. There are good and bad in everything. I only speak out against that which I see is ultimately causing people to leave Islam. I see that many people hate and leave Islam because of what many Salafi's preach. I was having a conversation with one non-Muslim for example, and he mentioned Salafi and I listened and he said that he liked how they were on a straight and logical path when it comes to the Oneness of God (tawhid) but he said that they were "artificial", and if a non-Muslim can see that, then how do you think my impression has been from what I've seen from the inside?

    Alhamdulilah there are a lot of great Salafi brothers and sisters, mashallah, no doubt about that, I do not argue that at all, and I also will not ever say that anyone who lived in the past was evil, inshallah wa astagfirullah. I do not make these sorts of claims, and I do not generalize a group of people based on the actions of a few people. However, as a human, I naturally form an opinion based on the events and actions that I see take place. I have seen a lot of artificiality and lack of sincere piety coming from many so-called Salafi scholars. While there are a great many of pure and humble Salafi scholars, most of them are twisted by their in-fighting and bickering and takfiring.... For instance.... You know Bilal Phillips, right? Well he has been shunned by a group of fellow Salafis because they disagreed on a topic and the other group of Salafis say that he is not Salafi enough to be Salafi and they believe he is an innovator and don't associate with him. Bilal Phillips is a strict Salafi, but there are Salafis even stricter than him, especially in England, and they are giving Islam a very horrible light when they shun a fellow scholar in the manner that they did.

    These are the sorts of things that I see and I just wanted to ask about hadith which have been said to apply to them, not implying that they do in fact apply but finding the truth by taking a neutral logical approach.

    I still disagree with sects, I believe Islam is Islam, and while I do label myself "Sunni" for the sake of explaining my overall perspective, I have a lot of love for Ahlul Bayt and I do not curse Shi'a for their views or anyone for that matter. If someone is spreading fitnah and causing people to leave Islam, then I have a problem. But if people are getting people into Islam then alhamdulilah for that.

    However, as I've said, many, many, many people who I meet who are Salafi are very harsh and you do not want to be friends with someone like that. Nobody does. I love everyone for the sake of Allah (SWT), I love them even though they are harsh, but if I ever try to be polite then they think I'm weak and being weak and not making takfir makes me a kafir! LOL

    Come on bro subhanallah surely you can see my frustration with some people. But I still love them, alhamdulilah. Please don't assume that I don't love anyone or that I have hatred for anyone, this is far from the truth, alhamdulilah of all of the qualities that I lack, I at least have sincere love for Allah (SWT) and His creation. I'm a relatively new Muslim yes alhamdulilah but I've been looking into these topics, experiencing the Islamic atmosphere, and deeply researching Islam for over 4 years now. I plan to study Arabic and memorize Qur'an as soon as possible and to continue pursuing the path of the scholar as far as Allah (SWT) wills.

    I'm not ignorant when it comes to being unbiased. If I were biased or weak-minded and allowed my opinions to be swayed then why am I a Muslim?

    I'm an American, surrounded by anti-Islamic media, why would I convert to Islam if I were weak-minded and impressionable? Lol astagfirullah akhi I'm not at all. I think my whole intention with this thread, and my academic approach, has been misunderstood. I love all of my fellow Muslims and non-Muslims, and the proof inshallah is in all of my posts, I have not been rude towards anyone as far as I know, astagfirullah.

    I forgive everyone for any mistakes they may have made against me, I do not even think that anyone has made mistakes against me, if I ever feel injustice then I point it out to someone and immediately I forgive them and I pray to Allah (SWT) to forgive everyone, including myself. I do not want to be responsible for anyone's disbelief or punishment in anyway, if someone does wrong to me and their good deeds are wiped out and given to me, as you said can happen to someone who curses someone else for example, then I would pray to Allah (SWT) to reverse that and forgive them, because I forgive them. If I forgive someone then surely Allah (SWT) can forgive them too, astagfirullah. Mashallah Allah (SWT) is beyond our comprehension in His Majesty and His Mercy, alhamdulilah.

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
    There are many type of Salafis, you have the takfiri type
    you have the madkhali type ( which is the ones you speak off)
    you have the ikhwani type
    you have so many itihaad.
    etc etc etc

    so what people consider salafi has become broadly 6 sub groups.

    as for this fakeness that the non muslim saw allah knows best what he meant by this.
    as for bilal philips then he deserves a thread by himself by urge people not to go down that lane.

    anyway as for this harshness than this is universal indicator to stay well away from that person, but this has nothing to do with salafiya or sufiyya or whatever other sect you wish to name.

    the point simply is brother and that is the brothers who are true ''salafis'' do not use this label and find the term muslim sufficeint. Most scholars in Saudi Arabia hate this type of approach to islam. I was in the presence of the grand mufti himself when he denouced this sort of behaviour.

    so for those who have lived and studied with the shuyuukh in the gulf can testify that they cannot understand this harsness because we do not see it so much and we when we do we know how to handle such haughty youth

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    To put it bluntly salafiyya has just as much colours as the rainbow and many people some things salafi might not be , so its somewhat of a tedious task to figure out what is salafiyya and what is not.

    the vast majority of salafis scholars propogate what is known as the Athari aqeedah and consider other aqeedah deviant, due to this causes clashes with other groups namely Deobandis whom they at one point had good relations. this was in the early 70's late 80's .

    My dad use to tell me that the Madinah had a large group of deobandis that used to frequent the lectures of the scholars in masjid anabawi.

    What can say is that the scholars that followed a madhab have been for the most removed from their posts sadly this is the truth.
    When my dad studied in the haramain , he told me that there was a scholar of each madhab in the harmain. and that there were mujtahids of various madhabs in the haramain with thousands of students .


    sad to say that today there is large amount of intolarance coming from a group of scholars that have taken a course that is different than there respected predecessors and its with these scholars that you will labeled deviant or innovater .

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamza89 View Post
    To put it bluntly salafiyya has just as much colours as the rainbow and many people some things salafi might not be , so its somewhat of a tedious task to figure out what is salafiyya and what is not.

    the vast majority of salafis scholars propogate what is known as the Athari aqeedah and consider other aqeedah deviant, due to this causes clashes with other groups namely Deobandis whom they at one point had good relations. this was in the early 70's late 80's .

    My dad use to tell me that the Madinah had a large group of deobandis that used to frequent the lectures of the scholars in masjid anabawi.

    What can say is that the scholars that followed a madhab have been for the most removed from their posts sadly this is the truth.
    When my dad studied in the haramain , he told me that there was a scholar of each madhab in the harmain. and that there were mujtahids of various madhabs in the haramain with thousands of students .


    sad to say that today there is large amount of intolarance coming from a group of scholars that have taken a course that is different than there respected predecessors and its with these scholars that you will labeled deviant or innovater .

    Jazakallah khayr akhi for your response.

    I'm sorry if I was rude to you akhi, I don't know if you were rude to me or not, I honestly don't remember, I forgive and forget instantly. The only thing that bothers me is if someone attacks Islam, then I defend Islam in the best of manners inshallah, but when they persist and are rude then all I can do is say salaam to them and leave it usually. However, I see this on the forum, and because the words on a forum linger, it is hard to stop and let them continue their rant, especially when they are pretending to be Muslim! Then that is worst because they're causing people to disbelieve Islam as a result of their evil intentions. Astagfirullah. I'm not saying this to you brother, I'm just speaking now because it is important to understand where I am coming from if you want to understand why I have said the things I have said.

    Allahu 3alem.

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
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    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Jazakallah khayr akhi for your response.

    I'm sorry if I was rude to you akhi, I don't know if you were rude to me or not, I honestly don't remember, I forgive and forget instantly. The only thing that bothers me is if someone attacks Islam, then I defend Islam in the best of manners inshallah, but when they persist and are rude then all I can do is say salaam to them and leave it usually. However, I see this on the forum, and because the words on a forum linger, it is hard to stop and let them continue their rant, especially when they are pretending to be Muslim! Then that is worst because they're causing people to disbelieve Islam as a result of their evil intentions. Astagfirullah. I'm not saying this to you brother, I'm just speaking now because it is important to understand where I am coming from if you want to understand why I have said the things I have said.

    Allahu 3alem.

    Asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
    Allah has blessed me with the chance to study with various groups , i have studied quran with sufis, asharis. I have been given ijaza in quran by a ashari sufi. he taught me the quran may allah have mercy on his soul. so i don't take the course that some of these people do.
    however that is not to say that i will agree with everything my shaykh used to say.

    many people become apostates because maybe their faith wasn't strong enough or whatever but i don't think we can pin it to a group

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by hamza89 View Post
    Allah has blessed me with the chance to study with various groups , i have studied quran with sufis, asharis. I have been given ijaza in quran by a ashari sufi. he taught me the quran may allah have mercy on his soul. so i don't take the course that some of these people do.
    however that is not to say that i will agree with everything my shaykh used to say.

    many people become apostates because maybe their faith wasn't strong enough or whatever but i don't think we can pin it to a group
    Alhamdulilah.

    No we can't pin anything to a group with absolute certainty because only Allah (SWT) knows for sure. But I have seen in England that the so-called Salafi's are responsible for the hatred of Muslims. They have been harsh to their fellow Muslims and even harsher towards the non-Muslims... and when non-Muslims see this then they think all Muslims are like that and they protest.... It is very bad astagfirullah.

    I do not agree with everything anyone says, except Allah (SWT) and Muhammad(saws). I listen to anyone who has wisdom, even if they're a Hindu. I don't care, if I can learn from someone, then I will inshallah learn Hikmah from them, because ultimately that Hikmah is from Allah (SWT).

    I listen to Salafi's talk on PeaceTV all of the time. Many of them have good teachings to offer. My favorite Sheikh on PeaceTV though is Sheikh Salem Al Amry, I see the noor in his face mashallah. I am not a sectarian, I love all brothers and sisters, Muslim and non-Muslim, we are all Allah (SWT)'s creation.

    Look at this brother's noor and hikmah mashallah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01WUNryT6pk Salem Al Amry.

    Sheikh Nazim, I still believe, has said very wise comments. I do not follow him or take bayah because of grey areas, but there is nothing wrong with telling the truth. The truth is that Sheikh Nazim has helped thousands of people become Muslim, and Sheikh Nazim has helped improve the lives of thousands of Muslims, by will of Allah (SWT). Shi'a, Sufi, Sunni, everyone who has devoted their lives to Allah (SWT), they are Muslim, and they have fought for the truth and spoken the truth, then alhamdulilah we cannot lie against them. If they are misguided in any way then we talk to them kind words inshallah but how can we be so certain that we're on the right way? We're always so certain that we're correct that we call everyone else wrong... The person we disagree with has the same, if not more, enthusiasm and conviction than we do! As certain and convinced as we are that we're following Qur'an and Sunnah, they are equally or more certain and convinced that they are following Qur'an and Sunnah! I do not deny this, and nobody should, but many of us do! Calling Nazim "Snake Nazim" Astagfirullah! You should not taunt anyone! We should call mercifully everyone to the truth and if they deny it then we can say to people "Well I have had a debate with (such and such) and we agreed to disagree, we do not share the same views, so you can decide for yourself what is the truth." Alhamdulilah inshallah this is the way we should conduct ourselves!

    But nobody is going to read this, what I'm writing right now, except by the will of Allah (SWT), so I make du'a right now, "Ya Allah please make brothers and sisters read what I have written and open their minds and their eyes and their hearts and make them understand this, and open mine as well and make me understand and not be a hypocrit inshallah, ya Allah please guide us all and forgive us and improve our iman and our Hikmah inshallah. Ameen"

    Wa alaikum salaam
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    wa alaykumu salaam

    brother in this religion of ours there is such a thing as takfir and the labelling of some as mushirks and bidi'is etc very much present in our religion and its there to protect the people from evil. our religion is there to save guard us and its like the ark of nuh. why because islam can only save you nothing else. the rest is a violent ocean that will destroy you.

    so having said this this Man shaykh Nazim if we look at his statements objectviley and if we find amongst his statements clear statement of kufr and shirk then it is upon us to remind him that he must correct it. and if so he turns away we give him more naseehah advice and if he denies then we must protect the ummah from this individuals evil.

    so this the way we seek to rectify the situation with the man you mention shaykh nazim. from what i have heard many scholars from the sub-continant have done the above and due this have decided that he is not to be learned under.

    i'm sure that the students of deoband on this forum could give you a lot more insight into this scholar and what the scholars of his locality have mentioned of him

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    ...
    Last edited by wifeseeker; 20-01-15 at 03:27 PM. Reason: ancient

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Brother Assalam o alai kum,
    can u give reference for the following hadith.
    The Prophet [Peace be upon him]: said,

    1. "They [Khawarij = those outside] transferred the Qur'anic verses meant to refer to unbelievers and made them refer to believers."

    2. "What I most fear in my community is a man who interprets verses of the Qur'an out of context."

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by tabraiz View Post
    Brother Assalam o alai kum,
    can u give reference for the following hadith.
    The Prophet [Peace be upon him]: said,

    1. "They [Khawarij = those outside] transferred the Qur'anic verses meant to refer to unbelievers and made them refer to believers."

    2. "What I most fear in my community is a man who interprets verses of the Qur'an out of context."
    ohh ya.. the 1st hadith is related by Ibn Umar (RA)

    its in the copy of the Quran(with english translation) i bought from Makkah.

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by Usmi View Post
    ohh ya.. the 1st hadith is related by Ibn Umar (RA)

    its in the copy of the Quran(with english translation) i bought from Makkah.
    Brother actually i want the hadith reference.

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Jazak allahu kheir for the thread. Despite the tension in the beginning, those who were patient would have managed to get a taste of the two sides regarding the Najd hadith.

    There are many critics of 'wahabism'; a sincere muslim who see's the taqwah, strong wala' & bara' of their salafi friends, then reads what the critics have to say will naturally have questions. Or in this case a sincere muslim seeing the anger of their salafi friends, but the truth in their call will have questions. Many conflicting sources; and many atimes theory conflicting reality

    If the questioner cant get direct answers from their salafi brother/sisters themselves (for fear of being attacked by them; as they ironically feel theyre beign attacked) then who will the questioner get his answers from? The non-muslim critics, muslim reformists, and modernists?

    Teach others with good akhlaq and give the benefit of the doubt. Dont mistaken a sincere questioner for a bias attacker.

    Barak Allahu feek brother Alayhisalam for your unwavering patience throughout. Kheir insha'Allah.
    Last edited by Talibatul 'ilm; 28-03-10 at 11:38 AM.

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    .........
    Last edited by muhammad81; 28-03-10 at 11:48 AM.

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by tabraiz View Post
    Brother Assalam o alai kum,
    can u give reference for the following hadith.
    The Prophet [Peace be upon him]: said,

    1. "They [Khawarij = those outside] transferred the Qur'anic verses meant to refer to unbelievers and made them refer to believers."

    2. "What I most fear in my community is a man who interprets verses of the Qur'an out of context."
    Did the khawarij even exist in the time of nabi ?

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by muhammad81 View Post
    Did the khawarij even exist in the time of nabi ?
    No, they came shortly after. He did fortell of their apparance though in the famous hadith about Dhul-Khuwaisarah, the "godfather" of the Khawarij.
    “The entirety of faith is deed” – Imam Muhammad bin Ismâ'îl al-Bukhârî, al-Jâmi' as-Sahîh , Kitâb al-Îmân.

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
    Authu bilahi minaysh shaytani Rajeem, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

    [url=http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f20/hadiths-najd-wahabism-31284/]Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: The Prophet (s)said, “O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The People said, “And also on our NAJD.” He said, “O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen.” The people said, “O Allah’s Apostle! And also on our NAJD.” I think the third time the Prophet (s) said, “There (in NAJD) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan.”
    Salaam brother,

    Firstly I haven't read all the responses in the thread so apologies if I'm repeating a point already made. I've actually only just posted this hadith up on my blog, but in a different context (virtues of Al Sham).

    Anyways, from my limited reading here's what one commetator mentioned when quoting this hadith:

    "The place (Najd) refers to the very first major fitnah that occured regarding Prophethood, namely that of Musaylimah al Kadhdhab who claimed Prophethood".


    The story of Musaylimah is very famous, he certainly caused a lot of fitnah, and I think this seems a reasonable explanation of the hadith. Allahu alam but the strong words 'head of Satan' don't suggest this hadith is referring to someone/people claiming to be Muslim, of whatever inclination. It makes sense that such harsh words would be for a non-believer such as Musaylimah, who claimed to be a prophet and was therefore an apostate. Allahu alam whether this is the correct interpretation or not but I think it seems plausible.

    And Allah knows best.
    ربنا واجعلنا مسلمين لك ومن ذريتنا أمة مسلمة لك وأرنا مناسكنا وتب علينا إنك أنت التواب الرحيم

    Our Lord, make us Muslims submitted to You, and our descendants a Muslim community submitted to You. Show us our rites of worship and turn towards us. You are the Ever-Returning, the Most Merciful. [2: 128]

    http://livingthemuslimlife.wordpress.com/

 

 

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