View Full Version : To the somalis on this site...
and anyone else who knows about somali history.
be patient with my ignorance when i ask the question
where exactly are we from?
Let me answer this question based on my knowledge, ok my country is in the horn of africa, so i say i am from africa. i was ok with this belief, till i began interacting with many somalis in the past couple of years, and they say "you are not african"
here is where the confusion began, i said yes i am they ask how i came to that conclution, i give them a not thought out answer of basicaly 'my country is in africa'
so they say ''egypt is in africa so is morroco, do u see them as africans, ''
i admit i didnt respond.
I've also noticed that somalis (Not all somalis but the majority do)tend to distance themselves from most africans (excluding Ethios and eritreans cuz of the appearance)... but I've also noticed that it goes both ways.. some westafricans don't consider eastafricans as real africans, which pushes us further away from them..
somalis see them selfs as just somalis, so much so when 1 ticks race box's on application forms somalis tick the box "other" why do they do that?
why not black?
87% of somalis do not recognise them selfs as "africans" but instead as just somalis,
this belief is full of flaws, there are imperfections hence allowing us not 2 fully comprehend, what the state of mind of such people are.
this persentage is huge hence why i worry.
I went on a black forum to see what they thought about this issue, turns out
most africans see the east coast i.e ethopians and somalis as AFRO-ASIATICS.
White people say, they do not see somalis as full africans, there is a mix of some sort.
Asians say the same.
my local newsagents owner, refuses to believe me when i say i am full black, he says u are somali, it gets annoying because when i try to conversate he just smiles, because he doesnt understand english well, the latter is not annoying, the smile is, its a smile which basicaly says oh poor lost confused child, buy and get out of my shop lol
To me race is recognition not a position. but all these different versions of where i am from confuses me,
a friend of mine (somali) once conducted a survey (question: are somalis, ethiopians and eritreans black?) on the bus (subway). turns out almost half of the 50 ppl she questioned said they didn't consider folks from east africa to be black or african for that matter just as they didn't consider the egyptions to be black or african.
one lady went on to say that white south africans cant be called black because of their original roots. And so its the same for somalis,ethios and eritreans, africa isn't where their true roots came from. which i guess is why she didn't consider somalis to be african but considered them to be arabs.
This reminds me of the somali model iman, in an interview she once said "when my career first began i felt rejected both by the whites and the blacks"
i read in a black magazine, a comment about iman which said "white women dipped in choclate"
so here is my question, where exactly do we trace our roots?
one old arab man i met on a train when i was 19 surprised me, he asked where i was from so i said "africa"
he looked baffled then said "you are not somali?" i replied "well yeah," he then says "somalis are not african" this started what was a long conversation, then this man goes on to say, when Islam reached africa, it was because the early arab muslims made hijra to a land named abysinya, which was back then ethopia and somalia combined.
he says many stayed behind, and their childrens childrens children childrens chrildren is you.
i said what? "he says this is why 99% of somalis are muslim, " so i asked if those arabs got with any blacks, he said "yes that is why somalis have arab features." then he says look at your hair nose. "like my daughters"
when i got home, i remember asking the elders of my family, "is there arab in our blood"
60% of those i asked said yes, 30 gave me this long confusing story of how a yemeni man, whom was exiled out, came to africa and its thru him the somali race began! 10% said its a myth
someone enlighten me on the issue please. there are way to many theories about where somalis are from..
i want to know. where my roots can be traced, what exactly do you know?
Somalis are Afrikan
do not get arabic culture confused with race...
Somalis speak arabic and adhere to arab culture but ethnically are Afrikan...and some mixing has gone on with semites of arabia...
But it would be flawed for a somali to reject their aparent Afrikan ancestry and claim arab ancestry...
Ethiopians are indeed indegenous AFrika...Ethiopia gave rise to some of Afrikas most anceint kingdoms...
its interesting to know that before colonial times the arabia was considered part of Afrika...Arabia not including the entire middle east...the cultural bias is apparent in the term "middle east" east of what??? East of Europe...:rolleyes:
but the connection between the horn of Afrika and Arabia was always there ....Abbysinians controlled Arabia for many years...this is why today in Oman, Yemen etc u will find large numbers of black Afrikans...Even Abrahah whom Allah destroyed for attempting to destroy the Kabba was ethiopean....
But that said Somalis are Afrikan...u shouldnt confuse culture and language with race...
yeah some Somalis may reject who they are...but thats the same as the black latinos..AFrican Americans..who will also say they are not of Afrikan heritage but Latino or just American...When in actuality latino is only a culture and language but is not a race...But this happens because Eurocentric veiw point of the world has demonized everything AFrikan so these people would rather be anything else other than Afrikan:zzz:
:torture:
What somalis from another website had to say on this issue
After reading these replies I called up a couple of my relatives and did my own research. So far I’ve learned that there were three brothers: soor ismael, darood ismael and talyen ismael.
Soor ismael left the land now known as Somalia (back then it was Abyssinia) and went to Syria, there he married among the arabs and from there his line started and many tribes emerged. Most Syrians trace their lineage back to him (soor ismael).
As for darood ismael, he went off to yeman; married there and from him many tribes have also emerged. Some of these came back to Somalia (you’ve probably heard of them). The darood people trace their lineage back to him.
And last, there’s talyen ismael; he went off to italy. He married there and brought about his own set of tribes, some came back to Somalia, but most stayed in Italy; Italians also trace their lineage back to him.
Interesting, but this is not enough for me; I think I’m going to do my own research starting with the library. I’ll get back to yall if I find anything interesting.
*hmm, how black am i really?*
ok,information on the brown part will be highly appreciated.
Salaaamz..all
just wanna put my input..
ok..well i personally Vote for Somalis..callin each otha somalians..cuzz we have come from a long way from The arabs..might have originated ther..but definitely not them now..same with the africans..we have african mixed in us obviosly..but we don't look like them no more as a result of the (mixing)..
i would say we are unique so we should stay somalis..and somalians..
..
Interesting topic jade
I consider myself First as Muslim
African
Somali
Laakin majority of africans say somalis are different kind of africans :roll: how weird :roll:
Personally i think most africans have a prejudice towards somalis becoz we are muslims and our culture and value system is different from theirs
she has a point in the last paragraph, i was watching a Uk based documentary on troublesome somali youths, a black youth was being flimmed, the documentary was based on an attack he suffered from a somali, in the car the camera points to 2 somali woman at a bus stop both wearing the hijab, the black boy after a few racist comments says "look at them? how the heck are they like us, man they are not black, fling them to the asians "
i remember being really upset, i wanted to pop him one rude little boy!
to the somalis who say they are just somali and nothing else go take a good lokk at the map is there a continent known as somalia? no you are african whether you like it or not and in the eyes of white people yall ar n*ggers get used to it white people aint gon do you no favors.
and somalis do not look like the arab+african people in africa like the black morroccans the arab sudanese or the amharic and tigre people who came from ancient arabs known as sabeams instead we look like people like the anfar and oromo who have very little arab mixture in them the only people mixed with arabs are the banadiri people.and if somalis started with arbs why do we have stories of people like queen arawlo,oday biiq and wiil waal. stop the stupidity and ignorance and go educate yourselves.even arabs are mixed with african (nabi ibrahim married hajire who was a black african and gave birth to ismael who is the father of arabs)we are not arabs nor do we come from arabs.there is a big difference in saying you mixed with arabs and saying you come from arabs.
somalis are black africans.end of story.
this brothers response was the most interesting, he seemed confident about what he said.
(was hager the wife nabi ibrahim black? some one verify this)
Typical somali stereotypes.
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http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/346/somalis63bi.jpg
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http://hiiraan.ca/2003/june03/images/crd1.jpg
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[I've removed any images which included women's awra, left the rest :) - Anna]
yeah some Somalis may reject who they are...but thats the same as the black latinos..AFrican Americans..who will also say they are not of Afrikan heritage but Latino or just American...When in actuality latino is only a culture and language but is not a race...But this happens because Eurocentric veiw point of the world has demonized everything AFrikan so these people would rather be anything else other than Afrikan:zzz:
:torture:
i recognise the difference between, race language and culture, this trinty is not what am confused abt i understand the latter 2, am confused about the race issue.
why are there no actual facts regarding where somalis truely came from?
every ahmed, kamal and cawale has a different story.
because of the zero facts, i dont claim to be anything, its a bit foolish beliving something simply because thats what u r told, i simply say i am african because my country is there and i am a somali. to summarise i recognise myself as black.
i just get annoyed, when ever i say that a debate errupts. usually centered around how black is quest.
thanks for your informative response.
:rolleyes: Somalis come from AFrika what do u mean u dont know...!!
Most Somali tribes are not mixed with ARAB...!!
U actually think for all those years Somalia was just empty until arabs arrived??:rolleyes:
Some tribes did mix with arabs but most didnt.....
Even with this true why would u traces Somalian ancestry back to arabia:rolleyes: Its still AFrika.....
Many arabs on the penisula have negroid ancestry so should they trace their ancestry back to Afrika??:rolleyes:
Anyway as i said Arabia before colonial times was considered part of Afrika...So next time u meet that guy on the bus u should tell him he should trace his ancestry back to Afrika...not the other way around....
But like i said it has to do with how Europeans and other people throughout history demonized everything Afrikan and made Afrikans hate themselves and love them....So everyone wants to be anything but Afrikan:zzz:
Ethiopians without are indegenous Afrikans and Somalis are closely related to these peoples
The somali people are descended from the Cu****es that inhabited the area before the time of Jesus(PBUH)
Here is an excellent article on the origins of the Somali people and it also explains some of the confusion
http://www.civicwebs.com/cwvlib/africa/somalia/1995/reunification/appendix_4.htm
:rolleyes: Somalis come from AFrika what do u mean u dont know...!!
Most Somali tribes are not mixed with ARAB...!!
U actually think for all those years Somalia was just empty until arabs arrived??:rolleyes:
Some tribes did mix with arabs but most didnt.....
Even with this true why would u traces Somalian ancestry back to arabia:rolleyes: Its still AFrika.....
Many arabs on the penisula have negroid ancestry so should they trace their ancestry back to Afrika??:rolleyes:
Anyway as i said Arabia before colonial times was considered part of Afrika...So next time u meet that guy on the bus u should tell him he should trace his ancestry back to Afrika...not the other way around....
But like i said it has to do with how Europeans and other people throughout history demonized everything Afrikan and made Afrikans hate themselves and love them....So everyone wants to be anything but Afrikan:zzz:
Ethiopians without are indegenous Afrikans and Somalis are closely related to these peoples
dude those faces you are pulling are kinda rude, i did say in my opening thread be patient with my ignorance on this issue, if u are bothered why bother responding?
non the less thank u! and i still thjink u are misunderstanding my integral point, i dont consider myself arab, never claimed it, i simply asked if there is any truth to this theory. so please dont make it look as though i claiming something i am not.
when i say roots, u are saying its traced back to afrikans (presumbly ONLY) but thats the problem, i dont want what u say, i want what the facts say, ur theory of our roots ly withinn africans is not any different to what other somalis who are of the view that we have arab in us say.
as for the old arab dude, his story is full inconsistencies, i dont believe that.
so far all the theorys are just that theorys nothing has been verified
i know for a fact there is african in us yes thats obvious. i am just asking the simple question can our roots be traced back to africans only?
key word ONLY
peace
The somali people are descended from the Cu****es that inhabited the area before the time of Jesus(PBUH)
Here is an excellent article on the origins of the Somali people and it also explains some of the confusion
http://www.civicwebs.com/cwvlib/africa/somalia/1995/reunification/appendix_4.htm
Thank u very much, i will get back to u after i read it and let you know what i think.
jazzakallah khayr
is david bowie a muslim, now that he's married to iman, is iman still a muslim.
Immanuel
19-04-06, 01:09 PM
Somalians, Ethiopians and Eritreans are black, they belong to the black race no doubt about that. Ethiopia as someone already mention was one of the first african communities even the original or ancient Isrealites were black as King Solomon said in Song of Solomon (Songs of Songs) Chapter 1 verse 5 "I am Black....6 "Look not upon me, because the sun hath looked upon me.......
To get back to the point I consider all Africans including Egyptians and Morrocans and the Northen Africans black, based on my own experienced at least the ones I know they to consider themselves black.
The reason I believe based on my own evaluation why alot of other Somalians do not consider themselves black is because and more like arabs is because thay want to have that link with Mohammed and arabia.
Denying who they are is not cool. They are blacks.
The reason I believe based on my own evaluation why alot of other Somalians do not consider themselves black is because and more like arabs is because thay want to have that link with Mohammed and arabia.
Denying who they are is not cool. They are blacks.
some somalis i mean the patriots deny any arab links. they also deny black links, the majority accept a mix of the two
then theres people like me whom say am black and thats that:up:
i just wish i had the historical facts to shut certain people up with. hence why i made this topic, to find out where to trace my roots to and with proof all these theorys give me a headache
Qassami
19-04-06, 08:43 PM
I'm Muslim first and foremost, wa lilaahi al Hamd wal mina... Black second... then Eree third :D
ps. Someone remove that image of that shamless 'iman'.
Abu' Maryam
19-04-06, 09:07 PM
I'm Muslim first and foremost, wa lilaahi al Hamd wal mina... Black second... then Eree third :D
ps. Someone remove that image of that shamless 'iman'.
True please remove the above images as their not suitable in the Muslim public forum- perhaps take to sisters section :insha:
Immanuel
20-04-06, 01:38 AM
Just came across this thought others may find it interesting
Jeremiah chapter 13 verse 23:
"Can an Ethiopian change his skin, or the Leopard his spots.........."
Not even if he changes his religion:rolleyes:
.: Anna :.
20-04-06, 02:54 AM
I edited the images, as explained in the edited post.
Qassami I always thought u were Egyptian or something like that? (from the many times u helped with my Arabic :p)
Anyway despite that I'm not Somali or from anywhere near there, this thread is quite interesting... I always thought people considered Somalians to be African
Anna u should have added that sister in the hijab also :_) i had second thoughts due to a PM i recieved, nevermind though i did send a msg to moayidd to take care of it, if u see this msg and the pics are still there, can u please remove all of them including the old man shukran
oh and regarding ur comment that people saw somalis as africans, your not alone, i did to till i heard them and others say different still though my view that we are africans has not changed.
peace
hey T'eoma
just finished going thru that site, interesting, briefly what where the highlights that u understood ?
MangoChutney
21-04-06, 06:01 AM
i always get cnfused between somalians and Djiboutians...:confused:
Al-Mu'min
21-04-06, 07:00 AM
Djiboutians or french somalis, live up north of Somalians. They speak a similar language. They have a small country whose capital is also called Djibouti.
hey T'eoma
just finished going thru that site, interesting, briefly what where the highlights that u understood ?
The Somali people are descended from Cu****es and most groups claim their lineage from Ham, son of Noah. The interesting thing that I found about that article is how it described the Somalis as being part of a huge trading network. The fact that they were producing iron meant that people would travel there to get iron. These kind of "trading hubs tend to have bloodlines that are infiltrated by other bloodlines.
There is little doubt that Somalis started out as Africans but being a trading hub has diluted the black genes. You have a full range of skin tones as well as hair colours and eye colours that indicate this.
However, there is little evidence to indicate what other groups have moved into the area and this is the source of the confusion as to the ethnicity of the Somali people. Undoubtedly there is Arab blood in the modern Somalis but there are many other groups in there too. Basically Somalia is a melting pot of races based on the original Cu****e nation.
It would be very interesting to see the results of a nationwide DNA sampling to trace ethnicity in the clans because from what I have seen of Somalis, they rank as probably one of the most attractive groups of people on the planet.
Khadhijah
21-04-06, 09:25 AM
Very interesting indeed...
Le Croyant
21-04-06, 05:19 PM
Genetic testing can put an end all this.
All Eastern European jews can b traced back to 4 women.
May b somilia can do so sometime in the future. May the whole world will do it... and will b trace one's origins in much easier manner.
Qassami
21-04-06, 07:52 PM
I edited the images, as explained in the edited post.
Qassami I always thought u were Egyptian or something like that? (from the many times u helped with my Arabic :p)
Anyway despite that I'm not Somali or from anywhere near there, this thread is quite interesting... I always thought people considered Somalians to be African
I'm eritrean but brought up in egypt.... so yea, I get confused sometimes as well :D
The Somali people are descended from Cu****es and most groups claim their lineage from Ham, son of Noah. The interesting thing that I found about that article is how it described the Somalis as being part of a huge trading network. The fact that they were producing iron meant that people would travel there to get iron. These kind of "trading hubs tend to have bloodlines that are infiltrated by other bloodlines.
There is little doubt that Somalis started out as Africans but being a trading hub has diluted the black genes. You have a full range of skin tones as well as hair colours and eye colours that indicate this.
However, there is little evidence to indicate what other groups have moved into the area and this is the source of the confusion as to the ethnicity of the Somali people. Undoubtedly there is Arab blood in the modern Somalis but there are many other groups in there too. Basically Somalia is a melting pot of races based on the original Cu****e nation.
It would be very interesting to see the results of a nationwide DNA sampling to trace ethnicity in the clans because from what I have seen of Somalis, they rank as probably one of the most attractive groups of people on the planet.
thanks for that input, i found many parts interesting in that article, some which verified things i have heard before, the bit that surprised me most was the fact that the somali language had was not available in written form untill 1972, and because of this history was recorded orally (hence the different versions lol think chinese whispers!)
the tribal trees were interesting to, i saw many that i didnt recognise, i liked the fact that there was some info on my tribe. seeing that the article doesnt cover all info on all tribes.
thanks for sharing. i guess a DNA will settle this. untill then my questions can be put on hold.
thanks for that input, i found many parts interesting in that article, some which verified things i have heard before, the bit that surprised me most was the fact that the somali language had was not available in written form untill 1972, and because of this history was recorded orally (hence the different versions lol think chinese whispers!)
the tribal trees were interesting to, i saw many that i didnt recognise, i liked the fact that there was some info on my tribe. seeing that the article doesnt cover all info on all tribes.
thanks for sharing. i guess a DNA will settle this. untill then my questions can be put on hold.
http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
:D
a mu-min
21-04-06, 11:00 PM
actually we have some real somali arabs who are of the arab color.
they also live in mombasa and along the coast.
their is some connection between somalians and yemenis especially arab somalians.
they have no name or a tribe, somalians know whom i am talking about.
reerhamarka dagan xeebaha muqdishow dakaan.
it really is strange because somalians are people who are mix from arab somalians who look 100% arabs to 60% looking arabs and so on.
a mu-min
21-04-06, 11:03 PM
somalians are a mixed race you can tell this from the wide variey of somalians.
some are even arabs who don't know where they came from and have no tribe affiliation.
they are called reer hamar.
i think they are related to the same arab looking people who live in mombasa and along the east african coast. another arab looking people also live in eritrea this is true.
yemenis and somalians have some kind of connection as can seen from the very different faces of somalians.
a mu-min
21-04-06, 11:10 PM
Ibn battatu visits the coast of africa in 1325-1354
Ibn Battuta sails along the east coast of Africa pp. 110-112
I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla [Zeila, on the African coast], the town of the Berberah, who are a negro people. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw [Mogadishu]. Zayla is a large city with a great bazaar, but it is the dirtiest, most abominable, and most stinking town in the world. The reason for the stench is the quantity of its fish and the blood of the camels that they slaughter in the streets. When we got there, we chose to spend the night at sea, in spite of its extreme roughness, rather than in the town, because of its filth.
The town of Mogadishu in Somalia
On leaving Zayla we sailed for fifteen days and came to Maqdasha [Mogadishu], which is an enormous town. Its inhabitants are merchants and have many camels, of which they slaughter hundreds every day [for food]. When a vessel reaches the port, it is met by sumbuqs, which are small boats, in each of which are a number of young men, each carrying a covered dish containing food. He presents this to one of the merchants on the ship saying "This is my guest," and all the others do the same. Each merchant on disembarking goes only to the house of the young man who is his host, except those who have made frequent journeys to the town and know its people well; these live where they please. The host then sells his goods for him and buys for him, and if anyone buys anything from him at too low a price, or sells to him in the absence of his host, the sale is regarded by them as invalid. This practice is of great advantage to them.
We stayed there [in Mogadishu] three days, food being brought to us three times a day, and on the fourth, a Friday, the qadi and one of the wazirs brought me a set of garments. We then went to the mosque and prayed behind the [sultan's] screen. When the Shaykh came out I greeted him and he bade me welcome. He put on his sandals, ordering the qadi and myself to do the same, and set out for his palace on foot. All the other people walked barefooted. Over his head were carried four canopies of coloured silk, each surmounted by a golden bird. After the palace ceremonies were over, all those present saluted and retired.
Ibn Battuta sails to Mombasa pp. 112-113.
I embarked at Maqdashaw [Mogadishu] for the Sawahil [Swahili] country, with the object of visiting the town of Kulwa [Kilwa, Quiloa] in the land of the Zanj.
We came to Mambasa [Mombasa], a large island two days' journey by sea from the Sawihil country. It possesses no territory on the mainland. They have fruit trees on the island, but no cereals, which have to be brought to them from the Sawahil. Their food consists chiefly of bananas and fish.The inhabitants are pious, honourable, and upright, and they have well-built wooden mosques.
Kulwa on the African mainland
We stayed one night in this island [Mombasa], and then pursued our journey to Kulwa, which is a large town on the coast. The majority of its inhabitants are Zanj, jet-black in colour, and with tattoo marks on their faces. I was told by a merchant that the town of Sufala lies a fortnight's journey [south] from Kulwa and that gold dust is brought to Sufala from Yufi in the country of the Limis, which is a month's journey distant from it. Kulwa is a very fine and substantially built town, and all its buildings are of wood. Its inhabitants are constantly engaged in military expeditions, for their country is contiguous to the heathen Zanj.
The sultan at the time of my visit was Abu'l-Muzaffar Hasan, who was noted for his gifts and generosity. He used to devote the fifth part of the booty made on his expeditions to pious and charitable purposes, as is prescribed in the Koran, and I have seen him give the clothes off his back to a mendicant who asked him for them. When this liberal and virtuous sultan died, he was succeeded by his brother Dawud, who was at the opposite pole from him in this respect. Whenever a petitioner came to him, he would say, "He who gave is dead, and left nothing behind him to be given." Visitors would stay at his court for months on end, and finally he would make them some small gift, so that at last people gave up going to his gate.
a mu-min
24-04-06, 08:56 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darod
sorry about the double posts.
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