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  1. #1
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    3rd and 4th Rakat

    As Salaamu Alaykum Brothers and Sisters,

    I would like to raise to your attention the potential problem I have discovered while in the States.

    During the 3rd and 4th Rakat in the masjid, I often find that I do not have enough time to finish reciting Fatihah silently. In fact in order to do so, I have to recite as if I am saying the abc's as fast as I could. This causes me to be delayed in going into ruku behind the Imam.

    When I approached the Imam on this matter, he told me that it is not required for the follower to recite Fatihah in the 3rd and 4th Rakat. He said it is in the Hanafi Madhab not to recite. Still, I told him that perhaps I am of a different madhab which requires me to recite Fatihah, in either case, if the Imam is reciting it, the recitation should at least be in a manner consistent with the deliberate nature of Rasulullah, SAWS, in which he paused after each ayah- according to ahadith as commented on by Ibn Qayyim. If the Imam recites silently in a manner consistent with that of Rasulullah, SAWS, the speed of reciting Fatihah silently or aloud should not differ, in which case those who wish to recite silently behind the Imam should have ample time as well, without making any kind of allowances.

    Alas, the matter was not resolved, and I found myself in the search for another masjid to attend.

    Does anyone have any evidence that points to this fatwa of Imam Abu Hanifah that points to his negating the necessity of reciting Fatihah for the followers in 3rd and 4th rakat? I know that Bukhari has a chapter on the fard nature of recitation of Fatihah for both Imam and Follower, and this is the opinion of many scholars, but this statement by the Imam I spoke to really upset me and was given without daleel.

    Thank you for your efforts in advance.

    Regards,

    Abu Najm at Taino
    “Ibn Khuwayz Mindadh [d. 390H] said: ‘And as for obedience to authority … we say of the rulers of our time it is not permissible to obey them, assist them, or venerate them; it IS obligatory to wage Jihad alongside them when they wage battle, [to accept] judgment from them, and the appointment of leaders, weights and measurements- establishment of that is from the standpoint of the Shari’ah’.”

  2. #2
    al-Maliki al-Madani muawiyah's Avatar
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    I strongly dont believe that Imam Abu Hanifa [ra] said that one is not required to recite the fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs. I personally dont know much of the Hanafi fiqh but my parents are strong hanafis and never have i seen them once not reciting fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs, Rather they see it very wrong to not recite. Perhaps a Hanafi brother/sister on the board would be willing to comment on this issue as to whether or not they deem it permissible not to recite the fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs.
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  3. #3
    Senile Member seven's Avatar
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    according to the ahnaaf, it is not required for the muqtadi (follower in congregational salaah) to recite any Qur'an at all behind the imaam. to recite surah al fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs of fard salaah is deemed as sunnah only.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  4. #4
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    daleel please, i got word of mouth from an 2 Imams which, no offense seven, definitely supercedes word of mouth from you.

    i too find it impossible to believe this given that there is no evidence from sunnah or QUran to support this, that i know of.

    evidence for the opinion is what i am looking for so that i can stop harbouring ill will towards those who as of now in my opinion, follow blindly this innovation in Islam, that may invalidate their salaat according to Bukhari, and other Imams of this deen.

    it would be very strange indeed for Imams of Sunnah to disagree on things that invalidate the salaat, as i was quite sure there was consensus on those things, and Bukhari states that not reciting Fatihah invalidates the salaat in any rakat, follower or leader. this is a very serious issue for us followers since it is a matter of salaat being acceptable or not.
    “Ibn Khuwayz Mindadh [d. 390H] said: ‘And as for obedience to authority … we say of the rulers of our time it is not permissible to obey them, assist them, or venerate them; it IS obligatory to wage Jihad alongside them when they wage battle, [to accept] judgment from them, and the appointment of leaders, weights and measurements- establishment of that is from the standpoint of the Shari’ah’.”

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    ~Sister Administrator~ Ammarah's Avatar
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    i learned my salat from hanafis, and i am at the point now where i would like the daleel for each thing I do in salat, just to be sure...

    so i read al fatiha in the third and fourth, no surah after... but I aint got a clue why, just that's how I was taught when i converted...
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  7. #7
    Senile Member seven's Avatar
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    i do not know the daleel, this is what i was taught. i make taqleed upon the hanafi fiqh.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  8. #8
    ~Sister Administrator~ Ammarah's Avatar
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    thing is, that's where we get stuck... we should know why we do what we do, know the daleel etc... then we can never be accused of blind following.
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  9. #9
    al-Maliki al-Madani muawiyah's Avatar
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    ok if you are looking for the daleel of this aspect of hanafi salaah as mentioned by brother seven :
    according to the ahnaaf, it is not required for the muqtadi (follower in congregational salaah) to recite any Qur'an at all behind the imaam
    Here it is :

    Jabir ibn Abdullah reports that the Prophet [saws] said , "If a person has an Imam [ meaning the person is following the Imam in prayer] then the recitation of the Imam is his recitation also[ so he doesnt need to recite anything]" [ Reported by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad]
    However Imam Ibn Katheer mentions in his tafseer , in the section dealing with surah al fatiha, vol.1, that the above hadeeth of Jabir ibn Abdullah [ra] found in Imam Ahmad's Musnad has been trasmitted through a weak chain of reporters. He also says that there are several other chains of narrators reporting the same hadeeth through jabir, but they too are weak. It is possible that Imam Abu Hanifa could have had another chain of narrators reporting the same sunnah and that chain was strong, for we all know how Imam Abu Hanifa was strict in accepting hadeeth and had placed a very strict and rigd criterion for determining the validity of ahadeeth in order to use them as a basis for a fiqhi verdict or fatwa. So it is also possible that the criterion of Imam Abu Hanifa was different from criterion of Imam Ibnu Kathir with regards to the classification of ahadeeth, and according to the examination of Imam Abu Hanifa the above narration could be authentic, even if its chain showed apparent weakness, because the hadeeth is backed up through other chain of transmitters and sources.
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  10. #10
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    So hanafi's dont recite anything?

    Even when the imaam is reciting silently?
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  11. #11
    Senile Member seven's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Consider
    So hanafi's dont recite anything?

    Even when the imaam is reciting silently?
    correct. the recitation of the imaam is enough.
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  12. #12
    Huja Usman
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    Originally posted by Ammarah
    i learned my salat from hanafis, and i am at the point now where i would like the daleel for each thing I do in salat, just to be sure...

    so i read al fatiha in the third and fourth, no surah after... but I aint got a clue why, just that's how I was taught when i converted...

    Ammarah, I found this that explains the complete daleels for every action in prayers.


    Aspects of the Salaat with evidences
    used by the Hanafi Madhhab
    [Sifatus Salaah: The Method of Salaah in the Light of Authentic Ahadith]
    Shaikh Muhammad Ilyas Faisal
    Madina al-Munawwara

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    CONTENTS
    Introduction
    Why Follow and Imam?
    Difference of Opinion
    Follow One Imam Only
    Authenticity of Hadith
    The Purpose of this Book
    About this Book
    Masnoon Method of Wudu
    Masah (passing wet fingers) Over The Nape.
    Performing Masah Over Ordinary Socks
    Prescribed Times For The Five Daily Salaah
    Masnoon Time For Zuhr Salaah
    Masnoon Time For Asar
    Masnoon Time For Fajar
    Masnoon Method Of Iqaamah
    Characteristics of the Salaah
    Covering of the Head During Salaah
    To Raise the Hands upto the Earlobes
    To Tie the Hands Beneath the Navel
    Reciting Bismillah Softly
    The Muqtadi (follower) Should Listen and Remain Silent
    The Muqtadi Must Not Recite Surah Fatiha
    The Qiraat of the Imaam suffices for the Muqtadi
    The person performing salaah individually must recite surah fatiha
    "Aameen" Must be said softly
    Raising the Hands (upto the shoulders) During Salaah
    Proof from the Practice of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)
    Proof from the Practice of the Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhum)
    Jalsatul Istiraaha - Sitting briefly After The 2nd Sajdah Of The First Or Third Rakaat
    Tashahhud
    Rasing the Index Finger During Tashahhud
    Durood Sharif
    Miscellaneous
    Raising Both the Hands and Making Dua
    Sunnats Before Salaat al-Zuhr
    Sunnats Before Salaat al-Asr
    Sunnats of Salaat al-Maghrib
    4 Rakaats Before Salaat al-Isha
    Three Rakaats of Witr
    Reciting Qunoot Before Ruku’
    Salaam Should Be Made at the End of the Witr salaah
    Two Rakaats Sunnah of Fajr
    Qadha of the Two Rakaats Sunnah of Salaat al-Fajr
    Salaat al-Tarawih During The Lifetime Of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)
    Salaat al-Tarawih During the Period of the Rightly-Guided Khulafa (TWENTY RAKAATS)
    The Takbeers Of Salaat al-Eid
    Distance Of Shar’i Safar (Travel in the Shariah)
    The Duration Of Time Pertaining To Qasr
    Manner of standing in the saff (rows of the jamaah)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    INTRODUCTION
    Very often the following question is posed to many people: "Do you follow the Deen of Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) or the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)?" "Obviously the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)," comes the instant reply. The second question is then posed: "Why then do you call yourself a Hanafi?" The person not well versed is perplexed by this question. Doubts are then created in his mind. He soon starts gradually drifting towards the abandoning of taqleed i.e. following one of the four illustrious Imaams viz. Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.), Imaam Shafi'i (R.A.), Imaam Malik (R.A.) and Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal (R.A.).
    By means of the type of questions that have been mentioned above, a deliberate attempt is made to create a misconception in the minds of the unwary — that if you are a Hanafi, you are following the Deen of Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.), NOT the Deen of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam). This is an absolute fallacy. Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.), Imaam Shafi'i (R.A.) and the other Imaams did not invent any Deen of their own. They strictly followed the one and only Deen — the Deen of Islam brought by Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam). Their followers are hence also following the same Deen — the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam).

    Why Follow an Imam?
    The question that arises here is that why then should one follow any of the four Imaams? This can be answered by posing a counter-question: "Do you know all the various laws of Deen? Are you capable of extracting and deriving the laws pertaining to wudhu, salaah, zakaah, etc. directly from the Qur'an and Hadith? Do you know which Hadith has abrogated another? Do you have the ability to reconcile between the various Ahadith which apparently contradict each other? Do you know which verses of the Qur'an are general in their application and which verses are qualified by other texts? etc., etc." If one does not have the knowledge of these aspects, then one definitely does not have the ability to derive the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith. In that case the following aayah applies directly to oneself: "Ask those of knowledge if you do not know." (43:7) Hence when we do not have the enormous amount of knowledge and expertise that is necessary to derive the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith, we have opted to follow one of those great people who had attained that distinguished mastery in this field, among whom is Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.). Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) is a Taabi'i (one who has seen a Sahabi). He attained the knowledge of Hadith from approximately 4000 ustaads. His piety was such that for 40 years he performed fajr salaah with the wudhu of Isha salaah (i.e. he did not sleep the entire night) [Tareekhul Baghdad]. His knowledge, brilliance and righteousness was such that all the great scholars of his time attested to his mastery. Thus one can be well assured that such a person is absolutely capable of deriving the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith.
    Another reason for adopting one of the Imaams as a guide is the following aayah of the Qur'an: Allah Ta'ala says: "And follow the path of those who turn to me" (31:15). In order to "turn" to Allah Ta'ala, two aspects are basic requisites — knowledge and practicing according to that knowledge. In this regard the four Imaams were in an extremely high category. Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) was regarded by various Ulama of his time as being the most knowledgeable of the people of that era (footnotes of Tahzeebut Tahzeeb vol. 1 pg. 451). Makki bin Ibrahim, who was one of the renown ustaads of Imaam Bukhari (R.A.), was a student of Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.). Imaam Abu Hanifa (R.A.) compiled a book of Hadith entitled "Kitaabul Aathaar" from among 40,000 Ahadith. Thus those who follow such a guide can be satisfied that they are strictly following the commands of Allah Ta'ala and His Rasul (sallallahu alaihi wasallam).

    Difference of Opinion
    At this point somebody may ask: "If all the Imaams deduced the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith, how is it possible for them to differ on various aspects?" In order to understand the reality of these differences, we will have to go back in history right upto the time of the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum).
    Once Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) had just returned from a battle when he ordered the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) to immediately proceed to the place of Banu Quraizah — a clan of Jews who lived on the outskirts of Madina Munawwarah. The purpose was to lay a siege upon them for having broken the pact that they had made with the Muslims. In order to impress the urgency of the matter upon the Sahaaba (R.A.), Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said to them: "None of you should perform your salaah al-Asr except in Banu Quraizah." While the Sahaaba (R.A.) were still en-route, the time of Asr arrived. Some Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) felt that they should perform their Asr immediately. They regarded the instruction of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) as actually being a command to proceed very swiftly to their destination. It did not imply that the Asr salaah could not be performed en-route. They thus performed their salaah there. Another group of Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum.) viewed the instruction literally. They therefore continued and only performed their Asr salaah after having reached Banu Quraizah. Later when Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) was informed about this, he did not rebuke either group. [Sahih Bukhaari]

    Thus we find that the difference arose from a point of interpretation. However, this difference of interpretation is only entertained when it comes from a person who has in-depth knowledge of Deen and has attained a mastery in the Qur'an and Hadith and the other related aspects. At times a difference of opinion occurs due to the different narrations that are found with regards to a particular aspect. One Imaam gives preference to one narration on the basis of various criteria while the other Imaam, in the light of his knowledge, prefers the other narration. This is basically the manner in which these differences occur. However, just as Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) did not rebuke either of the two groups in the incident mentioned above, similarly since the Imaams have attained the status of a mujtahid (one who is capable of deriving the laws directly from the Qur'an and Hadith), they will not be blame worthy even if they have erred. Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "When a haakim (ruler) passes judgement, and after having exerted his utmost effort he arrives at the correct solution, he gets a double reward. And if he errs after having exerted his utmost ability, he gets one reward." (Bukhari vol. 2 pg. 1092). Ibn al-Munzir (R.A.) while commenting on this Hadith writes that a ruler will only get this reward if he has thorough knowledge and in the light of his knowledge he passed judgement. (see footnotes of Sahih Bukhari; ibid). The four Imaams had the ability and necessary knowledge to practice ijtihaad. Thus they fall under the ambit of this Hadith.

    Following One Imaam Only
    Another point that often comes up is the following: Why is it necessary to follow one Imaam only? Why can one not follow a certain Imaam in one aspect and another Imaam in another aspect? The simple answer to this is: On what basis will one pick and choose, especially since one does not have the knowledge required to derive the laws. Thus one will not be in a position to evaluate the deductions of each Imaam. Hence it will obviously be on the basis of what suits one. This is nothing but following one's desires — regarding which Allah Ta'ala has issued severe warnings in the Qur'an. Following one's desires sometimes even leads a person to kufr. Thus great jurists of latter times, among them Shah Waliullah (R.A.), have reaffirmed that it is wajib for the masses to follow one Imaam only.
    Authenticity of Hadith
    Here one more point needs clarification with regards to the authenticity of Ahadith. The general masses are made to believe that a Hadith is only authentic if it is related in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. This is a misconception. The authenticity of the Hadith is based on its chain of narrators, irrespective of whether it appears in any one of the Sihah Sitta (the famous six authentic compilations of Hadith) or in any other compilation besides these. Imaam Muslim has written in his muqqadama (introduction to Sahih Muslim) that he has not recorded every authentic Hadith in his Sahih. Actually, according to Imaam Bukhari and imaam Muslim, there are more authentic Ahadith which are not recorded in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim than the number of narrations contained in these two books. The Hanafi madhhab is derived directly from the Qur'an and Hadith, like all the other madhhabs. However, to truly appreciate the conformity of the Hanafi madhhab with the Hadith, one will have to undertake a thorough study of the following books of Hadith: (1) Sharah Ma'anil Aathaar (2) Aljawharan Naqi (3) Nasbur Raayah (4) I'la as-Sunan (5) Bazlul Majhood (6) Fathul Mulhim (7) Awjazul Masaalik (8) Aathaarus Sunan, etc
    The Purpose of This Book
    It has already been explained above that the differences between the Imaams are based on the different narrations or the difference of interpretation. However, all the Imaams have their proofs from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Thus it is the duty of every person, while strictly following his Imaam, to respect and honour the other Imaams and their followers. Nevertheless, in this belated age there are many people who have cast aside the following of any of the four Imaams completely. Instead, while claiming to follow the Qur'an and Hadith directly, they in reality have begun to follow the interpretations of (make taqleed of!) some modern day ghair muqallid (one who has abandoned taqleed). However, coupled with this they often will be found denigrating the followers of an Imaam and classifing them as people following the Deen of Imaam Abu Hanifa and others — not the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam). They make themselves out as being the only ones who follow Hadith while all others are regarded as being contradictory to the Hadith. Many people have become entrapped in this propaganda. Thus this book sets out to explain proofs of specifically those aspects regarding which the Hanafis are generally made a target of abuse. The purpose is to simply bring to the attention of the unwary person that he is following the Deen of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam.) — not some other Deen. This book is not intended to create a climate of debate and argument. As already explained, all the Imaams have their proofs. It is hoped that by the means of this book the baseless propaganda against those who follow one of the four illustrious Imaams will be halted in its tracks.
    About This Book
    Initially a very detailed book on this topic was written in urdu by Sheik Muhammad Ilyas Faisal of Madina Munawwarah. A concise version was later published. This is the english rendering of the concise version which was translated by Moulana Abdul Qadir Vawda of Madrasah Taaleemuddeen. Some additions and alterations have been made where it was deemed appropriate. It must also be pointed out that every narration quoted in this booklet is highly authentic and of such a category which, according to the muhadditheen, can be used to derive the laws of Deen from it. May Allah Ta'ala accept this humble effort and make it a means of assisting in our salvation on the day of Qiyaamah. Aameen.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Masnoon Method Of Wudhu
    Hazrat Usman (radhiallahu anhu) once asked: "Should I not show you the manner in which Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) performed his wudhu?" Thereafter he performed wudhu in such a manner that he washed every limb thrice. [Sahih Muslim, ch. on wudhu, Hadith 23]
    Masah (passing wet fingers) Over The Nape.
    Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Whoever performs wudhu and makes masah over his nape, he will be saved from wearing a necklace (of fire) around his neck on the the day of judgement". The famous commentator of Sahih al-Bukhari, Allamah Ibn Hajar Asqalaani (R.A), writes in his book Talkheesul Habeer (vol. 1: p.92) that this narration is Sahih. Allamah Shawkani (R.A.) has also affirmed this in Naylul Awtaar (vol. 1, p.204).
    Performing Masah Over Ordinary Socks
    (i.e. cotton, woolen, polyester, etc.) It is not permissible to make masah over ordinary socks (cotton, woolen, nylon, etc. — i.e. all socks other than leather socks) in wudhu. There is no authentic narration sanctioning this practice. In the commentary of Tirmidhi, Tuhfatul Ahwazee, the famous Ahle Hadith scholar Allamah Mubarakpuri, has written that this practice of making masah on woollen, cotton, nylon socks and socks made from similar materials is not established from any authentic Hadith (vol. 1, pg.333). Many other high ranking scholars of the ghair muqallid sect (those who do not prescribe to taqleed) have refuted this practice and declared it as impermissible. (see fatawa Nazeeriah; 1:423)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Prescribed Times For The Five Daily Salaah
    Hazrat Abu Huraira (radhiallahu anhu) narrates: "When the length of your shadow (from the sun) is equal to your height then perform the zuhr salaah. When the length of your shadow becomes twice your height, perform the asr salaah. Perform the maghrib salaah when the sun has set. Perform the esha salaah before one-third (1/3) of the night passes. And perform the fajr salaah while it is still dark." [Muwatta Imaam Maalik vol.1, pg.8, Hadith 9]
    Masnoon Time For Zuhr Salaah
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) has said: "When the heat becomes very intense (after mid-day), then delay the zuhr salaah until it cools down, for verily the intensity of the heat is from the effects of Jahannam". [Sahih Muslim, Hadith 615]
    Masnoon Time For Asar
    It was the noble habit of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) that he used to delay the performance of asar so long as the sun remained white and clear. [Abu Daud; Waqtul Asr]
    Masnoon Time For Fajar
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "Perform the fajar salaah when the sky brightens at the time of dawn (i.e. before sunrise) since this is a means of earning greater reward. [Tirmidhi, Hadith 154]
    Imam Tirmidhi explains that the majority of the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) used to perform fajar salaah at this time (i.e. when the sky had brightened up).

    Masnoon Method Of Iqaamah
    Hazrat Bilal (radhiallahu anhu), Rasulullah's (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) muazzin, used to call out the words of azaan and iqaamah twice. (This Hadith is classified as Sahih — Musannaf Abdur Razzaak; see Aathaarus Sunan v.1, pg. 53)
    The muazzins of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam), Abu Mahzoora (radhiallahu anhu) and Thaubaan (radhiallahu anhu) also used to call out the azaan and iqaamah in the above mentioned manner (i.e. by saying the words twice). Allaamah Shawkani (R.A.) has affirmed the authenticity of the above narrations in Naylul Autaar, (vol.2. pg.24.)


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    Covering of the Head During Salaah
    Ibn Umar (R.A.) narrates that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) wore a white hat. (Tabarani — Allama Suyuti has classified this Hadith as highly authentic: see Sirajul Muneer; v.4, pg.112). It is written in Fataawa Thunaaiyya vol. 1, pg. 525), and in the Fatawaa of the Ahle Hadith Scholars (vol. 4 pg.291) that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) always used to keep his mubarak head covered during salaah. In the same books it is also mentioned that to intentionally remove the headgear (hat) and perform salaah bare-headed is contrary to the sunnah. (vol. 1, pg.523.)
    To Raise the Hands upto the Earlobes
    Hazrat Qataada (radhiallahu anhu) relates that he saw Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) performing his salaah. He relates that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to lift his hands until they were in line with his earlobes. [Sahih Muslim, ch. on Istihbaabur Raf’, Hadith 391]
    To Tie the Hands Beneath the Navel
    Hazrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) relates that the sunnah of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is to place one hand over the other below the navel. [Abu Daud, ch. on Wad’ul Yumna, Hadith 756]
    The above-mentioned method of tying the hands is also related by Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu).


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    Reciting Bismillah Softly
    Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) states, "I have performed congregational salaah behind Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam), Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthmaan (radhiallahu anhum) and I did not hear any one of them recite Bismillahir rahmaan nir raheem" [Sahih Muslim, Hadith 399]
    Imaam Tirmidhi (R.A.) states that the majority of the Sahaba (radhiallahu anhum) also used to recite Bismillah softly.

    The Muqtadi (follower) Should Listen and Remain Silent
    Allah Ta’aala says: "When the Qur’an is being recited then listen attentively and remain silent so that mercy will be showered upon you".
    Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud, Abu Hurairah, Abdullah Ibn Abbas and Abdullah Ibn Mughaffal (radhiallahu anhum) state that this verse of the Quran was revealed with regards to the Khutba (of Juma’ah) and with regards to Salaah. [Tafsir Ibn Kathir, vol. 1 pg. 281]

    The dictates of this verse of the Holy Qur’an is that when the Imaam recites the Qur’an aloud, the followers should listen attentively, and when he recites softly, the followers should remain silent.

    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "When you begin your congregational prayers, straighten your rows. Thereafter when the Imaam says the takbeer (i.e. when he says Allahu Akbar aloud) you must also say the takbeer. However, when he begins the recital of the Qur’an, you must remain silent. And when he recites walad daul leen then you should say Aameen". By performing your salaah in this manner Allah Ta’ala will love you." [Muslim; ch. on tashahhud]

    (A similar Hadith has been narrated by Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu)-Imaam Muslim has attested to its authenticity; ibid).

    The muqtadi Must Not Recite Surah Fatiha
    It is reported from Hazrat Ataa Ibn Yasaar (radhiallahu anhu) that he questioned Hazrat Zaid Ibn Thaabit (radhiallahu anhu) concerning reciting Qira’at with the Imaam. Hazrat Zaid (radhiallahu anhu) answered: "There is no recitation of the Glorious Qur’an in any salaah behind the Imaam". [Sahih Muslim, chapter on Sujood-ut-Tilaawah, Hadith 577]
    The Qiraat of the Imaam SUFFICES for the Muqtadi
    Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) used to repeatedly say: "Whoever performs salaah behind the Imaam, the Imaam’s qiraat suffices for him". (Sunan Baihaqi; chapter on not reciting qiraat behind the Imaam — Imaam Baihaqi (R.A.) has stated that this Hadith is Sahih.)
    The Person Performing salaah Individually Must Recite Surah Fatiha, Not the Muqtadi
    Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) was asked: "Must the muqtadi recite behind the Imam?" He replied that the qiraat of the Imaam is sufficient for the muqtadi. But if he performs salaah individually, then he must recite qiraat. It was the practice of Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) also that he would not recite surah fatiha behind the Imam. (In Aathaarus Sunan (Vol. 1 pg.89) this Hadith has been classified as sahih).
    Hazrat Jaabir (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the one who does not recite sura fatiha even in one rakaat, his salaah is not valid. However, if he is behind an Imam he must not recite surah fatiha. (This Hadith has been classified as hasan — Tirmizi - ch. on not reciting behind the Imaam). It is on the basis of this Hadith that Imaam Tirmidhi (R.A.) has narrated from Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (R.A.) [who was the teacher of the ustaad of Imaam Bukhari (R.A.)] that the narration "Whoever does not recite surah fatiha his salaah is not complete" refers to one who performs his salaah alone. It does not include the muqtadi (Jami’ Tirmidhi, ibid). In the above Hadith it is very clearly mentioned that the muqtadi must not recite sura fatiha.

    "Aameen" Must be said softly
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "Do not hasten before the Imaam! When he says the takbeer, then you should do the same. When he recites Walad da ul leen, then you should say Aameen. When he makes ruku’ then you should make ruku’. And when he says sami’-Allahu liman hamidah then you should say Allahumma Rabbana wa lakal hamd". [Sahih Muslim, Hadith 415]
    With regards to the saying of Aameen this narration is very clear and explicit. Like in the case where the Imaam says Allahu Akbar and sami’-Allahu liman hamidah aloud, but all the followers say "Allahu Akbar"and "Rabbana lakal hamd" softly. In the same manner when the Imaam recites "walad daul leen" aloud, the followers should say Aameen softly. It is also reported from Abu Ma’mar that Umar (radhiallahu anhu) used to say: "The Imaam will recite four things softly-Ta’awwuz, Bismillah, Aameen and Rabbana Lakalhamd" (Aini Vol. 1 pg. 620)


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    Raising the Hands (upto the shoulders) During Salaah
    Hazrat Jaabir Ibn Samurah (radhiallahu anhu) relates that once Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) came out of his house towards us and said: "Why is it that I see you all raising your hands as though they are the tails of stubborn horses. Be tranquil in salaah". [Sahih Muslim, Hadith 430]
    This hadith alone makes it clear that those narrations which mention the raising of the hands (during the salaah) were narrated prior to the prohibition of this practice.

    Proof from the PRACTICE of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)
    Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud (radhiallahu anhu) said: "Shall I not show you the manner in which Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) performed his salaah?" Thereafter he performed the salaah but he did not raise his hands except at the beginning (of his salaah). [Tirmidhi, Hadith no.257] This Hadith is classified Hasan. Ibn Hazm (R.A.) has declared it as sahih. Ahmed Shakir (R.A.) has also declared it as sahih.
    Proof from the Practice of the Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhum)
    It is related that Hazrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) used to raise his hands at the time of the first Takbeer (during his salaah). Thereafter he did not raise them. [Sunanal Bayhaqi]
    (The commentator of Bukhari Shareef, Allaama Ibn Hajar, Allaama Zayla'i and Allaama ‘Aini (R.A.) have said that this narration and its chain of narrators is Sahih)

    One should take note of the fact that the practice of Hazrat Umar, the remaining Khulafa-e-Raashideen, Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud and many more Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhu) was the same, that they only raised their hands at the time of the first takbeer. Imaam Tirmidhi (R.A.) also states that this was the practice of a great number of the Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhum).



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    Jalsatul Istiraaha - Sitting briefly After The 2nd Sajdah Of The First Or Third Rakaat
    In a narration from the ibn Sahl (radhiallahu anhu) it is mentioned that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said the takbeer and simultaneously went into sajdah. Then he said the takbeer and simultaneously stood up erect without sitting. [Abu Daud, Hadith no. 966]
    Imaam Bayhaqi (R.A.) has recorded in his Sunan that this was the practice of Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud (radhiallahu anhu). Allaama Zayla'i (R.A.) has recorded in Nasabur Raayah that the same procedure was the practice of Hazrat Umar, Ali, Abdullah Ibn Zubeir and Abdullah Ibn Abbaas (radhiallahu anhu). (vol. 1, pg. 289)

    Likewise Allaamah Turkumaani has recorded in Jauharun Naqi regarding several Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) that it was their practice that after the first and third rakaat they would stand up straight from sajdah without sitting. (vol. 1, pg. 125)

    Tashahhud
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "When you sit during salaah (for Qa’dah Akheerah, the last Qa’dah) read the following:-
    "All oral, physical and monetary worship is due to Allah alone. Salutations to you ‘O Nabi, and the mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you. Peace be upon us and upon all the righteous servants of Allah. I bear witness that none is worthy of worship besides Allah and that Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is his servant and messenger.)

    Thereafter he would choose from the supplications whatever he wished."
    [Sahih Muslim, Hadith no. 402; Sahih Bukhari, chapter on Tashahhud].

    Rasing the Index Finger During Tashahhud
    It is narrated that when Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to sit down to supplicate, (to recite tashahhud) he used to place his right hand on his right thigh and his left hand on his left thigh. He would indicate at the time of reciting the shahadah by raising his index finger. He would also join the ends of his thumb and middle finger (thereby forming a circle). [Sahih Muslim, chapter on the description of sitting-Hadith no.579]
    Durood Sharif
    The Sahaabah-e-Kiraam (radhiallahu anhum) inquired from Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) as to which durood should they recite (during salaah). Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) replied: "Recite the following durood-
    (trans: O Allah shower your mercy upon Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) and the family of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) as you have showered your mercy upon Ibrahim (A.S.) and the family of Ibrahim (A.S.). Behold, you are Praiseworthy, Glorious. O Allah shower your blessings upon Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) and the family of Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) as you have showered your blessings upon Ibrahim (A.S.) and the family of Ibrahim (A.S.). Behold, you are Praiseworthy, Glorious.


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    Raising Both the Hands and Making Dua
    It is narrated that Abdullah Ibn Zubair (radhiallahu anhu) saw a man raising his hands and making dua before completing his salah. When the person had completed his salaah, Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Zubair (radhiallahu anhu) went up to him and said: "Verily, Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to only raise his hands and make dua after completing his salaah" (the narrators of this Hadith are all trustworthy — Majmauz Zawaaid, vol. 1, pg. 169).
    It is also mentioned in the Fataawa of Ahle Hadith (vol. 1, pg.190) as well as in Fataawa Nazeeriyyaa (vol. 1, pg. 566) that in the light of the Sharia, the dua after salaah is an authentically established practice and it is mustahab to do so.


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    Sunnats BEFORE Salaat al-Zuhr
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) has said: "Whoever performs four rakaats before the fardh of zuhr and four rakaats after it, Allah Ta’aala will make him haraam upon the fire of Jahannam". [Tirmidhi, Hadith no. 428]
    Sunnats BEFORE Salaat al-Asr
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) has said: "May Allah show mercy upon that person who performs four rakaats before the fardh of asr". [Tirmidhi, chapter on the narrations regarding the four rakaats, Hadith no. 430]
    Sunnats of Salaat al-Maghrib
    Hazrat Abu Ma’mar (radhiallahu anhu) has said that the Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhum) used to consider 4 rakaats after the Fardh of maghrib to be mustahab. [Qiyaamul-Layl of Marwazi pg.58]
    4 Rakaats Before Salaat al-Isha
    Hazrat Sa’eed Ibn Jubair (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhum) used to regard the performing of four rakaats before the fardh of isha as mustahab. [ibid. pg.58]
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    Three Rakaats of Witr
    Hazrat A’yesha (radhiallahu anha) is reported to have said (with regards to the tahajjud salaah of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam): "He (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never used to perform more than eleven rakaats, whether in Ramadhan or out of Ramadhaan. Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) would perform long rakaats in two units of four rakaats each with such excellence and devotion which cannot be described. Thereafter he would perform three rakaats of witr salaah". [Sahih Muslim, chapter on salaatul layl, Hadith 738]
    Reciting Qunoot Before Ruku’
    Hazrat Aasim (radhiallahu anhu) narrates: "I inquired from Hazrat Anas Ibn Malik (radhiallahu anhu) concerning the qunoot of witr. He affirmed its occurrence in the witr salaah. Then I asked whether it should be recited before the ruku or after it. He replied: "It should be recited before the ruku". I then informed him of a certain person who had heard him (Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) saying that it should be recited after ruku. Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) most vehemently denied this". Furthermore he said: "Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) recited the qunoot after the ruku for only one month.(referring to the qunootun naazilah)" [Sahih Bukhari, chapter on qunoot before ruku].
    In Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah it is mentioned that for this very reason the Sahaaba-e-Kiraam (radhiallahu anhum) used to recite the qunoot before ruku.

    Allaama Ibn Hajar (R.A.) writes in his commentary on Bukhari, Fath al-Bari that after analysing all these narrations we learn that it was the normal practice to recite the qunoot before ruku.
    However on certain occasions (such as the befalling of a calamity, etc.) the qunoot would be recited after ruku. (vol. 1, pg. 291)

    Salaam Should Be Made at the End of the Witr salaah
    Hazrat A’yesha (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to perform three rakaats witr without making salaam in between (i.e. after two rakaats.) [Zadul Ma’aad, pg.110]
    Allama Ibn Hajar (R.A.) writes in Fathul Baari, the commentary on Sahih Bukhari, that Hazrat Ubay Ibn Ka’b, Hazrat Umar, Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud and Anas Ibn Malik (radhiallahu anhum) used to make salaam at the end of three rakaats witr, not in between. (vol. 1, pg. 291)


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    Two Rakaats Sunnah of Fajr
    It is narrated that once Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud (radhiallahu anhu) reached the masjid whilst the Imaam was leading the salaah of fajr with the congregation. Hence, since he had not as yet performed the two rakaats sunnah of fajr, he stood behind one of the pillars of the masjid and performed it (while the jama’ah was in progress). Thereafter he joined the jamaat. [Majmauz-Zawaaid, vol. 1, pg. 75]
    This was also the practice of Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Abu Dardaa and Uthmaan (radhiallahu anhum).

    Qadha of the Two Rakaats Sunnah of Salaat al-Fajr
    Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "Whoever did not perform the sunnah of fajr should perform it after the sun rises". [Tirmidhi, Hadith no. 423]
    In the Muwwatta of Imaam Malik (R.A.) it is narrated that this was also the practice of Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu).


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    Salaat al-Tarawih During The Lifetime Of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam)
    It is narrated that one night during Ramadhaan Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) performed salaat al-tarawih in the masjid. A group of Sahaabah joined him during his salaah. The following night the same happened as the previous night except that the number of followers had increased considerably. Hence on the third (or fourth) night Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) did not come out to the masjid to perform salaat al-tarawih with the people. The following morning he said to them: "Indeed I had seen your eagerness (to perform the tarawih behind me), but for the fear that this salaah will be made fardh (compulsory) upon you during Ramadhaan, I did not come out to join you in the tarawih". [Muslim, Hadith no.761]
    Salaat al-Tarawih During the Period of the Rightly-Guided Khulafa (TWENTY RAKAATS)
    Hazrat Yazeed Ibn Ruman (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that during the khilaafah of Hazrat Umar (radhiallahu anhu) the Sahaabah used to perform twenty rakaats tarawih and three rakaats witr salaah (with jamaat). [Muwwatta Imaam Maalik, chapter concerning standing in salaah during Ramadhaan]
    During the khilafah of Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu) tarawih with jamaat was not in vogue. The practice of performing twenty rakaats with jamaat in every night of Ramadhaan and the completion of the entire Quraan began only during the the khilaafat of Hazrat Umar (radhiallahu anhu). All the Sahaabah present had agreed upon this practice. From then onwards including the Khilafah of both Hazrat Uthmaan and Hazrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) upto this day the Muslim Ummah (at large) has followed this practice.

    Twenty rakaats tarawih is also performed in both the Masjids of Makkah and Madinah upto the present time. However, it is tragic that in recent times a group of people have conflicted with the consensus of the Sahaabah (radhiallahu anhum) and the rest of the Ummah with regards to the number of rakaats in Tarawih salaah.


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    The Takbeers Of Salaat al-Eid
    Hazrat Abu Musa Ash’ari (radhiallahu anhu) was asked regarding the number of takbeers that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to say in both the Eid salaahs. He replied: "He (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) used to say four takbeers (in every rakaat), in the same way as he used to say the takbeers in the salaat al-Janaaza". Hazrat Hudhaifa (radhiallahu anhu) also confirmed this practice of Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam). [Abu Dawud, Hadith no. 1153]
    Imaam Tirmidhi (R.A.) has also recorded several narrations of similar meaning from Abdullah Ibn Mas'ud and other Sahaabah-e-Kiraam (radhiallahu anhum).


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    Distance Of Shar’i Safar (Travel in the Shariah)
    It is narrated that Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar and Abdullah Ibn Abbas (radhiallahu anhu) would perform Qasr salaah and that they would also make iftaar (i.e. they would not fast) whenever they travelled the distance of four burud. Four burud is sixteen farsakh i.e. 48 miles. [Bukhari, chapter regarding the distance upon which one will perform Qasr salaah].
    It is mentioned in Fataawa Thunaiyya that the majority of the Muhadditheen say that 48 miles is the correct distance of Shar’i travel (safar). Nine miles is incorrect. (vol.1, pg.482)

    The Duration Of Time Pertaining To Qasr
    Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) stated that whoever intends to stopover at any place along his journey for fifteen days (or more), he should perform his salaah fully (i.e. he should not perform Qasr salaah.) [Tirmidhi, Hadith no. 548]
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    Manner of standing in the saff (rows of the jamaah)
    It is established from several ahadith that the saff (row) should be absolutely straight and no gaps should be left between the musallis (worshippers). However, some people insist on spreading their feet and standing in such a manner that their ankles touch the ankles of their neighbour. What is the reality of standing in this fashion?
    Those who stand in this way base their practice upon a hadith narrated by Nu’maan bin Basheer (radhiallahu anhu). He says: "Once Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) faced us and said: "Straighten your rows". He repeated this thrice. He then said: "By Allah, you must most certainly straighten your rows or else Allah Ta’ala will disunite your hearts". Hazrat Nu’maan bin Basheer (radhiallahu anhu) says: "I then saw the people joining together their shoulders and ankles". [Abu Dawood, Sahih ibn Khuzaima]

    The concluding statement of Hazrat Nu’maan (radhiallahu anhu) is also reported in Sahih Bukhari.

    However, upon analysing this hadith, several points come to light: Firstly, Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never commanded the joining of the ankles. No hadith has yet been found wherein Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) himself instructed the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhu) to join their ankles. The Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhu) had themselves adopted this manner in order to fulfil the command of straightening the saff. Secondly, this hadith clearly mentions that Nu’maan bin Basheer (radhiallahu anhu) saw the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhu) doing this PRIOR to the commencement of the salaah. There is no mention of this position being maintained even after the salaah had commenced. Therefore we find that great muhadditheen such as Hafiz ibn Hajar (R.A.) and Allama Shawkani (R.A.) have regarded this as an extreme measure which was occasionally adopted by the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhu) to ensure that the saff is straight.

    In fact, a hadith of Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) makes it absolutely clear that this practice was merely a measure adopted BEFORE the salaah to ensure the straightening of the saff. He says: "If I had to do that (join the ankles) with anyone of them (the taabi’een) today, they would run like wild mules". [Fath al-Bari, vol.2, pg.176]

    This simply means that the taabi’een severely disliked that anybody should join their ankles with them. Several points are understood from this: Firstly, Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) had stopped doing this completely. Had this been a sunnah and not just a manner of ensuring that the saff was straight, it is impossible that Hazrat Anas (radhiallahu anhu) would have left it out merely upon somebody disliking it.

    Secondly, the taabi’een would never have disliked it if they had observed many of the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) continuously practicing upon this. It was only due to the fact that they had not generally observed the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) adopting this procedure that they disliked it. Hence this makes it crystal clear that the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) had only occasionally adopted this practice to ensure the straightening of the saff. It was not a sunnah in itself, otherwise they would never have left it out.

    It has already been made clear that Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) never himself instructed the joining of the ankles, nor is there any mention of the Sahaaba (radhiallahu anhum) having maintained this position even INsalaah. However, if for a moment we do accept that this position must be adopted during the course of the salaah as well, the question is: In which posture of salaah must this position be maintained? Must it be maintained during qiyaam, ruku, sajdah and qa’dah or in only some of these postures? If one says that the ankles should be joined only in the qiyaam posture, on what basis were the other postures excluded? If it is argued that it is difficult to do so in ruku and sajdah, the same could be said for qiyaam, since to stand with one’s feet spread apart is naturally awkward and hence it presents a certain amount of difficulty and uneasiness for many people. In short, this practice is not established as a sunnah of salaah. It was merely adopted initially by the Sahaaba (radiallahu anhum) BEFORE the commencement of salaah to ensure that the rows are straight.

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    Also if you want to learn the hanafi fiqh read the Mukhtasar al Quduri which you can also find online at:
    http://www.wponline.org/vil/Books/Qu...ar/default.htm
    Please Re-update your Signature

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    what about hanbali fiqh? any books online for that?
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    I referred to two websites. One is Suheil Laher's webpage, where he has presented the Risala of Imam Quduri (an Imam just after the era of the salaf who has 8 links between him and Imam Abu Hanifah in scholarly isnad). The other is Sunni Path, where Sidi Faraz Rabbani, Sidi Hamza Karamali, and others answer questions about the Hanafi madhhab and Shafi`i madhhab, respectively. In each case I have exerpted material that is essential to understanding this issue thoroughly, so everyone is encouraged to click the links and read the entire texts there.
    -Abbie

    http://webpages.marshall.edu/~laher1/salahQ.html
    3.2 The Rudiments of Salah
    The essentials of salah are six:
    ...
    3. Recitation.
    The minimum recitation which suffices in salah, according to Abu Hanifah, is that which is covered by the word "Qur’an." Abu Yusuf and Muhammad said : No less than three short verses or one long verse is sufficient.
    Recitation is obligatory in the first two rak`ah [of fard], but one has the choice in the last two : if one wishes, he can recite, if he wishes he can make tasbih, and if he wishes he can remain silent. Recitation is oblgatory in every rak`ah of nafl, and in all [rak`ahs] of witr.

    ...

    3.3 The Obligations (Wajib) of Salah
    1. Recitation of al-Fatihah in every rak`ah
    2. Adding a surah (or three verses) in the first two rak`ahs of fard, and in every rak`ah of witr and nafl.


    http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Q...a00001927.aspx
    ...
    The spoken actions of the prayer are:
    a) Takbirs, dhikrs, and supplications;
    b) Qur’anic recitation.

    When praying alone or leading others, one does both.

    When praying behind someone, one does all the takbirs, dhikrs, and supplications of the prayer. However, one does not recite the Qur’an [not even the Fatiha] behind the imam.
    ...
    “Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad are unanimous in their opinion regarding this issue. They state that it is forbidden for the follower to recite any portion of the Holy Qur’an, whether it be Surat al-Fatiha or any other verse, in both the silent and loud prayers behind the imam. Whatever has been related about Imam Muhammad saying that it is more preferable for the follower to recite in the silent prayers is a weak report. Ibn al-Humam has called this an erroneous accusation on Imam Muhammad. He states, “The truth is that Imam Muhammad’s opinion is the same as that of Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Abu Yusuf.” Imam Muhammad has clearly stated his view to be the same as that of Imam Abu Hanifa and Abu Yusuf in his Muwatta and Kitab al-athar. [Fath al-Mulhim 2:20] {brief extracts from Fiqh al-Imam}
    ...
    And Allah alone gives success.
    Wassalam,
    Faraz Rabbani

    Brother Najm, you asked for a dalil. In that same page, Sidi Faraz pointed out a quote from Imam ibn `Abidin concerning dalils, for whom they are intended in the derivation of fiqh, and how they are to be used.

    ----
    Allama Ibn Abidin pointed out in his Sharh Uqud Rasm al-Mufti:
    [color=blue]"Understanding evidences (dalil) is only (truly) possible for someone at the level of ijtihad[/blue], for it depends on knowing that the evidence is free of that which opposes it, which depends on having complete awareness of the primary sources, which is not possible for other than a mujtahid. As for merely knowing that a given mujtahid took a given ruling from a given set of evidences, it is of little true consequence..." (Sharh Uqud Rasm al-Mufti, in Rasa'il Ibn Abidin, 1: 30)
    ----

    From my understanding, it is for us to respect the scholar who knows more than we do, because Allah tells us in the Qur'an to ask those who know when we do not know (16:43 and 21:7).
    -Abbie

    Originally posted by muawiyah
    I strongly dont believe that Imam Abu Hanifa [ra] said that one is not required to recite the fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs. I personally dont know much of the Hanafi fiqh but my parents are strong hanafis and never have i seen them once not reciting fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs, Rather they see it very wrong to not recite. Perhaps a Hanafi brother/sister on the board would be willing to comment on this issue as to whether or not they deem it permissible not to recite the fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs.

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    I am not yet aware of a site that limits itself strictly to Hanbali fiqh and usul. However, I do know of an emailing list where one can read archived Q&A's and submit questions to a knowledgeable student of Islamic fiqh. It is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hanbali .
    -Abbie

    Originally posted by Consider
    what about hanbali fiqh? any books online for that?

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    al-Maliki al-Madani muawiyah's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Consider
    what about hanbali fiqh? any books online for that?
    try this link in English as it provides articles discussing issues of jurisprudence like salaah, taharah, marriage etc. from a Hanbali prespective:
    http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/h/
    But keep in mind though that the above link does not cover all aspects of the Hanbali fiqh. there are classical books on Hanbali fiqh online covering all what is need to know about the Hanbali prespectives but they are only in Arabic. for example you can read Ibnu Qudamah al Maqdisi's work "al Mughni" online by clicking here:
    http://www.al-eman.com/feqh/viewtoc.asp?BID=308

    and you can read Ibn Taiymiyya's work "Majmoo al Fatawaa" by clicking here:

    http://www.al-eman.com/feqh/viewtoc.asp?BID=252

    and also Ibn Qaem al Jauwzi's "Elaam al Moqineen" by clicking here:

    http://www.alwaraq.com/Cgi-bin/DocCg...=1062517335807

    these three constitute the primary and basic sources from which the Hanbali fiqh is derived.
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    sorry in advance....

    i dont find any evidences in these daleels that show either the grade or explicit meaning of it being permissable not to recite Fatihah in any rakat.

    yes, some of the ahadith state that the recitation of the Imam suffices for the follower, this i already know and fully accept, but the meaning of which is muddled in the opinions given. When the imam recites aloud, then his recitation- which according to sunnah, is aloud or by moving the lips- is sufficient, and this is in the first two rakat. Proof of this is in the early days of jumah, when the companions, RA, used to recite aloud at the same time as Rasulullah,SAWS, and after they were ordered not to compete with Rasulullah,SAWS, or the Imam. I believe that it was based on this order that the ahadith speak about not reciting behind the Imam, but has been mistaken to mean for the 3rd and 4th rakat as well.

    no one is saying to recite Fatihah behind the Imam, and this is the error that i see generally in the daleel given. but what respected scholars say is the one must silently complete Fatihah in the 3rd and 4th rakat, not recite it. i move my lips in the 3rd and 4th rakat, but i do not utter a sound. However, i only translate the meaning in my mind during the 1st and 2nd rakat behind the Imam.

    On the one hand you have rigorously authenticated ahadith that state in no uncertian terms, the salat that does not have Fatihah is invalidated. It does not distinguish between follower or Imam. In the other you have daleel which points to a meaning but in text only states that there is no recitation behind the Imam, which is not what I am arguing. I too agree there is no recitation for the follower behind the Imam, however this does not absolve us from our obligation to silently hold the Fatihah when there is no recitation by the Imam in the 3rd and 4th rakat.

    i really think that this subject has gotten very twisted through the ages, through the fault of no one person.

    i would just like to pass the warning on to others, that it is far better to do a deed which guarantees the credit for an act of worship, than to refrain from a part of it which could invalidate it.

    i am definitely not a scholar, and i only wish to raise the subject in order to gain the daleel. the daleel was given to me, and still i wanted to raise issues with the daleel only to point out its inconclusiveness with regards to meaning, and conclusiveness with regards to opinion.

    Blind Taqlid Hanafis, do your thang, I know you will, all others please be careful with this and other topics and may Allah AWJ guide us all to the greatest success.
    “Ibn Khuwayz Mindadh [d. 390H] said: ‘And as for obedience to authority … we say of the rulers of our time it is not permissible to obey them, assist them, or venerate them; it IS obligatory to wage Jihad alongside them when they wage battle, [to accept] judgment from them, and the appointment of leaders, weights and measurements- establishment of that is from the standpoint of the Shari’ah’.”

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    you're making out as if making taqleed is wrong
    Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

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    Originally posted by seven
    correct. the recitation of the imaam is enough.

    If you are not reciting with him, how do you keep your mind from wandering off and losing concentration in salat??



    Peace
    3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not draw apart from one another. And remember the blessings which God has bestowed upon you: how, when you were enemies, He brought your hearts together, so that through His blessing you became brethren; and [how, when] you were on the brink of a fiery abyss. He saved you from it. In this way God makes clear His messages unto you, so that you might find guidance.

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    Brother Seven,

    I am sorry if you took it that way. I was only referring to Blind Taqlid Hanafis because that is how you referred to yourself in your post above, and I meant to speak regarding any one who follow taqlid, as I certainly do.

    do your thang, meant i am with you in that, and its all good, so please do not think that i am against you.

    thank you for being open about your belief, and please dont think that i meant to hurt you or denigrate your acts with regard to taqlid as i believe you only stand to be rewarded for your trust and obedience with regards to the respected scholars of this ummah.

    As Salaamu Alayka
    “Ibn Khuwayz Mindadh [d. 390H] said: ‘And as for obedience to authority … we say of the rulers of our time it is not permissible to obey them, assist them, or venerate them; it IS obligatory to wage Jihad alongside them when they wage battle, [to accept] judgment from them, and the appointment of leaders, weights and measurements- establishment of that is from the standpoint of the Shari’ah’.”

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    Book 004, Number 0778:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One is not credited with having observed the prayer without the recitation (of al-Fatiha). So said Abu Huraira: (The prayer in which) the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) recited in a loud voice, we also recited that loudly for you (and the prayer in which) he recited inwardly we also recited inwardly for you (to give you a practical example of the prayer of the Holy Prophet).

    Book 004, Number 0775:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If anyone observes prayer in which he does not recite Umm al-Qur'an, It is deficient [he said this three times] and not complete. It was said to Abu Huraira: At times we are behind the Imam. He said: Recite it inwardly, for he had heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) declare that Allah the Exalted had said: I have divided the prayer into two halves between Me and My servant, and My servant will receive what he asks. When the servant says: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the universe, Allah the Most High says: My servant has praised Me. And when he (the servant) says: The Most Compassionate, the Merciful, Allah the Most High says: My servant has lauded Me. And when he (the servant) says: Master of the Day of judg- ment, He remarks: My servant has glorified Me. and sometimes He would say: My servant entrusted (his affairs) to Me. And when he (the worshipper) says: Thee do we worship and of Thee do we ask help, He (Allah) says: This is between Me and My servant, and My servant will receive what he asks for. Then, when he (the worshipper) says: Guide us to the straight path, the path of those to whom Thou hast been Gracious not of those who have incurred Thy displeasure, nor of those who have gone astray, He (Allah) says: This is for My servant, and My servant will receive what he asks for. Sufyan said: 'Ala b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. Ya'qub narrated it to me when I went to him and he was confined to his home on account of illness, and I asked him about it.
    “Ibn Khuwayz Mindadh [d. 390H] said: ‘And as for obedience to authority … we say of the rulers of our time it is not permissible to obey them, assist them, or venerate them; it IS obligatory to wage Jihad alongside them when they wage battle, [to accept] judgment from them, and the appointment of leaders, weights and measurements- establishment of that is from the standpoint of the Shari’ah’.”

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    I'm Hanefi, or considered to be, and I recite al-Fatiha and the surahs after the Imam, as well as the al-Fatiha on the 3rd and 4th rakat. It helps me concentrate better and that's what's most important.

    Another thing - if AbuNajm couldn't complete his Fatiha, regardless whether he's supposed to say it or not, how could the Imam then do it? Unfortunately, nowadays, many Imams practice what the Prophet referred to as "pecking," not Salah.
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    precisely one of my points Sister Naida,

    the speed with which the silent rakat are performed leads me to conclude that the Imams recitation is not sufficient as well. How can recitation of Umm al Quran take less than 10 seconds? granted the faults of the Imam, as long as they are within acceptable limits, do not fall upon the follower, but salaat is just one area that i refuse to compromise on with regards to what is absolutely obligatory such as Fatihah.

    Regardless of the madhab, if the IMam is not allowing enough time for followers to straighten there backs in ruku or sujud, which are obligatory acts that if not done invalidate the salat according to authentic ahadith reported in ibn Qayyims Zad ul Mad, then the Imam is causing the salat of the followers to be lost. there are some things that just dont fall on the Imam if we choose to remain ignorant about the necessities of salaat, they fall on us.

    the salaat takes time to perform, there is no way around that. with everyone in the cities always rushing around and counting the minutes, the salaat in the masjid should be something that interrupts this pace and causes the follower to slow down and contemplate in the middle of the rat race. Imams in the time of Rasulullah, SAWS, were held liable by the followers, such is the case with Abullah ibn Masud, RA, who was leading the isha salaat after praying with Rasulullah, SAWS. when the people complained about the salat being to long, Rasulullah, SAWS, told the Imam, do not make good deeds as a trial for the believers. and some companions, RA, described Rasulullah, SAWs, more angry than they ever saw him upon hearing the news of the lengthy salaat.

    of course you will never have a follower complain because of shortness of the salaat. but call me the teachers pet asking 'what about the homework you assigned, arent you going to collect it?' i have asked imams to slow the salaat down, and reinject sunnahs, while one heeded the advice, another yelled at me and told me that i am a follower and have no right to say anything, hes a medina university graduate and knows the sunnah better than me, etc. tell you one thing, i never prayed behind that imam again, and was ready to fight him on account of yelling at me- my own mama dont yell at me. but his position kept me from behaving against him, and my fear of Allah AWJ.

    this is not an issue of following madhab, but of following the commands of Rasulullah,SAWS. if you read the above ahadith, you will see that silently reciting Fatihah behind the IMam was the practice of the Sahabah, RA, in no uncertain terms. the opinions of scholars, however respected they are, do not have precedence over the example of those who were better than them. and with something so serious as the acceptability of salaat, we should not take ANY chances with 'opinions' or 'orders' or 'examples' other than Rasulullah,SAWS, and his Companions, RA.
    “Ibn Khuwayz Mindadh [d. 390H] said: ‘And as for obedience to authority … we say of the rulers of our time it is not permissible to obey them, assist them, or venerate them; it IS obligatory to wage Jihad alongside them when they wage battle, [to accept] judgment from them, and the appointment of leaders, weights and measurements- establishment of that is from the standpoint of the Shari’ah’.”

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Book 004, Number 0778:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One is not credited with having observed the prayer without the recitation (of al-Fatiha). .....................

    Book 004, Number 0775:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If anyone observes prayer in which he does not recite Umm al-Qur'an, It is deficient [he said this three times] and not complete..............................
    Did the Prophet at anytime say that anyone who calls himself a Hanafi will be exempt from this?
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post

    • .................................. silently reciting Fatihah behind the IMam was the practice of the Sahabah, RA, in no uncertain terms.
    • the opinions of scholars, however respected they are, do not have precedence over the example of those who were better than them. and
    • with something so serious as the acceptability of salaat, we should not take ANY chances with 'opinions' or 'orders' or 'examples' other than Rasulullah,SAWS, and his Companions, RA.....
    .
    Jazakallahu khair.
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    As Salaamu Alaykum Brothers and Sisters,

    I would like to raise to your attention the potential problem I have discovered while in the States.

    During the 3rd and 4th Rakat in the masjid, I often find that I do not have enough time to finish reciting Fatihah silently. In fact in order to do so, I have to recite as if I am saying the abc's as fast as I could. This causes me to be delayed in going into ruku behind the Imam.

    When I approached the Imam on this matter, he told me that it is not required for the follower to recite Fatihah in the 3rd and 4th Rakat. He said it is in the Hanafi Madhab not to recite. Still, I told him that perhaps I am of a different madhab which requires me to recite Fatihah, in either case, if the Imam is reciting it, the recitation should at least be in a manner consistent with the deliberate nature of Rasulullah, SAWS, in which he paused after each ayah- according to ahadith as commented on by Ibn Qayyim. If the Imam recites silently in a manner consistent with that of Rasulullah, SAWS, the speed of reciting Fatihah silently or aloud should not differ, in which case those who wish to recite silently behind the Imam should have ample time as well, without making any kind of allowances.

    Alas, the matter was not resolved, and I found myself in the search for another masjid to attend.

    Does anyone have any evidence that points to this fatwa of Imam Abu Hanifah that points to his negating the necessity of reciting Fatihah for the followers in 3rd and 4th rakat? I know that Bukhari has a chapter on the fard nature of recitation of Fatihah for both Imam and Follower, and this is the opinion of many scholars, but this statement by the Imam I spoke to really upset me and was given without daleel.

    Thank you for your efforts in advance.

    Regards,

    Abu Najm at Taino

    Evidence here:

    http://www.mediafire.com/?0euonqdmidz

    http://www.mediafire.com/?ojyjhyd05y1

    http://www.mediafire.com/?dtmuy2fmmn2


    Sorry it could've been scanned better..

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by muawiyah View Post
    I strongly dont believe that Imam Abu Hanifa [ra] said that one is not required to recite the fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs. I personally dont know much of the Hanafi fiqh but my parents are strong hanafis and never have i seen them once not reciting fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs, Rather they see it very wrong to not recite. Perhaps a Hanafi brother/sister on the board would be willing to comment on this issue as to whether or not they deem it permissible not to recite the fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs.

    It is Makruh Tahrimi to recite Al Fatiha behind an Imam in the Hanafi Madhab - your parents might not follow the Madhab in this issue or they may not be aware of the ruling of the Madhab, its not wajib to follow the ruling of the Madhab but the fact is, that is the ruling of the Madhab.

    Quote Originally Posted by seven View Post
    according to the ahnaaf, it is not required for the muqtadi (follower in congregational salaah) to recite any Qur'an at all behind the imaam. to recite surah al fatiha in the 3rd and 4th rakaahs of fard salaah is deemed as sunnah only.
    Not true, accoring to the Ahnaaf it is Makruh Tahrimi to recite it, definitely not Sunnah.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    daleel please, i got word of mouth from an 2 Imams which, no offense seven, definitely supercedes word of mouth from you.

    i too find it impossible to believe this given that there is no evidence from sunnah or Quran to support this, that i know of.

    evidence for the opinion is what i am looking for so that i can stop harbouring ill will towards those who as of now in my opinion, follow blindly this innovation in Islam, that may invalidate their salaat according to Bukhari, and other Imams of this deen.

    it would be very strange indeed for Imams of Sunnah to disagree on things that invalidate the salaat, as i was quite sure there was consensus on those things, and Bukhari states that not reciting Fatihah invalidates the salaat in any rakat, follower or leader. this is a very serious issue for us followers since it is a matter of salaat being
    acceptable or not.


    Please see the evidence that I quoted above, it suffices to say that Scholars such as Imam Abu Hanifah, Muhammed & Abu Yusuf did not make rulings without evidence.

    Just because you don't know the evidence, it doesn't mean that it isn't there. I have posted a link to various Sahabah that did not used to recite Al Fatiha behind an Imam - will you re-consider your opinon after seeing the evidence?



    Quote Originally Posted by Ammarah View Post
    i learned my salat from hanafis, and i am at the point now where i would like the daleel for each thing I do in salat, just to be sure...

    so i read al fatiha in the third and fourth, no surah after... but I aint got a clue why, just that's how I was taught when i converted...

    I posted some of the evidence for you, its not that easy to read but hopefully you'll get most of it.

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    this is not an issue of following madhab, but of following the commands of Rasulullah,SAWS. if you read the above ahadith, you will see that silently reciting Fatihah behind the IMam was the practice of the Sahabah, RA, in no uncertain terms.
    There were also sahaba(rd) who didnt recite anything at all behind the imam. And ahnaf do prefer this practise.
    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post
    I have posted a link to various Sahabah that did not used to recite Al Fatiha behind an Imam - will you re-consider your opinon after seeing the evidence?
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by Naida View Post
    Another thing - if AbuNajm couldn't complete his Fatiha, regardless whether he's supposed to say it or not, how could the Imam then do it? Unfortunately, nowadays, many Imams practice what the Prophet referred to as "pecking," not Salah.
    an Imam dont recite his surah by thinking that qari abdul basit is praying behind him, who needs 5 min to recite fatiha.What he needs is to take care of tajweed, and make the jamat shorter as it was recommand by prophet(sw).
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by aboosait View Post
    Did the Prophet at anytime say that anyone who calls himself a Hanafi will be exempt from this?
    He(sw) said, when a person(be it hanafi,maliki,shafi,hanbali) praying behind an imam(5 time salah) he is exmpt from this:

    Jabir (RA) narrates, "Whoever has an Imaam then his Imaam’s qira 'ah is (sufficient) for him. " (AI Jawharun Naqih 159:2, I'Ia'us Sunan 61:4, Ibn Abi Shaybah 377:1 )

    Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) informed, "Whoever prays behind the Imaam. the qira 'ah of the Imaam is qira 'ah for him (meaning it is sufficient for him). (Umdatul Qari 12:3, Muwatta Muhammad 96, I'Ia'us Sunan 61:4 )

    Abdullah Ibn Shaddad relates that, "Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) lead the Asr Salaah. A person began reading behind him so another person close to him gave him a nudge. When he finished the Salaah, he asked, 'Why did you nudge me?' The second person replied, 'Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) was in front of you therefore I did not approve of you reciting behind the Imaam. 'Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) heard this and said 'Whoever has an Imaam, the qira'ah of the Imaam is enough for him
    (Muwatta Muhammad 98, I'Ia'us Sunan 70:4 )

    Ibn Taymiyah(rh)writes in his Fataawaa, 'The qira 'ah of the Imaam is sufficient for the muqtadis: The consensus of the Sahaabah and the Tabi 'een prove it. The ahadith proving it are narrated musnadan as well as mursalan. The fataawaa of the Tabi 'een were also that the qira 'ah is sufficient and the greatest thing is that it is in complete accordance with the Holy Qur 'an and the Sunnah (Fataawaa271:23 )

    1. Ataa Ibn Yasaar (RA) inquired from Zaid fun Thabit (RA) regarding qira'ah with the Imaam. He answered, "There is no qira 'ah with the Imaam. "(Muslim 215:1 )

    2. Malik reports from Nafi' that Abdullah Ibn Umar es, was asked whether anyone should read behind the Imaam or not. He replied, "Whenever anybody performs Salaah behind the Imaam the qira 'ah of the Imaam is sufficient for him but when he prays alone then he should recite (himself). " The narrator says that, Abdullah Ibn Umar (RA) did not perform qira 'ah behind the Imaam.' (Malik 51, I'la'us Sunan 76:4 )

    3. Ubaydullah Ibn Muqsim narrates that he asked Abdullah Ibn Umar, Zaid Ibn Thabit and Jabir Ibn Abdillah (RA) (regarding this issue). They told him that in no Salaah should anyone perform qira 'ah behind the Imaam.' (Aathaarus Sunan 116:1, I'la'us Sunan 81:4 )

    See the amount of disapproval expressed in the next statement:

    4. Alqamah relates that Abdullah Ibn Mas' ood (RA) said, "If only the mouth of the person reading behind the Imaam would be filled with soil (rubble). (Aathaarus Sunan 116:1, I'la'us Sunan 81:4)

    5. Abu Jamrah says, "1 asked Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA), 'Shall I recite when the Imaam is infront of me? , He replied, 'No." (Aathaarus Sunan 116:1, I'la'us Sunan 81:4 9. )

    6. Ibn Abbas (RA) informs that the qira 'ah of the Imaam is sufficient for you whether he recites silently or aloud." (Darn Qutni 331: 1. I'la'us Sunan 82:4 )

    7. Moosa Ibn Aqabah informed that Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam), Hadhrat Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (RA) would prohibit reciting behind the Imaam.? Umdatul Qari 67:3 ", II'la'us Sunan 84:4 )

    8. Moosa Ibn Sa'ad Ibn Zaid Ibn Thabit narrates from his grandfather that he said; "Whoever recites behind the Imaam there is no Salaah for him. " (MuwattaMuharnmad 100, I'la'us Sunan 87:4)

    9. Ibraheem Nakh'ay says, "The first action innovated (in the religion) was qira 'ah behind the Imaam. The Sahaabah did not recite behind the Imaam. " (AI Jawharun Naqih 169:4)

    This is further strengthened by the following:

    10. Ibraheem An Nakh'ay states, "The first person to read behind the Imaam was an accused person (an innovator). " (Muwatta Muhammad 100, I'Ia'us Sunan 89:4 )


    11. Abdullah Ibn Zaid Ibn Aslam reports from his father that ten Companions of Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) adamantly prohibited qira 'ahkhalfal-Imaam: Abu Bakr Siddique, Umar Farooq, Uthman Ibn Affan, Ali Ibn Abi Taalib, Abdur rahman Ibn Auf, Saad Ibn Abi Waqqas, Abdullah Ibn Mas' ood, Zaid Ibn Thaabit, Abdullah Ibn Umar and Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA). (Qalaa'idul Azhaar 42:2 )

    12. Hadhrat Ali (RA) states, "Whoever recites behind the Imaam, his Salaah is not valid. " In another hadith he says, "He has deviated from the correct disposition (nature). "(AI Jawharun Naqih218:2, IbnAbi Shaybah376:1 )

    13. Sa'ad (RA) says, "I would like a burning ember to be in the mouth of the one who recites behind the Imaam. "(Abdur Razzaq 138:2, Ibn Abi Shaybah 376:2 )

    What does Umar Ibnul Khattab say?

    15. He says, "If only there could be a stone in the mouth of the one who recites behind the Imaam. " (Abdur Razzaq 128:2 )


    Such great and exalted Companions of Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who were scholars as well, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Abdillah Ibn Umar, Jabir Ibn Abdullah, Abdullah Ibn Mas' ood, Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Sa'ad Ibn Abi Waqqas, Abdur Rahman Ibn Auf and great Tabi 'een like Muhammad Ibn Sireen, Ibraheem Nakh'ay and Awza'ee, etc., all echo the same words, 'There will be no qira 'ah for the muqtadi behind the Imaam. " Some of them were known to strictly enforce their view as well and others even said qira 'ah-khalfal-tmaam was an innovation.All this is in accordance to what the Hanafis say, "Do not recite behind the Imaam because the Imaam s qira 'ah is sufficient. "
    Last edited by junaid123; 28-10-09 at 06:02 PM.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Salaam Junaid,

    Just to give some more balance here, and to prove to people that everyone has their evidence for the opinion they follow, I have commented on some of the evidence that you & I posted.

    We have to learn to accept difference of opinion amongst the Madhahib because these issues are not as straight forward as it might seem at first glance.

    Quote Originally Posted by junaid123 View Post
    He(sw) said, when a person(be it hanafi,maliki,shafi,hanbali) praying behind an imam(5 time salah) he is exmpt from this:

    Jabir (RA) narrates, "Whoever has an Imaam then his Imaam’s qira 'ah is (sufficient) for him. " (AI Jawharun Naqih 159:2, I'Ia'us Sunan 61:4, Ibn Abi Shaybah 377:1 )

    Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) informed, "Whoever prays behind the Imaam. the qira 'ah of the Imaam is qira 'ah for him (meaning it is sufficient for him). (Umdatul Qari 12:3, Muwatta Muhammad 96, I'Ia'us Sunan 61:4 )

    Abdullah Ibn Shaddad relates that, "Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) lead the Asr Salaah. A person began reading behind him so another person close to him gave him a nudge. When he finished the Salaah, he asked, 'Why did you nudge me?' The second person replied, 'Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) was in front of you therefore I did not approve of you reciting behind the Imaam. 'Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) heard this and said 'Whoever has an Imaam, the qira'ah of the Imaam is enough for him
    (Muwatta Muhammad 98, I'Ia'us Sunan 70:4 )

    Ibn Taymiyah(rh)writes in his Fataawaa, 'The qira 'ah of the Imaam is sufficient for the muqtadis: The consensus of the Sahaabah and the Tabi 'een prove it. The ahadith proving it are narrated musnadan as well as mursalan. The fataawaa of the Tabi 'een were also that the qira 'ah is sufficient and the greatest thing is that it is in complete accordance with the Holy Qur 'an and the Sunnah (Fataawaa271:23 )

    1. Ataa Ibn Yasaar (RA) inquired from Zaid fun Thabit (RA) regarding qira'ah with the Imaam. He answered, "There is no qira 'ah with the Imaam. "(Muslim 215:1 )

    2. Malik reports from Nafi' that Abdullah Ibn Umar es, was asked whether anyone should read behind the Imaam or not. He replied, "Whenever anybody performs Salaah behind the Imaam the qira 'ah of the Imaam is sufficient for him but when he prays alone then he should recite (himself). " The narrator says that, Abdullah Ibn Umar (RA) did not perform qira 'ah behind the Imaam.' (Malik 51, I'la'us Sunan 76:4 )

    3. Ubaydullah Ibn Muqsim narrates that he asked Abdullah Ibn Umar, Zaid Ibn Thabit and Jabir Ibn Abdillah (RA) (regarding this issue). They told him that in no Salaah should anyone perform qira 'ah behind the Imaam.' (Aathaarus Sunan 116:1, I'la'us Sunan 81:4 )
    All mention that the qira’a of the Imam is sufficient for the person praying behind him. Yet the term qira’a generally isn’t used to refer to silent reading of the Qur’an, which is why the Prophet (saw) commanded us to listen (ansitu) when the Imam recites.



    See the amount of disapproval expressed in the next statement:


    4. Alqamah relates that Abdullah Ibn Mas' ood (RA) said, "If only the mouth of the person reading behind the Imaam would be filled with soil (rubble). (Aathaarus Sunan 116:1, I'la'us Sunan 81:4)

    5. Abu Jamrah says, "1 asked Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA), 'Shall I recite when the Imaam is infront of me? , He replied, 'No." (Aathaarus Sunan 116:1, I'la'us Sunan 81:4 9. )

    6. Ibn Abbas (RA) informs that the qira 'ah of the Imaam is sufficient for you whether he recites silently or aloud." (Darn Qutni 331: 1. I'la'us Sunan 82:4 )

    7. Moosa Ibn Aqabah informed that Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam), Hadhrat Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (RA) would prohibit reciting behind the Imaam.? Umdatul Qari 67:3 ", II'la'us Sunan 84:4 )

    8. Moosa Ibn Sa'ad Ibn Zaid Ibn Thabit narrates from his grandfather that he said; "Whoever recites behind the Imaam there is no Salaah for him. " (MuwattaMuharnmad 100, I'la'us Sunan 87:4)

    9. Ibraheem Nakh'ay says, "The first action innovated (in the religion) was qira 'ah behind the Imaam. The Sahaabah did not recite behind the Imaam. " (AI Jawharun Naqih 169:4)

    This is further strengthened by the following:

    10. Ibraheem An Nakh'ay states, "The first person to read behind the Imaam was an accused person (an innovator). " (Muwatta Muhammad 100, I'Ia'us Sunan 89:4 )


    11. Abdullah Ibn Zaid Ibn Aslam reports from his father that ten Companions of Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) adamantly prohibited qira 'ahkhalfal-Imaam: Abu Bakr Siddique, Umar Farooq, Uthman Ibn Affan, Ali Ibn Abi Taalib, Abdur rahman Ibn Auf, Saad Ibn Abi Waqqas, Abdullah Ibn Mas' ood, Zaid Ibn Thaabit, Abdullah Ibn Umar and Abdullah Ibn Abbas (RA). (Qalaa'idul Azhaar 42:2 )

    12. Hadhrat Ali (RA) states, "Whoever recites behind the Imaam, his Salaah is not valid. " In another hadith he says, "He has deviated from the correct disposition (nature). "(AI Jawharun Naqih218:2, IbnAbi Shaybah376:1 )

    13. Sa'ad (RA) says, "I would like a burning ember to be in the mouth of the one who recites behind the Imaam. "(Abdur Razzaq 138:2, Ibn Abi Shaybah 376:2 )

    What does Umar Ibnul Khattab say?

    15. He says, "If only there could be a stone in the mouth of the one who recites behind the Imaam. " (Abdur Razzaq 128:2 )


    Such great and exalted Companions of Rasoolullah (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) who were scholars as well, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Abdillah Ibn Umar, Jabir Ibn Abdullah, Abdullah Ibn Mas' ood, Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Sa'ad Ibn Abi Waqqas, Abdur Rahman Ibn Auf and great Tabi 'een like Muhammad Ibn Sireen, Ibraheem Nakh'ay and Awza'ee, etc., all echo the same words, 'There will be no qira 'ah for the muqtadi behind the Imaam. " Some of them were known to strictly enforce their view as well and others even said qira 'ah-khalfal-tmaam was an innovation.All this is in accordance to what the Hanafis say, "Do not recite behind the Imaam because the Imaam s qira 'ah is sufficient. "
    Firstly, there is consensus that the views of the Tabi‘in are not an evidence. As for the views of the Companions, most scholars take their view as evidence when their view is not contradicted by the views of other Companions. In this particular instance where there are many sound statements of Sahabis saying that you have to recite al-Fatiha when praying behind the Imam in the silent prayers and even in the loud prayers, the views of individual Companions are at best evidence to the permissibility of doing such an act, but they don’t prove the act is correct.

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat



    11. This talks about the Imam’s recitation being valid for the follower in the silent prayer. But the hadith is mursal, which means that the person narrating it from the Prophet (saw) is a tabi‘i and we don’t know who he narrated from. The Malikis accept mursal hadith as evidence, but not the Shafi‘is and Hanbalis. Even then, the problem with this hadith is that Abu Hanifa narrates the same hadith with the same isnad except that the Sahabi Jabir is quoted as the narrator. In this version there’s no mention of ‘Asr prayer, and therefore this stops being a real evidence.

    12. This is the hadith narrated by Abu Hanifa with the same isnad as number 11 but which doesn’t mention ‘Asr prayer.
    Last edited by AbuIbraheem.; 29-10-09 at 09:47 AM.

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat



    14. The hadith in Sunan al-Daruqutni is weak. In it's isnad is 'Asim b. 'Abdul 'Aziz. al-Daruqutni himself said “Asim is not reliable”. He also quoted: Abu Musa said: I asked Ahmad bin Hanbal about the hadith of Ibn ‘Abbas regarding the recitation and he said “The hadith is munkar.” Al-Nasa’i and al-Bukhari also described ‘Asim as a weak narrator.

    15. This hadith actually proves that when the term qira’a is referred to in Salah what is generally meant is the loud prayer. Otherwise how could anyone know when the Imam has finished reciting al-Fatiha?

    16. Same as 15.

    In conclusion, I am not convinced either way but being Hanafi I am inclined to follow the Hanafi opinion, the point that I am making though is that each opinion is backed with evidence so its not for laymen like us to start throwing around accusations like some have done in this thread.
    Last edited by AbuIbraheem.; 29-10-09 at 09:57 AM.

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    I've had this problem many times over in Hanafi dominated masajid.

    If you want to follow this opinion, then at least go a little slower on Surah Fatiha.

    I'm no Abdul Basit and I am left behind in the dust.

    It's not taraweeh season as found in some masajid....

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post

    All mention that the qira’a of the Imam is sufficient for the person praying behind him. Yet the term qira’a generally isn’t used to refer to silent reading of the Qur’an, which is why the Prophet (saw) commanded us to listen (ansitu) when the Imam recites.
    So that would mean only the loud recital of the imam. But it cannot be taken to include Surat al-Fatihah because there are clear Hadith from the Prophet's words:

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Book 004, Number 0778:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One is not credited with having observed the prayer without the recitation (of al-Fatiha).......................

    Book 004, Number 0775:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If anyone observes prayer in which he does not recite Umm al-Qur'an, It is deficient [he said this three times] and not complete. ...........
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by aboosait View Post
    So that would mean only the loud recital of the imam. But it cannot be taken to include Surat al-Fatihah because there are clear Hadith from the Prophet's words:
    Read the rest of the evidence and the statements from the Sahaba

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuHaneefah View Post
    Read the rest of the evidence and the statements from the Sahaba
    Please prove the authenticity of the sources from where you have quoted those statements. To me some of them seem to be Shia books.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    Book 004, Number 0778:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One is not credited with having observed the prayer without the recitation (of al-Fatiha). So said Abu Huraira: (The prayer in which) the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) recited in a loud voice, we also recited that loudly for you (and the prayer in which) he recited inwardly we also recited inwardly for you (to give you a practical example of the prayer of the Holy Prophet).

    Book 004, Number 0775:
    Abu Huraira reported: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If anyone observes prayer in which he does not recite Umm al-Qur'an, It is deficient [he said this three times] and not complete. It was said to Abu Huraira: At times we are behind the Imam. He said: Recite it inwardly, for he had heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) declare that Allah the Exalted had said: I have divided the prayer into two halves between Me and My servant, and My servant will receive what he asks. When the servant says: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the universe, Allah the Most High says: My servant has praised Me. And when he (the servant) says: The Most Compassionate, the Merciful, Allah the Most High says: My servant has lauded Me. And when he (the servant) says: Master of the Day of judg- ment, He remarks: My servant has glorified Me. and sometimes He would say: My servant entrusted (his affairs) to Me. And when he (the worshipper) says: Thee do we worship and of Thee do we ask help, He (Allah) says: This is between Me and My servant, and My servant will receive what he asks for. Then, when he (the worshipper) says: Guide us to the straight path, the path of those to whom Thou hast been Gracious not of those who have incurred Thy displeasure, nor of those who have gone astray, He (Allah) says: This is for My servant, and My servant will receive what he asks for. Sufyan said: 'Ala b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. Ya'qub narrated it to me when I went to him and he was confined to his home on account of illness, and I asked him about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AbuNajm View Post
    .......... if you read the above ahadith, you will see that silently reciting Fatihah behind the IMam was the practice of the Sahabah, RA, in no uncertain terms.the opinions of scholars, however respected they are, do not have precedence over the example of those who were better than them. and with something so serious as the acceptability of salaat, we should not take ANY chances with 'opinions' or 'orders' or 'examples' other than Rasulullah,SAWS, and his Companions, RA.
    Worship only the CREATOR, HE is One and HE is the SUSTAINER of the Universe. Do not worship any of HIS creations nor through HIS creations

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by aboosait View Post
    seem to be Shia books.
    for example?
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

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    Re: 3rd and 4th Rakat

    Quote Originally Posted by aboosait View Post
    Please prove the authenticity of the sources from where you have quoted those statements. To me some of them seem to be Shia books.



    That is very offensive!

    The References are there, but rather than concede there is difference of opinion you suggest books like the Mu'atta of Imaam Muhammed and Tahaawi are Shia books!!!





    May Allah (swt) forgive you for slandering Scholars of such rank!


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