When to take off Hijab

[sadia]

Assalamu Alaikum

When is a woman allowed to show her hair to a prospective suitor?

Can only serious proposals can see her nonHijab picture even before they meet?

Or is he allowed to see her hair even before so he can be sure of her looks and find out if he wants to pursue it further?

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

nice questions, wondering y no1 tried to answer em :scratch:

[NoLongerLost]

he cant see her hair before marriage because he is not her mahram...ONLY AFTER WHEN HE IS HER MAHRAM IS IT ALLOWED!

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

so she can only take off her niqab but not hijab right

but how it is done? when they meet for the sake of marriage how they r supose to talk n act? like keep on talkin n looking at their face while talkin so u get the expresions n understand that person or just take a 1 look at each other n decide wether u liked each other or not?
*confuzeld*

[Al Qadr]

Not specifically related to the title but similar

Question:
I was wondering is it permissible for me to mix, sit with and take off my hijab in front of my father-in-law who is kaafir? and how about my mother-in-law can i take my hijab off in front of her? can u also advice me how i should treat them?.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

There is nothing wrong with a Muslim woman mixing with her mahrams, including kaafirs who are forbidden to her in marriage (because of close ties of blood or marriage, such as the father-in-law), if there is no danger of fitnah from them. The same applies to kaafir women among her relatives or others whom she has to mix with for some reason, such as her husband’s mother. The Muslim woman should call them to Islam in ways that are better, by showing the best attitudes promoted in Islam, such as speaking and acting kindly, whilst adhering to Islamic rulings such as not being the first to greet them and not feeling love towards them in the heart.

With regard to the way she should dress in front of them, it is permissible for a Muslim woman to uncover in front of her mahrams and womenfolk as much as is customary among people of religious commitment and good manners, such as uncovering the head, neck, forearms and part of the calf.

Whether the women and mahrams are Muslims or kaafirs, there is no difference in the ruling.

But it is not permissible for a Muslim woman to wear short clothes in front of them, or thin (see-though) clothes, or tight clothes that show the shape of the ‘awrah. The scholars of the Standing Committee said:

A woman should be modest, even if no one can see her except other women, she should not uncover anything more than is customary or needs to be uncovered, such as going out in the kind of clothes that she wears when doing housework, showing the face, hands and feet and the like. That is more concealing and farther removed from any doubt or suspicion.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 17/288, 289

Shaykh Muhamamd ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen said:

With regard to her mahrams what she may uncover is the same as that which she may uncover in front of other women, so she may uncover her head, neck, feet, hands, forearms and calves, etc. But she should not make her clothes short.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 12/276, 277

See the answers to questions no, 12371, 6569 for more quotations and explanations from the scholars concerning what a woman may and may not show in front of other women and her mahrams.

Secondly:

Some scholars differentiate between Muslim women and kaafir women, and do not allow taking off the hijab in front of kaafir women. This is a less correct view, because Jewish women used to enter upon ‘Aa’ishah and others among the women of the Sahaabah, and it is not known that they wore hijab in front of them.

The scholars of the Standing Committee were asked:

Is it obligatory to wear hijab in front of kaafir women, or can we interact with them as we interact with Muslim women?

They replied:

There are two views among the scholars regarding this matter. The more correct view is that it is not obligatory, because no such thing was narrated from the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or from others among the women of the Sahaabah when they met with Jewish and idolater women in Madeenah. If that had happened it would have been transmitted as less serious matters were transmitted.

And they said:

There is no reason why a woman should not uncover her face in front of another woman, whether she is a Muslim or a kaafir, because women are only commanded to cover their faces in front of men who are not their mahrams. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“…and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their women…”

[al-Noor 24:31]

So Allaah commanded them to draw their veils over their faces in front of men, except for the mahrams mentioned in this verse, or those who are their mahrams because of breastfeeding (radaa’ah), as mentioned in other verses.

What is meant by “women” in this verse is all women, both Muslim and non-Muslim. And Allaah knows best.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 17/287, 288

And Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:

Is it permissible for a Muslim woman to uncover her hair in front of a non-Muslim woman, especially as she may describe the Muslim women to her male relatives who are not Muslim?

He replied:

This is a matter that is based on different scholarly interpretations of the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s fathers, or their sons, or their husband’s sons, or their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sister’s sons, or their women…”

[al-Noor 24:31]

The scholars differed concerning the pronoun in the word nisaa’ihinna (“their women”). Some of them said that what is meant is the gender, i.e., all women in general. And some of them said that what is meant is the type of women, i.e., believing women only. According to the first view, it is permissible for a woman to uncover her hair and face in front of non-Muslim women, but according to the second view it is not permissible. We are more inclined towards the first view because it is more sound, because among women there is no difference between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim woman. This is so long as there is no fitnah (temptation). But if there is the fear of fitnah, such as if the woman may describe her (the Muslim woman) to her male relatives, then it is essential to take precautions in that case, and the woman should not uncover any part of her body, such as the feet or hair, in front of the other woman, whether she is Muslim or non-Muslim.







http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=43480&ln=eng&txt=showing%20hair%20to%20non%20mahram

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

As Salaamu Alaikum,

There is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars about this.

I have even heard, back when I used to be around HT brothers, that there is even an opinion that the respective groom is allowed to see the woman's figure, through a slightly transparent screen of some sort. I don’t know how much truth there is in this.

Ma'aSalaama

[NoLongerLost]

^no Way That Is Ridiculous!! Off Course Not!! Duuhhh He Is Not Her Mahram So He Cant! How Stooopid!!!

[.: Anna :.]

I have also heard there is that opinion...
but i think alot of sisters haya will prevent them from agreeing 2 any such thing

[NoLongerLost]

where is the proof that a non mahram can look at the figure of a woman?!!!!????

[.: Anna :.]

its from a hadith were rasoolallah :saw: told someone to look @ the girl he wanted 2 marry i think?
i dnt know the details of that opinion... am not in it myself but i have heard others with that opinon

[Al Qadr]

As Salaamu Alaikum,

There is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars about this.

I have even heard, back when I used to be around HT brothers, that there is even an opinion that the respective groom is allowed to see the woman's figure, through a slightly transparent screen of some sort. I don’t know how much truth there is in this.

Ma'aSalaama

AstagFir'Allah, a woman should be dressed in loose modest clothes so as NOT to reveal the shape of her figure, hands and face can be seen by potential (n feet if u want) which will give an indicator of her size. But u cant actually go and say to the sister "stand behind a transparent screen so i can see ur figure and decide if i want to marry u" :wacko: :torture:

[Al-Irhaab]

As Salaamu Alaikum,

There is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars about this.

I have even heard, back when I used to be around HT brothers, that there is even an opinion that the respective groom is allowed to see the woman's figure, through a slightly transparent screen of some sort. I don’t know how much truth there is in this.

Ma'aSalaama

walaikum assalam

bro whichever ht guys told you this are liars... this 'opinion' is a lie... it is not allowed to see her figure through anything at all... and it is not permitted to see her hair at all.... ask them to bring you one scholar from amongst the four imams or the classical ulema who says that it is.... this is a fitnah that has been spread by some perverted people who wish for their desires to be maifest... imagine some guy saying to ur sis oh can u take ur hijab off i want to look.....man id :torture:

[`asiya]

so she can only take off her niqab but not hijab right

but how it is done? when they meet for the sake of marriage how they r supose to talk n act? like keep on talkin n looking at their face while talkin so u get the expresions n understand that person or just take a 1 look at each other n decide wether u liked each other or not?
*confuzeld*

youre allowed to look at each other enough to decide if u like the look of each other ( have to find your spouse attractive in some way doesnt mean they have to be clasically "beautiful" though because everyone has a different idea of what is beauty) based on a hadith of the prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam who said to a sahabba who was considering getting married and who hadnt yet seen his bride, and who was told go and look at her for there is something in the eyes ( a defect) of that tribe.

The prophet salallahu alleyhi wa salam has said we can look at what makes us marry them which is their face , which is usually forbidden for a man ( or woman) to look at, because of the ayats of the Quran which order men (and women) to lower the gaze, and the hadith of the first (accidental) glance is not something blameworthy, but a second glance ( looking back again) is not permissible. Allahu alam thats what i have understood.


(as for the opinion that a woman can remove her hijab before marriage in front of a non mahram man that is in complete opposition to what Allah ta ala has ordered us to do in the Quran which is to cover in front of non mahrams and i dont find any daleel for the opinion that it can be removed or that a woman can dress immodestly i have also heard batil people say that a man can hide in a womans bedroom with the permission of the father and spy on her naked this is how far they take this shaitanic opinion audu billah Allahu alam)

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

As Salaamu Alaikum,

There is a difference of opinion amongst the scholars about this.

I have even heard, back when I used to be around HT brothers, that there is even an opinion that the respective groom is allowed to see the woman's figure, through a slightly transparent screen of some sort. I don’t know how much truth there is in this.

Ma'aSalaama

u mean without cloths ?
who the hell on earth gona let her daughter/sister display their figure to non mehram? :torture:

what if a person doesnt like the figure? what he gona say i dont want to marry ur daughter/sister coz i didnt like her figure? he is sure gona get killed here inshaAllah :lahawla:

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

walaikum assalam

bro whichever ht guys told you this are liars... this 'opinion' is a lie... it is not allowed to see her figure through anything at all... and it is not permitted to see her hair at all.... ask them to bring you one scholar from amongst the four imams or the classical ulema who says that it is.... this is a fitnah that has been spread by some perverted people who wish for their desires to be maifest... imagine some guy saying to ur sis oh can u take ur hijab off i want to look.....man id :torture:
Jazaak Allahu khair bro, I thought it a little strange as well. But I didn't want to speak without knowing for sure.

What about the hair, I was always under the impression there was a legitimate opinion that it was allowed? But then again I got that from HT people as well.

Ma'aSalaama

[Zahyrah]

^no Way That Is Ridiculous!! Off Course Not!! Duuhhh He Is Not Her Mahram So He Cant! How Stooopid!!!

he Prophet (sas) asked if he had seen her. When the man said no, he (sas) said:

"Idh-hab fandhur ilaihaa fa innahu ahraa an yu'dama bainakum."
"Go and look at her for it is more likely to engender love between the two of you." Ahmad and others and it is sahih.


It is permisable for a sister to remove her hijab infront of a serious suiter with her mahrem present of course. Allah knows best.

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

if u refering HT to Hizbutahrir ppl which r also based in Pakistan then what iv heared from my friend whos family is knwon as HT leaders, they pray kasr salah( safri salah) all the time coz they belive the World is Moving/travling n we live in this world so every1 is travling thats y cut the salah short
Allah knows best

if they r the same than expact the unexpacted from such groups

[Umm 'Umarah]

Its a pathetic thing for a suitor to do.. do people really do this?

if a guy asked me this... i'd make sure he'd go home with a shoe engraved 'stamp of my disapproval' marked on his face..

[Zahyrah]

Its a pathetic thing for a suitor to do.. do people really do this?

if a guy asked me this... i'd make sure he'd go home with a shoe engraved 'stamp of my disapproval' marked on his face..

mashallah you mean if a brother had spoke to your father, and u were pleased with him yourself, you wouldnt remove your hijab to show him your beauty before he could be 100%sure??

what if after your marriage he doesnt find you attractive? but he didnt see you before to judge

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

he Prophet (sas) asked if he had seen her. When the man said no, he (sas) said:

"Idh-hab fandhur ilaihaa fa innahu ahraa an yu'dama bainakum."
"Go and look at her for it is more likely to engender love between the two of you." Ahmad and others and it is sahih.


It is permisable for a sister to remove her hijab infront of a serious suiter with her mahrem present of course. Allah knows best.

she aint talkin about this situation but the other pointed out by bro Al Saeed abdi like u can see the figure thru sum transparent stuff which cant b true :lahawla:

[Suliman]

The main problem about this forum, and one that angers and frustrates me so much is people seem to rant and state their own opinion and say it like it's the law of Allah. You should be very caeful, and I personally think there should be some form of mod add on where hadith and qu'ran can be inserted into the post as proof.

Seriously, I was taught that if you want to push your argument you should quote hadith and qu'ran where relivant otherwise it's hardly worth listening too as it cause more problems than anything else.

So people, basically back up your arguments.

[`asiya]

mashallah you mean if a brother had spoke to your father, and u were pleased with him yourself, you wouldnt remove your hijab to show him your beauty before he could be 100%sure??

what if after your marriage he doesnt find you attractive? but he didnt see you before to judge

ya ukhti this is in complete opposition to what Allah ta ala and his messenger have ordered, and no believing muslim man would ask a woman to do such a thing, to see the face is enough. can women also ask then to see a mans awra to make sure she will be pleased with it, based on this same interpretation of the hadith...the hair,neck,shoulders and her chest which will all become apparent if she takes off her hijab, is her awra, just as a mans awra is from the navel to the knee.

The hadith stating that he can look at what makes him marry her means he can look at her face only, remember even looking at a womans face is usually something forbidden for a man, he must lower his gaze at all times, so this hadith is simply giving the permission in the case of seeking marriage, for a man to see a womans face before marriage nothing else. think about it,Allah ta ala has forbidden a woman to display her adornmets before non mahram men, at anytime and hoping to get married to a woman does not make him anymore of a mahram than a kaffir on the street.

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

The main problem about this forum, and one that angers and frustrates me so much is people seem to rant and state their own opinion and say it like it's the law of Allah. You should be very caeful, and I personally think there should be some form of mod add on where hadith and qu'ran can be inserted into the post as proof.

Seriously, I was taught that if you want to push your argument you should quote hadith and qu'ran where relivant otherwise it's hardly worth listening too as it cause more problems than anything else.

So people, basically back up your arguments.
If we start posting Hadeeth it doesn't make it anymore correct, because we are nothing next to the scholars. We are layman, and for most of us it is dangerous to quote Hadeeth and Qur'an, because quite frankly we don't know what we are talking about. We cannot speak about Islam with just one Ayaa, from the exclusion of everything else. It is better to let the scholars do their job, and for us to follow them.

I would advise against quoting hadeeth, because if we are wrong then it is as if we have invented a lie against Allah (swt). It is more befitting for us to quote scholars, that use daleel in their arguments.

Ma'aSalaam

[Zahyrah]

The main problem about this forum, and one that angers and frustrates me so much is people seem to rant and state their own opinion and say it like it's the law of Allah. You should be very caeful, and I personally think there should be some form of mod add on where hadith and qu'ran can be inserted into the post as proof.

Seriously, I was taught that if you want to push your argument you should quote hadith and qu'ran where relivant otherwise it's hardly worth listening too as it cause more problems than anything else.

So people, basically back up your arguments.

yeh people listen to Mr been a member for like 3 years and only made 13 very good posts, suleiman!!!

[Suliman]

If we start posting Hadeeth it doesn't make it anymore correct, because we are nothing next to the scholars. We are layman, and for most of us it is dangerous to quote Hadeeth and Qur'an, because quite frankly we don't know what we are talking about. We cannot speak about Islam with just one Ayaa, from the exclusion of everything else. It is better to let the scholars do their job, and for us to follow them.

I would advise against quoting hadeeth, because if we are wrong then it is as if we have invented a lie against Allah (swt). It is more befitting for us to quote scholars, that use daleel in their arguments.

Ma'aSalaam

Sorry, I only took notice of a small part there, but from that bit, it kinda made sense.

But seriously, what you have just posted is retarded. According to you, it makes more sense to say what you want because you don't know hadith and quran..... ok so ignorance is bliss, right?

[Umm 'Umarah]

mashallah you mean if a brother had spoke to your father, and u were pleased with him yourself, you wouldnt remove your hijab to show him your beauty before he could be 100%sure??

what if after your marriage he doesnt find you attractive? but he didnt see you before to judge

I was referring to the figure business.

with regards to showing hair..i might be a little reluctant to just take my hijab off like that..but if i liked him before hand..and all was well... then..maybe.

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

Sorry, I only took notice of a small part there, but from that bit, it kinda made sense.

But seriously, what you have just posted is retarded. According to you, it makes more sense to say what you want because you don't know hadith and quran..... ok so ignorance is bliss, right?
Thank you for demonstrating exactly why it is dangerous for us to start quoting Hadeeth. Now please read the rest of what I said, as a whole and within it's correct context. Jazaak Allahu khair.

Ma'aSalaama

[Suliman]

Thank you for demonstrating exactly why it is dangerous for us to start quoting Hadeeth. Now please read the rest of what I said, as a whole and within it's correct context. Jazaak Allahu khair.

Ma'aSalaama

I give up... *bangs head repeatedly off wall*

[Ebony]

This has been discussed in GREAT detail before.

Do a search Insh'Allah :up:

To save you the trouble ( :rolleyes: ) here it is:

Taking Hijaab Off (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90527)

and for the Ladies:

When To Take Hijaab Off (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1480670#post1480670)

Happy reading!

[Na'eemah]

he cant see her hair before marriage because he is not her mahram...ONLY AFTER WHEN HE IS HER MAHRAM IS IT ALLOWED!

I agree, but a LOT (too many IMO) of brothers and sisters think that you can see a womans hair b4 marriage i.e. if you are deciding whether to marry that person or not- which is pretty stupid, because at the end of the he is a strange (non mahrem) man, she is a strange (non mahrem)woman.

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

This has been discussed in GREAT detail before.

Do a search Insh'Allah

To save you the trouble ( ) here it is:

Taking Hijaab Off

and for the Ladies:

When To Take Hijaab Off

Happy reading!Jazaak Allahu khair. I point the finger at brother Ibn-e-Muslim (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1480371&postcount=2) for reviving this old post [smile]

Ma'aSalaama

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

aight its done lets leave it at side

how about time? for how long they can see n talk to each other (in presense of mehram) and how many times? only once, twice? how do they both agree? like ok nice talking to u n u seem a fine girl to me, n she goes yeah same here u seems a good guy, done finish? off to mehram now?

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

Jazaak Allahu khair. I point the finger at brother Ibn-e-Muslim (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1480371&postcount=2) for reviving this old post [smile]

Ma'aSalaama

aight i got other question posted above, answer it if u got sum info on that :)

[.: Anna :.]

if u refering HT to Hizbutahrir ppl which r also based in Pakistan then what iv heared from my friend whos family is knwon as HT leaders, they pray kasr salah( safri salah) all the time coz they belive the World is Moving/travling n we live in this world so every1 is travling thats y cut the salah short
Allah knows best

if they r the same than expact the unexpacted from such groups

HT do not normally do that??
I know of shia people who do that "oh we are travellers in this world" etc they say. Never known HT types to do it and i dnt think their organisation tells them 2 do that...
so jst to clarify that :S

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

HT do not normally do that??
I know of shia people who do that "oh we are travellers in this world" etc they say. Never known HT types to do it and i dnt think their organisation tells them 2 do that...
so jst to clarify that :SHT don't talk about Fiqh, they only talk about politics. Some may disagree with me, but then how comes they let shia join, considering the differences are not only about Fiqh, but Aqeedah as well. So it is very easy to find all different types in HT, there is very little unifying thought apart from Khilafah.

I speak from personal experience.

Ma'aSalaama

[Ibn-e-Muslim]

HT do not normally do that??
I know of shia people who do that "oh we are travellers in this world" etc they say. Never known HT types to do it and i dnt think their organisation tells them 2 do that...
so jst to clarify that :S

sister i dont have evidence from paper or any website to validate my claim but thats all what my friend told me about his HT family n like how hard from him is to go against their beliefs in the house(he was the only 1 practicing "sunni" in that family) Allah o Alam

[.: Anna :.]

HT don't talk about Fiqh, they only talk about politics. Some may disagree with me, but then how comes they let shia join, considering the differences are not only about Fiqh, but Aqeedah as well. So it is very easy to find all different types in HT, there is very little unifying thought apart from Khilafah.

I speak from personal experience.

Ma'aSalaamaoh okay... so jst depends which person it is within the HT? I understand then. Those whom I known from HT were like practising sunni people... so i assumed that is how the organisation is

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

oh okay... so jst depends which person it is within the HT? I understand then. Those whom I known from HT were like practising sunni people... so i assumed that is how the organisation is
Don't get me wrong, they most definitely are comprised of Sunni majority. But their understanding of Fiqh is contemporary (for a choice of a better word). For instance read “The Social System in Islam.” Where they say it is permitted in Islam for a non-mahrum male and female to shake hands. Even though there are many Ahadeeth to say otherwise.

Ma'aSalaama

[.: Anna :.]

:eek: okay i did not know they allow that for shaking hands?!
very suprsing
subhanallah

[Al-Saeed Abdi]

:eek: okay i did not know they allow that for shaking hands?!
very suprsing
subhanallah
Yeah, a lot of Muslims say they are great, but there really isn't anything great about them. HT is nothing more than a social club for little children who like listening to themselves talk.

Ma'aSalaama