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Kal-El

11-10-06, 04:21 PM

I heard that contraceptives were only allowed in certain cases.

Can anyone clarify this, and what cases they are allowed to be used?

P.S. I was also told that birth control in general, e.g. "the pill", condoms..early withdrawal were allowed as long as consent was given by both partners?

So im getting mixed messages - i just need confirmation.

Al-Irhaab

11-10-06, 04:28 PM

I heard that contraceptives were only allowed in certain cases.

Can anyone clarify this, and what cases they are allowed to be used?

P.S. I was also told that birth control in general, e.g. "the pill", condoms..early withdrawal were allowed as long as consent was given by both partners?

some forms of contraception are allowed others are not it depends upon method of use and on length of effect... can only be used when the wife consents to it aswell

.: Anna :.

11-10-06, 04:32 PM

is contraception permissible (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4735&CATE=117)

Arsalan

11-10-06, 04:34 PM

I dont know much about this but ive read that the best method is sexutus-interruptus-n-sleeputactae. 100% guaranteed.

islam..~*^rules

11-10-06, 04:59 PM

Kal-El

11-10-06, 05:01 PM

OK.

One of the reasons, or circumstances i heard that you cannot use contraception is for financial reasons.

Is this valid because it doesnt make sense.

.: Anna :.

11-10-06, 06:56 PM

tasneem

12-10-06, 03:41 AM

wilford

12-10-06, 06:49 AM

BIRTH CONTROL EDUCATION

"Many teenagers, most commonly in developed countries, receive some form of sex education in school. What information should be provided in such programs is hotly contested, especially in the United States and Great Britain. Possible topics include reproductive anatomy, human sexual behavior, information on sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), social aspects of sexual interaction, negotiating skills intended to help teens follow through with a decision to remain abstinent or to use birth control during sex, and information on birth control methods."

"One type of sex education program, called abstinence-only education, promotes abstinence until marriage and does not provide information on birth control, or heavily emphasizes negative information such as failure rates. Because abstinence offers better protection against pregnancy and disease than sexual activity with even the best birth control methods, advocates of abstinence-only education believe they will result in decreased rates of teenage pregnancy and STD infection. However, some studies have found that abstinence-only sex education programs actually increase the rates of pregnancy and STDs in the teenage population."

______________________________________

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`asiya

12-10-06, 08:35 AM

from what i have understood, contraception is not permissible except with conditions, because the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam said "marry the one who is loving a fertile for i will be proud of your great numbers before the nations" so unless one had a valid shariah reason for using it such as, the wifes health or life will be in danger from pregnancy, or if she has had children very close together and her body needs a break from pregnancy.

Thinking oneself to be poor or thinking that something is more important than raising islamic children ie: making money is not a valid reason in Islam.Allah ta ala provides all we need.

The sahabba only used azl with their slave girls and when one of them came to the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam and asked if that was permissible he was told "why would any of you do that? do you not know that every life that Allah decress to be will come to be " the sahabbi continued to do azl and she became pregnant and the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam smiled..

some scolars say that azl is permissible with the wives permission only because it causes a harm to her to do this, and again it should only be for the reasons of spacing pregnancies or serious risk to the wives health. i understand that using i.d.u`s and the pill is not permissible because they carry very serious health risks.allahu alam.

"And Allah has made for you spouses of your own kind and has made for you, from your wives, sons and grandsons, and has bestowed upon you good provisions." (al-Nahl 72)

Allah also said:

"Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world." (al-Kahf 46)

The only true provider for all mankind is Allah. If Muslims follow what Allah has prescribed for them, Allah will provide for them. Allah has warned about killing one's children out of fear of poverty for either parents or the child. Allah says:

"Kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them" (al-Anaam 151)

Allah also says:

"And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin" (al-Isra 31)

Kal-El

12-10-06, 08:36 AM

funny..i was just researching this topic today. I would say,,,study the quran...the sunnah..some arguments of the scholars, and then make your own decision. At the end of the day...it's a controversial subject.

After reading Anna2000uk's post, how can a counter-argument or perpective be produced?

I'm not that good at researching this stuff, because as you can see - from what i have found out, its a confusing subject with no clear definate answer. How is that anyway good or right?

Kal-El

12-10-06, 08:43 AM

So what if a couple already have alot of children, and the husband cannot afford to support anymore? And she gets pregnant..more kids..less money to go around, doesnt it at the end affect the welfare of these children :rubeyes:

Kal-El

12-10-06, 08:53 AM

Is using contraception, really "killing" a child? The defintion of killing a child would require there to be a child, or e.g. a foetus, in the first place for it be killed. Does the lack of anything in the mother, however, also mean the prevention of a child is the same as killing a child - taking life?

Does using contraception mean (assuming the couple use it temporarly) that no child can ever be born from using those contraceptives back then?

As Anna quoted, the quote specifically relates to a child - so is that quote about abortion, or contraception more so?

Also, didn't society during the time of the Nabi (saw) favour a male boy more so than a female - simply because a baby girl would be more of a financial burden to the couple in the long-run? That's certainly the reason in some societies in the East today. Maybe the killing of the child the Quran refers to, was actually indirectly relating to such cases because it involves the killing of a child for the specific reason of money.

But this all doesnt matter if people dont believe contraception is prevention, not killing.

?????

`asiya

12-10-06, 09:09 AM

Kal-El

12-10-06, 09:15 AM

Yeah bro I have heard this because it is specially said in Quran that Allah will provide the rizq for ur children, we have to trust Allah about this.
If it is haraam to use it for this reason I am not totally sure, maybe it is makrooh? You have to check it with a scholar insha allah. But there are ayahs in the Quran which mention "do not kill your children from fear of poverty." [Using contraception and killing ur children are not the same thing! I would not try to say that, but because this fear of poverty thing has specifically been mentioned, that may be why this reason is a special case...]

These are the two ayahs:

6:151 Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom (surat al an'am)

the emboldened part is in arabic: walaa taqtuloo awlaadakum min imlaaqin naHnu narzuqukum waiyyaahum

17:31 Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin. (surat al isra)

Walaa taqtuloo awlaadakum khashyata imlaaqin naHnu narzuquhum waiyyaakum inna qatlahum kaana khiTan kabeera

We do have to be aware of this... because in Jahiliya in Arabian peninsula they were practising this. Even now... even in such rich countries which we are living in (USA, UK), we have people still persisting in practising this. They are having abortions because they "can't afford" the child... but sometimes we see that they are living a quite luxury lifestyle with expensive cars and holidays, so how cant they afford? :confused: That is even worse... because clearly they can afford but are not willing to make the sacrifices :S

I just read this link.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=4735&CATE=117

All it concludes is that..

1. You can only do it if you have the permission of the other.
2. Permission from your spouse
3. It musn't be permanent, because you have to have children
4. You cannot use it as a tool for planning how many children you'd want.

It doesnt refer to finance at all. But if finance was included, then under what reason/or circumstance is it even possible to use contraception then :confused: There'd be no reason where you are allowed, by the Quran doesn't disallow it..in fact, it speaks about it and provides circumstances (such as above) where it can be used...

But if you bring finance into the equation then...nothing to be said. What could it be allowed for?

P.S.

When the Quran speaks about finance in relation to this (e.g. contraception), is it relating to the possibility that a couple refuse to have children for financial reasons? So it wouldnt be an issue of money, it'd be an issue of the permanent contraception.??

Kal-El

12-10-06, 09:17 AM

i beleive that a pregnancy is the qadr of Allah ta ala, as the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam said its Allah ta ala who gives life and there is nothing anyone can do to prevent themselves becoming pregnant, and tens of thousands of people who used contraception methods correctly and still have children can testify to the fact that no form of contraception is 100%,the sahabba testified to the fact that contraception didnt work.

do not kill your children i understand this refers to the practice that u mentioned of burying their children especially daughters alive, like they do today in china, today this would refer to abortion. u cant kill something that hasnt been concieved yet.the Islamic purpose of marriage is also to increase the ummah, and make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam proud before the nations.

So you're saying contraception is allowed, but shouldn't be used to deny children in the future?

And the only time, therefore, where it is not allowed is when it is used without consent and ofcourse, for the intention of never having children.

So does the argument relating to finance become irrelevant then, as the "killing" quote relates to something other than contraception?

Kal-El

12-10-06, 11:05 AM

Am I wrong, right, crazy?

Or are people just uncomfortable in answering/talking about this?

`asiya

12-10-06, 11:11 AM

So you're saying contraception is allowed, but shouldn't be used to deny children in the future?

And the only time, therefore, where it is not allowed is when it is used without consent and ofcourse, for the intention of never having children.

So does the argument relating to finance become irrelevant then, as the "killing" quote relates to something other than contraception?

contraception is only allowed under specific shariah conditions.which is a harm to the woman through pregnancy or childbirth ( but even then if a woman dies with child then she dies as shaheed and i know what id do)

The issue of finance is relevant only to those who think that lack of finance is a valid reason to delay having children. It is not a valid reason. Allah ta ala has already written for everyone what their provision will be, and it is Allah ta ala that we rely upon.

Kal-El

12-10-06, 11:24 AM

contraception is only allowed under specific shariah conditions.which is a harm to the woman through pregnancy or childbirth ( but even then if a woman dies with child then she dies as shaheed and i know what id do)

But there is evidence that is allowed in other cirumstances? For example, the whole "consent" aspect would not be included if contraception was only used for the protection of the mother.

In fact, it actually implies a more personal use considering that both couples need to be united in choosing whether or not they are okay in using it.

I also believe that finance can be a factor to which a couple might use contraception, but only under context. I gave an example earlier, if a couple had several children, and they could not afford to support anymore, yet did not use contraception, the welfare of those children could be in the balance. Am I wrong to assume that?

However, if a couple were to use protection early on their married lives yet wanted children after this brief period of using contraception, then are they sinning?

What's interesting regarding this whole thing, is that it is still not fully clear when contraception can be used, and it is also ENTIRELY not clear when it cannot be used for - oddly. There is no "if its for this only, then everything else is a NO".

I listed above in previous posts the research i did, stating when it can be used for. But, "UR SISTER" here completly blew that out of the water by stating that Shariah only defines it "allowed" in cases for the protection of the mother (could also mean e.g. pregnancy frequency).

Kal-El

12-10-06, 11:26 AM

The issue of finance ... is not a valid reason. Allah ta ala has already written for everyone what their provision will be, and it is Allah ta ala that we rely upon.

Yes, but how will we know what has been written for us in terms of provision? :confused:

`asiya

12-10-06, 12:13 PM

But there is evidence that is allowed in other cirumstances? For example, the whole "consent" aspect would not be included if contraception was only used for the protection of the mother.

In fact, it actually implies a more personal use considering that both couples need to be united in choosing whether or not they are okay in using it.

I also believe that finance can be a factor to which a couple might use contraception, but only under context. I gave an example earlier, if a couple had several children, and they could not afford to support anymore, yet did not use contraception, the welfare of those children could be in the balance. Am I wrong to assume that?

However, if a couple were to use protection early on their married lives yet wanted children after this brief period of using contraception, then are they sinning?

What's interesting regarding this whole thing, is that it is still not fully clear when contraception can be used, and it is also ENTIRELY not clear when it cannot be used for - oddly. There is no "if its for this only, then everything else is a NO".

I listed above in previous posts the research i did, stating when it can be used for. But, "UR SISTER" here completly blew that out of the water by stating that Shariah only defines it "allowed" in cases for the protection of the mother (could also mean e.g. pregnancy frequency).

i beleive they are sinning using contraception in that case because scolars such as ibn taymiyyah and others have clearly stated that if one does not want children then u should not get married it is an injustice to your wife and children and why say the duaa that every muslim must say before going to his wife asking Allah ta ala to bless that union if your not intentding to have children, secondly the reason that a muslim is rewarded for sleeping with his wife, is because they expect that Allah ta ala may bless them with a child insha Allah.

the issue of consent of the woman comes into it for two reasons, firstly it diminshes a womans pleasure to do azl.and secindly it is also a womans right to have children and no man has the right to refuse her children if she is a free woman, in the case of a slave she will become a free woman if she gives birth to a muslim child,and the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam did not forbid the sahabbas from practising azl with slaves, but also as he pointed out there was no point in doing azl in the first place as Allah ta ala decides when a soul shall come to be.

as for provision u dont need to know what is written for u, you just need to trust in Allah ta ala that he provides for all his creation.i just see all this contraception stuff and the millions of exuses people have for that as modernisim. u get married u have kids and increase the ummah as the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam and the sahabba did khalass. why otherwise did he tell u to marry the one who is loving and fertile?

islam..~*^rules

12-10-06, 12:13 PM

`asiya

12-10-06, 12:19 PM

yep thats azl

Kal-El

12-10-06, 12:25 PM

i beleive they are sinning using contraception in that case because scolars such as ibn taymiyyah and others have clearly stated that if one does not want children then u should not get married it is an injustice to your wife and children and why say the duaa that every muslim must say before going to his wife asking Allah ta ala to bless that union if your not intentding to have children, secondly the reason that a muslim is rewarded for sleeping with his wife, is because they expect that Allah ta ala may bless them with a child insha Allah.

Yes that is true if you get married and do not intend on children. But the example of the couple do want children - just not straight away e.g. concieve on their wedding night.

Yet the scholars only referred to those who do not want children at all. I guess those who do want children, just not straight away, lay somewhere in the middle in terms of that.

Kal-El

12-10-06, 12:27 PM

in using contraception ive herd that there are sunnah ways in doing it so it does not harm ur body
contraception ie pills and condoms can likely harm the fellow being, coz pills hav side effects and condoms can be too tight? and in that way partners shud use the sunnah way.
i do no more but :embar:

So what would be the sunnah way?

Azl? But doesn't that have its disadvantage in that it lowers the pleasure for the wife..hence should not be used? :confused:

Kal-El

12-10-06, 12:37 PM

the issue of consent of the woman comes into it for two reasons, firstly it diminshes a womans pleasure to do azl.and secindly it is also a womans right to have children and no man has the right to refuse her children if she is a free woman, in the case of a slave she will become a free woman if she gives birth to a muslim child,and the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam did not forbid the sahabbas from practising azl with slaves, but also as he pointed out there was no point in doing azl in the first place as Allah ta ala decides when a soul shall come to be.

But if the only valid reason why you can use contraception is for the protection of the mother e.g. for health reasons, then why is it relevant he or she would want to be asked?

If they wanted to sleep together, then they would have to use it anyway - so what does this concept of choice/consent relate to? :confused:

`asiya

12-10-06, 12:46 PM

But if the only valid reason why you can use contraception is for the protection of the mother e.g. for health reasons, then why is it relevant he or she would want to be asked?

If they wanted to sleep together, then they would have to use it anyway - so what does this concept of choice/consent relate to? :confused:

some men prevent their wives from having children, and take away their rights, as some women try to prevent their husbands, so the permission from both sides has to be there, maybe a woman has enough taqwa to go through a pregnancy after some doctor (who could have got it all wrong anyway) told her that it will cause her a harm, and her husband wants to prevent her from having a baby because he is afraid his wife will die.

His wife on the other hand doesnt care because she trusts in Allah ta ala and leaves the matter with him, cos if she dies with child then she will be in jannah insha Allah, and shes not afraid of that so she leaves it with Allah ta ala.

anyway all theoretical but u see the point insha Allah consent has to be there.

`asiya

12-10-06, 12:53 PM

Yes that is true if you get married and do not intend on children. But the example of the couple do want children - just not straight away e.g. concieve on their wedding night.

Yet the scholars only referred to those who do not want children at all. I guess those who do want children, just not straight away, lay somewhere in the middle in terms of that.

why on earth would u get married if u didnt want to have children thats just an insult to your wife/husband

islam..~*^rules

12-10-06, 12:55 PM

So what would be the sunnah way?

Azl? But doesn't that have its disadvantage in that it lowers the pleasure for the wife..hence should not be used? :confused:

there are other ways to pkeasure ur wife u knw! but knw the meaning of that at the time the guys about to hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... ryt at the ending then he takes it out!

Kal-El

12-10-06, 12:55 PM

some men prevent their wives from having children, and take away their rights, as some women try to prevent their husbands, so the permission from both sides has to be there, maybe a woman has enough taqwa to go through a pregnancy after some doctor (who could have got it all wrong anyway) told her that it will cause her a harm, and her husband wants to prevent her from having a baby because he is afraid his wife will die.

His wife on the other hand doesnt care because she trusts in Allah ta ala and leaves the matter with him, cos if she dies with child then she will be in jannah insha Allah, and shes not afraid of that so she leaves it with Allah ta ala.

anyway all theoretical but u see the point insha Allah consent has to be there.

Consent to impregnate her? :confused I really dont think the consent aspect the Quran is speaking of relates to that. Husbands cannt not allow their wives to have children, but the Quran in relation to this ,whether or not he is okay, or she is okay with using contraceptions - meaning either choice they make is fine by Allah, right?

Kal-El

12-10-06, 12:58 PM

why on earth would u get married if u didnt want to have children thats just an insult to your wife

I didn't say it like that.

I said, if they chose not to have children straight away.

What if the wife and husband choose to wait..what is the technicality of that in relation to the use of contraception?

Is there none?

Or would it mean they just avoid having sex altogether for that short duration? Or would that be makrooh as then the lack of pleasure? :confused: and so, they'd be allowed to use a form of contraception for that short duration?

`asiya

12-10-06, 01:06 PM

already explained if her life/health is not in danger then they have no valid shariah excuse to delay having children.Allah knows what is best for us and Allah ta ala would not decree something that was bad for us always there is great wisdom in what Allah decrees for us although we might see it as something bad because of our short~sightedness.

Kal-El

12-10-06, 01:16 PM

.: Anna :.

12-10-06, 01:24 PM

There is quite widespread opinion that you can use contraception for reasons of delaying for example if the parents have to finish their education before having children... I follow that :p It is not the same as financial reasons, and it can be understandable bc once u hav kids it would b very hard 2 actually complete ur education. So if u hav 2 delay for 1 or 2 yrs to complete that, insha allah there is not harm in it if there is the consent of both spouses. Asiya sis u are saying "if u dnt want kids yet dnt get married", but marriage can become fardh on people in some situations or perhaps they want to do it to complete half their deen and protect them from zina, but they are still young and in school...

`asiya

12-10-06, 01:25 PM

Does the Quran actually refer to the example I gave.."delaying"?

As far as I know, the Quran teaches that married couples should not prevent children if they are capable of having so, because Allah wants us to increase the ummah - similarly expressed in Hadiths.

But does it say we must have children as often, as soon as we can? If it did - then the delaying would become haram. But as far as i know, it doesn't mention to a context similar to the example i gave

so masha allah u answered ur own question

when u said "As far as I know, the Quran teaches that married couples should not prevent children if they are capable of having so, because Allah wants us to increase the ummah - similarly expressed in Hadiths."

so if u are married then there is nothing at all to prevent u from having children other than your own personal desires to not have them.

`asiya

12-10-06, 01:34 PM

islam..~*^rules

12-10-06, 01:40 PM

why on earth would u get married if u didnt want to have children thats just an insult to your wife/husband

this topic shud be discussed widthe partner befor marrig! it cud cause argen=ments between the hubby and wifey. its no insult but if it is even some sisters dnt want children and bomb the news on their hubs after marig!! or vice versa!!!

Kal-El

12-10-06, 01:49 PM

Contraception for the Sake of Enjoyment

Q: Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. Is it allowed in Islam to use contraception (family planning) for the first couple of years of marriage just for the sake of the husband and wife enjoying each other and not being willing to take on the responsibility of raising kids. Please answer me in both of these cases: 1. if both husband and wife agree to do so; 2. if husband does not agree, and he wants to have children without any wait. Jazakum Allah khayran.

Answer:

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, we highly appreciate the great confidence you place in us. May Allah reward you abundantly for your interest in knowing the teachings of Islam!

First of all, we would like to stress that the preservation of the human race is unquestionably one of the primary objectives of marriage, along with giving the man and woman a halal outlet for their natural sexual urges. Accordingly, Islam encourages having many children and blesses both male and female offspring.

Answering your question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

“Islam encourages us to marry and procreate. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Marry and procreate.” Procreation is definitely one of the stated purposes of marriage in Islam. Children are Allah’s gifts, which we must welcome and cherish as a divine gift.

Islam is opposed to ways of life which consider children as a burden; the unfortunate outcome of such hedonistic philosophies is to prefer pets such as dogs and cats over children. Muslims must never be carried away by such materialistic philosophies; they can immunize themselves against such negative influences by strictly conforming to the Qur’anic teachings on marriage and procreation.

Viewed from this perspective, Islam does not look favorably at family planning if it is carried out for the simple reason of enjoyment and unwillingness to take on the responsibility of parenting.

Having said this, however, I must say the following. Since Islam considers quality more important than quantity, if the couple is resorting to contraception for any one of the following reasons, it may be considered permissible:

1. If both spouses are students whose academic performance would be adversely affected by taking on the added responsibility of parenting.

2. If they are too young to shoulder parental responsibilities.

3. If one or both of them are weak or sick and expect to take on the responsibility when the condition improves.

4. If they are burdened with responsibilities of taking care of their parents in advanced age, which drain them physically and emotionally.

5. If they are doing so only for a limited time (for instance the first one or two years) in order to be able to get to know each other, and thus prepare themselves better for shouldering such responsibilities.

6. If they are doing so in order to have gaps between pregnancies with a view to provide quality care and attention to the existing children.

7. If the wife cannot bear children because of medical reasons.

Now coming to the final point in your question, I must say:

Since the right to have children is shared equally between husband and wife, neither one of them should resort to contraception unilaterally. Rather, he or she is allowed to do so only through consensual agreement. The only exception to this rule is when the pregnancy is determined to be a risk to the wife’s life. In this case, she does not need permission of her husband to resort to contraception.”

And also, Mutual Agreement to Delay Pregnancy (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545534)

Reading those pages, its clearly stating that contraception is allowed for other reasons.

:confused:

Kal-El

12-10-06, 01:50 PM

so masha allah u answered ur own question

when u said "As far as I know, the Quran teaches that married couples should not prevent children if they are capable of having so, because Allah wants us to increase the ummah - similarly expressed in Hadiths."

so if u are married then there is nothing at all to prevent u from having children other than your own personal desires to not have them.

The key word here is delay.

Delaying to have children.

Does the Quran contradict that, and say you must not delay children and hence have children as often and as soon as you can?

Kal-El

12-10-06, 01:53 PM

yea but sis anna... what about when the wife becomes pregnant ( even though they used contraception) and her husband orders her to go off and get an abortion because he doesnt beleive that its haram before 120 days and then shes told that she has to obey her husband in that .... it all gets very messy then, so safer not to marry such a man i say plus sadly today when a man tells u he doesnt want kids usually means he wants to wait till his british passport comes through so he can divorce u with no ties.

and anyway whats the point of delaying having kids for your education when your just going to have kids when u finish it, then u wont be able to work or use that education anyway cos then u have to raise your kids for the next 25 years. so there was no point getting an education in the first place, waste of time and money then and anyway non islamic education wil get u nothing . and having good muslim kids will be one of the good deeds u leave behind after your death., plus u make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam proud by increasing the ummah insha Allah so i know whats more important to me.

and whats with all this waiting what are we all waiting for? has anyone got some sort of paper from Allah ta ala with a gaurentee that u are going to live till a certain age?

The reason a couple could wait is that perhaps they feel aren't ready for the responsibility of having children (especially if they're both studying and working for the income), maybe the mother is too nervous or doesnt feel mature enough for it? Maybe both?

Just because it is said MARRY AND PROCREATE, doesn't mean its haram to delay it for a year or two. In fact, that MARRY AND PROCREATE could be interpreted as "marry and have kids one day/ marry and dont avoid children", but that itself could be seen as "dont avoid them forever" and not as "sure, you dont have to now..but later, you must"

islam..~*^rules

12-10-06, 01:54 PM

the husband and wife in the first few years first come to get too knw each oda!!!

Kal-El

12-10-06, 01:58 PM

the husband and wife in the first few years first come to get too knw each oda!!!

I think that particular answer more-so tries to express that a couple might not feel comfortable (maybe they're shy..and like you said, they're still getting to know each other) during the early part of their marriage, and with this unease dont feel comfortable in then being told the wife is pregnant!

So it relates more so to a mental reason which is really what im trying to point out.

What if the couple dont feel psychologically ready for the responsibility of a baby straight away when they marry? Especially if they're a young couple?

Or is that irrelevant?

islam..~*^rules

12-10-06, 03:13 PM

I think that particular answer more-so tries to express that a couple might not feel comfortable (maybe they're shy..and like you said, they're still getting to know each other) during the early part of their marriage, and with this unease dont feel comfortable in then being told the wife is pregnant!

So it relates more so to a mental reason which is really what im trying to point out.

What if the couple dont feel psychologically ready for the responsibility of a baby straight away when they marry? Especially if they're a young couple?

Or is that irrelevant?

nah but some young couples amy be redy for having str8 away coz they feel they can be responsible enuf to luk after them. :p yeh some dnt feel redy to hav babies str8 away psychologically. but in some cases both partners tend to get more responsible and get to knw each oda beta with th earrival of a baby!! birth control depends on what the hubby and wife want!

Kal-El

12-10-06, 03:43 PM

`asiya

12-10-06, 05:17 PM

Allah ta ala says in al Quran that he has made us in pairs to have mates, to marry, to procreate,to have large families, the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam said marry the one who is loving and fertile ( he didnt say render her unfertile after marriage cos then what was the point of marrying a fertile woman) is all i have to say is

"Islam began as something strange, and it shall return to being something strange, so give glad tidings to the strangers."

Kal-El

12-10-06, 05:20 PM

Kal-El

12-10-06, 05:23 PM

[QUOTE=ur sister;1315631]Allah ta ala says in al Quran that he has made us in pairs to have mates, to marry, to procreate,to have large families, the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam said marry the one who is loving and fertile ( he didnt say render her unfertile after marriage cos then what was the point of marrying a fertile woman)
/QUOTE]

Yes I agree with you, but this only answers the question "When you marry, should you have children?". It does not relate to short-term contraception in anyway.

`asiya

12-10-06, 05:24 PM

It's ok if you dont know the answer to the question. But I'd anyone to share their thoughts on this because it seems to be in a grey area, 'A couple who intend to have children, but do not want a baby straight away so early in their young marriage - can they use contraception for a short period of time?'

And on a personal note, I would love to have kids one day but if i was married today, then I don't think it's something I'd be hoping for (my wife to tell me shes pregnant tomorrow) because I personally dont think im responsible enough to have children.

But I would never tell her to use e.g. the pill if she didn't want to.

i already answered your question way back, and i do not beleive that it is permissible in Islam to use contraception other than if the wifes life is in danger khalass.u have 9 months to get to know each other and spend time alone before the baby comes. ( also very unusual that a woman would not want a child from her husband, right away most women are extremely maternal )

u didnt answer mine what if u get married use contraception then the wife gets pregnant anyway, then what ? ask her to get an abortion? are you one of those with the opinion also that abortion is permissible before 120 days?

after all u have clearly stated that neither party is ready for kids, they are too immature or whatever, so what then? what happens to the baby then? no method of contraception is 100% so what happens when your plans all go pear shaped

Kal-El

12-10-06, 06:15 PM

i already answered your question way back, and i do not beleive that it is permissible in Islam to use contraception other than if the wifes life is in danger khalass.u have 9 months to get to know each other and spend time alone before the baby comes. ( also very unusual that a woman would not want a child from her husband, right away most women are extremely maternal )

u didnt answer mine what if u get married use contraception then the wife gets pregnant anyway, then what ? ask her to get an abortion? are you one of those with the opinion also that abortion is permissible before 120 days?

after all u have clearly stated that neither party is ready for kids, they are too immature or whatever, so what then? what happens to the baby then? no method of contraception is 100% so what happens when your plans all go pear shaped

I'm not satisfied with your original answer but it doesn't matter anymore.

As of your question, if my wife got pregnant tomorrow then i would not ask for an abortion, i would never. I dont believe in it anyway. We'd both have to fight our doubts of "can we do this" and just try to be the best parents we can for our child.

It would be a struggle, but we have a child now - we wouldnt have time to think about our stuff in hindsight. We wouldnt have a choice anyway, we'd just have to roll the square-blocks up the hill

`asiya

12-10-06, 06:41 PM

I'm not satisfied with your original answer but it doesn't matter anymore.

As of your question, if my wife got pregnant tomorrow then i would not ask for an abortion, i would never. I dont believe in it anyway. We'd both have to fight our doubts of "can we do this" and just try to be the best parents we can for our child.

It would be a struggle, but we have a child now - we wouldnt have time to think about our stuff in hindsight. We wouldnt have a choice anyway, we'd just have to roll the square-blocks up the hill

well there u go

so why not just do that in the first place :rolleyes:

Nawar

12-10-06, 07:03 PM

Kal-El

12-10-06, 07:56 PM

Some of the posts by some people on this thread are just vile.

I know you are posting from behind a computer screen, but that doesnt mean your modesty goes out the window.

Kal-El, I think you have sufficient answer.

Although I seriously dont understand why people ask such questions on a open forum. Go to a scholar to obtain your Islamic knowledge on such issues inshallah and a serious answer. There are different opinions etc, so here is NOT really the place, because you will confuse yourself, and it leads to convos of an inappropiate nature.

Who are you to judge what answer is sufficient or not sufficient to a point/question that I am asking? If the answer was sufficient enough to me, then, good sir, would I still be asking the question?

So perhaps you are actually saying, the answer to my question, was sufficient enough for you - then in which case, goodbye.

I feel more comfortable in asking the question indirectly (as you say, this is only a screen) instead of searching for a scholar that doesn't know me, because I know if I ask this to one which I know of personally, he'd skip along and tell my mother - and she practically denies the existence of women when talking about it to me :rolleyes:

So I will ask what I feel is appropiate, and where I feel it is appropiate. It's an Islamic forum, what would you like me to talk about? A cup of tea?

We're all old and mature enough to know what contraception involves - and I believe we've all handled that aspect maturely.

If you do not like what people are able to ask in an open forum, behind a screen, then gotta ask yourself if it's worth the stay? I guess its not "vile" enough for you to leave yet then. In which case...welcome.

Kal-El

12-10-06, 07:58 PM

well there u go

so why not just do that in the first place :rolleyes:

Because sis, then you would have no choice but to follow that path, so in other words, you'd be pushed onto a car which doesn't stop.

You can't just say "why dont you do that now", because (well i havent confirmed this), I suspect there is a choice for a young married couple who are uncomfortable in raising a child together at the beginning of their married lives.

Nawar

12-10-06, 08:21 PM

Who are you to judge what answer is sufficient or not sufficient to a point/question that I am asking? If the answer was sufficient enough to me, then, good sir, would I still be asking the question?

So perhaps you are actually saying, the answer to my question, was sufficient enough for you - then in which case, goodbye.

I feel more comfortable in asking the question indirectly (as you say, this is only a screen) instead of searching for a scholar that doesn't know me, because I know if I ask this to one which I know of personally, he'd skip along and tell my mother - and she practically denies the existence of women when talking about it to me :rolleyes:

So I will ask what I feel is appropiate, and where I feel it is appropiate. It's an Islamic forum, what would you like me to talk about? A cup of tea?

We're all old and mature enough to know what contraception involves - and I believe we've all handled that aspect maturely.

If you do not like what people are able to ask in an open forum, behind a screen, then gotta ask yourself if it's worth the stay? I guess its not "vile" enough for you to leave yet then. In which case...welcome.

If I see some vile, or something inappropiate, I will say so. I didnt read much of the thread, because quite frankly, some of the posts are ridiculous, and clearly lack Islamic etiquette.

You cannot obtain Islamic fiqh, from an internet forum. Simple as that, and you WILL confuse yourself.

Anyway, its clear from your reply you barely know how to speak to a fellow muslim with adhab let alone understand what Im trying to say, so Im not going to bother.

Wa alaykum salaam

Kal-El

12-10-06, 08:25 PM

If I see some vile, or something inappropiate, I will say so. I didnt read much of the thread, because quite frankly, some of the posts are ridiculous, and clearly lack Islamic etiquette.

You cannot obtain Islamic fiqh, from an internet forum. Simple as that, and you WILL confuse yourself.

Anyway, its clear from your reply you barely know how to speak to a fellow muslim with adhab let alone understand what Im trying to say, so Im not going to bother.

Wa alaykum salaam

Yes ofcourse, turn around and walk away with that ego of yours - clearly one so big you seem to be blind to the irony in your post.

I will not be dismissed in my quest for answers by the naive, who evidently preach kindness (.."barely know how to speak to a fellow Muslim") yet ironically show little of it (.."I think you have a sufficient answer"), especially in such a way

Nusayba bint Ka'b

12-10-06, 08:30 PM

Its Ramadan Ya Muslimeen:love:
The month of forgiveness and dua.

Dont speak to each other rudely...

This goes for each of you who have posted on this thread......and for me too ofcourse

Itaku'Allah

`asiya

12-10-06, 08:46 PM

:rubeyes: right well thats me told off then although i dont beleive i have been rude to anyone nor have i used vile language, or indeed done anything other than discuss an islamic issue which is clearly discussed in Quran and sahih sunnah there is no shame in discussing our deen, and clearly it needs discussing so many muslims today believe this to be a permissible issue,because they have their priorities firmly rooted in their personal preferences and the dunya, and i think it is appauling how selfish we became as an ummah what happened to doing things for the sake of Allah ta ala, this is just another example of why our ummah is in such a mess, no one wants to be responsible,they want all the fun without the responsability, its all about the dunya for many today

Kal-El

12-10-06, 08:54 PM

I'm only questioning about the aspects of our faith which are open to personal choice of the person - I personally don't consider anything else up for discussion.

This "consent" issue originally caught my attention regarding this subject because It seems to imply "personal choice" regarding it but only based on certain contexts - and it is my belief that the "consent" aspect does not relate to the concept of simply e.g. a husband refusing his wife a child.

Nusayba bint Ka'b

12-10-06, 08:54 PM

I love you all for Allahs sake:love:

ur sister dont give up giving us your dawah, we love it and we learn lots from you ukthii, so dont get discouraged:)

There is no shyness in learning about our deen, remember sister nawar the things that ansari women used to ask rasululah (saw)? If it wasnt for their questions many of our questions today would never have been able to be answered.:)

Masslama

where did everyone go?

Nawar

12-10-06, 09:26 PM

I made an observation, about some of the posts...SOME :smack:

All my point was, that we should think before we type, and think about the senstivities of the topic we are discussing. One can still observe Islamic etiquette, and learn the deen.

And to be honest, if you have access to the internet, you probably have access to a book, or you probably have access to the mosque or scholar, you probably have access to a fellow sister or brother who can guide you and you can discuss such matters. Alhumdulillah.

Jazakullah khayr.

Al-Irhaab

12-10-06, 09:32 PM

i already answered your question way back, and i do not beleive that it is permissible in Islam to use contraception other than if the wifes life is in danger khalass.u have 9 months to get to know each other and spend time alone before the baby comes. ( also very unusual that a woman would not want a child from her husband, right away most women are extremely maternal )

u didnt answer mine what if u get married use contraception then the wife gets pregnant anyway, then what ? ask her to get an abortion? are you one of those with the opinion also that abortion is permissible before 120 days?

after all u have clearly stated that neither party is ready for kids, they are too immature or whatever, so what then? what happens to the baby then? no method of contraception is 100% so what happens when your plans all go pear shaped

birth control has been permitted by the prophet (saw)... i think ur confusing birth control with abortion... abortion is only allowed when the wifes life is in danger... birth control is allowed if u dont want kids... it is from the hadith where the prophet (Saw) permitted widthrawl... i havent heard of any alim forbidding birth control???

Weargh

12-10-06, 09:56 PM

Kal-El

12-10-06, 09:58 PM

ur_yusra

12-10-06, 10:05 PM

Whats the problem here..

Does it matter whether you use control methods or not when Allah (swt) can create a child from a mans seed planted on a rock if he so wished?

Choose a scholar you trust and follow him.

Whats the big deal.

Al-Irhaab

12-10-06, 10:31 PM

What no one has considered, is that perhaps atleast some of these "opinions" by people are actually "facts" that have been passed onto them by family members or even scholars.

The real fact here - is that they all contradict each other. And that is a cause for concern.

no the only contradictions are because of lack of knowledge...

contraception is permitted if it falls with certain categories...

1) permant contraception is forbidden, so know tying the tubes, castration etc..

2) other type of contraception is off two types..

a) prevents fertilisation
b) precents development of fertilised egg..

a) is permitted generally
b) is forbidden unless woman is gonna die otherwise...

anyway hope that helps...

islam..~*^rules

13-10-06, 12:37 PM

So what if they both feel psychologically they're not ready to start buying Diapers just yet? :D

And please dont say "well they shouldnt have married then in the first place!" or something similar :D That's to you, "ur sister"

as long as the contraception the partners use doenst harm them or prevents them from having babies in the future, i ges its all ryt!! but they cannot say that they never want children but they will be redy for them inshaallah in the future :D :rolleyes:
babies are signs of happinesss :D well i love them neway
Some of the posts by some people on this thread are just vile.

I know you are posting from behind a computer screen, but that doesnt mean your modesty goes out the window.

i hope ur not twking bwt me becoz i think this issue shud be openly discussed neway!
theres nufinwrong with gettin SOME info from islamic websites and these little bits of info can actually help because there is some truth in them :p

If I see some vile, or something inappropiate, I will say so. I didnt read much of the thread, because quite frankly, some of the posts are ridiculous, and clearly lack Islamic etiquette.

You cannot obtain Islamic fiqh, from an internet forum. Simple as that, and you WILL confuse yourself.

Anyway, its clear from your reply you barely know how to speak to a fellow muslim with adhab let alone understand what Im trying to say, so Im not going to bother.

Wa alaykum salaam

and u can be really rude my dear brother to people!

`asiya

13-10-06, 12:45 PM

birth control has been permitted by the prophet (saw)... i think ur confusing birth control with abortion... abortion is only allowed when the wifes life is in danger... birth control is allowed if u dont want kids... it is from the hadith where the prophet (Saw) permitted widthrawl... i havent heard of any alim forbidding birth control???

its allowed with slave women the hadith are about slave women and the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam said it makes no difference if u do that or not Allah ta ala creates whom he wills, nothing will stop that. once u are all married u will know why the permitted forms of birth control ie: azl are extremely harmful to a woman and thus u need the permission of a free woman to do such a thing.

it is only on this forum that i have ever come across muslims advocating birth control its shocking to me that muslims would not want to increase this ummah and make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam proud before the nations.

`asiya

13-10-06, 12:50 PM

Is it permissible to use birth control because one is afraid to have children due to the corruption of society?

Question:
Is it permissible to use birth control so that a person has a child every five years, because he sees the corruption in society and would not be able to raise a lot of children close in age in this overwhelmingly corrupt society?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We put this question to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, may Allaah preserve him, who replied:

So long as this is the intention, then it is not permissible to do this, because it reflects a lack of trust in Allaah with regard to the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who said “Marry the one who is loving and fertile…”

But if the birth control has to do with the condition of the woman – because she cannot cope with repeated pregnancies – this may be permissible, but it is better not to do it.

Question: Do you mean that it is more important to pay attention to the woman’s condition than to the corrupt nature of society?

Answer: Of course, because there is no certainty that one’s children will be corrupt; they may be righteous people who will bring benefits to society. And Allaah knows best.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen

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Using birth control pills at first in case the marriage fails

Question:
Is it permissable for a woman to go on the pill (female contraception) prior to her marriage, so as to avoid pregnancy in case the marriage does not work out (ie. she becomes pregnant and then they divorce and she is left with the child)? Should she inform her spouse on the wedding night or prior to the nikkah that she is on the pill? In light of the above, is it permissible to use contraceptives to avoid pregnancy in the event that the marriage might not work out (ie for the first year of the marriage)?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

If it is medically proven that birth control pills are harmful to women, then it is not permissible to use them either before marriage or afterwards, on the basis of the rule that no harm should be done. This rule is based on the aayaat (interpretation of the meanings):

“And do not kill yourselves” [al-Nisa’ 4:29]

“and do not throw yourselves into destruction” [al-Baqarah 2:195]

Unless it is possible to produce pills that are free of harmful side effects, they should not be taken.

As for using any non-harmful means of contraception at the beginning of marriage, fearing that the marriage may not work out, there are a number of reservations about this, such as:

it may be a kind of pessimism, because you are expecting it to fail.

It may lead to an unhappy marital life and both spouses expecting bad of one another, because it is known that one of the most important purposes of marriage is to have children, and if this is delayed for a specific reason the relationship may cool off. If the husband finds out that this is what his wife is doing, it will spoil the relationship between them.

Pregnancy is one of the most important functions of women, which generates feelings of love and compassion towards her husband and children. If pregnancy is prevented the opposite feelings develop.

The fuqahaa’ (may Allaah have mercy on them) stipulated the condition for ‘azl (coitus interruptus) or other forms of contraception used by the woman, that it should only be done with the permission of the other spouse, because both of them have the right to have children. So it is not permissible for the wife to take birth control pills without her husband’s permission and consent.

The fear that the marriage may fail and the fact that there is a high divorce rate cannot be dealt with in this manner. The way to deal with it is to make the right choice of spouse and make sure that this is the right choice. The prospective husband should be allowed to see the prospective wife, because this is one of the ways of fostering love after marriage. Other means should also be used. We ask Allaah to guide us all. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

************************************************** ********

Question:
What is the shar’i ruling on using the coil (IUD – intrauterine device) as a means of preventing pregnancy, knowing that this means does not prevent fertilization of the egg, but it prevents the embryo from attaching itself to the wall of the uterus? May Allaah reward you with good.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

What the Muslims should do is to have as many children as they can, because this is the command issued by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said, “Marry the one who is loving and fertile, for I will be proud of your great numbers.” Because increasing the number of children increases the size of the ummah, and being of great numbers is a source of pride, as Allaah said, reminding the Children of Israel of that (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We helped you with wealth and children and made you more numerous in man-power” [al-Israa’ 17:6]

And Shu’ayb said to his people:

“ ‘And remember when you were but few, and He multiplied you’”

[al-A’raaf 7:86 – interpretation of the meaning]

No one would deny that if the ummah is great in number this will lend it pride and strength. This is contrary to what is imagined by those who think evil thoughts, that the large numbers of the ummah is the cause of its poverty and hunger. If the ummah increases in number and relies on Allaah, and believes in His promise, in the aayah “And no moving (living) creature is there on earth but its provision is due from Allaah” [Hood 11:6 – interpretation of the meaning], then Allaah will make things easy for them and will grant them sufficient means from His Bounty.

On this basis, the answer to the question is as follows:

A woman should not use birth control pills unless the following two conditions are met:

(1) She should have a reason for that such as being sick and unable to bear a pregnancy every year, or being physically weak, or having other reasons why getting pregnant every year would be harmful for her.

(2) Her husband should give his permission, because the husband has the right to have children. This must also be done in consultation with a doctor, to find out whether taking these pills will be harmful to her or not.

If these two conditions are met, then it is OK for her to use these pills, but that should not be on a permanent basis, i.e., she should not use the type of birth control pills that prevent pregnancy permanently, because this is preventing progeny.

(Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, 2/657, 658)

Concerning the harms caused by contraception, the Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Birth control pills: I have heard from a number of sources that doctors say they are harmful. Even if we do not know this from the doctors, we know it from ourselves, because preventing something natural that Allaah has created and decreed for the daughters of Adam is undoubtedly harmful. Allaah is Wise, and He has only created this blood which flows at certain times for a reason. If we prevent it with these medicines, that is harmful without a doubt.

But I have heard that the matter is worse than we imagine, that they may be a means of damaging the womb, and a means of causing nervous disorders. This is something we must beware of.

(Liqaa’ al-Baab al-Maftooh, question no. 1147)

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:

What is the ruling on removing the uterus in order to avoid having children for medical reasons which are either present, or may occur in the future and have been predicted by medical and scientific means?

He answered: if that is necessary, then it is OK, otherwise it should not be done, because the Lawgiver urges us to have children and promotes that in order to increase the size of the ummah. But if there is a necessary reason then it is OK, just as it is permissible to use means of contraception for a limited time for a legitimate shar’i reason. (9/434)

What is said concerning the birth control pill may also be said concerning the coil. It has been definitely proven by the doctors that this contraceptive method causes harm, especially when it is used continually. It is known that the woman who has a coil inserted has an increased flow of menstrual blood, and her period may come twice a month, which causes an iron deficiency in her body. Iron is one of the important minerals which the body needs. Some women may become anaemic when they use the coil and it makes their periods longer, resulting in the woman losing a large amount of blood and thus a large amount of the iron stored in the body. It has also been proven that many women suffer infections of the uterus as a result of using the coil. Despite all this, a woman may become pregnant with the coil in place, as has happened to a number of women. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

************************************************** *******
Question:
according to Jabir radiyaahu canhu said: "we use to do azl while Quran is revealing and Prophet did not prohibit? my question is as follows
1- Is it allowed to use a condom/pill?
2- if so what is the conditions?
3- what type of niyyah do we need to have at performing either or both"Condom/Pills/azl?
4- Why the Companion doing this?

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly, what the Muslims should do is to try to have as many children as they can, because this is the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “Marry the one who is loving and fertile, for I will be proud of your great numbers before the nations.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2050; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 1805).

Having more children increases the numbers of the ummah, and increasing the numbers of the ummah is a source of its glory, as Allaah says, reminding the Children of Israel of His blessings:

“and made you more numerous in man-power”

[al-Isra’ 15:6 – interpretation of the meaning]

And Shu’ayb said to his people:

“And remember when you were but few, and He multiplied you”

[al-A’raaf 7:86 – interpretation of the meaning]

No one can deny that having a large number is a source of pride and strength for the ummah, contrary to what those pessimists think who say that large numbers causes poverty and starvation in a nation.

If the ummah increases in number, puts its trust in Allaah and believes His promises as mentioned in the aayah,

“And no moving (living) creature is there on earth but its provision is due from Allaah”

[Hood 11:6 – interpretation of the meaning], then Allaah will make things easy for them and will grant them independence of means from His bounty. Based on that, the answer to your question is as follows:

Birth control pills:

A woman should not use birth control pills, unless the following conditions are met:

1- She should need to use them, for example if she is ill and cannot cope with a pregnancy every year, or she is physically unfit, or there is some other reason that getting pregnant every year may harm her.

2- Her husband should give his permission, because the husband has the right to have children. There must also be consultation with the doctor, to find out whether these pills are harmful or not.

If these two conditions are met, there is nothing wrong with taking these pills, but that should not be on a permanent basis, because that means preventing having children.

With regard to ‘azl (coitus interruptus), or withdrawing during intercourse, the correct scholarly view is that there is nothing wrong with it, because of the hadeeth of Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him): “We used to practise ‘azl at the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed” – i.e., at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). If that action had been haraam, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have forbidden it.

But the scholars say that one should not engage in ‘azl with a free woman except with her permission, because she has the right to have children. Moreover, withdrawing without her permission diminishes her pleasure, because the woman’s pleasure can only be completed after ejaculation. So not asking her permission causes her to lose out on pleasure and on the possibility of having children. Hence we state the condition that this may only be done with her permission.

From Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen.

From Fataawa Islamiyyah, vol. 3, p. 190.

Thirdly: the reason why the Sahaabah engaged in ‘azl was because they did not want the woman – especially a slave woman – to get pregnant, so that they could continue to enjoy a physical relationship with them and the woman would still be able to do their work. Abu Dawood narrated that a man said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I have a slave woman and I engage in ‘azl with her, because I do not want her to get pregnant, but I want what men want. But the Jews say that ‘azl is a lesser form of infanticide.” He said, “The Jews are lying. If Allaah wants to create (a child) you cannot prevent that.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, Kitaab al-Nikaah, 1856; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 1903).

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

************************************************** ********

so as u can see muslims are supposed to be striving for the sake of Allah and having children people in worse situations than us are still having babies, and this comfy little part of the ummah in the west wants to indulge in the pleasure of marriage without the responsability

Kal-El

13-10-06, 01:08 PM

Just a general question, does the pill harm the woman immediately? Or does this harm come from sustained use over several years - in which case prolonged use of the pill would be haram.

Nusayba bint Ka'b

13-10-06, 01:11 PM

`asiya

13-10-06, 01:15 PM

Just a general question, does the pill harm the woman immediately? Or does this harm come from sustained use over several years - in which case prolonged use of the pill would be haram.

Birth control pills: I have heard from a number of sources that doctors say they are harmful. Even if we do not know this from the doctors, we know it from ourselves, because preventing something natural that Allaah has created and decreed for the daughters of Adam is undoubtedly harmful. Allaah is Wise, and He has only created this blood which flows at certain times for a reason. If we prevent it with these medicines, that is harmful without a doubt.

But I have heard that the matter is worse than we imagine, that they may be a means of damaging the womb, and a means of causing nervous disorders. This is something we must beware of.

shaikh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him)

Kal-El

13-10-06, 01:15 PM

"Ur Sister", can you produce several hadiths would prove your case once and for all, because I sincerely am not satisfied with it.

So far we have come to agree that contraception is haram in general, by using the "go marry and procreate" hadith. But like i've constantly emphasised, this doesn't cover every single probable scenario for a married couple in which contraception would be of consideration.

I think your argument in this case is weak because it doesnt seem to relate/refer to different scenario' - whereas as the few above you posted, they're points make sense and no hadith I have come across contradicts that.

And have you really ever answered that question? :rolleyes:

"What if a young couple do not feel psychologically ready to have a child immediately from their marriage - but intend to have children in general" (meaning probably using un-harmful method contraception for the first year or so).

And I am not advocating anything haram - I'm in the process of learning whatever or not contraception in the context im presenting, is haram.
You say yes, others say no.

Kal-El

13-10-06, 01:16 PM

Birth control pills: I have heard from a number of sources that doctors say they are harmful. Even if we do not know this from the doctors, we know it from ourselves, because preventing something natural that Allaah has created and decreed for the daughters of Adam is undoubtedly harmful. Allaah is Wise, and He has only created this blood which flows at certain times for a reason. If we prevent it with these medicines, that is harmful without a doubt.

But I have heard that the matter is worse than we imagine, that they may be a means of damaging the womb, and a means of causing nervous disorders. This is something we must beware of.

shaikh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him)

That's not what i meant.

I asked, does this harm start after a prolonged use of the pill or is it immediate? Do you know?

`asiya

13-10-06, 01:26 PM

Its not what i say akhi i have taken my opinion from the learned ulema, i beleive in one thing, having as many muslim children as i can insha Allah ta ala, raising them to be good muslims insha Allah to increase this ummah and make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam proud before the nations.

ask yourself one thing, the examples of implementing our deen that we have are who?.. muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam, the companions radiallahu anhum, and the tabiyeen. and did any of them indulge in "contraception methods with their free wives ?

they hoped that Allah ta ala will bless them with more muslim children, do u remember when the sahabbas son died while he was away and he returned to his family, and his wife told him his son was resting peacefully, as she didnt want to upset her husband after his journey, and she spent the night with him, the next morning she told him his son had died, and he went to the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam and told him what his wife had done, and muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam told them that Allah ta ala had blessed them with a child the previous night...he was overjoyed

the only case we have of azl being practised is with slave women. The islamic conditions were set down by those more knowledgeable than us mere laymen, and i trust their judgment having read all their evidence.

`asiya

13-10-06, 01:27 PM

That's not what i meant.

I asked, does this harm start after a prolonged use of the pill or is it immediate? Do you know?

yes it is immediate

undoubtedly harmful. Allaah is Wise, and He has only created this blood which flows at certain times for a reason. If we prevent it with these medicines, that is harmful without a doubt. shaikh uthaymeen

Kal-El

13-10-06, 01:29 PM

If a man does Al'azl with the consent of his wife, and they do this method of contraception for a short period of time (for the reason of not being psychologically comfortable with a child so early) and after that stop, is this haram and if it is, why is it haram?

Because all i have from you so far is that Azl is haram without the consent of the wife - and that contraception can only be used in the case where it involves life and death with the mother. And contraception can also be allowed for a short period of time if the mother already has a baby.

Keyword in all of this argument is consent.

"Consent" is irrelevant if the issue is a matter of life and death - the husband would use it regardless if the wife said no, her life is at stake - and the wife would use contraception regardless of the husband refused, her like is at stake.

All this is like, there's nothing to contradict it, yet there is nothing to support it specifically :confused: Personally, from what i have read - it seems contraception is allowed in e.g. the case i described above.

Kal-El

13-10-06, 01:30 PM

yes it is immediate

undoubtedly harmful. Allaah is Wise, and He has only created this blood which flows at certain times for a reason. If we prevent it with these medicines, that is harmful without a doubt. shaikh uthaymeen

Alright

And ofcourse, consent in this case would be irrelevant anyways as the health of the wife/mother would be of interest.

islam..~*^rules

13-10-06, 01:33 PM

That's not what i meant.

I asked, does this harm start after a prolonged use of the pill or is it immediate? Do you know?

Are there any side effects when taking the pill?
Most women who take the pill do not develop any side-effects. However, some women develop nausea (feeling sick), headaches, or sore breasts. These usually go away within days or weeks of starting the pill. If they persist, a different brand of pill may suit better.

Other side-effects are uncommon and include: tiredness, change in sex drive, skin changes, and mood changes. These are unusual and you should tell your doctor or practice nurse if you have any persisting side-effects.

Blood pressure. The pill sometimes causes a rise in blood pressure. Therefore, if you take the pill you should have your blood pressure checked about every six months. The pill may need to be stopped if your blood pressure becomes high.

For most woman the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages as the risks are small. However, a small number of women who take the pill suffer harmful side-effects. These include the following.

Thrombosis which means a blood clot in a blood vessel. This can be very serious and cause a stroke, a blood clot in the lung (pulmonary embolus), or other serious problems. The following situations increase the risk of thrombosis if you take the pill. The pill may not be advised in these circumstances.
Cancer. There is a small increased risk of breast cancer in women who use the pill. Some studies also suggest a possible link between the pill and a slight increased risk of cancer of the liver or cervix.

all info from a site but am gona ask one or 2 molvis about the above questions

`asiya

13-10-06, 02:06 PM

[QUOTE=Kal-El;1317669]

Keyword in all of this argument is consent.

"Consent" is irrelevant if the issue is a matter of life and death - the husband would use it regardless if the wife said no, her life is at stake - and the wife would use contraception regardless of the husband refused, her life is at stake.QUOTE]

like i said before, a woman may be advised by a doctor that having a baby will put her life in danger. she may choose to go through with a future pregnancy trusting in Allah ta ala, her husband may try to forbid her from having a child, but she on the other hand knows that the doctor could be wrong and Allah ta ala is capable of all things, and if she does live and have her baby, then its a blessing from Allah, on the other hand, she knows that if she dies in that state , then she will die as a shaheed so masha Allah u need the consent in all cases. anyway take which ever opinion u like just make sure its the right one to die upon.

Kal-El

13-10-06, 02:23 PM

If I ask my local scholar - would you agree on whatever his outcome is? Even if concluded that contraception is allowed?

So in other words, if i ask him, are you sure that he will say contraception, in the description i gave (the example) is haram?

Al-Irhaab

13-10-06, 03:12 PM

Is it permissible to use birth control because one is afraid to have children due to the corruption of society?

why do u copy and paste long fatwas which are impossiblt to make out... :rubeyes:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=587&ln=eng&txt=contraception

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=2803

also azl is not limited to slave girls, a jew said to the arabs that u kill your children before birth and the prophet (saw) was asked abt this and he (saw) said that they could practice azl but if allah (swt) decreed that they were to have children then nothing would stop them..

.: Anna :.

13-10-06, 09:08 PM

About the question ur sister u asked "what if the couple agreed to use contraception then she becomes pregnant and he orders her to have abortion." obviously no sister shud obey her husband in wat is haram.. but neway bc he has agreed 2 use contraception does not necessarily make the bro 2 b such a bad person like that, who would tell his wife 2 kill his own child...
we have a balance. As in the hadith which irhab has just mentioned... azl is permitted and if Allah drecrees a child 2 b conceived, we dnt have the power 2 intervene against that. So obviously as Muslims we accept it. So it is not wrong 2 use contraception and if the wife becomes pregnant, then obv u still cnt do an abortion, but u jst realise that alhamdulillah allah had another plan 4 u and he knows best, but the prophet :saw: did not outlaw contraception, he just made this point. So we should not think it is for us to go further and ban what he did not ban...

wilford

14-10-06, 05:52 AM

"As a teenage girl or young woman, you may be starting to think about what it means to be involved in a sexual relationship. There are many things that you need to think about before you decide to have sex, including whether this is the right person, the right time in your life, and how you will feel if the relationship breaks up. If you do decide to have sex, you definitely need to think about how to prevent getting pregnant and how to protect yourself from getting a Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD). Keep reading to find out what type of contraception is best for you and your partner."

"You should talk to your parents, guardian, a trusted adult, or your health care provider if you are thinking about having a sexual relationship. It is a good idea to discuss all of your choices and all of the concerns and worries you may have so you can make good decisions. This can be a very confusing time for you and it is always good to have someone to talk to."

_________________________________________

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`asiya

14-10-06, 09:06 AM

why do u copy and paste long fatwas which are impossiblt to make out... :rubeyes:
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=587&ln=eng&txt=contraception

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=2803

also azl is not limited to slave girls, a jew said to the arabs that u kill your children before birth and the prophet (saw) was asked abt this and he (saw) said that they could practice azl but if allah (swt) decreed that they were to have children then nothing would stop them..

well sis anna that was my experience that a man who believed in such things as contraception also believed that having an abotion before 120 days is permissible and just another form of "contraception" and also belived that his wife should obey him in that because he was to be obeyed and u will find people issuing fatawa today who state abortion is permissible before 120 days because the ruh has not yet been breathed into the feteous.he also beleived that it was not even his wifes right to be consulted nor did he bother to mention all this before marriage, he forced azl on her against her will.

so thats why this is so important as a topic it is extremely rare that people will consider not having children immediately insha Allah ta ala, it is the way of the muslims to begin a family upon marriage. Even i knew before Islam that muslims have large families its what we are known for masha Allah.

that hadith is also in relation to the slave women al ihraab, so bring me the hadith where azl was practiced by the shabba with free believing women please.

and mufti desai please are u serious? have u read his other fatawa? :rubeyes: why would u even go to his site steer well clear insha Allah may Allah ta ala keep us on the haq and guide us all amin. and as for the fatwa of shaikh munajid he clearly states for shariah reasons ( mentioned in the other fatwa), such as wanting to delay between giving birth to one child and then another in close sucession before the first one is weaned.

if muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam has said to marry the one who is loving and fertile for he shall be proud of the great numbers ( of the ummah) before the nations, then tell me how does contraception fit into that plan?

Shouldnt we be asking ourselves why do we not love to please muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam, and therfore Allah ta ala, more than we love to please ourselves, our plans, and our desires.

Why does everyone think they have so much time left on this earth, were we not told that "the wise man goes to sleep in the evening not expecting to live until morning, and that when one wakes in the morning he does not expect to live until the evening ".....la illaha il Allah may Allah ta ala give u all long life and let u have time to have children before u die for its one of the only things that u can leave behind after your death,

think about it death, we are all going to die, u will no longer be here, no one to pray for u or to ease your suffering in the grave, but the mercy of Allah ta ala upon you, and the prayers and good deeds ( al islam) that you taught your righteous children, and grandchildren and great grandchildren and so on insha Allah ta ala, it is one of the only things u can do to increase your deeds after your death.

Islam is a whole, every part of us is working for complete submission to Allah ta ala, nothing is more important than that not our fears, not our plans, not our university degrees, or our desires,for none of those things will bring you any benefit whatsoever in the akhira.

There is nothing more important in this earth than obeying Allah ta ala and his messenger salallahu alleyhi wa salam in increasing this ummah, and increasing the love of a woman for her husband and bringing them closer by bearing his righteous children, and loving for our sisters in Islam to marry our husbands to give him even more righteous children insha allah ta ala.

come on people lets increase the ummah and make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam proud before the nations, and please Allah ta ala with that, its more valuable than anything else on this earth...imagine being of those who may meet muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam at the fountain on jaudgement day and be allowed to drink thereof so we dont feel the heat of that terrible day that will last for 50,000 years and when some will drowning in rivers of blood, and some will be up to their necks in sweat....

.: Anna :.

14-10-06, 10:53 AM

Sister I find it a bit much when you say "from my experience men who believe in this believe in that..." It comes accross that you are referring to your ex husband?? How can you generalise so widely from just that one person? I know you had a bad experience with him but it's not necessary or beneficial to taint every other bro with the same brush. You just have to be careful of going too far to make something haraam which is not haraam. I admit it is not something which Islam encourages, so we don't need to go around telling people "instead of having kids why dnt u do this?" or whatever but equally there are valid reasons to delay children and it has been permitted to use certain methods of contraception. If someone was delaying and then they did not have a child, that is qadrullah. Do you think if they did not use the contraception that they would have had one? No... if Allah had written for them to hav a child before they die then that child would have been born regardless.

`asiya

14-10-06, 10:55 AM

no sister there are many people who follow this fatwa today, its very common amongst some brothers, not just one man and i would have preffered not to mention my ex husband in this thread thanks for that, thats pretty below the belt, and yes this is the whole point it doesnt matter if u use it or not as muhammad salalahu alleyhi wa salam said it doesnt matter whether u do it or not what allah has decreed will be even if it is a drop of semen on a rock if allah ta ala orders it to come to life then it will be. so best not to use it leave aside the grey areas, and trust in Allah.

.: Anna :.

14-10-06, 10:59 AM

oh sorry do u want me 2 edit?? jst cos u mentioned him freely here b4 i did not know there is a prob? neway i cn edit if u like

Kal-El

14-10-06, 11:25 AM

I don't understand the point of generalising all men who'd prefer to use contraception (for a short period ofcourse, and with the consent of their wives) to be men who would want an abortion.

Especially as you base that generalisation of a personal experience, added with the fact some other husbands are similar?

And the issue with Azl and "free women", is there a hadith that says if a woman is not a slave, you cannot perform Azl even with her consent? E.g. a free woman giving you her consent?

You know, this topic is very frustrating.

There seems to be hadiths that say one thing, and imply a conclusion, yet there are those which imply a different conclusion. Why is it so difficult to come to the bottom of this, and why do Muslims differ in opinion (and you can check this out on Google, all different).

No one, that believes opposite of Al-Irhaab's views, has come to manage to answer my question directly although you've approached it slightly in saying "i dont know why they wouldn't" (e.g. age perhaps? too young?) which is naive, especially as you're reasoning for that is most couples you've known have started families straight away.

What if a young Muslim couple did not feel psychologically ready for children as soon as they marry, and so they use halal-forms of contraceptions for a short period of time, as they feel they would be ready for children in the future, with the consent of both?

And one, which is more suited on a personal level..

What if the young couple are both studying full-time, and working part-time so they can support each other (mainly because they're already in full time education which they have to pay for) - there's no realistic way they can start a family, so can they use contraception until they'd have the time to raise a child?

Kal-El

14-10-06, 04:56 PM

This "harmful" aspect of the use of the Pill interests me.

From reading up on it, the effects of the Pill vary between women, with some women experiencing the effects more aggressively than others - it seems like it depends on how the individual's body can handle the Pill.

This reminds me of smoking.

Some people can handle it better than others, but persistent use of it - ultimately, regardless of how strong your system is, will cause damage and great harm.

Or am I a little premature in making such comparisons? :p

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 05:24 PM

well sis anna that was my experience that a man who believed in such things as contraception also believed that having an abotion before 120 days is permissible and just another form of "contraception" and also belived that his wife should obey him in that because he was to be obeyed and u will find people issuing fatawa today who state abortion is permissible before 120 days because the ruh has not yet been breathed into the feteous.he also beleived that it was not even his wifes right to be consulted nor did he bother to mention all this before marriage, he forced azl on her against her will.

so thats why this is so important as a topic it is extremely rare that people will consider not having children immediately insha Allah ta ala, it is the way of the muslims to begin a family upon marriage. Even i knew before Islam that muslims have large families its what we are known for masha Allah.

that hadith is also in relation to the slave women al ihraab, so bring me the hadith where azl was practiced by the shabba with free believing women please.

and mufti desai please are u serious? have u read his other fatawa? :rubeyes: why would u even go to his site steer well clear insha Allah may Allah ta ala keep us on the haq and guide us all amin. and as for the fatwa of shaikh munajid he clearly states for shariah reasons ( mentioned in the other fatwa), such as wanting to delay between giving birth to one child and then another in close sucession before the first one is weaned.

if muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam has said to marry the one who is loving and fertile for he shall be proud of the great numbers ( of the ummah) before the nations, then tell me how does contraception fit into that plan?

Shouldnt we be asking ourselves why do we not love to please muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam, and therfore Allah ta ala, more than we love to please ourselves, our plans, and our desires.

Why does everyone think they have so much time left on this earth, were we not told that "the wise man goes to sleep in the evening not expecting to live until morning, and that when one wakes in the morning he does not expect to live until the evening ".....la illaha il Allah may Allah ta ala give u all long life and let u have time to have children before u die for its one of the only things that u can leave behind after your death,

think about it death, we are all going to die, u will no longer be here, no one to pray for u or to ease your suffering in the grave, but the mercy of Allah ta ala upon you, and the prayers and good deeds ( al islam) that you taught your righteous children, and grandchildren and great grandchildren and so on insha Allah ta ala, it is one of the only things u can do to increase your deeds after your death.

Islam is a whole, every part of us is working for complete submission to Allah ta ala, nothing is more important than that not our fears, not our plans, not our university degrees, or our desires,for none of those things will bring you any benefit whatsoever in the akhira.

There is nothing more important in this earth than obeying Allah ta ala and his messenger salallahu alleyhi wa salam in increasing this ummah, and increasing the love of a woman for her husband and bringing them closer by bearing his righteous children, and loving for our sisters in Islam to marry our husbands to give him even more righteous children insha allah ta ala.

come on people lets increase the ummah and make muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam proud before the nations, and please Allah ta ala with that, its more valuable than anything else on this earth...imagine being of those who may meet muhammad salallahu alleyhi wa salam at the fountain on jaudgement day and be allowed to drink thereof so we dont feel the heat of that terrible day that will last for 50,000 years and when some will drowning in rivers of blood, and some will be up to their necks in sweat....

yes mufti ibrahim desai (ha) is weird and sheikh salih al mujannid (ha) is meaning this and blah blah blah...

read his fatawa he even said that the arabs used to practice azl so they could enjoy their wives more but u dont read and u just speak about things without knowledge

With regard to ‘azl (coitus interruptus), or withdrawing during intercourse, the correct scholarly view is that there is nothing wrong with it, because of the hadeeth of Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him): “We used to practise ‘azl at the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed” – i.e., at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). If that action had been haraam, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have forbidden it. But the scholars say that one should not engage in ‘azl with a free woman except with her permission, because she has the right to have children. Moreover, withdrawing without her permission diminishes her pleasure, because the woman’s pleasure can only be completed after ejaculation. So not asking her permission causes her to lose out on pleasure and on the possibility of having children. Hence we state the condition that this may only be done with her permission.

From Fataawa al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen.
From Fataawa Islamiyyah, vol. 3, p. 190.
Thirdly: the reason why the Sahaabah engaged in ‘azl was because they did not want the woman – especially a slave woman – to get pregnant, so that they could continue to enjoy a physical relationship with them and the woman would still be able to do their work. Abu Dawood narrated that a man said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I have a slave woman and I engage in ‘azl with her, because I do not want her to get pregnant, but I want what men want. But the Jews say that ‘azl is a lesser form of infanticide.” He said, “The Jews are lying. If Allaah wants to create (a child) you cannot prevent that.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, Kitaab al-Nikaah, 1856; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 1903).

there is unanimous agreement that azl is permitted...

the hadith is amm the hukm is not just for slave girls otherwise the prophet (saw) would have said only do this with your slave girls, but he (Saw) said the jews are lying....

anyways yes the dunya is short but that is no reason to justify forbidding that which the prophet (saw) has permitted, according to ur arguement it would be forbidden to even marry someone who cannot have kids and not marry someone else because the dunya is short and u are purposefully marrying knowing u cannot have kids... :rolleyes: logic has no place in making ahkam, we follow the quran and sunnah through the understanding or the sahaba (Ra) and our ulema, if u dont like it then do as you please the ahkam are clear azl is permitted, contraception up to a point is permitted..abortion is haram unless the life of the woman is at threat and even then some of the ulema have said it is only permitted if before a set date... but i guess u wont listen to the ulema because apparantly they have some strange fatwas whatever they are...

Kal-El

14-10-06, 05:31 PM

A general question, with the way some hadiths and verses of the Quran are worded regarding procreation, is it a strong recommendation? Or is it something that all married couples should aim for - e.g. have children if you are able to, that is the wish of Allah. Or is it, you should want to have children to increase the ummah (but, it is not demanded?)

And if it is demanded, then shouldn't all women be able to have children? But not all are, so what does that mean, the husband should avoid marrying a non-fertile woman (meaning she'll never get married)? :confused:

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 05:33 PM

5. According to 'Umar Ibn Khattab, "The Prophet (pbuh) forbade the practice of 'azl with a free woman except with her permission."

dont tell me u have something against umer al khattabs fatawa now aswell... :rubeyes:

According to Anas, "A man asked the Prophet (pbuh) about 'azl and the Prophet (pbuh) said, 'Even if you spill a seed from which a child was meant to be born on a rock, God will bring forth from that rock a child.'"

Kal-El

14-10-06, 05:35 PM

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 05:36 PM

<B>Book 008, Number 3377:
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that mention was made of 'azl in the presence of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) whereupon he said: Why do you practise it? They said: There is a man whose wife has to suckle the child, and if that person has a sexual intercourse with her (she may conceive) which he does not like, and there is another person who has a slave-girl and he has a sexual intercourse with her, but he does not like her to have conception so that she may not become Umm Walad, whereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: There is no harm if you do not do that, for that (the birth of the child) is something pre- ordained. Ibn 'Aun said: I made a mention of this hadith to Hasan, and he said: By Allah, (it seems) as if there is upbraiding in it (for 'azl)
</B>

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 05:37 PM

Is this something directed to my question?

sorry no it was at those who forbade that which the prophet (saw) has permitted

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 05:46 PM

and so on and so forth and so on and so forth

in muwatta imam malik

Book 29, Number 29.32.100:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Humayd ibn Qays al-Makki that a man called Dhafif said that Ibn Abbas was asked about coitus interruptus. He called a slave-girl of his and said, "Tell them." She was embarrassed. He said, "It is alright, and I do it myself."
Malik said, "A man does not practise coitus interruptus with a free woman unless she gives her permission. There is no harm in practising coitus interruptus with a slave-girl without her permission. Someone who has someone else's slave-girl as a wife, does not practise coitus interruptus with her unless her people give him permission."

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 05:55 PM

and i can go on and on and on and onnnnnnnnn

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=587&misc=&offset=15&sort=d

You should also follow the permissible means (of preventing pregnancy), such as withdrawal during intercourse (‘azl). The correct scholarly view is that there is nothing wrong with ‘azl even if there is no reason for it, because of the hadeeth of Jaabir: “We used to practise ‘azl at the time when the Qur’aan was being revealed.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Nikaah, 4808).
And Allaah knows best.
Fataawa al-Mar’ah al-Muslimah, 2/658
again from sheikh salih al mujannid (ha)

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=1219&ln=eng&txt=azl

anywayyyyyyyyysssss i think that is enough for now... :rolleyes:

Kal-El

14-10-06, 06:04 PM

I will still ask my local scholar to confirm this all, and also show him the above posts.

Kal-El

14-10-06, 06:35 PM

What methods of contraception then, Al-Irhaab to your understanding, are allowed?

Would e.g. a condom be permissable as it has the same function as Al-Azl?

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 06:54 PM

What methods of contraception then, Al-Irhaab to your understanding, are allowed?

Would e.g. a condom be permissable as it has the same function as Al-Azl?

contraception can be divided into two parts

firstly permanant and non permanant..

all permanant forms of contraception are forbidden

then amongst the temporary ones there are two...

the first are those that prevent fertilisation... ie the sperm from reaching the egg... these are permitted depending on a few things

those that prevent the the foetus or the fertilised egg from developing are forbidden unless the womans life comes into threat...

so amongst those things that are permitted:

condoms, widthrawl, intercourse at specific times when less chance of woman becoming pregnant, etc

those upon which there is doubt or dispute are the pill, depending on how u view the pill to work... and also stuff like hormone control and placing things inside of the body etc...

Al-Irhaab

14-10-06, 09:15 PM

no counter? :rolleyes:

`asiya

15-10-06, 06:40 AM

no muslim should personally insult or try to discredit people when you are discussing a matter, its a very dangerous quality to aquire.....and when he argues he insults.....im sure u all know the hadith.

Also never ever assume that i am speaking from some personal standpoint, I have no personal desires or opinions on this matter, nor is my Islamic opinion in anyway tarnished, or influenced by my personal experiences or preferences as insinuated previously.having gone completely blind and deaf, for several hours whilst giving birth to my last child, i should be the first to agree with your opinions because i know better than any of you how close a woman can come to death in childbirth, and i could easily accept the fatawa dished out so freely today to accomodate peoples personal desires in a world that thinks only of oneself and not the greater good . However my personal preferences are not important because i am a muslim and i hear and i obey, and i would do it all again for Allah ta ala, even if it meant loosing my life next time, I beleive and trust in almighty Allah above all things.

my Islamic opinion is based on what i have studied under scolars of Al Islam, from the daleel that has been presented to me from the Quran and sahih sunnah, this is not based on my personal opinion, it is based on shariah law and the conditions have been clearly laid out by the ulema, who have also clearly stated that contraception is not permittted without the valid shariah conditions so take your fatawa as it suits you. but never assume that i would be so foolish as to speak about any Islamic matter that i havent fully studied and understood under a scolar of Al Islam.

we will all be held accountable on yamul qiyyam for misleading people. i leave you all to your discussion .

________________________
Sufyaan ath-Thawri rahimahullah said, "We met a people who loved it when it was said to them - Fear Allah the Most High! Today you find that people only become annoyed at this"

Kal-El