Nikkah - legal stance.....

[Rie_Maya]

As salaam alaikum,

I was wondering - could someone please tell me:

Is it true that now due to a change in the law that a nikkah can only take place after a legally recognised state/registry office marriage in the UK? Or is it possible to have Nikkah and then say Insha'Allah six months later have state/legally recognised marriage if that was the couple's choice?

Jazakullah

[`asiya]

as salamu alaikum, i would not advise any muslim to get married by kufr law in registry office or suchlike.there is no excuse for doing so,as in most parts of the u.k any child can be named after his father and reconised in the kufr law as such, you dont need to be married in the law to do this. sisters dont forget that it is not permissible in Islam to change your surname from that of your fathers name, which automatically happens when you marry in kufr law. should the worst happen and the marriage does not work out then brothers will find themselves being taken to kufr courts to seek a kufr divorce which means that they will award the ex-wife things like half his income, half his property etc etc. also the average cost of divorce in the u.k (payment for lawyers etc) is approximately £7,500This is a complete waste of money. A woman is entitled in Islam to be spent on during her 3 month iddah. after this there is only payment for the upkeep of her children and housing them (should they have any children together and should the children remain with their unmarried mother) that is any muslim woman needs as every muslim woman should have a man (ie: walli/father/brother/uncle or local community) protecting her rights and providing for her outside of marriage. We have sisters now using the courts of the kufar to take their husbands "to the cleaners" as they say and this is so wrong. Also on the plus side not getting married in the law means that no sister can be taken for a ride and married for a visa. there is no need for marriage in kufr law, this law means nothing to us we are muslims and Islam protects the rights of both parties fully because Allah knows best.
as salamu alaikum

[Rie_Maya]

Thanks - but legally do Muslims now HAVE to have had a legal/state marriage BEFORE they can have a Nikkah?
I know that Regents Masjid for instance require a legal marriage certficate before carrying out a NIkkah.............................is this same with all masjids now?

[`asiya]

Thanks - but legally do Muslims now HAVE to have had a legal/state marriage BEFORE they can have a Nikkah?
I know that Regents Masjid for instance require a legal marriage certficate before carrying out a NIkkah.............................is this same with all masjids now?

Point is sister we dont care what the kaffar want us to do and about their laws, if a masjid is ordering you to rule your marriage by the kaffir law then go somewhere else to get married,if you read the above then you would see that marrying in the kufr law causes you to change your name from the name of your fathers for starters i mean do people want a seat in hell gaurenteed or what?

It was narrated from Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “There is no man who knowingly calls himself after someone other than his father but he has committed kufr. Whoever claims to belong to people to whom he has no ties of blood, let him take his place in Hell.”
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3317; Muslim, 61)

(What is meant by “committed kufr” is that he has done an act of kufr, not that he is beyond the pale of Islam. )

if your marriage should end in divorce then you will be compelled to waste money on lawyers and to apply the rule of kufr in getting a marriage settlement which you are not entitled to islamically as

The Prophet said, "Allah has made it haram (forbidden) for you to be undutiful to your mothers to withhold what you should give or demand what you do not deserve, and to bury your daughters alive. And Allah has disliked that you talk too much about others, ask too many questions (in religion), or waste your property."

you dont even have to marry in a masjid, your walli can marry you in a rented hall or your new home or your parents home etc etc. I would point these facts out to any imam or masjid that is calling you to engage in any kind of act that could lead to haram as it is no small matter and may Allah guide them.

as salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

[Chained_Water]

Erm, why are you so against registering marriage?! That's just ridiculous.

If you want the state you're living in to recognise your marriage and to be afforded the legal rights of a husband/wife then you should register your marriage.

You can do it at any time you want, it doesn't have to be at the same time as the nikkah.

But you should definately do it, as it has effects on inheritence and all sorts of other financial issues.

[`asiya]

Erm, why are you so against registering marriage?! That's just ridiculous.

If you want the state you're living in to recognise your marriage and to be afforded the legal rights of a husband/wife then you should register your marriage.

You can do it at any time you want, it doesn't have to be at the same time as the nikkah.

But you should definately do it, as it has effects on inheritence and all sorts of other financial issues.

*sigh* read surah talaq then see what true legal rights you are entitled too are with Allah, and then go back to the hadith which states that you are forbidden to demand what it not yours, then look to the ayats and severe warnings in Al Quran about those who demand and take what it not rightfully theirs, and then you will see why no muslim should be demanding marriage settlements and inheritance through the kufar laws (that includes who gets custody of the children). all financial issues of marriage are covered and are extremely clear in Islamic law.Thats why women have imams and wallis to make certain all our rights will be secured during marriage. What Allah made unlawful for us will only lead us to hellfire. and that is my only concern

[Chained_Water]

In you hadn't realised the person who posted this thread lives in the UK.. and believe it or not the UK doens't implement shariah.. it has it's OWN laws and rules that you have to deal with like it or not.

For example, if someone dies, depending on the value of that persons house/wealth the govt can take a HUGE chunk of their property via inheritence tax and so on.. if you are the LEGALLY (according to their kufr law) the dead persons husband or wife, your share will not be taxed.. the laws are quite complicated actually and even if you want your inheritence to be divided islamically you will have to find a way to work around the inheritence laws that exist in the UK..

If your not registered as husband and wife.. stuff you leave your spouse may be taxed, and legally the UK will NOT recognise your spouse as your family and so they won't be treated as such.. your property won't automatically go to them etc.

It's not just inheritence but all sorts of other financial issues.. whether you like it or not UK laws will affect you, so you ought to wake up and realise you live WITHIN the system so you have to deal with it :rolleyes: ..you can't pretend it's not there, that would just be closing your eyes to whats in front of you.

It's all very well ranting and raving about shariah.. but people deal with reality too if they want to look after their family properly.

[`asiya]

as salamu alaikum I live in the uk and what i cant do is pretend the hellfire is not there, and whatever might lead me there, and whatever financial gains that were not rightfully mine maybe hanging around my neck burning me in the flames. i will sacrifice any worldly gains for the chance to enter jannah insha Allah. my eyes are wide open to whats in front of me jannah or jahannam. And in regard to sustenance Allah has ordained the sustanace of all beings so nothing to worry about there. Qadr Allah.

ranting and raving about shariah? :confused: :(

In the Name of Allâh, the Most
Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

1. By Al-'Asr (the time).

2. Verily! Man is in loss,

3. Except those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and recommend one another to the truth (i.e. order one another to perform all kinds of good deeds (Al-Ma'rûf which Allâh has ordained, and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds (Al-Munkar )which Allâh has forbidden), and recommend one another to patience" (for the sufferings, harms, and injuries which one may encounter in Allâh's Cause during preaching His religion of Islâmic Monotheism, Jihâd, etc.).

khalass

[Chained_Water]

:wswrwb:

You're totally missing the point. It's got nothing to with "financial gains that weren't rightfully" yours. :rolleyes:

So yes it is just ranting and raving basically.

If you live in the UK and don't acknowledge the state law then that's your loss because you will still be effected by it and have to live within it.

[ur_yusra]

Well men who marry more then once dnt have both marriages registered do they.. :S

[Chained_Water]

No they don't.. 'cuz it's illegal here :p

..which means in the UK the wife who isn't registered does not have the legal rights of his first wife, and were anything to happen to him, she would not be treated equally in terms of inheritance and so on.. so the husband has a responsibility to make sure he has thought about that and made proper provisions and arrangements to ensure she gets the same as the first wife etc.

Like I said the laws are quite complicated and it's all good and well saying "shariah, shariah, blah blah blah" but if you don't sort things out and KNOW the legal issues and deal with them, then it's yourself and your family members that will suffer.

[Al-Irhaab]

registered nikah does not have to be done in uk... i know im planning mine soon inshallah....

easiest way to get out of the tax law is to put ur stuff in the name of ur kids before u die... so as soon as they get off age then put the stuff in their names and then u dont have a problem... ur taxed on values above 250 000 so if u have more then that and no kids then just divide ur estate between ur family now... maybe bros etc... inheritance tax is not a problem long as u have a good accountant ;)

[ur_yusra]

No they don't.. 'cuz it's illegal here :p

..which means in the UK the wife who isn't registered does not have the legal rights of his first wife, and were anything to happen to him, she would not be treated equally in terms of inheritance and so on.. so the husband has a responsibility to make sure he has thought about that and made proper provisions and arrangements to ensure she gets the same as the first wife etc.

Like I said the laws are quite complicated and it's all good and well saying "shariah, shariah, blah blah blah" but if you don't sort things out and KNOW the legal issues and deal with them, then it's yourself and your family members that will suffer.

so why would someone choose not to go through the registration :S

[Al-Irhaab]

so why would someone choose not to go through the registration :S

oh cus first u sign that she has the legal divorce rules meaning that legally u sign that if u divorce her etc then she is entitled to that which the law entitles her to which is not islamic, so either u lie and have no intention of doing what u sign to or u agree to it... if u agree u gonna be doing sin, if u lie then u got to be ok with that...

also if ur wife trys acting up she can divorce u and take ur money .. so u got to be careful especially with women ... too many gold diggers around :rolleyes:

[neelu]

I know people in the UK who've had registered marriages and have not changed their names. It hasn't been a problem so far. I hope there are imams out there who conduct nikahs without the need for registering (I personally wouldn't want a registered marriage). You might need to pass ur imam's number to me Irhaab.

[marjan]

Shariah law can't be imposed upon individuals in the UK. There's an assumption here that man and wife will behave justly. Perhaps some aspects of 'Kufr UK law' may actually protect both parties and afford them with Shariah rights.

Also, you don't need to change your surname unless you desperately want to e.g if you're called Fatima Butt you may, for some reason, wish to change your surname.

Anyway excuse me for being dense but how did our ancestors come up with surnames? Was it based on their trades, the region of a country they're from? Did it change when their trade, place of living changed?

I know in Iran surnames were only introduced after 1930s when the Pahlavi lot moved in.

[MG]

correct me of im wrong but when u do a registry, dont they make u say al l that gora stuff, like"


"i take (enter groom's name) to be my lawfully wedded husband....." :rubeyes::rubeyes:

[Ebony]

You know, I find this registry stuff confusing since in Scotland we don't do it. You just send your marriage papers, in this case the nikah papers (which have to be in a pre-approved form, recognised by the state..usually isn't a problem to get that done), along with a few other things, (ID etc) and thats it; your marriage is registered.

But this pallava of going to the registry office and prancing about "I take X as my lawfully wedded wife/husband" is a foreign concept to me. Must be an English thing. I've only ever seen a registry office "marriage" happen in England.

[SoulAsylum]

The scots always have to be different :p

[Rie_Maya]

:salams
Jazakullah for the replies - I perhaps should have made it clearer - it is not that any couple would be anti a legally recognised mariage, just that they would not necessarily wish to do both at the same time, for their own reasons, nothing to do with anyone wishing to take advantage etc of one another.
It was purely to clarify that the two 'ceremonies' can be done at different periods of time with the Nikkah coming first, :insha: .
Thanks again

[neelu]

Besides, kufaar now have a concept of "writing your own vows" in which there should be some leeway for Muslims to get married via nikah and saying "we've written this kinda marriage our way" :P