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    Corporal punishment in Islam

    Hello,

    I am not a Muslim, but I am trying to learn about the religion.

    Does Islam use corporal punishment, such as whipping or flogging, for crimes such as adultery or pre-marital sex?

    I have heard some say this is done in Islam. Is it done in all sects of Islam?

    Does the Koran itself order whipping or flogging?

    When violence is used as punishment, who carries it out?

    Thank you

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam



    Hi,

    MashAllah ThabarakAllah good that you are learning about Islam.

    Without any doubt, it is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an:

    The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allah's Law). {Noble Qur'an 24:2}



    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Allah's Apostle judged that the unmarried person who was guilty of illegal sexual intercourse be exiled for one year and receive the legal punishment (i.e., be flogged with one-hundred stripes) .
    [Sahih al-Bukhari,Volume 8, Book 82, Number 819]

    This is the punishment for the fornicators
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Don't know about all the sects though

    This is not violence dear Hammurab. Its the perfect justice.

    There's usually a man hired for the punishing purpose only by the goverment who carries out the task
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaiman Harun View Post
    Don't know about all the sects though

    This is not violence dear Hammurab. Its the perfect justice.

    There's usually a man hired for the punishing purpose only by the goverment who carries out the task
    I'm open to discussion on whether or not it is justice.

    But by definition, it is violence. (The exertion of physical force to injure).

    Again, I will consider the premise that some violence can be justified, but to claim you can non-violently whip someone or non-violently kill someone by bludgeoning them to death with rocks is unreasonable.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Ok, violence does mean intense force but mostly non-Muslims take it as a very gruesome sort of thing to do that's why I said that
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    That's why I was saying to read the Qur'an first.

    To study Islam, you must first understand Tawhid.

    Understand the unity, and the greatness of Allah (swt).

    There is only one God.

    Only one Creator. And He has provided us with the way to be successful. It is all clear for us.

    Once you can accept Allah (swt), and that He is One, understanding the wisdom behind His Rulings becomes not only easy, but your life.

    Asking these kinds of questions and debating Shar'iah is not the place to start. But we will try to be helpful,
    Last edited by AbuMusaab; 21-07-07 at 07:32 AM.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    MashAllah ThabarakAllah good point bro AbuMusaab
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaiman Harun View Post
    Ok, violence does mean intense force but mostly non-Muslims take it as a very gruesome sort of thing to do that's why I said that
    To be honest, I would hope that Muslims (or anyone) would consider it very gruesome to beat someone with a whip, or to kill someone with stones.

    Again, as to whether or not it is justified, that is a separate discussion, but I find it extremely alarming that anyone would look on this kind of thing as anything other than gruesome.

    If it is not rude to ask, do you live in a country where this is practiced?

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Nope, I live Canada used to live UAE where this law was somewhat practiced
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    What punishment does a person deserve for committing such a filthy abominated act? Simply, 100 lashes

    If you give the 1 year in jail, then next year he'll do the same. But after being terribly beaten, he won't even think of it again!
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post
    That's why I was saying to read the Qur'an first.

    To study Islam, you must first understand Tawhid.

    Understand the unity, and the greatness of Allah (swt).

    There is only one God.

    Only one Creator. And He has provided us with the way to be successful. It is all clear for us.

    Once you can accept Allah (swt), and that He is One, understanding the wisdom behind His Rulings becomes not only easy, but your life.

    Asking these kinds of questions and debating Shar'iah is not the place to start. But we will try to be helpful,
    These are questions of conscience, and I cannot in good faith defer them until after I have made commitments to agree with answers I have not received.

    I am not debating, I am asking for clarity. If the answer is "Yes, whipping and death by stoning are practiced", then that is the answer. But it is still violence, and my desire for a clear and open understanding of Islam would not be well served by euphemism.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaiman Harun View Post
    What punishment does a person deserve for committing such a filthy abominated act? Simply, 100 lashes

    If you give the 1 year in jail, then next year he'll do the same. But after being terribly beaten, he won't even think of it again!
    So then, this reasoning is consistent with the teachings and practice of Islam?

    I am not making commentary on whether it is right or wrong, but this is a fulcrum point of my own choice.

    The statement "After being terribly beaten, he won't ever think of it again!" is reflective of Islam as a religion?

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    No no no, you are absolutely wrong. Isn't hitting by a whip a terrible beating for a terrible punishment?

    The punishment is so result-productive that it will completely erase the crime!
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    If you are not looking for opinion, and just looking for the answers, there were provided in point 2. Since the answer was provided, opinion followed. There is "corporal punishment" in Islam for certain crimes.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaiman Harun View Post
    No no no, you are absolutely wrong. Isn't hitting by a whip a terrible beating for a terrible punishment?

    The punishment is so result-productive that it will completely erase the crime!
    Is what you are saying here indicative of Muslim belief? Does all Islam think that way?

    To "erase" something with terrible violence and beating, is this common to all of Islam?

    What other things call for "terrible" responses? Again, I'm not asking for justification, just a list of what things Islam teaches should be responded to with violence and "terrible beating".

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post
    If you are not looking for opinion, and just looking for the answers, there were provided in point 2. Since the answer was provided, opinion followed. There is "corporal punishment" in Islam for certain crimes.
    And this is done throughout Islam, consistently?

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    One question from the person you are asking from:

    Do you like illegal *** ?
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    What other punishments would you like to know my friend?
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    Is what you are saying here indicative of Muslim belief? Does all Islam think that way?

    To "erase" something with terrible violence and beating, is this common to all of Islam?

    What other things call for "terrible" responses? Again, I'm not asking for justification, just a list of what things Islam teaches should be responded to with violence and "terrible beating".
    The phrase "all of Islam" suggests that there might be many legitimate groups of Muslims who differ.

    However, I differ from that opinion. There is only one Qur'an. And one Prophet Muhammad . There is only one Islam. There is only one God!

    So these issues are not up for debate.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaiman Harun View Post
    One question from the person you are asking from:

    Do you like illegal *** ?
    illegal what?

    No, I'm just wanting to know, would I be expected to condone violence, and under what conditions.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    And this is done throughout Islam, consistently?
    Shar'iah is the Law of Allah, subhana wa ta'ala. When it is correctly implemented, then yes.

    Note: There is no nation on this earth that is currently a true Shar'iah state. We are working on that,
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    illegal what?

    No, I'm just wanting to know, would I be expected to condone violence, and under what conditions.

    Illegal ***, ( I believe the brother was referring to fornication) Forgive me if I am wrong.

    As for condoning violence: This is way too early to be asking such questions about conditions. Read the Qur'an first and see how you feel about that. I am not saying that to cut off you questions, but if you are sincere in your interest (and I believe you are), it would be better that way.

    Let me give an analogy. You asking these questions is like a person who just joined the military with no weapons training asking to go directly to sniper school. You need basic weapons training first.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post
    The phrase "all of Islam" suggests that there might be many legitimate groups of Muslims who differ.

    However, I differ from that opinion. There is only one Qur'an. And one Prophet Muhammad . There is only one Islam. There is only one God!

    So these issues are not up for debate.
    Do Muslims ever disagree on doctrinal matters? Are there some Muslims who would say "Those over there are not real Muslims", and others who would feel the opposite? Are there sects of Islam that differ on some religious matters?

    I guess what I"m saying is, are there Muslims somewhere who would say "No, we do not stone people to death, we do not whip people", and are they real Muslims?

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post
    Illegal ***, ( I believe the brother was referring to fornication) Forgive me if I am wrong.

    As for condoning violence. This is way too early to be asking such questions about conditions. Read the Qur'an first and see how you feel about that.
    I'm sorry, I can't agree.

    If you decide to support something, to stand by it permanently, you should know everything up front. Anything else is not informed consent.

    I think I've gotten the answers to my first questions, I'll think more on other questions. Thank you all for your help.

    I'll check back to see if anyone else on the board has a different perspective.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post

    So these issues are not up for debate.
    Well, yes, they are when you speak about them in such general terms.

    In Islam, corporal punishment is used only under highly defined circumstances.

    Islam does not advocate corporal punishment as an ideal punishment in all situations.

    You're not supposed to smack around your wife or kids or parents, for example, when they've done something wrong or that displeases you.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    Do Muslims ever disagree on doctrinal matters? Are there some Muslims who would say "Those over there are not real Muslims", and others who would feel the opposite? Are there sects of Islam that differ on some religious matters?

    I guess what I"m saying is, are there Muslims somewhere who would say "No, we do not stone people to death, we do not whip people", and are they real Muslims?
    There are sects, but they are deviants. If they say such a saying as what you said above: "No, we do not stone...", then they are not following the Law of Allah (swt).

    If they are doing this because their government is corrupt and not following the Shar'iah, then it is their duty to work to change that government until it does,

    If they are preaching this (saying not to stone), then they are deviants causing corruption.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    those who say that are not Muslims because they shun ,don't follow and dislike the Laws of Allah (SWT) aren't Muslims
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    I'm sorry, I can't agree.

    If you decide to support something, to stand by it permanently, you should know everything up front. Anything else is not informed consent.

    I think I've gotten the answers to my first questions, I'll think more on other questions. Thank you all for your help.

    I'll check back to see if anyone else on the board has a different perspective.
    Reading the Qur'an doesn't mean you support it right off the bat. You need to read that first before you will understand the details.

    (reposting this analogy)

    Let me give an analogy. You asking these questions is like a person who just joined the military with no weapons training asking to go directly to sniper school. You need basic weapons training first.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post
    Reading the Qur'an doesn't mean you support it right off the bat. You need to read that first before you will understand the details.

    (reposting this analogy)

    Let me give an analogy. You asking these questions is like a person who just joined the military with no weapons training asking to go directly to sniper school. You need basic weapons training first.
    I'm sorry, but I consider the analogy inapt. I would ask up front under what conditions I'm expected to harm someone. Your analogy addresses issue of method, I'm concered with ends and means.

    Another religion I"ve studied is Mormonism. When I asked questions they did not want to answer, they said "Milk before meat. We can't answer these questions yet because you don't have the training and background in our scripture to understand. Just study what we tell you and leave your questions.."

    If that is the requirement here, then I would not be a good student. Thanks for your help.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    I'm sorry, but I consider the analogy inapt. I would ask up front under what conditions I'm expected to harm someone. Your analogy addresses issue of method, I'm concered with ends and means.

    Another religion I"ve studied is Mormonism. When I asked questions they did not want to answer, they said "Milk before meat. We can't answer these questions yet because you don't have the training and background in our scripture to understand. Just study what we tell you and leave your questions.."

    If that is the requirement here, then I would not be a good student. Thanks for your help.
    No one says "leave your questions" here. But if you don't read the Qur'an, you won't understand Islam.

    Reading the Qur'an doesn't make you a Muslim. You are not forced to do anything. And no one is going to ask you to harm anyone under any condition, so do not fear.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuMusaab View Post
    No one says "leave your questions" here. But if you don't read the Qur'an, you won't understand Islam.

    Reading the Qur'an doesn't make you a Muslim. You are not forced to do anything. And no one is going to ask you to harm anyone under any condition, so do not fear.
    Well, according to the quoted passage towards the beginning of the thread, the Qur'an commands harm, and the impetus for it has been described to me.

    I'll have a look. Thanks for your help.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammurab View Post
    Well, according to the quoted passage towards the beginning of the thread, the Qur'an commands harm, and the impetus for it has been described to me.

    I'll have a look. Thanks for your help.
    Not harm, but punishment. (but I understand your feeling).

    Anyway, get the version I recommended, I think it's the best translation.
    They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at! - al-Qur'an 26:6

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Hammurab as non-Muslim, you might view some punishments in Islam to be harsh, and i understand that. We as Muslims believe that God knows what is best for us, afterall, He is the one who created us, so who better to make our laws.

    We live and we die. Another generation is born after us and they too die. God is All-Living and All-Knowing, He knows what was, what is, what is to come and what it would have been if things were different. He knows all and if God says that 100 lashes is just for certain crimes then it is the truth. If He says that death by stoning is just for another crime then it is the truth.

    Please don't mistake the actions of some Muslims with the religion itself. Muslims are fallible just like any other people and we don't all follow the religion 100%. Some of us make mistakes, some are mis-lead and others are weak. The point is, the religion is one and there aren't different rules for different sects. It's one set of rules for one nation of Muslims.

    As a previous user posted, you should really learn Islam from the roots before looking into what you queried about in your first post. For example, if a person does not believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a Messenger of God, then ofcourse they will be in doubt as to many of his teachings and ways. The first step is to determine whether he is or isn't a Messenger of God, and then you can go into detail about what he teaches. Just as a person may not believe in Allah to be God, then ofcourse they will doubt what they hear Allah allows and what He forbids, because the foundation is not firm.

    Another example, if someone is giving you instructions on how to cook a meal and you are unsure if that person is indeed a chef, then you will doubt the instructions which do not make sense to. If, however you have confirmed that the instructor is indeed a qualified chef, then you will follow his commands and be sure that what he says must be correct.

    Getting back to the Islamic Law and crimes which are punished, this is not something done lightly. I don't have detailed knowledge, but i know there must be a certain amount of witnesses with certain actions being witnessed. The Islamic Punishments such as the death sentence etc can also only be enforced in a country where the Islamic Law (or part thereof) is implemented and you have an Islamic Leader.

    Even at the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a man who confessed to the Prophet that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Did the Prophet immediately order for his death? No. He tried to give the man excuses, suggesting that perhaps the man only looked at the lady or only kissed her. The man said no and that he had infact had intercourse with her and brought forth four witnesses. After his confession the man was then stoned to death.

    I don't have the sources, but you might also want to look at the statistics of certain crimes in certain countries. Compare the rate of illicit intercourse and theft in a country such as Saudi Arabia and a country of the West. I'm sure you'll find quite differing results. You have to ask yourself, why?
    Allaahummaghfir li-hayyinaa wa mayyitinaa wa sagheerinaa wa kabeerinaa wa dhaakarinaa wa unthaanaa wa shaahidinaa wa ghaa'ibinaa
    Allaahumma man a7-yaytahoo min-naa fa a7-yihee 'alal-eemaan wa man tawaffayatahoo min-naa fa tawaffahoo 'alal-Islaam


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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Agree with Sulaiman Harun, it is not random beating of assualt, it is neatly administered as a punishment.

    This is an important point, and one that is always confused with people that is against corporal punishment. There is a big difference between assault/violence and neatly executed corporal punishment, for a specific calculated mistake.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Assalamu alaikum Hammurab. I spent 8 years studying Islam before converting to Islam. I was shocked by the very same things you're now questioning. My perception of the world was completely different before though. What is considered "gruesome" at first becomes understandable later on when you spend a lot of time studying the true meaning of Islam. Where many people view life in a "do everything before you die" manner, Islam doesn't call for that -- it calls for moderation while fulfilling one's religious duties every single day. And for those who venture off to extremism, either too lax or too harsh, there are punishments for them. And not to mention, my understanding of Islam changed when I assumed the idea of Jannah or heaven. Essentially, life here is nothing more than a temporary illusion other than for us to prove our best before we move on.

    With that said, what others have said, corporal punishment is carried out under strict circumstances. However, it is applied inconsistently across different Muslim countries. Some Muslim countries carry it out and some simply don't. There is no real Shari'ah state in this world so there's no real world example of such.

    Not all Muslims agree on all things, whether Islamic ideas or not. And that's pretty normal. Even in the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him), Muslims differed on opinions.

    I also agree that you should spend the time to read the Qur'an in context because it will make you understand the conditions that Islam went through to be one of the largest religions in the world today.

    If you have any questions, please do ask!

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by yiffzer View Post
    Assalamu alaikum Hammurab. I spent 8 years studying Islam before converting to Islam. I was shocked by the very same things you're now questioning. My perception of the world was completely different before though. What is considered "gruesome" at first becomes understandable later on when you spend a lot of time studying the true meaning of Islam. Where many people view life in a "do everything before you die" manner, Islam doesn't call for that -- it calls for moderation while fulfilling one's religious duties every single day. And for those who venture off to extremism, either too lax or too harsh, there are punishments for them. And not to mention, my understanding of Islam changed when I assumed the idea of Jannah or heaven. Essentially, life here is nothing more than a temporary illusion other than for us to prove our best before we move on.

    With that said, what others have said, corporal punishment is carried out under strict circumstances. However, it is applied inconsistently across different Muslim countries. Some Muslim countries carry it out and some simply don't. There is no real Shari'ah state in this world so there's no real world example of such.

    Not all Muslims agree on all things, whether Islamic ideas or not. And that's pretty normal. Even in the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him), Muslims differed on opinions.

    I also agree that you should spend the time to read the Qur'an in context because it will make you understand the conditions that Islam went through to be one of the largest religions in the world today.

    If you have any questions, please do ask!
    The Quran only allows corporal punishment for intentional murder, but also allows exile from the community like life imprisonment as an alternative. A soul for a soul is allowed. But alternative is also allowed.

    Later Muslim authorities broke the soul for soul and introduced many things that are against the teachings of the Koran like stoning adulterer and executing prisoners and executing apostates and lashing people for commiting sins. All of this is against the teachings of the Koran. Only God punishes sins in the Koran. Humans can only punish other humans who inflict some harm on someone else. This lashing for drinking alocol or not fasting ramadan and apostasy law all are unIslamic.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by scottroelof View Post
    Agree with Sulaiman Harun, it is not random beating of assualt, it is neatly administered as a punishment.

    This is an important point, and one that is always confused with people that is against corporal punishment. There is a big difference between assault/violence and neatly executed corporal punishment, for a specific calculated mistake.
    Also The Punishment is there to deter Criminals,

    as opposed to letting them roam free like the Kuffar do, nowadays ...
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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    Also The Punishment is there to deter Criminals,

    as opposed to letting them roam free like the Kuffar do, nowadays ...
    The Quran is concerned about justice and not deterence. Deterence can be excessive, like what dictators do to deter people from opposing them. Justice in the Koran is proportional retribution, soul for soul, eye for eye, nose for nose and tooth for tooth. Free for free, man for man and slave for slave. Apples for apples, oranges for oranges and bananas for bananas. Like a scale, equal weights on both sides. Thats the symbol of justice. Adl and qist and mizan. The Koran tells us to establish the mizan properly.

    Deterence can mean punishing people harder than they deserve to create fear.

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    I have a question for you which should get down to the root of the issue:

    Do you believe morality is objective or subjective; absolute or relative?

    Thanks!

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    Re: Corporal punishment in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Traditionalist View Post
    Later Muslim authorities broke the soul for soul and introduced many things that are against the teachings of the Koran like stoning adulterer and executing prisoners and executing apostates and lashing people for commiting sins. All of this is against the teachings of the Koran. Only God punishes sins in the Koran. Humans can only punish other humans who inflict some harm on someone else. This lashing for drinking alocol or not fasting ramadan and apostasy law all are unIslamic.
    Assalamu alaikum. This is interesting. I've always thought that stoning and executing was part of the Qur'an. Perhaps I might be wrong. Can you provide any information on this? If anyone knows, please chime in.


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