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  1. #1
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    1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    conquering your social conditioning

    salaam 'alaykum,

    I want to tell a parable to make this easier to understand so please bear with me.

    There were these two travelling beef salesmen who came to a city trying to sell beef.

    To their astonishment no one in the city ever ate beef before, they were eating donkey.

    The first salesman tried to sell them beef and they laughed.

    He said please try my beef, it is better than donkey.

    They laughed and said, no way, our grandparents always ate donkey and so did our parent and so do we. We never ate beef in our lives. We are happy with our donkey.

    He said, I will give it to you for half the price of donkey.

    They said no.

    He said I will give you free beef for a week.

    They said ok, on condition that you buy our donkey meat for double the price for a month otherwise we are kicking you out of our town.

    He said, are you crazy, i never ate donkey in my life, the thought of it makes me want to vomit.

    They said, aha, so why would we try your beef if you don't try our donkey?

    They kicked him out of the city.

    The 2nd salesman was smarter, same scenario but at the end he actually consulted with an 'Alim and found out donkey is not haraam, but it is makrooh.

    He never ate donkey too and the thought of it made him sick but he took a month supply for double the price and pretended to enjoy it in front of them for the 1st week but then he got used to it. His family vomitted for 2 weeks but finally got used to it.

    He came back to them saying, "I used to think donkey meat must be terrible but I actually like it better than beef."

    They all became good friends and they started selling him donkey meat at the normal price and he continued to eat donkey for a month more.

    The 3rd month he said the same thing that donkey tasted just a little bit better than beef and today I am selling beef at half the price of donkey meat, do you want to try.

    They said, the thought of beef makes us sick but because you are our friend and you tried our donkey meat and continue to enjoy it like you we will buy your beef.

    They were so reluctant and after a few minutes they realized that beef tastes better than donkey!

    They said can we have some more?

    He said sure but it is not half price anymore.

    They introduced beef to their family and friends. Everyone was reluctant and said gross gross, ill, but after a couple of tries they all agreed that beef is better than donkey!

    The 2nd salesman became a millionaire and sold more beef than anyone in his business.

    OK?

    Now, my point is this, if you want to spread Islam in the West you have to partake in eating their "donkey meat" in order to convince them to try your "beef".

    Do you understand my philosophy now? Do you agree?

    We have to also make the "beef" soft and easy so they can chew it. We have to partake in some of their not so pleasant things that are against our social conditioning, in order to convince them to try some of the things we love which are against their social conditioning.

    Can we now become effective "beef salesmen" or will be like the 1st salesman who got kicked out of the city?

    If you agree with me please start eating double and triple patty "donkey" burgers for 3 months, instead of just single patty "donkey" burgers that the West is used to eating.

    I guarantee you that they will start eating your single patty "beef" burgers after a year.

    There is a surplus of "donkey" and the West will really appreciate it if you buy some of it.

    http://muslimyouth.net/forum/

  2. #2
    live islam 24/7 dawud_uk's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    assalaamu alaykum,

    let truth stand out clear from error, i have found the opposite to parrable to be true.

    if you try to disguise the message of islam, use salesman tactics and modify the message to please the masses then they will not respect you or the deen you represent thinking you are no different from the missionaries who use lies and deceit to call people to their way of life.

    if you set out the differences clearly and politely, using kind words and beautiful speech then they flock to you to listen to this alternative message.

    the da'ee who gives the clear message of islam is the one Allah uses to make more people muslim, the compromiser who changes his deen to please the kuffar never gets near the level of success and what is more the people who come into the deen through such dawah often have a very confused idea of what islam is.

    apart from anything else, domesticated donkey meat is haram to eat, it was forbidden after the conquest of makkah at the same time as mutah marriage was forbidden.

    Al-Bukhaari (5527) and Muslim (1936) narrated that Abu Tha’labah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade the meat of domesticated donkeys.

    assalaamu alaykum,
    Abu Abdillah

  3. #3
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    If my beef is going to get me through life....than why would i want to sabotage my deen just get a few others to join.... it is already the fastest growing reiligion on earth.
    ps. let them eat there donkey meat!

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    I will never compromise with the donkey eater , let them eat donkey and I am satisfied with my Islam.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    'Alim told him you can compromise on makrooh and mustahabb for the greater good but never on halaal and haraam. 'Alim says "Based on my research donkey is not haraam, but makrooh". Based on circumstances a makrooh can become mustahabb and a mustahabb can become makrooh. See Ibn Khaldun's "Bidayat al-Mujtahid".

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    In Khaybar Prophet forbade donkey because they needed to use them to ride on.
    For example, chicken is halaal but a mujtahid can pronouce chicken haraam if there is a shortage of
    chicken and they need to temporarily breed more chickens until the number becomes safe to prevent
    extinction...

  7. #7
    live islam 24/7 dawud_uk's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    'Alim told him you can compromise on makrooh and mustahabb for the greater good but never on halaal and haraam. 'Alim says "Based on my research donkey is not haraam, but makrooh". Based on circumstances a makrooh can become mustahabb and a mustahabb can become makrooh. See Ibn Khaldun's "Bidayat al-Mujtahid".
    maybe the alim is confused between wild donkey and domesticated donkey, the first halal the 2nd haram.

    anyway, that is not really the point of this thread is it? the point of the thread is how far can you go in compromising in the name of spreading the deen,

    so as always lets go back to rasoolullah saws and the sahabah (ra) and see if they compromised?

    when the Quresh asked Muhammad (saws) if he would compromise and do things there way for a year and his way for a year alternating the answer came down from Allah above his arsh which was surah kafiroon.

    we call towards our deen with kind words and beautiful preaching, arguing with them in ways that are better than their's but we do not change the deen to please the kuffar.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Wouldn't trying to sell beef in the west be like selling snow to an inuit? Lots of dairy farms in the west not so many donkey farms. In fact ive never heard of anyone eating donkey. I'm being literal of course.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    The city was eating domesticated donkey not wild. We are talking about makrooh donkey not haraam donkey.

    Let us continue.

    Do you acknowledge that a makrooh can become mustahabb if a greater good is achieved?

    The non-muslim domesticated donkey eater says I will not talk to you about Islam unless you come to my home and eat domesticated donkey steak with me.

    Would you eat the domesticated donkey with him or not?

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    في أستراليا truepath's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    wa alykum assalaam


    before you invent, design, and craft your own donkey and beef ways, consult scholars and seek their advice rather than thinkin you know your stuff.

    one cannot agree your parable as it requires to eat donkey to make them eat your beef.

    method of dawah has been shown in very detail in many different sections of Quran, Sunnah, ahadith and seerah. if you follow the way shown in these 4 noble things i am sure you would not need to invent this donkey eating method.

    may allah guide us all. ameen
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    The "donkey" "beef" examples were part of the parable to bring it down to this question:

    Do we have the power to conquer our social conditioning and "eat domesticated donkey" which is not haraam but makrooh if by doing so we have a greater chance to achieve some good for deen?

    If you don't have an intelligent response please just be quite and let someone with more intelligence respond.

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    .dum.vita.est.spes.est. Pippin1376's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    What I don't like about the story is the fact that he did it for a month, before even trying to bring the beef. In Islam there are no compromises and when it comes to dawah, Surah Kafiroon is an excellent example of it. Give your dawah, do it in a nice way. If they don't believe then khlas, if you have done your part the rest is with them and Allah. If they believe alhamdulillah.

    Do we have the power to conquer our social conditioning and "eat domesticated donkey" which is not haraam but makrooh if by doing so we have a greater chance to achieve some good for deen?
    At the end of the day we have to remember how the Prophet (SAW) gave dawah. Would he do something makrooh for the greater good? Or only stick with halal and leave the rest with Allah and that person.
    "...And never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy: truly no one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except those who have no faith."
    Surah Yusuf
    [12:87]



    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you



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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    I said I want an intelligent response.

    I am not asking you to compromise on haraam and halaal even 1%.

    I am asking you to compromise on makrooh and mustahabb.

    Do you understand?

    Let us simplify the parable a little more shall we.

    Are you willing to take 4 christian wives each if by doing so you might have a greater chance of helping at least half convert to Islam?

    I took 4 christian wives and half converted to Islam.

    What do you think is the wisdom in this verse?

    سورة المائدة - سورة 5 - آية 5
    اليوم احل لكم الطيبات وطعام الذين اوتوا الكتاب حل لكم وطعامكم حل لهم والمحصنات من المؤمنات والمحصنات من الذين اوتوا الكتاب من قبلكم اذا اتيتموهن اجورهن محصنين غير مسافحين ولا متخذي اخدان ومن يكفر بالايمان فقد حبط عمله وهو في الاخرة من الخاسرين
    This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.

    You guys are not open-minded. I am going back to:
    http://www.muslimyouth.net/forum/

    You can't preach Islam to a westerner while wearing shalwar kamees and a kufi with a miswaak in your hand.

    You have to make them feel as if you and them have a lot in common. You have to "compromise" on your Eastern cultural habits in order to make them listen to you.

    Do not compromise on halaal and haraaam, please, for the last time, but yes compromise on makrooh and mustahabb if the outcome is going to be better.

    I am disappointed. I have helped over 100 people convert to Islam while your Eastern brothers just walk around with kufis and self-righteous attitudes not caring about anyone but yourself.

    You have to strip Islam to the bear necessities and drop all the mustahabbs and makroohs and make Islam easy to follow. Once they are initiated into the Deen let them choose for themselves whether they want to avoid makroohs and do mustahabbs on their own.

    The Prophet said (sa) Bashshir wa la tunnaffir, yassir wa laa tu'assir.

    You guys are doing the exact opposite of what he commanded.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    You don't need to sell Islam to the West. You need to show them that True Islam and True Christianity are the same; SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF GOD.

    MESSAGE TO THE BELLIGERED NATIONS is a very important message to save those nations scheduled for destruction including America.

    It is a must read if you want to make sense out of the world today:
    Christians especially should read it. Maybe they would wake up if they did.

    http://mysite.verizon.net/ress8ouv/m...igerednations/

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    You can't preach Islam to a westerner while wearing shalwar kamees and a kufi with a miswaak in your hand.

    You have to make them feel as if you and them have a lot in common. You have to "compromise" on your Eastern cultural habits in order to make them listen to you.
    If you believe that you can't preach Islam to the West while wearing a kufi, then you have to look at the bigger picture. If a Christian comes to my house, will they compromise with not liked things in order for me to become a Christian? Nope. They'll tell me bluntly, but in a pleasant manner.

    If we cannot give dawah while looking like a Muslim, then it looks like we are ashamed of our religion. Why would anyone follow us then? At the end of the day, like I mentioned before, we should simply stick to the ways of the Prophet (SAW). He would only stick to halal when giving dawah. If the people didn't want to follow, then so be it.

    Don't compromise your faith, or yourself in order for people to follow you.
    "...And never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy: truly no one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except those who have no faith."
    Surah Yusuf
    [12:87]



    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you



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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    السلام عليكم و رحمة الله

    How many times must I tell you, I am not asking you to compromise on halaal and haraam even .01%. I am asking you to compromise on your "back home" eastern cultural habits.

    ًWhat is the meaning of the saying of the Prophet?


    يسر و لا تعسر و بشر و لا تنفر

    Give me 3 examples of its application.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...D9%81%D8%B1%22

    Is there not a single intelligent brother or sister among you?

    What is the wisdom of the verse I quoted you?

    The Mahdi is calling you brothers to take 4 christian wives each. Why won't you do what you are commanded?
    Last edited by iloveislam4u2; 26-07-08 at 09:53 PM.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    To build a bridge to your neighbor you have to make him feel comfortable.
    Being like your neighbor in appearance is very important to disarming your neighbors reactionary habits and conditioning.

    If you wish to save him, you must do what it takes to get into his mind.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    السلام عليكم و رحمة الله

    How many times must I tell you, I am not asking you to compromise on halaal and haraam even .01%. I am asking you to compromise on your "back home" eastern cultural habits.
    I grew up in Canada a very western country. So please stop saying that it's back home, it's the Islamic way to follow the Prophet (SAW), that's it.
    "...And never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy: truly no one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except those who have no faith."
    Surah Yusuf
    [12:87]



    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you



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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Exactly brother Ivan! You are intelligent.

    Now tell these brothers to stop walking around with Miswaak in their hands and eat with the christian neighbors and marry their women for the sake of Allah. For the sake of advancing the cause of Islam. For the sake of your survival in the west.

    سورة إبراهيم - سورة 14 - آية 4

    وما ارسلنا من رسول الا بلسان قومه ليبين لهم فيضل الله من يشاء ويهدي من يشاء وهو العزيز الحكيم
    And We never sent a messenger save with the language of his folk, that he might make (the message) clear for them. Then Allah sendeth whom He will astray, and guideth whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Wise.

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Allah also said to follow the Prophet (SAW). Why go in the path of what is makrook, when there is a lot of halal ways of giving dawah? And I like my miswak, your post actually reminded me to use it, so thank you for that.
    "...And never give up hope of Allah's Soothing Mercy: truly no one despairs of Allah's Soothing Mercy, except those who have no faith."
    Surah Yusuf
    [12:87]



    .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
    Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you



  21. #21
    live islam 24/7 dawud_uk's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    assalaamu alaykum,

    imitating the kuffar for the sake of it isnt even allowed in the first place, the prophet muhammad saws said at the end of a much longer haddith that whoever imitates a people is one of them.

    (and please dont go calling me a typical eastern muslim as i sitting writing this on my pc in the uk and am a revert of mixed english / irish origin)

    i think i get what you are trying to say, but i am disagreeing with you, the method of dawah is set out in the Quran and sunnah, yes there are different ways of implimenting those sunnah methods within what is allowable but i am disagreeing with the central premise that you need to compromise on the deen to make dawah, in my experience people are looking for an alternative to their jahil lifestyle and if you present islam to them as something the same as what they are practicing upon already where is the attraction in that?

    assalaamu alaykum,
    Abu Abdillah (who also likes his miswak)

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    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    is there an example in our history of such a theory being applied?
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  23. #23
    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    i am really trying to understand putting your family thru two weeks of eating donkey meat, merely to make a sale

    yes akhi, we can always "market" islam, but is this the way of the Prophet?

    they asked him to serve their gods for a day, and they would serve Allah for a day..........and the hadith continues, but basically, i am not seeing any islamic precedence for such application of dawa

    yes, its a nice story, and there are many other nice stories that give us a logical conclusion, but as muslims, we are not to find stories to make precedents in our lives, we are to adhere to quran and sunnah

    and i am a backwards middle easterner from back home (east ny)
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  24. #24
    www.MyUmmah.co.za
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    read: Sura Kaafiroon

    To you your religion and me my religion.

    Is that so hard to understand?
    www.MyUmmah.co.za - Islamic Content For the Ummah by the Ummah

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    Icon13 Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    We have to partake in some of their not so pleasant things that are against our social conditioning, in order to convince them to try some of the things we love which are against their social conditioning.

    http://muslimyouth.net/forum/
    No, this is not the way of the Muslims.

    This is the philosophy of the evangelists, and let me tell you what happens to such people.... they spend their whole lives playing "salesman", they cause a famine and then provide the food + bible preaching to convert illiterate people who dont know any better, but one day those people WILL KNOW BETTER...

    A Human being is not a animal that you can domesticate him generation after generation, even the simple can gain wisdom, and when he realizes he has been tricked - he will reject what you have taught him and he will do a complete U-turn.

    This is why whole of Europe turned apostate from Christian teachings within a short space of 100-200 years, because they realised they had been fed a lie for 2000 years, now the hatred they have for Christianity has turned into a greater hatred for Religion as a whole!

    See how this back-fires?

    You married 4 Christian wives, compromised your deen, risked your children being exposed to Shirk...instead of spreading Islam x1000 you quadrupled the chances of your kids being inclined to Christianity!

    Umar al-Khattab (May Allah be pleased with him) advised against marrying the women of the yahood and nasara, saying "they are like wine for you" -

    Had the Prophet (saw) used the tricks you advocate, do you really think the Arabian peninsula would be Muslim today? and the other 1 Billion Minds, do you think they would be so stupid as to believe a "salesman" that fed them donkey meat?

    Anyway, may Allah guide us all, and reward you for your intention brother - to further the cause of Islam, but remember what seperates us from every other way of life is.... THE ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

    walaikum asalaam

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    في أستراليا truepath's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    The "donkey" "beef" examples were part of the parable to bring it down to this question:

    Do we have the power to conquer our social conditioning and "eat domesticated donkey" which is not haraam but makrooh if by doing so we have a greater chance to achieve some good for deen?

    If you don't have an intelligent response please just be quite and let someone with more intelligence respond.
    I believe my response was intelligent enough because I said the 4 sources Quran, hadith, seerah and sunnah define the method of dawah in detail about how prophet has carried out this duty and how sahaba have carried out their duty. Allah has explained this in detail in Quran by giving the examples of many other prophets and even people who were not prophets and also birds and bees.

    Now if you dont find a response that doesn't matches with the paradigm of your donkey and beef theory doesn't really mean its an unintelligent response. Your response is quite childish if you get a response from people that disagrees with your view you declare you need intelligent response.

    I think you will need to find a *donkey* to adopt the donkey theory. I come on this place for quite a long time and I can assure you i havent found any single donkey on the forums.

    Lastly, to me "eastern culture" holds no value. I dunno who among practicing muslims stick to eastern culture but has nothin to do with islam. I talk bout islamic culture as per quran n hadith and whether I need
    compromise on it or not and if I start believing that I will have to give up on practicing sunnah (in dressing, using miskwak etc) in order to bring disbelievers to islam then i am certainly mistaken because it is not me but it is Allah who guides them
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

  27. #27
    Odan usman3's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    I think you will need to find a *donkey* to adopt the donkey theory. I come on this place for quite a long time and I can assure you i havent found any single donkey on the forums.

    lool im sorry but that just killed it

  28. #28
    Vahabi Asma-SE's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    Are you willing to take 4 christian wives each if by doing so you might have a greater chance of helping at least half convert to Islam?
    Errr No

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    You guys are not open-minded. I am going back to:
    http://www.muslimyouth.net/forum/
    Alhamdullilah

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    You can't preach Islam to a westerner while wearing shalwar kamees and a kufi with a miswaak in your hand.
    No instead we should marry his sister


    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    I am disappointed. I have helped over 100 people convert to Islam while your Eastern brothers just walk around with kufis and self-righteous attitudes not caring about anyone but yourself.
    I am dissappointed to, your arrogant attitude is terrible! I think you've got a self-hate complex with the east...
    "And We will remove whatever is in their breasts of resentment, [so they will be] brothers, on thrones facing each other."
    Al Hijr: 47

  29. #29
    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    i have heard a lot of muslims agree that you cant be TOO MUCH INTO THE SUNNAH to spread islam

    and then when people accept islam like this, they turn around to you and say........have you gotten as many people to accept islam?


    you guys need to go re-read the amr khaled thread, that is EXACTLY the reasoning behind people loving him, he sells donkey meat, and people accept islam

    and when you tell the people you shouldnt sell donkey meat, they say, he has gotten so many people to return to islam using his donkey meat

    so i dont see why everyone is jumping on iluvislam, when we actually agree with him
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  30. #30
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    I get the moral of the story but how can u compromise ur dheen for them for example.. if a non muslim said to u come with me to the pub and we shall have abear and over the bear u can tel me about Islam, will u do that...

    I guess what the brother is trying to say is that u can go to the pub and have a orange juice and tell him about islam...

  31. #31
    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    dusty

    lemme show you how we do this.............a brother shaves his beard and has a fan club of improperly dressed women............many THOUSANDS of people follow him and think he is the greatest da'ee

    some fundi gets up and says, he is selling donkey meat to the masses

    the fan club gets upset and says.........what have YOU done for islam?
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  32. #32
    Yeah Nah Ruprecht's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Give me some examples of the donkey meat...

    Also, the "conversion-by-marriage" tactic? It's offensive.
    "I shall be telling this with a sigh. Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -- I took the one less travelled by, And that has made all the difference."
    ~ Robert Frost, The Road Not Taken

  33. #33
    أنا مسلم AbuMubarak's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    rup, i know brothers who have these kafir girlfriends, in hopes they will eventually accept islam

    they even marry them and have children by them

    sometimes they accept islam for about a week, other times, they never accept islam, and once in a blue moon, they actually accept islam and become good muslims

    that is a good donkey meat example

    any method that compromises the muslim is a donkey meat example
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية






  34. #34
    Odan Al-Farooq's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by iloveislam4u2 View Post
    conquering your social conditioning
    What you seem to think of as "social conditioning", it's the one thing we should be clinging firm to in these crazy days - the Muslim way of life, as defined by al-Qur'an al-Kareem and the sunnah of Muhammad salAllahu alayhe wasalaam.

    Allah ta'ala guides whom He wills. Donkey meat or no donkey meat.

    Terrible analogy, terrible idea.

  35. #35
    live islam 24/7 dawud_uk's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    assalaamu alaykum,

    mashallah it is good two women accepted islam from his 4 wives, and i dont want to cast stones at this brother personally (even if he has left, it would still be backbiting)

    but from my own experience two things happen when a muslim marries a kaffirah, either she leaves when he wants to practice islam and bring the kids up on the deen, or she accepts islam and kicks him out for being jahil himself.

    very rarely is there something inbetween.

    also we must ask what sort of muslims are brought into the deen by such methods where they are not told the whole message?

    once again from my own experience with new muslims you have to give them dawah all over again, they dont understand the first thing about the deen and think it is just another lifestyle choice like those people who put a buddha statue in the window, turn vegie and call themselves budhist but dont know the first thing about that faith.

    islam is a total and complete way of life, islam means submission to almighty Allah and you cant do that getting to know your kaffirah neighbour for the sake of marrying her just in case she accepts islam.

    besides anything else, it says in the Quran that chaste women of the book are allowed to you, not chased women of the book. other than hanging around the gates of a convent school i dont know where you can find such a woman

    assalaamu alaykum,
    Abu Abdillah

  36. #36

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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Muslims should not be concerned about "selling" Islam.

    Allah will guide whom He wills... it is not our responsibility.

    I have a responsibility to myself and my family and the Muslim Ummah as a whole. If I am a relatively good example that inspires non-Muslims to ask questions about my deen... then I will tell them. Otherwise, it is non of my business what other people do, as long as they do not try to impose their way of life on me or my family.

    This idea of "selling" Islam makes me feel physically sick. Islam is not a political party involved in a popularity contest!

    Allahu Ackbar!

  37. #37
    Bringing Islam back ! Believer1984's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    Quote Originally Posted by MADMAX View Post
    Muslims should not be concerned about "selling" Islam.

    Allah will guide whom He wills... it is not our responsibility.

    I have a responsibility to myself and my family and the Muslim Ummah as a whole. If I am a relatively good example that inspires non-Muslims to ask questions about my deen... then I will tell them. Otherwise, it is non of my business what other people do, as long as they do not try to impose their way of life on me or my family.

    This idea of "selling" Islam makes me feel physically sick. Islam is not a political party involved in a popularity contest!

    Allahu Ackbar!
    Well said.

    Allah hu akbar !

  38. #38
    The Real Grand Mufti in_exile's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    so basically its ok to sleep around in order to help them understand the importance of not doing zina?
    Last edited by in_exile; 28-07-08 at 12:04 AM.
    FEAR ALLAH (SWT) AS HE DESERVES TO BE FEARED!!!
    OH Allah help your slaves in As Sham
    Donate to syria.
    *Sisters please do not rep or PM me as my wife will kill me so rep her instead*

  39. #39
    The Real Grand Mufti in_exile's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    just realised something... shiahs believe donkey meat is not haram... is the thread starter a shiah? i wouldnt be surprised
    FEAR ALLAH (SWT) AS HE DESERVES TO BE FEARED!!!
    OH Allah help your slaves in As Sham
    Donate to syria.
    *Sisters please do not rep or PM me as my wife will kill me so rep her instead*

  40. #40
    الله مولانا ولا مولى لهم Abu Suleiman's Avatar
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    Re: 1000x more effective power in spreading Islam in the West

    i think they are, check the "Imam Jafar al-Siddiq gives the Secret to Shia Sunni Unity" thread


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