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Thread: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

  1. #1
    itkills
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    Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    how do i tell my non-muslims friends that alcohol is bad. they ONLY drink in moderation (lets just say 1 glass a week) and NEVA go over the top. so how do i respond to this becasue all the articles on the net and what zakir naik says mainly talks about binge drinkers and what effetcs it has on family life and society.

    even some doctors say u shud drink, but only in moderation.

    i have told em that it says so in ur holy books that alcohol is bad, but then again in another verse it says its allowed, which shows the deficiency in their holy books.

    can sumone correct me on this: alcohol will kill over time even if u drink in moderation? if tru, then i cant find any stats and doctor reviews which suport my view. im further looking to tell em that either their holy book is correct or the doctors are.

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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    Every alcohol begins with a drink in "moderation"
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    its haram becasue there is a hadith stating what is intoxicating in large quatities is haram even in samll quantities.....

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    Senior Member Jasin Natael will become famous soon enough Jasin Natael's Avatar
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    With regard to those who say that drinking a little alcohol is good for the heart, the response to that is:
    1 – Modern research has proven that what is said about the benefits of alcohol for the heart and that it dilates the arteries, is a serious mistake. Alcohol does not dilate the arteries that bring nutrition to the heart, as was thought in the past, rather it dilates the veins that lie beneath the skin, whilst at the same time constricting the arteries, because of the accumulation of fats and cholesterol in them. This contributes to blood clots in the heart and angina, especially when it is accompanied by smoking, which contributes to congestion and narrowing of the arteries.
    Alcohol also affects the muscle of the heart itself, when it becomes poisoned and dysfunctional, especially after drinking beer that contains cobalt, as when the heart becomes inflamed as a result of exhaustion when burning alcohol.
    2 – These supposed benefits to the heart may be attained by means of things other than alcohol, the sinfulness and harmful effects of which outweigh any good it may do or benefits it may bring.
    3 – It has also been said that the benefits that alcohol is said to bring to the heart come from the fruits and other substances from which alcohol is made, such as grapes, apples, etc. Based on this, these benefits may be obtained from these foods in the forms in which Allaah has permitted them, without making alcohol from them.
    4 – We should weigh up those benefits to the heart – if they are true – against the destructive effects that alcohol has on health, which you can find out about by consulting any medical reference work that speaks of addiction to alcohol and its destructive effects on man.
    See for example: al-Idmaan al-Kuhooli by Dr Nabeel Subhi al-Taweel, published by Mu’sasat al-Risaalah, Beirut.
    Abhaath wa A’maal al-Mu’tamar al-‘Aalami al-Thaalith wa’l-Raabi’ ‘an al-Tibb al-Islami, published in Kuwait, 1405 AH, 1407 AH.
    Because some people in the past – like some of their counterparts nowadays – thought that wine had some benefits, Taariq ibn Suwayd al-Ja’fi – one of the companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – came and asked him about alcohol, and he forbade it. He said: “We make it as a remedy”. He said: “It is not a remedy, rather it is a disease.” Narrated by Muslim. This is a sign that his Prophethood was true.
    With regard to your saying that “Man has the sense to control his actions and to stop drinking before he becomes intoxicated”, this pays no attention to the ways of the accursed Shaytaan, who seeks to distance people from the Lord of the Worlds. It is also the words of one who does not know – or perhaps chooses to ignore – how a drinker’s relationship with alcohol begins until he becomes drunk or addicted.
    The Shaytaan gradually leads a person from a little to a lot, from minor to major, from sin to kufr, as much as he can, step by step. This is what the Lord of the Worlds refers to in Soorat al-Noor, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):
    “O you who believe! Follow not the footsteps of Shaytaan (Satan). And whosoever follows the footsteps of Shaytaan (Satan), then, verily, he commands Al‑Fahsha’ [i.e. to commit indecency (illegal sexual intercourse)], and Al‑Munkar [disbelief and polytheism (i.e. to do evil and wicked deeds; and to speak or to do what is forbidden in Islam)]. And had it not been for the Grace of Allaah and His Mercy on you, not one of you would ever have been pure from sins. But Allaah purifies (guides to Islam) whom He wills, and Allaah is All‑Hearer, All‑Knower”
    [al-Noor 24:21]
    The poet also referred to this when he said:
    “A glance, then a smile, then a greeting, then words, then an appointment, then a meeting.”
    Although this is clear to everyone who understands how people are and how the Shaytaan gets to them, it is more obvious in the case of alcohol and those who drink it.
    According to the eastern proverb, “In the beginning a man takes a cup of wine… then the first cup takes a second, then the cup of wine takes the man.”
    The story begins with advice from a doctor or friend to have a cup of wine to increase the appetite, or to help one relax, or it starts by joining friends in a social gathering where cups of alcohol are being passed around, or as part of a meal offered, or whatever.
    Then gradually physical and psychological bonds are formed to alcohol until it becomes part of a person’s life, and the drunkard becomes a slave to intoxication and to alcohol, and he seeks it as a sick person seeks medicine, as the poet said:
    A cup that is drunk for pleasure, and a cup that is drunk as a remedy for the first.
    In the first cup he may have found some benefit, without getting drunk, and some relaxation and pleasure without losing his mind, and the second likewise, but now he is longing for the cup of yesterday. When the body gets used to this alcoholic poison, it needs to increase the dose of alcohol time after time, in order to enjoy the relaxation and pleasure that it found in the first cup. Then the drunkard starts to drink more regularly, and his desire for alcohol grows stronger. The only guarantee against addiction is not to drink alcohol at all.
    Hence we can see the wisdom of Islam in forbidding a little or a lot of alcohol, because a little is the first step towards a lot, and a little added to a little becomes a lot.
    As the poet said: Do not think of a little as insignificant, because even the mountains are formed of small pebbles.
    With regard to your asking: why does Islam require the Muslims to keep away from alcohol and pork in order for their religious commitment to be sound? Why does it not just explain how harmful they are and let people choose for themselves?
    This is the flawed questioning of one who is trying to cheat himself. It is well known that people are not all the same in their levels of understanding of what is beneficial and what is harmful, and their levels of will power are not the same either, when it comes to choosing what is beneficial and avoiding what is harmful. The behaviour of individuals and societies cannot be controlled if things are left to each person’s choice.
    If things are left to people’s choice then the harm that results from drinking alcohol is not limited only to the one who drinks, so that he could be left to his own devices and choose whatever he wants for himself. Rather the harmful results affect everyone. The diseases that result from alcohol weaken society as a whole. The productivity of the drunkard is decreased because of his drunkenness, which affects others. The economy is affected as a result of the money spent on treating him, which also affects others. Moreover there are crimes which result from this addiction. In a World Health Organization report on violent crimes in 30 countries, including the US and the UK, it says that 86% of murders and 50% of rapes are carried out under the influence of alcohol. There are many similar, well-known statistics on such topics in various countries around the world.

  5. #5
    New Member darian has a spectacular aura about
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    When you refer to their holy books I am assuming you mean the Old and New Testatments.
    Nowhere in the Bible is drinking alcohol forbidden. Christ's first miracle was turning water into wine, and He used the imagery of wine and wineskins in many of his parables. However, DRUNKENESS is forbidden.

    Regarding the health benefits of wine, there are conflicting studies. Several longitudinal studies are still in progress and the results are not in.
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    You don't have to. If they were Muslims, then you'd be able to advice them. Since our rules don't apply to them....why would you even bother?
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

  7. #7
    itkills
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    if posted up a pic on facebook about how alcohol is satans handiwork and tagged all my non muslim friends on it, thats why im bothered, we have to give dawah

    it does say in their holy books:

    In Sikhism
    Sri Guru Granth Sahib - Page 335
    "Those who are deluded by sensual pleasures, are tempted by sexual delights and enjoy wine are corrupt."

    In Christianity
    Bible (King James Version) - Proverbs 20, verse 1
    “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.”

    In Hinduism
    Manu Smriti - Chapter 11, verse 94
    “For liquor is the defiling dirt excreted from rice, and dirt is said to be evil; therefore a priest, ruler, or commoner should not drink liquor.”


    but there are other verse which contradict that above verses, especially in the bible, i duno about the 2. so thats why im looking to tell em (wivout sounding rude n arrogant) that this a defficiency in ur holy book, either ur holy book is right or the doctors (obviously everyone would stick with their holy book) and that is why alcohol is totally banned, coz we dont get into two minds!

    but all i need is some stats or reviews by top doctors who say that even seldom drink will kill eventually.

  8. #8
    New Member darian has a spectacular aura about
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    The verse you quoted from Proverbs does not condemn the drinking of wine. It condemns OVERINDULGENCE...i.e. "whoever is deceived (led astray) by them is not wise."
    Throughout the Proverbs, drunkenness is associated with poverty (23:20-21), strife (23:29-30) and injustice (31:4-5). However, the drinking of alcohol in and of itself is not forbidden.
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    There are some positives to Alcohol, but the negative far outweighs the positive. Which is why it was forbidden for us.

  10. #10
    itkills
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    yea i was thinkin the same about that verse from the bible, but thats da one dat zakir naik used. he used another verse from the bible:

    Ephesians 5 v18
    And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit

    they both give the same message. drinkin in excess is not good!




    yes Mohammad, i know, but i need stats rather than jus words to prove to the non-muslims, thnks

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    Senior Member Archie will become famous soon enough
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    itkills has posted a good thread. Non muslims tend to use this moderation argument a lot whether it's about drinking, eating haraam, zina or gambling. We must produce evidence from Quran, Hadith, science and other religions that doing certain things even in moderation are still bad for you.

  12. #12
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    rather than look at the dangers to the individual of moderate drinking (1-2 units a week) ..... look at the harm to society. Say a society allowed moderate drinking but frowned upon excessive drinking.... well lots of people can just drink in moderation, but what about those in the society that can't? you can't prohibit excessive drinking, if you allow people to buy alcohol, you can't control how much they buy or consume. So by allowing it even in moderation, you are allowing some people to go beyond moderation and do serious damage to themselves.

    As for possible health benefits to alcohol in moderation (some docs say that red wine in small doses is good for the health) - the Qur'an states that there is some good in it, but more bad. This is bourne out by medical evidence, there is some good in alcohol, but more bad. It might benefit one person's health a little, but destroy someone else's completely. The total ban is to protect society. Even the moderate drinkers are harmed when excessive drinkers commit crimes (e.g. drunk driving) caused totally by alcohol. or when an excessive drinker in the family destroys family life for everyone. As for the health benefits in red wine, these come from a compound in grape skins, you can get the same health benefits by eating red grapes or drinking red grape juice that contains red grape skin pulp as well as the juice of the grapes.


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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhakiyya View Post
    rather than look at the dangers to the individual of moderate drinking (1-2 units a week) ..... look at the harm to society. Say a society allowed moderate drinking but frowned upon excessive drinking.... well lots of people can just drink in moderation, but what about those in the society that can't? you can't prohibit excessive drinking, if you allow people to buy alcohol, you can't control how much they buy or consume. So by allowing it even in moderation, you are allowing some people to go beyond moderation and do serious damage to themselves.

    As for possible health benefits to alcohol in moderation (some docs say that red wine in small doses is good for the health) - the Qur'an states that there is some good in it, but more bad. This is bourne out by medical evidence, there is some good in alcohol, but more bad. It might benefit one person's health a little, but destroy someone else's completely. The total ban is to protect society. Even the moderate drinkers are harmed when excessive drinkers commit crimes (e.g. drunk driving) caused totally by alcohol. or when an excessive drinker in the family destroys family life for everyone. As for the health benefits in red wine, these come from a compound in grape skins, you can get the same health benefits by eating red grapes or drinking red grape juice that contains red grape skin pulp as well as the juice of the grapes.


    exactly. Either open the flood gates (which will ruin society), or jam them shut completely.

  14. #14
    itkills
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    thanks 'dhakiyya'.

    'Jasin Natael', thats a good line

    The guy at my work says he drinks ocassionally (thats once a month)...how will that harm society or his body he said.

    i had no answer to give, apart from: u will kill ur body eventually, but slowly.

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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    "...u will kill ur body eventually, but slowly."

    Not if he drinks in moderation as he described.
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  16. #16
    itkills
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    darian...what u on about?

    binge drinking will kill ur body, no doubt, stats prove that.

    moderation drinkers....i dont know

    occasionall drinkers....i dont know

    so how do i convince these people who drink in moderation and ocassional drinkers dat drinking is bad? and if kills them or harms them, then i need proof/stats to prove this point.

  17. #17
    Unregistered567
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by itkills View Post
    thanks 'dhakiyya'.

    'Jasin Natael', thats a good line

    The guy at my work says he drinks ocassionally (thats once a month)...how will that harm society or his body he said.

    i had no answer to give, apart from: u will kill ur body eventually, but slowly.

    Well...drinking once a month won't harm him if he definitely is sure that he will never raise that amount to two drinks, three, four etc...and regarding the fact that the human body gets used to the alcohol and always wants more (if it is true, I'm not so sure about this)...but let's pretend he has so much self control that he will never exceed that amount..it is still a sin...sister dhakiyya explained it very well..

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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by itkills View Post
    darian...what u on about?

    binge drinking will kill ur body, no doubt, stats prove that.

    moderation drinkers....i dont know

    occasionall drinkers....i dont know

    so how do i convince these people who drink in moderation and ocassional drinkers dat drinking is bad? and if kills them or harms them, then i need proof/stats to prove this point.
    What am I on about?
    I agree with you that binge drinking is bad. Science agrees with you also.
    I also am unsure of the long-term effects of moderate or occasional drinking. THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE, SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH - YET- THAT MODERATE OR OCCASIONAL ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION IS INJURIOUS TO HEALTH. Get it?
    So you aren't going to be able to convince a non-Muslim to stop drinking IN MODERATION because there aren't any statistics or proof that its is harmful. You are clutching at straws and asking for evidence that doesn't exist.
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    Let us get one thing straight here...

    The reason we Muslims do not drink alcohol is not primarily because its good/bad from a health perspective.

    Rather its because we believe in Allah (swt), the Prophet (saw) and the Last Day in which every person will be judged for their actions.

    Now Allah has forbidden alcohol for the Ummah and informed us that the harm within it outweighs the good...

    They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." [2:219]


    Remember one more thing, that alcohol was so entrenched in Qureish society at the time of the Prophet (saw) that it was one of the things (like slavery) that was phased out and forbidden gradually over a period of time - until the prohibition was complete.

    So if you are giving dawah to your friends, this is one of the last issues you aught to discuss.

    First they need to know about tawheed and worshiping the Creator and King of the Universe, only then will these issues make sense.

    If you debate secular society on the issues of alcohol (or other sins) in isolation - you will be defeated - because they do not even believe in Allah or the Day of Judgement, what difference does it make to them whether they drink or do not drink?

  20. #20
    itkills
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    not bein big headed, but i know how to give dawah, iv watched ALOT of ahmed deedat (may Allah giv him Jannatul Firdaus) Aameen and zakir naik lectures

    i didnt start giving dawah from this topic, but its just started as my friends needed answers rather than me doggin the question, i need to respond.

    thanks anyway, but i hope sumone else learned from this.

  21. #21
    zzzero
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    Re: Alcohol in moderation - how is it still bad?

    explain to them its easy to get addicted and slowly it will take over thier lives. there is a chance it can interfere with work and cause them to quit because of waking up feeling forgetful and sick. right now they are drinking abit but thier tolerance increases each time. the harm out weighs the benefit.

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