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Ottoman
09-08-06, 04:11 PM
Jewish founders of modern Turkey

Subject: It's time to learn the truth about Jewish dictator Mustafa Kemal, and the current oppressive Secular/Kemalian regime in Muslim Turkey, which took over the power after the fall of Ottoman rule, and which brainwash the people of Turkey from that time on... The below article will make many things clear.

Source: Kulanu quarterly newsletter, Summer 1999, Volume 6 Number 2

(Kulanu is an organization which reflects the community of interests of individuals of varied backgrounds and religious practices dedicated to finding and assisting lost and dispersed remnants of the Jewish people)


The Turkish - Israeli Connection and Its Jewish Roots

By Joseph Hantman

One of the most significant developments in recent Middle East affairs is the close relationship which now exists between Turkey and Israel in military, political, economic and intelligence matters. This change in the power structure is usually attributable to the old Arab maxim “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Since both Turkey and Israel count Syria and Iraq as their strongest threats, the close ties between Turkey and Israel are quite logical.

However, there is good evidence of a less widely known but absolutely fascinating story behind this relationship. Turkey, which has a population almost exclusively Muslim, has a government which by law is committed to being totally secular. This goes back to modern Turkey’s founding father, Mustafa Kemal (Kemal Ataturk), 1881-1938, leader of the Young Turk Movement which took over after World War I and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

Ataturk and his followers moved rapidly to end religious domination and many religious practices in the daily life of the country. They decreed a change from the Arabic alphabet to the Roman, and they outlawed the fez and the veil. They opened schools to both boys and girls, and their main goal was to Westernize Turkey and secularize its practices. The Turkish army has been the main enforcement agent of this secular policy in times of rising fundamentalism among some groups.

Some Background Data

In the 18th and early 19th century Salonika (now Thesalonika), under Turkish rule in Greece, was the unofficial capital of Sephardic Jewry. Of the three groups in the city, the Jews were larger than the combined Greek Orthodox and Muslim population.

The Jews dominated the commerce of the city and controlled the docks of this major seaport. There were great synagogues and academies of rabbinic study. Moslem shops closed on Friday, Greek Orthodox on Sunday, and most shops and businesses were closed on Shabbat. Ladino, the beautiful mix of Spanish and Hebrew, was the lingua franca of the city and “Shabbat Shalom” was the universal Saturday greeting among all. In the late 19th and early 20th century the city declined as a result of conflict between Greek Orthodox and Moslems, and Jewish dominance of the city decreased.

Fall of the Ottoman Empire

With the fall of the Ottoman Empire after World War I and the decision at the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923 to create an independent Greek state, the decision was made to transfer populations. All Moslems in Greece had to move to Turkey and all Orthodox Greeks in Turkey had to move to Greece. In all, about 350,000 Moslems and one million Greeks were involved in the move. Jews were permitted to remain wherever they lived.

At this time a group of Moslems went to the authorities supervising the population shift and explained that they were not really Moslems but were in fact really Jews posing as Moslems. The authorities would not entertain such a claim so the group then went to the Chief Rabbi, Saul Amarillo, to verify their Jewish status. Rabbi Amarillo states, “Yes, I know who you are. You are momzarim (very loosely translated as bastards) and as such not acceptable in the Jewish community.” These people were the Doenmeh, the Turkish word for converts, and their existence had been known for over 200 years. They were called momzarim because of the bizarre sexual practices that were part of their religious rituals, which made it impossible to trace parentage and lineage. The Doenmeh were forced to leave Salonika for Turkey, which, considering the tragic fate of Salonika’s Jews during the Holocaust 20 years later, undoubtedly saved their lives.

Who Were the Doenmeh? (Dönme)

One of the best known names but least known historical figures in Jewish history is Shabbtai Zvi, the “false messiah” (1626-1687). Born in Smyrna, Turkey, of a Sephardic father and an Ashkenazi mother, he was a brilliant child and Talmudic student, and an ordained rabbi in his mid teens. He went on to study and became a master in Kabbalah and other Jewish mysticism. His oratory was captivating and he soon acquired a following. However, he exhibited odd characteristics, including periods of illumination where he was believed to be communicating with God and periods of darkness when he was wrestling with evil. Soon he began to hint that he was the Messiah. This blasphemy caused him to be expelled from a number of congregations. He took up a pilgrim’s staff and with some followers roamed the Middle East, gathering many to his messianic preaching, especially during his periods of light. In Gaza he was welcomed by Rabbi Nathan, who had for years been preaching that the arrival of the Messiah was imminent. This combination led to a great outpouring of belief in Shabbtai Zvi as the Messiah. Word spread throughout the Jewish world, from Poland, Amsterdam, Germany, London, Persia, and Turkey to Yemen. Multitudes joined his ranks – educated rabbis, illiterates, rich and poor alike were swept up in the mass hysteria.

Among his inner core, they accepted his theory that all religious restrictions were reversed. The forbidden was encouraged and the commandments of the Torah were replaced by Shabbtai’s 18 (chai) commandments. This led to feasting on fast days, sexual relations with others than one’s spouse, and many more. The high point was in 1665-66, when Shabbtai, with his followers, marched on the Sultan’s palace expecting to be greeted as the Messiah. This of course did not happen. To shorten this story, Shabbtai was given the choice “convert to Islam or die.” To the consternation of his followers, he chose conversion. Most of his followers return to their homelands where, after penitence and sometimes flagellation, they were received into the congregations. However, some hundreds of families of his inner circle considered his apostasy as part of his overall plan of reaching the depth before attaining redemption. They too converted to Islam, although for about 200 years they lived as Moslems but secretly passed on their secret quasi-Jewish Shabbatean beliefs and practices to their children. They continued learning and praying in Hebrew and Ladino. As the generations passed, the knowledge of Hebrew was reduced to reciting certain prayers and expressions by memory in a barely understood Hebrew. They were known in Turkish as Doenmeh, meaning “converts”; to the Jews they were Minim, meaning “heretics.” They referred to themselves as Ma’aminim, the “believers.” They were never really accepted by the Turks nor by the Jews.

As we get into the middle and late 1800's and education and enlightened thinking spread through parts of the region, young Doenmeh men who were dissatisfied with their status as “neither-nor” turned to secular nationalism to establish their identity. They neglected all forms of religious belonging and saw in the "Young Turk movement" their emancipation.

The Jewish Roots

In 1911 in the Hotel Kamenetz in Jerusalem, Itamar Ben Avi, a newspaperman and writer who was the son of Eleazer Ben Yehudah (credited as the main proponent of the establishment of Modern Hebrew) met with a young Turkish Army officer. After enjoying a good quantity of Arak, the officer, Col. Mustafa Kemal, turned to his drinking partner and recited the “Shema” in fluent Hebrew and indicated that he came from a Doenmeh family. They met again on a few occasions and Kemal filled in more of his background. This man was of course to become General Kemal Ataturk, founder of modern Turkey.

Remnants of Doenmeh still exist. There is an unidentifiable building known as the Jewish Mosque where Doenmeh still meet. During World War II, when Turkey was close to Germany, there were separate tax lists for different religious categories, and the “D” list was for Doenmeh. During his lifetime and continuing today, there have been whispered rumors among Islamic activists that Kemal Ataturk and other Young Turks were of Jewish origin. Publicly, he denied this and his biographers avoided the issue.

However, there is little doubt that 300 years after the death of Shabbtai Zvi, his influence and twists and turns of his Doenmeh followers provided the activist secular basis which is one of the underlying principles of modern Turkey – without which the Turkish-Israeli connection would have been most unlikely.

To bring this story up to date and possibly complete the circle, we now learn that some Doenmeh living in Turkey have made inquiry of American Jewish religious organizations about the possible re-entry of Doenmeh into today’s Jewish world.

Kurdi_Muslima
09-08-06, 05:52 PM
very interesting ;) :up:

Ottoman
09-08-06, 07:41 PM
Wait, there's more..

WHAT HAPPENNED TO MUSLIM TURKEY?

What happened to Turkey today, a country which was, not so long but until 80 years ago, the protector and the leader of the muslim world (ummah), but now being one of the most oppressor against Islam. No one can understand how the regime in Turkey changed so much unless they througly know what happened in the recent past, how and by whom the new regime called "Secular republic of Turkey" was established. Who are they in Turkey, that desecrate Islam, that ban the muslim dress code hijab which is a must for muslim woman? Who are they that glorify an enemy of Allah - Mustafa Kemal who was a stern dictator, a jew, a freemason and a British agent? Who are they that brainwash the muslims with made-up historical tales, with western ideas, and many other things that doesn't have their place in Islamic teachings? Who are they who force the muslims of Turkey to give up their islamic faith and adopt western style of living and thoughts?.. Who are they who force the muslims of Turkey to believe that the jewish dictator Mustafa Kemal was a hero; force them to adore him and follow everything that is done under his name? Who are they who punish the muslims of Turkey severely whoever dislikes and criticizes the jewish dictator Mustafa Kemal?.. The "Zulm" (oppression) on muslims in Turkey since the establishment of the secular regime is a jewish style of oppression because these are none but "secret jews"...

Noone can really understand what (and why) is going on today in Turkey unless they know a secret jewish sect called Doenmeh, who were the descendants of those jews that were expelled from Spain in the 16.th century and given shelter by the Ottoman Sultans. Some of those jews followed the 17.th century jewish false mesiah "Sabbatai Zwi" and became "Sabbatean jews", in other words "Doenmeh". One of the rituels these jews observed was: outwardly pretending muslim (and then only Turkish), but inwardly believing in jewish faith and following Sabbatai Zwi as their messiah. Even though they still live with hypocricy today, with the recent researches it's believed that there are about 1 to 1.5 million Doenmeh (Sabbatean jews) today living in Turkey. It's also known that many Doenmeh imigrated to Israel after its establishment in 1948. Also please note that, the so-called "Secular republic of Turkey" was one of the first states in the world who recognized the Zionist Israel. It's not hard to understand how this happened; the answer is simple.. The jews founded two states: Zionist Israel and Jewish Republic of Turkey. That is why the so-called secular republic has very close ties with the zionist Israel, and makes many trade, military, and political relations. That is, the taxes paid by muslims of Turkey goes to Zionist Israel. These secret jews are still running Turkey like a reserve state of Israel today.

Ottoman
19-01-07, 02:27 AM
The Political History of Turkish - Jewish Relations

The history of Turkish-Jewish relations is extensive. Many Jews emigrated to the Ottoman Empire during the Spanish Inquisition and many Sephardic Jews lived under the rule of the Ottoman Empire which ruled most of the Middle East. Many of the Jews were well educated and some were able to reach important positions in Turkish society.

Prominant Turkish Jewish Figures

Various historians such as the late Rabbi Dr. Joachim Prinz have written that Mustafa Kemal Ataturk (the "father of Modern Turkey") was of Spanish Jewish Ancestry. His ancestors fled Spain during the Spanish Inquisition. In the book Prinz writes about the Jewish community of Thessalonica (now in Greece) where Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was born. Many of the policies of Ataturk have supported the claims that he was Jewish such as his strong Anti-Islamic secularization program in Turkey, the conversion of the Turkish Alphabet from Arabic script to the Latin alphabet, and the end of the Caliphate.

Modern Turkish-Israeli Political Relations

Turkey was the first Islamic country to recognize the State of Israel. Turkey and Israel have had a unique relationship in the Middle East. Israel has been a major supplier of arms to Turkey. Their agreements include cooperation in the "domains of air, sea, land, intelligence; and the manufacturing of aircraft, armaments and missiles," and "prepares the way for mutual military visits, training and exercises, dispatch of observers to oversee military exercises, staff exchanges and military know-how."

The strong relationship between Turkey and Israel has angered the Arabs. Turkey has attempted to maintain an image of neutrality on the topic of various Arab issues such as the Palestianian-Israeli conflict and Lebanon. The Israeli Mossad also played a role in arresting the Kurdish leader, Abdullah Ocalan

Economic Cooperation between Turkey and Israel

On January 1, 2000, Turkey and Israel signed the "Turkish Israeli free trade agreement" making it the first Muslim country to sign such as an agreement with the Jewish state. Turkey and Israel signed an agreement to construct a pipeline to bring oil, natural gas, water, and electricity to Israel from Turkey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_History_of_Turkish_-Jewish_Relations

Ottoman
04-04-07, 07:26 PM
The truth about Jewish gay dictator Mustafa Kemal exposed: http://m-kemal.blogspot.com

Gay Dictator Mustafa Kemal confesses his Jewishness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_gQX4qVERg) (Watch Video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=r_gQX4qVERg

Atajew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk8pb-laqjE) (Watch Video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sk8pb-laqjE

The truth about Jewish Ataturk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzZQ2MG2fPc) (Watch Video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=dzZQ2MG2fPc

Ataturk the Jew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1T99TDuxNw) (Watch Video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=_1T99TDuxNw

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was a secret Jew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UQdBn2lyfI) (Watch Video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=5UQdBn2lyfI

Was Jewish Ataturk REALLY Gay? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxYuZDyNHj4) (Watch Video) http://youtube.com/watch?v=mxYuZDyNHj4

Ottoman
02-06-07, 05:59 PM
<center>The so-called new regime "Secular Republic of Turkey" was founded by Jews and Freemasons</center>

Very important book regarding Turkey's recent history! Please take your time and read the whole excerpt below carefully. Do NOT miss the very last paragraph!

Subject: The current secular Republic in Turkey was founded (and is still run) by Secret Jews (Doenmeh - Sabbatean Jews). The following book was written by a Jewish author. It describes how the Doenmeh (secret Jews of Turkey) movement started in the late Ottoman times, how they took over the power in Turkey and established the new regime called "Secular Republic"..

Source: "The Secret Jews", Joachim Prinz, Random House, 1973, Page: 111-122

Notice also: Leading Zionist Dr. Joachim Prinz portrays freemason dictator Mustafa Kemal as an "ardent doenmeh", i.e. a faithful secret Jew!

....

The most colorful and fantastic of these was one of the most controversial figures in all of Jewish history. He was Shabtai Zvi, born in Smyrna in 1626, a few years after the start of the Thirty Years' War. ....
....

Shabtai Zvi, playing on these hopes, announced that the Messiah would indeed come soon. ....

Then Shabtai made the decisive move. He proclaimed to the world that the expected Messiah was none other than Shabtai Zvi himself. ....
....

The reaction to this bold and unheard-of act was immediate, and it was not restricted to Smyrna. Without benefit of modern means of communication, Shabtai's declaration was broadcast, by word of mouth, around the world. The response was not entirely favorable; Shabtai's teacher, Joseph Escapa, pronounced the herem, excommunicating him from the Jewish community of Smyrna. Shabtai departed for Cairo, which, for a time, became the center of his Messianic movement.

It was in Cairo that the final organization took place, complete with finances and propaganda. Financial assistance came from Raphael Joseph Chelebi, a rich Jew, treasurer of the Turkish governor of Cairo. Without Chelebi, Shabtai's movement might have remained a local incident, but with his help and the growing enthusiastic acceptance of the Jewish masses, Shabtai was hailed as the Messiah. The green Messianic flag, the symbol of the movement, was soon seen throughout Europe and the Middle East.
....

The Messianic uproar in the Jewish world was fantastic. Wherever Shabtai appeared, he was received with such exaltation that it must have served to strengthen his own belief in himself and his mission. The passion ran particularly high among the Marranos in Amsterdam. When Shabtai came to that famous community, the people removed the holy scrolls from the synagogue and danced in the streets to the music of Spanish Jewish tunes.

Then, in the midst of this jubilation, with the sound of the music and the visions of the dancers still fresh in his memory, Shabtai made his fatal mistake. He moved on to Constantinople. Upon his arrival he was arrested by the grand vizier, who was afraid that his presence in the city would spark revolutionary upheavals among his people. Instead of leading his people on to Jerusalem, the Messiah sat in a Turkish jail.

Some people expected the movement to collapse. The humiliation of their leader - which he had not prophesied - seemed proof that his powers were not supernatural. But although some of his followers were disillusioned, the core of the movement remained faithful to him. Shabtai, declaring that prison life was unbecoming and beneath his dignity, solicited contributions from his followers. Money poured in from all over the world and was used for effectively generous bribes which permitted him to lead the life of a king in his cell. After a time he was transferred from the prison to a suite of elegantly furnished rooms. His jail became a royal court in which he lived with Sarah, who had become the female symbol of his movement as the "Messianic Bride." He received ambassadors of the movement from many countries, among them an old and learned Cabalist from Poland, Nehemiah Cohen, who had come to see for himself what kind of man and Cabalist Shabtai was. Cohen spent three days and nights with the Messiah, and came to the conclusion that Shabtai was a dangerous charlatan. Realizing that this was not merely a threat to his own people but to the whole world, since he thought Shabtai was talented and reckless enough to start a revolution, Cohen transmitted his thoughts first to the grand vizier and then to the sultan. The judgment of both of them was that Shabtai deserved to be put to death.

All this happened in 1666, which was to have been the year of Messianic redemption. Shabtai was taken to Adrianople to face the sultan, but first he met the sultan's physician, a Jew who had converted to Islam. The physician advised him to do likewise; and when Shabtai appeared before the sultan he informed the mighty ruler of his sincere desire to embrace the religion of the Prophet Mohammed and to pray to Allah instead of to the Jehovah whose name he had so solemnly, so recklessly and so effectively proclaimed only fifteen years before. The delighted sultan gave him the name of Mehmed Effendi and the honorary title of the Sultan's Doorkeeper. All thoughts of execution were apparently forgotten. Sarah and the entire entourage, blind believers in their leader's wisdom and infallibility, followed his example and also became Mohammedans. Then they all moved to Dulcingno, a seaport of what was then Montenegro (now Yugoslavia), not far from the Albanian border. There they lived as Mohammedans, but whenever possible they attended services at the local synagogue. The ambitions of the king of the Jews were forgotten, and in the hills surrounding Dulcingno, Shabtai Zvi, the Messiah of Smyrna, died at the age of fifty.

Even in death his influence did not abate. Many of his followers in Mohammedan countries converted to Islam in the belief that their master had done so only to "liberate the impure sparks inherent in Islam from their spiritual prison." In Hungary and Moravia some Jews solemnly adopted the surname of Sheps or Shoeps as proof of an unshakable belief in Shabtai. Others began to create a new set of Jewish beliefs of which they thought the master would have approved.
....

.... In December 1686, more than three hundred families converted to Islam in Salonika. Like Shabtai and other Marranos, they continued to attend Jewish services secretly and observed certain Jewish customs in their homes.

This was the origin of the most important group, numerically and historically, of Islamic Marranos. The faithful Mohemmedans call these hidden Jews 'doenmehs', the renegades. ..... Over the years the 'doenmeh' movement became firmly established in Asia Minor. In the nineteenth century the sect was estimated to have twenty thousand members. Salonika remained its main seat until that city became Greek in 1913. Although the Jewish community remained there under Greek rule, the 'doenmehs' moved to Constantinople.

In Salonika in the early days of the movement the ten commandments "of our Lord King and Messiah Shabtai Zvi" were proclaimed by the 'doenmehs'. They still form the credo of the surviving 'doenmehs' of our time.

- I believe in the one and only God.

- I believe in his Messiah, the true redeemer, our king Shabtai Zvi, descended from King David.

- I swear not to take the name of God or his Messiah in vain and not to take an oath in their name.

- I take upon myself to carry the message of the mysteries of our Messianic faith from one community to another.

- I shall assemble with my fellow believers on the sixteenth day of the month of Kislev to discuss with them the secrets of our Messianic faith. (This is the month during which Shabtai Zvi had announced his Messiahship.)

- I swear that I shall never convert anybody to the faith of the Turban, called Islam.

- Daily will I read in the Book of Psalms.

- I shall meticulously adhere to the customs of the Turks so as not to arose their suspicion. I shall not only observe the Fast of Ramadan but all the other Muslim customs which are observed in public.

- I shall not marry into a Muslim family nor maintain any intimate association with them, for they are to us an abomination and particularly their women.

- I shall circumcise my sons.

To this day, 'doenmehs' assemble for prayers in their own house of worship in Istanbul. Some of the devotions are still said in Hebrew and Aramaic, but most of them are recited in Ladino, the "Yiddish" of the Sephardic Jews. ....
....

From time to time the Turkish governors of Salonika, who received complaints about the sect from the Mohammedan clergy, tried to investigate the strange existence of the 'doenmehs'. Their clannishness, their refusal to mingle with Mohammedan families, and their marital restrictions had become a well-known fact, difficult to hide from the majority of the people among whom they had lived for many generations. Socially, they seemed impenetrable, although in their Moslem religious practices they were beyond reproach. In fact, they often seemed even more devout followers of the Prophet Mohammed and more sincere worshipers of Allah than the rest of the community. They fasted during Ramadan, and their leaders and adherents were found in large, even conspicuous numbers among the pilgrims to Mecca. It was well known that in the seventeenth century Joseph Zvi, one of the immediate followers of Shabtai Zvi and one of his inner circle, died on the way from his pilgrimage to Mecca, and the day of his death is still commemorated.

Nevertheless, there were some indications to the outside community that all was not what it seemed and that the Islamic faith of the 'doenmehs' was a little too obviously and purposefully observed. In most cases, large contributions to the governor's private purse prevented a closer investigation. However, in 1859 Husni Pasha, then governor of Salonika, investigated thoroughly and found a 'doenmeh' school system where a special brand of Islam was taught. As a result, the schools were closed. Thereafter, greater caution and secrecy were imposed by the Sabbatists, and the sect remained intact.

Another investigation, the final inquiry, took place in 1875 under Governor Nehdad. The resulting memorandum submitted to the Turkish government praised the 'doenmehs' for their industry and high moral standards. By then the 'doenmehs' had become highly respected and were an important civic factor in the community. They were bright, industrious and successful in the world of business and in the professions. Yet during the investigation no one had succeeded in attending their private prayer meetings, no one had heard their Hebrew and Ladino songs, and certainly no outsider was admitted to witness the celebration of Shabtai's birthday. The Festival of the Lamb remained the secret of all secrets.

The revolt of the Young Turks in 1908 against the authoritarian regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid began among the intellectuals of Salonika. It was from there that the demand for a constitutional regime originated. Among the leaders of the revolution which resulted in a more modern government in Turkey were Djavid Bey and Mustafa Kemal. Both were ardent 'doenmehs' (Jew). Djavid Bey became minister of finance; Mustafa Kemal became the leader of the new regime and he adopted the name of Ataturk. His opponents tried to use his 'doenmeh' background to unseat him, but without success. Too many of the Young Turks in the newly formed revolutionary Cabinet prayed to Allah, but had as their real prophet Shabtai Zvi, the Messiah of Smyrna.

to be continued..

YesilkoyBoy
02-06-07, 06:13 PM
This is an idiotic thread.

Why not blame the extinction of the dinosaurs on the Jews while you are at it?

scorpionic
02-06-07, 06:40 PM
This is an idiotic thread.

Why not blame the extinction of the dinosaurs on the Jews while you are at it?

Excellent thread.

Somewhat childish reply.

Ottoman
13-04-08, 10:36 PM
I found this video on YT very interesting: JEWISH FOUNDERS OF THE SECULAR REGIME IN TURKEY


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Spiff
13-04-08, 11:15 PM
If only Rehmat could have seen this...

Convert
13-04-08, 11:26 PM
All of this makes sense to me.

I was told by a good friend that Freemasonry is really big in Turkey.

And that to do business there, you need to be a Freemason.

Ottoman
13-04-08, 11:52 PM
If only Rehmat could have seen this...
is he not here anymore?

All of this makes sense to me.

I was told by a good friend that Freemasonry is really big in Turkey.

And that to do business there, you need to be a Freemason.yep, that's right. but many turks don't know the realities.. Mustafa Kemal himself was a Freemason too.

.

dour
14-04-08, 12:12 AM
he did, just under a different name as you well know.

Spiff
14-04-08, 09:49 AM
he did, just under a different name as you well know.No idea...

This said, the Donmeh are actually very interesting, and the Sabbatai Zevi episode is fascinating.

However, rather than relying on information from people who don't seem to like them very much, it's better to check their own secret website http://www.donmeh-west.com/

Ottoman
15-04-08, 02:57 AM
No idea...

This said, the Donmeh are actually very interesting, and the Sabbatai Zevi episode is fascinating.

However, rather than relying on information from people who don't seem to like them very much, it's better to check their own secret website http://www.donmeh-west.com/
so, you trust Jews more than Muslims?

Spiff
15-04-08, 10:36 AM
so, you trust Jews more than Muslims?I don't trust people on the basis of their religion, sex or ethnic origin.