if a bro saw a sister without knowing who she is, is it wrong if he approached her

[Quest]

My title says it all,

say a brother does not know a sister, nor who her family is, and he see's her for a split second walking down the street, what does he do? what should he do according to quran and sunnah?

what should the sister do if he approachs her?

ok something like this happened to me recently, its quite funny yet confusing, so ur advice with daleel will help.

a few days ago, i was walking, just minding my buisness, coming back from my aunts house, there i am carrying a big pink shoe shop bag (gift from italy that my aunt bought for me)

this handsome arab brother is walking towards me, i didnt see him at first, i only noticed after i sensed someone looking at me, as he walked past, i looked, but it was bad timing he was still looking, i got shy and continued walking faster, wishing i had my nicab on.

few mins later lol this brother is walking slowly behind me, i have this stupid smirk on my face which i just cant wipe of, finaly i managed and just put on my firm am serious look.

he says "Asalama alaykum" with out looking at me, i replied w.salam, he says something in arabic which i understood which was "do u speak arabic" i replied "Not a word" he laughed and said "great!"

i then said "i can understand the basics and respond, like how r u etc whats ur name etc"

i asked if he speaks english he says some english but he is more fluent in french and arabic.

walahi u would think communication would be limited right? but it wasnt. normally i get annoyed by broken english, mainly because the person doesnt understand me, and i have zero patience in such situations. but with him it was different, one i wasnt annoyed or irrated, 2) his english was not broken just limited, 3 it suited him

silence creeps up, this is when i get intimidated, he then breaks it and says

"sister, excuse me, but um... (pause) " he begins to touch his head then continues "are u married?"

i said "no" thinking i can not see, he does a wu huu :up: expression, lool deep down am laughing but at the same time trying real hard to keep firm.

he then after a short formal conversation asks for my number

i replied "what for?"

he then says " i want to talk to ur wali"
i said "i see, first tell me, are u a shia?"

he says no are u? i replied alhamdulilaah no, he then says something about bida and what not.

i was confused about the phone number issue, hence this topic,
there was a special awra about him, normally i say no, but there was some sort of tranquil yet sincere vibe i picked up. so i did give him my number.

my intention was to tell my uncle who is also my best friend about this issue, and arrange a contact between them, it will be easier because one my uncle speaks perfect arabic so he can do a better check up then i could.

a day or so passed.

i was chilling at some community place tutoring some sisters when the brother called.

i stepped outside to talk to him for about 5 mins, just to arrange a few things

then i couldnt help but ask

"Listen, u speak arabic french and a bit of english,i speak english and a bit of somali, do u not worry about communication?"

he says " i have no problem understanding u, so long as u dont talk very fast"

at this i wanted to laugh, put the phone away from my mouth and i started laughing.
so i said "ok, and cultural differences do not bother you?"

(i asked just to see, it doesnt bother me but bare in mind i know nothing about this brother)

he says "no, islam is our culture i see no reason for it to bother me, i hope it doesnt bother you"

i told him it doesnt, just making sure, then i said " i express myself better in english, if u dont understand it, then we will have communication blocks, i mean what if i want to tell u something, but i hesitate because i think you may not understand"

this is what cracks me up about the brother, he makes my worry feel so light and not important he laughed and said sister "i am a fast learner, i study english i will b talking like u in no time, is this really a problem for u?"

i said no, he said ok "let me meet you with your muhram or just ur muhram if u like"

i said, "all in good time, be patient for now"

conversation ended there.

ok here is the thing, i prayed istaqkara and i have no doubts, but am just a chicken when it comes to marriage...<took years to admit that.

in the past i let brothers go for stupid reasons, which all came down to my phobia about comittment

i preferred single life, i had no one to please but myself, and was not afraid to disapoint myself, but the whole issue in marriage of 2 becoming one, is frightening. i know i sound ridiculous, but i was like this from day one, in jahiliya times i never had a boyfriend because of this same feeling, and ALLAHs will of preserving my chastity for me, and now i fear being some ones wife because of this feeling.

but this brother for some reason, i see potential, his laid back like me, laughs like me, dismiss's things like me, but he is not afraid like me.

the language thing is not a big deal i just make it so. to look for another excuse to run away but this time i dont want to run. i am optimistic and can actually see his english improving. he says teach me english and i'll teach u arabic then we are even.

we were talking about interacial marriages, and i said "Is it not easier if u marry an arab sister, she will understand u better then me"

he replied " i see arab sisters all the time, if i wanted to i could have, when i saw u for the first time, something pulled me that i can not describe, it is not about arab or this, or that, its about religion, u are muslim, also appear to be good muslim, thats what counts"

i said "ok, sorry i sounded rude huh? "

he asked if my family will have issues with his race, i said i doubt it my aunt is married to an algerian, my other aunt is married to a sweedish man, my uncle is married to a danish/american. etc and my mum said bring to me any man so long as he is muslim.

i went to my brother the other day and after he showed of his silver tooth i said "hey what do u say about me marrying an arab with limited english" lool

he laughed paused then said " if u agree then he must be nice, i have no problem with it"

i was like 1 down 5 to go

my sisters i know will have something to say about it they are somali patriots but they wont force me into anything, just prolly speak there mind.

what i want to know is, was my talking to the bro wrong, it was brief like 5 mins.

i will call my uncle soon to let him no whats up, so i can get permission to get to know the brother more. right now i dont know enuff to say yes or no. so far so good.

my dad is dead so my uncle or brother who is next in charge as my wali?
i prefer my uncle his practicing me and him are close and we talk about this things infact i introduced his wife to him.

my bros are jahils still and would just laugh if i honered them and asked for permission lol

if u met a sister same way the bro met me what would u do what does islam say should be done?

peace Quest

[Emelianenko]

oooh bwoy :rolleyes:

[muslimah85]

wow subhanallah!

that was soo touching reading it :D, it was so sincere mashallah! Sister from reading your post it seems to me yourself and the brother hit it off straight away, there seems compatibility and ok maybe his english is limited but thats not a barrier at all,

I think you did the right thing of giving him your wali's number now he should get in contact and take it from there inshallah :)

[marjan]

Grandfather or brother = wali

but if your Grandfather has passed away and your bros aren't practising, then your uncle.

Just talk to your uncle and do the whole meet his family thing. You will learn more about his character from people close to him.. providing they speak English! I mean you spoke to him for a short while so you're bound to be extrapolating and filling in the blanks with positives. Also check out whether he has stay in the country or not.

[Quest]

muslima i didnt give him my walis number yet, i said i will call my uncle and pass his number to him first so my uncle knows whats going on

is that wrong?

the brother seems nice, he hates talking to me more then 5 mins, theres no reason for me to speak to him again untill my wali and him talk.

i just wana know what islam says about this.

emel lol@oh bwoy whats that suppose to mean:rolleyes:

[ur_yusra]

hmmmm sis..

its difficult.. you dnt know anything about this brother !!!

It has happened to me once and I got really offended.. I dnt knw.. like you said there was something different about him.. usually if a brother approaches me I think hes just indecent and needs to be put in his place..

but like you said.. this brother just asked for your walis number.. the key question for me would be.. did he adequately lower his gaze?? I know this sounds silly but it says alot about a brother.. ALOT...

If he did and he seems pious from the outset then you should go forward with it.. Allah (swt) is the best of planners.. get him to spk to your wali..

But it is VERY IMPORTANT to have him adequately checked out.. im sure you know this.. make sure you attain character references etc.. this is especially important since you know nothing about the brother..

[bint]

ure saying oh bwoy? im saying wah wah...

sis u are one lucky gyal.. i know what u say when u worry about the commitment issue....but uve found the one..mannnn go for it..he sounds nyc..but the only thing i worry about is that arabs tend to stare alot...i dunno if he does..i sure wudnt want my hubby to look at any mariam or fatima..:rolleyes:

but sis..go for it...what wud i do? id b damn right scared..if it was true love..then..id ask for guidance from my molana.thats it really..and id ask him to approach my wali.

[Quest]

Grandfather or brother = wali

but if bros aren't practising then your uncle.


phew thanks, thats what i thought

[Nawar]

Woah took me ages to read that........lol subhanallah

hmmm.....I dont have daleel, inshallah will try and get some, Im sure someone will inshallah, but I can give you my opinion etc...

I wouldnt acknowledge a bro on the street. Sorry, I know people say oh you should return salaam, but I dont because my experiences have only been perverse man who only require a 'walaikum salaam' to start them off on some next conversation. If they ask me if Im married, I say yes. ahem..well you know!!!! gets rid of them pronto!! and I would never give them my number or consider them for marriage.....

Ok Im telling you all this becuase I dont trust the average person on the street sis, not in the slightest. But the situation has now progressed with you, you have to BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS is what I would say, you still know nothing about him, his background etc etc... please just be cautious and take this to your wali (uncle I think) as soon as possible if you think he may be suitable. This is the best thing because you just met him on the street, and you really need to find out more about him.

Talking on the phone is not encouraged as far as I know, it only leads to fitna, and you may become more and more attached to this person, still knowing nothing about him???? emotional attachment is the worst, because rational thinking goes out the window...he should get the message that you do not wish to talk to him, and you want to take this to your wali, dont talk to him over the phone inshallah.

So basically, CAUTION + WALI :up:

[Quest]

Sister from reading your post it seems to me yourself and the brother hit it off straight away, there seems compatibility and ok maybe his english is limited but thats not a barrier at all,
:)

lol u can say that, he didnt feel like a stranger for some reason we are both laid back and are not afraid to laugh at our selfs. it was akward at first then a joke broke the barrier, i spoke he went quiet with a smirk on his face i said "lol u didnt understand a word i said huh"

he replied "did i say that" lool i wanted to laugh more. this language thing which normally causes folks to drift away is slowly bringing us together, make dua that he learns full english fast hehehe am hopeless with arabic!!

[Emelianenko]

lol u can say that, he didnt feel like a stranger for some reason we are both laid back and are not afraid to laugh at our selfs. it was akward at first then a joke broke the barrier, i spoke he went quiet with a smirk on his face i said "lol u didnt understand a word i said huh"

he replied "did i say that" lool i wanted to laugh more. this language thing which normally causes folks to drift away is slowly bringing us together, make dua that he learns full english fast hehehe am hopeless with arabic!! Sis make him spk to ur wali. Break all this other ringing and txting if their is anyfing like tht going on. Once ur wali knows..then u can discuss whaeva u want wid em infront of third party. If ur wali doesnt kno yet and u continue ringing and talking then soon an attachment may grow and this is how shaytaan destroys us.

[Quest]

Woah took me ages to read that........lol subhanallah

hmmm.....I dont have daleel, inshallah will try and get some, Im sure someone will inshallah, but I can give you my opinion etc...

I wouldnt acknowledge a bro on the street. Sorry, I know people say oh you should return salaam, but I dont because my experiences have only been perverse man who only require a 'walaikum salaam' to start them off on some next conversation. If they ask me if Im married, I say yes. ahem..well you know!!!! gets rid of them pronto!! and I would never give them my number or consider them for marriage.....

Ok Im telling you all this becuase I dont trust the average person on the street sis, not in the slightest. But the situation has now progressed with you, you have to BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS is what I would say, you still know nothing about him, his background etc etc... please just be cautious and take this to your wali (uncle I think) as soon as possible if you think he may be suitable. This is the best thing because you just met him on the street, and you really need to find out more about him.

Talking on the phone is not encouraged as far as I know, it only leads to fitna, and you may become more and more attached to this person, still knowing nothing about him???? emotional attachment is the worst, because rational thinking goes out the window...he should get the message that you do not wish to talk to him, and you want to take this to your wali, dont talk to him over the phone inshallah.

So basically, CAUTION + WALI :up:

well said, i know exactly what u are talking about, before him i never acknowledged a brother on the street, we have a word for them in somali its called shahariyaal.

basicaly womanisers, they dont care whether u have hijab nicab what ever. so i understand, even with this brother, i had a smirk on my face thinking oh here we go again! but it was different, its hard to explain but i got a sincere gut feeling vibe, so i thought be optimistic, thats why i asked what he wanted my number for, usually they say to see u, he didnt.

as for saying ur married loool nawar thats an easy way out but its lying, i wish i could say that to get rid of dudes but i feel to guilty.
i end up saying my signiture mark line

"i do not have that niyah for u sorry" thats harsh but straight forward lol

thanks for ur advice sister, my friend said similar thing caution and wali. she said not to speak to him again untill my wali is involved and if something comes up and i have to she said limit the conversation

[muslimah85]

lol u can say that, he didnt feel like a stranger for some reason we are both laid back and are not afraid to laugh at our selfs. it was akward at first then a joke broke the barrier, i spoke he went quiet with a smirk on his face i said "lol u didnt understand a word i said huh"

he replied "did i say that" lool i wanted to laugh more. this language thing which normally causes folks to drift away is slowly bringing us together, make dua that he learns full english fast hehehe am hopeless with arabic!!
inshallak :D keep you in my duas :love:

[Quest]

Sis make him spk to ur wali. Break all this other ringing and txting if their is anyfing like tht going on. Once ur wali knows..then u can discuss whaeva u want wid em infront of third party. If ur wali doesnt kno yet and u continue ringing and talking then soon an attachment may grow and this is how shaytaan destroys us.


i dont ring, but i get what u mean, i will take ur advice, no we dont text, we had one conversation via phone and that was for 5 mins or less. still same thing, i to dont want to get attached though its pretty difficult.

thanks for ur advice will send my uncle an email inshahallah

[Emelianenko]

i dont ring, but i get what u mean, i will take ur advice, no we dont text, we had one conversation via phone and that was for 5 mins or less. still same thing, i to dont want to get attached though its pretty difficult.

thanks for ur advice will send my uncle an email inshahallah
:up: aye aye u do tht inshaAllah. :)

[Quest]

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem
AsSalamu Alaikum WaRahmatullahi WaBarakatuhu To My Dear Muslim Brothers and Sisters in Islam

A Majority of Muslim Brothers and Sisters are Looking for Marriage These Days. Now Lets Say That the Brother Had No Contacts or Links to Someone Who New a Sister, Then Obviously He Would Approach You and Speak of His Reason in Doing So. -Masha'Allahu Ta'alaa- The Brother who Approached You Is Indeed Strong and Brave -Smiles-

Now, The Only Way For You To Get to Know More About the Brother is Obviously By Getting Your Wali Involved. Let Your Wali Find Out More About Him and Question Him. And Then Go Ahead and Make Salaatul Istikaara.

For a Woman to Speak to Man [Non-Mehram] VIA Phone Will Indeed Be a Grave Sin. Ikhtilaat Will Indeed Be Created and Feelings and Emotions Will Kick In and the Niyaa of Marriage Will Be Terminated From Your Hearts, By Shaytaan Playing His Usual Tricks.

So Be Careful and Get Your Wali Involoved Khore Quest.

WaSalamu Alaikum WaRahmatullahi WaBarakatuhu To My Dear Muslim Brothers and Sisters in Islam

thanks for understanding, ok uktii will take heed inshahallah
jazzakallah khayr

[Nawar]

well said, i know exactly what u are talking about, before him i never acknowledged a brother on the street, we have a word for them in somali its called shahariyaal.

basicaly womanisers, they dont care whether u have hijab nicab what ever. so i understand, even with this brother, i had a smirk on my face thinking oh here we go again! but it was different, its hard to explain but i got a sincere gut feeling vibe, so i thought be optimistic, thats why i asked what he wanted my number for, usually they say to see u, he didnt.

as for saying ur married loool nawar thats an easy way out but its lying, i wish i could say that to get rid of dudes but i feel to guilty.
i end up saying my signiture mark line

"i do not have that niyah for u sorry" thats harsh but straight forward lol

thanks for ur advice sister, my friend said similar thing caution and wali. she said not to speak to him again untill my wali is involved and if something comes up and i have to she said limit the conversation


Yeh I know, I shouldnt lie :embar: ....astagfirullah...ehmmm :embar:

but ok, yep, because your my sister in Islam and I want the best for you inshallah, definately the best thing to do is.....

WALI + LOADS OF CAUTION + NO PHONE CALLS :up:

Inshallah everything will work out for the best if you go about it the right way inshallah.

[Quest]

thats true nawar i always wondered why some sisters throw a rave for weddings then wonder why their marriage hits the rocks after a while, its because they didnt go about it the right way.

order can not come from dis-order. a smart person learns from his her own mistakes but the wise learn the mistakes of others:up: i think thats how the saying went

peace or should i say BEACE arab somali style looool

[Emelianenko]

See the reason why some marriages, where people do all the talking and getting to kno and ringing n txting bla bla before marriage, tend to face problems early on is, cus all tht stuff of getting to kno ur partnet..joking and so on which one would do in marriage and add life to the marriage and bring couples closer, its already been done..and once in marriage it doesnt feel like something new...its just now their legally married. Marriages which are done according to how Deen has shown us MashaAllah have lot of blessings and is a healthy marriage inshaAllah.

[marjan]

order can not come from dis-order.

lol but it can! Chaos Theory

[Quest]

lol but it can! Chaos Theory

D'OH lol

hey emel true, but i noticed its always strange when u first meet its mixed emotions of shyness, akwardness, maybe intimidation lol, u get past that when u get to know each other, then when u marry and come home haha it starts all over again:rolleyes:

[Emelianenko]

D'OH lol

hey emel true, but i noticed its always strange when u first meet its mixed emotions of shyness, akwardness, maybe intimidation lol, u get past that when u get to know each other, then when u marry and come home haha it starts all over again:rolleyes:
Sis its tht factor of breaking the ice and whatknot which puts tht UMPH in marriages :p LOL and puts life into em. I kno mates who married lasses they checked in jahiliyah and they say it ya kno..nufing changes..same ol but just now they legally married.

[puella]

See the reason why some marriages, where people do all the talking and getting to kno and ringing n txting bla bla before marriage, tend to face problems early on is, cus all tht stuff of getting to kno ur partnet..joking and so on which one would do in marriage and add life to the marriage and bring couples closer, its already been done..and once in marriage it doesnt feel like something new...its just now their legally married. Marriages which are done according to how Deen has shown us MashaAllah have lot of blessings and is a healthy marriage inshaAllah.


Absolutely, i do agree with you, but only to a certain extent...as there are some occasions when not speaking to the potential spouse can also cause problems in terms of compatibility. i guess the key word here is in moderation and if the need arises for there to be a wali present also inshaALlah, which has already been stated

[Emelianenko]

Absolutely, i do agree with you, but only to a certain extent...as there are some occasions when not speaking to the potential spouse can also cause problems in terms of compatibility. i guess the key word here is in moderation and if the need arises for there to be a wali present also inshaALlah, which has already been stated
Aye i know what u mean but thts why islam has permitted tht both possible spouses prior to getting married they can talk and ask each other Questions in the presence of a Wali. For example a mate went to see a possible partner with his family..talked and he felt he cudnt click with her and she wasnt what he was looking for..so cool..he looked elsewhere..no hopes dashed for anyone. Then i kno ppl who when they gone to spk to possible spouse theyve clicked and feel thts the person for them. Married and now mashaAllah they all didlee dooo

[MalikOne™]

i went to my brother the other day and after he showed of his silver tooth

This bit jus cracked me up :p

Masha'Allah if your istikhara was positive - and the brother is handsome, pious and thinks like you then what do u have to worry about? go for it:up:

[TEH]

The whole him approaching you off the street is kinda whack, but him asking you for your Wali's number...thats just Gold.. :D

Anyway, I wouldnt let my sis dearest may a complete stranger, so either she marries someone I know already, or if it is a stranger, Im gonna talk to him, and his friends, and hey, maybe his pet cat aswell, JUST IN CASE...

But if the Istikhara is all good... :up:

[Submission]

:salams

Mashalllah, am glad to hear the good news and i hope it all works out for you Inshallah. I shall make dua for you and hope for the best.

Allah may have blessed you wiht this, always be thankful sis - peace.

Sub.

[puella]

i do have to say sis Q, that if that was me and some Brother had approached me like that i would have run a mile, or started crying!
and if i was brave enough and caught him looking at me, i would have told him to lower his gaze...im not very brother-friendly i guess! hey but each to their own.

[.: Anna :.]

Sister if ur interested in this seriously, the best thing to do is give ur uncle all the info and his number, and get him to check him out, then he can come and together wit ur uncle u can check this guy, this deen, background, attitude etc for compatibility
but insha allah definately u gt to involve ur uncle asap if u wna move it forwards

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:

:salams

Aww sis Quest i must say that is simply lovely and :insha: i hope that things progress in a halal manner, definately as everyone has been saying get your Wali involved.

A few weeks back a similar situation happened to me, i was sitting in the computer room at university and this brother came up and started to question me, at first i thought he was on crack, the moved it to lack of sleep then finally realised he was interested :p I realised i wasn't interested but he hinted he was but the most important thing was to convey that i wasn't, because false hopes are so bad. If you feel you want this brother and that he is the one who will help you complete half your Deen then go for it all in a Halal way.

Personally after getting this brother take a hint, which i don't think has i haven't been back to uni since and he asks another brother where the Arab with the nice smile is, :eek:

That's weird cuz i'm more Kashmiri here :D

From your post i think you like him but you're a bit wary, it is SO important to ensure he has a good background i don't mean the whole status/money thang, but the fact he is ' MUSLIM husband material' ... you know what i mean :love:

:salams

[pdj_m]

assalamu alaykum.
sister, i think you should take evryone's advice and get ur wali involved because if you feel this is right you should go through with it. these things actually do work sometimes :D . to give you some more hope, i had a friend who was approached by a brother after he followed her home from a bakery! okay that part was scary, but she told her parents and now she's getting engaged in the summer. so inshallah it will turn out fine and as Allah (swt) wishes. nshallah i won't forget you in my dua :) .

[neelu]

I'd say get your uncle to talk to him (rather than your brother) and check him out cos' your uncle is practising so he'd have a better idea as to what to look for from an Islamic perspective. Also, perhaps your uncle should find out a few other things such as what kind of friends/family the bro has. If you all live in the same neighbourhood, you may know some mutual acquaintances who can give some insight as well.

I was also thinking, why doesn't the bro come on here:p

[nsr_kid]

Even though i dont know sister quest to much, but if u get married then whos gona posts intresting threads when ure gone :( :up: lol

One advise i can give u is, that arabs are BIG and i mean BIG PERVS. My wifes an arab and she tells me everything bout these guys who approach women, they look innocent and try covering thier past. So my advise is, try to get some background info on the dude if u can inshallah. U dnt wana jump into a whole which is to deep for u :up: , but allhumdulillah ure smart and bright so that wont be to much of a bring problem. But as i said try to know sum background info on the guy and make sure ure british citizanship ( if u have 1) dosent have a big part in this little case ;)

All in all make dua, so far u've made the right move and should be pround of ureself and do shukr. Now just plan ure future moves wiv MASHWARA :up:

If u want u can have a word wiv my wify inshallah ;)

Assalaamualikum

[puella]

bless...always talking about his wife

[K@M]

Guessing it was sometihng like this:

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7057/saalam3kw.jpg

[janathi]

Guessing it was sometihng like this:

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7057/saalam3kw.jpg

:salams

:rotfl:

:wswrwb:

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:

:salams

Akhee k@m that is brilliant MashAllah! :D

(btw what software you using for stuff like that? I'm usuing paint shop pro at the mo but wanna convert to another)

:salams

[Guardian Hijab]

That is the cutest thing I have ever read.

*sigh* so romantic:inlove:

:love:

I say look more into his past, and if all things are peachy

GO FOR IT GIRLFRIEND!:up: What a story to tell your future kids insh'Allah. LOL It reminds me how my parents met.

[Ayah]

I would say go for it as well.. in the sense of getting him in contact with your uncle, checking his background out, etc. I'm not sure why people look down upon considering marriage from someone you met "off the street" when people have gotten married off the internet. Atleast the person you meet off the street probably lives nearby, lol. It's a good sign that he asked for your wali's number. However, it's probably best to avoid speaking to him by phone until your uncle (or whoever family member) has spoken to him insha Allah.

Make dua'a that if it's khayr, Allah makes it easy for you. And if it's not, then may Allah keep him away.

~Ayah

[mgk81]

i have a question, say if the potential spouses cannot communicate in the presence of a wali, and they dont get to really speak about issues that need be spoken about what then?

[Cashew]

Even in the secular non-Muslim world, simply seeing how the other person behaves in front of your family and close friends is very, very important.

Attraction between man and woman, even "just a little" attraction, is such a powerful thing that it tends to cloud our judgment.

And in many cases, it doesn't just "cloud" our judgment. It jumps up and down on it with big heavy boots until our judgment is worthless.:D

So, it's always best to get a third party involved as soon as possible.

If this Arab fellow is truly a faithful Muslim, he will admire and respect the fact that you've introduced your walli to the situation.

And if this Arab fellow doesn't want to talk via your walli, then you pretty much know what you've got on your hands.

You come across as a very smart and charming young woman, Quest. If this doesn't work out, there are certainly many other fish in the sea.

[jimm]

he may just want citizenship.

[Supernova Nebula]

i have a question, say if the potential spouses cannot communicate in the presence of a wali, and they dont get to really speak about issues that need be spoken about what then?

then you have to initiate, start talking about it.

[outlandish]

he may just want citizenship.
assalamulaikom
Lols hmm this is what was crossing my mind too. Sis I am sorry if I dont sound as positive as the others but ur my sis in islaam so I love u like my own sis. You dont marry someone u see on the street whom has seen u once or twice and suddenly decides ur the one for him, that just doesnt go too well with me,to me it would feel like he isnt of that much a strong character. But since this has progressed I wouldnt get all the info about him as much as possible. Marriage is a big thing sweet sis so please dont be hasty in selecting the one for u.

[neelu]

i have a question, say if the potential spouses cannot communicate in the presence of a wali, and they dont get to really speak about issues that need be spoken about what then?

I really sense that a lot of guys behave differently when parents are around and are less likely to say what they really think. If I have to meet a potential rishta, I take my brother with me:D

[Quest]

I cant stop laughing, all of you who replied thank u,

submission your signiture is of the hook lool

N-Kid your post made me laugh the most, am one step ahead akii, this brother aint after my papers hahah

outlandish, thanks for looking out for me, thats pretty sweet, times like this i love being a muslim, i did/do have similar thoughts like yours. like i said i wont come to a conclution based on these thoughts, am waiting for the facts.

Let me tell u about quest folks.

a year ago i was going to marry this other brother for all the wrong reasons.
at first i was not on it, then he said "Marry me quest and i promise u will live a life of comfort"

i still said no, only to return home, to a house full of 6 boys, mum and step dad, the mess was so bad, i sat on the stairs with my head on my knees, couldnt believe what they did to the house and i was gone for like 2 3 days.

anyways after cleaning, refusing help because my bros just make it worse. i went to sleep around the early hours. vexed, tired, annoyed, and fed up

then as i lay my head down that brothers words came to my head "life of comfort"

at that moment i wanted to say yes to his proposal, then my conscience wispered "do not make a big decision whilst driven by emotion"

so i listened.

whats my point?

marriage is not a fashion for me, its not a must do thing as it is to many sisters.

so no, i will never marry a guy for the wrong reason.

with this arab brother, so far so good, he seems sincere, and what not, i have taken the advice given to me here, his just waiting, lol he has to because i cant get hold of my wali yet.

he has told his brother, i know because, i got a phone call the other day, before the brother says something like

"this is so and so's brother, i understand ukti that u do not want to speak, i respect that and i respect the diin, if u just listen there is no need for u to speak back so there will be no problem i hope, i am calling because basicaly my bro has told me about you, and those close to him, he says he understands u better face to face as opposed to the phone. i understand that u will get your wali involved,we are just waiting, if u like we will contact them, pls let us know ...."

when he finished, i said "ok i understand where u are coming from, thanks for calling,i will keep u posted, till the next episode ma'salam"

i guess the ball is in my court huh? i will deal with this, inshahallah i just took a step back, because a few nights ago i had a dream about this brother.

u wont believe what i saw! in my dream, i was his wife and i was actually happy, he was standing smiling.

cant remember much, i woke up, surprised, didnt know what to think, the dream came after my duas.

so it seems like this brother has many points lol

Allah knows best. if it doesnt work out, am not attached to him emotionaly so i will have no problem moving on, if it does work out then its qadr.

later folks.


p.s Cashew :_) thanks for ur response, again i pray ALLAH guides u. i have a feeling u will be my brother in faith soon.

[K@M]

:start:

:salams

Akhee k@m that is brilliant MashAllah! :D

(btw what software you using for stuff like that? I'm usuing paint shop pro at the mo but wanna convert to another)

:salams

:wswrwb:

Ooh jazakAllah, sorry, must have forgotton to reply to this. I use Photoshop CS2 aka photoshop 10, its the only way to go, I recommend you to use it :)

[mgk81]

yes one should have a a wali/mahram etc present and aware ofcorse without doubt. What i'm saying or asking is that shouldnt the 2 parties be given time alone with the presence of mahram around the house but not in the same room as the potential couple. Give them time to just get to know bit of each other, as its they that would be living together and not the wali/mahram.

Isnt it such that u the individual decide if the person is right for u, and quran and sunnah explains ofcorse which is best to look for in someone.

and there has to be some attraction, as why is it allowed that a man is allowed to see a womans face if she wears veil/face covering?

[Supernova Nebula]

yes one should have a a wali/mahram etc present and aware ofcorse without doubt. What i'm saying or asking is that shouldnt the 2 parties be given time alone with the presence of mahram around the house but not in the same room as the potential couple. Give them time to just get to know bit of each other, as its they that would be living together and not the wali/mahram.

Isnt it such that u the individual decide if the person is right for u, and quran and sunnah explains ofcorse which is best to look for in someone.

and there has to be some attraction, as why is it allowed that a man is allowed to see a womans face if she wears veil/face covering?

well, why not the two parties meet in an environment where there wont be fitna, meaning, not in a closed room, or maybe in public? is not having wali is when both have agreed on marriage, and the walis need to know more about their potential son/daughter in law? just my opinion though.

[umm_huraiyrah]

Sister........Sounds like a match to me. Do not be afraid of love when 2 become 1. You two become stronger as a couple, as 1. as far as race, culture...........don't matter. Allah will guide you. Allah knows best! :inlove:

Sister Habiba:hidban:

[TinyTerror]

Assalamualaikum

Hmmm....this kinda think makes me uneasy only because in my experience the guys who have the nerve to come up to you direct and ask for your wali's number are usually plonkers who are just trying to chirps you kinda like "ooh i likes your face gimme ur wali's number heheheh" but usually even less pleasant :rolleyes:

But mashAllah from your account this bro doesn't seem like that though Allahu Alim. Of course you will have been able to see whether he lowered his gaze and what his overall conduct was like etc etc but even then be very very careful and make sure your wali checks him out thoroughly.

You seem very sincere sister mashAllah. Sometimes what feels right may not be what is good for us. Only Allah Azzawajal knows so obviously continue doing your istikhara and leave it to Allah SubhanAllah Wa Ta'ala and i pray Allah Tala blesses you with a happy and fulfilled marriage. inshAllah

I hope i didn't offend you

Ma'assalama

PS Don't forget to send me some wedding cake!! ;) I'll makes extra dua for you *bribe* :D

[Khadhijah]

well said, i know exactly what u are talking about, before him i never acknowledged a brother on the street, we have a word for them in somali its called shahariyaal

LOL @Shahariyaal. :rofl1:

Insha Allah sis make your uncle do some thorough checking and give him some gruesome interrogation. Subhan Allah i hope things work out for you.

[(*_Hamzah]

:salams:

A brother recently asked me what is what is the proper Islamic way of asking some one for their hand in marriage?

My reply was:

You only want their hand?

Well to marry that hand, you need to approach the hand's father.

You need to have a decent home for that hand to live in with you.

You need to have a good income to support that hand so that it can put rings on its fingers and bangles on its wrist.

You need to have nerves of steel so that you can continue to love that hand even when you find it wrapped around your throat.

[TinyTerror]

^^^ :rotfl:

If i didn't know better i'd think you were an old married codger who gets beats from his wife :D

[Al-Irhaab]

how does a sister ask someone in marriage who has saved her life... now that is a more relevent question... :D

[TinyTerror]

^^^ :confused: Why is it more relevant?

Hmmm with men becoming less like men by the day i'd say it's the other way round 'how does a brother ask someone in marriage who has saved his life' :D

He could pretend to swoon :rotfl:

[(*_Hamzah]

^^^ :rotfl:

If i didn't know better i'd think you were an old married codger who gets beats from his wife :D

:salams:

I’ am old, but age has been kind to me, and Alhamdulilah I’ll be the best husband to my wife and the a good father to my children , my wife wont have any reason to hit me loool

At least I know what’s on your mind (beating men loool) :torture:

[cheeky]

whats up with all the 'All Arab men are pervs' business?!?! Pervs come in all different colurs and ethnicity, not just Arab! :rolleyes:

The ones with no hayaa may very well be pervs but there are Arab brothers who would'nt look at sisters like that if u paid them because they fear Allah as they should.

Anyway sister quest, I pray Allah blessed u with the best, Ameen

[MMS]

if a bro approached me like that i wud automatically think hmm he seems quite experienced i wonder how many other girls he has approached

[Al-Irhaab]

^^^ :confused: Why is it more relevant?

Hmmm with men becoming less like men by the day i'd say it's the other way round 'how does a brother ask someone in marriage who has saved his life' :D

He could pretend to swoon :rotfl:

so next time someone saves ur life u can ask him innit :inlove:

brown jubah ring any bells :rolleyes:

[TinyTerror]

Aaaargh :embar: Why did you have to bring that up! :torture:

But LOOOL if i had to propose every time a brother saved my sorry little *** i would most likely have a rampage of vengeful wifeys after my blood :D plus would end up committing major haramee by having more than one husband :asta: No no no :p

[Quest]

You people are hilarious, thanks for ur messages

MMS lool sis i know what u mean, i thought every possible bad thing, but him using the same line on other sisters was not one of them, for one thing he stuttered like whoa, he was shy, slightly intimidated or maybe felt akward about the situation, what he said seemed sincere and not rehersed lool it wasnt all that anyway.

its been a couple of days now folks, a lot has happened since, i will be honest, i have been a pain in the neck, towards him simply because i was being to pessimistic. i assumed the worst in everything, but the more i prayed made dua the more khayr i saw.

my family are still in the process of checking him out. if my uncle is pleased then i will inshahallah marry him, if my uncle is not, and his reasons are valid diin wise then thats that.

keep ur duas coming, i appreciate them all. and ur comments

Tiny terror no i am not offended lol, its not like his my husband or what u say is based on facts its just ur opinion based on the situation and i can honestly say ur opinion is valid. i have seen worst case scenerios come alive.

i had character witnesses speak 2 me about him, i like what i hear so far.

my best friends fiance wants to meet him and do his own check up for me, so am blessed there.

the one brother i wanted to do a check up on him died last night, he was marytered back home (long story) i know its what he always dreamed of, but part of me wishs that brother was alive long enuff to meet this brother.

but qadr ALLAH.
my uncle is still here.

make dua for me, and if i do get married obviously u guys will know.

truthfully, am very hard to convince, and to fool so thats a good thing where this bro is concerned, but the more i find out abt him, the more i see its further from what i assumed. i have accepted his good character now am just seeing if there is consistency. i think my uncles report abt him will influence my final decision.

if his good for me in my diin then may the report be khayr if his not may allah replace him with one better

amin

[sadf]

time goes fast, it don't wait around, look how many sisters have reached thirty and they still not married, they still sittin all single at home, the brothers can always go back home to their parents country to get married, a lot of my friends and family do not have a good view of the muslim women in this country, even my female family members told me not to marry in this country, even though I was born here, bcos they believe the women in this country r corrupt women.

[Emelianenko]

Sis Quest how old is this brother?

[(*_Hamzah]

the one brother i wanted to do a check up on him died last night, he was marytered back home (long story) i know its what he always dreamed of, but part of me wishs that brother was alive long enuff to meet this brother.

but qadr ALLAH.
my uncle is still here.



Innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji'oon

[umm umayr]

it is makruh for opposite genders to pass salams to eachother, let alone all the talking that was done on the street

he should have had his eyes lowered

how can you look around on the streets looking for your spouse!! aoudhubillah

theres ways and means of doing things

and you talking to him on phone etc, was haram

even though it was regarding marriage, you needed your wali amrs permission!!

subhanallah the way people do their searching buisness

sorry to sound like all above, but where has the haya gone of muslims?!!

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

Sorry to sound so harsh but you should of just ignored him and walked off as its unislamic what he did. As alot of you guys may know that him approaching you is wrong and hence that he approached you because he saw your face which he found pleasing which he should of lowered his gaze down. If i was you personaly i would lose contacts with him asap as a person should think "what kind of person will approach a female & vicer versa" I would be worried, if he was a religious person then a religious person will not do this.

Insha ALLAH if you want to get married tell your family or family friends and tell your friends that you want to get married as this is the best way and this is how it should be.

[sadf]

maybe he really does care about her, maybe he was attracted by her angel like smile or her noor, how do u get married, if u don't meet anyone, and what about women shouldn't their lower their gase as well, or r men the only wicked ones, just wondering.

[pdj_m]

yes women should lower their gaze as well. "ghad al basar" is for both men and women.

[SomeAAChHH]

Salam! I have read the topic i think you are going to do get everything right sister, dont worry to much, it will be oright inshaAllah!:)
May Allah bless you in everything that is to face! InshaAllah :)
But i have an other comment, to sisters

umm umayr and Al-Muhaajiroun : how do u think your comments? Because, i didn't get anything about islam(laws) from your sayings. :) Can you please explain how do you mean this,i mean it in way : is this in the Qur'an somehwere i got it missed maybe! ?! JazzakAllahu khayiren :)

[bint]

yeah im quite curious quest..how did it all go? its been a week right? :scratch::up:

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

maybe he really does care about her, maybe he was attracted by her angel like smile or her noor, how do u get married, if u don't meet anyone, and what about women shouldn't their lower their gase as well, or r men the only wicked ones, just wondering.

you mean you didn't read my previous post? your questions have been answered by my post previously, please read.

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

Salam! I have read the topic i think you are going to do get everything right sister, dont worry to much, it will be oright inshaAllah!:)
May Allah bless you in everything that is to face! InshaAllah :)
But i have an other comment, to sisters

umm umayr and Al-Muhaajiroun : how do u think your comments? Because, i didn't get anything about islam(laws) from your sayings. :) Can you please explain how do you mean this,i mean it in way : is this in the Qur'an somehwere i got it missed maybe! ?! JazzakAllahu khayiren :)

lol you too right you missed it, sorry to be abit harsh but this is soo basic in islam, and it makes me sick when fellow muslims are cheering on quest about how did it go with that stranger who doesn't even no, who she met on the street, sorry but its soo unislamic. and I'm surprised about people don't no that its not allowed in islam, its soo sad really, but education is a must, as well as reading the quran you must read the hadith as well coz its a must as ALLAH (swt) has sent Muhammad (saw) as an example to mankind. Now then bcoz I'm posting from my pocket pc so I can't cut and paste from the Quran so please go and read Sura 24 v30 and 31 in the Quran and Al-Bhukari 7.3 and 7.4. I'm soo limited at the moment as I'm on my pocket pc I can't give you a lot of refs on the Quran and in the hadith, but go to www.islamweb.net and you will find a lot there regarding that it is not allowed.

[neelu]

go and read Sura 24 v30 and 31 in the Quran and Al-Bhukari 7.3 and 7.4.

TMQ 24:30 is about lowering the gaze, which according to Quest's description, he was already doing. I'm having difficulty deciphering what is meant by Al Bhukari 7.3 and 7.4. When I tried to google it, I found evidences regarding the Witr prayer:confused:

Al Muhaajiroun, you're coming across as one of those "lock up your daughter" types.

[sadf]

I think sister al-muhajiroun is definetely right in what she says, the scholars havin given many daleels and hadiths for this, I know this and I'm not even the most practising of Muslims, I don't thinks it is allowed, here is the evidence.

Question #1121: Limits and conditions within which a man may speak to a non-mahram woman



Click here to get a printable version

Question :


My question is about the adab or the manner between a brother and sister?
I need clarifcation, are we allowed to give salam to sister who is not your muhram or talk to her as you talk to a brother, and how much you allowed to talk?
and what about the non-muhram who are cousine, for example the uncles daughter Am I allowed to give salam and talk to her, and how is her life?please provide for me daleel(proof) and what about marriage?
what allowed talk and salam, ( what is allowed and not) all these things!
because today people mixed between culture and deen, when you tell them about that they say you are bringing new religon!, even alot brothers who relgious don't know this, you may see salafy brother talking sweetly to sister who were nikab and not his muhram,

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

In brief, what the fuqaha’ have said about women’s voices is that they are not ‘awrah in and of themselves, and there is nothing wrong with listening to them when there is a need to do so, so they do not forbid listening to them, but certain conditions apply, as follows:

The woman should speak without elongating the words, making her voice soft, or raising her voice. It is haraam for a man to listen with enjoyment, for fear of fitnah (temptation).

The decisive factor for knowing what is haraam in the matter of women’s speaking is what is included in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allaah), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner.” [al-Ahzaab 33:32]

What is forbidden is being too soft in speech. It is obligatory for women to speak in an honourable manner, which means, as the mufassireen explained, that they should not make their voices soft when addressing men. In conclusion, what is required of the Muslim woman when she speaks to a non-mahram man is that she should adhere to what is mentioned in this aayah. She should refrain from what is forbidden and should fulfil her duties. She should speak only when necessary, and only about matters that are permissible and honourable, not evil. Between a woman and a non-mahram man there should be no intonation, gestures, chat, joking, flirting or playful talk, so that there will be no room for provocation of desires and doubts. Women are not prevented from talking to non-mahram men when it is necessary to do so, such as dealing directly with them when buying things or conducting any other financial transaction, because in such cases it is necessary for both parties to speak. A woman may also ask a scholar about some legal Islamic matter, or a man may ask a woman such questions, as is proven in various texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Within the guidelines described above, there is nothing wrong with a woman speaking to a non-mahram man. It is also permissible for men to greet women with salaam and vice versa, according to the most correct opinion, but this greeting must be free of anything that may provoke desire in the person in whose heart is a disease, so as to be safe from fitnah and pay attention to the regulations outlined above.

If there is fear of fitnah being provoked by this greeting, then the woman should refrain from either initiating or returning the greeting, because warding off fitnah by neglecting the greeting is warding off mischief, and warding off mischief takes precedence over doing something useful. (See al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah by ‘Abd al-Kareem Zaydaan, vol 3/276). And Allaah knows best.

[sadf]

Speaking with a woman to whom one is not related (i.e., not mahram) should only be for a specific need, such as asking a question, buying or selling, asking about the head of the household, and so on. Such conversations should be brief, with nothing doubtful in either what is said or how it is said.

The idea of limiting speech with women to the five instances mentioned in the question – which are: to ask how her family is, for medical purposes, for financial purposes (e.g. in a shop), to find out about her personality for marriage suitability and to give her dawah (Islamic knowledge) – needs to be approached with caution, because they could be taken as examples instead of limits. One must also adhere to the conditions set out by the Sharee’ah even in instances where such conversations are necessary, such as in da’wah, giving fatwas, buying or selling, etc. And Allaah knows best.

In the answer to question no. 1121 it says:

Women are not prevented from talking to non-mahram men when it is necessary to do so, such as dealing directly with them when buying things or conducting any other financial transaction, because in such cases it is necessary for both parties to speak. A woman may also ask a scholar about some legal Islamic matter, or a man may ask a woman such questions, as is proven in various texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah. Within the guidelines described above, there is nothing wrong with a woman speaking to a non-mahram man. It is also permissible for men to greet women with salaam and vice versa, according to the most correct opinion, but this greeting must be free of anything that may provoke desire in the person in whose heart is a disease, so as to be safe from fitnah and pay attention to the regulations outlined above.

If there is fear of fitnah being provoked by this greeting, then the woman should refrain from either initiating or returning the greeting, because warding off fitnah by neglecting the greeting is warding off mischief, and warding off mischief takes precedence over doing something useful. (See al-Mufassal fi Ahkaam al-Mar’ah by ‘Abd al-Kareem Zaydaan, vol. 3/276). And Allaah knows best.

Thus it is known that we do not mean general talk for no need, or a great deal of private talk. Rather it should be just as much as is needed in order to reply.

Going into detail in permissible talk or in shar’i matters when there is no need for that leads to removal of barriers between the two parties, which may lead to negative consequences

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

TMQ 24:30 is about lowering the gaze, which according to Quest's description, he was already doing. I'm having difficulty deciphering what is meant by Al Bhukari 7.3 and 7.4. When I tried to google it, I found evidences regarding the Witr prayer:confused:

Al Muhaajiroun, you're coming across as one of those "lock up your daughter" types.

Oh please neelu, he didn't propose to her with his eyes close did he? obviously he looked at her when he walked passed her which made him approach her bcoz she was pleasing to his eyes. I mean how dare he, she could of been married, what then? if I saw a man approach my wife regarding marriage I would go bilistic. this is a bad practise in finding love and there is no manners. a man cannot approach a woman as she maybe married or could may be your mother, imagine the feeling. lol and why are you googling it for? don't you have hadith Al-Bhukari? anyways go to www.islamweb.net as they are really good. And what's wrong in locking up my daughters from men like that, that they will have no shame in doing what they do. any means necessary in preventing rape that may occur, and will also deffenately lead to free mixing, and one thing for sure that not a lot of girls are favourable in men walking behind them or following them, I mean lets just say that quest didn't find him attractive? what then? I think it would of been a whole different story, infact the thread would of been renamed "scary men stalking me". I bet that would change tunes.

[SomeAAChHH]

lol you too right you missed it, sorry to be abit harsh but this is soo basic in islam, and it makes me sick when fellow muslims are cheering on quest about how did it go with that stranger who doesn't even no, who she met on the street, sorry but its soo unislamic. and I'm surprised about people don't no that its not allowed in islam, its soo sad really, but education is a must, as well as reading the quran you must read the hadith as well coz its a must as ALLAH (swt) has sent Muhammad (saw) as an example to mankind. Now then bcoz I'm posting from my pocket pc so I can't cut and paste from the Quran so please go and read Sura 24 v30 and 31 in the Quran and Al-Bhukari 7.3 and 7.4. I'm soo limited at the moment as I'm on my pocket pc I can't give you a lot of refs on the Quran and in the hadith, but go to www.islamweb.net and you will find a lot there regarding that it is not allowed.


No problem sis, just go on laughing :D So u was saying about these ajahs, i put two more to them, ... :

30. Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

31. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands their fathers their husbands' fathers their sons their husbands' sons their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or the slaves whom their right hands possess or male servants free of physical needs or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah that ye may attain Bliss.

32. Marry those among you who are single or the virtuous ones among your slaves male or female: if they are in poverty Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasseth all and He knoweth all things.

33. Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) give them such a deed if ye know any good in them; yea give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them yet after such compulsion is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them).

34. We have already sent down to you verses making things clear an illustration from (the story of) people who passed away before you and an admonition for those who fear (Allah).

35. Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree an Olive neither of the East nor of the West whose Oil is well-nigh luminous though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light. Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things.



I am asking my self in this moment what are the hidden ornaments?! You know sister, : i am not against niqab or what ever a woman is choosing for her self to make her in power over any evil... but, i am affraid it is unpossibly true that Allah is ordering such veiling, because of all other ajahs :) all other laws, all other important things we have to do, and we cannot do this all when we are hidden over everything... Overhidden :D .. please dont take that wrong
:D :) ... and , it is not stopping :) now we get to the marriage subject : there are ajahs in wich Allah speaks about love and sympathy for eachother, and that He made us partners equal with us, or in way we are ..i am sorry sister my english is so bad i just take the next best word sometimes, and sometimes is it gemanenglish , or bosnian, or some other, really im sorry :) .. but back to the subject again : do you think a human is able to know that if some other people arrange who he or she should take as wife and husband, without seeig eachother, without speaking with eachother... Than and at least : there is an ajah in which Allah said to Muhammed s.a.w.s. that he is not going to get allowed more woman, no matter how he may be "taken" ?! with her beauty. So the women could not be veiled over their face... I am not sure about the speaking, but i think it is today very necesarry to speak with someone or hear him speaking to know about him if you can think of an marriage.
And at least: you speak about hadith, they are saying that Muhammed had 14 or 15 wifes... i dont believe it because Allah calls all believers men who
desire for more than four wifes as ... i dont know the word unfortuantely. Anyways he is over the limit, and Allah is not satisfied with it... so it says in the Qur'an. ... Assalamu aleykum sister, i hope we will make this conversation complete :)

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

:) 1st thing 1st, I'm a MAN by the way sorry if my avatar have missled a few.

anyways, now then, sorry to say that I didn't quite understand exactly what you typed but I will answer the ones that I did understand.

1: Prophet Muhammad (saw) had 9 wife's in his lifetime, it doesn't say he had 9 wife's at the same time. So a man or a woman can marry many times if they wanted too but just not at the same time.

2: when a man visits or a lady visitis to see someone regarding marriage he/she must look at each other without being shy and you must talk to each other face to face and ask as much questions as you want to. And of course all of this has to be taken place with the girls mahram present and in the same room as them.

One companion told the Prophet (saw) that he saw a girl for marriage and he asked him if he saw her face. and the companion said no, so the Prophet (saw) of ALLAH told him to go back and see her face.

So this real story is an eample for us.

Visit: www.islamweb.net

[ur_yusra]

If your a brother why do you have a sister on ur avatar?

I think its inappropriate

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

If your a brother why do you have a sister on ur avatar?

I think its inappropriate

Aahh excuse me? YOU don't THINK its inappropriate? well it doesn't matter what YOU think does it?

Wanting to no why, well because I think sisters that wear niqaab are Masha ALLAH are very great espeacially niqaabi sisters wearing it right here in the UK where we are surrounded by people who would love to run us over if they had the chance.

Please don't turn this thread into a "WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT AVATAR THREAD"

Thanks

[SomeAAChHH]

Well, salam - brother! :) Thank you for your reply, but still : you did not answered to all points i have mentioned, what is about talking with eachother, and what is about this permis to get someone know without parents :) like Musaa a.s. and his wife , he saw her, talked to her, helped her with the work and then he got her for his wife...

[Quest]

well well well this thread has got very intresting over the days huh?

lets see where do i start

ok i missed something very important in my opening thread
the brother asked if i could take his details to my wali, my phone was switched of when he realised he felt intimidated akward and what not then asked for my number, i made it difficult and asked why? and the rest is history.

emel he is 28 years old

umm amayr and al muhajiroun, i understand ur view points, and appreciate ur comments, but one thing is disturbing me, u both seem to be so (lost for words) about the basics of lowering the gase, seems like in the midst of things u both forgot to give your brother an excuse, i believe islam says 70? did u excuse him once? before u passed judgment on him?

having said that, lets not get carried away with the lowering the gaze issue, correct me if i am wrong but the first look is not haram no?

yes he lowered his gaze, the whole time he stood there he didnt look at me once.

as for searching for spouse on the streets, come on bro & sis, i thought only ALLAH knows the intention

i have been approached by non practicing bros before and believe me i never give them the time of day.

this brother was different, umm umayr u are talking about haya sis from what i know and have been told about him, he has it, he is a good brother.

Folks remember the only info u have is based on what i said in my rushed out opening thread, so becareful with ur judgment.

i am a women who often has what ever is in her stomach on her tongue, so i will say what i think, i think umm umayr and al muhajiroun ought to take a chill pill and analyse the situation from all angles as opposed to the one angle they are coming from now.

yes i am defending this brother because i am 98% sure inshahallah that i will marry him, and from what i know of him so far as a muslim and how al muhajiroun and U umayrs responses make him look like an unislamic womaniser on the prowl is seriously annoying me, simply because its far from the truth

umm umayr, sister first of all the last thing on my mind was marriage, and even if it was i seriously am not the type to go to my family or friends and say hook me up (no pun intended)

if i want something i ask ALLAH and it comes to me, it works with everything else so why not marriage?

my friends have tried constantly to hook me up with brothers that were interested in the past, but i was either not ready, or just not interested. as for my family there is like one person properly practicing, the rest of them do not think its there place to 'find' me a suitable spouse.

yes talking to the brother on the phone is haram, give me some credit i spoke to him twice and for 5 mins, first time was me passing on my uncles contacts, i got distracted and ended the call, second time was to continue the topic from the previous conversation where i spoke to his bro simply because he didnt want to talk to me himself inorder to get my uncles contact details.

to every muslim reading my post, what makes the ummah of muhammed scw today in 2006 extremely different from the companions, is our inability to practice our faith properly with balance, we either come across weak and compromising, or straight up extreme.

truth is the companions as sheikh anwar awlaki said were balanced, they were more liberal then the 'conservative muslims' and more conservative then the 'liberal muslims'

example i think it was ayeesha (ra) sister asma who once upon a time was walking carrying a heavy load, the prophet scw and his companions came by and the prophet scw offered her a ride, asma knowing her husbands gheera said no, when her husband found out he said he rather she took the ride instead of burden herself.

my point will be clearer as u read on

today we have some practicing sisters who dont practice the diin as a whole, what they do is take one part and practice it and the other part later and practice it, truthfully some do not have the hikmah to excercise islam properly as the companions did. by properly i mean one time with wisdom.

an example is a sister who is out, its raining she decides to catch a cab (proberly a non muslim driving u never no these things are random)
anyways a brother she knows locally sees her and offers her a lift, she says no??

why? she says she cant be alone with him, she knows him and conversation may start etc etc etc

do u see the lack of wisdom in this? part of what she said is correct for shaytan is the 3rd party but in her circumstance her decision lacked wisdom, she would get into a cab with a non muslim stranger? but not her muslim brother?

to make matters worse we would then have some brothers who will pass judgment on the bro for offering a lift or let alone speaking to her

question would they pass the same judgment on the prophet scw when he offered asma a lift? yes the bro and muhammed scw can not be compared diin wise but the moral and situation is the same.

this is what i mean by the prophet and the companions practiced islam with hikma and excercised it one time with balance, this what sheik anwar meant when he said they were more liberal then the conservative muslims and more conservative then the liberal muslims.

what we have today are some self righteous folks who think they are following the diin the right way but in reality are short on wisdom then pass judgment on their brothers and sisters failing to realise DESTINY.

how do u know that ALLAH did not destine that the brother would meet me in that way?

the first gaze stems from instant reaction the second gaze is by intention no? thru his instant reaction he saw me, he didnt need to look twice simply because he intended to lower his gaze, so please think carefully and pass ur judgement with wisdom.


for those of u who are interested in whats happening with me now, honestly there is a 98% chance i will marry this guy, i said previously i like what i hear. my uncle and him are still speaking,and he is coming to london for my sake because he wants to meet the brother face to face. and visit his local mosque and what not, i was informed the bro called him today also but my uncle was at the kaba in makkah and they arranged to talk again 8pm london time.

so we will see, diin wise i like this brother very much he respects islam, we have the same mindsets in issues of jihad voting etc from what i am told abt him, and thats a shock to me, contray to public belief he is a good muslim, yes i am being defensive because some of y'all got it so wrong its hilarious that and he is inshahallah soon gonna be my husband so yes i am defensive i guess his growing on me!
so far he has passed my test, his RCC (Reserved calm and collected) thats the opposite of me lol most times i guess opposites attract.

what annoys me most about some comments made on this post is how people seem to talk thinking they are better then other muslims, please

dont think due to this one circumstance the bro goes around hollering at pretty ladies.

am no expert on destiny folks but from what i understand ALLAH destines the circumstances the situation but not what we choose 2 do with our free will.

this brother and i are at our destined posts. he obviously likes what he sees, it wasnt beauty that attracted him from what i know so far the brother is alhamdulilaah good looking so i doubt he struggles in the women department, what he liked was my 'calm humble walk' (i found that funny i didnt know i walked like that) and the way i wore my hijab with confidence and satisfaction.

be fair and realistic, he doesnt know me, for all he could no i may have been a tourist. if he wanted a future with me he had to act in the circumstance

this is ISLAM islam caters to every situation thats why its a perfect religion.
if this brother is captivated by me from just one look, who gives any ummah member the right to legislate what should be done? talking abt he should have not approached me.

why not? what forbids him from taking a chance? islam is about doing the right thing in every situation, even if the situation makes one feel uncomfortable, in our situation he was firm and str8 to the point yet extremely shy,

yes i could have been married but how many married jilbabis do u see walking alone? with high street shopping bags?


as for those of u who say ITS WRONG WRONG WRONG for him to approach me and ask me to give his contacts to my wali period

honestly i disagree, my best friends husband, who was marytered on monday (long story) did the same thing, and believe me when i say her husband was the only pious muslim i have ever had the pleasure of knowing. followed the prophet to the letter. and was marytered for simply speaking the haqq.

now when he saw her for the first time, he didnt do anything, later he made a dua "oh Allah guide her back to me"

4 weeks later i was persistant in my request to go to a certain mosque when my girl wanted another, i won and we went to my mosque choice where he happens to work!

this time when he saw her, he didnt make the same mistake due to his shyness, he approached her as we all sat on the same bus and gave a her note which had his name his contact details he then said "please pass this to ur wali inshahallah khayr" then he got of the bus,

4 months later they were married and he changed her life completely, shes 22 now a widow with 2 beautiful kids they met when me and her first started practicing. because of his influence she became a better women i should no shes been my best friend for years we were jahils together also.

my point is, yes she could have been married, sometimes we hesitate but when one doesnt dont be so hard on him for taking a risk.

not everything happens the fairy tale way, some things are destined and at times we are pushed to do the impossible thru instant reaction.

personaly i am glad this brother had the guts to approach me though i could see how worried and shy he was, it all added to his appeal if i am honest, when i saw him lowering his gaze i took advantage and looked at him properly then i to lowered my gaze.



something to think about

remember umm salama and i think abu talha got married? he was a kafir and her a believer, he approached her yes a kafir didnt no better but she was a believer and pious yet she conversated long enuff to say i wont marry u unless u was muslim, they married later her mahr request was that he take his shahada

and the prophet was very pleased when he heard.

if this scenerio was resseructed today in 2006 no doubt the sister who plays umm salama will be judged harshly by some muslims who understand their diin from one angle

why u talking 2 a kafir in the first place?
u should have ignored him
oh u implied u liked him and it was a shame he was a kafir etc

all these and then some will be said no doubt.

please give ur bros and sisters excuses, stop judging this bro for approaching me, from what i know he is a better muslim then some members here.

ur concerns are wlc ur advices are appreciated, just present them with hikmah and understanding and ISLAM thats all i ask

1 love and peace be upon those whom follow the guidance

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

you no what? I aint bothered anymore listen this is being stupid I told you its not allowed in Islam and your saying "what if, and that" take it or leave it, I did what I could do but your challenging me as if this is coming from me but its not this is ALLAH laws not mine so why dont you just accept then trying to refute it? you no in Islam when you see a muslim do somethink which is forbidden your meant to tell them, its not about see no evil or hear no evil. we Muslims believe in 1 ALLAH and the last Prophet Muhammad (saw). and ALLAH sent down Muhammad as a example to mankind to follow him, and now we follow the Sharia during and after Muhammad (saw). so please don't talk to me about the Sharia law of Musa (as) time. Muhammad (saw) time of the sharia are different to Musa (as). you no this is not funny anymore its worrying actually how people like your self are challenging me when I say its not Islamic, I mean actually this is general knowledge you should no that this not allowed, I mean the stupid kafirs at my work place will know that this is not allowed and I have Muslims on Ummah forum telling me that's its ok to free mixing. OK OK if you don't want to take my word for it then please ask someone who is knowledgeable, and fair enough if you want to learn there are many, many websites that you can find out and learn about Islam, the one I like www.islamweb.net go to it and search. there are a lot of circles that you can join with sisters and a lot of talks you can go to as well, the only way you can find out where these talks are maybe at the masjid or some by a friend. please don't take this the wrong way and don't be offended please as I'm only trying to help.

[Quest]

brother AL i read the first line of ur above post, am confused are u addressing me or someone else? please clarify because i really dont want to read what doesnt concern me right now its 1.37am

if it is for me let me know i will read it and respond, so far from what i read i hope its not because u got me all wrong

fi amaanilaah

[SomeAAChHH]

Salam! No it was not u meant sister, it is for me adressed i suppose so.

I have understood brother : the example and the whole telling about Musaa a.s. is how i understood you: something we dont should take as good and clean for having an example in this. Or any other will it mean of all the examples in the Qur'an, like Jakub a.s. or Ibrahim, or Ayoub, or Imran, or Zakkariah... Is this right? :) I will wait for your answer, salam aleykum wr wb!

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

brother AL i read the first line of ur above post, am confused are u addressing me or someone else? please clarify because i really dont want to read what doesnt concern me right now its 1.37am

if it is for me let me know i will read it and respond, so far from what i read i hope its not because u got me all wrong

fi amaanilaah

Salaam Quest,

it was meant for SomeAAChHH, i didnt see your post till today i dont know how i missed it, maybe we was writing the posts at the same time. but anyways, regarding how you met this brother which i think we should put it aside now as i have said what i wanted to regarding approaching men or females which can lead to temptation fitnah and confidents in free mixing. But Insha ALLAH he is a practicing brother with a beard (Fist Length) and dresses the part too and looks like a Muslim.

Just make sure he is not after your british passport, as i hear alot of stories, and when he comes and visits you with your wali at present, ask him if he has a british passport, if he says no, tell him why not. :p Im just helping you with the questions you have prepared in asking him, add that to your questions lists. :D

And another thing, my sister in law is 35 and she has no children, and my other sis in law has kids that all go to school so she doesnt have them during the days.

Wa Alaikumu Salaam

[greenwater]

I like this Hadith which I read in Purification of the Heart by Hamza Yusuf:

The Prophet(saw) said, "There is a tree in paradise reserved for one whose own faults preoccupied him from considering the faults of others."

Spending time thinking or talking about other people's faults is foolish. Time is short and is better invested in recognizing one's own shortcomings and then working consistently to eradicate them.

-
I agree with what sister Quest had to say, and that we should always do our best to follow the middle path, and avoid going to any extreme.

Remember, always smile :)

[MWarrior]

well quest all i can say is that make sure you look into the brother and his background before marrying him. speak to others that know him and find out what his like.
im not trying to put any thoughts in ur mind or im not suggestin anything but just make sure you do all the checks to make sure his the right guy. and do istikhara....

[ur_yusra]

Aahh excuse me? YOU don't THINK its inappropriate? well it doesn't matter what YOU think does it?

Wanting to no why, well because I think sisters that wear niqaab are Masha ALLAH are very great espeacially niqaabi sisters wearing it right here in the UK where we are surrounded by people who would love to run us over if they had the chance.

Please don't turn this thread into a "WHY DO YOU HAVE THAT AVATAR THREAD"

Thanks

I don't think the sister on the avatar would appreciate you having a picture of her. Have you asked her for her permission?

I am not making an issue.. I think you should remove it.

[Lu'Lu]

I don't think the sister on the avatar would appreciate you having a picture of her. Have you asked her for her permission?

I am not making an issue.. I think you should remove it.

:lahawla:

I TOTALLY agree with sis ur Yusra. Bro Al-Muhajiroun, do you know that she is someone's wife? I actually know the sister and after that picture was taken, she was very upset because the pic was ciculated all over the world as it is a reuters pic and her husband was so so angry and upset. How would you feel if your wife's picture was another man's avatar? That sis went to attend a demo and do something for the sake of Allah, its not like she was randomly posing and beautifying herself for the camera.

SubhanaAllah, some non muslims wrote some really vulgar stuff about her in blogs etc, very perverse. I think her husband even forbade her from goign to another demo because he was so upset about the way her picture was circulated. And now we have a Muslim brother using her pic as his avatar?:asta:

Though I am sure you may not have perverse thoughts, but seeing as this is a forum where other brothers post, surely you are subjecting others to fitnah.

Please do the honourable thing and change it, for the sake of that sister at least.

P.S Did not mean to have a rant if it may seem, just feel strongly about it because I know the sis and know how upset she was.

Oh and I just realised that I contributed to making this a 'Why do you have that avatar thread.' :rolleyes:

Apologies :smack:

[ur_yusra]

:lahawla:

I TOTALLY agree with sis ur Yusra. Bro Al-Muhajiroun, do you know that she is someone's wife? I actually know the sister and after that picture was taken, she was very upset because the pic was ciculated all over the world as it is a reuters pic and her husband was so so angry and upset. How would you feel if your wife's picture was another man's avatar? That sis went to attend a demo and do something for the sake of Allah, its not like she was randomly posing and beautifying herself for the camera.

SubhanaAllah, some non muslims wrote some really vulgar stuff about her in blogs etc, very perverse. I think her husband even forbade her from goign to another demo because he was so upset about the way her picture was circulated. And now we have a Muslim brother using her pic as his avatar?:asta:

Though I am sure you may not have perverse thoughts, but seeing as this is a forum where other brothers post, surely you are subjecting others to fitnah.

Please do the honourable thing and change it, for the sake of that sister at least.

P.S Did not mean to have a rant if it may seem, just feel strongly about it because I know the sis and know how upset she was.

Oh and I just realised that I contributed to making this a 'Why do you have that avatar thread.' :rolleyes:

Apologies :smack:

I thought it was the same sis..

lets hope it gets changed inshaAllah..

[Abu' Maryam]

Akhee Al-Muhaajiroun- my brother, in light of what our sister Lu'Lu just related in regards to the Ukthee in your avatar please for her honour :insha: do alter your avatar, :jkk: for your amal- may Allah (swt) reward you for this- Ameen.

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

I like this Hadith which I read in Purification of the Heart by Hamza Yusuf:

Spending time thinking or talking about other people's faults is foolish.

Remember, always smile :)

I totally agree, a Muslim should tell the other Muslim if they are doing somethink bad and then leave it in the hands of ALLAH, and not to go too much into it as in trying to comvince someone about it, as it will become an arguement just as long you have conveyed the message then leave it all in the hands of ALLAH.

[Al-Muhaajiroun]

:lahawla:

I TOTALLY agree with sis ur Yusra. Bro Al-Muhajiroun, do you know that she is someone's wife? I actually know the sister and after that picture was taken, she was very upset because the pic was ciculated all over the world as it is a reuters pic and her husband was so so angry and upset. How would you feel if your wife's picture was another man's avatar? That sis went to attend a demo and do something for the sake of Allah, its not like she was randomly posing and beautifying herself for the camera.

SubhanaAllah, some non muslims wrote some really vulgar stuff about her in blogs etc, very perverse. I think her husband even forbade her from goign to another demo because he was so upset about the way her picture was circulated. And now we have a Muslim brother using her pic as his avatar?:asta:

Though I am sure you may not have perverse thoughts, but seeing as this is a forum where other brothers post, surely you are subjecting others to fitnah.

Please do the honourable thing and change it, for the sake of that sister at least.

P.S Did not mean to have a rant if it may seem, just feel strongly about it because I know the sis and know how upset she was.

Oh and I just realised that I contributed to making this a 'Why do you have that avatar thread.' :rolleyes:

Apologies :smack:

salaam

Well because my intentions was different i didnt though about the things you have said regarding thats someones wife and other things. You may of read why i really put it up there and i though there was no problem because her face was covered, but you going too much into detail made me think about it, maybe bcoz you know her personaly and that you know how stressed she is regarding the pic circulating over the net, i guess a person just have to say the down side of me haveing the pic on my avatar and then i will do what is right.

[Quest]

Salaam Quest,

it was meant for SomeAAChHH, i didnt see your post till today i dont know how i missed it, maybe we was writing the posts at the same time. but anyways, regarding how you met this brother which i think we should put it aside now as i have said what i wanted to regarding approaching men or females which can lead to temptation fitnah and confidents in free mixing. But Insha ALLAH he is a practicing brother with a beard (Fist Length) and dresses the part too and looks like a Muslim.

Just make sure he is not after your british passport, as i hear alot of stories, and when he comes and visits you with your wali at present, ask him if he has a british passport, if he says no, tell him why not. :p Im just helping you with the questions you have prepared in asking him, add that to your questions lists. :D

And another thing, my sister in law is 35 and she has no children, and my other sis in law has kids that all go to school so she doesnt have them during the days.

Wa Alaikumu Salaam

w.salam

thanks for ur response akii, and ur advice i appreciate it, believe me am one step ahead in the passport department, the brother is clear.

my uncle sent me a text msg today saying "salam quest, how are u ? you are always in my dua, and on my mind i love u very much, i spoke to ____(the brother), mashallah inshahallah khayr will call u soon"

(he called him by name lol my uncle was not being formal thats a good sign shows he likes him)

i bought a card to call him on to find out all the glory details, the brother called me he had permission 2 do so, i was very busy so arranged to talk 2 him tomorrow but from what he told me, my uncle and him (both same age) got along great, and my uncle will be coming 2 london in 2 months, and during that time me and the bro should get better aquainted islamically

so your duas guys will be appreciated. inshahallah

[Quest]

hammer lol its call, i was pessimistic in the begining but after istaqkara all that disapeared, thanks for ur reply

I like this Hadith which I read in Purification of the Heart by Hamza Yusuf:

The Prophet(saw) said, "There is a tree in paradise reserved for one whose own faults preoccupied him from considering the faults of others."

Spending time thinking or talking about other people's faults is foolish. Time is short and is better invested in recognizing one's own shortcomings and then working consistently to eradicate them.

-
I agree with what sister Quest had to say, and that we should always do our best to follow the middle path, and avoid going to any extreme.

Remember, always smile :)

i like that hadith to, thanks for ur comments
and ur understanding

[sadf]

if u like him u should marry him straightaway, instead of forming a 2 month haraam relationship outside marriage, u know he's decent, so y u looking for worms in the closet, even if he is after a british passport, doesn't mean he's going to leave you.

[Quest]

passport is not an issue it was just a thought i had because i have seen these things happen b4, u know what they say a smart woman learns from her own mistakes, a wise woman learns from the mistakes of others.

what haram relationship akii? i cant marry him just because it appears my uncle likes him so far.

am getting to know him now, yeah i like him so far, i just have a few more areas i wana cover b4 i jump on the ship.

my uncle is coming in 2 months, the brother can wait untill then
theres no hurry, plus our conversations are limited. (his choice)

just make dua for me,if he is khayr then inshahallah theres nothing 2 worry abt and a wedding will take place, if he isnt then may ALLAH show me.

i put my trust in ALLAH but i have 2 ty my camel, hence why i am not rushing things.

[neelu]

I don't understand the basis for using terminology such as "haraam relationship" in reference to this case. I mean, they spoke some 2 sentences on the phone- WOW :shock: big deal!

[Smiley]

InshaAllah its gonna we alright:) everything looks like there will be a wedding sooooooooooon InshaAllah:)
look around, and SEE that this kind of pure relationships is rare and highly appreciated. usually everything is much more difficult and complicated:( im tellin you from my own experience..so make du'a, thank Allah for everything you've got. for ideal situation MashaAllah and for everything else. Ill pray for you sistuh, InshaAllah after couple of month we'll c a wedding flowers on your avatar:)

[sadf]

Question #60269: She advised him and he came to thank her, and they committed zina

Question :

I am a young woman from a very well-known family. All my life I have been religiously committed and of good character, as all will attest, but I do not know what is the reason that caused me to get to know a young man. I wanted to help him because he had suffered the calamity of his father’s death, and he is responsible for his siblings and his mother, but he went down the path of keeping company with bad people. I advised him and I felt it was my duty to stand beside him and advise him sincerely. Eventually he returned to his studies and gave up those bad friends, and he changed completely. His mother asked him the reason, and he told her. She spoke to me and thanked me for being patient with her son. One day he came for a visit to see me, and I did not know why I did not hesitate. I went to see him, and I felt as if he was my brother. We spent some time together and what happened happened, unfortunately. Now he wants to come and propose marriage to me, but it is impossible. He is three years younger than me, and he is not of the same nationality as me. Now I am pregnant and I want Allaah to conceal my sin and I want to repent. I know that I have done wrong, and you will criticize me severely, but I want to repent and I want a solution.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Perhaps your letter will be a lesson to those who claim that a relationship between a man and a non-mahram woman can be “innocent”, and to those who claim that such relationships are Islamically acceptable if they are for the purpose of giving advice, and to those who want to “water down” the religion to allow relationships between men and women in the name of modernity, and claim that there is no reason why this should not be done, and that woman are able to control themselves… and other such foolish justifications.

It is a lesson for all those who are heedless of the laws of Allaah and pay no attention to the warning of our Lord, may He blessed and exalted, against following in the footsteps of the shaytaan, and they continue to take these matters lightly until they find themselves in deep trouble. You were heedless with regard to this young man and you went ahead and spoke with him and advised him, then you agreed to receive him in your house, then you agreed to be alone with him, then the Shaytaan made attractive to you the idea that he was like your brother, then what? Then you committed zina in the same meeting and in your house, with one whom the shaytaan made you think was like your brother! Which was the first step of the shaytaan? It was speaking to this non-mahram man, then the other steps of the shaytaan came one after another until you committed this most abhorrent of sins. Hence we can see the wisdom in the words of Allaah, may He be exalted (interpretation of the meaning):

“And come not near to unlawful sex. Verily, it is a Faahishah (i.e. anything that transgresses its limits: a great sin), and an evil way (that leads one to hell unless Allaah Forgives him)”

[al-Isra’ 17:32]

Allaah did not only forbid zina itself, rather He forbade coming near to it. The aim here is to forbid the things that lead to it. We ask Allaah to conceal your sin and to forgive you, and to help you to repent sincerely.

Secondly:

There is no doubt that zina is a grave sin, and it is one of the major sins. Hence the punishment for it is one that points to the seriousness of this sin and the abhorrence with which it is regarded in sharee’ah and by wisdom and common sense.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Allaah ordained punishment for zina that differs from the punishment for other crimes in three ways:

1 – Execution in the most unpleasant form; when the punishment is reduced, it still combines the physical punishment of flogging with the emotional punishment of banishment.

2 – He forbade people when carrying out the punishment on the adulterers, to feel pity for them that would prevent them from carrying out the punishment. By His mercy towards them He prescribed this punishment, and He is more merciful to them than you, but His mercy did not prevent Him from ordaining this punishment, so your pity should not prevent you from carrying out His command…

3 – He enjoined that their punishment be carried out in the presence of some of the believers; it should not be done in isolation where no one can see them. That is more effective in serving the purpose of the punishment, and serves as a deterrent. End quote.

Al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, p. 144, 115

Thirdly:

Although this sin is so serious and abhorrent, Allaah has opened the door of repentance to those who commit it, and He has promised that if they are sincere in their repentance, He will turn their bad deeds into good deeds.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked:

What should the person who has committed zina do in order to rid himself of the effects of that action of his?

He replied:

Zina is one of the most serious of haraam actions and the worst of major sins. Allaah warns the mushrikeen, murderers and adulterers of multiple punishments on the Day of Resurrection, and of eternal humiliation and torment, because of the seriousness and abhorrence of their crimes, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah, nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse — and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;

70. Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds”

[al-Furqaan 25:68-70]

The one who has fallen into such sin has to repent to Allaah sincerely, and follow that with sincere belief and righteous deeds. Repentance is sincere if the penitent gives up the sin, regrets what has happened in the past and resolves never to go back to it, out of fear of Allaah and awe of Him, hoping for His reward and fearing His punishment. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous good deeds, and then remains constant in doing them (till his death)”

[Ta-Ha 20:82]

Every Muslim man and Muslim woman must beware of this great evil and the things that lead to it, and hasten to repent from whatever is already past. Allaah will accept the repentance of those who are sincere and forgive them.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 9/442

Fourthly:

It is not permissible for two people who have committed zina to get married except after having repented sincerely, because Allaah has forbidden that to the believers:

“The adulterer — fornicator marries not but an adulteress — fornicatress or a Mushrikah; and the adulteress –fornicatress, none marries her except an adulterer — fornicater or a Mushrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely, he is either an adulterer — fornicator, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater). And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer — fornicator, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islamic Monotheism)”

[al-Noor 24:3]

We have already explained the ruling on this issue in the answer to questions no. 14381, 22448, 11195.

Fifthly:

If the soul has been breathed into the foetus, then aborting it would be another crime in addition to zina. We have explained the ruling on this issue in the answer to questions no. 13317, 11195 and 40269.

Sixthly:

The solution to your problem is to inform wise people among your family about your situation. The one who transgresses the laws of Allaah must inevitably face the consequences of his sin, in many cases. The family has to stand with their daughter sooner rather than later. Even if she aborts the foetus before the soul has been breathed into it, she is no longer regarded as a virgin, and this will also cause some problems at the time of marriage. Whatever the case, they have to solve their daughter’s problem, for she has repented and regretted her sin, and “the one who repents from sin is like one who has not sinned at all” – narrated by Ibn Maajah, 4250; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Targheeb, 3145. Even if she does not commit any sin after she repents, her sin has serious repercussions which must be dealt with before news of it becomes widespread and affects the family as a whole. The solution is not to marry her to that zaani before he repents, because marriage to a zaani is haraam, as stated above. But if they both repent, there is nothing wrong with them getting married in sha Allaah.

It is not permissible for her to marry anyone else until her womb is emptied, which is when she gives birth. The evidence for that is the report narrated by Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “Do not have intercourse with a pregnant woman until she gives birth, or with one who is not pregnant until she has menstruated once.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2157. al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said in al-Talkhees al-Habeer (1/171,172): Its isnaad is hasan.

In order to understand the greatness of Allaah’s bounty in accepting His slaves’ repentance and to know that He accepts the repentance of the penitent no matter how great and how many their sins, please see the answers to the questions no. 624, 13990, 47834, 23485 and 20983

And Allaah knows best.

[Ebony]

I like this Hadith which I read in Purification of the Heart by Hamza Yusuf:

The Prophet(saw) said, "There is a tree in paradise reserved for one whose own faults preoccupied him from considering the faults of others."

Spending time thinking or talking about other people's faults is foolish. Time is short and is better invested in recognizing one's own shortcomings and then working consistently to eradicate them.

-
I agree with what sister Quest had to say, and that we should always do our best to follow the middle path, and avoid going to any extreme.

Remember, always smile :)

Isn't that just a wonderful book? I love it! :)

[neelu]

Question #60269: She advised him and he came to thank her, and they committed zina


Wrong thread. Perhaps this q & a should've been pasted on that thread about the guy who committed zina and was afraid that the girl might be pregnant. This q & a has no relevance here.

[Quest]

Wrong thread. Perhaps this q & a should've been pasted on that thread about the guy who committed zina and was afraid that the girl might be pregnant. This q & a has no relevance here.

lol, i actually think it does, u never know what shaytan could whisper, and though i personaly fear getting close to zina, i appreciate this fatwa being presented here as it serves as a good purpose, verily ALLAH has said that which means

"Then remind men incase the reminder profits him, this reminder will be recieved by he who fears ALLAH and avoided by the wretched one"

jazzakallah khayr sadf for your effort.

[Hekmaa]

If we go by the book then the brother should not have approached you.

However he didnt know your name, or your wali so he probably would never have seen you again so he took the chance from its forehead. He has done nothing wrong, by approaching you like that, but is as far as it should go between you to. The wali needs to get involved to take it further.

Few things to point out; you were both in public, he dealt directly with the matter and was to the point, no flirting etc. This all gives him credit.

It is quiet simple sister, get your uncle involved. Just like you said it to us. if it would make it easy Print that page, and let your uncle read it. It is best to be up front and honest about these things.

You should not recieve calls from the brother as that is considered private, like are emails, letters etc, which is against Islam. That will also safe guard you from false emotional attachments, which come into play once we see human charms in play.

You said you felt good about him from how he presented himself, and you felt an awra of goodness and your istikhara was good. So what are you waiting for?

My sister, that is the best assurance you can have, nothing nor any one can assure you of anything more. You have good signs from Allah follow them, and apply the sunnah. That is get your wali to do a back ground check on the brother.

Khalas, Fa itha azamta fa tawakal allallah,

[wazza]

my sister has had the same problem as you. when shopping in town some asylum seekers/refugees approach her saying aslam and whether she was married etc. her friends have encountered similar approaches. it appears they want to marry a british citizen in order to stay here

[Quest]

wazza sorry bro but i dont see how i have the same problem as your sister and her friends regarding this issue, yeah i thought the typical passport plot, but i mentioned already i did my check up and the bro is not after it

even if he was so ? loool as good in diin and as handsome as he is i would give it to him (just kidding) istaqfurulaah i can be a lil 2 liberal with my tongue at times, hope u can take a joke!

but yeah i understand what u mean, i had similar problems to ur sisters in the past, i just disagree that this situation is like them.

If we go by the book then the brother should not have approached you.

However he didnt know your name, or your wali so he probably would never have seen you again so he took the chance from its forehead. He has done nothing wrong, by approaching you like that, but is as far as it should go between you to. The wali needs to get involved to take it further.

Few things to point out; you were both in public, he dealt directly with the matter and was to the point, no flirting etc. This all gives him credit.

It is quiet simple sister, get your uncle involved. Just like you said it to us. if it would make it easy Print that page, and let your uncle read it. It is best to be up front and honest about these things.

You should not recieve calls from the brother as that is