So can Islam change or not?

[nicegrrl]

Some people say Islam is flexible and that as technology drives change in society, the specifics of the rules should change.

And some people say that Quran means what it says. You cant cross things out and add foot notes because society is doing something that the Quran doesnt specify.

So, who is right?

Some cases of this would be like polygamy. Islam says yes (sort of), the west says no. Or at least modern society wouldnt see a reason why women couldnt marry 4 husbands as well. And unlike Mohammud's time, in these days paternity tests can actually prove who a child's father is beyond doubt so that isnt a reason for a women not to have multiple partners anymore.

Or how about physically punishing people for homosexuality? You know, there are public gay meeting places where men fornicate with other men and there are definitely 4 witnesses that see it. Or there are men that are openly gay and there are any number of people that know this. So, can you whip them?

or death for apostasy? Most say this was supposed to have a moratorium on it anyways but as the recent case in Afghanistan shows, not everyone believes that.

What's the verdict?

[Guardian Hijab]

Hey nicegrrl, wassssssssssssssssssssup. And welcome to this hip happenin pad I like to call ummah.net/forum

Anywho, in regards to your question, i'll answer to the best of my ability and inshAllah if I made any errors my homies here will correct me.

Dig it.

Islam does not change. It doesn't need too. That's one main reason why it's actually what God decreed for us. We ain't Christian or Jewish homegirl (Thank the Good Lord)

You can't cross things out, but you can add footnotes. Footnotes are to better explain what the ayat means. It's usually found in a Quran that has been translated. Arabic is a very complex and beautiful language.

Do a search through the forum about why men can have 4 wives. Trust me the explanation is pretty simple. Womyn needed men to support them, so men were allowed to marry more than one. Now-a-days anyone rarely practices it in the Western World since, well, no one needs to, but if they want to. More power to them.

And ew, imagine needing to have a paternity test everytime you have a child. Plus one man is enough headache for one girl ;).

The act of homosexuality is punished under Shariah. If any countries or states had the guts to practise it, then they'd be punished.

Converting out of Islam is one thing, spreading false lies about it is another. Again do a search.

Wells thats my verdict, on the next Peoples Court.

"Her bestfriend crashed her car, and now she refuses to pay for it"

[nicegrrl]

--Converting out of Islam is one thing, spreading false lies about it is another. Again do a search.
--

Which is what? Can one spread false lies about Islam?

I believe I can spread false lies about every other ideology so why not. I live in new england, but I can say that democracy dooms a society or that wicca is the truest idea ever known. I can say anything basically- I just cant slander a living individual.

--Do a search through the forum about why men can have 4 wives. Trust me the explanation is pretty simple. Womyn needed men to support them, so men were allowed to marry more than one. Now-a-days anyone rarely practices it in the Western World since, well, no one needs to, but if they want to. More power to them.--

No, I belive it only specifies that a man can have 4 wives if the male population is decimated by war in which case he can marry widows and orphans if he can treat them equally.


"If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.* (The Noble Quran, 4:3)"*


the verse was made after the muslim male population was greatly outnumbered by girls and women after a war. Nothing in the Quran states that polygamy is sanctioned in peace times or when the male/female ratio is 1:1.

--Islam does not change. It doesn't need too. That's one main reason why it's actually what God decreed for us. We ain't Christian or Jewish homegirl (Thank the Good Lord)--

But what does this mean? Islam does not change therefore the laws always stay the same? Like should women still inherit half or are the reasons for that division outdated?

[Guardian Hijab]

If you convert, for the sole purpose of insulting and spreading lies about Islam. You're sentenced to death. I know, there seems to be alot of death sentences in Islam, but see in Islam it's more like a 'very long time out'.

....and nothing in that ayat says that men can't take more than one wife if it is at a ratio of 1:1. And sis, there are tons of places in this world where the ratio is 1:4, and up. Especially in Sub-Saharan Africa due to AIDS and Civil War.

Yep, only half the estate. But did you know that the sons must use his share to support the ENTIRE family? And she can buy all the bling she wants with no conditions?

[nicegrrl]

--If you convert, for the sole purpose of insulting and spreading lies about Islam. You're sentenced to death. I know, there seems to be alot of death sentences in Islam, but see in Islam it's more like a 'very long time out'.
--

That is interesting. "death is not so bad"

--....and nothing in that ayat says that men can't take more than one wife if it is at a ratio of 1:1. And sis, there are tons of places in this world where the ratio is 1:4, and up. Especially in Sub-Saharan Africa due to AIDS and Civil War.--

Civil war, yes. AIDS, no. The AIDS rate in places where it is prevalent is not that much higher in men. It is in places like the US where AIDS is primarily a disease of gay men and people with risky lifestyles (drugs).

It doesnt say the ratio has to be 1:1, but it implies that the purpose of polygamy is to take care of women when there is an excess of them compared to men that can support them due to war or some such disaster.

--Yep, only half the estate. But did you know that the sons must use his share to support the ENTIRE family? And she can buy all the bling she wants with no conditions?--

That would have been the reason for the rule, but in our society 2 things are different. one is that people dont depend on inheritances for sustainance and support unless you are extremely wealthy. The other is that our economy doesnt resemble the economy of 7th century Arabia which was still partially nomadic. In our economy, it isnt difficult for a woman to make as much money as a man and therefore a man does not need to bear that much of the financial support burden. In Mohammad's time, hardly any women could have made the same money as a man considering that many jobs were based on heavy manual labor, nearly everyone in public had to be able to defend themselves against bandits etc., there was no birth control so women always had young children.

But todays world is nothing like this, so why keep a rule that was made for a completely different economy? We cant make our society go back to a time when job opportunities depend on ability for manual labor. We cant uninvent birth control.

[Guardian Hijab]

For believing people, yeah death isn't so bad. It's just a path you need to take to reach your original home.

AIDS no? What I meant was AIDS is killing more men then womyn in Sub-Saharan Africa, thats why there is more womyn than men there.

The ayat does say men should take care of their wives, but again, not because of war or some disaster. If a man can convince four womyn to marry him, and those four womyn are fine with it. Then girl, let it be...

I don't understand why work has to do with inheriting money, but womyn can spend their half on themselves, and men have to use their to support the family. If anything this is a gift from Allah for womyn!

Again, why does the economy have to do with inheritance. This day and age, we still give and recieve people an inheritance.

[Arsalan]

Salaam

NO

Its islam or the highway, my dear.