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View Poll Results: do you know the reall meaning of islam?

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  • no

    1 2.17%
  • yes

    43 93.48%
  • i guess

    2 4.35%
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  1. #1
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Question do you know the meaning of islam???

    assalam alaikum

    a question for all non-muslims...

    do you know the meaning of islam???

    i have seen that many non-muslim do say bad things to islam but they know little about islam...

    hope i would get answers...

  2. #161
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by dodi View Post
    Yes, I read his post. Your question to him and in your poll is obtuse as is your conclusion in your post to him that I quoted and replied to.

    Did you bother to read all the replies to your initial question? You got some decent and varied replies from decent and varied individuals.
    i don't need to read all posts.....
    decend replies???

    good
    may ALLAH bless him or her...

  3. #162

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    now it is general question.....

    so it means i was right that kuffar don\\\'t know any thing about islam and they just defame islam..
    I answered that I have some knowledge of Islam. I also said that Islam is a huge subject, and no one could presume to have a complete knowledge about it. Does this mean that I don t know anything about Islam ?

    No, of course.

    What is the *real meaning of Islam* ? 1,000 different people will give you 999 different answers.
    Is there a *real meaning* as opposed to an *apparent meaning* ? are there many *real meanings* ? are we supposed to write a book, or to give you an one-liner ?

    The answer is blowing in the wind.

    Anything else ?
    Last edited by ebolebo; 20-02-08 at 03:11 PM.

  4. #163
    Odan
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    i don't need to read all posts....
    Of course not, but, then, if you don't need to read all posts to decide kuffar know nothing about islam, you didn't need to ask the question either, did you?

  5. #164
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by ebolebo View Post
    In my personal view, Islam has grave problems, and could well do with a serious re-vamping.

    In my view of Islam, Shariah is a total no-no, treatment of women is despicable, contempt for non-Muslims is ridiculous, confusion between State and religion is dangerous, murderous expansionist policies are encouraged and the general atmosphere sets your clock back by about 1000 years.

    Apart from that, it s not so bad.
    where did you hear that??
    you read that from quran and sunnah??(treatment of women is despicable, contempt for non-Muslims is ridiculous,)

  6. #165

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    where did you hear that??
    you read that from quran and sunnah??[COLOR=\"Red\"](treatment of women is despicable, contempt for non-Muslims is ridiculous,)[/COLOR]
    Abood

    those are part of my conclusions on a series of subjects and, in itself, enough for at least 10 separate threads.

    If we start with *women in Islam* (a subject which has already been debated to death on here) you will need to have a look at inheritance laws, testimony, blood money, wife-beating, general subordination in marriage, dress code, polygamy, role of walis, divorce and custody, political rights etc etc

    If we start on treatment of non-Muslims, you will have to examine issues such as rights of *people of the book*, treatment of dhimmis in the History of Islam and of the Caliphate, statements about the *kuffar*, rules for jihad etc etc

    I have been involved in many discussions on these subjects, and i have drawn my own conclusions.

    I don t want to re-discuss everything all over again.

    If you want to discuss, choose one very, very limited issue, and open a thread on that

    best regards

    e

  7. #166
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by ebolebo View Post
    Abood

    those are part of my conclusions on a series of subjects and, in itself, enough for at least 10 separate threads.

    If we start with *women in Islam* (a subject which has already been debated to death on here) you will need to have a look at inheritance laws, testimony, blood money, wife-beating, general subordination in marriage, dress code, polygamy, role of walis, divorce and custody, political rights etc etc

    If we start on treatment of non-Muslims, you will have to examine issues such as rights of *people of the book*, treatment of dhimmis in the History of Islam and of the Caliphate, statements about the *kuffar*, rules for jihad etc etc

    I have been involved in many discussions on these subjects, and i have drawn my own conclusions.

    I don t want to re-discuss everything all over again.

    If you want to discuss, choose one very, very limited issue, and open a thread on that

    best regards

    e
    so you are running???

    well i was right about kuffar..

  8. #167
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    where did you hear that??
    you read that from quran and sunnah??(treatment of women is despicable, contempt for non-Muslims is ridiculous,)
    Either you have not read this:
    004.024
    YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
    PICKTHAL: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.
    SHAKIR: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
    or this
    004.034
    YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
    PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
    SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
    or this
    009.005
    YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
    PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    or this
    009.029
    YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
    PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
    SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
    or you see nothing wrong with them.
    Last edited by Babbage; 20-02-08 at 04:23 PM.

  9. #168

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    so you are running???

    well i was right about kuffar..
    As I said, choose one very limited subject, and we can discuss.

    To hold a general discussion on Islam is meaningless

  10. #169
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by ebolebo View Post
    As I said, choose one very limited subject, and we can discuss.

    To hold a general discussion on Islam is meaningless
    YES OFCOURSE....you cant bring what i have told you to bring.

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    YES OFCOURSE....you cant bring what i have told you to bring.
    Choose one limited subject.

    Wife-beating ? divorce ? custody ?

  12. #171
    Sit vis vobiscim RockPlace's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    YES OFCOURSE....you cant bring what i have told you to bring.
    You are not equipped to handle such a discussion then?
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.” ~ Galileo Galilei

    “The state of Nature has a law of Nature to govern it, which obliges every one, and reason, which is that law, teaches all mankind who will but consult it, that being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions." John Locke

  13. #172
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by ebolebo View Post
    Choose one limited subject.

    Wife-beating ? divorce ? custody ?
    errrm

    wife beating

  14. #173

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    errrm

    wife beating
    Well, babbage already posted Surah 4:34.

    There is some problem is in the interpretation of the *beat her* contained as the third degree of countermeasure for rebellious wives (admonish her, separate in the bed, beat her).

    Yusuf Ali, in his translation, adds *(lightly)* to the actual text of the Quran. Pickthal has no such qualms, and translates *scourge her`* Shakir has *beat her*

    You have then number of ahadith (including the *miswak* ahadith, which say that the wives should not be beaten with anything larger than a miswak; then, no bruises should be left; no beatings on the face etc etc

    To make a long story short:

    Already the fact that 4:34 enjoins women to be obedient, is a no-no for me. In see marriage as a relationship between equal partners. No obedience whatsoever.

    Then, the rest is even worse. The Quran says that disobedient women should be, as a last resource, beaten. Even if this is somehow limited by interpretation, ahadith ecc, the damage is done.

    Probably, 4:34 has *justified* innumerable wife-beatings in *Islamic* countries.

    Authorisation to beat the wife, even if by *symbolic beatings* only, is a total no-no for me. It is deeply humiliating, and illustrates once again the subordinate position of women in Islam

    Why are women not authorised to admonish their husbands, separate in bed , beat them (if, by any chance, they are weaker ?)

    On the contrary, the woman who does not accept her husband s sexual advances will be cursed by angels until morning (other ahadith)

    So, don t go any further : it is totally impossible for me to accept this subordination of women, and I find it despicable to teach these unbalanced views.

  15. #174
    Odan abood's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by ebolebo View Post
    Well, babbage already posted Surah 4:34.

    There is some problem is in the interpretation of the *beat her* contained as the third degree of countermeasure for rebellious wives (admonish her, separate in the bed, beat her).

    Yusuf Ali, in his translation, adds *(lightly)* to the actual text of the Quran. Pickthal has no such qualms, and translates *scourge her`* Shakir has *beat her*

    You have then number of ahadith (including the *miswak* ahadith, which say that the wives should not be beaten with anything larger than a miswak; then, no bruises should be left; no beatings on the face etc etc

    To make a long story short:

    Already the fact that 4:34 enjoins women to be obedient, is a no-no for me. In see marriage as a relationship between equal partners. No obedience whatsoever.

    Then, the rest is even worse. The Quran says that disobedient women should be, as a last resource, beaten. Even if this is somehow limited by interpretation, ahadith ecc, the damage is done.

    Probably, 4:34 has *justified* innumerable wife-beatings in *Islamic* countries.

    Authorisation to beat the wife, even if by *symbolic beatings* only, is a total no-no for me. It is deeply humiliating, and illustrates once again the subordinate position of women in Islam

    Why are women not authorised to admonish their husbands, separate in bed , beat them (if, by any chance, they are weaker ?)

    On the contrary, the woman who does not accept her husband s sexual advances will be cursed by angels until morning (other ahadith)

    So, don t go any further : it is totally impossible for me to accept this subordination of women, and I find it despicable to teach these unbalanced views.
    and do you know when you beat and seprate her from bad???

    or you have just saw it and did not tried to see what its actuall meaning???

  16. #175

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    and do you know when you beat and seprate her from bad???

    or you have just saw it and did not tried to see what its actuall meaning???
    There is no way that you can post one-liners as a response in this discussion.

    Please, take my arguments and respond one by one.

    It s a question of respect.

  17. #176
    Odan GothiKa's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Authorisation to beat the wife, even if by *symbolic beatings* only, is a total no-no for me. It is deeply humiliating, and illustrates once again the subordinate position of women in Islam
    You'll be surprised to read this

    A report published in 1980 showed that 24% of wives and 28% of husbands thought it was normal for couples to slap each other; 4% of wives and 9% of husbands even said that slapping was necessary. In another study from the 1980s, Gentemann found that 19% of the women she interviewed approved battering under some circumstances" (Matlin, 1993, p. 524)

    Matlin, Margaret W. (1993). The Psychology of Women. New York: Harcourt Brace College

    Of course, Islam neither permits battering nor does it permit slapping (since slapping leaves marks). I'd say that the prescription laid down by Allah compares far better than what ancient societies have regarded as acceptable martial behavior.

    In the past centuries, attitudes about battering were tolerant and even supportive. The French code of chivalry during the Middle Ages specified that a husband offended by a scolding wife could knock her to the ground, beat her face, and break her nose so that she would always be ashamed. Many similar laws persisted in modern times. For instance, a law that was in effect in several states until recently allowed a man to beat his wife with a stick, as long as it was no thicker than the width of his thumb. (p. 524)

    In Islam, a woman who shouts at her husband is not liable for a light tap on her back. After all, Umar(ra)'s wife berated him, but he, despite being a short tempered person, did not do anything about it. Why? Because his wife didn't go against the Shariah. It is only when a woman does something unIslamic that she is tapped.

    According to an Italian proverb, “As both a good horse and a bad horse need the spur, so both a good woman and a bad woman need the stick”. A Japanese proverb says, “Beat your wife on the wedding day, and your married life will be happy.” Finally, a Russian proverb advises, “Beat your wife with the butt of an axe; if she falls down, sniffs and gasps, she is deceiving; give her some more”.(p.521)
    Last edited by GothiKa; 20-02-08 at 06:15 PM.
    The definition of courage is to fight to the death in defense of religion, in defense of womanhood, of ill treated neighbours, of the oppressed who seek protection, or in defense of a lost fortune, honour which has been attacked, and other rights, against all adversaries, whether they be few or many.

  18. #177
    Odan GothiKa's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Sister abood, I request you to discontinue participating in this thread because, evidently, you are not mature enough to handle debates.
    Last edited by GothiKa; 20-02-08 at 06:31 PM.
    The definition of courage is to fight to the death in defense of religion, in defense of womanhood, of ill treated neighbours, of the oppressed who seek protection, or in defense of a lost fortune, honour which has been attacked, and other rights, against all adversaries, whether they be few or many.

  19. #178

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    You\\\'ll be surprised to read this

    [FONT=&quot]A report published in 1980 showed that 24% of wives and 28% of husbands thought it was normal for couples to slap each other;
    To slap each other. On an equal base, that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    4% of wives and 9% of husbands even said that slapping was necessary. In another study from the 1980s, Gentemann found that 19% of the women she interviewed approved battering under some circumstances\\\" (Matlin, 1993, p. 524)
    Probably, Gentemann enquired at the local masochist club. Women approve being battered ? oh, pullease.... OK, of course, of course. It s a sign of affection.
    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Of course, Islam neither permits battering nor does it permit slapping (since slapping leaves marks). I\\\'d say that the prescription laid down by Allah compares far better than what ancient societies have regarded as acceptable martial behavior.
    The rules contained in 4:34 sound quite OK for the 7th Century.

    IMHO, they sound hopelessly outdated now.

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    In the past centuries, attitudes about battering were tolerant and even supportive. The French code of chivalry during the Middle Ages specified that a husband offended by a scolding wife could knock her to the ground, beat her face, and break her nose so that she would always be ashamed. Many similar laws persisted in modern times. For instance, a law that was in effect in several states until recently allowed a man to beat his wife with a stick, as long as it was no thicker than the width of his thumb. (p. 524)
    This is contested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thumb

    However, it s irrelevant, since all this refers to the past; wife-beating is illegal in those countries now, and is treated according to the same rules as violence against unrelated persons.

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    In Islam, a woman who shouts at her husband is not liable for a light tap on her back. After all, Umar(ra)\\\'s wife berated him, but he, despite being a short tempered person, did not do anything about it. Why? Because his wife didn\\\'t go against the Shariah. It is only when a woman does something unIslamic that she is tapped.
    And this is wrong. Why hasn t the wife the possibility of correcting the husband in the same way ?
    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    According to an Italian proverb, “As both a good horse and a bad horse need the spur, so both a good woman and a bad woman need the stick”. A Japanese proverb says, “Beat your wife on the wedding day, and your married life will be happy.” Finally, a Russian proverb advises, “Beat your wife with the butt of an axe; if she falls down, sniffs and gasps, she is deceiving; give her some more”.(p.521)
    You don t need to write a volume in order to demonstrate that wife-beating was and is practiced (and even authorised, until recently) in many countries and cultures.

    You could produce statistics about the UK, the US, etc which show that wife-beating still takes place quite often.

    No, it s about authorizing it and giving it the legitimacy which, in Islamic societies, only a verse from the Quran can give.

    And this is, for me unacceptable, since I deeply believe in equal dignity, equal position and equal rights of husband and wife.

    So, as I said, this is a total no-no in my book (OK, one of the total no-nos... there are many other...)

    Best regards

    e
    Last edited by ebolebo; 20-02-08 at 06:57 PM.

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Sister abood, I request you to discontinue participating in this thread because, evidently, you are not mature enough to handle debates.
    Hey, it s perfectly OK for abood to debate.

    However, she should realize that one should make, in his/her posts, the same effort made by the interlocutor. Answering to a one page post : *why is that so ?* is not really productive.

  21. #180
    Odan GothiKa's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Why hasn t the wife the possibility of correcting the husband in the same way?
    Because the husband is the government of his household. Since every government has the right to sort out individuals who disobey the law, the husband too can enforce propriety when the situation justifies it. Just as citizens who break law don't have the right to fight the police, the same way women who break the shariah don't have the right to tap their husbands back. However, women can fight back if they are beaten for reasons other than the violation of Shariah. A fatwa regarding this was recently issued in Lebanon.
    Last edited by GothiKa; 20-02-08 at 07:18 PM.
    The definition of courage is to fight to the death in defense of religion, in defense of womanhood, of ill treated neighbours, of the oppressed who seek protection, or in defense of a lost fortune, honour which has been attacked, and other rights, against all adversaries, whether they be few or many.

  22. #181

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by PiElle2 View Post
    hmmm... i realised it's not so much like just righteous actions... but starts with righteous intentions... just the slight difference... intentions require more thinking than just the actions... sometimes when see someone doing something you think is wrong, the person may not have bad intentions. yet when we see someone who does something right, not not have the best of intentions...
    PiElle,
    Thank you for your post.
    We do need agree to respectfully disagree on the pre-eminence of intention or action.
    It is not without merit that the adage goes, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
    Regardless of one's intentions, one is responsible for one's action.
    It is immaterial whether one meant well.
    What matters is whether one's actions led, even unintentionally, to harm.
    Thus, the excuse "It was not my intent to cause harm" has no value; only the act itself does.
    One is responsible for one's actions not one's intentions.

    I believe the difference in the Jewish versus Muslim (and Christian, ftm) understanding of this may reflect a difference in our understood purpose under G-d. The Jewish perspective of righteousness is more on one's acts upon another; whereas more often the Muslim and Christian focus is on righteousness as a personal accumulation by oneself. This is reiterated in the comparatively greater Jewish focus on world salvation rather than personal salvation, and the Muslim and Christian comparatively greater emphasis on personal salvation over world salvation. And again the comparative lack of Jewish concern/emphasis on the unknown Afterlife, and the Muslim/Christian personal concern/emphasis of gaining the reward of Heaven and avoiding the eternal punishment of Hell.
    and if you say she is blinded, what is to say you are not blinded by the light of your own window...? we are all blind in some ways... because we are not perfect, we dun have perfect vision... that's why we need others to tell us sometimes... unless you are adamant you can see everything... when someone try to tell us something... what do we do? use our ears to listen, then use our brain to understand... before making any decision...
    The difference, Pielle, (other than, I expect her youth and my more advanced years ) is I recognize the legitimacy of Islam and Christianity etc. as Paths/Windows to the same One G-d we all love and follow--as best we can.
    Thus, while I best see and experience the light of G-d, blessed be His Name, through the Path/Window of Judaism, I am not blind to the parallel Path's/Windows other True Believers have found best for themselves.

    Respectfully,
    History
    Last edited by History; 20-02-08 at 07:31 PM.

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Because the husband is the government of his household. Since every government has the right to sort out individuals who disobey the law, the husband too can enforce propriety when the situation justifies it. Just as citizens who break law don\'t have the right to fight the police, the same way women who break the shariah don\'t have the right to tap their husbands back. However, women can fight back if they are beaten for reasons other than the violation of Shariah. A fatwa regarding this was recently issued in Lebanon.
    You don t answer to my replies about the irrelevance of the examples quoted by you in your last post.

    However, let s go on: you say, *the husband is the government of the household* and therefore he can enforce etc etc

    I am aware that this is the case under Shariah. But that s not the point: the point is that I deeply disagree with this approach.

    On this thread, I was asked my opinion about Islam, and I gave my sincere opinion. One of the absolute no-nos I listed was the position of women in Islam. We then selected wife-beating in order to have a closer look.

    So, I can just confirm: I find it appalling that a verse of the Quran confirms the right for the husband to beat his wife. If this may have been *moderate* in the 7th Cnetury, now it s unacceptable.

    I don t accept, more in general, the principle that the husband is the government of the household. This idea used to be contained in our *Western* civil codes until about WW II, but has (luckily) disappeared now. Marriage in our societies is now based on an equal partnership.

    So, the point is simply that the subordinate position of the wife in marriage, (as provided for in the Shariah) is, for me , totally unacceptable.

    And, that s it.

  24. #183
    Positivity!!! ummbilal's Avatar
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    oops i voted and i'm a muslim.
    avatar from deviant art

    bring back PAGAL LADOOOO

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by myself View Post

    First of all, I hate creepy crawlies ...I am sure Dante could have responded to this but must have 'thought' he'd leave it to people like you . I don't recall saying he was not intelligent, may be that's how you understood it, which IMHO makes you the opposite .
    I really have no idea what you're talking about. I am speaking about a general attitude and frame of mind. inquisitive - open minded - intelligent and thoughtful. I have not pointed the finger at anyone accept for the alternative attitude to this which you seem to be defending.
    All of mankind is intelligent in their own way and ability, apart from the insane, of course. The crook on the street is also 'intelligent', he knows the ins and out of getting in to peoples cars/homes etc. So what?
    No. Only a few people are possessed of genuine intellect. An ability to think abstractly, logically, reflectively and with an open mind. On that one at least, Plato was on to something. Intelligence here involves an ability to critically analyse things.

    This is a Muslim forum, with many Muslims online, InshAllah. So the criteria here is to judge someone who is intelligent / knowledgeable is based on the Quran. Something you clearly do not posses. For eg you've said:
    Well, your criteria of intelligence is clearly 'adapted' in this case to suit your own purposes. There is nothing intelligent about accepting some assertions in an old book without giving that position a long process of thought and analysis.
    The Quran says, to list a few:
    • Verily, in Yűsuf (Joseph) and his brethren, there were Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) for those who ask. (Yusuf 12:7)
    • If you were to ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth... Al-'Ankabut - 29:61
    • If you were to ask them: "Who sends down water (rain) from the sky... Al-'Ankabut - 29:63
    • And if you (O Muhammad SAW) ask them... Luqman - 31:25
    So the Qur'an renders itself completely useless to anyone other than those people who already thought it was authentic anyway. Nice.
    Again you have clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding about Islam & Muslims, you've no clue and I am becoming more certain about my opinion of you as mentioned above.
    Which is what exactly. Do tell.
    I find it VERY discreditable that you class yourself as teacher and you are employed in such an establishment - sorry for going off topic .
    Well...ouch...that hurts. I find it very 'discreditible' that you breath oxygen which a more deserving organism might make use of, but we can't have the world the way we want it can we.
    Serious? I see why the society around us is getting worse, there are teachers employed of such low standards.
    Rhetoric. I think I will take the opinions of my professional colleagues and those of parents whose children I teach than yourself. But please - when you do have a point - get around to making one.
    Again let me 'enlighten you' from the source. The light, ie guidance is something that you or I or even the Prophet (pbuh) has NO power over...
    Assuming that such light exists. Demonstrate that it does and we can have a productive conversation.
    Guidance belongs to Allah. Should Allah decide to give it to an individual that is His will. Being 'intelligent' or possessing knowledge of Islam doesn’t warrant the light automatically.
    Then that's fine. I will leave it to Allah's will to decide when and where I recieve this 'enlightenment'. After all 'it's all in Her' hands not mine.

    The Prophet said to one of his sahaba, "May Allah give you 'understanding' of the deen”, and this sahaba was in the presence of the Prophet.
    Perhaps, perhaps not.
    Others around the Prophet, his enemies knew of his message but were unable to receive this light, the source was right in front of them...but they had no understanding, they were the deaf, dumb and blind .
    Really. What an interesting story. What a shame then that before one can receive such 'light' they must sacrifice their intellectual scrutiny of the world.

    Not upon you (Muhammad ) is their guidance, but Allâh guides whom He wills. (Al-Baqarah 2:272)
    Good. then it's Her responsibility if I do or do not find the light then. I will continue to get on with my life as a kuffar and feel pleasantly content since 'no one finds the light accept by Allah's will'.
    And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabarî). (Aali Imran 3:7)
    Accept they are not knowledgable because they cannot convince me or anyone else that they have anything bordering on objective knowledge.

    Considerations that are not more worthy than a mosquitos wing, Im afraid.
    A mosquito's wing - as with all aspects of insect biology, is incredibly 'worthy' and extremely impressive thanks. I am relieved that you have compared my considerations' to a physical structure present upon an organism which predate the dinosaurs. Cheers.

    Content? Naa, you're not content one bit.
    Oh, so you're telepathic now are you?

    You lead a miserable life , yes I am honest. One simple example is you've changed your avatar so many times as you are just not happy.
    Yup. You figured me out. Or...and I'm only trying this one on for size...I changed it because I like to have various different avatars reflecting any film I have recently seen, or album I've been listening to, or...anything that fetches my eye. Perhaps...

    The image of your avatar you portray just shows how ugly and miserable life you lead.
    It depicts Daniel Day Lewis in his recent impressive film incarnation, as Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood - a film i saw very recently. Though I'm not averse to being a successful and ruthless oil baron if that's what your implying.

    If I remember correctly, you have had many relationships and still are single, goes to prove, you are not at ease at all, you kept trying, yet fail miserably.

    Anyway let's not expose your private life it has no importance here.
    My 'private life' has no importance eh? Why are you so keen to publicize your opinions about what you think it might be like then? How odd.

    But please do continue... I'm intrigued. This could be good for the autobiography.


    Therefore with that attitude, don't expect any favours of seeing guidance from Allah. This clearly shows your arrogant manners. Again I have to point out, it makes me cry out of distress for the children you teach. Anyway at least this will now stand against you (sadly).

    I conclude with what I mentioned:

    And Allâh puts forward (another) example of two men, one of them dumb, who has no power over anything (disbeliever), and he is a burden to his master, whichever way he directs him, he brings no good. Is such a man equal to one (believer in the Islâmic Monotheism) who commands justice, and is himself on a Straight Path? (An-Nahl 16:76)

    [/QUOTE]

  26. #185

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by myself View Post

    First of all, I hate creepy crawlies ...I am sure Dante could have responded to this but must have 'thought' he'd leave it to people like you . I don't recall saying he was not intelligent, may be that's how you understood it, which IMHO makes you the opposite .
    I really have no idea what you're talking about. I am speaking about a general attitude and frame of mind. inquisitive - open minded - intelligent and thoughtful. I have not pointed the finger at anyone accept for the alternative attitude to this which you seem to be defending.
    All of mankind is intelligent in their own way and ability, apart from the insane, of course. The crook on the street is also 'intelligent', he knows the ins and out of getting in to peoples cars/homes etc. So what?
    No. Only a few people are possessed of genuine intellect. An ability to think abstractly, logically, reflectively and to with an open mind. On that one at least, Plato was on to something. Intelligence here involves an ability to critically analyse things.

    This is a Muslim forum, with many Muslims online, InshAllah. So the criteria here is to judge someone who is intelligent / knowledgeable is based on the Quran. Something you clearly do not posses. For eg you've said:
    Well, your criteria of intelligence is clearly 'adapted' in this case to suit your own purposes. There is nothing intelligent about accepting some assertions in an old book without giving that position a long process of thought and analysis.
    The Quran says, to list a few:
    • Verily, in Yűsuf (Joseph) and his brethren, there were Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) for those who ask. (Yusuf 12:7)
    • If you were to ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth... Al-'Ankabut - 29:61
    • If you were to ask them: "Who sends down water (rain) from the sky... Al-'Ankabut - 29:63
    • And if you (O Muhammad SAW) ask them... Luqman - 31:25
    So the Qur'an renders itself completely useless to anyone other than those people who already thought it was authentic anyway. Nice.
    Again you have clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding about Islam & Muslims, you've no clue and I am becoming more certain about my opinion of you as mentioned above.
    Which is what exactly. Do tell.
    I find it VERY discreditable that you class yourself as teacher and you are employed in such an establishment - sorry for going off topic .
    Well...ouch...that hurts. I find it very 'discreditible' that you breath oxygen which a more deserving organism might make use of, but we can't have the world the way we want it can we.
    Serious? I see why the society around us is getting worse, there are teachers employed of such low standards.
    Rhetoric. I think I will take the opinions of my professional colleagues and those of parents whose children I teach than yourself. But please - when you do have a point - get around to making one.
    Again let me 'enlighten you' from the source. The light, ie guidance is something that you or I or even the Prophet (pbuh) has NO power over...
    Assuming that such light exists. Demonstrate that it does and we can have a productive conversation.
    Guidance belongs to Allah. Should Allah decide to give it to an individual that is His will. Being 'intelligent' or possessing knowledge of Islam doesn’t warrant the light automatically.
    Then that's fine. I will leave it to Allah's will to decide when and where I recieve this 'enlightenment'. After all 'it's all in Her' hands not mine.

    The Prophet said to one of his sahaba, "May Allah give you 'understanding' of the deen”, and this sahaba was in the presence of the Prophet.
    Perhaps, perhaps not.
    Others around the Prophet, his enemies knew of his message but were unable to receive this light, the source was right in front of them...but they had no understanding, they were the deaf, dumb and blind .
    Really. What an interesting story. What a shame then that before one can receive such 'light' they must sacrifice their intellectual scrutiny of the world.

    Not upon you (Muhammad ) is their guidance, but Allâh guides whom He wills. (Al-Baqarah 2:272)
    Good. then it's Her responsibility if I do or do not find the light then. I will continue to get on with my life as a kuffar and feel pleasantly content since 'no one finds the light accept by Allah's will'.
    And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding. (Tafsir At-Tabarî). (Aali Imran 3:7)
    Accept they are not knowledgable because they cannot convince me or anyone else that they have anything bordering on objective knowledge.

    Considerations that are not more worthy than a mosquitos wing, Im afraid.
    A mosquito's wing - as with all aspects of insect biology, is incredibly 'worthy' and extremely impressive thanks. I am relieved that you have compared my considerations' to a physical structure present upon an organism which predate the dinosaurs. Cheers.

    Content? Naa, you're not content one bit.
    Oh, so you're telepathic now are you?

    You lead a miserable life , yes I am honest. One simple example is you've changed your avatar so many times as you are just not happy.
    Yup. You figured me out. Or...and I'm only trying this one on for size...I changed it because I like to have various different avatars reflecting any film I have recently seen, or album I've been listening to, or...anything that fetches my eye. Perhaps...

    The image of your avatar you portray just shows how ugly and miserable life you lead.
    It depicts Daniel Day Lewis in his recent impressive film incarnation, as Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood - a film i saw very recently. Though I'm not averse to being a successful and ruthless oil baron if that's what your implying.

    If I remember correctly, you have had many relationships and still are single, goes to prove, you are not at ease at all, you kept trying, yet fail miserably.

    Anyway let's not expose your private life it has no importance here.
    My 'private life' has no importance eh? Why are you so keen to publicize your opinions about what you think it might be like then? How odd.

    But please do continue... I'm intrigued. This could be good for the autobiography.


    Therefore with that attitude, don't expect any favours of seeing guidance from Allah. This clearly shows your arrogant manners.
    Or not.

    Again I have to point out, it makes me cry out of distress for the children you teach. Anyway at least this will now stand against you (sadly).
    Really? Well they seem fine so I shouldn't lose any sleep.

    I conclude with what I mentioned:
    Which wasn't much. But thanks.

    And Allâh puts forward (another) example of two men, one of them dumb, who has no power over anything (disbeliever), and he is a burden to his master, whichever way he directs him, he brings no good. Is such a man equal to one (believer in the Islâmic Monotheism) who commands justice, and is himself on a Straight Path? (An-Nahl 16:76)

    [/QUOTE]

  27. #186

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by PiElle2 View Post
    C'on.... no matter how much you can understand or empathise, you can never have the first hand feelings... dun tell me you know how pregnancy or giving birth feels like...
    Dear Pielle,
    Thank you for your post.
    Which point are you arguing?
    Abood's statement that one cannot have true knowledge of Islam unless one is a Muslim?
    Or that she cannot have true knowledge of Judaism (or Christianity) unless one is Jewish (or Christian, respectively)?

    Abood has suggested, contrarily, that the former is true but (for her) the latter is untrue [post #93].
    and if you go by your religion, you will still love her the same, right?
    True.
    And also, per my "religion", I will not treat her as I do not wish to be treated.
    However, it seems she has no similar compunction per her interpretation of her "religion."

    Respectfully,
    History

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by Babbage View Post
    The path to hell is paved with good intentions, someone said.
    People can very easily persuade themselves that they are doing right if they are doing what they want to do. We cannot know why we do what we do; we can know whether what we do is right much more easily. Torturing someone, for example, is wrong. The fact that the torturer thought they were doing it to spread democracy or to please god makes no difference to the wrongness of what they do.

    C. S. Lewis said:
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
    Great quote.

    Wish the Church's Inquisition had read it.

    Respectfully,
    History
    Last edited by History; 20-02-08 at 09:12 PM.

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Sister abood, I request you to discontinue participating in this thread because, evidently, you are not mature enough to handle debates.
    THis is apparent and appreciated.
    However, it does raise an important question.
    At what age are Muslims mature enough to debate, Gothika?

    Respectfully,
    History

    P.S. For most people, my opinion is....~40.

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Because the husband is the government of his household. Since every government has the right to sort out individuals who disobey the law, the husband too can enforce propriety when the situation justifies it. Just as citizens who break law don't have the right to fight the police, the same way women who break the shariah don't have the right to tap their husbands back. However, women can fight back if they are beaten for reasons other than the violation of Shariah. A fatwa regarding this was recently issued in Lebanon.
    Over a thousand years before Mohammed, the Greek playwright Aristophanes demonstrated who really holds the power in the household when in his anti-war comedy Lysistrata, the female characters in the play, led by the eponymous Lysistrata, withhold sex from their husbands as part of their strategy to secure peace and end the Peloponnesian War.
    You go girl!

    Respectfully,
    History

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by History View Post
    Over a thousand years before Mohammed, the Greek playwright Aristophanes demonstrated who really holds the power in the household when in his anti-war comedy Lysistrata, the female characters in the play, led by the eponymous Lysistrata, withhold sex from their husbands as part of their strategy to secure peace and end the Peloponnesian War.
    You go girl!

    Respectfully,
    History
    Seriously, I'm not familiar with the story here History. How did the women do this? I know that sounds like a silly question, but considering the attitude of men towards women (especially wives) throughout history, I wouldn't have thought that would be easy.

  32. #191
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by GothiKa View Post
    Sister abood, I request you to discontinue participating in this thread because, evidently, you are not mature enough to handle debates.
    jazakALLAH alf khair

    sister.....as long as they don't insult Prophet(peace be upon him) i will keep on discussing with them...
    and don't think i have no evidence......i was not in net....i will epy them
    inshaALLAH

    wassalam

  33. #192

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilist View Post
    Seriously, I'm not familiar with the story here History. How did the women do this? I know that sounds like a silly question, but considering the attitude of men towards women (especially wives) throughout history, I wouldn't have thought that would be easy.
    It is a great story. I hope you have time to read it and the earlier two related plays on war and peace.
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7700
    http://www.temple.edu/classics/lysistrata.html
    http://www.theatredatabase.com/ancie...hanes_005.html
    The more things change, the more they stay the same.
    Erev tov!

    Respectfully,
    History

  34. #193
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    "wife beating in islam"

    In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


    All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.



    The verse you mention has been greatly misconceived by many people who focus merely on its surface meaning, taking it to allow wife beating. When the setting is not taken into account, it isolates the words in a way that distorts or falsifies the original meaning. Before dealing with the issue of wife-battering in the perspective of Islam, we should keep in mind that the original Arabic wording of the Qur'an is the only authentic source of meaning. If one relies on the translation alone, one is likely to misunderstand it.

    Commenting on this issue, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

    "According to the Qur'an the relationship between the husband and wife should be based on mutual love and kindness. Allah says: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Ar-Rum: 21)

    The Qur'an urges husbands to treat their wives with kindness. [In the event of a family dispute, the Qur'an exhorts the husband to treat his wife kindly and not to overlook her positive aspects]. Allah Almighty says: “Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (An-Nisa’: 19)

    It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house. He is the head of the household, and she is supposed to listen to him. But the husband should also use his authority with respect and kindness towards his wife. If there arises any disagreement or dispute among them, then it should be resolved in a peaceful manner. Spouses should seek the counsel of their elders and other respectable family members and friends to batch up the rift and solve the differences.

    However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation. However, if there is a fear that it might worsen the relationship or may wreak havoc on him or the family, then he should avoid it completely.

    The Qur'an is very clear on this issue. Almighty Allah says: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah would have them to guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance); for Allah is most High and Great (above you all). If you fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family and the other from hers. If they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation; for Allah has full knowledge and is acquainted with all things." (An-Nisa': 34-35)

    It is important to read the section fully. One should not take part of the verse and use it to justify one's own misconduct. This verse neither permits violence nor condones it. It guides us to ways to handle delicate family situation with care and wisdom. The word "beating" is used in the verse, but it does not mean "physical abuse". The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.

    Generally, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure. He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives. In one hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

    It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help. If this disciplinary action can correct a situation and save the marriage, then one should use it."

    Dr. Jamal Badawi, professor at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, and a cross-appointed faculty member in the Departments of Religious Studies and Management, adds:

    "If the problem relates to the wife's behavior, the husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. In most cases, this measure is likely to be sufficient. In cases where the problem persists, the husband may express his displeasure in another peaceful manner, by sleeping in a separate bed from hers. There are cases, however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one.

    Even here, that maximum measure is limited by the following:

    a. It must be seen as a rare exception to the repeated exhortation of mutual respect, kindness and good treatment. Based on the Qur'an and Hadith, this measure may be used in the cases of lewdness on the part of the wife or extreme refraction and rejection of the husband's reasonable requests on a consistent basis (nushuz). Even then, other measures, such as exhortation, should be tried first.

    b. As defined by Hadith, it is not permissible to strike anyone's face, cause any bodily harm or even be harsh. What the Hadith qualifies as "dharban ghayra mubarrih", or light striking, was interpreted by early jurists as a (symbolic) use of siwak! They further qualified permissible "striking" as that which leaves no mark on the body. It is interesting that this latter fourteen-centuries-old qualifier is the criterion used in contemporary American law to separate a light and harmless tap or strike from "abuse" in the legal sense. This makes it clear that even this extreme, last resort, and "lesser of the two evils" measure that may save a marriage does not meet the definitions of "physical abuse," "family violence, " or "wife battering" in the 20th century law in liberal democracies, where such extremes are so commonplace that they are seen as national concerns.

    c. The permissibility of such symbolic expression of the seriousness of continued refraction does not imply its desirability. In several hadiths, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) discouraged this measure. Here are some of his sayings in this regard:

    "Do not beat the female servants of Allah";

    "Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands (beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you."

    In another hadith the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said: “How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then he may embrace (sleep with) her?”

    d. True following of the Sunnah is to follow the example of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) who never resorted to that measure, regardless of the circumstances.

    e. Islamic teachings are universal in nature. They respond to the needs and circumstances of diverse times, cultures and circumstances. Some measures may work in some cases and cultures or with certain persons but may not be effective in others. By definition, a "permissible" act is neither required, encouraged or forbidden. In fact it may be to spell out the extent of permissibility, such as in the issue at hand, rather than leaving it unrestricted or unqualified, or ignoring it all together. In the absence of strict qualifiers, persons may interpret the matter in their own way, which can lead to excesses and real abuse.

    f. Any excess, cruelty, family violence, or abuse committed by any "Muslim" can never be traced, honestly, to any revelatory text (Qur'an or Hadith). Such excesses and violations are to be blamed on the person(s) himself, as it shows that they are paying lip service to Islamic teachings and injunctions and failing to follow the true Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)."


  35. #194

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


    All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.



    The verse you mention has been greatly misconceived by many people who focus merely on its surface meaning, etc etc
    [/COLOR]
    abood

    this is not possible.

    You cannot simply cut-and-paste a fatwa in order to answer my points.

    -this fatwa doesn t deal with my remarks. It simply illustrates, from an Islamic viewpoint, the ayah and ahadith we already mentioned

    - most importantly, I made the effort of elaborating a personal approach. You should do the same.

    You can post of course an excerpt here and there, but don t think for one minute that posting this fatwa constitutes an answer to my points.

    In any case, the sheyk starts from this principle : *It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house*.

    In my view, this is totally wrong, and both partners should be on an equal footing. So, just this one phrase makes all the rest redundant.

    Best regards

    e
    Last edited by ebolebo; 20-02-08 at 10:31 PM.

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    status of women in islam

    'Abdullah b. 'Amr (r.a) reported Allah's Messenger as saying: The whole world is a provision, and the best object of benefit of the world is the pious woman.

    The Prophet said, "A woman acts for the people," i.e. she gives protection on behalf of the Muslims.

    "They ask your legal instruction concerning women, say: Allah instructs you about them..." [Qur'an 4:127]


    The Prophet said:

    "The best among you is the one who is the best towards his wife"

    Hadith - Muslim, #3468

    Abu Huraira (r.a) reported Allah's Apostle as saying: He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women.

    Hadith - Sahih Al-Bukhari 7.117 Narrated 'Aisha, r.a.

    The eleventh one said, "My husband is Abu Zar and what is Abu Zar (i.e., what should I say about him)? He has given me many ornaments and my ears are heavily loaded with them and my arms have become fat (i.e., I have become fat). And he has pleased me, and I have become so happy that I feel proud of myself. He found me with my family who were mere owners of sheep and living in poverty, and brought me to a respected family having horses and camels and threshing and purifying grain. Whatever I say, he does not rebuke or insult me. When I sleep, I sleep till late in the morning, and when I drink water (or milk), I drink my fill."

    ....'Aisha then said: Allah's Apostle SAAWS said to me, "I am to you as Abu Zar was to his wife Um Zar."



    oh that is soooooooooooooooooooo
    sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet MASHAALLAH

    i am proud that i am muslim women ALHAMDULILLAH

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by abood View Post
    [
    [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=\"Purple\"][SIZE=\"4\"]oh that is soooooooooooooooooooo
    sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet MASHAALLAH

    i am proud that i am muslim women ALHAMDULILLAH [/SIZE][/COLOR]
    OK abood, if you re happy, then everyone s happy

    Best regards

    e

  38. #197
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    Quote Originally Posted by ebolebo View Post
    abood

    this is not possible.

    You cannot simply cut-and-paste a fatwa in order to answer my points.

    -this fatwa doesn t deal with my remarks. It simply illustrates, from an Islamic viewpoint, the ayah and ahadith we already mentioned

    - most importantly, I made the effort of elaborating a personal approach. You should do the same.

    You can post of course an excerpt here and there, but don t think for one minute that posting this fatwa constitutes an answer to my points.

    In any case, the sheyk starts from this principle : *It is important that a wife recognizes the authority of her husband in the house*.

    In my view, this is totally wrong, and both partners should be on an equal footing. So, just this one phrase makes all the rest redundant.

    Best regards

    e
    first of all i will say...that you did not gave me evidence from your effort from quran and sunnah ...instead you took from Babbage post:
    Originally Posted by ebolebo
    Well, babbage already posted Surah 4:34.

    There is some problem is in the interpretation of the *beat her* contained as the third degree of countermeasure for rebellious wives (admonish her, separate in the bed, beat her).

    Yusuf Ali, in his translation, adds *(lightly)* to the actual text of the Quran. Pickthal has no such qualms, and translates *scourge her`* Shakir has *beat her*

    You have then number of ahadith (including the *miswak* ahadith, which say that the wives should not be beaten with anything larger than a miswak; then, no bruises should be left; no beatings on the face etc etc

    To make a long story short:

    Already the fact that 4:34 enjoins women to be obedient, is a no-no for me. In see marriage as a relationship between equal partners. No obedience whatsoever.

    Then, the rest is even worse. The Quran says that disobedient women should be, as a last resource, beaten. Even if this is somehow limited by interpretation, ahadith ecc, the damage is done.

    Probably, 4:34 has *justified* innumerable wife-beatings in *Islamic* countries.

    Authorisation to beat the wife, even if by *symbolic beatings* only, is a total no-no for me. It is deeply humiliating, and illustrates once again the subordinate position of women in Islam

    Why are women not authorised to admonish their husbands, separate in bed , beat them (if, by any chance, they are weaker ?)

    On the contrary, the woman who does not accept her husband s sexual advances will be cursed by angels until morning (other ahadith)



    where is evidence from quran and sunnah from your effort???

    first see what you are doing then tell me...

    don't tell me to give fatwah by my self....as i don't wanna fall in sin if something is wrong....
    so what i have given you is all from quran and sunnah....
    i don't know wether you have read it or not...its all up to you...

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    { ٱلرِّجَالُ قَوَّٰمُونَ عَلَى ٱلنِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ ٱللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ وَبِمَآ أَنْفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ فَٱلصَّٰلِحَٰتُ قَٰنِتَٰتٌ حَٰفِظَٰتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ ٱللَّهُ وَٱلَّٰتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَٱهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي ٱلْمَضَاجِعِ وَٱضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيّاً كَبِيراً }


    "Men are in charge of, they have authority over, women, disciplining them and keeping them in check, because of that with which God has preferred the one over the other, that is, because God has given them the advantage over women, in knowledge, reason, authority and otherwise, and because of what they expend, on them [the women], of their property. Therefore righteous women, among them, are obedient, to their husbands, guarding in the unseen, that is, [guarding] their private parts and otherwise during their spouses’ absence, because of what God has guarded, for them, when He enjoined their male spouses to look after them well. And those you fear may be rebellious, disobedient to you, when such signs appear, admonish them, make them fear God, and share not beds with them, retire to other beds if they manifest such disobedience, and strike them, but not violently, if they refuse to desist [from their rebellion] after leaving them [in separate beds]. If they then obey you, in what is desired from them, do not seek a way against them, a reason to strike them unjustly. God is ever High, Great, so beware of Him, lest He punish you for treating them unjustly."

    and you can do that only if they are:And those you fear may be rebellious, disobedient to you,........only at that time

    and yes i do agree with ALLAHs law because only matters to me is JANNAH and closeness from ALLAH...

    Hadith - Bukhari 4:460, narrated Abu Huraira (r.a)

    Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning."




    and yes why we do that that...who wants her husband to be angry and go out and have sex with prositute or other women.....
    surely it is a need of man...and the wife is the one who have to fulfil her needs...
    its better to listen husband then living husband fulfil his needs with other women.....
    and no women agrees that he husband sleep with other woman...impossible and no way and never.

    and if a woman or man want jannah and closeness to ALLAH then ofcourse he she have to obey the command of ALLAH and his prophet...

    Allah's Messenger said, "When a woman observes the five times of prayer, fasts during Ramadan, preserves her chastity and obeys her husband, she may enter by any of the gates of Paradise she wishes."

    what is the use of disobedence of husband???...it will be very good if we obey our husband then he will respect and love more...
    and it is better to fulfil the desire of husband then watching him going out with other women.....no women can allow that and never....so its better to fulfil the desire...nothing will happen and instead we will have jannah and love from ALLAH and love and care and respect from husband more and more.....

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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    how islam is beautiful mashaALLAH

    obey your husband and gets lots of returns by just obeying him...for example..

    ALLAH and HIS prophet (peace be upon him) will get happy...and then we will havelots of good reward and then we have paradise....
    and then we will have more respect and love and care from husband...and more...lots of GIFTS and in gifts there will be(delicious dinner,lots of gold,nice nice dress,etc)



    it will be eid every day

  41. #200
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    Re: do you know the meaning of islam???

    islam is the way to success and profit in this world and in herafter

 

 

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