Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 47 of 47
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    8

    Corporal punishment in Islam

    Hello,

    I am not a Muslim, but I am trying to learn about the religion.

    Does Islam use corporal punishment, such as whipping or flogging, for crimes such as adultery or pre-marital sex?

    I have heard some say this is done in Islam. Is it done in all sects of Islam?

    Does the Koran itself order whipping or flogging?

    When violence is used as punishment, who carries it out?

    Thank you

  2. #41

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    135
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by talib as-safa View Post
    I have a question for you which should get down to the root of the issue:

    Do you believe morality is objective or subjective; absolute or relative?

    Thanks!
    Morality is probably best understood as whatever you find objectionable and unfair and would not like happen to you. Fairness is a very important concept in the Quran. The whole concept of fairness in the Koran is built upon recipricol and proportional retribution. the Quran went as far as labelling those who reject the concept of equal retribution as unbelievers.

    Even fighting in the Koran is conditional upon those who chose to fight you. The Koran does not recognize offensive war or conquest. There is no mention in the Quran of ghazu(conquest). We are only to fight for defensive purpose. The only exception in the Koran is when two believers fight each other than we are to see who transgressed (once again who started the conflict without a defensive cause ie transgressed) than we are told we are to fight the transgressing party tll they cease.

    The Koran says that taking a person's life is like killing all mankind. So fighting and killing is very serious matter. Unless we are forced to fight and unless someone takes another human being's life intentionally without due cause then we can take a person's life. But even then the Koran gave us options to save a person's life even if he did not respect someone elses life. In cases of manslaughter and unintentional killing, the Koran gave us the option of financial compensation but also forgiveness. The door of repentance is always open in the Koran but for intentional murder the lowest celing is exile from the community to protect people from the harm of the murderer.

  3. #42
    wal 'aqibatulil muttaqeen Uthman Ibn Afan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    7,828
    Rep Power
    81

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Traditionalist View Post
    The Quran only allows corporal punishment for intentional murder, but also allows exile from the community like life imprisonment as an alternative. A soul for a soul is allowed. But alternative is also allowed.

    Later Muslim authorities broke the soul for soul and introduced many things that are against the teachings of the Koran like stoning adulterer and executing prisoners and executing apostates and lashing people for commiting sins. All of this is against the teachings of the Koran. Only God punishes sins in the Koran. Humans can only punish other humans who inflict some harm on someone else. This lashing for drinking alocol or not fasting ramadan and apostasy law all are unIslamic.
    Do you believe the best of guidance is the guidance the Prophet came with?

    Do you believe in following the Sunnah of the Prophet ?

    Do you believe that the Sunnah is the best practical demonstration of how the Quran should be understood and implemented?


    Quote Originally Posted by yiffzer View Post
    Assalamu alaikum. This is interesting. I've always thought that stoning and executing was part of the Qur'an. Perhaps I might be wrong. Can you provide any information on this? If anyone knows, please chime in.
    Walaykum salaam

    There is not a clearcut ayah on rajm but Allah commands us throughout the Quran to obey Allah AND obey the Prophet.

    So I'd ignore this so called "traditionalist" as it seems his aim is to try to give modern interpretations to try to make the Quran conform to his preconceived "ideal" rather then what we should be doing as Muslims, which is submit to whatever Allah has legislated. The Creator knows His creation better then anyone else so why look elsewhere.
    http://kondori.wordpress.com/

    Like this page on FB
    HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

    Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

    "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

    Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh




  4. #43

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    135
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    Do you believe the best of guidance is the guidance the Prophet came with?

    Do you believe in following the Sunnah of the Prophet ?

    Do you believe that the Sunnah is the best practical demonstration of how the Quran should be understood and implemented?




    Walaykum salaam

    There is not a clearcut ayah on rajm but Allah commands us throughout the Quran to obey Allah AND obey the Prophet.

    So I'd ignore this so called "traditionalist" as it seems his aim is to try to give modern interpretations to try to make the Quran conform to his preconceived "ideal" rather then what we should be doing as Muslims, which is submit to whatever Allah has legislated. The Creator knows His creation better then anyone else so why look elsewhere.
    "Do you believe that the Sunnah is the best practical demonstration of how the Quran should be understood and implemented?"

    That depends on what you mean by the Sunnah and what you mean by the Quran being understood and implimented. I have not relied on implicit verses but very explicit verses.

    Like:

    Permission is given to those who fight because they have been wronged, and God is indeed able to give them victory; those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said, "Our Lord is God"-for had it not been for God's repelling some men by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, in which the name of God is much mentioned, would certainly have been destroyed. Verily God helps those that help Him - lo! God is Strong, Almighty - those who, if they are given power in the land, establish worship and pay the poor-due and enjoin what is good and forbid iniquity. Quran 22:39-41

    Fight in the way of God those who fight against you, but do not transgress. God does not love the transgressor. Quran 2:190

    And if they incline to peace, do so and put your trust in God. Even if they intend to deceive you, remember that God is sufficient for you. Quran 8:61-2

    God does not forbid you front being kind and equitable to those who have neither made war on you account of your religion nor driven you from your homes. God loves those who are equitable. God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. Quran 60:8-9

    If two, of the believers take up arms against one another, make peace between them. If either of them commits aggression against the other, fight against the aggressors until they submit to God's judgment. When they submit make peace between them in equity and justice. God loves those who act in justice. 49:9


    Now if you mean the Sunnah that gives us an example of how these verses were applied than this is surely the Sunnah of the messenger of the Quran. After all the prophet is the first to obey those commands and the last to disobey them. The Quran established the criteria we are to fight for and this is what God has ordered.


    So I guess it all depends on what do you mean by the Sunnah of the prophet and what do you mean by obeying the prophet. Surely the prophet is more God fearing than us and obeys God's command better than us. Or do you think otherwise?

  5. #44
    Troll Hunter Supreme Saif-Uddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    21,778
    Rep Power
    530

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Traditionalist View Post
    The Quran is concerned about justice and not deterence. Deterence can be excessive, like what dictators do to deter people from opposing them. Justice in the Koran is proportional retribution, soul for soul, eye for eye, nose for nose and tooth for tooth. Free for free, man for man and slave for slave. Apples for apples, oranges for oranges and bananas for bananas. Like a scale, equal weights on both sides. Thats the symbol of justice. Adl and qist and mizan. The Koran tells us to establish the mizan properly.

    Deterence can mean punishing people harder than they deserve to create fear.
    In Islam Justice serves as a deterent Traditionalist ...
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "O followers of Muhammad! By Allah, if you knew what I know, you would weep much and laugh little."

    [Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 8, Hadith no. 627]

    May Allah ta'ala join our beloved akhi Uncle-Umar (may Allah ta'ala have mercy upon him) with the Shuhada and grant him the Highest station in Jannatul Firdaus

    Ameen


    https://www.justgiving.com/FoodTruckForSyria/

  6. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    269
    Rep Power
    59

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Traditionalist View Post
    Morality is probably best understood as whatever you find objectionable and unfair and would not like happen to you. Fairness is a very important concept in the Quran.
    Ah, you see! You've just reduced morality to very subjective grounds! If morality is indeed relative, then the way Muslims treat criminals shouldn't concern you - afrerall, morality is dependant on whatever "you" find objectionable. Of course, this "you" could be anybody, and anybody can claim anything in this regard.

    At the same time, you seem to acknowledge the authority of the Qur'an. Perhaps you do think morality, afterall, is objective, and defined by the Qur'an? If so, would you please confirm that so I can reply to you in a meaningful fashion?

    Thanks!

  7. #46

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    135
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by talib as-safa View Post
    Ah, you see! You've just reduced morality to very subjective grounds! If morality is indeed relative, then the way Muslims treat criminals shouldn't concern you - afrerall, morality is dependant on whatever "you" find objectionable. Of course, this "you" could be anybody, and anybody can claim anything in this regard.

    At the same time, you seem to acknowledge the authority of the Qur'an. Perhaps you do think morality, afterall, is objective, and defined by the Qur'an? If so, would you please confirm that so I can reply to you in a meaningful fashion?

    Thanks!
    Of course justice is to be defined by the Quran to me since I am a Quran believer and follower. Whats important is what the Koran says and how it understands justice.

    Deterence may or may not be just. We are told in the Quran to follow the law of equity and equal retribution.

    O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.[1][2]

    005.045
    YUSUFALI: We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

    16.126. And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you out: But if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient

    2.194. The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality(Qisas). If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.

    It is not for a believer to kill a believer except (that it be) by mistake; and whosoever kills a believer by mistake, (it is ordained that) he must set free a believing slave and a compensation be given to the deceased’s family unless they remit it. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (is prescribed); and if he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, compensation must be paid to his family, and a believing slave must be freed. And who so finds this (the penance of freeing a slave) beyond his means, he must fast for two consecutive months in order to seek repentance from Allâh. And Allâh is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise. Sura An-Nisa:92 (4:92)

    We are also told:

    "Say: Shall I seek Lord other than God, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any sin except against himself (only), and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing" (Quran 6:164)

    "Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens shall bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger" (Quran 17:15)

    "And no bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden; and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be laden even though he be near of kin, you can warn only those who fear their Lord unseen and perform prayers. And who purifies himself then he purifies for the benefit of his ownself. And to God is the final return." (Quran 35:18)

    This all gives us an indication of how the Quran understands justice. And justice is to be implimented against anyone no matter what:

    “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even if it be against yourselves, your parents, and your relatives, or whether it is against the rich or the poor...” (Quran 4:135)

    “Let not the hatred of a people swerve you away from justice. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness…” (Quran 5:8)

    No matter what and no matter whom.

    Deterence may or may not be just. Some people might support a harsher penalty than the crime (this is against the Quran) with the excuse of deterence. The goal here is to create fear and not justice. The best deterence is not fear but justice, and justice is equal retribution.

    Of course the verse about compensation for murder is concerning unintentional murder. For intentional murder the punishment can range from capital punishment to exile from the community. Under no circumstance should an intentional murderer go free. Repentance here is accepted but the punishment can no go below exile from the community. The Koran talked about the issue of intentional murder whan talking about Cain and Abel.

    5.27-34 Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! they each presented a sacrifice (to Allah.: It was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter: "Be sure I will slay thee." "Surely," said the former, "(Allah) doth accept of the sacrifice of those who are righteous. "If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong." The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother: he murdered him, and became (himself) one of the lost ones.Then Allah sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets- On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful

    Here the highest ceiling is capital punsihment and the lowest ceiling is exile from community. The Israelites later changed this law and claimed that the sanctity of life is only for Israelites. Eye for an eye is for jews only but not with gentiles and they allowed disproportionate punishment against gentiles.

    Some have said the verse istalking about war and fighting. However the Koran here uses the verb harb and not qital. Harb means war in a general sense like war on poverty and war on drugs etc. It means those who oppose what God revealed and take the life of a human without due right. The Quran uses qital when talking about fighting as a verb. Anyways if the verse was talking about battles than we are talking about prisoners of war. The Quran already dealt with the issue of prisoners and gave two options, one is freedom the other is ransom. Under no circumstance can prisoners be harmed. The Koran considered treatment of prisoners as an act of charity and entrusted the prophet with their good treatment.

  8. #47

    Account Disabled

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Boy Male
    Posts
    135
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    In Islam Justice serves as a deterent Traditionalist ...
    Just to give you an example of what I am saying about the difference between deterence and justice I will quote this disturbing article about the new law passed by Kuwait parliament.


    Kuwait’s parliament on Thursday passed a bill stipulating the death penalty for Muslims who curse or mock God, the Muslim holy book, all prophets and the wives of Islam’s Prophet Mohammed.

    The same punishment is applied to those who “describe themselves as new prophets or messengers from God,” the Kuwaiti state news agency KUNA reported.

    “But if the accused is a non-Muslim, the punishment would be lowered to jail for no more than 10 years,” the report added, according to the bill.

    Forty MPs, including cabinet ministers, voted for the bill in the second and final round of voting, against six opponents who included all five Shi’ite MPs present and liberal MP Mohammad al-Sager.

    The bill introduces two new articles to the Gulf state’s penal code specifically to stiffen penalties for such offences.

    Defendants who repent in court will be spared capital punishment but will get a jail sentence for five years and a fine of $36,000 or one of them, while repentance by those who repeat the crime is not acceptable, the bill says.

    “We do not want to execute people with opinions or thought because Islam respects these people... But we need this legislation because incidents of cursing God have increased. We need to deter them,” opposition MP Ali al-Deqbasi said during the debate.

    The bill becomes effective after the government accepts it, the emir signs it and it is published in the official gazette within one month.

    Minister of Justice and Islamic Affairs Jamal Shehab told reporters after the vote that the government will accept and implement the law.

    Shiite MPs also demanded that the bill impose the death penalty on anyone who curses their sect’s 12 revered Imams, but the Sunni-dominated parliament rejected their request.

    Shiite MP Abdulhameed Dashti said the bill breaches the Kuwaiti constitution and the principles of Islam.

    “Why are we trying to show Islam as a religion of death and blood when it is actually the opposite of that,” Dashti said.

    The move to stiffen penalties for religious crimes came after authorities in March arrested a Shi'ite tweeter for allegedly cursing the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), his wife and some companions.

    The suspect, Hamad al-Naqi, is being detained pending trial later this month.

    Kuwaiti courts have in the past several months jailed activists from both sects over religious offences.



    http://english.alarabiya.net/article...03/211972.html


    "“We do not want to execute people with opinions or thought because Islam respects these people... But we need this legislation because incidents of cursing God have increased. We need to deter them,” opposition MP Ali al-Deqbasi said during the debate."

    Now even though both the Sunnis and Shias have whats known as apostasy laws(ridda law), anyone can see they went further than that when it came to this law since the goal here was really to persecute the other sects in Islam like the Sunnis and Ahmedis. This is the problem with deterrence, it often means you will pass harsh laws to scare away people. This is not justice since its unjust to have a Sunni parliament tailor make a law that only Sunnis can accept. How would a Sunni feel if the Iran parliament passed a law stating that anyone who praises Abu Bakr and Omar can be executed if he does not repent. But the goal here is to deter people and not justice.

    Dictators we know use deterence justification all the time. Its job is to instal fear and not justice and deter people from challenging their rule. One day some hard headed person will say something in Kuwait and refuse to back down. Then they will be in a tough spot as they won't know what to do when they realize the deterence did not work and now they will have to impliment that law. Shias might look for revenge and we have a new fitna. This behavior wa spracticed by the Pharoah and the Meccans and the people of Noah who tried to threaten the believers with violence to deter them to preach the message of God. The Quran does not accept coercion whether faith or disbelief as the Quran said that any believer forced to admit kufr when tortured or threatened is excused, so how can God accept faith when its coerced?

    But this is what I meant by deternce. No where does the Quran inoke deterence as a means of justice, but retribution. You should only get punished for what harm you caused others in equal proportion.

    Of course this is all against the teachings of the Quran but this is the culture of sectarianism that has now taken over the Islamic world.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:22 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Skin By: PurevB.com

MPADC.com Islamic Web Hosting | Muslim Ad Network | Islamic Nasheeds | Islamic Mobile App Developement Android & iPhone
Omar Esa Nasheed Artist
| Omar Esa Nasheeds | Islamic Web Hosting : Muslim Designers : Nasheeds : Labbayk Nasheeds : silk route jilbab: Hijab: : Web Islamic Newsletter: Islamic Web Hosting

Hijabs Online | Hijabs | Hijab Shop | Hijab Shop | Scarves | Scarves for women | Ladies Scarves : Treasure of The Scholars