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  1. #1
    Member asalamualikum's Avatar
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    Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Asalamualikum everyone, this is my first of many posts inshallah on this forum.

    Lately I have been very confused regarding this whole matter of various sects in islam and every sect believing they are the correct one. I very recently came across this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVfTENzcKaU

    In my opinion is it short and to the point and clears up any confusion people have over sects.

    What are other peoples opinion on this? I do not mean to offend anyone from any sect, but having viewed this video do you think its better to simply class yourself as a Muslim, as oppose to sunni muslim, shia etc.

    Thanks guys.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    He is correct.

    Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) at that time there was no sects, only MUSLIM.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Islam is one indeed but sects are a reality .

    Because if someone asks you are u muslim , you will say off course and Sunni cause there is he might think u are Shia .

    So that alone means there are two sects ( major ones) .

    Then the Sunnis themselves have sects within excluding ( Hanafi, Maliki, Shafie , Hanbali ( they are school's of thought not sects ) .

    Deobandi - Salafi - Sufi - tableeghi - Barelwi ....................

    and they themselves have Sub sects sorry to say : same applies to shia < so sects in islam is a reality even if we all call ourselves muslim .

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    It is definitely a reality. Sects have become a division among us, but we can still co exist within those sects and mantain brotherhood.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Bismillah,

    Sunni and Shi'a are the "branches" not "sects" of Islam.

    Sunni means following the sunnah of Muhammad (S), so not really a big deal.

    There's no such thing as wahabi.

    Hanafi is a school of thought/madhab that helps us understand rulings better and is in no way a sect.


    When Muslims used the word sect, from my understanding, they are deviant.

    I.e. Bahais, Ismailis, Ahmaddiyahs, Nation of Islam, etc.

    Everything else is very different.

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    Wa Harridil Mu'mineen RashidD's Avatar
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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Ahmadis/ Qadianis are not sects, they're kuffar.
    "Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes"

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Yes it is a reality that there are many sects in Islaam with different sets of belief, etc. However, the people belonging to these sects are still Muslims and it is not permissible to make takfeer on any of these sects.

    The hadith that is cited can be found in Sahih at-Tirmidhi, and also in other books of Sunan and the Musnad of Imam Ahmad. The Prophet peace be upon him said:

    "My community will divide into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire save one."

    The people asked him: "And which one will that be?"

    He replied: "The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now."

    The hadith implies that the 72 deviant sects are still within the fold of Islaam and hence the adherants to these scts are Muslims.

    The point of argument, debate and dispute is which is the saved sect? It is clear that the saved sect is the one that is upon the 'aqeedah (Creed) and manhaj (methodology) of the Prophet peace be upon him and his Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them all), that is, the followers of the Salaf us-Salih.

    And we have so many Muslims saying foolish things based on their ignorance and arroagance! May Allaah guide us all to the path of the Salaf us-Salih. Ameen.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by samiu View Post
    The point of argument, debate and dispute is which is the saved sect? It is clear that the saved sect is the one that is upon the 'aqeedah (Creed) and manhaj (methodology) of the Prophet peace be upon him and his Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them all), that is, the followers of the Salaf us-Salih.

    And we have so many Muslims saying foolish things based on their ignorance and arroagance! May Allaah guide us all to the path of the Salaf us-Salih. Ameen.
    Can you tell me about Salaf us-Salih, please?

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by RashidD View Post
    Ahmadis/ Qadianis are not sects, they're kuffar.
    Be very careful before uttering even a word. Be very careful before you write even a single word. Instead of blaming others, lets spend some of our time checking our state of belief with how the characters of a Muslim should be by reading Qur'an and also examples of those who followed this religion before. Then decide whether we are not mistakenly one of the kuffar or hypocrites.
    Last edited by Trouper; 20-08-09 at 02:32 AM.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouper View Post
    Be very careful before uttering even a word. Be very careful before you write even a single word. Instead of blaming others, lets spend some of our time checking our state of belief with how the characters of a Muslim should be by reading Qur'an and also examples of those who followed this religion before. Then decide whether we are not mistakenly one of the kuffar or hypocrites.
    oh the qadiyanis are definetly kuffar.

    Sects are a reality and not to be ignored. But whihc one is the correct one? there has to be ONE. Since the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said "one".

    acording to Imam Ghazali and other its the ahle sunnah wal jamah:

    Imam Ghazzali (radi Allahu anhu) writes: "The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat is the successful Firqah (group) and it is this Firqa which weighs or determines its thoughts and its according to the scales of the Holy Quran". (Mujarribaate Imam Ghazal)

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.



    I agree with Zakir Naik.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Zakir Naik should stick to what he knows rather than acting the scholar.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Med, what did he say that was wrong?

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    1. Misleading information about the 4 Mujtahid Imams and their saying about throwing the fatwah on the wall.

    2. Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'ee, Hambali = sects? since when?

    3. Zakir Naik quotes Quran and Ahadeeth - but what he is saying is his understanding, not necessarily what ALLAH and His Rasul command. If we took his meaning to be true that he only speaks what ALLAH and His Rasul are telling us then that necessarily makes one who disagrees with what he says a kafir. Because rejecting what ALLAH and His Rasul say is kufr. Its misleading for people to present the Quran and Ahadeeth is this simplistic manner.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    1. Misleading information about the 4 Mujtahid Imams and their saying about throwing the fatwah on the wall.

    2. Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'ee, Hambali = sects? since when?

    3. Zakir Naik quotes Quran and Ahadeeth - but what he is saying is his understanding, not necessarily what ALLAH and His Rasul command. If we took his meaning to be true that he only speaks what ALLAH and His Rasul are telling us then that necessarily makes one who disagrees with what he says a kafir. Because rejecting what ALLAH and His Rasul say is kufr. Its misleading for people to present the Quran and Ahadeeth is this simplistic manner.
    1. Where did he mislead?
    2. I don't think he said they were sects. His answer was more about labels, and sticking to the labels as mentioned in the Qur'aan and Sunnah.
    3. Not sure what you mean by this one.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    I agree with med, thats very misleading what he's saying.

    He quotes the Quran saying that making sects is haram and after he says, he immediately says that "when you ask a Muslim what are you they some say im a Hanafi, Shafi .." ect.

    From the apparent hes obviously calling them sects.
    If you were in the clouds, Allah would raise us to you or lower you to us for battle.

    said this to the Byzantine troops when they retreated from the battle field to the fortified town of Chalcis.

    - Khalid ibn Walid

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fais View Post
    I agree with med, thats very misleading what he's saying.

    He quotes the Quran saying that making sects is haram and after he says, he immediately says that "when you ask a Muslim what are you they some say im a Hanafi, Shafi .." ect.

    From the apparent hes obviously calling them sects.

    I have just watched the video several times and I have to agree with the above. The schools are not sects and those who understand the schools they will not create divisions. Dr Naik needs to choose his words carefully as do we all since we are all responsible for what we utter. What is sad is that there will be some out there who in agreement with Dr Naik, will paint the madhabs as four separate sects.
    Mrs B

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouper View Post
    Be very careful before uttering even a word. Be very careful before you write even a single word. Instead of blaming others, lets spend some of our time checking our state of belief with how the characters of a Muslim should be by reading Qur'an and also examples of those who followed this religion before. Then decide whether we are not mistakenly one of the kuffar or hypocrites.

    Uh. They are kuffar, that is unanimously agreed by all the Ulema.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    3. Not sure what you mean by this one.
    He says to the effect that whatever Zakir Naik says is zero, but what ALLAH Ta'ala says is true which we can all agree with. Then he goes on to say along the lines that that's why I always quote the references of Quran and authentic ahadeeth. He is saying that he isn't giving his own opinion on anything but merely relaying what ALLAH and His Rasul are saying. If this is true then you have to agree with every single thing Zakir Naik says because he says nothing of his own opinion, is quoting Quran and Authentic Ahadeeth, and is giving the references so one can check him out. And the reason you have to agree with everything is, according to Zakir's PoV, he is only relaying what ALLAH and His Rasul are saying and it is kufr to reject what They tell us.

    e.g. We are living in the era of Sayyiduna Rasulullah . We ask a question, Sayyiduna Rasulullah gives the answer. How is it if we reject that and say no, rather this is correct? That's kufr. Sayyiduna Rasulullah has told you something and you reject it and bring your own mind into it - that's kufr, no two ways about it.

    But in actual fact we aren't living in Sayyiduna Rasulullah 's era and rather whatever reaches us, reaches us through intermediaries. And its their understanding upon which we rely. When you read a hadeeth kitab, that isn't the same as getting the order directly from Sayyiduna Rasulullah because the hadeeth only gives a partial picture. What if there are other ahadeeth on this issue? What if this hadeeth was specific to one person? What if this hadeeth is narrated with a different wording? etc etc.

    Point being - some people try and act like today we are in the era of Sayyiduna Rasulullah and that the same rules apply. The reality is no-one follows just the Quran and Authentic Ahadeeth, everyone follows it through someone's mind, through someone's intellect.

    How can I say this?

    Very simple. The ahadeeth are before us, yet the one's who claim to the direct followers of the ahadeeth alone without any third party interference are the group with the most disparate understanding and application. If every Muslim were to go and follow the Quran and Authentic Ahadeeth alone, in reality we would have every person following these as he understood it and rather than 4 "sects" you'd have as many "sects" as there are Muslims.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    You've got the wrong end of the stick there because his stance, according to his talks in general, doesn't seem to be that anyone can just go to Qur'aan and Hadeeth and interpret it as they see fit.

    If you watch some of the Q&A sessions, a lot of the kuffar actually quote ayaat and ahadeeth. Zakir Naik tells them their understanding is incorrect, and the proper is context is... so this shows that he does not believe or promote that one should derive rulings and beliefs soley based on reading a few verses.

    As for the madhab/sect issue. The question was about sects but I think there was a little confusion between a sect and a label. Zakir Naik was was saying we shouldn't label ourselves as Hanafi, Hanbali, Salafi etc. So he was talking about labels but it's easy to assume he regards them as sects (I don't know if he does but I doubt it) since that was what the question was about. But, it is worth mentioning that some people have sectarian views when it comes to the madhab, not praying/marrying with someone from another madhab.

    I suspect these criticisms are aimed at Zakir Naik in general rather than this video alone. Even though I disagree with a lot of what he says, I think he's right on this time.

    Allaahu 'alam.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Well it is gud he mentions context in other talks, he should have mentioned context when he spoke abt the 4 Imams and their fatwah flinging wall statement.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    Well it is gud he mentions context in other talks, he should have mentioned context when he spoke abt the 4 Imams and their fatwah flinging wall statement.
    What should he have said?

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    If an act of Worship was not done by the Prophet PBUH then i want nothing do with it simple as that. But that apparently qualifies you as a Wahabi now a days. . However nowaday we have Ulema who seem to be giving Fatwas like mortgage is halal on your first house, working in Tesco is perfectly halal all under the umbrella of Abu hanifa i refuse to accept that.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Kaan ko seedha pakro ya ulta, baat wahi muqallid aur ghair-e-muqallid ki aati hai.

    All it boils down to being a Muqallid or Non-Muqallid. Whenever a Ahle-Hadees or Salafi is quoted, it is bound to happen that he or she will get harsh treatment from Blind followers of the great Imams.

    This will go on till the arrival of Imam Mehdi (Wallaho-Alam)

    So this is an everlasting tug-of-war, where nobody wins. Enjoy the game.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    What should he have said?
    summarising: Those statements were directed to high-caliber students who were scholars in their own right and who were well aware of the scholarly heritage of respected Mujtahid. The statements are meant for those who know the principles upon which the Mujtahid works, the ahadeeth that are before him, and how he came to his ruling.

    It doesn't apply to every Zayd, Amr and Bakr that oh I've found this hadeeth in Bukhari so if Abu Haneefah had had Bukhari he would have followed this so Im a true hanafi.

    On one occasion Imam Ghazali, (I think they were Shafi'ee?) wrote regarding a hadeeth "This hadeeth did not reach Abu Haneefah; had it reached him, he would not have excepted." In reply Ibn al-Humam wrote "This is all because of their lack of knowledge of the school of Abu Haneefah. To say that the hadeeth didn't reach him is incorrect, for it is mentioned in his hadeeth collection"
    [Sullam al Wusul 2:480]
    Point being that just because we come across an "authentic hadeeth" and the Mujtahid Imam's ruling is apparently contrary to that, does not mean that the Mujtahid Imam was unaware of the hadeeth. If we don't even know what hadeeth or what principles an Imam works on, then how can we ever say that "had this hadeeth reached Abu Haneefah he would have followed it"?

    Here's another quote:

    Humayd ibn Ahmad al Basri said "I was with Ahmad ibn Hambal and we were discussing a legal issue . A man said to Ahmad "Oh Abu Abdullah! There is no saheeh hadeeth about it!" Ahmad replied "If there is no saheeh hadeeth about it, then there is the opinion of Shafi'ee, and his proof is the most reliable proof" He then mentioned to the man a situation that occured between him and Shafi'ee to prove that whenever Shafi'ee issues an opinion, it is always backed by proof from the sunnah, but we (i.e. the likes of Imam Ahmad) are sometimes unaware of it.
    [Bayhaqi, Manaqib ash-Shafi'ee 2:154]
    Point being that even a great hadeeth scholar and faqeeh like Imam Ahmad was humble enough and had such a high opinion and reliance upon Imam Shafi'ee that he says even if I am unaware of the reason, I am convinced that Imam Shafi'ee has a solid proof from the sunnah for his opinion.

    If great muhaddith and faqeeh like Imam Ahmad can have such confidence in such people, then so can we.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by khushdost View Post
    Kaan ko seedha pakro ya ulta, baat wahi muqallid aur ghair-e-muqallid ki aati hai.

    All it boils down to being a Muqallid or Non-Muqallid. Whenever a Ahle-Hadees or Salafi is quoted, it is bound to happen that he or she will get harsh treatment from Blind followers of the great Imams.

    This will go on till the arrival of Imam Mehdi (Wallaho-Alam)

    So this is an everlasting tug-of-war, where nobody wins. Enjoy the game.
    everyone is a muqallid but some people dont like admitting it
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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Excuse my ignorance on this matter as i've not got access to utube at work so hence havent watched the video.

    But from what people have said about the video the Prophet saw himself said that his ummah will be split into 73 sects so how is having sects classed as haram.

    Also didn't Imam Abu Bukhari follow the Shafi madhab.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Whilst I believe and even encourage following scholars (all of them, not just sticking to one madhab), most issues in Islaam are pretty easy to understand and follow.

    Being a layman in general doesn't mean one is ignorant of eveything.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    Being a layman in general doesn't mean one is ignorant of eveything.
    That's true. But all knowledge a person has is dependent on the knowledge of others. How does a layperson know what a sajdah is? How does a layperson how many raka'at fajr is? All knowledge we have is bound in the transmission from those before us.

    And so long as a person accepts that we have to do taqleed of ulama then the rest is really a minor issue. The problem is when people claim that they are following the Quran and Hadeeth only, when clearly they aren't.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Sects and Different Schools of thought are only reality if you seperate yourself from others by them/follow them exclusively in my opinion.

    Otherwise, we are Muslims, all the same, all part of one Ummah, struggling to become mutaqeen by acquiring knowledge from various authentic sources.

    There are Munafeeq's in all of these supposed 'sects' and schools of thought.

    Sects\Schools of thought did not exist in our beloved Prophet PBUH's time.

    What Hadith are their from Sahih Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi speaking of them?

    All my humble opinion.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightuk16 View Post
    Also didn't Imam Bukhari follow the Shafi madhab.
    I believe the ulama differed on Imam Bukhari. Some say he was Hambali, some say Shafi'ee, others that he was an Absolute Mujtahid in his own right. ALLAH knows best, but according to a number of my teachers, Imam Bukhari was a Mujtahid in his own right and their Saheeh was also their fiqh kitab but their madhab didn't survive.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewParent View Post
    Sects\Schools of thought did not exist in our beloved Prophet PBUH's time.
    .
    I don't think sects and schools of thought are interchangeable.

    And whilst I agree that schools of thought did not exist in Sayyiduna Rasulullah 's era; but certainly in the era of the Sahaabah Karaam they exited, or their foundations were being laid.

    One could say that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar is the foundation of the Maliki school, that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbas is the foundatoin of the Shafi'ee school and that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Mas'ud is the foundation of the Hanafi school.

    ALLAH knows best.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Med,

    The problem is when people, upon being present with Qur'aan and Sunnah, prefer to follow their shuyookh.

    True, every layman is a muqallid but that doesn't mean we pick one set of scholars and stick to them in everything they say. The scholars and students I usually take from, I disagree with them on many issues.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    Med,

    The problem is when people, upon being present with Qur'aan and Sunnah, prefer to follow their shuyookh.

    True, every layman is a muqallid but that doesn't mean we pick one set of scholars and stick to them in everything they say. The scholars and students I usually take from, I disagree with them on many issues.
    Its a simplistic arguement. The first implication is that the Ulama who one follows are going against the Quran and the Sunnah. The second implication is that there is no evidence for what these Ulama are saying. If we understood what hadeeth are and had an overview of how the science of hadeeth work then we'd realise that these differences do exist and that it's not simply "following the Quran and Sunnah". The third implication is that it's Quran + Sunnah Vs Shaykh. No1 is following the Quran and Sunnah without something inbetween, if people can't accept this then there's no point in any further explanation. Everyone of us follows the Quran and Sunnah with understanding. So it's a false premise.

    It should rather be Quran and Sunnah plus which understanding? Having a difference in understanding is legitimate but only if a person has the qualification and education for it. Otherwise, there's no thought police to stop any Muslim from his own understanding, but he's not being intelligent and is putting himself and his deen at risk.
    Last edited by Medievalist; 20-08-09 at 12:35 PM.
    Rajab is a month of cultivation, Shaban is month of irrigating the fields, and the month of Ramadhan is a month of reaping and harvesting.”

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    True, every layman is a muqallid but that doesn't mean we pick one set of scholars and stick to them in everything they say. The scholars and students I usually take from, I disagree with them on many issues.
    Why shouldnt he stick to everything they say ... unless he doesn't trust them?
    If you were in the clouds, Allah would raise us to you or lower you to us for battle.

    said this to the Byzantine troops when they retreated from the battle field to the fortified town of Chalcis.

    - Khalid ibn Walid

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    I don't think sects and schools of thought are interchangeable.

    And whilst I agree that schools of thought did not exist in Sayyiduna Rasulullah 's era; but certainly in the era of the Sahaabah Karaam they exited, or their foundations were being laid.

    One could say that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar is the foundation of the Maliki school, that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbas is the foundatoin of the Shafi'ee school and that Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Mas'ud is the foundation of the Hanafi school.

    ALLAH knows best.
    But Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar and Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Abbas were not sent by Allah to convey the message of Islam and be the guide for muslims.

    Your right bro, Allah knows best.

    These things have little benefit for us as long as we are sincere in our intentions to be a good muslim, then Insha'Allah we will be guided correctly.

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fais View Post
    Why shouldnt he stick to everything they say ... unless he doesn't trust them?
    I agree. Those scholars dedicate their life to Islam, teaching, interpreting and understanding. They have a better understanding that we do. If we normal lay people decide to interpret and impliment the Koran and Sunnah then surely we'd do it wrong and it'd be stupid and an unintelligent act. We don't have Islamic knowledge to arrive at the right answer. We could mistakenly give new meaning to the word of Allah swt and that's a grave sin.

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm What is a Madhhab? Why is it necessary to follow one?

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Med,

    It is you who is making simplistic arguments.

    I'm on my PDA and it's too fiddly to copy/paste every point to answer it so I'll just keep it brief.

    You are implying that someone that is upon Qur'aan and Sunnah cannot make a mistake, have an incorrect understanding or arrive at an incorrect ruling for a particular issue. If a scholar makes some mistakes it some relatively minor fiqh issues, it doesn't negate everything else he has done. Nor does it mean that we follow him in his mistakes.

    Your second and third points are linked so I'll answer them together. Actually, I just answer with a question.

    What about beliefs/practice that have no basis in Qur'aan and Sunnah? Do we just assume that maulana sahib said it so it must have some sort of basis?

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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by asalamualikum View Post
    Asalamualikum everyone, this is my first of many posts inshallah on this forum.

    Lately I have been very confused regarding this whole matter of various sects in islam and every sect believing they are the correct one. I very recently came across this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVfTENzcKaU

    In my opinion is it short and to the point and clears up any confusion people have over sects.

    What are other peoples opinion on this? I do not mean to offend anyone from any sect, but having viewed this video do you think its better to simply class yourself as a Muslim, as oppose to sunni muslim, shia etc.

    Thanks guys.
    masha Allah hes absolutely right, if anyone truly respects the imams of the madhabs , then they would do as they said. explained by zakir niak from 1.55 onwards.
    "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

    The Prophet said:

    "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

    muslim

    Narrated 'Abdullah:

    The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


    "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

    By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

    [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]


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    Re: Dr Zakir Naik response to confusion over sects; Wahabi, Sunni, Hanafi, Shia etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ~asiya~ View Post
    masha Allah hes absolutely right, if anyone truly respects the imams of the madhabs , then they would do as they said. explained by zakir niak from 1.55 onwards.
    The advice of the Imam's (Ra) was given to their students, who were Mujtahids themselves, it wasn't given to every Zayd, Amr and Bakr (as mentioned by med ).
    If you were in the clouds, Allah would raise us to you or lower you to us for battle.

    said this to the Byzantine troops when they retreated from the battle field to the fortified town of Chalcis.

    - Khalid ibn Walid


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