View Full Version : Hitting The Wife..
ur_yusra
25-04-06, 05:34 PM
What is the Islamic ruling on disciplining the wife..
When does the need arise to hit her.. is it islamically allowed to inflict pain on her in any circumstance..??
Can the wife obtain khula on the basis that she has been physically hurt by her husband??
Brothers where do you draw the line??
When does wife disciplining become necessary??
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 05:41 PM
http://www.humanities-interactive.org/cultures/nile/400/ex041_10d.jpg
:rotfl: :rotfl:
When she has a panic attack maybe...?
Maybe it is one of those, when youre in the moment, you will know... :eek:
Sis full answer in this link from islam qa...have a look...
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=41199&dgn=4
but the most relevant bits I thought....
And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the words of Allaah. Your right over them is that they should not allow anyone to sit on your furniture whom you dislike; if they do that then hit them but not in a harsh manner. And their right over you is that you should provide for them and clothe them on a reasonable basis.” Narrated by Muslim, 1218.
What is meant by “they should not allow anyone to sit on your furniture whom you dislike” is that they should not allow anyone whom you dislike to enter your houses, whether the person disliked is a man or a woman, or any of the woman’s mahrams [close relatives to whom marriage is forbidden]. The prohibition includes all of them. From the words of al-Nawawi. The hadeeth may be understood as meaning that a man has the right to hit his wife, in a manner that is not harsh and does not cause injury if if there is a reason for that, such as her going against his wishes or disobeying him.
This is like the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great” [al-Nisa’ 4:34]
If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her. Hitting is subject to the condition that it should not be harsh or cause injury. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.
‘Ata’ said: I said to Ibn ‘Abbaas, what is the kind of hitting that is not harsh? He said, Hitting with a siwaak and the like. [A siwaak is a small stick or twig used for cleaning the teeth - Translator]
The purpose behind this is not to hurt or humiliate the woman, rather it is intended to make her realize that she has transgressed against her husband’s rights, and that her husband has the right to set her straight and discipline her.
And Allaah knows best.
ur_yusra
25-04-06, 05:53 PM
JazakaAllah khere sister Nawar..
I think the bit about not causing pain is the key point...
:up:
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 05:54 PM
end of thread???? :p
ur_yusra
25-04-06, 05:56 PM
end of thread???? :p
We'll see.. :p
I still want to knw when brothers would feel the need to :torture:
JazakaAllah khere sister Nawar..
I think the bit about not causing pain is the key point...
:up:
Barakallahfi...:inlove:..;)
Yeh so I mean if he crosses this clearly outlined boundry...obviously it is a serious issue because he is not allowed to hit you to the extent where it causes you pain, bruising injury etc....
BACK TO WORK :torture:
weltburger
25-04-06, 06:02 PM
What is the Islamic ruling on disciplining the wife..
When does the need arise to hit her.. is it islamically allowed to inflict pain on her in any circumstance..??
Can the wife obtain khula on the basis that she has been physically hurt by her husband??
Brothers where do you draw the line??
When does wife disciplining become necessary??
Disciplining of another, regardless if it be your wife or not has nothing to do with Religion.
It is a matter of controlling another's actions according to your thought's and views.
Why should anyone feel they have the right to discipline another?
Even if another's actions are found to be contrary to your religious teachings, this does not give anyone the right to force their beliefs upon another human-being.
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 06:04 PM
Barakallahfi...:inlove:..;)
Yeh so I mean if he crosses this clearly outlined boundry...obviously it is a serious issue because he is not allowed to hit you to the extent where it causes you pain, bruising injury etc....
BACK TO WORK :torture:
Aye well maybe if the wife didnt do his head in, in the first place it wudnt lead to tht :p :p tut tut tryna make urselfs outta to be innocent at any cost :p
okie seriously, the wife wud have to do summat REALLY REALLY bang out of order to push the husband to make him pick up the miswaak and go....TAP!
Their are many other avenues which should be used in order to show ur displeasure to ur wife, ie silent treatment, stop sharing the bed with her and so on. Everyone has different temperaments..the wifes job is to understand the hubbies temperament and try not to do anything which may displease him..maybe once by accident but if she knows it ticks him off..why persist??
secondly..men shudnt use excessive force on the wife, it will only toughen her up and make her more disrespectful towards you, do ur head in even more and allah forbid, may even turn her attention towards other men :(
once you guys get married then you will look back at your naivety and your:inlove: :inlove: :love: world
when reality hits
bro emelianenko sounds ready for marriage,mashaallah:)
follow his advice,youll need it
women have caused wars in families,brothers to stop talking for life,male suicides
they need to be....well looked after:D
no beatings though ..
This issue about hitting one's wife is something I find very hard to understand.
I believe it is no longer permissible for a husband to hit a wife.
The command came to a harsh and barbaric society where women were treated badly. Allah sought to restrain the men from beating their wives - knowing they would not change over night!
I don't believe for one minute that Allah wants any man to hit his wife.
It was allowed at the time because it was a DIFFERENT society and hitting your wife would get the bring about the desired result.
Today it would only cause humiliation and resentment.
In fact it is ludicrous to think that - after talking and after separation - asking her to stand still while you tap her with a Miswak would actually make her say "Hmmmm yes, now I see. When u talked to me and seperated from my bed I did not understand - but now you have tapped me lightly on my shoulder it all makes sense!"
Isn't there anyone who has the honesty to stand up and say the whole thing is utterly absurd!!!!????
I think we all agree with bro emel...alhumdulliah there are many steps before the miswak comes out, and the problem is rectified inshallah, Ive heard of only very rare cases where the miswak is brought out for a tap..
But my concern relates more specifically to serious cases...I have known and heard of.....women who eventually become the victim of domestic violence and she doesnt know what to do...obvisouly THIS is wrong and completely not from Islam...
and I think Yusra is referring to divorce in these types of cases....
the wife wud have to do summat REALLY REALLY bang out of order to push the husband to make him pick up the miswaak and go....TAP!
OH really!
Like what?
You'd be surprised to hear some of the reasons given by the scholars of the past then!!!! LOL...
the wifes job is to understand the hubbies temperament and try not to do anything which may displease him
And the husband's job is the same right?
Or doesn't he have to understand her?
Or her PMT moods etc...?
And if she "Fears rebellion" from him - can she hit him with a Miswak?
men shudnt use excessive force on the wife
Oh thank you! Nice of you to conceed that!
, it will only toughen her up
What?????
Toughen her up?
You don't want to use EXCESSIVE force so as not to TOUGHEN HER UP?????
By toughen up - do you mean leave her bleeding and battered on the floor?????
may even turn her attention towards other men :(
U mean she might want to divorce her abuser and marry a man who will treat her kindly - God forbid!
:rolleyes:
peace ,whats youre husband say and do???
I think we all agree with bro emel...alhumdulliah there are many steps before the miswak comes out, and the problem is rectified inshallah, Ive heard of only very rare cases where the miswak is brought out for a tap..
But my concern relates more specifically to serious cases...I have known and heard of.....women who eventually become the victim of domestic violence and she doesnt know what to do...obvisouly THIS is wrong and completely not from Islam...
and I think Yusra is referring to divorce in these types of cases....
Does everyone agree with Emelianenko?
How did you know that?
Is it surprising that women are treated badly by some men in Muslim countries (and here)????
When the Qur'an says it's OK to hit your wife.
Saying it should be light or with a Miswak is fine - but the idots who beat their wife don't worry about that.
They beat them for the slightest thing - not cooking their food properly or not finishing the cleaning etc...
The nice ones who know that it should be light or with a miswak don't ever get to such a situation coz they treat their wife well!
This is why I say we must review our understanding of Qur'an is some matters - as it leads to gross distortions in our day and age.
The relationship between men and women is different - it has changed.
Hitting your wife is neither acceptable nor will bring any desired result!
Al-Irhaab
25-04-06, 07:20 PM
This issue about hitting one's wife is something I find very hard to understand.
I believe it is no longer permissible for a husband to hit a wife.
The command came to a harsh and barbaric society where women were treated badly. Allah sought to restrain the men from beating their wives - knowing they would not change over night!
I don't believe for one minute that Allah wants any man to hit his wife.
It was allowed at the time because it was a DIFFERENT society and hitting your wife would get the bring about the desired result.
Today it would only cause humiliation and resentment.
In fact it is ludicrous to think that - after talking and after separation - asking her to stand still while you tap her with a Miswak would actually make her say "Hmmmm yes, now I see. When u talked to me and seperated from my bed I did not understand - but now you have tapped me lightly on my shoulder it all makes sense!"
Isn't there anyone who has the honesty to stand up and say the whole thing is utterly absurd!!!!????
well only a kaafir would say allah (SwT) law is not applicable today ... i mean allah (swT) only revealed the quran for the entire mankind up to the day of judgment... :rolleyes:
peace ,whats youre husband say and do???
I'm a man!
A 47 year old married man with 4 Kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Al-Fateh
25-04-06, 07:21 PM
œHow does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” Considering the rates of domestic violence all over the world, this question, which was asked by the Prophet Muhammad more than 1400 years ago, is applicable today to all people of all faiths and cultures.
Despite the universality of domestic violence, Muslim men involved in wife-abuse have attracted more attention than others. Horrific stories of husbands beating their wives while claiming that the Qur’an gives them the right to do so are highlighted in the media. At the same time, Muslims assert that Islam honors and respects women, giving them rights that promote and preserve their human dignity.
The crux of the matter lies in the need for the distinction between Islam and the behavior of some Muslims. Each and every Muslim has rather unfairly been caste as a representative of his or her faith, and his or her behavior is immediately a reflection of Islam, not of the Muslim as a human individual.
This special file aims at clarifying the position Islam takes regarding wife-beating. Although the material presented, which is compiled from various IslamOnline.net pages, concentrates on the very specific issue of wife-beating, it is essential to point out that Islam has extensively elaborated on the rights of women at all times and in totality.
This special file aims at clarifying the position Islam takes regarding wife-beating. Although the material presented, which is compiled from various IslamOnline.net pages, concentrates on the very specific issue of wife-beating, it is essential to point out that Islam has extensively elaborated on the rights of women at all times and in totality.
Oh good a special file clarifying the position Islam takes on wife-beating....
:1popcorn:
Where is it?
Al-Fateh
25-04-06, 07:52 PM
sorry
there u go
http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1839
Does everyone agree with Emelianenko?
How did you know that?
Is it surprising that women are treated badly by some men in Muslim countries (and here)????
When the Qur'an says it's OK to hit your wife.
Saying it should be light or with a Miswak is fine - but the idots who beat their wife don't worry about that.
They beat them for the slightest thing - not cooking their food properly or not finishing the cleaning etc...
The nice ones who know that it should be light or with a miswak don't ever get to such a situation coz they treat their wife well!
This is why I say we must review our understanding of Qur'an is some matters - as it leads to gross distortions in our day and age.
The relationship between men and women is different - it has changed.
Hitting your wife is neither acceptable nor will bring any desired result!
Well emel said that the hitting with miswak is a last resort, and the issues between the man and women are likely to be resolved before then. Fair enough, I thought most would agree....
I dont understand when you say 'the ayat does not apply today'....this type of thinking is what has lead to confusion and divisions in our community. If everyone stopped saying 'this and that doesnt apply, but that does, that doesnt, oh but that does...' maybe everyone wouldnt be so confused. The ayats apply 1400 yrs ago, as they do today. Women who dont wear hijaab use exactly that argument 'oh it doesnt apply today'...and thats just ridiculous.
1400 yrs ago the ayat meant 'hit lightly' with a miswak and do not cause pain/bruising, and today, it means exactly the same thing. Islam did not permit beating of the wife 1400 yrs ago, it doesnt permit it today.
So saying we need to 'review our understanding of the quraan or review what applies today and what doesnt' is a waste of time, because it all applies today, it is a complete book, a guidance on how to live our lives. We should really be focussing out attentions on reviewing the understanding of the jahil men who do not understand the meaning of the ayat and how to treat their women, and really educate these people about Islam.
The Qur'aan and its laws do not need to change, people need to change and become knowledgable in how to live their lives according to it.
HussaynKhariq
25-04-06, 08:22 PM
What Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala tells us to do is the right thing to do and is applicable for ever. Had Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala told us to drive nails into our wives heads if they disobeyed us, that would have been correct thing to do. Nothing at all which Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala orders can be injustice. If Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala threw us all into hellfire for the tiniest of sins that wouldn't be injustice. Whatever Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala orders does have a wisdom behind it, but if we don't understand the wisdom behind a particular order of Allah, that does not matter because we're dealing with a higher wisdom here. We don't feel any moral qualms in crushing an ant because it's a highly inferior life form, it is the same way with us and Allah. Every human is more insignificant before Allah than an ant is to a human.
well sed...
i telll u what...
id rather a man hit the woman..than the woman being a husband beater they can be more violent..lol..
okay im gna spk on behalf of my bro...
hed probz slap...and shake her about but thats it...:D what? dont look at me like that...its true..:rolleyes:
as for us girls...hmm wud u girls eva hit ure hubbys? i mean..its common where i live....and trust me when women get violent they really do..and they end up klling too..:rubeyes:
People the controversey about this whole wife beating issue, comes to surface simply because in my opinion a few folks blow the whole thing out of proportion, the west use the verse abt beating in surah nisa to make islam look cruel, some wack muslim men use it to justify domestic abuse. It is an unfair criticism. .
In the west, anything to do with the word BEAT brings to mind cruel maltreatment. so it makes sense why they raise their eyebrows when they see that verse in sura nisa.
But with full knowledge of Islam from Quran and hadith we will see the reality is a lot different then some people like to think, The totality of an issue must be put into consideration before passing ultimate judgement
Contray to public belief ISLAM came to end domestic abuse.
Women beating is a problem which exists in most societies, whether u live in the valley, the city, hillside or dessert. Sura 4 is to be a solution to the problem of beating on women, any one can say STOP or DON’T do it period. But honestly is it effective?
We have so many laws forbidding it in the west, but how come such abuse is on the increase?
The word Beat, will automaticaly make us think in one direction, the direction which basically defines beat as we all know it in the English language,
The verse in question is probably the most controversial.
People’s minds their carnal minds automatically make them assume the beating mentioned in the quran is the same beating of say the drunk dead beat who lashes out on his poor wife.
The beating mentioned in the surah, is not even equivalent to the definition of beating which springs to mind. The beating mentioned in the verse is to be used as a last result, and with a condition, a condition whereby pain or harm is not inflicted upon the wife.
When we have a person whom is hysterical and all up in your face, through instant reaction alone you would see one resort to slapping that person, this slap is to encourage that they snap out of their state. We have seen it in movies, through friends and may have even done it once or twice. We have also seen the result, the person whom got slapped automatically calmed down.
Society has no problem with such cases but base great emphasis on the Quranic verse concerning this issue of beating. Beating in this sense bearing in mind the conditions that come with it, is not intended to inflict a physical pain on the woman but rather a psychological displeasure imparting a lesson in which the merited outcome is a change of attitude and one coming back to their senses.
Islam says the discomfort felt by the woman in regards to this beating should be similar to one being hit with a feather or a miswak.
This “beating” is not so the husband can lash his anger out on his wife,
the conditions attached to what this beating consists of removes the whole concept of beat, its fair to say that the word is a misnomer. For Islam says he cannot, strike her in the face, bruise her body, harm her or inflict pain upon her. If u remove these can not’s from what we consider beating to be. What would u call it?
According to ISLAM, you can ‘beat’ the women when u see disloyalty or ill conduct on her part, so long as you don’t strike her face, bruise her, harm her, and inflict pain upon her. Remove all of these from the word beat as we understand it, can we honestly still call it beat?
What’s beating with all these conditions? Does a word exist in the English language, which defines all these conditions combined accurately? Is it fair to say the word BEAT as interperated in the English language, in accordance to Islam regarding women is a misnomer? It is important that we remember these conditions that come with beating in Islam especially women. When ever we read sura 4.
Is it really possible to beat a woman without harming bruising or inflicting pain upon her? If yes then whatever you did was not really beating now was it? If no, and it is impossible to beat someone under all those conditions, then it substantiates for what Islam says when it says,it came to put an end to domestic abuse not encourage it.
”. Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them” Quran 2:231
“O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness…” Quran 4:19
“But if they return to obedience seek not against them means (of annoyance): for ALLAH is most high, great (above you all” Quran 4:34
The above verse shows that the husband cannot pick a bone with his wife by digging up old skeletons. With the intent to annoy mock or ridicule her.
Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri “I went to the Apostle of Allah PBUH and asked him: what do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself and do not beat them and do not revile them”
. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance
Quest
I'm a man!
A 47 year old married man with 4 Kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mashaallah please enlighten us as to how youve handled difficult situations,im 39 with 4 kids,:)
well sed...
i telll u what...
id rather a man hit the woman..than the woman being a husband beater they can be more violent..lol..
okay im gna spk on behalf of my bro...
hed probz slap...and shake her about but thats it...:D what? dont look at me like that...its true..:rolleyes:
as for us girls...hmm wud u girls eva hit ure hubbys? i mean..its common where i live....and trust me when women get violent they really do..and they end up klling too..:rubeyes:
I know of a woman who killed her husband :| and then when she was released from jail....she went and shot dead his brother :smack:
Anyway...I would never beat my hubby :|
some of what i am reading here is disturbing, without singling anyone out, understand what u are saying before u say it, and move with evidence we are ahlul daleel
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 09:36 PM
Isn't there anyone who has the honesty to stand up and say the whole thing is utterly absurd!!!!????
All those who along with peace, believe that ALLAH swt, did not kno what was to happen, 1400 odd years after the prophet saw, but yet Allah still put these verses in their and believe Allah swt got it wrong so we should follow sheik ul hadith Mufti Peace and hereby declare this whole situation of what ALLAH has mentioned in the Quran as ABSURD...please rise :rolleyes:
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 09:55 PM
OH really!
Like what?
You'd be surprised to hear some of the reasons given by the scholars of the past then!!!! LOL... Like maybe the MRS went and commited Zina, many things which could push someone over their limits.
And the husband's job is the same right?
Or doesn't he have to understand her?
Or her PMT moods etc...?
And if she "Fears rebellion" from him - can she hit him with a Miswak?
Aye the Husbands job is to also understand his wifes temperaments and her PMT moods and so on. He should also adop the method used by Rasulullah saw to live a happily married life for he was the best of all examples and came for the guidance of manking, this means adopting actions such as helpin in the house and so on. Maybe if he did this the whole issue of the wife displeasing him to his limits may never even arise inshaAllah.
What?????
Toughen her up?
You don't want to use EXCESSIVE force so as not to TOUGHEN HER UP?????
By toughen up - do you mean leave her bleeding and battered on the floor?????
By toughen her up i meant, tht some women who take beatings and never consult ppl on this issue of domestic violence and tackle this problem just see it as part of their relationship and decide to take the beatings and remained hushed up..thts what i meant. :rolleyes:
U mean she might want to divorce her abuser and marry a man who will treat her kindly - God forbid!
:rolleyes:
U said ur 47?? :rubeyes: and a teacher? :rubeyes: u sure? :rolleyes:
As i said..not all women have the courage within them to tackle such problems..and live their married life in silence and just tolerate the beatings, but obviously in their heart will have resentment for their husband and aye maybe take liking to other men and so on.
Ok now Peace, U said 1400 odd yrs ago ppl were aggressive and so on which is why Allah sent such verses down on how to handle the situation. Today their is no domestic violence? erm look around all over the world..people beating their wifes black and blue..and u say such a problem doesnt exist in our society? Nabi saw taught us many ways to tackle such situations, and in cases where the "men" dont take no heed of the warnings of beating their wife black and blue then aye Allah swt has permitted Talaq.
The Quran and the Sunnah are till the day of Judgment. Allah swt has stated to this effect that their are things which may seem good to us but in reality is not..and some which may seem not good for us but in in actual fact they are better for us. Our job is to inculcate the deen as Nabi saw showed us. Every condition this Ummah faces the prophet saw faced it also but amplified on a larger scale. He pbuh showed us how to handle it..we should do it like that. If the prophet pbuh did not go through it then he has prophesised it and given us the solution ie dajjal, etc.
This deen is not for our Nafs, pick the aspects we find easy and leave the ones our tiny puny minds cant comprehend. Allah swt has stated to this effect tht today indeed he has perfected our religion and named it Islam.
And who is saying tapping with a miswaak has to be resorted to immediately? If both husband and wife learnt how Islam has taught them to conduct a marriage then inshaAllah such situations will not frequently arise.
Al-Fateh
25-04-06, 10:09 PM
take the prophet as an example
he has never beaten his wife, and thats the example we need to go by
it cannot be more simple
omar are u serious lol? you weirdo:rolleyes: if u do that to ur poor wife i would advice her to chuck electrical appliances in ur bath tub whilst u were in it!!
islamically ofcourse u can not wave around knives like a mad man, shaytan is on the tip of that knive.
islamically if u get that hot and bothered u are required to seek refuge in ALLAH from shaytan, make wadu, leave the room.
if u are still bothered go throw around plates, u will feel a whole lot better, and u get to annoy her (that is if u break her fav china set)
umm_huraiyrah
25-04-06, 10:15 PM
Barakallahfi...:inlove:..;)
Yeh so I mean if he crosses this clearly outlined boundry...obviously it is a serious issue because he is not allowed to hit you to the extent where it causes you pain, bruising injury etc....
BACK TO WORK :torture:
How does one hit without causing pain???? Just a curious question.
Sister dana
Personally I don't care for any man to hit me but settle the matter with gentle words ;)
umm_huraiyrah
25-04-06, 10:18 PM
take the prophet as an example
he has never beaten his wife, and thats the example we need to go by
it cannot be more simple
Great Example Akhi!!
SisterDana
peace
Islam does not say abuse and harm ur wives.
Islam does not give muslim men the right to knock them silly
Islam is real and caters to the reality
Muslim men for whatever reason even if the wive comitted zina are not allowed to knock them silly, of course the man will be angered (say he caught her in bed) etc
what the man is allowed to do is beat her so long as he
*does not strike her face
*bruise her body
*inflict pain upon her
now take away these conditions from the word beat as we understand it in english, can u honestly tell me what he did was beat her?
the english word beat is not an accurate definition of the beat the quran is on about, my question to ummah members is is there a word which describes beat in accordance to the islamic sense of the word which contain the so longs above?
Why dont we use...tap, instead of hit...
:)
dana my point exactly how can u hit (beat) women without inflicting PAIN
what we have to realise is the english word BEAT is not an accurate definition of beat in the islamic sense
what the man is allowed to do is beat the wife he fears ill conduct from so long as he
*does not strike her face
*bruise her body
*inflict pain upon her
take away the above so longs, he did not beat her now did he?
the problem is not what ISLAM SAYS the problem is how we understand what islam says using western mind sets.
there is no english word which defines islamic beating along with its conditions, so naturally we use beat, when we here beat we automatically think of cruel maltreatment.
as a result the above conditions * * * are forgotton.
Al-Fateh
25-04-06, 10:25 PM
Etiquette between Spouses
A Muslim recognizes that there are some common etiquette between a husband and wife. These are the rights that each one has upon the other. This is based on Allah's statement: "And they (women), have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, But men have a degree (of responsibility) over them." (Holy Qur'an, 2:228)
This noble Verse makes it clear that each spouse has rights over the other. However, the Verse specifically mentions the man as having an additional degree of rights with respect to special rights.
Allah's Messenger (SAWS) said on the occasion of the farewell Hajj: "Verily, you have rights over your wives and your wives have rights over you." (Abu Dawud)
Some of these rights are common between the two spouses while others are specific for one of the spouses. As for the common rights, they are the following:
1. Loyalty and honesty: That is, it is obligatory upon each spouse to be truthful and honest with respect to the other. One does not cheat the other in any way, big or small. The two spouses are like two partners. Therefore, there must be trust, sincerity, honesty and truthfulness between them concerning every matter of their lives, both private and public.
2. Love and mercy: Each one of them should have as much love and mercy as he can for the other. This should be something common between them for all of their lives. In this way, they fulfill Allah's words: "And among His signs is this, that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy." (Holy qur'an, 30:21)
This would also be in fulfillment of the Prophet's words: "The one who is not merciful will not be shown mercy." (At-Tabarani)
3. Mutual trust between them: Each one of them should have complete trust in the other and should not have the least amount of doubt or suspicion concerning the other's honesty, sincerity and devotion to the other.
Allah's Messenger (SAWS) also said: "None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
The bond between spouses goes beyond the bond of simple brotherhood with respect to trust, strength and fervor.
Each spouse should realize that he/she is the essence and personification of the other. How could a person not trust himself and not be sincere to himself? How could a person cheat and deceive himself?
4. General good manners: This includes kindness in dealings with each other, smiling at each other, good and noble speech, respect and regard for one another. This is the "honorable and good treatment" that is ordered by Allah (SWT) in the Verse, "… And live with them honorably." (Holy Qur'an, 4:19)
This is the fulfilling of the advice to treat them well that is found in the words of Allah's Messenger (SAWS):"I advise you to treat women well." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
These are, in general, the etiquette that are shared between the husband and the wife. These should be mutual between them. This is how to act upon the "firm and strong covenant" that is referred to in the Verse: "And how could you take it (back) while you have gone in unto each other, and they have taken from you a firm and strong covenant?" (Holy Qur'an, 4:21)
This is also in obedience to Allah's command in the Verse: "And do not forget liberality between yourselves. Truly, Allah is All-Seer of what you do." (Holy Qur'an 2:237)
As for the specific rights and manners that each spouse must perform with respect to the other, they include the following:
1. The Rights of the Wife Upon the Husband
It is obligatory upon the husband to fulfill the following etiquette with respect to his wife:
1. He must treat her in a respectable and honorable manner, as Allah (SWT) says: "And live with them honorably." (Holy Qur'an, 4:19)
He must feed her when he is fed and clothe her when he is clothed. He must also discipline her if he fears Nushooz (recalcitrance on her part) in the way that Allah (SWT) has ordered the women to be disciplined. First, he is to advise her without abusing her, swearing at her or shaming her. If she obeys him, that is the end of the matter. If she does not obey him, then he separates from her in their bedding. If she then reforms herself, the matter is concluded.
Otherwise, he may beat her lightly, not in the face and not in a bruising manner or one that would cause bleeding, tearing of the skin, breaking of a bone or the like. These are his responsibilities in accord with the Verse: "As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance)..." (Holy Qur'an, 4:34)
The Prophet (SAWS) said in response to a man who asked him what were the rights of the wives upon them: "That you feed her when you feed yourself. You clothe her when you clothe yourself. You do not strike the face. You do not shame her and you do not boycott her except in the house." (Abu Dawud)
In another Hadith, it states: "Verily, their rights upon you are that you treat them well with respect to their clothing and food." (At-Tirmithi and Ibn Majah)
Yet another Hadith states: "A believing man does not dislike a believing woman. If he dislikes one character in her, he is pleased with another." (Muslim)
2. He must teach her what she must necessarily know of her religion, if she is not already knowledgeable of it. If he does not or cannot, he must permit her to attend the lectures or gatherings in which she can attain such knowledge. This is because her need to correct her religion and purify her soul is no less than her need for food and drink, that one is obliged to supply her with. This is based on Allah's saying: "O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell)... " (Holy Qur'an, 66:6)
The wife is part of the family and it is obligatory to protect her from the Hell-fire through faith and good deeds. Good deeds are definitely in need of knowledge and recognition so that one can actually fulfill and execute them in the way that they are demanded by the Shari'ah.
Furthermore, the Prophet (SAWS) said: "I advise you to treat women well, for they are like captives under your control." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
This admonition includes teaching them what they need to know to rectify their religion and to educate them in what is necessary for her to know in order to follow the right path and proper manner in every affair.
3. He must make her adhere to the Islamic teachings and manners. He should rebuke her whenever she may go against those teachings. He must prevent her from appearing without Hijab (veil) and displaying her beauty. He must keep her from mixing with men other than her male relatives that she cannot marry.
At the same time, he must give her all the means that protect her properly and guard over her. He cannot permit her to do any act that will harm her character or religion. He should not give her any opportunity to go against the commands of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAWS) and to be disobedient. This is because this is his guardianship and he will be asked about it. He is responsible to protect it and guard it, as Allah (SWT) has said: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women..." (Holy Qur'an, 4:34)
Allah's Messenger (SAWS) said: "The man is responsible for his household and he will be asked about his guardianship." (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
4. He must be just between his wife and her co-wives, if she has co-wives. He must be equitable with respect to food, drink, clothing, living with and sleeping in their beds. He cannot be unequal in any of these matters nor can he wrong or oppress any of his wives.
Allah (SWT) has forbidden that in His words: "...but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (slaves) that your right hands possess." (Holy Qur'an, 4:3)
Furthermore, Allah's Messenger (SAWS) has advised that they be treated in the best manner when he said: "The best of you is the best to his family and I am the best to my family." (At-Tabarani)
5. The husband must not spread her private aspects to others, nor should he mention her shortcomings to others. He is supposed to be a type of guardian and entrusted one for her. He should seek her welfare and defend her honor.
Allah's Messenger (SAWS) also said: "The people in the worst position in Allah's sight on the Day of Resurrection is a man who goes to his wife and she to him and he then spreads her secrets." (Muslim)
(Translated by: Jamaal Zarabozo)
Monday : 31/03/2003
http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12611#post12611
sorry
there u go
http://www.myislamweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1839
Thank you!
Here are just a few quotes from the links:
However, in some cases a husband may use some light disciplinary action in order to correct the moral infraction of his wife, but this is only applicable in extreme cases and it should be resorted to if one is sure it would improve the situation...
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) explained it "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that face must be avoided. Some other scholars are of the view that it is no more than a light touch by siwak, or toothbrush.... It is also important to note that even this "light strike" mentioned in the verse is not to be used to correct some minor problem, but it is permissible to resort to only in a situation of some serious moral misconduct when admonishing the wife fails, and avoiding from sleeping with her would not help...
There are cases, however, in which a wife persists in bad habits and showing contempt of her husband and disregard for her marital obligations. Instead of divorce, the husband may resort to another measure that may save the marriage, at least in some cases. Such a measure is more accurately described as a gentle tap on the body, but never on the face, making it more of a symbolic measure than a punitive one.
OK so a husband can hit a wife.
But it musn't be on the face
Leave bruising
Be hard
Could be with the Miswak (tooth Stick)
Just symbolic
And only ever used in EXTREME cases.
Let's try and illustrate it with a concrete example. What sort of extreme case? When a wife keeps allowing a male neighbour in while he is out, who he forbade? Is that extreme enough?
1. So first he tells her to stop. Speaks to her and perhaps gets others to speak to her.
But she continues to let the man in while he is out.
2. So he tells her they are going to sleep in seperate beds. They do this for a week or two?
But she continues to let the man in while he is out.
3. So he sits her down and takes out the Miswak or feather or uses his hand and lightly and symbolically taps her on the shoulder.
Will once do?
Ok let's give a couple more taps.
And what?
She says "Yes, when we talked and even seperated in bed all that time I never understood - but now that you tapped me on the shoulder I understand."
Please? Is there anyone honest enough to admit this is ridiculous.
No - I'm not saying the Qur'an is absurd or ridiculous.
It obviously worked back then. But the society was quite different then. This was a society that thought it was ok to bury a bay girl alive!!!
It was a society that thought nothing of beating women and treating them as commodities to be carried away with all the other booty when you raided your neighbouring tribe.
Today of course we also have our problems - so don't accuse me of claiming this society is perfect.
But it is DIFFERENT.
Hitting your wife is unacceptable!
And if you argue it is only a symbolic tap then it is ridiculous to think such a thing would solve ANYTHING - especially an extreme case of immoral conduct by someone who has IGNORED all other strategies to solve it.
Medinahgirl
25-04-06, 10:32 PM
Does everyone agree with Emelianenko?
How did you know that?
Is it surprising that women are treated badly by some men in Muslim countries (and here)????
When the Qur'an says it's OK to hit your wife.
Saying it should be light or with a Miswak is fine - but the idots who beat their wife don't worry about that.
They beat them for the slightest thing - not cooking their food properly or not finishing the cleaning etc...
The nice ones who know that it should be light or with a miswak don't ever get to such a situation coz they treat their wife well!
This is why I say we must review our understanding of Qur'an is some matters - as it leads to gross distortions in our day and age.
The relationship between men and women is different - it has changed.
Hitting your wife is neither acceptable nor will bring any desired result!
Salaam
I agree with Peace...I mean just for not doing the house chores properly...a husband has no right to hit his wife!
Just for opening the door late.....!!!
and yes even brothers...who think they are ..i dunno wat?
They too think that they have a right to hit their sisters cause they are man even though they are younger!!!
I hate these kind of men......May Allah guide them to the straight path!
Ameen
salaam
Like maybe the MRS went and commited Zina, many things which could push someone over their limits.
Erm... no!
Zina has it's own Hadd :rolleyes:
The rebellion (Nushooz) does NOT mean Zina!
Actually b4 I quote some of the scholars on this matter - I would be VERY interested in hearing what EXACTLY is it that you or any others think consitutes "REBELLION" (Nushooz) as stated in the Qur'an.
take the prophet as an example
he has never beaten his wife, and thats the example we need to go by
it cannot be more simple
Actually that is often said - but is actually not strictly true.
The prophet once struck Aisha on the chest and caused her pain when she followed him out in the middle of the night.
************************************************** ****
Here's the Hadith:
Book 004, Number 2127
Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.
Actually b4 I quote some of the scholars on this matter - I would be VERY interested in hearing what EXACTLY is it that you or any others think consitutes "REBELLION" (Nushooz) as stated in the Qur'an.
being mouthy init, like givin ya abit of lip nah mean.
dissin you and tht gettin fiesty
Thank you!
Here are just a few quotes from the links:
OK so a husband can hit a wife.
But it musn't be on the face
Leave bruising
Be hard
Could be with the Miswak (tooth Stick)
Just symbolic
And only ever used in EXTREME cases.
Let's try and illustrate it with a concrete example. What sort of extreme case? When a wife keeps allowing a male neighbour in while he is out, who he forbade? Is that extreme enough?
1. So first he tells her to stop. Speaks to her and perhaps gets others to speak to her.
But she continues to let the man in while he is out.
2. So he tells her they are going to sleep in seperate beds. They do this for a week or two?
But she continues to let the man in while he is out.
3. So he sits her down and takes out the Miswak or feather or uses his hand and lightly and symbolically taps her on the shoulder.
Will once do?
Ok let's give a couple more taps.
And what?
She says "Yes, when we talked and even seperated in bed all that time I never understood - but now that you tapped me on the shoulder I understand."
Please? Is there anyone honest enough to admit this is ridiculous.
No - I'm not saying the Qur'an is absurd or ridiculous.
It obviously worked back then. But the society was quite different then. This was a society that thought it was ok to bury a bay girl alive!!!
It was a society that thought nothing of beating women and treating them as commodities to be carried away with all the other booty when you raided your neighbouring tribe.
Today of course we also have our problems - so don't accuse me of claiming this society is perfect.
But it is DIFFERENT.
Hitting your wife is unacceptable!
And if you argue it is only a symbolic tap then it is ridiculous to think such a thing would solve ANYTHING - especially an extreme case of immoral conduct by someone who has IGNORED all other strategies to solve it.
Now, to be honest, I would be careful how you illustrate your examples, in the Qur'aan it tells us how to deal with a disobedient wife, and the last resort is 'hit lightly'....the Quraan says that, Allah (swt) says this, not us. Now your example somehow is trying to say that what the Qur'aan says would not work????....
The laws of Qur'aan do not change, I said this in my previous post. You have focussed your attentions in the wrong place. We need to concern ourselves with the men who abuse the ayat, and educate these ignorant people, and educate people on how abiding to Islam is the key to attaining successful marriages.
The laws of Allah (swt) and the sunnah of Rasool (saw) TRANSCEND TIME, they do not change, they apply to communities across time...this is the beauty of Islam????? Who are we to say it doesnt apply today, when Allah (swt) says that it will apply till the day of judgement????
Muslim men for whatever reason even if the wive comitted zina are not allowed to knock them silly
No he takes her to the Qadi who - if she is guilty of Zina - will have her buried up to her neck and then get some pious Muslims to pelt her with stones until she is dead.
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 11:02 PM
No he takes her to the Qadi who - if she is guilty of Zina - will have her buried up to her neck and then get some pious Muslims to pelt her with stones until she is dead.
In a Muslim country aye. But for those born and bred in the UK like most of us here??????????
In a Muslim country aye. But for those born and bred in the UK like most of us here??????????
Are u suggesting that if your wife committed Zina you should tap her with a Misawk?
If my wife commited Zina - I would divorce her - no hitting - end of story!
Al-Irhaab
25-04-06, 11:14 PM
No he takes her to the Qadi who - if she is guilty of Zina - will have her buried up to her neck and then get some pious Muslims to pelt her with stones until she is dead.
are u mocking the law of allah (swt)
Emelianenko
25-04-06, 11:14 PM
Are u suggesting that if your wife committed Zina you should tap her with a Misawk?
If my wife commited Zina - I would divorce her - no hitting - end of story!
No i did not suggest i would hit her with a Miswaak if she committed Zina :rolleyes:
Omar :p just use a gypo camp :p
Hitting? I would love my wife (inshaAllah) too much to even dare to raise my hands :embar:
Where is the love? :inlove:
Look - I love Prophet Muhammad and I love Islam.
I believe Muhammad was a prophet of God and a special man.
And I believe the Qur'an is a revelation from God.
But Muhammad was also a human being - and was a man of his time. He couldn't have been anything else.
And the Qur'an was a divine revelation and came with an eternal message - BUT it also came with very specific solutions to very specific problems of the time.
Simple as that!
are u mocking the law of allah (swt)
Is stating the law as it stands in Shari'ah - mocking it?
Why?
Do you find the law funny?
lets be realistic here, ppl have tempers... which can often result in violent outbreaks.
society is just as barbaric today as it was during the early days of islam... women from all societies are beaten senseless by their husbands. islam here puts a stop to that. the ayah of the Quran lays down a boundry here, that if your wife does anything very displeasing to you, then the most you can do is a light tap.
it is not a outright permission to hit your wife whenever you feel like it.
lets be realistic here, ppl have tempers... which can often result in violent outbreaks.
society is just as barbaric today as it was during the early days of islam... women from all societies are beaten senseless by their husbands. islam here puts a stop to that. the ayah of the Quran lays down a boundry here, that if your wife does anything very displeasing to you, then the most you can do is a light tap.
it is not a outright permission to hit your wife whenever you feel like it.
Precisely :up:
*IslamicGirl*
25-04-06, 11:39 PM
:start:
:salams
I think anyone who uses force be it the man or woman is not right.
Maybe there are extreme cases i'm not aware of them so the hitting thing is no.
Imagine a household where violence goes hand in hand with anger, how will the kids grow up in such an atmosphere?
Each time someone would use force, the respect, love and friendship would slowly wilt away.
:salams
lets be realistic here, ppl have tempers... which can often result in violent outbreaks.
society is just as barbaric today as it was during the early days of islam... women from all societies are beaten senseless by their husbands. islam here puts a stop to that. the ayah of the Quran lays down a boundry here, that if your wife does anything very displeasing to you, then the most you can do is a light tap.
it is not a outright permission to hit your wife whenever you feel like it.
You are right!
Islam came to stop wife beating. Just as it came to stop drinking and slavery and other practises of the pre-Islamic days of the Jahiliyyah.
These things could not be done over night and Allah uses wisdom in treating these diseases.
But we need to appreciate this wisdom and understand that the aim was to eventually outlaw drinking, slavery and wife beating.
While drinking was eventually outlawed during the Prophet's life time - other things take a little longer.
This is in no way changing Qur'an.
It is understanding it's wisdom!
Al-Irhaab
25-04-06, 11:53 PM
Is stating the law as it stands in Shari'ah - mocking it?
Why?
Do you find the law funny?
i dont find it funny... but ur retarded comments from the other thread along with ur jahil views has already shown shown to everyone that u no longer believe this the best punishment for an adulteror... obviously some warped shaitan has worked his way into ur brain telling u that u know better then allah (swt) for such a person to mock the law of allah (Swt) would not be something extreme :rolleyes:
wisdom is the key here.
if a wife does something so displeasing to her husband, that he feels it warrants him to unsheath his miswaak... then he should think whether his subsequent action would cause a resentment or a realisation?
for many women today, it would probably cause resentment and more harm than good. if this is the case, then the husband should avoid it.
now if the husband feels as a result of using his miswaak on his wife will be positive and will create a realisation in his wife that what she had done has caused him extreme displeasure then yes, he is entitled to do so.
agains, wisdom is the key.
salaams
firstly i would like to say that if one sees another saying something which may be contrary to Islam then i am sure we are all aware of the correct etiquette in correcting them, namely in private and inshaAllah not with the intention to humiliate them or hurt them...from my understanding, that is not the aim of this thread and by no means the aim of this forum.
from the posts it seems no one is refuting the teachings of the Quran nor those of the Prophet however, as with all other threads, it comes to a battle of opinions.
we are by no means scholars, let alone learned individuals. Hence when a married couple enter into an argument which persists, in which the wife is the cause (because that is the subject of this thread, men are equally able to err) then, accepted, do all those things as stated by Allah to reconcile the matter, and also take pointers from the Prophets (SAW) sunnah.
the matter lies with the husbands' imaan. inshaAllah he will adopt means to resolve matters amicably. and also lies with the wifes' imaan , if she provokes him in a way whereby he will become aggravted then, yes he may raise his hand and smack her...but the key in all of this i feel (opinionated!) is educating others and also networking inshaAllah.
another point, islam is a very simple, pure constructive way of life. it is able to maintain the naivety in a woman that the western culture strips from her. just like children are naiveand are able to abide by their parents reprimanding them, the muslim woman again would be able to do the same...but alas, we live in the west...the fault does not lie with the teachings, it lies with us and those around us.
Guardian Hijab
26-04-06, 12:51 AM
I would not know to react if my husband hit me with a miswhack.
I'd probably hit him back with a spoon.
umm_huraiyrah
26-04-06, 12:52 AM
Akhi..............
Abuse can happen on both ends. It's unfortunate but true. Personally I believe you never hit a woman! always treat her with respect that you want. If you cannot live in peace togather then you do not need to be togather. I pray Allah leads ANY abuser to the right path AMEEN! :up: THERE SIMPLIFIED!!!
well sed...
i telll u what...
id rather a man hit the woman..than the woman being a husband beater they can be more violent..lol..
okay im gna spk on behalf of my bro...
hed probz slap...and shake her about but thats it...:D what? dont look at me like that...its true..:rolleyes:
as for us girls...hmm wud u girls eva hit ure hubbys? i mean..its common where i live....and trust me when women get violent they really do..and they end up klling too..:rubeyes:
Ignatius F. Peace
26-04-06, 01:26 AM
Let me offer the Irish perspective on this subject. You marry into my family, you lay a finger on my daughter, sister or any woman dear to our heart, husband, or not, you'll get beaten to within an inch of your life.
Emelianenko
26-04-06, 01:29 AM
Thats the way of many dude, irish, pakistanis, whites or anyone.
for some reason i wouldnt mind hitting everyone on this thread u know for educational purposes i wana practice the art of islamic beating
by not striking ur face, bruising ur body and inflicing pain on u:up:
LOL @ Quest...I have raised all of my daughters to know how to fight but they have all been warned that if they have the balls to hit a man then they better be ready to take the punch like a man. I pity the man that ever hits one of my daughters out of anger(I mean serious hit...a miswack...come on :rolleyes: ) because they really know how to hurt a guy :D
haha T your daughters and i should form an alliance
i plan on going to the battlefield I.A when full blown jihad breaks out
i doubt i would be recognised on my horse and ninja clothes hamza style.
seriously its good sisters know how to defend themselves. ur daughters can join my mujahidah crew on that special day :up:
i have 6 brothers T, learning how to fight in my household was a neccessity it and ALLAHS will is the reason i am alive lol
in the begining i was a wuss i would fake crying like i felt pain, but that didnt work, i got a D in drama, so i had to learn to get them where it hurts
umm_huraiyrah
26-04-06, 03:24 AM
Well Akhi's and Ukthi's ...... I say violence on any part is not the solution. Yes abuse happens in every city and town across the world done by both male and female but it's not the solution. All it will do is build more hatred for the husband. I am speaking as an ex battered woman. Personally the abuse I suffered NO ONE should have suffered!! :nono: I had bruises, was humiliated in public as well as in the home. Have had busted lip's,bruises, Chipped teeth, strangled and was kidnapped by my abuser. I eventually escaped. I was a prisoner. and was forced into the MORMON religion!! :rubeyes: :55: :bangbang: :mad: Yeah and this happened to me in USA. Was even hit in front of a cop he didn't even look my way!! Talking about this gives me shakes and shivers. Is that how youre wife/husband should feel?
Abuse of any kind is not the answer nor acceptable!!!!!! A woman and man should be highly regarded with respect. NO If's and's or but's about it. My abuser had shaytan at his side for sure!!! Now I am happily married to a Believer of God (not part of any particular religion) but he supports me in any decision I make, treats me like a Queen and with respect and dignity. We discuss and share all matters. I treat my husband the same. Isn't that called a somewhat stable RELATIONSHIP????? Disputes can be handles in an adult, caring verbal way. Talk it out. Relationships about compromise too. At least here it is. :up: May Allah Lead us all the right path!! AMEEN!
Sister Dana/Habiba
PS Ukthi's self-defense if they can't see.......they can't fight
If they have no knee cap's they cann't fight it only takes 15 or 25 pounds of pressure which is like snapping youre finger's to knock knee cap's down. My husband taught me this.
Well Akhi's and Ukthi's ...... I say violence on any part is not the solution. Yes abuse happens in every city and town across the world done by both male and female but it's not the solution. All it will do is build more hatred for the husband. I am speaking as an ex battered woman. Personally the abuse I suffered NO ONE should have suffered!! :nono: I had bruises, was humiliated in public as well as in the home. Have had busted lip's,bruises, Chipped teeth, strangled and was kidnapped by my abuser. I eventually escaped. I was a prisoner. and was forced into the MORMON religion!! :rubeyes: :55: :bangbang: :mad: Yeah and this happened to me in USA. Was even hit in front of a cop he didn't even look my way!! Talking about this gives me shakes and shivers. Is that how youre wife/husband should feel?
Abuse of any kind is not the answer nor acceptable!!!!!! A woman and man should be highly regarded with respect. NO If's and's or but's about it. My abuser had shaytan at his side for sure!!! Now I am happily married to a Believer of God (not part of any particular religion) but he supports me in any decision I make, treats me like a Queen and with respect and dignity. We discuss and share all matters. I treat my husband the same. Isn't that called a somewhat stable RELATIONSHIP????? Disputes can be handles in an adult, caring verbal way. Talk it out. Relationships about compromise too. At least here it is. :up: May Allah Lead us all the right path!! AMEEN!
Sister Dana/Habiba
PS Ukthi's self-defense if they can't see.......they can't fight
If they have no knee cap's they cann't fight it only takes 15 or 25 pounds of pressure which is like snapping youre finger's to knock knee cap's down. My husband taught me this.
Sister, my heart goes out to you. My mother and I suffered for years at the hands of my stepfather. It was so bad that I had to live with my grandparents. A couple of other pointers for any sisters out there that find themselves in an abusive situation that they cannot escape. 15-25 lbs of pressure will take out a kneecap but you have to know how to do it. Meanwhile, a karate style chop to the collarbone will break it with about 20 lbs of force and they can't hit you if their arm is useless:D
Quest, insha allah my daughters will see the light and revert. Women with PMS and righteousness on their side would be a most formidable foe:D
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/dv_nushooz.htm
Causes [of Nushooz] That Can Be Traced Back to the Husband Himself or His Friends
By Dr. Saalih ibn Ghaanim al-Sadlaan
Marital Discord [al-Nushooz], Its Definition, Cases, Causes, Means of Protection From It, and Its Remedy From the Quran and Sunnah. Translated by Jamaal al-Din M. Zarabozo, © S. Al-Sadlaan and J. Zarabozo
The husband himself may be the cause of an unhappy marriage. For example, he may be very stingy and miserly. He may also be very emotional and excitable. He may also be someone who is very harsh, tough and despotic. He may be one who forces his will and decisions upon his wife in every matter without consulting with her, taking into consideration her feelings, exchanging views on the matter and being pleasant with this wife.
He might consider his wife like some kind of chattel and therefore deals with her with coldness and coarseness without any compassion or gentleness. [I][Translator’s Footnote: A disease that seems to afflict many men in their ability to be very kind and brotherly to their brothers but extremely cold and harsh towards their own wives. Obviously, their wives have more rights upon them than any of their brothers in Islam. This mistaken behavior must be corrected.]
The cause for that may also be in his friends who sow discontent between a man and his wife by leading him and pushing him to disliking and hating his wife and wishing to be free from her.
"[In fact,] (his extreme good nature beyond normal limits) may also lead to his wife to change her disposition and make her try to override him and then disobey his commands and elevate herself above him." [Majallah al-Jundi al-Muslim, p. 29, fn.1.]
"He may cause his wife different forms of harm, such as cursing her or her family, reviling her, verbally abusing her for the tiniest of reasons. He may insult her because of her family, if it is less prestigious or honorable than his. Or [another act of nushooz on his part is that] he may try to bring harm to her by divorcing her and then, before the waiting period is finished, bring her back as his wife and then divorce her again. All this is done without the intention of returning to a real married life but simply to harm her and transgress her rights. Or he may avoid having sexual intercourse with her for no reason or legal sanction. This may lead the woman to lose her chastity and doing something forbidden." [Al-Bahuti al-Hanbali, Kishaaf al-Qinaa’ an Matn al-Iqnaa’, vol. 5, pp. 184, 290, 213; Ibn Abideen, Radd al-Mukhtar ala al-Darr al-Mukhtar wa Hashiyah, vol. 3, p. 190; Tafseer al-Manaar, vol. 5, p. 76.]
Shaikh al-Islam ibn Taimiya stated, "The harm that comes about to the woman by the man avoiding sexual intercourse with her is such that the marriage may be dissolved under every circumstance, regardless if it was intentional from the husband or unintentional, or if he had the ability to perform sexual intercourse or not." [Ibn Taimiyah, al-Fatawa al-Kubra, vol. 4, p. 562; Ibn Taimiyah, Majmuah al-Fatawa, vol. 32, p. 40.]
[Nushooz on the part of the husband includes] when he orders her to do something forbidden or illegal, such as going out in public displaying her beauty or uncovering parts of her that must be covered, to go among men she is not related to, to drink alcohol or take drugs, go to clubs and salons wherein bad things are taking place.
Also from nushooz on the part of the husband is his not fulfilling his marital obligations. For example, he makes life difficult for her with respect to her food, drink, clothing and so forth. [Translator’s footnote: This is one of the biggest marital problems that one can see occurring in the West. Many times, the husbands simply do not support their wives and families. Although they have the physical and other means to work and support their families, they would resort to putting themselves and their families on the welfare system. Often times, the husbands will give the flimsiest excuses for not accepting work and therefore put families in such situations. Many times, the husband would rather force his wife to go out and work – which, in the West, almost always involves putting the Muslim woman into situations that she should not be put into – rather than he accept a job that he is not completely pleased with. Hence, their families do not achieve the economic well-being that they deserve and, often, the wife loses respect for the husband as he is not performing one of his most important obligations of married life: providing maintenance for his wife and family. Sooner or later this often leads to many other problems within the marriage, although the root of those problems is the husband’s unwillingness to work and sustain the family.] Or he makes her live in a residence that is not something suitable for her.
[In addition, included among the acts of nushooz] is his unfair distribution of his time or where he stays [when he is married to more than one wife] without legal justification. Or, he may not fulfil the needs of his wife and children such that their well-being is not met. Or, he does things that hurt and dishonor his wife and show lack of respect for her, such as backbiting her, slandering her or joking about her. Or, he may be desirous of her wealth and forces her to spend it on his behalf.
[The following are also acts that constitute nushooz on the part of the husband:] having anal intercourse with her, which is forbidden and is never permissible, his travelling for fun, amusement and entertainment without taking her permission as he is thereby wasting ample wealth for a useless purpose, while that wealth is meant to sustain the rights of his household.
If the man apostates from Islam – and refuge is sought in Allah – that is considered nushooz and the marriage contract is dissolved unless he returns to Islam. [See al-Khalafaat al-Zaujiyah, p. 39.]
There are many other causes or acts of nushooz that we have not mentioned here in order not to overly lengthen the discussion.
Al-Hasan al-Basri said: this means that it should not cause pain.
That is Hasan Al-Basri's opinion.
There is no legal requirement that it should not cause pain.
In fact some scholars agree that it can - since it is considered a corrective measure!
elefantebianco
26-04-06, 10:36 AM
That is Hasan Al-Basri's opinion.
There is no legal requirement that it should not cause pain.
In fact some scholars agree that it can - since it is considered a corrective measure!
:rubeyes: :rubeyes: :rubeyes:
how can you say that teacher hassan....thats so extra...you are so not meant to cause pain...its says lightly...and so that is not causing pain..
Al-Irhaab
26-04-06, 10:58 AM
That is Hasan Al-Basri's opinion.
There is no legal requirement that it should not cause pain.
In fact some scholars agree that it can - since it is considered a corrective measure!
oh yeah i forgot ... its only hasan al basri (rh) the most knowledgable of the tabieen and one of the greatest of the ulema and fuqaha... :rolleyes:
tell us what is your opinion of pork... i hear many people talking about the wisdom of the quran and that pork was forbidden because it was very difficult to maintain in the hot heat of the middle east and led to disease but now seeing as that is not a problem then pork is fine... is this the kind of 'wisdom' you talk about
:rubeyes: :rubeyes: :rubeyes:
how can you say that teacher hassan....thats so extra...you are so not meant to cause pain...its says lightly...and so that is not causing pain..
OK. Let me make it absolutely clear - I am totally against causing pain!
I believe that to hit one's wife is wrong - under ANY circumstances!
But I am merely pointing out that the scholars are not all agreed about the claim that the hit should not cause pain.
If more Muslims realised that this matter is not as clear as they would like to imagine - I believe more would agree with me that it is not acceptable in this day and age.
Let me quote Sheikh Saalih ibn al-Sadlaan - to give you a better understanding of what scholars have said (please note that my quoting him DOES'T mean I agree with him):
QUOTE:
Yes, resorting to harshness may be a beneficial cure, if it in fact returns the household to its normal routine and brings the partners back together in love and mercy. In that case it can be a positive cure and spiritual disciplining. It is not meant for revenge or punishment. It is instead meant to restore what has become improper and bring the disturbance to rest.
The beating is not for humiliation, nor revenge, nor to disparage, nor to punish. In fact, it is meant to be a beating of disciplining, correcting and educating. It is done while in the state of a compassionate teacher and upbringer. It is not supposed to be in a harsh way that may lead to more disdain and seperation. Nor should it be done such that it will cut off the relations and compassion between the two. Although it is a bitter medicine, however more harmful than it for the woman is the disbanding and dissolution of the foundation of the family.
The jurists have given a general definition for the word "beating" as, "Name for the action that brings about pain to the body, regardless of whether it left a mark on the body or not and regardless of what instrument was used in the striking." (Tabyeen al-Haqa'iq Sharh Kanz al-Daqa'iq - al-Zaila'i)
"Beating" may be divided into two types:
1. The beating which is violent and intense (Mubarrih)
2. The beating which is not violent and intense (Ghayru Mubarrih)
The beating which is violent and intense is defined as, "The strong and harsh striking from which it is feared that a bone may be broken, the person injured, an extremity injured or the skin broken or disfigured." (al-Mabda') This type of beating is forbidden and prohibited by the law. It is one of the illegal acts.
As for the striking which is not violent and intense, it is defined as. "The light beating which does not cause bleeding nor does one fear from it injury to life or limb or tearing of the skin, breakage or disfigurment." (Al-Bahr al-Zakhkhaar)
This type of striking is permissible in the cases of nushooz, disobedience and opposition by the wife and when admonition and boycotting does not mend her ways. It is a means which is disciplining, educating and reforming and directly affects the body of the woman. In fact, it is an awakening or physical admonition that Islam approves of and permits in cases of necessity.
Al-Suddi said, "They are to be taken by their hands and disciplined." (al-Durr al-Manthoor... Al-Suyuti)
It is narrated from Asma bint Abu Bakr who said, "I was the 4th of 4 wives of al-Zubayr. Whenever he would reprimand one of us, he would break off a branch from the wooden clothes hangers and beat her with it until he broke it over her." Tabari - Tahdhib al-Athaar)
The striking must not be a vicious striking and must be done with something like a handkerchief, siwaak, hand, light stick or something similar to those. The strike cannot cause bleeding, injury, deformation of an extemity. breaking of a bone.
The jurists have given a general definition for the word "beating" as, "Name for the action that brings about pain to the body, regardless of whether it left a mark on the body or not and regardless of what instrument was used in the striking." (Tabyeen al-Haqa'iq Sharh Kanz al-Daqa'iq - al-Zaila'i)
"Beating" may be divided into two types:
1. The beating which is violent and intense (Mubarrih)
2. The beating which is not violent and intense (Ghayru Mubarrih)
The beating which is violent and intense is defined as, "The strong and harsh striking from which it is feared that a bone may be broken, the person injured, an extremity injured or the skin broken or disfigured." (al-Mabda') This type of beating is forbidden and prohibited by the law. It is one of the illegal acts.
As for the striking which is not violent and intense, it is defined as. "The light beating which does not cause bleeding nor does one fear from it injury to life or limb or tearing of the skin, breakage or disfigurment." (Al-Bahr al-Zakhkhaar)
This type of striking is permissible in the cases of nushooz, disobedience and opposition by the wife and when admonition and boycotting does not mend her ways. It is a means which is disciplining, educating and reforming and directly affects the body of the woman. In fact, it is an awakening or physical admonition that Islam approves of and permits in cases of necessity.
As you can see there is no definition that rules out pain.
And as Sadlaan says - the whole point of hitting her is to get TOUGH and HARSH which cannot be achieved if one is just SYMBOLLICALLY tapping her with a miswak or feather on the shoulder!!!
You also see that hitting can be done with the HAND and with a STICK and other things!
Look the point of my posting this is so that you can see the reality.
Yes we would all like to pretend that the hitting is just a symbollic tap and Islam forbids causing your wife PAIN - but it simply isn't true!
Even the prophet once cause Aisha pain!
The irony is I get accused of wanting to change Islam - which is not true btw!
But some of you ppl here don't want to face the truth of Islam in some issues!
So what do you want?
Al-Irhaab
26-04-06, 12:41 PM
The jurists have given a general definition for the word "beating" as, "Name for the action that brings about pain to the body, regardless of whether it left a mark on the body or not and regardless of what instrument was used in the striking." (Tabyeen al-Haqa'iq Sharh Kanz al-Daqa'iq - al-Zaila'i)
"Beating" may be divided into two types:
1. The beating which is violent and intense (Mubarrih)
2. The beating which is not violent and intense (Ghayru Mubarrih)
The beating which is violent and intense is defined as, "The strong and harsh striking from which it is feared that a bone may be broken, the person injured, an extremity injured or the skin broken or disfigured." (al-Mabda') This type of beating is forbidden and prohibited by the law. It is one of the illegal acts.
As for the striking which is not violent and intense, it is defined as. "The light beating which does not cause bleeding nor does one fear from it injury to life or limb or tearing of the skin, breakage or disfigurment."(Al-Bahr al-Zakhkhaar)
This type of striking is permissible in the cases of nushooz, disobedience and opposition by the wife and when admonition and boycotting does not mend her ways. It is a means which is disciplining, educating and reforming and directly affects the body of the woman. In fact, it is an awakening or physical admonition that Islam approves of and permits in cases of necessity.
As you can see there is no definition that rules out pain.
And as Sadlaan says - the whole point of hitting her is to get TOUGH and HARSH which cannot be achieved if one is just SYMBOLLICALLY tapping her with a miswak or feather on the shoulder!!!
You also see that hitting can be done with the HAND and with a STICK and other things!
Look the point of my posting this is so that you can see the reality.
Yes we would all like to pretend that the hitting is just a symbollic tap and Islam forbids causing your wife PAIN - but it simply isn't true!
Even the prophet once cause Aisha pain!
The irony is I get accused of wanting to change Islam - which is not true btw!
But some of you ppl here don't want to face the truth of Islam in some issues!
So what do you want?
the fact of the matter is their is no issue at all...
if the people believe that it is allowed to cause the wife mild pain such as is seen with hitting with a miswaak of by the hand and this is backed from islam then there is no problem with it :rolleyes:
if the prophet (Saw) who never did sin and was the practical example of the will of allah (Swt) inflicted pain upon Aisha (ra) who was amongst the best of women then why do you have a problem with someone doing that now... is the prophet (saw) not the best of examples...
those who wish to follow the daleel which states you cannot cause pain then they are doing that backed by islamic evidence aswell...
those that say that its haram totally now to hit your wife are following the ways of the kaafir and changing the book of allah (Swt) :rolleyes: you see the difference
again answer my above question about pork? or is that an 'issue' not to be discussed
umm_huraiyrah
26-04-06, 02:28 PM
Sister, my heart goes out to you. My mother and I suffered for years at the hands of my stepfather. It was so bad that I had to live with my grandparents. A couple of other pointers for any sisters out there that find themselves in an abusive situation that they cannot escape. 15-25 lbs of pressure will take out a kneecap but you have to know how to do it. Meanwhile, a karate style chop to the collarbone will break it with about 20 lbs of force and they can't hit you if their arm is useless:D
Quest, insha allah my daughters will see the light and revert. Women with PMS and righteousness on their side would be a most formidable foe:D
Peace be upon you akhi............
Yes Akhi.......I understand. I learned a little hand to hand combat/self defense!! Yes Akhi I know that Manuver too. and on knocking knee caps down take side of foot and hit his knee as you were killing a bug! :up: And how to shoot a gun. :D I will never EVER have another man raise thier hands to me in that manner again. It was a living hell!! Abuse is not the answer!! Only adding more fuel to the fire. Disputes can be handles in a CIVILIZED adult manner!!! I'll never be :torture: again!!!!!! maybe my teachings are wrong but I was told by a Muslim Brother....Never hit a woman, child, elderly or disabled person!!!! Never fight with a man that does not want to fight!! Do not destroy his home or tree. Am I being taught right???? :confused: May Allah guide us all the right path!!! Ameen
ur_yusra
26-04-06, 02:39 PM
if the prophet (Saw) who never did sin and was the practical example of the will of allah (Swt) inflicted pain upon Aisha (ra)
What you mean :confused:
What you mean :confused:
The hadith post number 48 :confused:
Nawarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :up:
Before to hit a woman i would like only to advice the bro to think at the fact:
a woman never forget
a woman still can forgive but she will ask the price for that.
maybe my teachings are wrong but I was told by a Muslim Brother....Never hit a woman
No, that teaching is not wrong.
It is correct.
A Muslim should never hit a woman.
It was allowed in the past only so as to LIMIT the behaviour of the pre-Islamic Arabs and to change them slowly.
But now it is no longer allowed - in the TRUE spirit of Islam
Just as Slavery was allowed in Islam in the past - but now it is no longer allowed - in the TRUE spirit of Islam
umm_huraiyrah
26-04-06, 03:21 PM
here's some wise advice
POINT BLANK TREAT HER WELL AND THE FRINGE BENEFITS WILL BE BETTER THEN TAKING A HAND TO HER IN ANY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :up: :D :up: :D :up:
Peace be upon you!!
Sister dana
I know how sensitive and upsetting this issue is.
And I know how hard it is to deal with the conflict between obedience to what "you think" Allah and his prophet have commanded and one's conscience and instincts!
I know coz I've been going thru this for years.
In fact it was this particular issue that has troubled me greatly and started me wondering whether we have understood the Qur'an and the Prophet properly.
I'm really sorry to raise such difficult and uncomfortable points.
But if u r going to discuss this issue - then discuss it honestly and with ur eyes open.
Then make a judgment as to whether what I am saying is really so out of order!
AbuMubarak
26-04-06, 03:29 PM
This issue about hitting one's wife is something I find very hard to understand.
I believe it is no longer permissible for a husband to hit a wife.
The command came to a harsh and barbaric society where women were treated badly. Allah sought to restrain the men from beating their wives - knowing they would not change over night!
I don't believe for one minute that Allah wants any man to hit his wife.
It was allowed at the time because it was a DIFFERENT society and hitting your wife would get the bring about the desired result.
Today it would only cause humiliation and resentment.
In fact it is ludicrous to think that - after talking and after separation - asking her to stand still while you tap her with a Miswak would actually make her say "Hmmmm yes, now I see. When u talked to me and seperated from my bed I did not understand - but now you have tapped me lightly on my shoulder it all makes sense!"
Isn't there anyone who has the honesty to stand up and say the whole thing is utterly absurd!!!!????
No, that teaching is not wrong.
It is correct.
A Muslim should never hit a woman.
It was allowed in the past only so as to LIMIT the behaviour of the pre-Islamic Arabs and to change them slowly.
But now it no longer be allowed - in the TRUE spirit of Islam
Just as Slavery was allowed in Islam in the past - but now it no longer be allowed - in the TRUE spirit of Islam
Hassan, when you read quran, do you just skip over these ayaat? Does your quran at home have red-lines crossing out these ayaat?
Would you be willing to volunteer to the zionists effort to recall all qurans and re-issue new, revised qurans?
maybe we should just place all of the qurans in a vault deep under the sea, execute all of the hafiz's and anyone who has memorized these ayats.
After that, we can issue new qurans with only Hassan-approved ayaat included
whaddya think?
Sounds like something that would complete your plans?
Hassan, when you read quran, do you just skip over these ayaat? Does your quran at home have red-lines crossing out these ayaat?
Would you be willing to volunteer to the zionists effort to recall all qurans and re-issue new, revised qurans?
maybe we should just place all of the qurans in a vault deep under the sea, execute all of the hafiz's and anyone who has memorized these ayats.
After that, we can issue new qurans with only Hassan-approved ayaat included
whaddya think?
Sounds like something that would complete your plans?
Everything in the Qur'an has benefit for us - even if it is not to be understood literally.
Have you forgotten that there are abrogated verses in the Qur'an that we read every day?
Al-Irhaab
26-04-06, 03:54 PM
Everything in the Qur'an has benefit for us - even if it is not to be understood literally.
Have you forgotten that there are abrogated verses in the Qur'an that we read every day?
abbrogated by allah (Swt) and his messenger... not by some teacher 1400 years later :rolleyes:
abbrogated by allah (Swt) and his messenger... not by some teacher 1400 years later :rolleyes:
Did you know your name means "Terrorism" ?
Al-Irhaab
26-04-06, 04:01 PM
Did you know your name means "Terrorism" ?
yes i do :D
so come on man simple question ive asked you twice man...
if someone said that the quran banned pork, because in spirit it was bad at the time of the prophet (saw) because it caused diseases due to the heat etc etc... and now we have fridges and pork doesnt cause problems etc etc... so therefore now its not forbidden what would u say to such reasoning...
yes i do :D
so come on man simple question ive asked you twice man...
if someone said that the quran banned pork, because in spirit it was bad at the time of the prophet (saw) because it caused diseases due to the heat etc etc... and now we have fridges and pork doesnt cause problems etc etc... so therefore now its not forbidden what would u say to such reasoning...
They may have a point - though I have not thought about it and wouldn't like to comment.
My reasoning about hitting one's wife, etc... is that it goes against my conscience.
Refraining from Pork is not in the same category.
So I would not ever eat Pork - as there is no reason to - particularly as I cannot be sure that the reasoning you gave is sound.
Al-Irhaab
26-04-06, 04:59 PM
They may have a point - though I have not thought about it and wouldn't like to comment.
My reasoning about hitting one's wife, etc... is that it goes against my conscience.
Refraining from Pork is not in the same category.
So I would not ever eat Pork - as there is no reason to - particularly as I cannot be sure that the reasoning you gave is sound.
think abt it more and then comment... wots wrong with the reasoning? its as sound as ur reasoning that the world has advanced and them time were barbaric.. same way those times technology wasnt good so disease spread quickly... ok so ur saying you wouldnt.. but would u agree with the fact that their opinion is valid and pork is fine now....
also whilst your thinking... what about say the hijab... wot would you say to a person who said hijab was obligatory only because the men at the time were barbaric and could not control themselves so women were made to cover... but men now are more used to a womans sexuality so hijab is no longer neccessary so making your wives and daughters to cover is no longer needed and is oppressive? would they have a valid reasoning or not...
think abt it more and then comment... wots wrong with the reasoning? its as sound as ur reasoning that the world has advanced and them time were barbaric.. same way those times technology wasnt good so disease spread quickly... ok so ur saying you wouldnt.. but would u agree with the fact that their opinion is valid and pork is fine now....
also whilst your thinking... what about say the hijab... wot would you say to a person who said hijab was obligatory only because the men at the time were barbaric and could not control themselves so women were made to cover... but men now are more used to a womans sexuality so hijab is no longer neccessary so making your wives and daughters to cover is no longer needed and is oppressive? would they have a valid reasoning or not...
I answered the question.
If you want to discuss it more start another thread.
Al-Irhaab
26-04-06, 05:19 PM
I answered the question.
If you want to discuss it more start another thread.
why are u getting touchy for now...:rolleyes:
answer the hijab question then... and whether or not u think that they have the right to use that 'reasoning' to eat pork...
umm_huraiyrah
26-04-06, 06:17 PM
NOOOO thats how the bible got messed up. Was written and re-written, books missing and so on.......... I'll have to read Ayaat. Since I'm still new........ Peace be up you!!!
Sister Dana
Hassan, when you read quran, do you just skip over these ayaat? Does your quran at home have red-lines crossing out these ayaat?
Would you be willing to volunteer to the zionists effort to recall all qurans and re-issue new, revised qurans?
maybe we should just place all of the qurans in a vault deep under the sea, execute all of the hafiz's and anyone who has memorized these ayats.
After that, we can issue new qurans with only Hassan-approved ayaat included
whaddya think?
Sounds like something that would complete your plans?
outlandish
26-04-06, 07:06 PM
[quote=Peace]
if the prophet (Saw) who never did sin and was the practical example of the will of allah (Swt) inflicted pain upon Aisha (ra) who was amongst the best of women then why do you have a problem with someone doing that now... is the prophet (saw) not the best of examples...
Are u trying to say the prophet saw hit Aisha(ra)? :O As far as I know he never hit any of his wives ever.
As for the hitting ur wife part the hitting is like hitting her with miswak and not to cause any pain.I wonder why men think by hitting ur wife she is gonna get corrected and love u ever more after it. For sure she will hate u more and dont think the marriage is gonna last long if this keeps going on.
[quote=Al-Irhaab]
Are u trying to say the prophet saw hit Aisha(ra)? :O As far as I know he never hit any of his wives ever.
As for the hitting ur wife part the hitting is like hitting her with miswak and not to cause any pain.I wonder why men think by hitting ur wife she is gonna get corrected and love u ever more after it. For sure she will hate u more and dont think the marriage is gonna last long if this keeps going on.
That's what I thought - and always said - until someone presented me with the hadith from Sahih Muslim that I quoted in this thread!
Thought this was relevent
*************************************************
Saudi TV Show: Disciplining Wives and Children
Jasem Muhammad Al-Mutawah, an expert on family matters in Islam, hosts a show on Saudi Arabia's Iqraa TV. [17] (http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR2704#_edn17)In one episode, Al-Mutawa discussed wife-beating while holding a 10-foot pool cue which he said some couples keep in the home. The following are excerpts of one episode; to view in RealPlayer visit: http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_08.rm (http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl.ram?file=realimpact/memri/memri_10-30-02_08.rm)
Al-Mutawah opened the show by explaining: "Imposing discipline within the family is the right of the husband towards his wife, as it is the right of the wife towards the husband. As has always been our custom, on every program we present stories from the home of the Prophet Muhammad and how these stories serve the topic of our program. All the Prophet Muhammad's wives united against him on the matter of meeting their material needs because they had asked for more money, and demanded to live a life of luxury, but the Prophet told them: 'I cannot; this is my material level and this is what I am capable of giving.' On this point the Prophet was resolute, but they insisted on receiving a raise.
"The Prophet, to discipline them, banished them (from his bed) for 30 days until 'Omar Ibn Al-Khattab intervened, to present to the Prophet the wives' desires. But the Prophet was insistent, and then 'Omar Ibn Al-Khattab said to the Prophet: 'Your wives have relinquished their demand'… How did the Prophet handle the matter? With wisdom and calmness. The Prophet did not handle the matter with a rod. We have a proverb that says what? The proverb says: The rod… Ah? The rod for whom? 'The rod is for the disobedient.' What do you think, is it true or not? This is a small rod. I want to take now the large rod… this is not even a rod… Look at this rod with me, look… look… Some husbands and wives keep such rods at home."
Al-Mutawah explains when using the rod is allowed and also on what types of wood they are made from: "I once heard someone say that whenever he has a problem at home he has a very long rod like this. The moment my wife makes a mistake towards me, what I do to her with this rod… We say, then, that the proverb, 'The rod is for the disobedient' is, in truth, a perception that is wrong. On the contrary: The rod destroys our life and our homes. We should solve our problems with dialogue, in truth, we must solve our problems, with mutual understanding because we are human, civilized people. Therefore, every problem in marriage, or every educational problem, we encounter we handle with mutual understanding… The Qur'an states: First of all guidance, advice, and admonition; then, banishment from the bed, and then 'beat them.' When the Qur'an presented this verse, it did not present it for all cases, but for one case out of all ways of female behavior – the case of disobedience. Let's assume that one man, his wife made a mistake, then he comes and says to her: 'I implement the Qur'an on you – advice, banishment, and beatings.' No, brothers, no, sisters… this is a misunderstanding of the religion. So, how should we deal with the other party when they behave with obstinacy and arrogance? How will we impose discipline and change the behavior?
"There is a wife with whom using hard words is useful, and there is a wife with whom it is not. There is a wife with whom using quiet, good words is useful, in contrast, there is a wife with whom if you use hard words her obstinacy will only increase, and thus the problem will get worse. In contrast, there is a wife with whom the situation is the opposite: If you use calm words with her, she will not grasp them, and the problem will continue… We all know that Allah has given authority to the man, including admonishing and guiding the wife in cases of disobedience, banishing her from the bed, and then – the beatings. What is your opinion on the matter?…"
Dr. Muhammad Al-Hajj, lecturer on Islamic faith at the University of Jordan (Amman) was a guest on the show. His opening statement discussed disciplining one's wife: "We in Islam see the family as an institution, an institution that must succeed. This institution has foundations, and it has the elements for its success. Allah gave the management of this institution to the man. This is the concept of guardianship. Guardianship in Islam does not mean repression, concerning which there are penal and moral laws. The issue is who directs this institution, because two people cannot drive a car – there must be one driver. Islam has given the wheel of this car, the car of the family, to the man. The verse discussing the handling of problems that may crop up in the family is included in the passage discussing guardianship: 'Men are the guardians of women,' and then Allah says, 'Admonish those of them on whose part you fear disobedience, and banish them from the beds, and beat them. Then, if they obey you, do not seek a pretext to hurt them.' The order that appears in this verse is a wise order. It is not possible to move to the second stage before the first stage, or to the third stage before the second. The wonderful thing in this verse is that it mentioned this solution for the case of disobedience."
The following are excerpts from the episode:
Guest: "We are not talking about a man imposing discipline every day, asking any little thing of her, and she refuses, and then he banishes her or beats her. Such a thing does not exist in Islam at all."
Host: "All right, doctor, what does 'disobedience' mean?"
Guest: "Yes, Allah said, 'Those on whose part you fear disobedience.' Disobedience is defiance, rebellion, doing deplorable and ugly things about which there is a consensus among the people that they are deplorable. Therefore, not every little transgression at home, such as, she cooked something he didn't want, is considered disobedience. This is not disobedience. Punishment is limited to cases of disobedience, and for instances of making this family into hell, and into an unnatural situation. Then, in order to handle this problem, in the case of the wife's disobedience and rebellion – there must be a cure for such instances – to this end, there is this progression. First, the moment there is fear of disobedience, and even before the disobedience itself happens, comes the stage of admonition: admonition by mentioning Allah, mentioning the rights of the couple, mentioning the continuation of the family and the children's future…"
Host: "And the admonition continues for a long time, not a day or two…"
Guest: "No, no. Obviously, the admonition cannot end in a day or two. It must continue for a significant period, during which all means of persuasion are exhausted."
Host: "The admonition must be done with words, or the [husband] can use a cassette, a video film, a book, a meeting, a course, a magazine…"
Guest: "All these means are included in the method of admonition, which can include also enticements through money or gifts…"
Host: "He can get her an Internet program, so she will learn…"
Guest: "He can remind her of matters concerning this world and the world to come. All these are included in this admonition. And if this wife continues in her rebelliousness…"
Host: "After a long time…"
Guest: "Yes, yes. After all these attempts at persuasion with gentle language, there is still danger of corruption for the family…"
Host: "And the wife continues in her rebelliousness…"
Guest: "And the wife continues in her rebelliousness, there comes another stage, and this is the stage of banishing her from the bed, which is aimed at giving her a sense that 'I am not happy.'"
Host: "Yes."
Guest: "And if she persists and he gives her another chance during this same period and she continues for months, and sometimes even for years, with her refusal and rebellion here is revealed the wisdom of Islam: another means must be introduced. This is the means of the not-hard beatings, and the condition 'not hard' appears in the texts, it is not an interpretation. It is said in the Hadiths of the Prophet that we are talking of 'not-hard' beatings…"
Host: "What is the difference between 'hard' and 'not-hard?'"
Guest: "Hard beatings are those that leave marks on the body or on the face. Thus, beating on the face is prohibited, because the face is a combination of the features of beauty, as it is said. It is forbidden to beat the face, it is forbidden to administer blows that leave fractures or wounds this is what our sages have said in their books."
Host: "Doctor, the Qur'anic verse directs the husband in how to deal with a disobedient wife while if the husband is disobedient, let us assume now the husband is the rebellious one, the husband does not listen, the husband is neglectful, and the husband… rebels! The wife does not have the right to treat the husband in accordance with the three steps stated by the Qur'an. The wife, as it has been written, is restricted to admonition and guidance. She cannot banish him from the bed, and she cannot beat him. Do you not find inequality in this?"
Guest: "No, I do not find inequality in this, because as I said from the outset, the ultimate responsibility for managing the institution of family is given to the husband and therefore when the wife encounters disobedience on the part of her husband, or negative deeds, there is no doubt that she must remark on them and express her dissatisfaction with these deeds; she can go to his friends, his relatives, or her relatives so that they will take care of the problem…"
Host: "You mean that there are other means she can use to handle the husband?"
Guest: "Many means. She can, uh… She can… uh… ask him to get treatment for his problem. All these means. "However, for the situation to get to the point of beating, for example, I think that it is a kind of corruption, if, say, the wife is the one punishing her husband using beatings, because in this there is aggression against (the husband's) rule and responsibility. Besides, Islam has spared her the need to use her hand to beat, in order to preserve the woman's femininity, honor, and morality."
Host: "Doctor, we thank you for the interview and for the good words we have heard from you."
Al-Mutawah ended the show with a detailed explanation of wife-beating and how to deal with Western criticism of such activity.
Host: "The interview with the doctor was most enjoyable, and it gave us some of the meanings, but I would like to add to the doctor's words the claims spreading in the West today according to which, 'You Muslims are not giving the woman her rights; how have you given the husband three means for dealing with (the wife) and not give the wife three means for dealing with the husband? Why can't the woman beat the man?! Why can't the wife banish the husband from bed?!' And I say to you that anyone who studies Islamic religious law – who said that the wife cannot banish the husband from the bed in Islamic law?! Who said that the woman has no right to beat the man?! Do you want me to give you a lesson in Islamic religious law? Read the Islamic religious law and you will see that Islamic religious law gave women this right. There is, therefore, equality. Besides, on the subject of disobedience, there is no doubt that we are speaking of exceptional cases, as we have shown. And this, by the way, is an issue of choice – it is not compulsory. That is, even if the wife of a particular husband is disobedient, is he obliged to admonish and advise, to banish her from the bed, or to beat her? No, he is not obliged. If he says: 'By Allah, I have a brilliant idea that is not included in the three steps,' will we tell him: 'You cannot carry it out?' No, it is not prohibited. He may carry it out. Islamic religious law, therefore, comes to guide; the law comes to protect the family and stability… Therefore, although Islamic religious law permitted beatings, the sages came and discussed the subject of beatings. The most extreme of them was Ibn 'Abbas. I want to show you something that I keep in my pocket. Allah be praised, look… Ibn 'Abbas said that the husband must beat his wife with a handkerchief. Imagine this together with me. Can one beat with rods like we saw at the beginning of the program? No! He beats using a handkerchief! This is the interpretation of Ibn 'Abbas, which is an extreme interpretation. Another interpretation of the sages is that he beat his wife using toothpicks. This is because the point of the beatings is not revenge.
"If the beatings were for the purpose of revenge, the husband would sin. The point of the beatings is to convey a message: 'Oh so and so, I am not happy,' 'Oh so and so, behave yourself, behave like you should.' This is the lesson. Therefore, why did Ibn 'Abbas say that she should be beaten with a handkerchief? Can any of you believe this? Westerners are now coming to us complaining about the matter of beatings. All right, it doesn't happen among us that a wife dies because of husband's beating. And if something like this does happen in our society, it is considered rare, and all the newspapers talk of it, true or not? In contrast, the latest U.N. statistics from 1999-2000 say that every 12 seconds in the U.S. a wife is beaten by her husband and in some instances these beatings reach the point of killing the wife. Therefore, when the Westerners bring up complaints against us regarding our affairs, why shouldn't we be strong and bring up complaints against them regarding their affairs? Despite the existence of the verse in the Qur'an, no cases of death have been recorded in our society, and if there were, then these were rare cases. In contrast, they are without verse, religious law, or law, and despite this, every 12 seconds a wife is beaten by her husband! What is better?! A man must know… Therefore, when we have a dialogue with the West, we must talk with them based on found