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  1. #1
    A SISTER - Female Muslim Um Abdullah's Avatar
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    Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    assalamu alaykum

    http://umabdullah.wordpress.com/2007...i-is-its-gate/

    Hadith:
    (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    The narrators of the hadith (attributed to their narrations falsely):
    1_ Abdullah Ibn Abbas (radiyallahu anhu)
    2_ Jabir bin Abdullah (radiyallahu anhu)
    3_ Anas bin Malik (radiyallahu anhu)
    4_ Ali bin Abi Talib (radiyallahu anhu)

    The hadith has been shown\declared to be false\fabricated by the following scholars:

    Yahya Bin Ma'een
    Source: al Jarh wat-Ta'deel 6/99
    Su'alat ibn Junayd #185
    Tareekh Baghdad 11/205

    Ahmad Bin Hanbal
    Source: Tareekh Baghdad 11/49

    Ibn Hibban
    Source: al Majruheen 2/136

    Ibn 'Adi
    Source: al Kamel fi ad-Du'afa 1/311 & 316

    Al-Darqutni
    Source: Ta'liqat 'ala al Majruheen 179

    Ibn Al-Qaisarani
    Source: Dhakhirat al Huffadh 5/2578 - Tadhkirat al Huffadh #136

    Ibn Al-Arabi al Maliki
    Source: Ahkam al Quran 3/86

    Ibn A'sakir
    Source: Tareekh Dimashq 45\321

    Ibn Al-Jawzi
    Source: Al Mawdu'at 2/112-116

    Al-Nawawi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Asma' wal-Lughat 1/348

    Al-Mizzi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Kamal 11/462

    Al Dhahabi
    Source: Mizan al-I'tidal 1/415 - 1/110

    Ibn Hajar al Asqalani
    Source: Lisan al Mizan 1/474

  2. #41
    Abu Nusayba junaid123's Avatar
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmad-Ali View Post
    Abu bakr (ra) is my Caliif Ali (as) is my imam.
    Abu Bakr(rd) is my first khalifa, and prophet mohammad(sw) is my imam.
    Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is also reported to have said: “He who is very hasty and so bold as to pass verdicts is also bold in taking the path towards hell

  3. #42
    hitman al faqeer's Avatar
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    I dont see what u lot are arguing about , the hadeeth whether weak or not Saydina Ali like all the khulafaa rashideen were full of knowledge .

    and if a Sa7aabi like Abu huraira r.a. could have knowledge of the Future trials and tribulations then how cant Sayidina Ali r.a. be a learned sa7aabi ?

    How did Sayidina 7uthaifah ibn Al Yamaan know the knowldge of whom the Munafiqeen were ? why didnt Sayidina Umar Binal Khataab r.a. know ?

    I suggest you lot debate about anyone but that Sa7aabi day and age.

  4. #43

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cashew View Post
    The thing that confuses me is that the political explanation doesn't explain at all the "deification" of Ali.

    It's one thing to want someone to be kaliph, it's another thing entirely to say that the person you want to be kaliph is also omniscient and omnipresent and the "gate of knowledge" to Islam.
    It was not about electing Ali radhiyAllahu 'anhu as the khalifah. It was 'using Ali r.a' for their evil designs against Islam. Ali r.a wanted to be khalifah and this is proven by some narrations in hadith books like Bukhari. Some Persians who embraced Islam apparently but wanted to revenge Muslims used Ali r.a but the master mind of this conspiracy was a Jew hypocrite Abdullah ibn Saba.

  5. #44

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cashew View Post
    I hate to keep pushing this issue in my ignorant non-Muslim way, but I find the whole thing very confusing.

    We have this, for example:


    And Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers the like of whom have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dies or is killed, will you turn back on your heels? He who turns back will do no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful. (Quran 3:144)

    So we see that even very early on, Islam was extremely careful to stress the humanity of the Prophet (pbuh).

    It's not as though this were some sort of secret. It's right there in Qu'ran for everyone to read. And it's hardly ambiguous.

    Another thing: Muhammed as Seal of the Prophets. Another hardly ambiguous cornerstone of Islam. Muhammed as Final Messenger.

    And yet how would Ali get all these supernatural powers and characteristics without being some sort of prophet?
    Ali r.a having supernatural powers as shias claim is not supported by Quran, shias depend on what and how their scholars interpret Quran or their hadiths claim. And in the name of 'interpretation' you can call a wall a ball, easy to throw.

  6. #45
    A SISTER - Female Muslim Um Abdullah's Avatar
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    We all agreed that the Sahabah had knowledge, and their knowledge differed from each other.

    This thread isn't about this, it is about the authenticity of a hadith attributed to the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, that is used by the Rafidah to prove their false beliefs, and to revile other sahabah especially ones declared by ahl assunnah to have higher status.

  7. #46
    hitman al faqeer's Avatar
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debater View Post
    Ali r.a having supernatural powers as shias claim is not supported by Quran, shias depend on what and how their scholars interpret Quran or their hadiths claim. And in the name of 'interpretation' you can call a wall a ball, easy to throw.
    Who said they sa7aaba didnt have Super natural powers ? or at least Karamaat ? Better than the Awliyaa .

    Tell me something Mr. Know it all

    Do you know the story of 'Yaa Saariyatal Jabal' ?

    Of Saydina Umar binal Khataab radiyallahu anhu ?

  8. #47
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    source: http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/ha...y-of-knowledge


    Hadith About the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate [A Sunni Perspective]

    Ibn al-Hashimi of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

    In reference to the following Hadith:

    “I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.”

    It was related by al-Hakim, at-Tabarani and others. It was also related by at-Tirmidhi with the wording, “I am the House of Wisdom, and Ali is its Door.”

    Albani declared the Hadith to be Mawdoo (fabricated). Daraqutni labeled the Hadith as mudtarib (shaky), both in isnad and text. Tirmidhi labeled it is ghareeb (weak) and munkar (rejected). Bukhari said that the Hadith has no sahih narration and declared it un-acknowledgeable. Qurtubi said about this Hadith in al-Jame’ li Ahkam al-Quran: “This Hadith is Batil (false)!” Ibn Maeen said that the Hadith is a baseless lie. Dhahabi considered it a forgery and included it in his book on forged Hadiths. Al-Hakim declared that it is weak. Amongst others who dismissed the Hadith are Abu Zur`ah, Abu Hatim, Yahya bin Saeed, etc.

    This Hadith is narrated by many unreliable chains. These Isnads (chains of transmission) were deemed to be unreliable because they contain Shia, liars, and people accused of lying. It should be noted that Ibn Hajar and some others differed and stated that because there were so many unreliable chains–and because the meaning of this Hadith is not invalid–that collectively these many unreliable chains could constitute a level of Hasan. However, we do not agree with this position and instead take the opinion of Bukhari and the many others who deemed that the weakness in the chains could not constitute anything but weakness or forgery.

    However, even those who accept this Hadith do not interpret the Hadith in the same manner that the Shia do. The Hadith refers to Ali as a gate to the city of knowledge; yet, this does not impart exclusivity nor does it convey superiority of Ali over Abu Bakr or Umar. The Prophet similarly praised other Sahabah and it is incorrect to take a close-minded and dogmatic approach to this Hadith. Abu’l Mu`in al-Nasafi says in Tabsirat al-Adilla: “This Hadith does not establish the superiority of Sayyiduna Ali (over Abu Bakr). ‘I’m the city of knowledge and Ali is its door.’ A city never has only door (unlike a fortress). Rather, most cities would have…one (door) from each side.”

    In another Hadith, the Prophet refers to Ali as his brother, and the Shia use this as a proof for the superiority of Ali over Abu Bakr. And yet, the Prophet similarly refers to Abu Bakr as his brother, and this is recorded in the Sahihayn! What the Shia need to understand (and Allah help them to understand this seemingly intuitive concept) is that these are not praises of exclusivity. A man can have many brothers, not just one! We direct the reader’s attention to the following Hadith:

    “Let no door of the Mosque remain open, except the door of Abu Bakr.”

    (Sahih Muslim, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 244)

    In this Hadith, the Prophet even uses an expression of exclusivity (i.e. let no door…), yet we Sunnis still do not interpret this literally. Instead, we understand that these are expressions of praise. The other doors of the Mosque were not closed, as it is clear that this is a saying and it is meant simply to praise Abu Bakr. Furthermore, this Hadith shows that there are many doors, not just one. In the case of the Hadith of the city of knowledge, this reference is not to be taken literally: it is obvious that the Prophet is not in actuality a city. In other words, this is a saying not to be taken literally; it is praise of Ali and cannot be construed in the sectarian manner that the Shia view it. The reader should be reminded that those scholars of Hadith who overlooked the weakness of the various chains of this Hadith did so on the condition that the meaning of the Hadith be interpreted in the manner above and not in the Shia manner.

    In conclusion, the Hadith was narrated by weak and unreliable narrators (i.e. Shia, liars, etc.). It was not narrated by even a single reliable chain. As such, we are inclined to reject it, as was the opinion of the impressive list of scholars we mentioned above. We therefore reject both versions of the Hadith (i.e. the City of Knowledge and the House of Knowledge…).

    Umm Abdullah of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

    The Hadith (i.e. the city of knowledge…) has been shown/declared to be false/fabricated by the following scholars:

    Yahya Bin Ma’een
    Source: al Jarh wat-Ta’deel 6/99
    Su’alat ibn Junayd #185
    Tareekh Baghdad 11/205

    Ahmad Bin Hanbal
    Source: Tareekh Baghdad 11/49

    Ibn Hibban
    Source: al Majruheen 2/136

    Ibn ’Adi
    Source: al Kamel fi ad-Du’afa 1/311 & 316

    Al-Daraqutni
    Source: Ta’liqat ‘ala al Majruheen 179

    Ibn Tahir al-Maqdisi
    Source: Dhakhirat al Huffadh 5/2578 - Tadhkirat al Huffadh #136

    Ibn Al-Arabi al Maliki
    Source: Ahkam al Quran 3/86

    Ibn A’sakir
    Source: Tareekh Dimashq 45\321

    Ibn Al-Jawzi
    Source: Al Mawdu’at 2/112-116

    Al-Nawawi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Asma’ wal-Lughat 1/348

    Al-Mizzi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Kamal 11/462

    Al Dhahabi
    Source: Mizan al-I’tidal 1/415 - 1/110

    Abu Ali Efendi Abdullah al-Ujari of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

    In regards to the Hadith “I’m city of knowledge, and Ali is a gate”,

    Shaykh Albani judged the Hadith in “Jamiu sagir” (#3247) as “fabricated.”

    Shaykh Dhahabi judged the Hadith as “fabricated” in “Talkhees al-maudua” (1/115/#256).

    The Hadith is narrated from Ibn Abbas in al-Mustadrak as follows:

    [ 4637 ] حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا محمد بن عبد الرحيم الهروي بالرملة ثنا أبو الصلت عبد السلام بن صالح ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب

    One of the narrators is Abu Salat Abdus-salam ibn Salih, and he is a rejected narrator in accordance to majority of the Ulema.

    Mizzi in “Tahtheeb al Kamal” vol 18, #3421

    وقال أبو بكر المروذي سئل أبو عبد الله عن أبي الصلت فقال روى أحاديث مناكير
    Abu Bakr Marwadhi said: “I asked Abu Abdullah about Abu Salat, (and) he said: ‘(Abu Salat) narrated rejected (munkar) narrations.”

    وقال زكريا بن يحيى الساجي يحدث بمناكير هو عندهم ضعيف
    Zakariya ibn Yahya Sajji said: “(Abu Salat) narrated rejected narrations…he is weak.”

    وقال النسائي ليس بثقة وقال عبد الرحمن بن أبي حاتم سألت أبي عنه فقال لم يكن عندي بصدوق وهو ضعيف ولم يحدثني عنه
    Nasai said that Abu Salat is “not truthful.”
    Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Hatim said: “I asked my father about him, he said: ‘Not truthful for me; he is weak; I’m not narrating from him!’”

    Ibn Hajar in “Tahtheeb at tahtheeb” 6/#619

    وقال العقيلى رافضي خبيث وقال مسلمة عن العقيلى كذاب وقال ابن حبان لا يجوز الاحتجاج به
    Ukayli said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked).”

    Muslimat reported that Ukayli said: “(Abu Salat) is liar.” Ibn Hibban said: “It’s not permissible to rely on him.”

    وقال الحاكم والنقاش وأبو نعيم روى مناكير
    Hakim Naggash and Abu Nuaym said: “(Abu Salat) narrated munkira (rejected narrations).”

    وقال محمد بن طاهر كذاب
    Muhammad ibn Tahar said (about Abu Salat): “Liar.”

    Dhahabi in “Mizan” #5051:

    وقال ابن عدى: متهم.
    Ibn Adi said (about Abu Salat): “Accused!”

    وقال الدارقطني: رافضي خبيث متهم بوضع حديث: الايمان إقرار بالقلب (1). ونقل عنه أنه قال: كلب للعلوية خير من بنى أمية.

    Daraqutni said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked). Accused in fabrication of narrations…”

    Ibn Adi said: “The narration is fabricated by Abu Salat.”

    Daraqutni further stated: “…Abu Salat is the man who fabricated this narration…And the groups of people steal this narration from him.”

    Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about this narration and replied: “May Allah disfigure Abu Salat!”

    In regards to the chain in #4638 of Mustadrak:

    [ 4638 ] حدثنا بصحة ما ذكره الإمام أبو زكريا ثنا يحيى بن معين ثنا أبو الحسين محمد بن أحمد بن تميم القنطري ثنا الحسين بن فهم ثنا محمد بن يحيى بن الضريس ثنا محمد بن جعفر الفيدي ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب

    One of the narrators is Husayn ibn Fahm who was not strong.

    Ibn Hajar al Askalani in “Lisan al mizan” (Vol.2, #1266):

    قال الحاكم ليس بالقوى
    Hakim said (about Husayn ibn Fahm): “Not strong.”

    ذكره الدار قطني فقال ليس بالقوى
    Daraqutni mentioned (Husayn ibn Fahm) and said: “Not strong.”

    The House of Wisdom and Ali is its Door

    In regards to the Hadith in which the Prophet supposedly used the wording “House of Knowledge” instead of “City of Knowledge”, this was narrated in Tirmidhi. But Tirmidhi himself said about it that it was “munkar (rejected).” Bukhari said: “There is nothing authentic in it.” Ibn Maeen said: “It’s a lie.” (“Kashful hafa” 1/203)

    Shaykh Dhahabi said in “Talkhees Kitab al-Maudua” (1/116) that it is “fabricated.”

    Shaykh Albani said in “Jamiu as-sagir” (#3238) said that the Hadith was “fabricated.”

    Ibn Daqiq said that the “narration is not steady; it is fabrication!” (Sahawi in “Makasidal Hasanat”, p.54)

    Shawkani also said it is fabrication, and he included it in his book on weak narrations. (see Fawaid al-Majmua, p.348, #51)

    The same is the case with Ibn al-Jawzi. (see “Maudua” 1/349-350-351)

    Nawawi said in “Tahzeeb Asma wa Lughat” (p.480) that both versions of the Hadith (I am the House of Wisdom…and I am the City of Knowledge) are false:

    وأما الحديث المروى عن الصنابحى، عن على، قال: قال رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم -: “أنا دار الحكمة، وعلى بابها”((1)). وفى رواية: “أنا مدينة العلم، وعلى بابها” ((2))، فحديث باطل، رواه الترمذى، وقال: هو حديث منكر

  9. #48
    hitman al faqeer's Avatar
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Alijaan

    Albani ? declared dont use that words in front of me mate .

    Albani declared 50 hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari and muslim Dhaeef , and had his mistakes pointed out by many scholars of HAdeeth , so we dont take his word on anything . Try another one .

  10. #49
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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by al faqeer View Post
    Alijaan

    Albani ? declared dont use that words in front of me mate .

    Albani declared 50 hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari and muslim Dhaeef , and had his mistakes pointed out by many scholars of HAdeeth , so we dont take his word on anything . Try another one .
    and what about these.

    The Hadith (i.e. the city of knowledge…) has been shown/declared to be false/fabricated by the following scholars:

    Yahya Bin Ma’een
    Source: al Jarh wat-Ta’deel 6/99
    Su’alat ibn Junayd #185
    Tareekh Baghdad 11/205

    Ahmad Bin Hanbal
    Source: Tareekh Baghdad 11/49

    Ibn Hibban
    Source: al Majruheen 2/136

    Ibn ’Adi
    Source: al Kamel fi ad-Du’afa 1/311 & 316

    Al-Daraqutni
    Source: Ta’liqat ‘ala al Majruheen 179

    Ibn Tahir al-Maqdisi
    Source: Dhakhirat al Huffadh 5/2578 - Tadhkirat al Huffadh #136

    Ibn Al-Arabi al Maliki
    Source: Ahkam al Quran 3/86

    Ibn A’sakir
    Source: Tareekh Dimashq 45\321

    Ibn Al-Jawzi
    Source: Al Mawdu’at 2/112-116

    Al-Nawawi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Asma’ wal-Lughat 1/348

    Al-Mizzi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Kamal 11/462

    Al Dhahabi
    Source: Mizan al-I’tidal 1/415 - 1/110

    Abu Ali Efendi Abdullah al-Ujari of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

    In regards to the Hadith “I’m city of knowledge, and Ali is a gate”,

    Shaykh Albani judged the Hadith in “Jamiu sagir” (#3247) as “fabricated.”

    Shaykh Dhahabi judged the Hadith as “fabricated” in “Talkhees al-maudua” (1/115/#256).

    The Hadith is narrated from Ibn Abbas in al-Mustadrak as follows:

    [ 4637 ] حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا محمد بن عبد الرحيم الهروي بالرملة ثنا أبو الصلت عبد السلام بن صالح ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب

    One of the narrators is Abu Salat Abdus-salam ibn Salih, and he is a rejected narrator in accordance to majority of the Ulema.

    Mizzi in “Tahtheeb al Kamal” vol 18, #3421

    وقال أبو بكر المروذي سئل أبو عبد الله عن أبي الصلت فقال روى أحاديث مناكير
    Abu Bakr Marwadhi said: “I asked Abu Abdullah about Abu Salat, (and) he said: ‘(Abu Salat) narrated rejected (munkar) narrations.”

    وقال زكريا بن يحيى الساجي يحدث بمناكير هو عندهم ضعيف
    Zakariya ibn Yahya Sajji said: “(Abu Salat) narrated rejected narrations…he is weak.”

    وقال النسائي ليس بثقة وقال عبد الرحمن بن أبي حاتم سألت أبي عنه فقال لم يكن عندي بصدوق وهو ضعيف ولم يحدثني عنه
    Nasai said that Abu Salat is “not truthful.”
    Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Hatim said: “I asked my father about him, he said: ‘Not truthful for me; he is weak; I’m not narrating from him!’”

    Ibn Hajar in “Tahtheeb at tahtheeb” 6/#619

    وقال العقيلى رافضي خبيث وقال مسلمة عن العقيلى كذاب وقال ابن حبان لا يجوز الاحتجاج به
    Ukayli said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked).”

    Muslimat reported that Ukayli said: “(Abu Salat) is liar.” Ibn Hibban said: “It’s not permissible to rely on him.”

    وقال الحاكم والنقاش وأبو نعيم روى مناكير
    Hakim Naggash and Abu Nuaym said: “(Abu Salat) narrated munkira (rejected narrations).”

    وقال محمد بن طاهر كذاب
    Muhammad ibn Tahar said (about Abu Salat): “Liar.”

    Dhahabi in “Mizan” #5051:

    وقال ابن عدى: متهم.
    Ibn Adi said (about Abu Salat): “Accused!”

    وقال الدارقطني: رافضي خبيث متهم بوضع حديث: الايمان إقرار بالقلب (1). ونقل عنه أنه قال: كلب للعلوية خير من بنى أمية.

    Daraqutni said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked). Accused in fabrication of narrations…”

    Ibn Adi said: “The narration is fabricated by Abu Salat.”

    Daraqutni further stated: “…Abu Salat is the man who fabricated this narration…And the groups of people steal this narration from him.”

    Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about this narration and replied: “May Allah disfigure Abu Salat!”

    In regards to the chain in #4638 of Mustadrak:

    [ 4638 ] حدثنا بصحة ما ذكره الإمام أبو زكريا ثنا يحيى بن معين ثنا أبو الحسين محمد بن أحمد بن تميم القنطري ثنا الحسين بن فهم ثنا محمد بن يحيى بن الضريس ثنا محمد بن جعفر الفيدي ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب

    One of the narrators is Husayn ibn Fahm who was not strong.

    Ibn Hajar al Askalani in “Lisan al mizan” (Vol.2, #1266):

    قال الحاكم ليس بالقوى
    Hakim said (about Husayn ibn Fahm): “Not strong.”

    ذكره الدار قطني فقال ليس بالقوى
    Daraqutni mentioned (Husayn ibn Fahm) and said: “Not strong.”

    The House of Wisdom and Ali is its Door

    In regards to the Hadith in which the Prophet supposedly used the wording “House of Knowledge” instead of “City of Knowledge”, this was narrated in Tirmidhi. But Tirmidhi himself said about it that it was “munkar (rejected).” Bukhari said: “There is nothing authentic in it.” Ibn Maeen said: “It’s a lie.” (“Kashful hafa” 1/203)

    Shaykh Dhahabi said in “Talkhees Kitab al-Maudua” (1/116) that it is “fabricated.”

    Shaykh Albani said in “Jamiu as-sagir” (#3238) said that the Hadith was “fabricated.”

    Ibn Daqiq said that the “narration is not steady; it is fabrication!” (Sahawi in “Makasidal Hasanat”, p.54)

    Shawkani also said it is fabrication, and he included it in his book on weak narrations. (see Fawaid al-Majmua, p.348, #51)

    The same is the case with Ibn al-Jawzi. (see “Maudua” 1/349-350-351)

    Nawawi said in “Tahzeeb Asma wa Lughat” (p.480) that both versions of the Hadith (I am the House of Wisdom…and I am the City of Knowledge) are false:

    وأما الحديث المروى عن الصنابحى، عن على، قال: قال رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم -: “أنا دار الحكمة، وعلى بابها”((1)). وفى رواية: “أنا مدينة العلم، وعلى بابها” ((2))، فحديث باطل، رواه الترمذى، وقال: هو حديث منكر

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by ALIJAN1001 View Post
    and what about these.

    The Hadith (i.e. the city of knowledge…) has been shown/declared to be false/fabricated by the following scholars:

    Yahya Bin Ma’een
    Source: al Jarh wat-Ta’deel 6/99
    Su’alat ibn Junayd #185
    Tareekh Baghdad 11/205

    Ahmad Bin Hanbal
    Source: Tareekh Baghdad 11/49

    Ibn Hibban
    Source: al Majruheen 2/136

    Ibn ’Adi
    Source: al Kamel fi ad-Du’afa 1/311 & 316

    Al-Daraqutni
    Source: Ta’liqat ‘ala al Majruheen 179

    Ibn Tahir al-Maqdisi
    Source: Dhakhirat al Huffadh 5/2578 - Tadhkirat al Huffadh #136

    Ibn Al-Arabi al Maliki
    Source: Ahkam al Quran 3/86

    Ibn A’sakir
    Source: Tareekh Dimashq 45\321

    Ibn Al-Jawzi
    Source: Al Mawdu’at 2/112-116

    Al-Nawawi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Asma’ wal-Lughat 1/348

    Al-Mizzi
    Source: Tahdheeb al Kamal 11/462

    Al Dhahabi
    Source: Mizan al-I’tidal 1/415 - 1/110

    Abu Ali Efendi Abdullah al-Ujari of Team Ahlel Bayt writes:

    In regards to the Hadith “I’m city of knowledge, and Ali is a gate”,

    Shaykh Albani judged the Hadith in “Jamiu sagir” (#3247) as “fabricated.”

    Shaykh Dhahabi judged the Hadith as “fabricated” in “Talkhees al-maudua” (1/115/#256).

    The Hadith is narrated from Ibn Abbas in al-Mustadrak as follows:

    [ 4637 ] حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا محمد بن عبد الرحيم الهروي بالرملة ثنا أبو الصلت عبد السلام بن صالح ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب

    One of the narrators is Abu Salat Abdus-salam ibn Salih, and he is a rejected narrator in accordance to majority of the Ulema.

    Mizzi in “Tahtheeb al Kamal” vol 18, #3421

    وقال أبو بكر المروذي سئل أبو عبد الله عن أبي الصلت فقال روى أحاديث مناكير
    Abu Bakr Marwadhi said: “I asked Abu Abdullah about Abu Salat, (and) he said: ‘(Abu Salat) narrated rejected (munkar) narrations.”

    وقال زكريا بن يحيى الساجي يحدث بمناكير هو عندهم ضعيف
    Zakariya ibn Yahya Sajji said: “(Abu Salat) narrated rejected narrations…he is weak.”

    وقال النسائي ليس بثقة وقال عبد الرحمن بن أبي حاتم سألت أبي عنه فقال لم يكن عندي بصدوق وهو ضعيف ولم يحدثني عنه
    Nasai said that Abu Salat is “not truthful.”
    Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Hatim said: “I asked my father about him, he said: ‘Not truthful for me; he is weak; I’m not narrating from him!’”

    Ibn Hajar in “Tahtheeb at tahtheeb” 6/#619

    وقال العقيلى رافضي خبيث وقال مسلمة عن العقيلى كذاب وقال ابن حبان لا يجوز الاحتجاج به
    Ukayli said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked).”

    Muslimat reported that Ukayli said: “(Abu Salat) is liar.” Ibn Hibban said: “It’s not permissible to rely on him.”

    وقال الحاكم والنقاش وأبو نعيم روى مناكير
    Hakim Naggash and Abu Nuaym said: “(Abu Salat) narrated munkira (rejected narrations).”

    وقال محمد بن طاهر كذاب
    Muhammad ibn Tahar said (about Abu Salat): “Liar.”

    Dhahabi in “Mizan” #5051:

    وقال ابن عدى: متهم.
    Ibn Adi said (about Abu Salat): “Accused!”

    وقال الدارقطني: رافضي خبيث متهم بوضع حديث: الايمان إقرار بالقلب (1). ونقل عنه أنه قال: كلب للعلوية خير من بنى أمية.

    Daraqutni said (about Abu Salat): “Rafidhi (Shia extremist), khabith (wicked). Accused in fabrication of narrations…”

    Ibn Adi said: “The narration is fabricated by Abu Salat.”

    Daraqutni further stated: “…Abu Salat is the man who fabricated this narration…And the groups of people steal this narration from him.”

    Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about this narration and replied: “May Allah disfigure Abu Salat!”

    In regards to the chain in #4638 of Mustadrak:

    [ 4638 ] حدثنا بصحة ما ذكره الإمام أبو زكريا ثنا يحيى بن معين ثنا أبو الحسين محمد بن أحمد بن تميم القنطري ثنا الحسين بن فهم ثنا محمد بن يحيى بن الضريس ثنا محمد بن جعفر الفيدي ثنا أبو معاوية عن الأعمش عن مجاهد عن بن عباس رضى الله تعالى عنهما قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنا مدينة العلم وعلي بابها فمن أراد المدينة فليأت الباب

    One of the narrators is Husayn ibn Fahm who was not strong.

    Ibn Hajar al Askalani in “Lisan al mizan” (Vol.2, #1266):

    قال الحاكم ليس بالقوى
    Hakim said (about Husayn ibn Fahm): “Not strong.”

    ذكره الدار قطني فقال ليس بالقوى
    Daraqutni mentioned (Husayn ibn Fahm) and said: “Not strong.”

    The House of Wisdom and Ali is its Door

    In regards to the Hadith in which the Prophet supposedly used the wording “House of Knowledge” instead of “City of Knowledge”, this was narrated in Tirmidhi. But Tirmidhi himself said about it that it was “munkar (rejected).” Bukhari said: “There is nothing authentic in it.” Ibn Maeen said: “It’s a lie.” (“Kashful hafa” 1/203)

    Shaykh Dhahabi said in “Talkhees Kitab al-Maudua” (1/116) that it is “fabricated.”

    Shaykh Albani said in “Jamiu as-sagir” (#3238) said that the Hadith was “fabricated.”

    Ibn Daqiq said that the “narration is not steady; it is fabrication!” (Sahawi in “Makasidal Hasanat”, p.54)

    Shawkani also said it is fabrication, and he included it in his book on weak narrations. (see Fawaid al-Majmua, p.348, #51)

    The same is the case with Ibn al-Jawzi. (see “Maudua” 1/349-350-351)

    Nawawi said in “Tahzeeb Asma wa Lughat” (p.480) that both versions of the Hadith (I am the House of Wisdom…and I am the City of Knowledge) are false:

    وأما الحديث المروى عن الصنابحى، عن على، قال: قال رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم -: “أنا دار الحكمة، وعلى بابها”((1)). وفى رواية: “أنا مدينة العلم، وعلى بابها” ((2))، فحديث باطل، رواه الترمذى، وقال: هو حديث منكر
    I have no problem accepting the hadeeth , since i see Sayidina Ali as a knowledgeable sa7aabi r.a. , As you can see they differed between Mawduu3 to fabricated to Weak , so themselves never made up their minds . So i respect their view on it .

    The point stays that Ali r.a. was Indeed Knowledgeable enough to carry that title Wallahu a3lam .
    Last edited by al faqeer; 18-11-08 at 08:57 AM.

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by al faqeer View Post
    Alijaan

    Albani ? declared dont use that words in front of me mate .

    Albani declared 50 hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari and muslim Dhaeef , and had his mistakes pointed out by many scholars of HAdeeth , so we dont take his word on anything :) . Try another one .
    Whilst I don’t agree with al-Albani on every issue I do recognise his immense services to Islam, services which he was imprisoned for. His whole life was dedicated to Islam and none can take that away from him.

    Allah [subhana wa ta’ala] tells us:

    “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well ¬Acquainted with what you do.” [Al-Ma’idah 5:8]

    In stating what you have not only have you distorted the reality you have been unjust.

    As for the weakening of ahadith in Bukhari then you should know that most of the chapter headings in Bukhari are presented in mu’allaq form, if you desire to know more about this issue then Ibn Hajr has a book about those ahadith in Bukhari that are mu’allaq, that is to say they are reported without an isnad. Therefore, what is meant by “Sahih Bukhari” is just that, those ahadith that are “sahîh” and not that which is quite obviously mu’allaq. That said, most of the mu’allaq ahadith in Bukhari do have an isnad.

    I just want to give one example to demonstrate that al-Albani was not alone in what he is accused of, which in turn will highlight the deception of those who seek to deceive. In the “Sahih” of Muslim for example, most of the ahadith that are declared da’if are done so due to the narrator being a mudallis, that is to say that he does not make clear who he is narrating from, one such narrator in the “Sahih” of Muslim is Abu Zubayr.

    Ibn Hajr said in his “At-Taqrib” about Abu Zubair: “...trustworthy, except that he was a mudallis.” Ibn Hajr lists Abu Zubayr amongst the third degree of mudalliseen on P. 15 of his book “Tabaqat al-Mudalliseen”, and then said: “...famous for tadlis…” And: “An-Nasa’i and others declared him as a mudallis.” And in the introduction to this book he said, in explanation of the categories of mudalliseen: “...third: those who frequently relate via tadlis. So the Imams do not rely upon their ahadith except when they make clear that they heard what they narrate. And from the Imams of hadith are those that reject their ahadith altogether, and from them are those that accept all of their ahadith. For example, Abu Zubair.”

    So to single out al-Albani alone is not only incorrect, it is unjust, as can be seen by the aforementioned words of Ibn Hajr, and if one is to still insist on defaming al-Albani for this then he also must defame those great scholars of hadith that came before him, since he [al-Albani] has them as a precedent.

    Maybe you would like to tell us what as-Saqqaaf said about the hadith in Muslim in which the Prophet [sall-Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam] asked the slave girl: “Where is Allah”?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Whilst I don’t agree with al-Albani on every issue I do recognise his immense services to Islam, services which he was imprisoned for. His whole life was dedicated to Islam and none can take that away from him.

    Allah [subhana wa ta’ala] tells us:

    “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well ¬Acquainted with what you do.” [Al-Ma’idah 5:8]

    In stating what you have not only have you distorted the reality you have been unjust.

    As for the weakening of ahadith in Bukhari then you should know that most of the chapter headings in Bukhari are presented in mu’allaq form, if you desire to know more about this issue then Ibn Hajr has a book about those ahadith in Bukhari that are mu’allaq, that is to say they are reported without an isnad. Therefore, what is meant by “Sahih Bukhari” is just that, those ahadith that are “sahîh” and not that which is quite obviously mu’allaq. That said, most of the mu’allaq ahadith in Bukhari do have an isnad.

    I just want to give one example to demonstrate that al-Albani was not alone in what he is accused of, which in turn will highlight the deception of those who seek to deceive. In the “Sahih” of Muslim for example, most of the ahadith that are declared da’if are done so due to the narrator being a mudallis, that is to say that he does not make clear who he is narrating from, one such narrator in the “Sahih” of Muslim is Abu Zubayr.

    Ibn Hajr said in his “At-Taqrib” about Abu Zubair: “...trustworthy, except that he was a mudallis.” Ibn Hajr lists Abu Zubayr amongst the third degree of mudalliseen on P. 15 of his book “Tabaqat al-Mudalliseen”, and then said: “...famous for tadlis…” And: “An-Nasa’i and others declared him as a mudallis.” And in the introduction to this book he said, in explanation of the categories of mudalliseen: “...third: those who frequently relate via tadlis. So the Imams do not rely upon their ahadith except when they make clear that they heard what they narrate. And from the Imams of hadith are those that reject their ahadith altogether, and from them are those that accept all of their ahadith. For example, Abu Zubair.”

    So to single out al-Albani alone is not only incorrect, it is unjust, as can be seen by the aforementioned words of Ibn Hajr, and if one is to still insist on defaming al-Albani for this then he also must defame those great scholars of hadith that came before him, since he [al-Albani] has them as a precedent.

    Maybe you would like to tell us what as-Saqqaaf said about the hadith in Muslim in which the Prophet [sall-Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam] asked the slave girl: “Where is Allah”?
    Stupid argument , Get an Islamic education b4 u talk to me dude you just dont have the Caliber . ( I am being humbe by the way ) .

    I refuted your Manhaj about where is Allah already dont go off topic here Kid .

    later

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    You have misunderstood why I am asking the question about as-Saqqaf, it is not to debate about where Allah is, Um Abdullah has already done this issue a fine service; rather, I am asking due to the fact that he rejected the said hadith in Muslim, so what you falsely accuse al-Albani of despite him having a precedence in that he was merely following the methodology of hadith set by those great hadith scholars who came before him, as the quotes from Ibn Hajr prove, then in turn you should accuse as-Saqqaf of, the only difference is that as-Saqqaf didn’t reject hadith on their authenticity but because they contradicted his ‘aqidah!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    You have misunderstood why I am asking the question about as-Saqqaf, it is not to debate about where Allah is, Um Abdullah has already done this issue a fine service; rather, I am asking due to the fact that he rejected the said hadith in Muslim, so what you falsely accuse al-Albani of despite him having a precedence in that he was merely following the methodology of hadith set by those great hadith scholars who came before him, as the quotes from Ibn Hajr prove, then in turn you should accuse as-Saqqaf of, the only difference is that as-Saqqaf didn’t reject hadith on their authenticity but because they contradicted his ‘aqidah!
    YAWN !

    - The Indian hadith scholar Habib al-Rahman al-A`zami who wrote al-Albani Shudhudhuh wa Akhta'uh ("Al-Albani's Aberrations and Errors") in four volumes.

    - The Syrian scholar Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti who wrote the two classics al-Lamadhhabiyya Akhtaru Bid`atin Tuhaddidu al-Shari`a al-Islamiyya ("Not Following A School of Jurisprudence is the Most Dangerous Innovation Threatening Islamic Sacred Law") and al-Salafiyya Marhalatun Zamaniyyatun Mubaraka La Madhhabun Islami ("The `Way of the Early Muslims' Was A Blessed Historical Epoch, Not An Islamic School of Thought")

    - The Moroccan hadith scholar `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn al-Siddiq al-Ghumari who wrote Irgham al-Mubtadi` al-Ghabi bi Jawaz al-Tawassul bi al-Nabi fi al-Radd `ala al-Albani al-Wabi ("The Coercion of the Unintelligent Innovator with the Licitness of Using the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him - as an Intermediary in Refutation of al-Albani the Baneful"), al-Qawl al-Muqni` fi al-Radd `ala al-Albani al-Mubtadi` ("The Persuasive Discourse in Refutation of al-Albani the Innovator"), and Itqan al-Sun`a fi Tahqiq Ma`na al-Bid`a ("Precise Handiwork in Ascertaining the Meaning of Innovation").

    - The Moroccan hadith scholar `Abd al-`Aziz ibn Muhammad ibn al-Siddiq al-Ghumari who wrote Bayan Nakth al-Nakith al-Mu`tadi ("The Exposition of the Treachery of the Rebel").

    - The Syrian hadith scholar `Abd al-Fattah Abu Ghudda who wrote Radd `ala Abatil wa Iftira'at Nasir al-Albani wa Sahibihi Sabiqan Zuhayr al-Shawish wa Mu'azirihima ("Refutation of the Falsehoods and Fabrications of Nasir al-Albani and his Former Friend Zuhayr al-Shawish and their Supporters").

    - The Egyptian Hadith scholar Muhammad `Awwama who wrote Adab al-Ikhtilaf ("The Proper Manners of Expressing Difference of Opinion").

    - The Egyptian hadith scholar Mahmud Sa`id Mamduh who wrote Wusul al-Tahani bi Ithbat Sunniyyat al-Subha wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani ("The Alighting of Mutual Benefit and Confirmation that the Dhikr-Beads are a Sunna in Refutation of al-Albani") and Tanbih al-Muslim ila Ta`addi al-Albani `ala Sahih Muslim ("Warning to the Muslim Concerning al-Albani's Attack on Sahih Muslim").

    - The Saudi hadith scholar Isma`il ibn Muhammad al-Ansar who wrote Ta`aqqubat `ala "Silsilat al-Ahadith al-Da`ifa wa al-Mawdu`a" li al-Albani ("Critique of al-Albani's Book on Weak and Forged Hadiths"), Tashih Salat al-Tarawih `Ishrina Rak`atan wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani fi Tad`ifih ("Establishing as Correct the Tarawih Salat in Twenty Rak`as and the Refutation of Its Weakening by al-Albani"), and Ibahat al-Tahalli bi al-Dhahab al-Muhallaq li al-Nisa' wa al-Radd `ala al-Albani fi Tahrimih ("The Licitness of Wearing Gold Jewelry for Women Contrary to al-Albani's Prohibition of it").

    - The Syrian scholar Badr al-Din Hasan Diab who wrote Anwar al-Masabih `ala Zulumat al-Albani fi Salat al-Tarawih ("Illuminating the Darkness of al-Albani over the Tarawih Prayer").

    - The Director of Religious Endowments in Dubai, `Isa ibn `Abd Allah ibn Mani` al-Himyari who wrote al-I`lam bi Istihbab Shadd al-Rihal li Ziyarati Qabri Khayr al-Anam - Allah bless and greet him - ("The Notification Concerning the Recommendation of Travelling to Visit the Grave of the Best of Creation - Allah bless and greet him -) and al-Bid`a al-Hasana Aslun Min Usul al-Tashri` ("The Excellent Innovation Is One of the Sources of Islamic Legislation").

    - The Minister of Islamic Affairs and Religious Endowments in the United Arab Emirates Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Khazraji who wrote the article al-Albani: Tatarrufatuh ("Al-Albani's Extremist Positions").

    - The Syrian scholar Firas Muhammad Walid Ways in his edition of Ibn al-Mulaqqin's Sunniyyat al-Jumu`a al-Qabliyya ("The Sunna Prayers That Must Precede Salat al-Jumu`a").

    - The Syrian scholar Samer Islambuli who wrote al-Ahad, al-Ijma`, al-Naskh.

    - The Jordanian scholar As`ad Salim Tayyim who wrote Bayan Awham al-Albani fi Tahqiqihi li Kitab Fadl al-Salat `ala al-Nabi - Allah bless and greet him -.

    - The Jordanian scholar Hasan `Ali al-Saqqaf who wrote the two-volume Tanaqudat al-Albani al-Wadiha fi ma Waqa`a fi Tashih al-Ahadith wa Tad`ifiha min Akhta' wa Ghaltat ("Albani's Patent Self-Contradictions in the Mistakes and Blunders He Committed While Declaring Hadiths to be Sound or Weak"), Ihtijaj al-Kha'ib bi `Ibarat man Idda`a al-Ijma` fa Huwa Kadhib ("The Loser's Recourse to the Phrase: `Whoever Claims Consensus Is a Liar!'"), al-Qawl al-Thabtu fi Siyami Yawm al-Sabt ("The Firm Discourse Concerning Fasting on Saturdays"), al-Lajif al-Dhu`af li al-Mutala`ib bi Ahkam al-I`tikaf ("The Lethal Strike Against Him Who Toys with the Rulings of I`tikaf), Sahih Sifat Salat al-Nabi Sallallahu `alayhi wa Sallam ("The Correct Description of the Prophet's Prayer - Allah bless and greet him -"), I`lam al-Kha'id bi Tahrim al-Qur'an `ala al-Junub wa al-Ha'id ("The Appraisal of the Meddler in the Interdiction of the Qur'an to those in a State of Major Defilement and Menstruating Women"), Talqih al-Fuhum al-`Aliya ("The Inculcation of Lofty Discernment"), and Sahih Sharh al-`Aqida al-Tahawiyya ("The Correct Explanation of al-Tahawi's Statement of Islamic Doctrine").

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Heres more :

    http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/al50errs.html

    Aqeedah ? You follow the Hanbali Athari salafi Aqeedah of Ibn Taymiyyah not that of the Sa7aaba like you think LOL .

    You are hungry for humiliation aint Cha ?
    Last edited by al faqeer; 18-11-08 at 10:44 AM.

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Sitting here copying and pasting books about the alleged errors of al-Albani is not what one would call knowledge, yet what I quoted regarding those who are mudallis is, and in doing so it demonstrated that al-Albani was on the same page as Ibn Hajr regarding this issue. It is interesting that in your second to last post you cited as-Saqqaf, since he is the one I asked you about, yet you, in your usual style, ignore and try to deflect and end up not answering the question - Many people have refuted al-Albani, but that does not mean that all those refutations are justified, and if one were to look at much of what he has been refuted for then one would come to realise how bankrupt of substance many of those refutations are - So feel free to keep ignoring the issues and instead copying and pasting - whilst you yourself have “bigger” issues to worry about then alleged errors of al-Albani, i.e. your creed. I have also advised you before that your approach should not be to “humiliate”, do you not have any fear of Allah? Rather, you should want good for all and desire that they are guided to that which Allah loves and is pleased with. May Allah guide me and you, and each and everyone of us to that which He loves and is pleased with.

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Sitting here copying and pasting books about the alleged errors of al-Albani is not what one would call knowledge, yet what I quoted regarding those who are mudallis is, and in doing so it demonstrated that al-Albani was on the same page as Ibn Hajr regarding this issue. It is interesting that in your second to last post you cited as-Saqqaf, since he is the one I asked you about, yet you, in your usual style, ignore and try to deflect and end up not answering the question - Many people have refuted al-Albani, but that does not mean that all those refutations are justified, and if one were to look at much of what he has been refuted for then one would come to realise how bankrupt of substance many of those refutations are - So feel free to keep ignoring the issues and instead copying and pasting - whilst you yourself have “bigger” issues to worry about then alleged errors of al-Albani, i.e. your creed. I have also advised you before that your approach should not be to “humiliate”, do you not have any fear of Allah? Rather, you should want good for all and desire that they are guided to that which Allah loves and is pleased with. May Allah guide me and you, and each and everyone of us to that which He loves and is pleased with.
    Copy and pasting with reference Dude , the references are there to Shut up your entire manhaj take it easy .

    My approach is my approach whether u u can digest it or not , if you cant handle it dont get it my way .

    Tell me what my creed is exactly , so i can make you look like 2 cents again , its a challenge .

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Why would you want to make me look like "2 cents" in the first place? I would not wish to do that to you, I just wish you would have some manners when discussing issues.

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Why would you want to make me look like "2 cents" in the first place? I would not wish to do that to you, I just wish you would have some manners when discussing issues.
    cause i feel like it .

    What is my creed ?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    That is not very nice now is it?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    That is not very nice now is it?
    What is my creed .

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    When you develop good manners and don't seek to make others look stupid and to try your best to humiliate them we can talk.

    Now be nice!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    When you develop good manners and don't seek to make others look stupid and to try your best to humiliate them we can talk.

    Now be nice!
    Go to the nearest highway and stick out your Thumb . .

    If you want to talk backup your accusations , other wise go play with the Kiddies in the sand.

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Point in case!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Point in case!
    Whats my creed ?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    When you develop good manners and don't seek to make others look stupid and to try your best to humiliate them we can talk.

    Now be nice!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Well...
    You are a true salafi .

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Thank you, but I am not a Salafi, I am just a simple Muslim!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Thank you, but I am not a Salafi, I am just a simple Muslim!
    Yeah and Peanut butter sandwiches are actually made with eggs .

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote: hatimabu “Thank you, but I am not a Salafi, I am just a simple Muslim!”

    Brother, al faqeer Guess what?


    He says his a “ Simple Muslim”

    He forgot!

    Assessment of Hadrat Ali by Western Scholars

    Philip Hitti In his book History of the Arabs, Professor Hitti assessed the character of Hadrat Ali as follows:
    "Valiant in battle, wise in council, eloquent in speech, true to his friends, magnanimous to his foes, Ali became both the paragon of Muslim nobility and chivalry, and the Solomon of Arabic tradition around whose name, poems, proverbs, sermonettes and anecdotes innumerable have clustered. He had swarthy complexion, large black eyes, bald head, a thick and long white beard, and was opulent and of medium stature. His sabre Dhul Fiqar, which was wielded by the Prophet on the battlefield of Badr, has been immortalized in the words of this verse found engraved in many medieval Arab records, "no sword can match Dhul Fiqar, and no young warrior can compare with Hadrat Ali." A later Fidayan movement which developed ceremonies and insignia savouring of medieval European chivalry and the modern scouts movement, took Ali for its father and model. Regarded as wise and brave by all the Islamic world, as the idealistic and exemplary by many Fidayan and dervish fraternities, as sinless and infallible by his partisans, and even held to be the incarnation of the deity by the Ghulah (extremists) among them, he whose worldly posthumous influence was second only to that of the holy Prophet himself. The throngs of pilgrims that still stream to his Mashhad at Najaf and to that of his son Husain, the Shi'iah arch-saint and martyr at nearby Karbala, and the passion-play enacted annually on the tenth of Muharram through the Shi'iah world, testify to the possibility that death may avail a Messiah more than life."

    Sir William Muir In his book,
    The Caliphate, its Rise, Decline and Fall, Sir William Muir paid his tribute to Hadrat Ali in the following words: "In the character of Ali, there are many things to commend him for. Mild and beneficent, he treated Basra when prostrate at his feet with a generous forbearance. Towards theocratic fanatics, who wearied his patience by incessant intrigues and senseless rebellion, he showed no vindictiveness.
    Ali was wise in counsel and many an adage and astute proverb have been attributed to him. But like Solomon, his weakness was for others more than himself.

    Charles Mills In his book A History of Muhammadanism, Charles Mills assessed Hadrat Ali as follows: “The son of Abu Talib was one of the first converts to Islam, and was Muhammad's favourite appellation of him, the Aaron of a second Moses. His talents as an orator, and his intrepidity as the warrior commanded to a nation in whose judgment courage was virtue and eloquence was wisdom…”

    Professor Nicholson In his book A Literary History of the Arabs, Nicholson remarked: "Ali was a gallant warrior, a wise counsellor, a true friend and generous foe.
    .. He can be compared with Montrose and Bayard in the fineness of spirit.”

    John J. Pool In his book Studies in Muhammadanism, John J. Pool observed: "The fact is that Ali was too mild a man for the stirring times in which he lived. He was too slow to resolve and too undecided in action. At any time he preferred compromise and delay to energy and promptness, and with fatal results.
    … Henceforward the Commanders of the Faithful ceased to be elected by the votes of the people of Medina and Mecca. Arabia was no longer to be the seat of temporal power. For the future, in Islam, might was to take the place of right."

    Edward Gibbon In his book Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon observed the following about the assassination of Hadrat Othman and the succession of Hadrat Ali:
    "A life of prayer and contemplation had not chilled the martial activity of Ali, but in a mature age, after a long experience of mankind, he still betrayed in his conduct the rashness and indiscretion of youth."

    Thomas Carlyle In his book On Heroes and Hero Worship, Thomas Carlyle observed: "As for this young Ali, one cannot but like him. A noble minded creature, as he shows himself, now and always afterwards, full of affection, of fiery daring something chivalrous in him, brave as a lion, yet with a grace, truth and affection worthy of Christian knighthood. He died by assassination in the mosque at Kufa, death occasioned by his own generous fairness, confidence in the fairness of others. He said: if the wound proved not unto death, they must pardon the assassin, but if it did, they must slay him straightaway, so that the two of them in the same our might appear before God, and see which side of that quarrel was the just one."

    Dr. Henry Stubbe In his book An Account of the Rise and Progress of Muhammadanism, Dr. Henry Stubbe observed: “He feared God much, gave many alms, was just in all his actions, humble and affable, of an exceedingly quick wit, and of an ingenuity that was not common. He was exceedingly learned, not only in those sciences that terminate in speculation, but those which extend to practice."

    Major Price In his book Memoirs of the Principal Events of Muhammadan History, Major Price observed: "His virtues and extraordinary qualities have been the subject of voluminous panegyrics, and his war-like exploits from his youth upwards have been particularly celebrated in the "Khawer Nama," a poem well-known in the East and which may perhaps contend in extravagance with the wildest effusions of European romance. With his acknowledged talents and magnanimity, it is however, difficult to account for the train of civil mischief and perpetual discontent which continued to disturb him for the whole of his reign. His gallant spirit was probably incapable of bonding to the ordinary shifts of political craft, and it is perhaps true that the Arabian chiefs were not yet sufficiently disciplined to see the sovereign authority quietly monopolized by any particular family."

    J.J. Saunders In his book A History of Medieval Islam, J.J. Saunders observed:
    "His moral qualities were respectively recognized. He was a brave fighter and an eloquent orator and a loyal friend. Many things of his are quoted to prove his mastery of proverbial wisdom, a gift highly honoured among the Semites. He displayed towards his foes a patience and magnanimity expressive of a humane and generous disposition. His religion was founded on genuine piety. He was shocked by the growing luxury and corruption of the age, and to his many doubts whether Othman was an upholder or a violator of the law may be attributed to the hesitating and ambiguous attitude he adopted towards the regicides, which proved so fatal to his rule and reputation. As his temper was indolent, he drifted rather than led. He was easily outmatched by the astute and the forceful, and he lacked the commanding personality to impose his will on a turbulent society.”

    And Now:

    The Muslims, which are still belligerent concerning the “Gate of Knowledge!”

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Dear Medusa

    I don’t think anyone is disputing the status of ‘Ali [radi Allahu ‘anhu], so I am not too sure why you saw a need to post the statements of those who refer to Islam as “Muhammadanism” - Furthermore, I am not too sure what me saying "I am a simple Muslim" has to do with what you posted.

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Dear Medusa

    I don’t think anyone is disputing the status of ‘Ali [radi Allahu ‘anhu], so I am not too sure why you saw a need to post the statements of those who refer to Islam as “Muhammadanism” - Furthermore, I am not too sure what me saying "I am a simple Muslim" has to do with what you posted.
    what is a simple muslim exactly ? a new sect

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Er... ok!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    Er... ok!

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    New Sect “ER…”?

    Brother al faqeer, easy with the we don’t want …

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    I am starting to think that you two are the same person! Whatever the case is, do you really believe that such behaviour is acceptable for a Muslim?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by hatimabu View Post
    I am starting to think that you two are the same person! Whatever the case is, do you really believe that such behaviour is acceptable for a Muslim?


    Who here can tell me the Karamats of Sayidina 3umar r.a. ?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by al faqeer View Post


    Who here can tell me the Karamats of Sayidina 3umar r.a. ?
    There are many such incidents from the khilaafah of Umar (RA)

    The incident in which he called out from the mimbar to a sahabi who was miles away "ya saariya ilaa aljabal"

    Then on another occassion, when there was a earthquake in madeenah?) he whipped the earth with a hunter saying something like, "doesn't umar rules on you (earth) with justice?" and the tremors stopped.

    Two of the famous incidents which I can remember from top of my head =D
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    Quote Originally Posted by truepath View Post
    There are many such incidents from the khilaafah of Umar (RA)

    The incident in which he called out from the mimbar to a sahabi who was miles away "ya saariya ilaa aljabal"

    Then on another occassion, when there was a earthquake in madeenah?) he whipped the earth with a hunter saying something like, "doesn't umar rules on you (earth) with justice?" and the tremors stopped.

    Two of the famous incidents which I can remember from top of my head =D
    Thanx so that means these Sa7aaba were not Just your normal people like us , they were better than Awliyaa Allah and had karamaat .

    So why are these people trying so desperately to prove that Sayidina Ali r.a. was not like the rest of the Khulafa ?

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    Re: Hadith (I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate)

    No wali can reach the rank or status of any single sahabi... the rank and status of sahaba was better and higher than the rank of any wali for the mere fact that they have seen the prophet of islam (saws) in their lives.

    However people might argue what difference would that make as even people like abu jahl or abu lahab have seen... but sahaba saw him in the state of imaan and the kuffar saw him in the state of kufr... that makes a whole lot of difference.
    لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا


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