Quest
10-04-06, 02:51 AM
If u have short attention spans leave now :_)
if not wlc and have patience whilst u read
U see I will not beat around the bush, when discussing the crotroversy behind sura 4:34 as do many simply because many have gone to the extremes of trying to compromise Islam, just so they can ease secular criticism, instead I prefer to keep it real.
The opinions regarding how beat was translated into that verse vary, seeing that some Muslims feel the word “Daraba” has been translated into that verse without wisdom and justice. they argue that daraba, is used in the Quran in several places. Infact 16 times and in nine of those instances, the meaning is to separate or depart.”
Here are a few examples I got from an article I once read, of how daraba is translated to mean different things in the quran.
To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 73:20; 2:273
To strike: 2:60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
To beat: 8:50; 47:27
To set up: 43:58; 57:13
To condemn: 2:61
To seal, to draw over: 18:11
To cover: 24:31
To explain: 13:17
Etc
”The word daraba, is the number one multi meaning word in Arabic, it has so many different meanings, its understandable as to why we find numerous meanings ascribed to it in the quran, as shown above. Daraba is the root of the word “idribuhunne” which is what has been translated as “beat them".
Put the above argument aside for a moment I am not an expert on Arabic so I leave that to the experts. I am more interested in the controversy surrounding the word Beat. And will respond to this controversy using my belief.
Women beating is a problem which exists in most societies, whether u live in the valley, the city, hillside or dessert. Sura 4 is to be a solution to the problem of beating on women, any one can say STOP or DON’T do it period. But honestly is it effective? We have so many laws forbidding it but how come such abuse is on the increase, so much so that in America alone, every 3 minutes a woman is the victim of domestic abuse.
Now the word Beat, will automaticaly make us think in one direction, the direction which basically defines beat as we all know it in the English language, According to Islam women beating is Not encouraged.
Wife beating is not allowed in Islam for any reason, except for the case of Verses 4:34-35 “when the wife intentionally disobeys her husband intentionally in what Allah Almighty has permitted for him upon her,” and doesn’t look after his dignity as he does hers, The verse in question is probably the most controversial, It is the one verse non Muslims run with when trying to constantly paint Islam as some wicked cruel cult. Seeing that it appears to give Muslim men permission to beat their wives, and even worse is used by some of them as a scapegoat. It is an unfair criticism. The totality of an issue must be put into consideration before passing ultimate judgement.
The reason this verse in surah 4 is so controversial, is because anything to do with the word beat is considered cruel maltreatment. People’s minds their carnal minds automatically make them assume the beating mentioned in the quran is the same beating of say the drunk dead beat who lashes out on his poor wife. Or the heartless farmer who beats his animals to a pulp.
They should understand that beat doesn’t necessarily have to mean just that, example we beat drums.
The beating mentioned in the surah, is not even equivalent to the definition of beating which springs to mind. The beating mentioned in the verse is to be used as a last result, and with a condition, a condition whereby pain or harm is not inflicted upon the wife.
When we have a person whom is hysterical and all up in your face, through instant reaction alone you would see one resort to slapping that person, this slap is to encourage that they snap out of their state. We have seen it in movies, through friends and may have even done it once or twice. We have also seen the result, the person whom got slapped automatically calmed down.
Society has no problem with such cases but base great emphasise on the Quranic verse concerning this issue of beating. Beating in this sense bearing in mind the conditions that come with it, is not intended to inflict a physical pain on the woman but rather a psychological displeasure imparting a lesson in which the merited outcome is a change of attitude and one coming back to their senses. Islam says the discomfort felt by the woman in regards to this beating should be similar to one being hit with a feather or a miswak.
This “beating” is not so the husband can lash his anger out on his wife, the intention behind the law must always be considered before applying it, The intention being to put an end to the problem of wife abuse which has existed as far back as one can remember.
By showing man that there are other ways to solve the problem, these other ways being the first two methods mentioned in the verse. In using these methods man will eventually get used to it, seeing that it is effective. Because the problem end’s before he even thinks of resorting to the last method.
Islam use’s a realistic approach, it recognises mans defect for resorting to always throwing his strength around. Instead of telling him not to, when he feels its justified to do so, because he was the one wronged, Islam says he uses two other methods 1st. then as a last resort he can beat her, and even then the conditions attached to what this beating consists of removes the whole concept of beat, its fair to say that the word is a misnomer. For Islam says he cannot, strike her in the face, bruise her body, harm her or inflict pain upon her. If u remove these can not’s from what we consider beating to be. What would u call it?
According to ISLAM, you can ‘beat’ the women when u see disloyalty or ill conduct on her part, so long as you don’t strike her face, bruise her, harm her, and inflict pain upon her. Remove all of these from the word beat as we understand it, can we honestly still call it beat?
What’s beating with all these conditions? Does a word exist in the English language, which defines all these conditions combined accurately? Is it fair to say the word BEAT as interperated in the English language, in accordance to Islam regarding women is a misnomer? It is important that we remember these conditions that come with beating in Islam especially women. When ever we read sura 4.
Is it really possible to beat a woman without harming bruising or inflicting pain upon her? If yes then whatever you did was not really beating now was it? If no, and it is impossible to beat someone under all those conditions, then it substantiates for what Islam says when it says,it came to put an end to domestic abuse not encourage it.
To close when a husband lash’s out on his wife, inflicting pain on her, or degrades her in anyway, he has not acted out in obedience to the Quranic verse, rather he has disobeyed many commands of Allah, Just to mention a few
”. Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them” Quran 2:231
“O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness…” Quran 4:19
“But if they return to obedience seek not against them means (of annoyance): for ALLAH is most high, great (above you all” Quran 4:34
The above verse shows that the husband cannot pick a bone with his wife by digging up old skeletons. With the intent to annoy mock or ridicule her.
Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri “I went to the Apostle of Allah PBUH and asked him: what do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself and do not beat them and do not revile them”
. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"
Note: when something is issued as the last final resort, it should not be used as the first. In doing so you have not followed the code of conduct properly. “The surah in question might be viewed by the west as un equalizing Verses between men and women.
“The idea of beating in any form is not acceptable to them, which had resulted in enforcing rules on the society that prohibit even the parent from beating his/her child (even if this beating is considered discipline) Even teachers in schools
Are too scared to touch their students. This corrupted ideology in the West had created very disrespectful societies.”
www.answering-christianity.com
And the evidence for that is massive. This is because the English language has only beat and from time one hears beat they assume its just that. There is no time to analyse differences and whether or not these differences can be defined as BEATING.
the majority of Muslim women are not beaten by their husbands, the minority perhaps and to be more accurate yes, because I am open minded to the fact that not every one is blessed with a life whereby justice reigns supreme.
“Violence against women is not the monopoly of any single group. Studies indicate that domestic violence affects all segments of society irrespective of race, religion or socio-economic status”.
Domestic violence exists in this world, its unfortunate but the truth is it exists. In the west, in the east, in the south and north domestic violence exists. Islam is singled out simply because it is accused of legalizing this violence, when the reality is it does the opposite,
Islam is a religion of Truth and is Real, and it keeps it real no matter what. So real in fact it isn’t afraid to speak the truth, without worrying about being politically correct.
This is one of the major things, which attracted me to this religion and way of life. Islam reaches out to mankind through reality, not glossed up proverbs which sound sweet in theory, but are non applicable in practice. It is because of this Islam is rapidly spreading.
When Islam says do something, it shows you exactly how it should be done, how it should be achieved. 4:34 is a perfect example. It is easy to say things akin to “Love your enemy” it looks good in theory, but is it real in practice?
How does one go about loving their enemy? Likewise it is easy to say, “do not beat your wives” it looks good in theory, but can all men whom do not think twice about beating their wives obey this in the hour of need? If yes how so? What must he do? The Quran is the only Holy Scripture on the face of the earth that has a direct answer to this question.
Allah understands human beings better then how they understand themselves, why wouldn’t he, he created them, naturally he knows what we are like, but most importantly what we are capable of. It is based upon this superior knowledge that Allah caters to our needs and legislates his LAWS.
Go and preach a doctrine of Love to a man full of rage whom doesn’t think twice about beating his wife. In a moment whereby such a man whom has been totally neglected, pushed to an edge, made a mockery of, humiliated and all by his own wife for no just purpose, as a result the man is feeling helpless, disrespected and most of all USELESS. And full of RAGE.
At a time like this Tina Turner famously said it best when she said “What love got to do with it”, at a moment like the one described, this man wants a method which caters to his character not some glossed up sweet in theory impossible in practice proverb. This method is in the verse, which has caused controversy for decades.
The verse is as follows
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
Take this short scenario for instance, one evening a fight broke out between man and wife, they were arguing and she hit him with a plate, he got angry, he is trying to deal with the pain as well as the fact that he was wronged. He hit her back, when others entered the room; they found her crying and the whole room messed up. Can we say this guy beat his wife?
According to most, he defended himself in a moment of rage even if they do not agree with his decision, According to Allah, he should have first admonished her, second left her, if this failed and he hit her in that circumstance, without striking her face, bruising her, causing her harm or inflicting pain upon her. He did nothing wrong, If he just lashed out and did harm her, he sinned and must repent for what he did to her. More importantly what he did is neither condoned, nor encouraged nor permissible in Islam.
To close let me leave you with a question my prophet Mohammed PBUH asked
"How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)
The implications for this are many, the most important one’s being, such abuse is illogical as well as not recommended by Mohammed PBUH himself, the role model to 1.5 billion Muslims.
To read the entire chapter/surah of Nisa check the link below
feedback wlc
Muslims feel free to correct any of my mistakes
if not wlc and have patience whilst u read
U see I will not beat around the bush, when discussing the crotroversy behind sura 4:34 as do many simply because many have gone to the extremes of trying to compromise Islam, just so they can ease secular criticism, instead I prefer to keep it real.
The opinions regarding how beat was translated into that verse vary, seeing that some Muslims feel the word “Daraba” has been translated into that verse without wisdom and justice. they argue that daraba, is used in the Quran in several places. Infact 16 times and in nine of those instances, the meaning is to separate or depart.”
Here are a few examples I got from an article I once read, of how daraba is translated to mean different things in the quran.
To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 73:20; 2:273
To strike: 2:60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
To beat: 8:50; 47:27
To set up: 43:58; 57:13
To condemn: 2:61
To seal, to draw over: 18:11
To cover: 24:31
To explain: 13:17
Etc
”The word daraba, is the number one multi meaning word in Arabic, it has so many different meanings, its understandable as to why we find numerous meanings ascribed to it in the quran, as shown above. Daraba is the root of the word “idribuhunne” which is what has been translated as “beat them".
Put the above argument aside for a moment I am not an expert on Arabic so I leave that to the experts. I am more interested in the controversy surrounding the word Beat. And will respond to this controversy using my belief.
Women beating is a problem which exists in most societies, whether u live in the valley, the city, hillside or dessert. Sura 4 is to be a solution to the problem of beating on women, any one can say STOP or DON’T do it period. But honestly is it effective? We have so many laws forbidding it but how come such abuse is on the increase, so much so that in America alone, every 3 minutes a woman is the victim of domestic abuse.
Now the word Beat, will automaticaly make us think in one direction, the direction which basically defines beat as we all know it in the English language, According to Islam women beating is Not encouraged.
Wife beating is not allowed in Islam for any reason, except for the case of Verses 4:34-35 “when the wife intentionally disobeys her husband intentionally in what Allah Almighty has permitted for him upon her,” and doesn’t look after his dignity as he does hers, The verse in question is probably the most controversial, It is the one verse non Muslims run with when trying to constantly paint Islam as some wicked cruel cult. Seeing that it appears to give Muslim men permission to beat their wives, and even worse is used by some of them as a scapegoat. It is an unfair criticism. The totality of an issue must be put into consideration before passing ultimate judgement.
The reason this verse in surah 4 is so controversial, is because anything to do with the word beat is considered cruel maltreatment. People’s minds their carnal minds automatically make them assume the beating mentioned in the quran is the same beating of say the drunk dead beat who lashes out on his poor wife. Or the heartless farmer who beats his animals to a pulp.
They should understand that beat doesn’t necessarily have to mean just that, example we beat drums.
The beating mentioned in the surah, is not even equivalent to the definition of beating which springs to mind. The beating mentioned in the verse is to be used as a last result, and with a condition, a condition whereby pain or harm is not inflicted upon the wife.
When we have a person whom is hysterical and all up in your face, through instant reaction alone you would see one resort to slapping that person, this slap is to encourage that they snap out of their state. We have seen it in movies, through friends and may have even done it once or twice. We have also seen the result, the person whom got slapped automatically calmed down.
Society has no problem with such cases but base great emphasise on the Quranic verse concerning this issue of beating. Beating in this sense bearing in mind the conditions that come with it, is not intended to inflict a physical pain on the woman but rather a psychological displeasure imparting a lesson in which the merited outcome is a change of attitude and one coming back to their senses. Islam says the discomfort felt by the woman in regards to this beating should be similar to one being hit with a feather or a miswak.
This “beating” is not so the husband can lash his anger out on his wife, the intention behind the law must always be considered before applying it, The intention being to put an end to the problem of wife abuse which has existed as far back as one can remember.
By showing man that there are other ways to solve the problem, these other ways being the first two methods mentioned in the verse. In using these methods man will eventually get used to it, seeing that it is effective. Because the problem end’s before he even thinks of resorting to the last method.
Islam use’s a realistic approach, it recognises mans defect for resorting to always throwing his strength around. Instead of telling him not to, when he feels its justified to do so, because he was the one wronged, Islam says he uses two other methods 1st. then as a last resort he can beat her, and even then the conditions attached to what this beating consists of removes the whole concept of beat, its fair to say that the word is a misnomer. For Islam says he cannot, strike her in the face, bruise her body, harm her or inflict pain upon her. If u remove these can not’s from what we consider beating to be. What would u call it?
According to ISLAM, you can ‘beat’ the women when u see disloyalty or ill conduct on her part, so long as you don’t strike her face, bruise her, harm her, and inflict pain upon her. Remove all of these from the word beat as we understand it, can we honestly still call it beat?
What’s beating with all these conditions? Does a word exist in the English language, which defines all these conditions combined accurately? Is it fair to say the word BEAT as interperated in the English language, in accordance to Islam regarding women is a misnomer? It is important that we remember these conditions that come with beating in Islam especially women. When ever we read sura 4.
Is it really possible to beat a woman without harming bruising or inflicting pain upon her? If yes then whatever you did was not really beating now was it? If no, and it is impossible to beat someone under all those conditions, then it substantiates for what Islam says when it says,it came to put an end to domestic abuse not encourage it.
To close when a husband lash’s out on his wife, inflicting pain on her, or degrades her in anyway, he has not acted out in obedience to the Quranic verse, rather he has disobeyed many commands of Allah, Just to mention a few
”. Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them” Quran 2:231
“O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness…” Quran 4:19
“But if they return to obedience seek not against them means (of annoyance): for ALLAH is most high, great (above you all” Quran 4:34
The above verse shows that the husband cannot pick a bone with his wife by digging up old skeletons. With the intent to annoy mock or ridicule her.
Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri “I went to the Apostle of Allah PBUH and asked him: what do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself and do not beat them and do not revile them”
. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"
Note: when something is issued as the last final resort, it should not be used as the first. In doing so you have not followed the code of conduct properly. “The surah in question might be viewed by the west as un equalizing Verses between men and women.
“The idea of beating in any form is not acceptable to them, which had resulted in enforcing rules on the society that prohibit even the parent from beating his/her child (even if this beating is considered discipline) Even teachers in schools
Are too scared to touch their students. This corrupted ideology in the West had created very disrespectful societies.”
www.answering-christianity.com
And the evidence for that is massive. This is because the English language has only beat and from time one hears beat they assume its just that. There is no time to analyse differences and whether or not these differences can be defined as BEATING.
the majority of Muslim women are not beaten by their husbands, the minority perhaps and to be more accurate yes, because I am open minded to the fact that not every one is blessed with a life whereby justice reigns supreme.
“Violence against women is not the monopoly of any single group. Studies indicate that domestic violence affects all segments of society irrespective of race, religion or socio-economic status”.
Domestic violence exists in this world, its unfortunate but the truth is it exists. In the west, in the east, in the south and north domestic violence exists. Islam is singled out simply because it is accused of legalizing this violence, when the reality is it does the opposite,
Islam is a religion of Truth and is Real, and it keeps it real no matter what. So real in fact it isn’t afraid to speak the truth, without worrying about being politically correct.
This is one of the major things, which attracted me to this religion and way of life. Islam reaches out to mankind through reality, not glossed up proverbs which sound sweet in theory, but are non applicable in practice. It is because of this Islam is rapidly spreading.
When Islam says do something, it shows you exactly how it should be done, how it should be achieved. 4:34 is a perfect example. It is easy to say things akin to “Love your enemy” it looks good in theory, but is it real in practice?
How does one go about loving their enemy? Likewise it is easy to say, “do not beat your wives” it looks good in theory, but can all men whom do not think twice about beating their wives obey this in the hour of need? If yes how so? What must he do? The Quran is the only Holy Scripture on the face of the earth that has a direct answer to this question.
Allah understands human beings better then how they understand themselves, why wouldn’t he, he created them, naturally he knows what we are like, but most importantly what we are capable of. It is based upon this superior knowledge that Allah caters to our needs and legislates his LAWS.
Go and preach a doctrine of Love to a man full of rage whom doesn’t think twice about beating his wife. In a moment whereby such a man whom has been totally neglected, pushed to an edge, made a mockery of, humiliated and all by his own wife for no just purpose, as a result the man is feeling helpless, disrespected and most of all USELESS. And full of RAGE.
At a time like this Tina Turner famously said it best when she said “What love got to do with it”, at a moment like the one described, this man wants a method which caters to his character not some glossed up sweet in theory impossible in practice proverb. This method is in the verse, which has caused controversy for decades.
The verse is as follows
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
Take this short scenario for instance, one evening a fight broke out between man and wife, they were arguing and she hit him with a plate, he got angry, he is trying to deal with the pain as well as the fact that he was wronged. He hit her back, when others entered the room; they found her crying and the whole room messed up. Can we say this guy beat his wife?
According to most, he defended himself in a moment of rage even if they do not agree with his decision, According to Allah, he should have first admonished her, second left her, if this failed and he hit her in that circumstance, without striking her face, bruising her, causing her harm or inflicting pain upon her. He did nothing wrong, If he just lashed out and did harm her, he sinned and must repent for what he did to her. More importantly what he did is neither condoned, nor encouraged nor permissible in Islam.
To close let me leave you with a question my prophet Mohammed PBUH asked
"How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)
The implications for this are many, the most important one’s being, such abuse is illogical as well as not recommended by Mohammed PBUH himself, the role model to 1.5 billion Muslims.
To read the entire chapter/surah of Nisa check the link below
feedback wlc
Muslims feel free to correct any of my mistakes