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  1. #1
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    pakistani's and caste...

    salamz...does anyone have any info which clearly states the wrong-ness in looking at caste before choosing a partner??
    Please Re-update your Signature

  2. #2
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Look up the marriage of Julaybib (ra) which was arranged by the Prophet (saw). Julaybib either didn't belong to a tribe or else he belonged to a tribe which was considered to be of very low status. He was also disfigured but he was very pious and dear to the Prophet (saw). The Prophet (saw) arranged Julaybib's (ra) marriage to a woman who was the daughter of a wealthy man from an influential family with high status. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Prophet (saw) married an Ethiopian woman even though he was Arab and he arranged the marriage of Bilal (ra) to an Arab woman even though he was black African too.

    Another example (although it's not specific to marriage as such) I don't remember it too well so if anyone has the actual hadith on this issue then by all means paste it. It is about a Jew that went and interacted with some people in Medina, with the intention of causing fitnah (division and discord among the Muslims). He knew that the Muslims mainly comprised of 'muhajirs' from Mecca and 'Ansar' from Medina. He got into an argument with someone and they started calling upon their fellow tribesmen for help. One of the men called out "Oh Muhajirs (come and help me)!" whilst the other called out "Oh Ansar!" so more people came and got involved in the dispute. When the Prophet (saw) found out, he became annoyed and said to his people something to his people along the lines of "You are calling for/following the ways of jahiliya (ignorance/backwardness) whilst I am still among you"- meaning that he viewed allying on the basis of tribes instead of deen as being something ignorant and backward.

  3. #3
    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Zaid bin Haritha(ra) was a freed slave he was married to Zainab the cousin of prophet(saw) although they did get divorced after but the purpose of their marriage was to show that islam believes in equality.

  4. #4
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    pshht id never marry a chaudry
    Some claim that u are like any one of us, But who can claim, to have visited the Arsh? We say bashr, but respect is also due. For mankind are like rocks, but a pearl are u. U travelled the 7Heavens, and ur eyes did not lie. For Jibril could not pass, but u, O Madani, glided by.

  5. #5
    muftimenk.blogspot.com bhatti00's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    lol ^

  6. #6
    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMS View Post
    pshht id never marry a chaudry
    why

  7. #7
    Heart broken *crack* angel*'s Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique1 View Post
    why
    same reason i wuldnt go near a sheikh i suppose
    What we fail to recogonize in others, is what we will never see and understand in ourselves..Keep it real.

  8. #8
    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by angel* View Post
    same reason i wuldnt go near a sheikh i suppose
    y not?

  9. #9

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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by lillayzee View Post
    salamz...does anyone have any info which clearly states the wrong-ness in looking at caste before choosing a partner??
    If you'll look around a little, a few weeks ago a Muslim member posted several long articles in the General section, I think, about the caste issue among Indian and Pakistani Muslims. I'm pretty sure there was Qu'ran/Sunnah-related info in those articles.

  10. #10
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    i wudnt marry a raiiN either or a marasi
    Some claim that u are like any one of us, But who can claim, to have visited the Arsh? We say bashr, but respect is also due. For mankind are like rocks, but a pearl are u. U travelled the 7Heavens, and ur eyes did not lie. For Jibril could not pass, but u, O Madani, glided by.

  11. #11
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    I'll be honest I'd accept practically any nationality or origin but would be very reluctant to accept a Mirpuri rishta- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too cultural for my liking Maybe IF (trust me that's a very big IF cos' I've yet to come across any who fit that description) the guy was Islamically inclined enough to not carry the usual cultural traits I'd normally associate with Mirpuris then I'd maybe consider him but otherwise no way. In fact, that's largely true of guys of any origin- I'd want the guy to be Islamically inclined enough to not carry the jahil aspects of the mentality in his own culture wherever that is.

  12. #12
    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMS View Post
    i wudnt marry a raiiN either or a marasi
    dont forget the mochi
    it makes me want to know wat u are

  13. #13
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    salaam

    Once again im surprised but more so dismayed by the attitude of some ummah members (especially pakis, before u start, im one too)

    What makes you better than a 'marasi' or 'mochi'.....
    only one thing and thats piety, otherwise jat, mochee marasee, arain, sheikh,butt and all of the other million castes (left by hindus) are all the SAME!!
    what do you think Allah swt's gonna let you in jannah first just because your a 'choudhary' or jatt or whatever even though you openly disregard his (swt's) commands.
    Learn more about the deen ppl and less about your 'rasam' and riwaaj'l!!
    "Say: 'O My servants who have transgressed against your own souls, do not despair of God's mercy, for God forgives all sins. It is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.'" [Quran, 39:53]

  14. #14
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    /\ i agree, tsk tsk angel* and unique1, i am soo disappointed in you both astaghfirullah
    Some claim that u are like any one of us, But who can claim, to have visited the Arsh? We say bashr, but respect is also due. For mankind are like rocks, but a pearl are u. U travelled the 7Heavens, and ur eyes did not lie. For Jibril could not pass, but u, O Madani, glided by.

  15. #15
    ASSALAM 'ALAIKUM ALL! Um_yusuf's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMS View Post
    /\ i agree, tsk tsk angel* and unique1, i am soo disappointed in you both astaghfirullah
    You too mms, cheeky thing!!!

    "Say: 'O My servants who have transgressed against your own souls, do not despair of God's mercy, for God forgives all sins. It is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.'" [Quran, 39:53]

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    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMS View Post
    /\ i agree, tsk tsk angel* and unique1, i am soo disappointed in you both astaghfirullah

  17. #17
    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by Um_yusuf View Post
    salaam

    Once again im surprised but more so dismayed by the attitude of some ummah members (especially pakis, before u start, im one too)

    What makes you better than a 'marasi' or 'mochi'.....
    only one thing and thats piety, otherwise jat, mochee marasee, arain, sheikh,butt and all of the other million castes (left by hindus) are all the SAME!!
    what do you think Allah swt's gonna let you in jannah first just because your a 'choudhary' or jatt or whatever even though you openly disregard his (swt's) commands.
    Learn more about the deen ppl and less about your 'rasam' and riwaaj'l!!
    what did i do i dont mind if my hubbys marasi ,mochee, black, white green as long as hes a gud muslim

  18. #18
    ASSALAM 'ALAIKUM ALL! Um_yusuf's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique1 View Post
    what did i do i dont mind if my hubbys marasi ,mochee, black, white green as long as hes a gud muslim
    Sis

    i didnt direct this at you , its directed more at those who really do believe in castes and disregard what Islam says

    *hugs*
    "Say: 'O My servants who have transgressed against your own souls, do not despair of God's mercy, for God forgives all sins. It is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.'" [Quran, 39:53]

  19. #19
    sister in islam Unique1's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by Um_yusuf View Post
    Sis

    i didnt direct this at you , its directed more at those who really do believe in castes and disregard what Islam says

    *hugs*

    islam is 4 everyone and thats the beauty of islam

  20. #20
    Meeeow! Hiking's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    I hope you were all joking about mochi's etc!! Coz that is just not right Makes me grateful that I was born here and never lived there/got into that mindset. Pakistanis are pakistanis!! And pakistanis are just people, remember; the arab isn't superior to the non-arab
    It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that he heard the (Holy Prophet)[] say: A Muslim is he from whose hand and tongue the Muslims are safe.
    -Muslim




  21. #21
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    jokes aside how do people even know what the caste system is living in the UK?
    it doesn't belong to Muslims....it's a Hindu trait - we shouldn't even give it precedence

  22. #22
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    the castes don't really mean owt no more, coz people might say your mochi which means shoe welders and the caste sticks but you might have a good job and have people who claim to be from higher castes working for you so like its just silly
    Some claim that u are like any one of us, But who can claim, to have visited the Arsh? We say bashr, but respect is also due. For mankind are like rocks, but a pearl are u. U travelled the 7Heavens, and ur eyes did not lie. For Jibril could not pass, but u, O Madani, glided by.

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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    it is shameful that ppl still consider caste and openly say that they wouldn't associate with a certain caste. I seriously don't want to associate with any culture or caste, just call me a muslim and that would be enough
    Please pray for my health. Jazak Allah

    I found the enemy and it is me.

  24. #24

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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMS View Post
    i wudnt marry a raiiN either or a marasi
    i bet ur a Masalee, you sound like one

  25. #25
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    heh...pakis
    " The issue in palestine will not be solved by the United States or any western country. It's not going to be solved by Dan Six Pack or Sally Soccer mom! " Anwar Al-Awlaki


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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Chaurdy in the house booooo to raja's

  27. #27
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    assalam alaikum

    i want to confess some thing..

    i like pakistani people because they are brave but i hate them because they are the most ignorant 1 in deen.. all bida in their culture and home but not all are 1..

    what kind of culture is this who asks bride to take with her all dowery???

    why pakistani people discriminates??

    and why they do dance togather in marraige?? i mean in free mixing???

    i apologise from my pakistani brothers and sisters ... it is not for you but for those who do this...



    wassalam
    Last edited by abood; 19-05-08 at 06:23 PM.

  28. #28
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by lillayzee View Post
    salamz...does anyone have any info which clearly states the wrong-ness in looking at caste before choosing a partner??
    you don't need info saying that caste is wrong........

    .......... can you find anywhere in the Qur'an or Sunnah, anything at all that mentions the caste system and following it?

    No.

    The absence of evidence for the caste system is reason enough not to follow it.

    If thats not enough though, there are hadeeths which state that piety is the number one consideration for a marriage partner. Are they a devout, practicing Muslim? That is what Muslims should consider in potential marraige partners

    Also, nationalism is forbidden in Islam. If nationalism is forbidden how can the caste system be advocated?

    If evidence from Qur'an and Sunnah is not enough, we can move on to what is obvious without looking at Qur'an and Sunnah.

    The caste system is a HINDU concept. You can read all about it in the teachings of Hinduism. You should also note that the only non Hindus that practice it are people whose ancestors at one time were Hindus. The reason for this is because when their ancestors became Muslim (in the case of Muslims who follow the caste system) they didn't reject the caste system as they should have, and a lack of education about what Islam teaches about the caste system has allowed it to remain. This is the only reason you find Muslims who still buy into the caste system.

    Even more obviously - the caste system is a complex system designed to keep the rich and priveliged rich and privaleged, and the poor and downtrodden poor and downtrodden. Whilst, thankfully, the Muslims that kept the caste system did manage to reject the worst excesses of it such as the absolutely despicable treatment of the "dalit" class who are considered sub human and considered to "contaminate" high class people even if their shadow falls on them..... how on earth, how on Allah's green earth, does anyone think that is a part of Islam when the Qur'an is so clear about fighting to end oppression until there is no more oppression?





  29. #29
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Regarding the last paragraph in my last post... and taking MMS's last comment into consideration, I don't mean to say that Muslims that follow the caste system are oppressors if they are following the caste system in name only........ however even doing this they are giving the system validity when it absolutely should not be. And choosing not to marry someone for their caste is actually doing a fair bit more than giving it validity.... the caste system is a complex apartheid system..... if someone in South Africa said they only want to marry another person who is the same classification as them (black, white, coloured) - even though the apartied system has been abolished we would still consider that dispicable. Same with the caste system.





  30. #30
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    I find it surprising the number of elements within Hinduism that have found their way into Islam, especially with regards Pakistani Muslims.

    It worries me that in this day and age, certain Muslims still place great emphasis on aspects such as caste when it contradicts the way of the Prophet (pbuh). Perhaps this is what happens when people are uneducated in Islamic principles and history.
    Last edited by Overseer; 19-05-08 at 06:58 PM.
    We blame our time though we are to blame.
    No fault has time but only us.
    We scold the time for all the shame.
    Did it have tongue, it would scold us.

    Imam al-Shafi'i

  31. #31
    ~ Allahu Akbar ~ dhak1yya's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    To be fair, I don't think its just pakistanis and hinduism - you get pre Islamic cultural aspects creeping into Islam in other places too. Its because when people accept Islam, its very hard to reject all the unislamic aspects of the culture/religion that they were before, because from within the culture its hard to see what is wrong with thee. So they find ways to get around what Islam is actually saying and claim things are okay when they are not.

    This is why "modernising" (which ought to be called "westernising") of Islam needs to be vehemently opposed. Cause its exactly the same thing.... just its happening now rather than a few hundred years ago.





  32. #32
    Heart broken *crack* angel*'s Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by MMS View Post
    /\ i agree, tsk tsk angel* and unique1, i am soo disappointed in you both astaghfirullah
    whaaaat?!:

    was just messing around - sorry if it went abit 2 far and seemed like i was in2 the whole thing..

    On a more serious note, this whole 'caste system' is complete and utter rubbish and any1 whose not so immeresed in tradition shuld be able 2 c it a mile away for being just that-rubbish.
    What we fail to recogonize in others, is what we will never see and understand in ourselves..Keep it real.

  33. #33
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    to be honest i think pakistani's pik n choose what they like about islam and then the rest of islam for then comes from culture.

  34. #34
    Troll Hunter Supreme Saif-Uddin's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naz2007 View Post
    to be honest i think pakistani's pik n choose what they like about islam and then the rest of islam for then comes from culture.
    this is the case with some other asians as well ...

    may Alllah Ta'ala save us from being among the Hypocrites,

    Ameen!


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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    im syed, but i may as well be arain, just as Bulleh shah refused his "caste" of syed in his poetry. this kind of thinking is pathetic.

    and yeah im Pakistani by origin.

  36. #36
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by RazielTemp View Post
    this is the case with some other asians as well ...

    may Alllah Ta'ala save us from being among the Hypocrites,

    Ameen!

    if u r european or an american u cannt blame asians until u have a strong prove! do think before speaking!

  37. #37
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiking View Post
    I hope you were all joking about mochi's etc!! Coz that is just not right Makes me grateful that I was born here and never lived there/got into that mindset. Pakistanis are pakistanis!! And pakistanis are just people, remember; the arab isn't superior to the non-arab
    hiking u r perfectly right!i m borned here and lives here and im proud to be pakistan rather than those who only has considered pakistan as top insulted country!

  38. #38
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    assalam alaikum

    i want to confess some thing..

    i like pakistani people because they are brave but i hate them because they are the most ignorant 1 in deen.. all bida in their culture and home but not all are 1..

    what kind of culture is this who asks bride to take with her all dowery???

    why pakistani people discriminates??

    and why they do dance togather in marraige?? i mean in free mixing???

    i apologise from my pakistani brothers and sisters ... it is not for you but for those who do this...



    wassalam
    bro,first tell me have u ever visited pakistan??????????
    i must say there are still many people who are living there life according to islam!and many are there who are doing the marriages according to islamic tradition!
    regarding dowery, i'l say only one thing, duaghters are the most beloved of mothers and its their wish to give their daughter as many as they can give, as then they wont be giving as her anything as she wil be in her new home and wil be provided by every thing by her husband!
    thirdly, u said they discriminates????????????its pakistanis or those UK ,AMERICAN, people who think they are superior?????????jus give an answer of this?if u have?
    forthly,about dancing!its the western people who comes here and spread the germs of their disgusting culture!
    hope im clear???
    wassalam,mishi!
    Last edited by c0508310; 20-05-08 at 04:09 AM.

  39. #39
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by c0508310 View Post
    bro,first tell me have u ever visited pakistan??????????
    i must say there are still many people who are living there life according to islam!and many are there who are doing the marriages according to islamic tradition!
    regarding dowery, i'l say only one thing, duaghters are the most beloved of mothers and its their wish to give their daughter as many as they can give, as then they wont be giving as her anything as she wil be in her new home and wil be provided by every thing by her husband!
    thirdly, u said they discriminates????????????its pakistanis or those UK ,AMERICAN, people who think they are superior?????????jus give an answer of this?if u have?
    forthly,about dancing!its the western people who comes here and spread the germs of their disgusting culture!
    hope im clear???
    wassalam,mishi!
    assalam alaikum

    firstly i am sister

    i have visited karachi only 1 time and i really liked pakistan and pakistani people.

    i have seen only few people who live according to islam but they still have some hindu culture.

    and regarding dowery..FATIMAH(ra) the daughter of the 2 world was also beloved to him(peace be upon him) but he gave very little things to her when she married.. secondly it is the hindu culture.. and i said that "what kind of culture is this who asks bride to take with her all dowery???"
    i mean to say that i saw and heard that groom family asks bride to bring every thing with her including "fan and plates"
    so what kind of people they are???
    are they poor people??? don't they shy to ask some and especially from bride??
    isn't its great thing that a father is giving her daughter to him????
    they don't have bed to let bride sleep??? don't have plates to let bride eat???

    and about discrimination... pakistani are the worst in discriminating...i have heard that pakistani hates bangali and they treat they worstly...

    i went to some bangali marraige.. they were my sister's friend.. and pakistani were also among them.. they were making fun of their wedding ..
    i have heard that pakistani people says that the 1 who eats fish are bangali... does that means i love fish and i became bangali???

    emirati loves fish so does that means we are bangali people???
    there are 4 province in pakistan and all people of 4 province discriminates among each other...
    i know more about pakistan and the people of pakistan

    and about dacing in freemixing wedding... its not driven out by western.. it is driven about by hindus....pakistan want to do what india want to do.... am i right???



    jazakALLAH khair

  40. #40
    Senior Member neelu's Avatar
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    Re: pakistani's and caste...

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    i have seen only few people who live according to islam but they still have some hindu culture.

    and about discrimination... pakistani are the worst in discriminating...i have heard that pakistani hates bangali and they treat they worstly...

    and about dacing in freemixing wedding... its not driven out by western.. it is driven about by hindus....pakistan want to do what india want to do.... am i right???



    jazakALLAH khair
    WS, You're absolutely right.


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