View Full Version : Muslim Philosophers proof for the existence of God
Burhan al-Siddiqin - Proof for the existence of God, put forward by Mulla Sadra (I don't know an awful lot about his work):
http://iranianstudies.org/philosophy12.htm#The%20Existence%20of%20Existence: %20A%20Review%20of%20the%20Burhan%20al%20Siddiqin
Very good argument.
This proof rests on a philosophical understanding of Allah’s basic nature. To contemplate on Allah’s very Essence we must know what that Essence is. This poses a crucial question. ‘What is Allah’s Essence?’ Existence. Allah’s Essence is Existence. To understand the problem of Allah’s Existence and the problem of the First Cause, it is necessary to understand two Arabic terms – wujud and mawjud. Wujud is Existence Itself. Mawjud is an existent – a thing which exists. Allah is not merely a mawjud. He is not merely a thing that exists. Allah is Wujud. Allah is Existence Itself. Allah is not simply a being. Allah is Being Itself. Why is this so? Wujud is what makes every mawjud exist. Without existence, nothing can exist. Without wujud, everything is adam – nonbeing. It is that simple. To make every mawjud exist is to be Allah, the Creator, the Sustainer. Hence, Wujud is Allah and Allah is Wujud. Obviously, Existence exists and needs no outside reason or cause to exist because Existence is Its very nature.
This is indeed the core of the burhan al siddiqin – “existence exists.” Allah is Pure, Absolute, Infinite Existence. Allah is Wujud. It is then absurd to say Allah does not exist. This is to say existence does not exist. This is absurd because a thing is itself and is not other than itself. This is Aristotle’s law of identity. It is one of the three most basic rules of logic. A=A. Thus Existence exists and exists in-and-of itself. This is because Existence is its very nature. If existence did not exist, it would not be existence – it would be nonexistence. Wujud would be adam. This is absurd. Existence must exist.
arabic_courses
08-05-06, 10:25 PM
assalaamu aliakum
Firstly I would like to say to everyone that we as Muslims have no need to use the logic of the Greeks to prove Allaah as Allaah has given us enough intellectual arguments to prove His existence. As Allaah says in the Qur'aan
"Were they (ie the kuffaar) created from nothing or are they themselves their own creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather they have not sure knowledge" soorah at Toor
And Allaah also said
" Do they not look at the camels, how they are created? And at the heaven, how it is raised? And at the mountains, how they are rooted (and fixed firm)? And at the earth, how it is outspread? " soorah al Ghaashiya ie who is the One who did all of this?
And Allaah shows us that He is created everything when He said
" Does not man see that We have created him from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge). Yet behold! he (stands forth) as an open opponent. And he puts forth for Us a parable, and forgets his own creation. He says: "Who will give life to these bones after they are rotten and have become dust?" Say (O Muhammad [sal-Allâhu 'alayhi wa sallam]): "He will give life to them Who created them for the first time! And He is All-Knower of every creation!""
So we don’t need Aristotle's logic to confuse us in our religion.
As for what was said, then I think I need to explain exactly what was said and what it can lead to.
The first and most dangerous mistake that philosophy does is the talk about Allaah and His essence without knowledge. As Allaah says in the Qur'aan that it is from the most sever of sins.
" Say: "(But) the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al-Fawâhish (every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partners (in worship) with Allâh for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allâh of which you have no knowledge." "
So talking about Allaah without knowledge if VERY SERIOUS and we as Muslims should stop at what Allaah has informed us. If Allaah called Him "ar Rahmaan" then we stop there and do not go any further. We know that Allaah has affirmed that He has the attribute of Mercy, but at the same time we know that His Mercy is not like the mercy what occurs between His creations as He Himself said
"There is nothing like Him! And He is the All Seer, the All Hearer"
So this conversation of His Essence is pointless and is from the things that lead the Greek logicians astray. Greek logic is a means to understand the unknown based upon what we know, however we have not seen anything even slightly similar to Allaah (not that there is anything similar) let along Allaah so how can we come to understand Allaah's essence. To understand something you need to either need to know its reality, or something similar to it or be told about it. We all agree that we don’t know anything about the reality of Allaah, nor is there anything to compare with and nor have we been told. So it is best to just stick to what Allaah says about himself and stop there.
The issue known to those who have studied philosophy, as the 'first cause' then we as Muslims believe that Allaah never had a beginning and that He does not have an end. This is because having a beginning and having an end is an attribute of creation. This is what makes us fall under the category of 'creation' because we all were not here 50 years ago and we all will not be here in 50 years time. This is one of the major points that people forget when they think about the Creator. For example, the idea of having a son is an idea that can only work with something created. The meaning of a 'son' is that he came from his father. So his father was present before him and then he came after him by the normal means of procreation. So due to the son being like his father, necessitates that his father is created just like his son. So now we can see the problem with what the Christians have in their religion as they end up attributing to Allah that He had a beginning.
How?
Because, if Jesus was His son, then he shares with his 'Father' the same characteristics, and if Jesus had a beginning, then Allaah must also have a beginning. Like father, like son.
And if you flip the table by saying that Jesus is eternal just like his 'Father' then we simply say
"If they both did not have a beginning then they cannot be father and son as the meaning of father and son is that the father precedes the son."
Anyway, back to the post.
To understand what is being said in the post above we need to understand what the two words that is used mean.
Wajada is the base verb for those two words "mawjood" and "wujood". Wajada means "to find something". So if I wanted to say that muhammad found his mobile I would say
"Muhammad wajada mobilahu" (the hu and the end means "his" ie his mobile)
The opposite of this word is 'adam. So if I wanted to say "your presence or your absence is the same to me!" I would say
"wujooduka and 'adamuka sawaa" (the "uka" at the end means "your" and sawaa mean "the same")
So in the Arabic language, Muhammad would be called "waajid" ie the one doing the action of the verb "wajada" and the mobile would be "mawjood", ie the thing that was found. As for the name of the action then that is "wujood".
So, quick revision,
"waajid" is the one finding something.
"Wajada" is the verb itself,
"Mawjood" is the thing found, And
"wujood" is the name of the action.
Now this word when used in philosophical speech, it has a slightly different meaning.
Everything that is present or that exists can be referred to as being "mawjood" and its presence can be called "wujood". So if I wanted to say, "I was made so happy by your presence" I would say
" I was made so happy by "wujoodik" (the ik at the end means "your" ie your presence)
Now, if you have understood all of that, lets look at the following statement.
"Allah is not merely a mawjud. He is not merely a thing that exists. Allah is Wujud. Allah is Existence Itself. "
This is very wrong. What the scholars say is that Allah is "waajib ul wujood". Waajib ul wujood is that which must be. Just like we MUST pray 5 times a day, the salaah is waajib.
Waajib ul Wujood is that which does not need anything to exist, just like Allaah said in sooratul Ikhlaas
Allaahu as Samad.
As Samad is something that dose not need anything and is self-sufficient. As for us then we need Allaah.
Anyway, I needed my mum to be born and she needed her mother and then her mother and so on. Now it is impossible for there to be an infinite amount of mothers that never really started, so there needs to be something that does not have a beginning to cause us (who have a beginning) to begin. This is what is meant by waajib ul wujood. That which needs to exist to explain our existence. So as long as everything we see once did not exist shows that there had to have been something else to create us.
Now, why exactly is it wrong to say that Allaah is existence itself?
Well it is quite simple, Allaah never described himself as being "Wujood" and it gives the impression that what exists other than Allaah is Allaah. I exist, and you all exist, so does that mean that Allaah is our existence? This is what I understood from what was said
" He is not merely a thing that exists. Allah is Wujud. Allah is Existence Itself. Allah is not simply a being. Allah is Being Itself "
Then the writer of this tries to prove his idea with some logic
"Wujud is what makes every mawjud exist. Without existence, nothing can exist. Without wujud, everything is adam – nonbeing. It is that simple. To make every mawjud exist is to be Allah, the Creator, the Sustainer. Hence, Wujud is Allah and Allah is Wujud. Obviously, Existence exists and needs no outside reason or cause to exist because Existence is Its very nature."
Firstly, wujood is not what makes everything exist, as wujood is a state or a description and not a particular thing. Being tall is a description, being smart is a description, and they both don’t have a particular essence, rather it is just a description. So saying that Wujood itself did something, then that is like saying that my "height" made me lie in front of the headmaster.
So saying things like "Without existence, nothing can exist" does not make sense as it is like saying "without being tall nothing can be tall". What would have been better to say is "without Allaah, nothing other than Him can come into existence" which is true.
" Without wujud, everything is adam "
No, without Allaah being mawjood then there would be no other mawjoodaat (aat is a sign that this word is plural). As for Allaah being the actual attribute of being mawjood then that is like saying "Husain is tall therefore tall is Husain."
" Hence, Wujud is Allah and Allah is Wujud "
We as Muslims say "Allaah is mawjood, the creator of all things"
As for:
" burhan al siddiqin – “existence exists.” "
Then don’t think that it is a translation as they are two different things. Burhaan mean proof and al Siddeeqeen are those who are like abu Bakr radiyallahu anhu, ie a level above the shuhadaa but below the prophets, and it is a very high level of eemaan.
" Allah is Pure, Absolute, Infinite Existence. Allah is Wujud."
Lets stick to what Allaah said himself,
" [057:003] He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him). And He is All-Knower of every thing. "
As for Allaah being wujood then it does not make sence even in the Arabic language. What is correct is that Allaah is mawjood (present) and not wujood (presence).
"It is then absurd to say Allah does not exist. This is to say existence does not exist. This is absurd because a thing is itself and is not other than itself. "
Rather it is absurd to say that Allaah does not exist because all that we see could not have come about without something that caused it, as Allaah says in the Qur'aan,
"Were they (ie the kuffaar) created from nothing or are they themselves their own creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather they have not sure knowledge"
There is a slight secret in this verse of the Qur'aan. Allaah says to the kuffaar "were they created from nothing" ie does nothingness create anything? Is it possible for nothingness to create something?
"or are they themselves their own creators?" is it possible for something to have any effect on ANYTHING before it is brought into existence? Lets look at this verse again and ask ourselves what are the possibilities of being created?
1) Either we were created by something other than ourselves,
2) Or we were created by ourselves,
3) Or we were created by nothingness.
So Allaah refutes the last two options with leaves the first. This is how the Qur'aan proves Allaah's existence.
So a question might fall into someone's head, "who created Allaah?"
Firstly we need to seek refuge in Allaah from such questions as it only spreads doubt to those who don’t have the answer.
Secondly, the one who asked that question has clearly forgotten that creation is that which had a beginning, and had something bring it into existence. As for Allaah then He is the creator, and not that which is created (which reminds us of the previous point about the Christians and the son of god issue).
" Thus Existence exists "
One should not be confused by this statement as it has no meaning. Things exist and therefore have an existence, but as for existence itself, then it is just a word used to describe something.
So my final advise to all is that we should all learn our religion from the scholars of the past. We have a book of aqeedah which the whole ummah has agreed upon, which is aqeedah at Tahaawiyya written by a great Hanafee scholar. I think that is better than the philosophy of Aristotle.
I hope that I have not offended anyone here; I just thought that this post could cause people to have the wrong idea about Allaah as Allaah and His creation are two separate things and are not the same. I felt that this post was hinting to that belief that everything at exists is Allaah (as the post said Wujood is Allaah).
Assalaamu alaikum
Big_H99369
09-05-06, 12:13 AM
Na'am, are sources are the Quran and the Sunnah, to use anything else would lead us to none but deviancy
but i dont mean we cant read science books written by kuffar, i just mean as a source of guidance and truth.
Salman Al-Farsi
09-05-06, 01:16 PM
Mullah sadra was a shia scholastic/philosopher who developed arguments to refute the tide of free thinkers (philosophers), so his arguments are not necessarly the proofs required for basis of Aqueedah but serves as a refutation of the philosopher's arguments against existence of God.
Al-Irhaab
09-05-06, 01:50 PM
you know wot... if i had the choice... id just shoot these philophers... either that or dump them on some island somewhere with no women so they die out...
as ali (Ra) said do not contemplate on the essence of allah (swT) much as it will lead you to kufr...
Salman Al-Farsi
09-05-06, 01:54 PM
you know wot... if i had the choice... id just shoot these philophers... either that or dump them on some island somewhere with no women so they die out...
as ali (Ra) said do not contemplate on the essence of allah (swT) much as it will lead you to kufr...
which philosophers??
Al-Irhaab
09-05-06, 02:31 PM
which philosophers??
all philosophers full stop... the ones that come out with these stupid discussions as above... seriously i bet they not married thats why they take out their frustration like this :rolleyes:
Salman Al-Farsi
09-05-06, 02:44 PM
Almost all the classical scholars wrote philosophy refuting the greek and persian, and developing new parameters, some amongst them became misguided others elevated such as Imam Ghazali, shatibi, Amidi, Baqillani, ibn Taymiyah and from more contemporary Shah Waliyallah Delhwi and Dr Iqbal.
I dont think you know waht your talking about. And if you do not have anything intelligent to contribute to any dicussion.. I d rather you not say anything.
Al-Irhaab
09-05-06, 04:44 PM
Almost all the classical scholars wrote philosophy refuting the greek and persian, and developing new parameters, some amongst them became misguided others elevated such as Imam Ghazali, shatibi, Amidi, Baqillani, ibn Taymiyah and from more contemporary Shah Waliyallah Delhwi and Dr Iqbal.
I dont think you know waht your talking about. And if you do not have anything intelligent to contribute to any dicussion.. I d rather you not say anything.
oooh the was actually quite cold, ive studied philosophy and its theories, the problem that the muslims had and always have had since that time is that muslims have on the one hand integrated the philosophy into their normal believes however in essence as philosophy in its nature is based upon doubt and upon doubting everything and that philosophy is not a universal thought process but a school and a specific thought process built by the greeks it leaves muslims in a state that at any point in time the person adopting such thought can come and bring about viewpoints away from islam.
imam ghazzali (rh) did a very famous book refutation of the philsophers, ibin taymiyyah (rh) also heavily refuted philosophy and philosophers, however both their approaches were limited by power and strength. Now take for example the time of the khulafa raasidah and how they dealt with foreign ideas and methods, take the example of ali (ra) and his advice in how not to delve into questions about the essence of allah (Swt) as this will lead to kufr rather to think about the creation of allah (Swt) so that you can understand his majesty. The shaba (ra) dealt with these issues on a very simple level, for example on the issue of qadr, ali (ra) stated that the ability to raise one leg was choice and the inability to raise the other leg at the same time was qadr, ie divinely set attribute. If these issues would have been raised at the time of the sahaba (ra) they would have answered them as they answered the other questions raised, no detailed confusing discussions would have arose and if the arguement persisted then people who promoted such kufr would simple be removed from sight.
the fact of the matter is there are sciences which can be studied and promoted and sciences which cannot, the introduction of philsophers into the muslim world was one of the biggest mistakes that the muslims allowed, a quick debate and then forcing them to stop and infact to such an extent killing them would have ended the discussion and ended the confusion. therefore as i stated if i had the choice, i would not allow for such discussions to go forward rather i would allow for their refutation and then if they did not cease do desist i would have them shot...
the people you mentioned were not philsophers by the way...
other then dr iqbal who i respect but am adverse to his opinions, they were great ulema and great traditionalists, shah walliullah dehlawi did not use philosophy to engage in refutation of people instead his way of thinking was purely based upon the traditions and the ways of the people who came before him, it was his presentation of these discussions in a manner wherby not only peole who understood the deen but also the thinkers and the laymen could understand them that led to people making speaking about falsafa shah walliullah,
yes 'falsafa' is tought in madaris in the asian subcontinent, however it is tought sparingly and has nothing to do with philosophy or philsophers, rather it is terminology and flow of discussion tought in a set manner.
arabic_courses
09-05-06, 05:41 PM
Assalaamu alaikum
Jazaakallaahu khairan for that bit of info. You said 'was' has he died now?
As for his arguments, then using intellectual argumentation to prove the existence of Allaah is all good, as you can see that Allaah Himself used intellectual arguments against the mushrikeen of Quraish, however, my disagreement was on two angles.
1) If a person wants to give an intellectual argument to use against anyone then it "has" to be based on the Islamic texts as they give mankind the needed boundaries to stop the mind wondering away to kufr or shirk.
2) There is no point using an argument to convince a kaafir of the existence of Allaah if the argument in and of itself is wrong. One should weigh their speech against the correct Muslim beliefs and see if the argument holds water. Even the previous argument that Mr Sadra would have been acceptable if it agreed with Islaam, however it didn’t. It clearly gave indications of a false belief of "wihdat al wujood" which states that everything that exists is Allaah (wihda means "oneness"). This is clear when he said "Allaah is Wujood". Everything has a wujood, so if Allaah is wujood, then Allaah is everything! This is false.
As for philosophy as a whole, then philosophy as I stated earlier is a wide knowledge and it contains both truth and falsehood. However the Islamic guidelines are that whatever agrees with the Islamic belief then it is acceptable, but if it goes against it, then it is rejected. Not everything can be comprehended by using modes of logic, and whoever tries will end up either disbelieving in Islaam or have doubt about some of its tenants (like the belief in the Angels or Jinn and so on). So not all philosophers are off the tangent, so we should be careful who we deem should die. However, upon looking about our brother irhaab said, maybe we should define who is a philosopher is. As far as I know, using logical arguments is not what makes a person a philosopher, so maybe we should define who they are before we even talk about them as I feel that we all might be talking about different people. Some describe ibn Taymiyya as a philosopher and other say he wasn’t, so how can we tell the difference? I feel this should be addressed before we continue this conversation. I personally, don’t feel that studying mantiq and using it to establish logical arguments make a person a philosopher, and also I see that there is a difference between falsafa and mantiq, and Allaah knows best.
And on that issue, we should all know that death is not a simple issue and we should not rush in declaring that someone should be dead.
A Muslim can be killed for only three things.
1) irtidaad which is apostasy,
2) A married person who commits adultery,
3) and a Muslim who kills another Muslim.
So we should take this issue as a small one as it isn’t. one thing can be said though, if killing someone would benefit the muslims, then the one who does it is the muslim ruler and not any one of us.
Assalaamu alaikum
Salman Al-Farsi
09-05-06, 05:56 PM
oooh the was actually quite cold, ive studied philosophy and its theories, the problem that the muslims had and always have had since that time is that muslims have on the one hand integrated the philosophy into their normal believes however in essence as philosophy in its nature is based upon doubt and upon doubting everything and that philosophy is not a universal thought process but a school and a specific thought process built by the greeks it leaves muslims in a state that at any point in time the person adopting such thought can come and bring about viewpoints away from islam.
imam ghazzali (rh) did a very famous book refutation of the philsophers, ibin taymiyyah (rh) also heavily refuted philosophy and philosophers, however both their approaches were limited by power and strength. Now take for example the time of the khulafa raasidah and how they dealt with foreign ideas and methods, take the example of ali (ra) and his advice in how not to delve into questions about the essence of allah (Swt) as this will lead to kufr rather to think about the creation of allah (Swt) so that you can understand his majesty. The shaba (ra) dealt with these issues on a very simple level, for example on the issue of qadr, ali (ra) stated that the ability to raise one leg was choice and the inability to raise the other leg at the same time was qadr, ie divinely set attribute. If these issues would have been raised at the time of the sahaba (ra) they would have answered them as they answered the other questions raised, no detailed confusing discussions would have arose and if the arguement persisted then people who promoted such kufr would simple be removed from sight.
the fact of the matter is there are sciences which can be studied and promoted and sciences which cannot, the introduction of philsophers into the muslim world was one of the biggest mistakes that the muslims allowed, a quick debate and then forcing them to stop and infact to such an extent killing them would have ended the discussion and ended the confusion. therefore as i stated if i had the choice, i would not allow for such discussions to go forward rather i would allow for their refutation and then if they did not cease do desist i would have them shot...
the people you mentioned were not philsophers by the way...
other then dr iqbal who i respect but am adverse to his opinions, they were great ulema and great traditionalists, shah walliullah dehlawi did not use philosophy to engage in refutation of people instead his way of thinking was purely based upon the traditions and the ways of the people who came before him, it was his presentation of these discussions in a manner wherby not only peole who understood the deen but also the thinkers and the laymen could understand them that led to people making speaking about falsafa shah walliullah,
yes 'falsafa' is tought in madaris in the asian subcontinent, however it is tought sparingly and has nothing to do with philosophy or philsophers, rather it is terminology and flow of discussion tought in a set manner.
so why couldnt you just say that in the first place?
the whole purpose of learn about Islam section is that poeple are able to educate each other and share the little knowledge we have.
making silly comments only makes one look silly.. wont you agree?
Al-Irhaab
09-05-06, 07:21 PM
so why couldnt you just say that in the first place?
the whole purpose of learn about Islam section is that poeple are able to educate each other and share the little knowledge we have.
making silly comments only makes one look silly.. wont you agree?
:rolleyes:
oh many reasons partly because i was in one of them moods partly because i hate philosophers partly because i think prolonging such discussions leads to further discussions and further debates but i apologise if i was out of order and feel free to delete the posts akhi, no offence intended we all make mistakes. :inlove: may allah (Swt) forgive me for mine
Al-Irhaab
09-05-06, 07:24 PM
Assalaamu alaikum
Jazaakallaahu khairan for that bit of info. You said 'was' has he died now?
As for his arguments, then using intellectual argumentation to prove the existence of Allaah is all good, as you can see that Allaah Himself used intellectual arguments against the mushrikeen of Quraish, however, my disagreement was on two angles.
1) If a person wants to give an intellectual argument to use against anyone then it "has" to be based on the Islamic texts as they give mankind the needed boundaries to stop the mind wondering away to kufr or shirk.
2) There is no point using an argument to convince a kaafir of the existence of Allaah if the argument in and of itself is wrong. One should weigh their speech against the correct Muslim beliefs and see if the argument holds water. Even the previous argument that Mr Sadra would have been acceptable if it agreed with Islaam, however it didn’t. It clearly gave indications of a false belief of "wihdat al wujood" which states that everything that exists is Allaah (wihda means "oneness"). This is clear when he said "Allaah is Wujood". Everything has a wujood, so if Allaah is wujood, then Allaah is everything! This is false.
As for philosophy as a whole, then philosophy as I stated earlier is a wide knowledge and it contains both truth and falsehood. However the Islamic guidelines are that whatever agrees with the Islamic belief then it is acceptable, but if it goes against it, then it is rejected. Not everything can be comprehended by using modes of logic, and whoever tries will end up either disbelieving in Islaam or have doubt about some of its tenants (like the belief in the Angels or Jinn and so on). So not all philosophers are off the tangent, so we should be careful who we deem should die. However, upon looking about our brother irhaab said, maybe we should define who is a philosopher is. As far as I know, using logical arguments is not what makes a person a philosopher, so maybe we should define who they are before we even talk about them as I feel that we all might be talking about different people. Some describe ibn Taymiyya as a philosopher and other say he wasn’t, so how can we tell the difference? I feel this should be addressed before we continue this conversation. I personally, don’t feel that studying mantiq and using it to establish logical arguments make a person a philosopher, and also I see that there is a difference between falsafa and mantiq, and Allaah knows best.
And on that issue, we should all know that death is not a simple issue and we should not rush in declaring that someone should be dead.
A Muslim can be killed for only three things.
1) irtidaad which is apostasy,
2) A married person who commits adultery,
3) and a Muslim who kills another Muslim.
So we should take this issue as a small one as it isn’t. one thing can be said though, if killing someone would benefit the muslims, then the one who does it is the muslim ruler and not any one of us.
Assalaamu alaikum
bro the way we can tell whether ibn taymiyyah (rh) was a philosopher is from understanding what philosophy is, literally translated it means the study of wisdom, not wisdom in itself but wisdom, it a greek specific subject based upon different modes the most promiment being doubt and skepticism, ie doubting everying ... therefore it plays no part in islamic rule and law,
oh and when i said if i could kill them i would i meant as a ruler not in my position as its not my right to decide who lives or who doesnt but the right of a ruler and a scholar...
GothiKa
10-05-06, 09:41 AM
[051:049] And all things We have originated by pairs, that haply ye may reflect.
Look around you, and what do you see and feel?
Good-bad
War-peace
Life-death
colour-colourless
happiness-grievance
freedom-tyranny
laughter-cries
sight-blind
hot-cold
To everything, there is a pair. Keeping that in mind, let us think of our existence. We are created. Everything around us is created. If there is a pair to everything, then the entity which completes the created is the CREATOR. Therefore, Allah exists. However, HE has no beginning. The uncreated is not dependant on an entity to complete it, rather, it is the entity which is dependant on the uncreated-Allah.
Glory be to Allah!
arabic courses jazzakallah khayr for your contribution alhamdulilaah someone set the record straight, reading the openig to this thread was not only confusing but did not make sense.
where logic is concerned i noticed it isnt logic that makes people go astray, it is logic used with limited knowledge.
we as humans are finite beings, our knowledge is limited, therefore there is only so much we can know and then no MORE yet that more non the less still exists, get my drift?
if we used logic accompanied by the limited knowledge we have we will arrive inshahallah with khayr
Allah says that which means call on them with good reasoning and hikma
key word Good
if logic is a merely a system of reasoning, we need good reasoning, not just reasoning, there is a hikma in this verse alone if one looks carefully.
any reasoning is inadequate, whats khayr is GOOD reasoning, for not all have it. yet all (excluding infants and insane people) can reason
a fool can justify his foolishness using his reasoning no? so he can reason but he can not reason upon good
my point is every one has a system of reasoning but not all have a good system of reasoning
therefore the logic displayed by some is crap (couldnt find another word)
further when this logic reigns supreme whilst knowledge is absent, we will have a major problem, if this logic is presented when we have limited knowledge regarding the subject this logic is aimed at we will have a major major problem
the correct thing to do is reason upon good with the logic u have and do not trangress the limits, when Allah blesses us with more knowledge we can reason further and so on. reasoning even goodly whilst adequate knowledge is missing is one just asking for trouble.
conclution islam is reason its just GOOD REASON
when some muslims say islam says leave logic alone or it will lead us astray it gives the impression that muslims are blind followers who can not reason from where i am standing.
feebback and correction for any errors i have made wlc, the above is just my opinion based on my understanding. so be easy and teach me if i erred
fi amaanilaah
AbuMubarak
04-05-08, 12:51 PM
The Miracle of Islamic Science
By K. Ajram
The concept that the sciences are exclusively the products of Western minds remains unquestioned by most individuals. A review of any of the standard texts or encyclopedias regarding the history of science would support this view. As these books are perused, it becomes evident that the only contributors given significant mention are Europeans and/or Americans. It is hardly necessary to repeat the oft-mentioned names: Galileo, Copernicus, Kepler, Bacon, Newton, Da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin, etc. The unavoidable conclusion is that major contributions to the development of the modern sciences by other cultures is minimal. Most texts give little or no mention of the advancements made by ancient Indian, Chinese or, particularly, Muslim scholars.
Western civilization has made invaluable contributions to the development of the sciences. However, so have numerous other cultures. Unfortunately, Westerners have long been credited with discoveries made many centuries before by Islamic scholars. Thus, many of the basic sciences were invented by non-Europeans. For instance, George Sarton states that modern Western medicine did not originate from Europe and that it actually arose from the (Islamic) orient.
The data in this section concerning dates, names and topics of Western advances has been derived from three main sources: World Book Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Britannica and Isaac Asimov's 700 page book, Chronology of Science and Discovery. Supportive data for the accomplishments of Islamic scholars is derived from the miscellaneous references listed in the bibliography of this book.
What is Taught: The first mention of man in flight was by Roger Bacon, who drew a flying apparatus. Leonardo da Vinci also conceived of airborne transport and drew several prototypes.
What Should be Taught: Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years.
What is Taught: Glass mirrors were first produced in 1291 in Venice.
What Should be Taught: Glass mirrors were in use in Islamic Spain as early as the 11th century. The Venetians learned of the art of fine glass production from Syrian artisans during the 9th and 10th centuries.
What is Taught: Until the 14th century, the only type of clock available was the water clock. In 1335, a large mechanical clock was erected in Milan, Italy. This was possibly the first weight-driven clock.
What Should be Taught: A variety of mechanical clocks were produced by Spanish Muslim engineers, both large and small, and this knowledge was transmitted to Europe through Latin translations of Islamic books on mechanics. These clocks were weight-driven. Designs and illustrations of epi-cyclic and segmental gears were provided. One such clock included a mercury escapement. The latter type was directly copied by Europeans during the 15th century. In addition, during the 9th century, Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain, according to Will Durant, invented a watch-like device, which kept accurate time. The Muslims also constructed a variety of highly accurate astronomical clocks for use in their observatories.
What is Taught: in the 17th century, Galileo developed the pendulum during his teenage years. He noticed a chandelier swaying as it was being blown by the wind. As a result, he went home and invented the pendulum.
What Should be Taught: The pendulum was discovered by Ibn Yunus al-Masri during the 10th century, who was the first to study and document its oscillatory motion. Its value for use in clocks was introduced by Muslim physicists during the 15th century.
What is Taught: Movable type and the printing press was invented in the West by Johannes Gutenberg of Germany during the 15th century.
What Should be Taught: In 1454, Gutenberg developed the most sophisticated printing press of the Middle Ages. However, movable brass type was in use in Islamic Spain 100 years prior, and that is where the West's first printing devices were made.
What is Taught: Isaac Newton's 17th century study of lenses, light and prisms forms the foundation of the modern science of optics.
What Should be Taught: In the 1lth century al-Haytham determined virtually everything that Newton advanced regarding optics centuries prior and is regarded by numerous authorities as the "founder of optics." There is little doubt that Newton was influenced by him. Al-Haytham was the most quoted physicist of the Middle Ages. His works were utilized and quoted by a greater number of European scholars during the 16th and 17th centuries than those of Newton and Galileo combined.
What is Taught: Isaac Newton, during the 17th century, discovered that white light consists of various rays of colored light.
What Should be Taught: This discovery was made in its entirety by al-Haytham (1lth century) and Kamal ad-Din (14th century). Newton did make original discoveries, but this was not one of them.
What is Taught: The concept of the finite nature of matter was first introduced by Antione Lavoisier during the 18th century. He discovered that, although matter may change its form or shape, its mass always remains the same. Thus, for instance, if water is heated to steam, if salt is dissolved in water or if a piece of wood is burned to ashes, the total mass remains unchanged.
What Should be Taught: The principles of this discovery were elaborated centuries before by Islamic Persia's great scholar, al-Biruni (d. 1050). Lavoisier was a disciple of the Muslim chemists and physicists and referred to their books frequently.
What is Taught: The Greeks were the developers of trigonometry.
What Should be Taught: Trigonometry remained largely a theoretical science among the Greeks. It was developed to a level of modern perfection by Muslim scholars, although the weight of the credit must be given to al-Battani. The words describing the basic functions of this science, sine, cosine and tangent, are all derived from Arabic terms. Thus, original contributions by the Greeks in trigonometry were minimal.
What is Taught: The use of decimal fractions in mathematics was first developed by a Dutchman, Simon Stevin, in 1589. He helped advance the mathematical sciences by replacing the cumbersome fractions, for instance, 1/2, with decimal fractions, for example, 0.5.
What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians were the first to utilize decimals instead of fractions on a large scale. Al-Kashi's book, Key to Arithmetic, was written at the beginning of the 15th century and was the stimulus for the systematic application of decimals to whole numbers and fractions thereof. It is highly probably that Stevin imported the idea to Europe from al-Kashi's work.
What is Taught: The first man to utilize algebraic symbols was the French mathematician, Francois Vieta. In 1591, he wrote an algebra book describing equations with letters such as the now familiar x and y's. Asimov says that this discovery had an impact similar to the progression from Roman numerals to Arabic numbers.
What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians, the inventors of algebra, introduced the concept of using letters for unknown variables in equations as early as the 9th century CE. Through this system, they solved a variety of complex equations, including quadratic and cubic equations. They used symbols to develop and perfect the binomial theorem.
What is Taught: The difficult cubic equations (x to the third power) remained unsolved until the 16th century when Niccolo Tartaglia, an Italian mathematician, solved them.
What Should be Taught: Cubic equations as well as numerous equations of even higher degrees were solved with ease by Muslim mathematicians as early as the 10th century.
What is Taught: The concept that numbers could be less than zero, that is negative numbers, was unknown until 1545 when Geronimo Cardano introduced the idea.
What Should he Taught: Muslim mathematicians introduced negative numbers for use in a variety of arithmetic functions at least 400 years prior to Cardano.
What is Taught: In 1614, John Napier invented logarithms and logarithmic tables.
What Should be Taught: Muslim mathematicians invented logarithms and produced logarithmic tables several centuries prior. Such tables were common in the Islamic world as early as the 13th century.
What is Taught: During the 17th century Rene Descartes made the discovery that algebra could be used to solve geometrical problems. By this, he greatly advanced the science of geometry.
What Should be Taught: Mathematicians of the Islamic Empire accomplished precisely this as early as the 9th century A.D. Thabit bin Qurrah was the first to do so, and he was followed by Abu'l Wafa, whose 10th century book utilized algebra to advance geometry into an exact and simplified science.
What is Taught: Isaac Newton, during the 17th century, developed the binomial theorem, which is a crucial component for the study of algebra.
What Should be Taught: Hundreds of Muslim mathematicians utilized and perfected the binomial theorem. They initiated its use for the systematic solution of algebraic problems during the 10th century (or prior).
What is Taught: No improvement had been made in the astronomy of the ancients during the Middle Ages regarding the motion of planets until the 13th century. Then Alphonso the Wise of Castile (Middle Spain) invented the Aphonsine Tables, which were more accurate than Ptolemy's.
What Should be Taught: Muslim astronomers made numerous improvements upon Ptolemy's findings as early as the 9th century. They were the first astronomers to dispute his archaic ideas. In their critic of the Greeks, they synthesized proof that the sun is the center of the solar system and that the orbits of the earth and other planets might be elliptical. They produced hundreds of highly accurate astronomical tables and star charts. Many of their calculations are so precise that they are regarded as contemporary. The AlphonsineTables are little more than copies of works on astronomy transmitted to Europe via Islamic Spain, i.e. the Toledo Tables.
What is Taught: The English scholar Roger Bacon (d. 1292) first mentioned glass lenses for improving vision. At nearly the same time, eyeglasses could be found in use both in China and Europe.
What Should be Taught: Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented eyeglasses during the 9th century, and they were manufactured and sold throughout Spain for over two centuries. Any mention of eyeglasses by Roger Bacon was simply a regurgitation of the work of al-Haytham (d. 1039), whose research Bacon frequently referred to.
What is Taught: Gunpowder was developed in the Western world as a result of Roger Bacon's work in 1242. The first usage of gunpowder in weapons was when the Chinese fired it from bamboo shoots in attempt to frighten Mongol conquerors. They produced it by adding sulfur and charcoal to saltpeter.
What Should be Taught: The Chinese developed saltpeter for use in fireworks and knew of no tactical military use for gunpowder, nor did they invent its formula. Research by Reinuad and Fave have clearly shown that gunpowder was formulated initially by Muslim chemists. Further, these historians claim that the Muslims developed the first fire-arms. Notably, Muslim armies used grenades and other weapons in their defense of Algericus against the Franks during the 14th century. Jean Mathes indicates that the Muslim rulers had stock-piles of grenades, rifles, crude cannons, incendiary devices, sulfur bombs and pistols decades before such devices were used in Europe. The first mention of a cannon was in an Arabic text around 1300 A.D. Roger Bacon learned of the formula for gunpowder from Latin translations of Arabic books. He brought forth nothing original in this regard.
What is Taught: The compass was invented by the Chinese who may have been the first to use it for navigational purposes sometime between 1000 and 1100 A.D. The earliest reference to its use in navigation was by the Englishman, Alexander Neckam (1157-1217).
What Should be Taught: Muslim geographers and navigators learned of the magnetic needle, possibly from the Chinese, and were the first to use magnetic needles in navigation. They invented the compass and passed the knowledge of its use in navigation to the West. European navigators relied on Muslim pilots and their instruments when exploring unknown territories. Gustav Le Bon claims that the magnetic needle and compass were entirely invented by the Muslims and that the Chinese had little to do with it. Neckam, as well as the Chinese, probably learned of it from Muslim traders. It is noteworthy that the Chinese improved their navigational expertise after they began interacting with the Muslims during the 8th century.
What is Taught: The first man to classify the races was the German Johann F. Blumenbach, who divided mankind into white, yellow, brown, black and red peoples.
What Should be Taught: Muslim scholars of the 9th through 14th centuries invented the science of ethnography. A number of Muslim geographers classified the races, writing detailed explanations of their unique cultural habits and physical appearances. They wrote thousands of pages on this subject. Blumenbach's works were insignificant in comparison.
What is Taught: The science of geography was revived during the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries when the ancient works of Ptolemy were discovered. The Crusades and the Portuguese/Spanish expeditions also contributed to this reawakening. The first scientifically-based treatise on geography were produced during this period by Europe's scholars.
What Should be Taught: Muslim geographers produced untold volumes of books on the geography of Africa, Asia, India, China and the Indies during the 8th through 15th centuries. These writings included the world's first geographical encyclopedias, almanacs and road maps. Ibn Battutah's 14th century masterpieces provide a detailed view of the geography of the ancient world. The Muslim geographers of the 10th through 15th centuries far exceeded the output by Europeans regarding the geography of these regions well into the 18th century. The Crusades led to the destruction of educational institutions, their scholars and books. They brought nothing substantive regarding geography to the Western world.
What is Taught: Robert Boyle, in the 17th century, originated the science of chemistry.
What Should be Taught: A variety of Muslim chemists, including ar-Razi, al-Jabr, al-Biruni and al-Kindi, performed scientific experiments in chemistry some 700 years prior to Boyle. Durant writes that the Muslims introduced the experimental method to this science. Humboldt regards the Muslims as the founders of chemistry.
What is Taught: Leonardo da Vinci (16th century) fathered the science of geology when he noted that fossils found on mountains indicated a watery origin of the earth.
What Should be Taught: Al-Biruni (1lth century) made precisely this observation and added much to it, including a huge book on geology, hundreds of years before Da Vinci was born. Ibn Sina noted this as well (see pages 100-101). It is probable that Da Vinci first learned of this concept from Latin translations of Islamic books. He added nothing original to their findings.
What is Taught: The first mention of the geological formation of valleys was in 1756, when Nicolas Desmarest proposed that they were formed over a long periods of time by streams.
What Should be Taught: Ibn Sina and al-Biruni made precisely this discovery during the 11th century (see pages 102 and 103), fully 700 years prior to Desmarest.
What is Taught: Galileo (17th century) was the world's first great experimenter.
What Should be Taught: Al-Biruni (d. 1050) was the world's first great experimenter. He wrote over 200 books, many of which discuss his precise experiments. His literary output in the sciences amounts to some 13,000 pages, far exceeding that written by Galileo or, for that matter, Galileo and Newton combined.
What is Taught: The Italian Giovanni Morgagni is regarded as the father of pathology because he was the first to correctly describe the nature of disease.
What Should be Taught: Islam's surgeons were the first pathologists. They fully realized the nature of disease and described a variety of diseases to modern detail. Ibn Zuhr correctly described the nature of pleurisy, tuberculosis and pericarditis. Az-Zahrawi accurately documented the pathology of hydrocephalus (water on the brain) and other congenital diseases. Ibn al-Quff and Ibn an-Nafs gave perfect descriptions of the diseases of circulation. Other Muslim surgeons gave the first accurate descriptions of certain malignancies, including cancer of the stomach, bowel and esophagus. These surgeons were the originators of pathology, not Giovanni Morgagni.
What is Taught: Paul Ehrlich (19th century) is the originator of drug chemotherapy, that is the use of specific drugs to kill microbes.
What Should be Taught: Muslim physicians used a variety of specific substances to destroy microbes. They applied sulfur topically specifically to kill the scabies mite. Ar-Razi (10th century) used mercurial compounds as topical antiseptics.
What is Taught: Purified alcohol, made through distillation, was first produced by Arnau de Villanova, a Spanish alchemist, in 1300 A.D.
What Should be Taught: Numerous Muslim chemists produced medicinal-grade alcohol through distillation as early as the 10th century and manufactured on a large scale the first distillation devices for use in chemistry. They used alcohol as a solvent and antiseptic.
What is Taught: The first surgery performed under inhalation anesthesia was conducted by C.W. Long, an American, in 1845.
What Should be Taught: Six hundred years prior to Long, Islamic Spain's Az-Zahrawi and Ibn Zuhr, among other Muslim surgeons, performed hundreds of surgeries under inhalation anesthesia with the use of narcotic-soaked sponges which were placed over the face.
What is Taught: During the 16th century Paracelsus invented the use of opium extracts for anesthesia.
What Should be Taught: Muslim physicians introduced the anesthetic value of opium derivatives during the Middle Ages. Opium was originally used as an anesthetic agent by the Greeks. Paracelus was a student of Ibn Sina's works from which it is almost assured that he derived this idea.
What is Taught: Modern anesthesia was invented in the 19th century by Humphrey Davy and Horace Wells.
What Should be Taught: Modern anesthesia was discovered, mastered and perfected by Muslim anesthetists 900 years before the advent of Davy and Wells. They utilized oral as well as inhalant anesthetics.
What is Taught: The concept of quarantine was first developed in 1403. In Venice, a law was passed preventing strangers from entering the city until a certain waiting period had passed. If, by then, no sign of illness could be found, they were allowed in.
What Should be Taught: The concept of quarantine was first introduced in the 7th century A.D. by the prophet Muhammad, who wisely warned against entering or leaving a region suffering from plague. As early as the 10th century, Muslim physicians innovated the use of isolation wards for individuals suffering with communicable diseases.
What is Taught: The scientific use of antiseptics in surgery was discovered by the British surgeon Joseph Lister in 1865.
What Should be Taught: As early as the 10th century, Muslim physicians and surgeons were applying purified alcohol to wounds as an antiseptic agent. Surgeons in Islamic Spain utilized special methods for maintaining antisepsis prior to and during surgery. They also originated specific protocols for maintaining hygiene during the post-operative period. Their success rate was so high that dignitaries throughout Europe came to Cordova, Spain, to be treated at what was comparably the "Mayo Clinic" of the Middle Ages.
What is Taught: In 1545, the scientific use of surgery was advanced by the French surgeon Ambroise Pare. Prior to him, surgeons attempted to stop bleeding through the gruesome procedure of searing the wound with boiling oil. Pare stopped the use of boiling oils and began ligating arteries. He is considered the "father of rational surgery." Pare was also one of the first Europeans to condemn such grotesque "surgical" procedures as trepanning (see reference #6, pg. 110).
What Should be Taught: Islamic Spain's illustrious surgeon, az-Zahrawi (d. 1013), began ligating arteries with fine sutures over 500 years prior to Pare. He perfected the use of Catgut, that is suture made from animal intestines. Additionally, he instituted the use of cotton plus wax to plug bleeding wounds. The full details of his works were made available to Europeans through Latin translations.
Despite this, barbers and herdsmen continued be the primary individuals practicing the "art" of surgery for nearly six centuries after az-Zahrawi's death. Pare himself was a barber, albeit more skilled and conscientious than the average ones.
Included in az-Zahrawi's legacy are dozens of books. His most famous work is a 30 volume treatise on medicine and surgery. His books contain sections on preventive medicine, nutrition, cosmetics, drug therapy, surgical technique, anesthesia, pre and post-operative care as well as drawings of some 200 surgical devices, many of which he invented. The refined and scholarly az-Zahrawi must be regarded as the father and founder of rational surgery, not the uneducated Pare.
What is Taught: William Harvey, during the early 17th century, discovered that blood circulates. He was the first to correctly describe the function of the heart, arteries and veins. Rome's Galen had presented erroneous ideas regarding the circulatory system, and Harvey was the first to determine that blood is pumped throughout the body via the action of the heart and the venous valves. Therefore, he is regarded as the founder of human physiology.
What Should be Taught: In the 10th century, Islam's ar-Razi wrote an in-depth treatise on the venous system, accurately describing the function of the veins and their valves. Ibn an-Nafs and Ibn al-Quff (13th century) provided full documentation that the blood circulates and correctly described the physiology of the heart and the function of its valves 300 years before Harvey. William Harvey was a graduate of Italy's famous Padua University at a time when the majority of its curriculum was based upon Ibn Sina's and ar-Razi's textbooks.
What is Taught: The first pharmacopeia (book of medicines) was published by a German scholar in 1542. According to World Book Encyclopedia, the science of pharmacology was begun in the 1900's as an off-shoot of chemistry due to the analysis of crude plant materials. Chemists, after isolating the active ingredients from plants, realized their medicinal value.
What Should be Taught: According to the eminent scholar of Arab history, Phillip Hitti, the Muslims, not the Greeks or Europeans, wrote the first "modern" pharmacopeia. The science of pharmacology was originated by Muslim physicians during the 9th century. They developed it into a highly refined and exact science. Muslim chemists, pharmacists and physicians produced thousands of drugs and/or crude herbal extracts one thousand years prior to the supposed birth of pharmacology. During the 14th century Ibn Baytar wrote a monumental pharmacopeia listing some 1400 different drugs. Hundreds of other pharmacopeias were published during the Islamic Era. It is likely that the German work is an offshoot of that by Ibn Baytar, which was widely circulated in Europe.
What is Taught: The discovery of the scientific use of drugs in the treatment of specific diseases was made by Paracelsus, the Swiss-born physician, during the 16th century. He is also credited with being the first to use practical experience as a determining factor in the treatment of patients rather than relying exclusively on the works of the ancients.
What Should be Taught: Ar-Razi, Ibn Sina, al-Kindi, Ibn Rushd, az-Zahrawi, Ibn Zuhr, Ibn Baytar, Ibn al-Jazzar, Ibn Juljul, Ibn al-Quff, Ibn an-Nafs, al-Biruni, Ibn Sahl and hundreds of other Muslim physicians mastered the science of drug therapy for the treatment of specific symptoms and diseases. In fact, this concept was entirely their invention. The word "drug" is derived from Arabic. Their use of practical experience and careful observation was extensive.
Muslim physicians were the first to criticize ancient medical theories and practices. Ar-Razi devoted an entire book as a critique of Galen's anatomy. The works of Paracelsus are insignificant compared to the vast volumes of medical writings and original findings accomplished by the medical giants of Islam.
What is Taught: The first sound approach to the treatment of disease was made by a German, Johann Weger, in the 1500's.
What Should be Taught: Harvard's George Sarton says that modern medicine is entirely an Islamic development and that Setting the Record Straight the Muslim physicians of the 9th through 12th centuries were precise, scientific, rational and sound in their approach. Johann Weger was among thousands of Europeans physicians during the 15th through 17th centuries who were taught the medicine of ar-Razi and Ibn Sina. He contributed nothing original.
What is Taught: Medical treatment for the insane was modernized by Philippe Pinel when in 1793 he operated France's first insane asylum.
What Should be Taught: As early as the 1lth century, Islamic hospitals maintained special wards for the insane. They treated them kindly and presumed their disease was real at a time when the insane were routinely burned alive in Europe as witches and sorcerers. A curative approach was taken for mental illness and, for the first time in history, the mentally ill were treated with supportive care, drugs and psychotherapy. Every major Islamic city maintained an insane asylum where patients were treated at no charge. In fact, the Islamic system for the treatment of the insane excels in comparison to the current model, as it was more humane and was highly effective as well.
What is Taught: Kerosine was first produced by the an Englishman, Abraham Gesner, in 1853. He distilled it from asphalt.
What Should be Taught: Muslim chemists produced kerosene as a distillate from petroleum products over 1,000 years prior to Gesner (see Encyclopedia Britannica under the heading, Petroleum).
Excerpted from: Appendix B of 'The Miracle of Islamic Science' by Dr. K. Ajram, Copyright © 1992
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