Quest
10-04-06, 05:36 AM
You know what i will be honest, when it comes to osama i simply do not believe what fox news cnn and bush say.
as far as i know this man never admitted to the 9/11 bombing, nor do the US have hard evidence on him, yes he condones it but thats not the same as saying hey i did it, when it comes to osama i do not no much, but i will admit to the fact that i like his character in the sense that he is very calm and collected, intelligent and reserved. when one admits to this they are labelled terrorists. for god sake get a clue, i hated what hitler did to the jews but i also recognise that hitler was an intelligent man this doesnt mean i was happy about what he did to the jews.
Read the conversation pasted below between me and a muslim dude, it all started when i said hey i like OBL character (as elaborated above) then this muslims goes of on a tangent trying to make it look as though i glorify terrorism, especialy when i disagreed that those whom voted for bush are inocent, all i said was they are not, this muslim then tries to make it look as though i am saying, they should be killed because they are not inocent um hello!
Omega = Quest
OBL has nothing to do with islam, he is on record saying all that trash, where the heck does it say, to kill an american is a glorified act?, the guy, is implying killing any of the 200million plus americans is an act of worship, what islam does he adhere to? he is a shame and a scar on the face of the muslim world, i believe he should be stoned to death.
Sol what shocks me is how u can say all of that based on the information u gathered from fox news and cnn, in any case when it comes to osama i leave that issue with a QUESTION MARK simply because i do not have all the facts, and i am not a lady who makes a decision or arrives at a conclution based on emotion. your opinons based on conjecture and bad logic (in my opinion) are of no importance to me, u are entitled to them, what concerns me is how u believe osama glorifys killing "an american"
This in not true from what i understand, this man has no issues with common folk kafirs, be he american, european or african.
From what i understand osama hates bush and the american government whom according to him are the real terrorists, this is a view i support, secondly what do u think about those common folk americans whom elect bush into office not once but twice supporting his sinister goals ? are they inocent in your eyes ? NOTE: i am not saying blowing them up is justified in the way such acts are carried out,am just asking if they are inocent. so dont jump the gun here, read my lines not between the lines. Tell me
whats the difference between such american civilians and a german civilian whom passed hitler a shot gun which was used to kill a jew ? are they not equally guilty ? The best way to ova throw a tyrant is to take away his support, (in this case those americans whom vote 2 keep bush in office) without them he has no power.
My integral point is osama and his like have a problem with the american oppressors, these oppressors include bush his government and the civilians whom support and work to keep him in office. Bush is the real terrorist infact america was a terrorist from day one, this didnt concern muslims untill the oppression was inflicted upon them.
Islam says stop oppression period, whether its muslims whom are oppressed or kafirs, allah said "i have forbidden oppression for even myself" even history confirms the an disputable fact that america (the country and its leaders from time after time) were oppressors, the birth of US was soaked in the blood of seventy million peaceful Native Americans, followed by the brutal African slave trade. Then the colonial expedition of terrorising the world started with the phoney Spanish-American wars killing over 500,000 Philippinos and she also terrorised Central and Latin America . The killing of innocent civilians climaxed in Hiroshima , Nagasaki , Dresden , Vietnam , Korea , etc. where the art of real mass terrorism was developed. I can go on giving endless examples.
but i will stop here, lets just arrive at one common ground, muslims (be he osama or an average mustapha) whom hate america hate them for one reason only, they are oppressors, whom hide behind the mask of liberation, they give the world legitimate reasons to carry out real objectives which hide a more true sinister goal, no muslim or osama hate america (bush the government and the common folk whom support them) for the mere fact that they are americans. its because they are oppressors.
muslims laid low when the oppression didnt concern them (despite islam saying fight against all oppression ) for various reasons, they woke up when oppression knocked on their doors.
any muslim whom disagrees america are terrorists in my eyes are not only intellectually bankrupt, intellectual midgets, asleep house muslims, but they also carry so called logical guns which shoot nothing but blanks.
"They come to the lands thinking they are the reformers when infact they are the mischeif makers"
"Mischeif is worse then slaughter" (both quotes are from Allah)
as for those quotes Jo presented about osama, they could be distorted, why the heck would CNN FOX, times magazine give a fair coverage of truth ?
these people are bigots, islamaphobes in disguise. they broadcast what helps there cause, not whats against it, this cause is to divide and conquer, to eradicate islam from the face of the earth,
"They wish to extinguish the light of allah, Nay! but his light will keep on spreading"
islam tells u to confirm all that u hear even if its what a muslim tells u, yet we believe kafirs face value.
honestly reading your response made me choke on my cereal. peace
he replies
U are a bigot to the height of the word, i hate to call pple names but, u qualify for this tonight, .
the fact that u call me names just demonstrates your inability to articulate ur views dude, still am not phazed. i would refute you here by proving u wrong, but in doing so i would implie that u could have been correct..
You typed a lot as u normally do with a single point, i think ur energy would have been utilized better if directed to the brain to stimulate 'thinking' hormones..
I wouldnt be so quick to mock someone elses "Thinking" when your own logical gun, back fires on you.
(side note, i type a lot because i prefer clarity in what i say) ..
With the little time i have here, i will try to address the single point u raised, which is 'american civilians electing bush are themselves culprits and should die for decisions made in the oval office by neo-concervatives'. .
You mean the single point you managed to grasp (we will see if thats even true), if u are going to make mention of the 'one point' i made, which u recognised it would be more ethical for u to quote me accurately, the above jibbirish u have written takes my initial point out of context slightly. I said american civalians whom elected bush president, knowing full well what he intends to do, are just as guilty as him. This is a logic even imbeciles recognise. still i never said they should be attacked without warning or be blown up!!
(Side note: because u couldnt precieve the rest of my points in my last response does not mean they are non existent comprende?) .
.There were hardly landslides in presidential elections in the history of america, most of those elections were fought and won with simple majorities opening the door for the desturbing truth of americans being divided in the middle after almost every election.
Wrong, most of those elections were won because the elections were fixed in the first place, explain how bush got elected when algore had more votes ? u say there were hardly any landslides in presidential elections ? what about when kenedy was ellected ? (i dont even see what landslides have to do with this but anyways) .
a lil over 50 percent of americans elected bush to office, .
yes the others (excluding that small numbers whom didnt vote) voted for kerry, who also wanted to wage the so call fight against terror, and invade iraq. only difference is those whom voted for kerry, preferred his plan better.
Translation, they (both bush and kerry) had the same objectives they just had different ways of handling buissness. .
even those who elected him don't deserve to die for bush's decisions.
Technically I never said they did, i clearly said they are not inocent thats all, but seeing that u bought this up, say u have a daughter, X gave Y power by appointing him leader, knowing what he will do as a leader, Y then rapes your daughter, is X inocent despite the fact that he knew Y was going to do that ? and if u had the magic stick what would u personaly do to to Y ?
.
i think before u make conclusions and judge pple u need to understand democracy and bureacracies that come with its establishment. .
what? I havent judged i passed an opinion which was substantiated for.
I understand the joke of democracy, in the occupied world which goes on to give Bush and his homies an opportunity to celebrate ephemeral success. as for the bureaucracy of democracy it structures for the needs of the state, its managed by those whom are in authority, thus establishing if not imposing their ways on all, whilst hiding behind the theory of democracy, when they the people are the minority their views do not count, thus contradicting this whole theory behind democracy which is supposed to be a law by the people for the people, more like a law which caters for the wants of the majority, what if the wants of the majority defie logic and morality ? how does democracy deal with that, how do they then establish a common ethical ground? what if the minority (in this case those whom were against the war ) were right, what does this so called law for the people by the people say about this ? why do they use the word "people" as a whole ? when the law caters for the majority and not the minority even if the minority is correct.
Truth is democracy is for a specific kind of people voting for each other, whom have the same wants and want to achieve the same objectives (whether these wants and objectives are in harmony with human rights or ethics according to democracy its besides the point its irrelevent) all those, having a different take on issues would be excluded and eliminated, so much for the tall claims of equal opportunity and equal rights. Remember this is just the beginning of this kind of democracy. and your already fooled by it.
Democracy is the integral tool the united states use to consolidate police state at home and extend domination abroad. .
There are more issues the american voter holds dear to heart than wars fought away from home, and hardly do foreign policies make a big campaign asset in local elections in most countries, .
Quit saying "American" as a whole, u are generalising, u are using the good ethics of the good americans and applying them to all americans, this is creditential injustice. give credit where its due. Foreign policies and the role it plays in other countries are irrelevent to this disscussion, we are talking about america not other countrys, foreign Policies do play a role in america. and the word "hardly" doesnt remove this stubborn fact. .
, though the iraq war was a major issue in the last american election. Campaigning for an election is very deceiftull and tricky.
well thats obvious dear, whats not obvious is how so called freethinkers fail to acknowledge the true sinister goals behind the legitimate cause bush preachs. those whom do like michael moore are then silenced. the only people whom still vote in the elections for these tyrant rulers are those whom share the same view, want to accomplish the same things, u cannot generalise and implie that all americans were victims of this deceit and trickery during elections. the majority knew exactly why they voted. the numbers of those fooled and those who knew, are not equal the latter outweigh the former. .
there are few things which easily sway votes in elections in democratic establishements, one of them being fear, .
i agree, how ever why emphasise on the few. U sound like an apologetic in some funny way..
[ a good example is what happened in spain after the madrid bombing, the incumbent who was predicted beyond all doubt to come back was voted out, simply because the opposition party, promised they would withdraw their troops from iraq, associating the painfull, cowardly and terrorist acts with their presence in that country thus making them a magnet for terrorists. Bush instigated fear in the hearts of unsuspecting americans, who are busy chasing their self-made time bombs of becoming millionaires, with little time to ponder over the issues deeply, he made most of those who elected him believe he was a true warrior who would protect them from enemies he portrayed as evil wanting to destroy america, the neo-conservatives have a long history of dividing the world into EVIL AND GOOD, evil was all that was anti america and good was america which they believed and still believe is a beacon of democracy on earth. i think u need to read a lot of history and watch some documentaries( if u don' t like reading) a good one is 'WHY WE FIGHT' google it, u can even buy it online. .
the above example is dually noted, but it didnt teach me anything i didnt already no.
we have drifted big time from the core reason behind this discussion which was how u said osama glorifys killing americans, u cannot stubstantiate for this, so in an attempt to do so you take out of context what osama says about americans, by generalising that he means every tom d*ick and harry in america, when osama clearly states ova and ova that he has a problem with the tyrant leaders whom mask themselves as reformers (something the quran testifys to) i say maybe 30 out of 100 times america this america that, when infact i am referring to those whom support, carry out and plan for the war on terror (they mean ISLAM). however this does not mean that i mean all americans.
If osama was anti all kafir, and wanted them all dead, why does he not have a problem with other kafir countrys ? the answer is simple, because they are not oppressors, though now many support and are great allies to america. but thats another topic in its self..
. The average american should be told the truth, but shouldn't be killed, .
.
Yes i agree, The common folk should be told the truth, and they are, its just often told by apologetic muslims whom compromise the diin, so much so this common american feels differently when he learns what islam says as a whole, had he been told str8 forwardly all matters pretaining to jihad, instead of the apologetic muslim jumping hoops trying to mold and shape islam so the logic of a few can grasp it, this common american would have learnt a great deal.
The reality is how can u distinguish the common unbiased american whom wants to understand, from the islamaphobic american whom has successfully been indoctrined with islam is a terrorist cult crap, and further confused as to why some muslims deny jihad, when its teachings are evident in islamic literature.
why not explain jihad, without subliminal games and psychological intimidation, u would see they understand a lot better. Bottom line, people whom wont empty their cup cannot taste your juice. so explaining yourself to people whom are deaf in the sense they dont want to hear u, blind, in the sense that they dont want to see where u are coming from, and dumb in the sense that they want to be indulged with 1 sided logic which they agree with, to arrogant to even consider the fact that their logic could be wrong. is a waste of time. but if
u wish to teach such people be my guest, i say teach those whom seek knowledge, not bigots whom follow conjecture and recognise assumptions as facts
.
The innocent american in alaska has a point when he wonders, i lost my sister in 9/11, and we all voted against bush, and opposed the war, he will next time vote for the war and bush, because, of those evil guys who kill and maim indiscriminately and worse yet, instead of being remorsefull proudly boast of killing children and women who had nothing to do with bush's conquests. .
That innocent american whom did not vote whom opposed the war and lost his sister, needs to apply his logic to facts, Can 9/11 really be blamed on muslims with concrete facts ? why do muslims apologise for this when they have yet to be proved guilty using concrete evidence ?
some kafirs feel that the reason we dont apologise is because we openly or secretly condone what happened, they need to realise there is a difference between condemning and apologising.
Moving on seeing that u are convinced muslims were behind 9/11 answer a few questions for me because i just like many americans whom do not believe the story bush fed them are not convinced
How were all hijackers identified just 2 days after the attack?
Why did all 19 names not appear on the passenger list 2 days after the hijacker list was released? .
Why did the Pentagon release a new video version or translation of the Bin Laden Home video? How could the FBI distinguish between "regular" Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights? further more Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board any of these flights?
Did someone go through the passenger lists looking for Muslim names and label them as hijackers? MOHAMMED ATTA
Did the Florida police provide information that Atta was searched because of 1)an expired Visa, 2) driving a car without a license, 3) because of an incident at Miami Airport?
Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the employees didn't put it on board? Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was his bag?
Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that he would commit suicide? Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental car?
When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
Did Atta leave the US while in training and then return?
Something aint right, and if that american from alaska doesnt sense that its his problem, but there are those who will, those like micharl moore.
9/11 is the biggest conspiracy since lol who shot J.R
honestly there are to many inconsistencies with this story.
Anyone who falls for the rhetoric of these people (bush and his homies) whom cover things up need to get their head examined, In the west they have a saying 'u aint gotta be right , just be persuasive'
Osama and muslims like him are a threat to bushs plans with world domination, so he resorts to the oldest tricks in the books, first u bribe, then u negotiate, then use propaganda, lastly declare war.
we are on the final stage, the distinction between moderate and radical is not one that is defined by their adherence to Islam but how much they are a threat to the interest of the extremist America and Israel . for example, a devout man who is fervent in all his personal rituals but do not have any participation in the political affairs of his oppressed nation would be a moderate.
In contrast even a half or non-practicing Muslim with zeal to voice his opposition to the direct and indirect occupation of his people and land would be classified as a radical. .
[ the prophet warned with very clear words against killing women and children, war was part of the daily lives of the salaf, and they never behaved like these demons, .
the prophet said Woman and children are not to be killed on the battle field if they can be seperated, nature must not be messed with i.e do not destroy trees homes and what not if possible, do not attack an unarmed combat, war doesnt have to be necessarily announced, trangression must not occur, and muslims do not have to sit back and wait when they are opressed, they have to fight back, even if it means taking the beef to their lands.
why all this hype about 9/11 ? about inocent civalians in america whom are killed, not that i dont symphasise with what happened, but why is not the genocides against the phalastinians and inocent iraqis who are killed in areas where the war is not happening given the same emphasise as 9/11 and their victims ? This is double standards, a mockery of human rights, and its embarassing that muslims adhere to this also.
The only difference is, kafir civilians are killed with bombs which blow even the killer up...and muslim civilians are killed with bombs dropped from the air.
Murder is murder in anycase, i do not justify suicide bombing, however i do not see every case of S-bombing as simply just that, there are cases where its clear self sacrifice, "by anymeans necessary" as malcom X said, such cases can be witnessed thru the bosnian war. why do we forget that allah looks to the action as well as the intention, suppose we were on a battle field, fighting our enemie, suppose we couldnt find them for a while, suppose i walk into a room, knowing if i do i will get to take out many of them, my intention being to end oppression, suppose i do enter the room, and in doing so i know i wont come out alive, is this considered suicide?
or self sacrifice? seriously there is a difference .
i think u need to also learn islam, i am gravely concerned about your likes who have very little understanding of islam and thus jump to conclusions. OBL is an evil man with an evil ideology, he is an enemy of islam as bush and his friends are, and we have to counter those two prophets of doom. Allah knows best.
My friend i do understand my diin, if i didnt it would make me a blind follower, I think u should take your advice, many in the past said about the believers things akin to "these people are decieved by their religion" the funny part is those whom said this were infact the ones decieved go figure, i do not condone some of the things the media attributes to muslims like 7/7 bombings in london. and even if muslims did do it i still do not condone that particular incident. nor madrid bombings etc
I think such opperations were intellectually bankrupt, .
here is where we differ 1) i do not think those whom kept bush in office are inocent, but because i dont think this doesnt mean they should be killed for their lack of inocense either, so get this thru ur head b4 u try to label me what ever 2) i dont believe this propaganda face value that u base ur facts from,.
how do u know they didnt find muslim victims amongst the dead, then say they did it.
did any of us see hard evidence ? were we not just told on the news it was muslims ? why the heck would some of the bombers carry documents about the bombings in rack sacks knowing full well they were going to die ?
does logic not see or detect nothing iffy about this ?
a liar is not just a person who spreads falsehood, it is also a person whom cannot verify what they say with concrete evidence, thus leaving plenty of room for assumptions.
am out, its clear u and i have 2 different view points. u think am some brain dead extremist, i think your some indenial house muslim.
all we can do is agree to disagree, i got nothing further 2 say.
1 love
as far as i know this man never admitted to the 9/11 bombing, nor do the US have hard evidence on him, yes he condones it but thats not the same as saying hey i did it, when it comes to osama i do not no much, but i will admit to the fact that i like his character in the sense that he is very calm and collected, intelligent and reserved. when one admits to this they are labelled terrorists. for god sake get a clue, i hated what hitler did to the jews but i also recognise that hitler was an intelligent man this doesnt mean i was happy about what he did to the jews.
Read the conversation pasted below between me and a muslim dude, it all started when i said hey i like OBL character (as elaborated above) then this muslims goes of on a tangent trying to make it look as though i glorify terrorism, especialy when i disagreed that those whom voted for bush are inocent, all i said was they are not, this muslim then tries to make it look as though i am saying, they should be killed because they are not inocent um hello!
Omega = Quest
OBL has nothing to do with islam, he is on record saying all that trash, where the heck does it say, to kill an american is a glorified act?, the guy, is implying killing any of the 200million plus americans is an act of worship, what islam does he adhere to? he is a shame and a scar on the face of the muslim world, i believe he should be stoned to death.
Sol what shocks me is how u can say all of that based on the information u gathered from fox news and cnn, in any case when it comes to osama i leave that issue with a QUESTION MARK simply because i do not have all the facts, and i am not a lady who makes a decision or arrives at a conclution based on emotion. your opinons based on conjecture and bad logic (in my opinion) are of no importance to me, u are entitled to them, what concerns me is how u believe osama glorifys killing "an american"
This in not true from what i understand, this man has no issues with common folk kafirs, be he american, european or african.
From what i understand osama hates bush and the american government whom according to him are the real terrorists, this is a view i support, secondly what do u think about those common folk americans whom elect bush into office not once but twice supporting his sinister goals ? are they inocent in your eyes ? NOTE: i am not saying blowing them up is justified in the way such acts are carried out,am just asking if they are inocent. so dont jump the gun here, read my lines not between the lines. Tell me
whats the difference between such american civilians and a german civilian whom passed hitler a shot gun which was used to kill a jew ? are they not equally guilty ? The best way to ova throw a tyrant is to take away his support, (in this case those americans whom vote 2 keep bush in office) without them he has no power.
My integral point is osama and his like have a problem with the american oppressors, these oppressors include bush his government and the civilians whom support and work to keep him in office. Bush is the real terrorist infact america was a terrorist from day one, this didnt concern muslims untill the oppression was inflicted upon them.
Islam says stop oppression period, whether its muslims whom are oppressed or kafirs, allah said "i have forbidden oppression for even myself" even history confirms the an disputable fact that america (the country and its leaders from time after time) were oppressors, the birth of US was soaked in the blood of seventy million peaceful Native Americans, followed by the brutal African slave trade. Then the colonial expedition of terrorising the world started with the phoney Spanish-American wars killing over 500,000 Philippinos and she also terrorised Central and Latin America . The killing of innocent civilians climaxed in Hiroshima , Nagasaki , Dresden , Vietnam , Korea , etc. where the art of real mass terrorism was developed. I can go on giving endless examples.
but i will stop here, lets just arrive at one common ground, muslims (be he osama or an average mustapha) whom hate america hate them for one reason only, they are oppressors, whom hide behind the mask of liberation, they give the world legitimate reasons to carry out real objectives which hide a more true sinister goal, no muslim or osama hate america (bush the government and the common folk whom support them) for the mere fact that they are americans. its because they are oppressors.
muslims laid low when the oppression didnt concern them (despite islam saying fight against all oppression ) for various reasons, they woke up when oppression knocked on their doors.
any muslim whom disagrees america are terrorists in my eyes are not only intellectually bankrupt, intellectual midgets, asleep house muslims, but they also carry so called logical guns which shoot nothing but blanks.
"They come to the lands thinking they are the reformers when infact they are the mischeif makers"
"Mischeif is worse then slaughter" (both quotes are from Allah)
as for those quotes Jo presented about osama, they could be distorted, why the heck would CNN FOX, times magazine give a fair coverage of truth ?
these people are bigots, islamaphobes in disguise. they broadcast what helps there cause, not whats against it, this cause is to divide and conquer, to eradicate islam from the face of the earth,
"They wish to extinguish the light of allah, Nay! but his light will keep on spreading"
islam tells u to confirm all that u hear even if its what a muslim tells u, yet we believe kafirs face value.
honestly reading your response made me choke on my cereal. peace
he replies
U are a bigot to the height of the word, i hate to call pple names but, u qualify for this tonight, .
the fact that u call me names just demonstrates your inability to articulate ur views dude, still am not phazed. i would refute you here by proving u wrong, but in doing so i would implie that u could have been correct..
You typed a lot as u normally do with a single point, i think ur energy would have been utilized better if directed to the brain to stimulate 'thinking' hormones..
I wouldnt be so quick to mock someone elses "Thinking" when your own logical gun, back fires on you.
(side note, i type a lot because i prefer clarity in what i say) ..
With the little time i have here, i will try to address the single point u raised, which is 'american civilians electing bush are themselves culprits and should die for decisions made in the oval office by neo-concervatives'. .
You mean the single point you managed to grasp (we will see if thats even true), if u are going to make mention of the 'one point' i made, which u recognised it would be more ethical for u to quote me accurately, the above jibbirish u have written takes my initial point out of context slightly. I said american civalians whom elected bush president, knowing full well what he intends to do, are just as guilty as him. This is a logic even imbeciles recognise. still i never said they should be attacked without warning or be blown up!!
(Side note: because u couldnt precieve the rest of my points in my last response does not mean they are non existent comprende?) .
.There were hardly landslides in presidential elections in the history of america, most of those elections were fought and won with simple majorities opening the door for the desturbing truth of americans being divided in the middle after almost every election.
Wrong, most of those elections were won because the elections were fixed in the first place, explain how bush got elected when algore had more votes ? u say there were hardly any landslides in presidential elections ? what about when kenedy was ellected ? (i dont even see what landslides have to do with this but anyways) .
a lil over 50 percent of americans elected bush to office, .
yes the others (excluding that small numbers whom didnt vote) voted for kerry, who also wanted to wage the so call fight against terror, and invade iraq. only difference is those whom voted for kerry, preferred his plan better.
Translation, they (both bush and kerry) had the same objectives they just had different ways of handling buissness. .
even those who elected him don't deserve to die for bush's decisions.
Technically I never said they did, i clearly said they are not inocent thats all, but seeing that u bought this up, say u have a daughter, X gave Y power by appointing him leader, knowing what he will do as a leader, Y then rapes your daughter, is X inocent despite the fact that he knew Y was going to do that ? and if u had the magic stick what would u personaly do to to Y ?
.
i think before u make conclusions and judge pple u need to understand democracy and bureacracies that come with its establishment. .
what? I havent judged i passed an opinion which was substantiated for.
I understand the joke of democracy, in the occupied world which goes on to give Bush and his homies an opportunity to celebrate ephemeral success. as for the bureaucracy of democracy it structures for the needs of the state, its managed by those whom are in authority, thus establishing if not imposing their ways on all, whilst hiding behind the theory of democracy, when they the people are the minority their views do not count, thus contradicting this whole theory behind democracy which is supposed to be a law by the people for the people, more like a law which caters for the wants of the majority, what if the wants of the majority defie logic and morality ? how does democracy deal with that, how do they then establish a common ethical ground? what if the minority (in this case those whom were against the war ) were right, what does this so called law for the people by the people say about this ? why do they use the word "people" as a whole ? when the law caters for the majority and not the minority even if the minority is correct.
Truth is democracy is for a specific kind of people voting for each other, whom have the same wants and want to achieve the same objectives (whether these wants and objectives are in harmony with human rights or ethics according to democracy its besides the point its irrelevent) all those, having a different take on issues would be excluded and eliminated, so much for the tall claims of equal opportunity and equal rights. Remember this is just the beginning of this kind of democracy. and your already fooled by it.
Democracy is the integral tool the united states use to consolidate police state at home and extend domination abroad. .
There are more issues the american voter holds dear to heart than wars fought away from home, and hardly do foreign policies make a big campaign asset in local elections in most countries, .
Quit saying "American" as a whole, u are generalising, u are using the good ethics of the good americans and applying them to all americans, this is creditential injustice. give credit where its due. Foreign policies and the role it plays in other countries are irrelevent to this disscussion, we are talking about america not other countrys, foreign Policies do play a role in america. and the word "hardly" doesnt remove this stubborn fact. .
, though the iraq war was a major issue in the last american election. Campaigning for an election is very deceiftull and tricky.
well thats obvious dear, whats not obvious is how so called freethinkers fail to acknowledge the true sinister goals behind the legitimate cause bush preachs. those whom do like michael moore are then silenced. the only people whom still vote in the elections for these tyrant rulers are those whom share the same view, want to accomplish the same things, u cannot generalise and implie that all americans were victims of this deceit and trickery during elections. the majority knew exactly why they voted. the numbers of those fooled and those who knew, are not equal the latter outweigh the former. .
there are few things which easily sway votes in elections in democratic establishements, one of them being fear, .
i agree, how ever why emphasise on the few. U sound like an apologetic in some funny way..
[ a good example is what happened in spain after the madrid bombing, the incumbent who was predicted beyond all doubt to come back was voted out, simply because the opposition party, promised they would withdraw their troops from iraq, associating the painfull, cowardly and terrorist acts with their presence in that country thus making them a magnet for terrorists. Bush instigated fear in the hearts of unsuspecting americans, who are busy chasing their self-made time bombs of becoming millionaires, with little time to ponder over the issues deeply, he made most of those who elected him believe he was a true warrior who would protect them from enemies he portrayed as evil wanting to destroy america, the neo-conservatives have a long history of dividing the world into EVIL AND GOOD, evil was all that was anti america and good was america which they believed and still believe is a beacon of democracy on earth. i think u need to read a lot of history and watch some documentaries( if u don' t like reading) a good one is 'WHY WE FIGHT' google it, u can even buy it online. .
the above example is dually noted, but it didnt teach me anything i didnt already no.
we have drifted big time from the core reason behind this discussion which was how u said osama glorifys killing americans, u cannot stubstantiate for this, so in an attempt to do so you take out of context what osama says about americans, by generalising that he means every tom d*ick and harry in america, when osama clearly states ova and ova that he has a problem with the tyrant leaders whom mask themselves as reformers (something the quran testifys to) i say maybe 30 out of 100 times america this america that, when infact i am referring to those whom support, carry out and plan for the war on terror (they mean ISLAM). however this does not mean that i mean all americans.
If osama was anti all kafir, and wanted them all dead, why does he not have a problem with other kafir countrys ? the answer is simple, because they are not oppressors, though now many support and are great allies to america. but thats another topic in its self..
. The average american should be told the truth, but shouldn't be killed, .
.
Yes i agree, The common folk should be told the truth, and they are, its just often told by apologetic muslims whom compromise the diin, so much so this common american feels differently when he learns what islam says as a whole, had he been told str8 forwardly all matters pretaining to jihad, instead of the apologetic muslim jumping hoops trying to mold and shape islam so the logic of a few can grasp it, this common american would have learnt a great deal.
The reality is how can u distinguish the common unbiased american whom wants to understand, from the islamaphobic american whom has successfully been indoctrined with islam is a terrorist cult crap, and further confused as to why some muslims deny jihad, when its teachings are evident in islamic literature.
why not explain jihad, without subliminal games and psychological intimidation, u would see they understand a lot better. Bottom line, people whom wont empty their cup cannot taste your juice. so explaining yourself to people whom are deaf in the sense they dont want to hear u, blind, in the sense that they dont want to see where u are coming from, and dumb in the sense that they want to be indulged with 1 sided logic which they agree with, to arrogant to even consider the fact that their logic could be wrong. is a waste of time. but if
u wish to teach such people be my guest, i say teach those whom seek knowledge, not bigots whom follow conjecture and recognise assumptions as facts
.
The innocent american in alaska has a point when he wonders, i lost my sister in 9/11, and we all voted against bush, and opposed the war, he will next time vote for the war and bush, because, of those evil guys who kill and maim indiscriminately and worse yet, instead of being remorsefull proudly boast of killing children and women who had nothing to do with bush's conquests. .
That innocent american whom did not vote whom opposed the war and lost his sister, needs to apply his logic to facts, Can 9/11 really be blamed on muslims with concrete facts ? why do muslims apologise for this when they have yet to be proved guilty using concrete evidence ?
some kafirs feel that the reason we dont apologise is because we openly or secretly condone what happened, they need to realise there is a difference between condemning and apologising.
Moving on seeing that u are convinced muslims were behind 9/11 answer a few questions for me because i just like many americans whom do not believe the story bush fed them are not convinced
How were all hijackers identified just 2 days after the attack?
Why did all 19 names not appear on the passenger list 2 days after the hijacker list was released? .
Why did the Pentagon release a new video version or translation of the Bin Laden Home video? How could the FBI distinguish between "regular" Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights? further more Why was there not one "innocent" Muslim on board any of these flights?
Did someone go through the passenger lists looking for Muslim names and label them as hijackers? MOHAMMED ATTA
Did the Florida police provide information that Atta was searched because of 1)an expired Visa, 2) driving a car without a license, 3) because of an incident at Miami Airport?
Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the employees didn't put it on board? Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was his bag?
Why did Atta place a video "how to fly planes", a uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that he would commit suicide? Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental car?
When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
Did Atta leave the US while in training and then return?
Something aint right, and if that american from alaska doesnt sense that its his problem, but there are those who will, those like micharl moore.
9/11 is the biggest conspiracy since lol who shot J.R
honestly there are to many inconsistencies with this story.
Anyone who falls for the rhetoric of these people (bush and his homies) whom cover things up need to get their head examined, In the west they have a saying 'u aint gotta be right , just be persuasive'
Osama and muslims like him are a threat to bushs plans with world domination, so he resorts to the oldest tricks in the books, first u bribe, then u negotiate, then use propaganda, lastly declare war.
we are on the final stage, the distinction between moderate and radical is not one that is defined by their adherence to Islam but how much they are a threat to the interest of the extremist America and Israel . for example, a devout man who is fervent in all his personal rituals but do not have any participation in the political affairs of his oppressed nation would be a moderate.
In contrast even a half or non-practicing Muslim with zeal to voice his opposition to the direct and indirect occupation of his people and land would be classified as a radical. .
[ the prophet warned with very clear words against killing women and children, war was part of the daily lives of the salaf, and they never behaved like these demons, .
the prophet said Woman and children are not to be killed on the battle field if they can be seperated, nature must not be messed with i.e do not destroy trees homes and what not if possible, do not attack an unarmed combat, war doesnt have to be necessarily announced, trangression must not occur, and muslims do not have to sit back and wait when they are opressed, they have to fight back, even if it means taking the beef to their lands.
why all this hype about 9/11 ? about inocent civalians in america whom are killed, not that i dont symphasise with what happened, but why is not the genocides against the phalastinians and inocent iraqis who are killed in areas where the war is not happening given the same emphasise as 9/11 and their victims ? This is double standards, a mockery of human rights, and its embarassing that muslims adhere to this also.
The only difference is, kafir civilians are killed with bombs which blow even the killer up...and muslim civilians are killed with bombs dropped from the air.
Murder is murder in anycase, i do not justify suicide bombing, however i do not see every case of S-bombing as simply just that, there are cases where its clear self sacrifice, "by anymeans necessary" as malcom X said, such cases can be witnessed thru the bosnian war. why do we forget that allah looks to the action as well as the intention, suppose we were on a battle field, fighting our enemie, suppose we couldnt find them for a while, suppose i walk into a room, knowing if i do i will get to take out many of them, my intention being to end oppression, suppose i do enter the room, and in doing so i know i wont come out alive, is this considered suicide?
or self sacrifice? seriously there is a difference .
i think u need to also learn islam, i am gravely concerned about your likes who have very little understanding of islam and thus jump to conclusions. OBL is an evil man with an evil ideology, he is an enemy of islam as bush and his friends are, and we have to counter those two prophets of doom. Allah knows best.
My friend i do understand my diin, if i didnt it would make me a blind follower, I think u should take your advice, many in the past said about the believers things akin to "these people are decieved by their religion" the funny part is those whom said this were infact the ones decieved go figure, i do not condone some of the things the media attributes to muslims like 7/7 bombings in london. and even if muslims did do it i still do not condone that particular incident. nor madrid bombings etc
I think such opperations were intellectually bankrupt, .
here is where we differ 1) i do not think those whom kept bush in office are inocent, but because i dont think this doesnt mean they should be killed for their lack of inocense either, so get this thru ur head b4 u try to label me what ever 2) i dont believe this propaganda face value that u base ur facts from,.
how do u know they didnt find muslim victims amongst the dead, then say they did it.
did any of us see hard evidence ? were we not just told on the news it was muslims ? why the heck would some of the bombers carry documents about the bombings in rack sacks knowing full well they were going to die ?
does logic not see or detect nothing iffy about this ?
a liar is not just a person who spreads falsehood, it is also a person whom cannot verify what they say with concrete evidence, thus leaving plenty of room for assumptions.
am out, its clear u and i have 2 different view points. u think am some brain dead extremist, i think your some indenial house muslim.
all we can do is agree to disagree, i got nothing further 2 say.
1 love