View Full Version : Very Important Question
ur_yusra
14-02-06, 09:02 PM
I dont know if this is the right thread to post this on but anyway...
I need to know something very important.. and if anyone can help me on this I would fully appreciate it..
The question is how does one treat the Quran? The Quran as a book .. now by this I mean the following..
I was taught by family etc that the Quran must not be placed on the floor. If someone is reading the Quran say on the floor then you cannot sit on a chair i.e be placed higher then the Quran. All of this is done in the name of respecting the Holy Kitaab. This can sometimes deter one from reading it when so many rules are applied to the very handling of the Quran.
As I grew up I met some very pious people who had utmost respect for the deen in general. However when they read the Quran they would not apply the rules just mentioned. For example they would sometimes even place the book on the floor.. After having opened my mind to this I was told that all these rules being placed on the handling of the Quran are cultural. It seems that people treat the Quran like gold dust, placing it on high cupboards, not realising the dust that builds on it and its almost as if they are preserving the book but ignoring what it teaches.
So is it ok to put the Quran on the floor.. I know this may sound stupid.. but oh well.. :)
I dont know if this is the right thread to post this on but anyway...
I need to know something very important.. and if anyone can help me on this I would fully appreciate it..
The question is how does one treat the Quran? The Quran as a book .. now by this I mean the following..
I was taught by family etc that the Quran must not be placed on the floor. If someone is reading the Quran say on the floor then you cannot sit on a chair i.e be placed higher then the Quran. All of this is done in the name of respecting the Holy Kitaab. This can sometimes deter one from reading it when so many rules are applied to the very handling of the Quran.
As I grew up I met some very pious people hwo had utmost respect for the deen in general. However when they read the Quran they would not apply the rules just mentioned. For example they would sometimes even place the book on the floor.. After having opened my mind to this I was told that all these rules being placed on the handling of the Quran are cultural. It seems that people treat the Quran like gold dust, placing it on high cupboards, not realising the dust that builds on it and its almost as if they are preserving the book but ignoring what it teaches.
So is it ok to put the Quran on the floor.. I know this may sound stupid.. but oh well.. :)
noo..sis...ure not sttupid at all..its a darn good Q...i came across it when i visited saudi this yr..
i was abgry that women weere act disrepecting the quran..i told em yet they remained stubborn..
in conclusion sis..its cultural i guess its sad that many sisters dont see it as wrong and disrespectful to the sacred words of Allah SWT..so no its not allowed...:up:
Le Croyant
14-02-06, 09:13 PM
It depends...
if u keep on the ground it & u r sitting next to it its ok. But if u keep it on the ground and ppl r walking over it and kicking it (even by mistake) is not ok.
In the sub-continent, sitting on chair while the quran is on the ground is frowned upon but in arab world the concept is not there as its not part of thier culture and dont even know abt it.
It depends...
if u keep on the ground it & u r sitting next to it its ok. But if u keep it on the ground and ppl r walking over it and kicking it (even by mistake) is not ok.
In the sub-continent, sitting on chair while the quran is on the ground is frowned upon but in arab world the concept is not there as its not part of thier culture and dont even know abt it.
uh im afraid sis that im gna have to disagree with u there...in islam we have to respect the sacred words of allah..wether the rabs do it or not is nothing to do with this..the issue is placing th equran on the floor which is stricty prohibited..dont make ure own fatwahs up!
Le Croyant
14-02-06, 09:21 PM
btw i am bro
whr does it say we can't keep it on the floor? I have never ever come across such a ruling.
btw i am bro
whr does it say we can't keep it on the floor? I have never ever come across such a ruling.
tut tut..proceed to the fiqh..thatll explain...respect bro RESPECT FOR ALLAHS WORDS..
lonely_me
14-02-06, 09:33 PM
What I know, and from the different cultural backgrounds I come from , The Holy book is never placed on the floor respecting its content.
I, also, was attending a lecture and the lecturer said that some scholars don't enter the bathroom with their 'pens'... they used to leave them out as Allah swears by 'the pen' ... I don't know... that was new for me.
Le Croyant
14-02-06, 09:40 PM
tut tut..proceed to the fiqh..thatll explain...respect bro RESPECT FOR ALLAHS WORDS..
Sis, i asked ur for help & mock me.
I respect Allah's word but keeping on ground = disrespect is due to culture rather than what religion dictates unless u provide me with something that confirms what u say.
The same can b seen among muslims of the sub-continent abt facing thier feet towards the Qiblah, whr did that come from?
alburaq
14-02-06, 09:55 PM
I dont know if this is the right thread to post this on but anyway...
I need to know something very important.. and if anyone can help me on this I would fully appreciate it..
The question is how does one treat the Quran? The Quran as a book .. now by this I mean the following..
I was taught by family etc that the Quran must not be placed on the floor. If someone is reading the Quran say on the floor then you cannot sit on a chair i.e be placed higher then the Quran. All of this is done in the name of respecting the Holy Kitaab. This can sometimes deter one from reading it when so many rules are applied to the very handling of the Quran.
As I grew up I met some very pious people who had utmost respect for the deen in general. However when they read the Quran they would not apply the rules just mentioned. For example they would sometimes even place the book on the floor.. After having opened my mind to this I was told that all these rules being placed on the handling of the Quran are cultural. It seems that people treat the Quran like gold dust, placing it on high cupboards, not realising the dust that builds on it and its almost as if they are preserving the book but ignoring what it teaches.
So is it ok to put the Quran on the floor.. I know this may sound stupid.. but oh well.. :)
my answer to the question is NO we should not place the quran on the floor because it is the word of good and should be treated with alot of care.:up: One who may place it on the floor would make me feel that was a sign of disrespect......;)
ur_yusra
14-02-06, 10:01 PM
the point of this whole thing is to seperate culture from authenticity..
Al-Irhaab
14-02-06, 10:22 PM
its forbidden to disrespect the quran...
each culture has its own views on what disrespect is...
for the south east asia culture...
turning your back to the quran is disrespect
putting it on the floor is disrespect
sitting above it is disrespect
putting it in a lower place then something else is disrespect...
however for other cultures this is not true...
personally in the madjid i put the quran on the floor to read often ...
ur_yusra
14-02-06, 10:34 PM
yeh.. but it just doesnt 'feel right' to put the Qur'aan on the floor.. its weird how some people do it so easily without thinking twice.. Its common amongst some arabs.. but I mean they don't see nothing wrong with it at all..
Emelianenko
14-02-06, 10:34 PM
well we have to look into the lives of sahabah i guess..cus in the lifetime of nabi saw it was not as a book.only after the death of nabi saw after a group of huffaz were martyrd the sahabah decided to make it into book form for those tht come after..but naturally we shud have utmost respect for the words of Allah..all dis turning ur bak to it or when on chair stuff is over d top..but putting the Quran on the floor is a no no.
Al-Irhaab
14-02-06, 10:58 PM
well we have to look into the lives of sahabah i guess..cus in the lifetime of nabi saw it was not as a book.only after the death of nabi saw after a group of huffaz were martyrd the sahabah decided to make it into book form for those tht come after..but naturally we shud have utmost respect for the words of Allah..all dis turning ur bak to it or when on chair stuff is over d top..but putting the Quran on the floor is a no no.
yeah but what im saying quran on floor is a no no cus of culture cus in our culture is disrespect which is fair enough... but for me like cus i spend most time with arabs i started doing it cus is not disrespectful for me... but its fine if people do find it disrespectful at end of day these things vary from area to area..
yeah but what im saying quran on floor is a no no cus of culture cus in our culture is disrespect which is fair enough... but for me like cus i spend most time with arabs i started doing it cus is not disrespectful for me... but its fine if people do find it disrespectful at end of day these things vary from area to area..
culture? r u out of ure mind? get a life irhaab..u shud be ashamed of ureself..thos are ALlahs words dont disrespect em...hu eva sed culture can choose what to respect..to hell with culture...Islam says to respect the Holy Quran!!!
Al-Irhaab
14-02-06, 11:28 PM
culture? r u out of ure mind? get a life irhaab..u shud be ashamed of ureself..thos are ALlahs words dont disrespect em...hu eva sed culture can choose what to respect..to hell with culture...Islam says to respect the Holy Quran!!!
ok sis calm down... now uve studied islam... what does urf mean in regards to adhab?
where do u think the sahaba used to put the quran... they didnt have tables or cupboards...
dksadiq
14-02-06, 11:51 PM
culture? r u out of ure mind? get a life irhaab..u shud be ashamed of ureself..thos are ALlahs words dont disrespect em...hu eva sed culture can choose what to respect..to hell with culture...Islam says to respect the Holy Quran!!!
I dont know what the ruling is as per placing the Qur'an on the floor and the following is not to prove or disprove anything in relation to the Qur'an. Its just to prove that sometimes, culture and customs may have a place in Islam.
A quote from www.islamqa.com (http://www.islamqa.com)
(click here for whole article : http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=68815&dgn=4)
Secondly:
Once this is understood, although the worshipper must adorn himself for prayer, this adornment may vary from one country to another, according to their customs, including what is mentioned in the question, which is praying in a garment with half-sleeves or praying bare-headed. If the custom of that land is that the best adornment is to cover the head or to pray in a garment with full sleeves, then praying when one is dressed as mentioned in the question is contrary to what Allaah has enjoined, even if the prayer itself is valid. But if the custom of the people in that country is to dress as described in the question, then there is nothing wrong with praying dressed in this manner.
It should be noted that the ruling also varies according to variations in the dress itself. The garment may have short sleeves and that may be customarily worn in some countries where it may be worn as an adornment, or a man may go to work in it and so on. In that case there is nothing wrong with praying in it. Or it may be the custom that this is not a kind of adornment, and it is something that a man wears at home only, or when sleeping only, in which case it is not appropriate to pray in it.
SoulAsylum
14-02-06, 11:56 PM
ok sis calm down... now uve studied islam... what does urf mean in regards to adhab?
where do u think the sahaba used to put the quran... they didnt have tables or cupboards...
How about in your lap?
salam
i think you should all calm down. but i do understand that there are rude and mocking ppl around who claim to be following the prophet (slm).
it is fact that the arab city dwellers have changed a lot in the last 100 years and given up many traditions rooted in islam.
i have seen arabs placing the mus-haf on the floor without any regard and i used to do the same.
it's definately not an indopak thing to honour the quran and give it utmost respect. this was the way of all our predecessors.
although it is rather disturbing and annoying when i am reading the quran sitting in the middle of the mosque and somebody comes to tell me to go and sit at the front, so nobody walks in front of the quran (?)
i tend not to go this far, but i could be wrong.
i would recommend the questioner UR_YUSRA to join sunniforum.
How about in your lap?
ye and how about all those sacrifices the sahabas had made?? an so what? arabs are arabs...not all of them put the qurano on the floor..my mates who live in makkah madinah and jeddah they do not put the quran on the floor...because they know that it is disrespect...so culture maybe...to hell with culture again..stick to islam...ull get sumwhere.
btw this is to bro alirhaab...(ure very good at twisting...not so good after all):rolleyes:
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 01:49 PM
ye and how about all those sacrifices the sahabas had made?? an so what? arabs are arabs...not all of them put the qurano on the floor..my mates who live in makkah madinah and jeddah they do not put the quran on the floor...because they know that it is disrespect...so culture maybe...to hell with culture again..stick to islam...ull get sumwhere.
btw this is to bro alirhaab...(ure very good at twisting...not so good after all):rolleyes:
ok look to make it simple... because i thought ud understand but oviously u dont...
it is haram to disrespect the quran...
however !!! every culture has its own rating as to what disrespect it... so for the arabs at the time of the prophet (Saw) it was not disrespectful to the put the quran on the floor!!! and for many of the arabs it still isnt....
for the indo paks it is disrespectful and its disrespectful to turn your back to it or to sit above it, or leave it open etc...
for the central asians its disrespectful to put the quran on the floor but fine to sit above it or to turn your back to it.
for the different african communities and the indonesians etc im not sure...
so basically the urf ie the custom of the people in the area is what decides what is respect and what is disrespect...
so for you to say its haram for the arabs to do so then please bring your daleel bring evidence not just that its disrespectful because for them its not disrespectful at all....
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 01:54 PM
ye and how about all those sacrifices the sahabas had made?? an so what? arabs are arabs...not all of them put the qurano on the floor..my mates who live in makkah madinah and jeddah they do not put the quran on the floor...because they know that it is disrespect...so culture maybe...to hell with culture again..stick to islam...ull get sumwhere.
btw this is to bro alirhaab...(ure very good at twisting...not so good after all):rolleyes:
erm.. yeh I agree but the issue is not black and white.. because if it was then people who I consider pious would not be placing it on the floor if they thought it was utterly disrespectful.. I think thats what Al-Irhaab was trying to say..
anyway the point is not about peoples PERCEPTION of disrespect.. at the end of the day we want to know how the sahaba treated the Quran.. as that would be the most reliable source..
the sahabas used to place the quran on a high place...
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 02:47 PM
the sahabas used to place the quran on a high place...
proof please.... the arabs at the time used to place quran on the floor ... it was not classed as disrespect to them...
proof please.... the arabs at the time used to place quran on the floor ... it was not classed as disrespect to them...
how bout u give me the proof too?i will give u th eproof asap.
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 02:54 PM
how bout u give me the proof too?i will give u th eproof asap.
i take from what ive been told by an alim :D
but i will see if i can get anything cus i was told a long time ago ...
i take from what ive been told by an alim :D
but i will see if i can get anything cus i was told a long time ago ...
u was told???:D IRHAAB...the proof..i will deliver mine asap..im working on it with an aalim;)
Etiquettes of Reading and Handling the Qur'an al-Kareem (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1866&CATE=32)
jazakz for that...here u go...
Al Irhaab it seems u were wrong..:D
21. to place the Qur’an on one’s lap when reading; or on something in front of one, not on the floor;
jazakz for that...here u go...
Al Irhaab it seems u were wrong..:D
21. to place the Qur’an on one’s lap when reading; or on something in front of one, not on the floor;
I dunno, doesn't it just seem logical? Why put the Quran on a surface that's stepped on? Br. Al-Irhaab, you mentioned that to many arabs, it's okay to place the Quran on the floor? Hmm... I remember when I was a kid, if the Quran ever touched the floor, I would get scolded. Also, you mentioned that the sahaba didn't have any tables? Really? Let's say that was the case. Now, I believe most of us have tables, desks, cupboards, so why put it on the floor when it can be placed in a higher place, to be protected.
To me, it's better to avoid doing something that might be wrong or disrespectful. And Allah knows best.
~ Ayah
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 03:36 PM
jazakz for that...here u go...
Al Irhaab it seems u were wrong..:D
21. to place the Qur’an on one’s lap when reading; or on something in front of one, not on the floor;
this is what the opinion of a group of ulema from a certain area about what it means to respect the quran... what have i been saying from the beggining :rolleyes: depending on which area you come form and what your culture is then respect will have different meanings... to the pakistani and indian ulema its disrespectful to put the quran on the floor as in their customs you to put something on the floor means it has no value... in the arab culture this is not the case...
this is what the opinion of a group of ulema from a certain area about what it means to respect the quran... what have i been saying from the beggining :rolleyes: depending on which area you come form and what your culture is then respect will have different meanings... to the pakistani and indian ulema its disrespectful to put the quran on the floor as in their customs you to put something on the floor means it has no value... in the arab culture this is not the case...
accept what ure saying is wrong irhaab...why remain stubborn..???
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 03:39 PM
accept what ure saying is wrong irhaab...why remain stubborn..???
you accept what your saying is wrong why do u remain stubborn :rolleyes:
in the arab culture this is not the case...
:scratch: But I'm arab and have that same understanding. *shrugs*
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 03:47 PM
:scratch: But I'm arab and have that same understanding. *shrugs*
lol... aah i guess there are differences among arabs.. I know arabs at uni who dnt have a problem with putting the Quran on the floor.. like when we have tajweed lessons.. they place it on the floor without second thought..
lol... aah i guess there are differences among arabs.. I know arabs at uni who dnt have a problem with putting the Quran on the floor.. like when we have tajweed lessons.. they place it on the floor without second thought..
so ur yusra sis what dyu take into conclusion?
fraudster
15-02-06, 04:13 PM
i know someone who went hajj this year----he was in a mosque----he never said which mosque this was in----some guy wanted to close a window-----he couldnt reach----so he got the quran---he used it as a step ----he actually stepped on the quran then shut the window- he went up to him but ====he dont know arabic and the other geeza dont know english----so all he done was got the quran and said "allah" "allah"----he was trying to tell the guy this is allahs book----have respect for it.
--i doubt the other guy understood-
I was always taught the following:
Never handle Quran without wudhu
Don't place it on the floor.
You may place it on your lap, but preferably use the wooden book holder things.
When not in use, place it in an area, storage etc that is higher/above your head.
Don't walk infront of someone who is reading the Quran
Don't sit with your back to the Quran
Don't place the Quran on a chair/bench or any similar item which you sit on (or anyone else sits on)
They are the only one's I can think of.
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 04:34 PM
ye and how about all those sacrifices the sahabas had made?? an so what? arabs are arabs...not all of them put the qurano on the floor..my mates who live in makkah madinah and jeddah they do not put the quran on the floor...because they know that it is disrespect...so culture maybe...to hell with culture again..stick to islam...ull get sumwhere.
btw this is to bro alirhaab...(ure very good at twisting...not so good after all):rolleyes:
Yeh.........rite on bint :up:.
There shuld be no place for culture in islam........well there shuld but u see what i mean.
Yeh.........rite on bint :up:.
There shuld be no place for culture in islam........well there shuld but u see what i mean.
jazakallah...id like to see what bro irhaab says in regards to this.:rolleyes:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 04:42 PM
jazakallah...id like to see what bro irhaab says in regards to this.:rolleyes:
Give him like a couple of hours to respond :rolleyes:
.: Anna :.
15-02-06, 04:51 PM
jazakallah...id like to see what bro irhaab says in regards to this.:rolleyes:
Everyone is here to learn, and comments like this with rolling eyes and a disdainful tone do not make it a pleasant learning environment.
muslim warrior0
15-02-06, 04:52 PM
deleted....
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 04:53 PM
Everyone is here to learn, and comments like this with rolling eyes and a disdainful tone do not make it a pleasant learning environment.
Wrks both ways Anna.......no need telling Bint abt it. If ur gonna tell her, tell Irhaab as well.
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 04:54 PM
Everyone is here to learn, and comments like this with rolling eyes and a disdainful tone do not make it a pleasant learning environment.
Are we talking bt the same forum :rubeyes:
My eyes decieve me.
.: Anna :.
15-02-06, 04:59 PM
Wrks both ways Anna.......no need telling Bint abt it. If ur gonna tell her, tell Irhaab as well.Its for everyone. But Bint is the one I noticed and therefore quoted.
Just try and keep a pleasant attitude, we are all Muslims (mostly, didnt notice ne non muslims in here)
fraudster
15-02-06, 05:00 PM
i know someone who went hajj this year----he was in a mosque----he never said which mosque this was in----some guy wanted to close a window-----he couldnt reach----so he got the quran---he used it as a step ----he actually stepped on the quran then shut the window- he went up to him but ====he dont know arabic and the other geeza dont know english----so all he done was got the quran and said "allah" "allah"----he was trying to tell the guy this is allahs book----have respect for it.
--i doubt the other guy understood-
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 05:05 PM
Yeh.........rite on bint :up:.
There shuld be no place for culture in islam........well there shuld but u see what i mean.
well then why does imam abu hanifa say u shld look to the urf of a people when making a decision in regards to them
well then why does imam abu hanifa say u shld look to the urf of a people when making a decision in regards to them
ahem..irhaab stick to the topic!:rolleyes:
Its for everyone. But Bint is the one I noticed and therefore quoted.
Just try and keep a pleasant attitude, we are all Muslims (mostly, didnt notice ne non muslims in here)
lol..sis funny u shud notice me..those emoticons are there for a reason..its a harmless debate..nothing personal. Irhaab is a good bro.:rolleyes:
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 06:11 PM
ahem..irhaab stick to the topic!:rolleyes:
that is the topic... the urf of the people... respect and disrespect is based on the urf of the people...
in some cultures it is disrespectful for a son to look into the eyes of his father when they are talking, therefore this would not be allowed for him to do because he would be disrespecting his dad, in other cultures there is not a problem doing this so it would be fine for him to do...
that is what imam abu hanifa (ra) discussed about when he talked about giving hukms based on urf of the society the hukm was given in.
that is the topic... the urf of the people... respect and disrespect is based on the urf of the people...
in some cultures it is disrespectful for a son to look into the eyes of his father when they are talking, therefore this would not be allowed for him to do because he would be disrespecting his dad, in other cultures there is not a problem doing this so it would be fine for him to do...
that is what imam abu hanifa (ra) discussed about when he talked about giving hukms based on urf of the society the hukm was given in.
al irhaab listen we are talking about islam not culture...what does islam say???;)
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 07:32 PM
al irhaab listen we are talking about islam not culture...what does islam say???;)
what is it that u dont understand ISLAM says u look at the urf ie the culture in regards to these kinds of things, so each culture has its own issue... where did YOU get the idea that it was haram to put the quran ont he floor, because YOUR culture tells you its disrespectful... other cultures dont think it is so therfore islamically it is allowed for them...
Well Yusra sis...
I dont what the exact ruling on this is.......I dont know of the examples of how the Sahaabah (rdn) handled the Qur'aan....I mean, the Qur'aan in those days was written on peices of parchment and rock...how would the sahaabah store this ??? Would they have worried about all these peices being in high places, and always being in their laps??
but my personal experience and view has been that there is nothing wrong with having the Qu'aan on the floor, if you are sitting on the floor or if you are at the mosque etc.... I doubt there is any authenticity in the fact that you shouldnt walk in front of someone reading qur'aan or turn your back to the qur'aan.....definately looks like culture here....obviously certain things like having wudu, and issues regarding menstrating women, are quite clear....I dont think the Qur'aan has to necessarily be in a high place either........
Intentionally disrespecting the qur'aan, you know, like not caring how you handle it, obviously we shouldn't handle it like we would a normal book....being careless with it and dropping it, putting it in a place where it may get dirty etc etc is no doubt disliked, and these are simple things we can avoid...... but that bro who used it as a step up.....sheesh......
The Qur'aan is a book of recitation, culture puts too much emphasis on the book, the ink and paper.....and the same cultural people may not even read the actual words of Allah (swt) properly ???
Is it not more disrespectful to read the qur'aan heedlessly, with no tajweed, with no contemplation, and maybe reading it fast..then it is to put it on the floor when you are sitting down at home or in the mosque????? :rolleyes: We should respect the Qur'aan by memorising it, reciting it properly and teaching others FIRST........
what is it that u dont understand ISLAM says u look at the urf ie the culture in regards to these kinds of things, so each culture has its own issue... where did YOU get the idea that it was haram to put the quran ont he floor, because YOUR culture tells you its disrespectful... other cultures dont think it is so therfore islamically it is allowed for them...
Yaa Allah ure boggling my head now irhaab...BUT i dont give up...i will show u some proof..however hard it may be..i talked to an alim..hell show me some stuff..hes pretty busy so dunno when heel get bak to me..as they say..PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE;)
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 07:40 PM
well then why does imam abu hanifa say u shld look to the urf of a people when making a decision in regards to them
Cant be to do with such a weighty book as the quran. There is adaab when handling the quran and dos and donts. So ur argument of urf is not valid here. The quran is the holy book of Allah and there are prescribed methods to adhere by when handling and reciting the quran to respect the sanctity and saacredness of the holy book.
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 07:41 PM
Well Yusra sis...
I dont what the exact ruling on this is.......I dont know of the examples of how the Sahaabah (rdn) handled the Qur'aan....I mean, the Qur'aan in those days was written on peices of parchment and rock...how would the sahaabah store this ??? Would they have worried about all these peices being in high places, and always being in their laps??
but my personal experience and view has been that there is nothing wrong with having the Qu'aan on the floor, if you are sitting on the floor or if you are at the mosque etc.... I doubt there is any authenticity in the fact that you shouldnt walk in front of someone reading qur'aan or turn your back to the qur'aan.....definately looks like culture here....obviously certain things like having wudu, and issues regarding menstrating women, are quite clear....I dont think the Qur'aan has to necessarily be in a high place either........
Intentionally disrespecting the qur'aan, you know, like not caring how you handle it, obviously we shouldn't handle it like we would a normal book....being careless with it and dropping it, putting it in a place where it may get dirty etc etc is no doubt disliked, and these are simple things we can avoid...... but that bro who used it as a step up.....sheesh......
The Qur'aan is a book of recitation, culture puts too much emphasis on the book, the ink and paper.....and the same cultural people may not even read the actual words of Allah (swt) properly ???
Is it not more disrespectful to read the qur'aan heedlessly, with no tajweed, with no contemplation, and maybe reading it fast..then it is to put it on the floor when you are sitting down at home or in the mosque????? :rolleyes: We should respect the Qur'aan by memorising it, reciting it properly and teaching others FIRST........
yeh good points there ... u know some people if they accidentally put the Quran on the floor or if they accidently drop the Quran.. they give money to charity so as to make up for the sin..
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 07:43 PM
Cant be to do with such a weighty book as the quran. There is adaab when handling the quran and dos and donts. So ur argument of urf is not valid here. The quran is the holy book of Allah and there are prescribed methods to adhere by when handling and reciting the quran to respect the sanctity and saacredness of the holy book.
so please provide an ayah or a hadith which states that it is forbidden to put it on the floor which is clean and free of filth etc... or that it is forbidden to turn ur back to it or it is forbidden to sit above it...
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 07:43 PM
yeh good points there ... u know some people if they accidentally put the Quran on the floor or if they accidently drop the Quran.. they give money to charity so as to make up for the sin..
Yeh..........we used to do that when we were kids and we dropped the quran.
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 07:44 PM
Well Yusra sis...
I dont what the exact ruling on this is.......I dont know of the examples of how the Sahaabah (rdn) handled the Qur'aan....I mean, the Qur'aan in those days was written on peices of parchment and rock...how would the sahaabah store this ??? Would they have worried about all these peices being in high places, and always being in their laps??
but my personal experience and view has been that there is nothing wrong with having the Qu'aan on the floor, if you are sitting on the floor or if you are at the mosque etc.... I doubt there is any authenticity in the fact that you shouldnt walk in front of someone reading qur'aan or turn your back to the qur'aan.....definately looks like culture here....obviously certain things like having wudu, and issues regarding menstrating women, are quite clear....I dont think the Qur'aan has to necessarily be in a high place either........
Intentionally disrespecting the qur'aan, you know, like not caring how you handle it, obviously we shouldn't handle it like we would a normal book....being careless with it and dropping it, putting it in a place where it may get dirty etc etc is no doubt disliked, and these are simple things we can avoid...... but that bro who used it as a step up.....sheesh......
The Qur'aan is a book of recitation, culture puts too much emphasis on the book, the ink and paper.....and the same cultural people may not even read the actual words of Allah (swt) properly ???
Is it not more disrespectful to read the qur'aan heedlessly, with no tajweed, with no contemplation, and maybe reading it fast..then it is to put it on the floor when you are sitting down at home or in the mosque????? :rolleyes: We should respect the Qur'aan by memorising it, reciting it properly and teaching others FIRST........
good post...
however there were complete mushafs at the time of the prophet (saw)...
so please provide an ayah or a hadith which states that it is forbidden to put it on the floor which is clean and free of filth etc... or that it is forbidden to turn ur back to it or it is forbidden to sit above it...
sheesh irhaab would u really put the quran on the floor???:o
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 07:54 PM
good post...
however there were complete mushafs at the time of the prophet (saw)...
The quraan was'nt put down in mushaf till the death of the prophet in the time of abu bakr R.A
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 07:54 PM
sheesh irhaab would u really put the quran on the floor???:o
depends what floor it is and where i am...
if i am in the masjid and im trying to recite the quran and its better for me to put it on the floor then i will.. if i am at home then i would not.... when i was in pakistan and in the maddrassah used to have this like chadar and used to put that on the floor and then put that quran on top of it ... was quite clean and respectful...
depends what floor it is and where i am...
if i am in the masjid and im trying to recite the quran and its better for me to put it on the floor then i will.. if i am at home then i would not.... when i was in pakistan and in the maddrassah used to have this like chadar and used to put that on the floor and then put that quran on top of it ... was quite clean and respectful...
my minds still not at rest...i just need the confirmation or what not from sheikh...n ill let u know..:up:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 07:59 PM
Hey Irhaab wheres ur evidence for the their being complete mushafs in the time of the prophet?
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:02 PM
Hey Irhaab wheres ur evidence for the their being complete mushafs in the time of the prophet?
read uloom al quran by sheikh taqiudeen uthmani, he gives a list of some of the complete mushafs at the time of the death of the prophet (saw) including the mushaf of ali (Ra) oh and the sources for them are included aswell...
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:04 PM
good post...
however there were complete mushafs at the time of the prophet (saw)...
^ ^ this is what u quoted in ur previous post...........no wur saying read such and such abt the complete quran at the death of the prophet.
The complete quran was'nt compiled untill after the death of the prophet.
read uloom al quran by sheikh taqiudeen uthmani, he gives a list of some of the complete mushafs at the time of the death of the prophet (saw) including the mushaf of ali (Ra) oh and the sources for them are included aswell...
hey alirhaab have u bloked me or what??????:rubeyes:
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 08:08 PM
my minds still not at rest...i just need the confirmation or what not from sheikh...n ill let u know..:up:
I can understand your apprehension on the issue.. When you are brought up in an environment where it is simply absurd to be sitting on the sofa while someone is reading Quran on the floor.. then u see people placing the Quran on the floor and they have no problem with it whatsoever.. it can be hard to get to grips with.. I see people doing it and im like.. erm.. ?? but you see I have no evidence to tell them that it is wrong.. so this is where it gets kind of complicated..
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:08 PM
so please provide an ayah or a hadith which states that it is forbidden to put it on the floor which is clean and free of filth etc... or that it is forbidden to turn ur back to it or it is forbidden to sit above it...
For you Irhaab-
That (this) is indeed a noble Qur'an
In a Book kept hidden
Which none toucheth save the purified,
A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
Surat Al-Waq`ia
The classical scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l Jama`at (the four schools) are unanimous in their interpretation of the above verses that a person has to be spiritually and physically clean (a Muslim in a state of ritual puity, i.e. in wudu) in order to handle the Arabic book of the Quran (mushaf).
What follows is the thoughts of Imam Muhammad ibn Ahmad Qurtubi who was a great Qur'an Scholar and renowned exegisate of the Qur'an.
Etiquettes of Reading and Handling the Qur'an al-Kareem
It is unlawful (haram) for someone not in the state of wudu to carry a Qur'an, even by a trap or in a box , or touch it, whether its writing, the spaces between its lines, its margins, binding, the carrying strap attached to it, or the bag or box it is in.
The opinion expressed in Fiqh al-Sunnah that it is permissible to touch the Qur'an without ritual purity is a deviant view contrary to all four schools of jurisprudence (fiqh) that is Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali and is impermissible to teach (except to teach that it is deviant).
It is permissible to carry books of Sacred Law (Shari'ah), hadith, or Qur'anic tafsir, provided that most of their text is not Qur'an.
One should not use saliva on the fingers to turn the pages of the Qur'an.
When one fears that a Qur'an may burn, get soaked, that a non-Muslim may touch it, or that it may come into contact with some filth, then one must pick it up if there is no safe place for it, even if one is not in the state of wudu or is in need of the obligatory bath, though performing the dry ablution (tayummum) is required if possible.
It is forbioden to use the Qur'an or any book of Islamic knowledge as a pillow.
Imam Muhammad ibn Ahmad Qurtubi says in "al-Jami' li ahkam al-Qur'an":
It is the inviolability of the Qur'an:
not to touch the Qur'an except in the state of ritual purity in wudu, and to recite it when in a state of ritual purity;
to brush one's teeth with a toothstick (siwak), remove food particles from between the them, and to freshen one's mouth before reciting, since it is the way through which the Qur'an passes;
to sit up straight if not in prayer, and not lean back;
to dress for reciting as if intending to visit a prince, for the reciter is engaged in an intimate discourse;
to face the direction of prayer (qiblah) to recite;
to rinse the mouth out with water if one coughs up mucus or phlegm;
to stop reciting when one yawns, for when reciting , one is addressing one's Lord in intimate conversation, while yawning is from the Devil;
when begining to recite, to take refuge from in Allah from the accursed Devil and say the Basmala, whether one has begun at the first surah or some other part one has reached;
once one has begun, not to interuppt one's recital from moment to moment with human words, unless absolutely necessary;
to be alone when reciting it, so that no one interrupts one, forcing one to mix the words of the Qur'an with replying, for this nullifies the effectivness of having taken refuge in Allah from the Devil at the beginning;
to recite it leisurely and without haste, distinctly pronouncing each letter;
to use one's mind and understanding in order to comprehend what is being said to one;
to pause at verses that promise Allah's favour, to long for Allah Most High and ask of His bounty; and at verses that warn of His punishment to ask Him to save one from it;
to pause at the accounts of bygone peoples and individuals to heed and benefit from their example;
to find out the meanings of the Qur'an's unusual lexical usages;
to give each letter its due so as to clearly and fully pronounce every word, for each letter counts as ten good deeds;
whenever one finishes reciting, to attest to the veracity of ones's Lord, and that His messenger (Allah bless him and grant him peace) has delivered his message, and to testify to this, saying: "Our Lord, You have spoken the truth, Your messengers have delivered their tidings, and bear witness to this. O Allah, make us of those who bear witness to the truth and who act with justice": after which one supplicates Allah with prayers.
not to select certain verses from each surah to recite, but rather the recite the whole surah;
if one puts down the Qur'an, not to leave it open;
not to place other books upon the Qur'an, which should always be higher than all other books, whether they are books of Sacred Knowledge or something else;
to place the Qur'an on one's lap when reading; or on something in front of one, not on the floor;
not to wipe it from a slate with spittle, but rather wash it off with water; and if one washes it off with water, to avoid putting the water where there are unclean substances (najasa) or where people walk. Such water has its own inviolability, and there were those of the early Muslims before us who used water that washed away Qur'an to effect cures.
not to use sheets upon which it has been written as bookcovers, which is extremely rude, but rather to erase the Qur'an from them with water;
not to let a day go by without looking at least once at the pages of the Qur'an;
to give one's eyes their share of looking at it, for the eyes lead to the soul (nafs), whereas there is a veil between the breast and the soul, and the Qur'an is in the breast.
not to trivially quote the Qur'an at the occurrence of everyday events, as by saying, for example, when someone comes,
"Eat and drink heartily for what you have done aforetimes, in days gone by" [Qur'an 69:24] when food is brought out, and so forth;
not to recite it to songs tunes like those of the corrupt, or with the tremulous tones of Christians or the plaintiveness of monkery, all of which is misguidance;
when writing the Qur'an to do so in a clear, elegant hand;
not to recite it out aloud over another's reciting of it, so as to spoil it for him or make him resent what he hears, making it as if it were some kind of competition;
not to recite it in marketplaces, places of clamour and frivolity, or where fools gather;
not to use the Qur'an as pillow, or lean upon it;
not to toss it when one wants to hand it to another;
not to miniaturize the Qur'an, mix into it what is not of it, or mingle this worldly adornment with it by embellishing or writing it with gold;
not to write it on the ground or on walls, as is done in some new mosques;
not to write an amulet with it and enter the lavatory, unless it is encased in leather, silver, or other, for then it is as if kept in the heart;
if one writes it and then drinks it (for cure or other purpose), one should say the Basmala at every breath and make a noble and worthy intention, for Allah only gives to one according to one's intention;
and if one finishes reciting the entire Qur'an, to begin it anew, that it may not resemble something that has been abandoned. http://www.sunnah.org/sources/ulumquran/conditions_of_handling_quran.htm
I can understand your apprehension on the issue.. When you are bought up in an environment where it is simply absurd to be sitting on the sofa while someone is reading Quran on the floor.. then u see people placing the Quran on the floor and they have no problem with it whatsoever.. it can be hard to get to grips with.. I see people doing it and im like.. erm.. ?? but you see I have no evidence to tell them that it is wrong.. so this is where it gets kind of complicated..
hmmm..ok
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:11 PM
^ ^ this is what u quoted in ur previous post...........no wur saying read such and such abt the complete quran at the death of the prophet.
The complete quran was'nt compiled untill after the death of the prophet.
:scratch: i just gave u my evidence for saying their were comple mushafs... its written in uloom al quraan that there were complete mushafs at the time of the prophet (saw) and he gives the references as proof...
in abu Bakr (Ra) one standard mushaf was compiled and part of the procedure was to check with those that had full complete mushafs...
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:11 PM
I can understand your apprehension on the issue.. When you are brought up in an environment where it is simply absurd to be sitting on the sofa while someone is reading Quran on the floor.. then u see people placing the Quran on the floor and they have no problem with it whatsoever.. it can be hard to get to grips with.. I see people doing it and im like.. erm.. ?? but you see I have no evidence to tell them that it is wrong.. so this is where it gets kind of complicated..
Why you dodging the issue yusra?
U sticking up for your brother irhaab by going off on a tangent??
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:14 PM
For you Irhaab-
That (this) is indeed a noble Qur'an
In a Book kept hidden
Which none toucheth save the purified,
A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
Surat Al-Waq`ia
The classical scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l Jama`at (the four schools) are unanimous in their interpretation of the above verses that a person has to be spiritually and physically clean (a Muslim in a state of ritual puity, i.e. in wudu) in order to handle the Arabic book of the Quran (mushaf).
What follows is the thoughts of Imam Muhammad ibn Ahmad Qurtubi who was a great Qur'an Scholar and renowned exegisate of the Qur'an.
Etiquettes of Reading and Handling the Qur'an al-Kareem
It is unlawful (haram) for someone not in the state of wudu to carry a Qur'an, even by a trap or in a box , or touch it, whether its writing, the spaces between its lines, its margins, binding, the carrying strap attached to it, or the bag or box it is in.
The opinion expressed in Fiqh al-Sunnah that it is permissible to touch the Qur'an without ritual purity is a deviant view contrary to all four schools of jurisprudence (fiqh) that is Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i and Hanbali and is impermissible to teach (except to teach that it is deviant).
It is permissible to carry books of Sacred Law (Shari'ah), hadith, or Qur'anic tafsir, provided that most of their text is not Qur'an.
One should not use saliva on the fingers to turn the pages of the Qur'an.
When one fears that a Qur'an may burn, get soaked, that a non-Muslim may touch it, or that it may come into contact with some filth, then one must pick it up if there is no safe place for it, even if one is not in the state of wudu or is in need of the obligatory bath, though performing the dry ablution (tayummum) is required if possible.
It is forbioden to use the Qur'an or any book of Islamic knowledge as a pillow.
Imam Muhammad ibn Ahmad Qurtubi says in "al-Jami' li ahkam al-Qur'an":
It is the inviolability of the Qur'an:
not to touch the Qur'an except in the state of ritual purity in wudu, and to recite it when in a state of ritual purity;
to brush one's teeth with a toothstick (siwak), remove food particles from between the them, and to freshen one's mouth before reciting, since it is the way through which the Qur'an passes;
to sit up straight if not in prayer, and not lean back;
to dress for reciting as if intending to visit a prince, for the reciter is engaged in an intimate discourse;
to face the direction of prayer (qiblah) to recite;
to rinse the mouth out with water if one coughs up mucus or phlegm;
to stop reciting when one yawns, for when reciting , one is addressing one's Lord in intimate conversation, while yawning is from the Devil;
when begining to recite, to take refuge from in Allah from the accursed Devil and say the Basmala, whether one has begun at the first surah or some other part one has reached;
once one has begun, not to interuppt one's recital from moment to moment with human words, unless absolutely necessary;
to be alone when reciting it, so that no one interrupts one, forcing one to mix the words of the Qur'an with replying, for this nullifies the effectivness of having taken refuge in Allah from the Devil at the beginning;
to recite it leisurely and without haste, distinctly pronouncing each letter;
to use one's mind and understanding in order to comprehend what is being said to one;
to pause at verses that promise Allah's favour, to long for Allah Most High and ask of His bounty; and at verses that warn of His punishment to ask Him to save one from it;
to pause at the accounts of bygone peoples and individuals to heed and benefit from their example;
to find out the meanings of the Qur'an's unusual lexical usages;
to give each letter its due so as to clearly and fully pronounce every word, for each letter counts as ten good deeds;
whenever one finishes reciting, to attest to the veracity of ones's Lord, and that His messenger (Allah bless him and grant him peace) has delivered his message, and to testify to this, saying: "Our Lord, You have spoken the truth, Your messengers have delivered their tidings, and bear witness to this. O Allah, make us of those who bear witness to the truth and who act with justice": after which one supplicates Allah with prayers.
not to select certain verses from each surah to recite, but rather the recite the whole surah;
if one puts down the Qur'an, not to leave it open;
not to place other books upon the Qur'an, which should always be higher than all other books, whether they are books of Sacred Knowledge or something else;
to place the Qur'an on one's lap when reading; or on something in front of one, not on the floor;
not to wipe it from a slate with spittle, but rather wash it off with water; and if one washes it off with water, to avoid putting the water where there are unclean substances (najasa) or where people walk. Such water has its own inviolability, and there were those of the early Muslims before us who used water that washed away Qur'an to effect cures.
not to use sheets upon which it has been written as bookcovers, which is extremely rude, but rather to erase the Qur'an from them with water;
not to let a day go by without looking at least once at the pages of the Qur'an;
to give one's eyes their share of looking at it, for the eyes lead to the soul (nafs), whereas there is a veil between the breast and the soul, and the Qur'an is in the breast.
not to trivially quote the Qur'an at the occurrence of everyday events, as by saying, for example, when someone comes,
"Eat and drink heartily for what you have done aforetimes, in days gone by" [Qur'an 69:24] when food is brought out, and so forth;
not to recite it to songs tunes like those of the corrupt, or with the tremulous tones of Christians or the plaintiveness of monkery, all of which is misguidance;
when writing the Qur'an to do so in a clear, elegant hand;
not to recite it out aloud over another's reciting of it, so as to spoil it for him or make him resent what he hears, making it as if it were some kind of competition;
not to recite it in marketplaces, places of clamour and frivolity, or where fools gather;
not to use the Qur'an as pillow, or lean upon it;
not to toss it when one wants to hand it to another;
not to miniaturize the Qur'an, mix into it what is not of it, or mingle this worldly adornment with it by embellishing or writing it with gold;
not to write it on the ground or on walls, as is done in some new mosques;
not to write an amulet with it and enter the lavatory, unless it is encased in leather, silver, or other, for then it is as if kept in the heart;
if one writes it and then drinks it (for cure or other purpose), one should say the Basmala at every breath and make a noble and worthy intention, for Allah only gives to one according to one's intention;
and if one finishes reciting the entire Qur'an, to begin it anew, that it may not resemble something that has been abandoned. http://www.sunnah.org/sources/ulumquran/conditions_of_handling_quran.htm
so your saying all of these are haram?
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 08:17 PM
Why you dodging the issue yusra?
U sticking up for your brother irhaab by going off on a tangent??
you cannot be serious.. :rubeyes:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:18 PM
so your saying all of these are haram?
No im giving u evidence for the adab of handling the quran and the proper etiquette when reciting the quran.
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:22 PM
No im giving u evidence for the adab of handling the quran and the proper etiquette when reciting the quran.
ok first of all this is not quran or hadith... second this is not fatwa its what is reccomended its naseehah because clearly many of those things on the list are not fardh unless ur gonna state they are fardh and haram...
so now im asking you again where is the evidence to say it is HARAM to put it on the floor... not that you shouldnt or its advised not to but that it is haram...
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:26 PM
There is no hadith or quranic evidence for that. Where is ur evidence that it is allowed to place the quran on the floor when reading it?
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:32 PM
There is no hadith or quranic evidence for that. Where is ur evidence that it is allowed to place the quran on the floor when reading it?
what is forbidden is to disrespect the quran right...
like i said before respect and disrespect are dependant on the urf of the society that one lives in... what is respectful to some is disrespectful to others... so as long s what you are doing is not disrespectful in the culture you are doing it in and your intention is not to disrespect it then it is not haram, no prohibition has been put in place...
for many of the communites of the arabs it is not disrespectful to put the quran on the floor as long as the floor is clean.. what the difference between putting it on a cloth on the floor and putting it on a table is i fail to see?
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:36 PM
Rite.............
Each to his own then. So you do think what is right and we'll do what we think is right.
It just doesn't make sense to put something holy upon a surface that's stepped on. Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?
Rite.............
Each to his own then. So you do think what is right and we'll do what we think is right.
jazakallah for that..i thot itd never end..
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:40 PM
It just doesn't make sense to put something holy upon a surface that's stepped on. Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?
yet u do ur sujood to allah (swt) on something that has been stepped upon... that is difficult for me to grasp :confused:
yet u do ur sujood to allah (swt) on something that has been stepped upon... that is difficult for me to grasp :confused:
I didn't know my head was holy.
I didn't know my head was holy.
lmao:rofl1:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:44 PM
I didn't know my head was holy.
ROFL...............
go on sister :D
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:46 PM
jazakallah for that..i thot itd never end..
No problem.........Let irhaab carry on placing the quraan on the floor when he recites it if that makes him happy.
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:48 PM
I think irhabs run out of steam ;) ..........
just kiddin bro :p
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:50 PM
I didn't know my head was holy.
i didnt know ur sujood was unholy :rolleyes:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:51 PM
i didnt know ur sujood was unholy :rolleyes:
I didnt know the quraan was holy :rolleyes:
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 08:53 PM
I didnt know the quraan was holy :rolleyes:
didnt u :scratch:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 08:57 PM
didnt u :scratch:
Why place it on the floor when reading it then. Placing ur head on the floor when ur doing sujood and placing the quran on the floor are not in the same league. My head and anyones head compared to the quraan is not holy in connection to the quraan.
i didnt know ur sujood was unholy :rolleyes:
Sujood is not comparable to the quran being on the floor. Sujood is an act of worship. The Quran is a holy book.
We bow our heads to Allah b/c He is our Lord. We humble ourselves when we bow down and make sujood. Our heads don't need to be placed on a high surface b/c our heads aren't holy. Just as long as there's no dirt or impurities where we bow, we're okay.
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 09:08 PM
Sujood is not comparable to the quran being on the floor. Sujood is an act of worship. The Quran is a holy book.
We bow our heads to Allah b/c He is our Lord. We humble ourselves when we bow down and make sujood. Our heads don't need to be placed on a high surface b/c our heads aren't holy. Just as long as there's no dirt or impurities where we bow, we're okay.
ur head might not be holy but ur sujood is... its part of ur prayer and ur prayer is sacred.... exactly as long as theirs no impurities its ok... well same with the quran... you still havent explained the difference to me about putting a quran on a table which is like calf high and putting it on a cloth on the floor...
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:09 PM
ur head might not be holy but ur sujood is... its part of ur prayer and ur prayer is sacred.... exactly as long as theirs no impurities its ok... well same with the quran... you still havent explained the difference to me about putting a quran on a table which is like calf high and putting it on a cloth on the floor...
Where is the evidence that says ur Sujood is holy??
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 09:10 PM
Where is the evidence that says ur Sujood is holy??
is ur salah not holy ? or sacred?
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:12 PM
is ur salah not holy ? or sacred?
Stop avoiding the question, and playing all semantics. Ur head is not holy in comparison to the quran nor is ur salaat so just put a sock in it and admit ur beaten.
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 09:18 PM
Stop avoiding the question, and playing all semantics. Ur head is not holy in comparison to the quran nor is ur salaat so just put a sock in it and admit ur beaten.
this isnt a competition..
ur head might not be holy but ur sujood is... its part of ur prayer and ur prayer is sacred.... exactly as long as theirs no impurities its ok... well same with the quran... you still havent explained the difference to me about putting a quran on a table which is like calf high and putting it on a cloth on the floor...
Honestly, I don't want to bother anymore.. I'm tired of this back-n-forthness. You have your ideas and I have mine. Maybe you're right, Allahu a3lam. But I'd rather avoid something that could be wrong or unacceptable.
~ Ayah
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't want to bother anymore.. I'm tired of this back-n-forthness. You have your ideas and I have mine. Maybe you're right, Allahu a3lam. But I'd rather avoid something that could be wrong or unacceptable.
~ Ayah
Ditto.
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:21 PM
this isnt a competition..
Was i talking to you??
Just goes to prove my point i made in my earlier post.
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 09:26 PM
Stop avoiding the question, and playing all semantics. Ur head is not holy in comparison to the quran nor is ur salaat so just put a sock in it and admit ur beaten.
im not playing semantics u ask me a question i give u an answer and like previously u deny that i have done... beaten in wot... the kaabah is holy it is on the floor.. ur qiyas goes nowhere... ur salah is holy sacred to do sajood on place which is thara is part of the prerequistite for the salah... yet you have no problem putting ur head on the floor... :rolleyes:
and you still havent answered my question as to the difference between a table and a piece of cloth...
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 09:30 PM
Was i talking to you??
Just goes to prove my point i made in my earlier post.
Any reason why you should be so rude..??
maybe you're having a bad day.. .. :scratch:
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:32 PM
[quote=Al-Irhaab... ur salah is holy sacred to do sajood on place which is thara is part of the prerequistite for the salah... yet you have no problem putting ur head on the floor... :rolleyes:
quote]
But like i said my head isnt holy the quraan is. So i put my head on the ground because it comes from the earth. Where as the quraan is from Allah subhana wa ta a'la. So please excuse me if i choose not to put the holy quraan on the floor.
Like Ayah said u've got ur beliefs and others have theirs so lets just leave it at that. Khair..
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:34 PM
Any reason why you should be so rude..??
maybe you're having a bad day.. .. :scratch:
Im not gonna dignify that with a response. Allahu Alam.
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 09:35 PM
[quote=Al-Irhaab... ur salah is holy sacred to do sajood on place which is thara is part of the prerequistite for the salah... yet you have no problem putting ur head on the floor... :rolleyes:
quote]
But like i said my head isnt holy the quraan is. So i put my head on the ground because it comes from the earth. Where as the quraan is from Allah subhana wa ta a'la. So please excuse me if i choose not to put the holy quraan on the floor.
Like Ayah said u've got ur beliefs and others have theirs so lets just leave it at that. Khiar.
i have never stated that ures is not a valid opinion... read my initial post that those who say it is disrespectful are because in their specific culture it is viewed as disrespectful and those that say it is not is because in their culture it is not seen....
both are valid to say one is haram and the other is not is stupid
hmm at this thread..Im kinda in between...when I was younger and at tahfeedhul-Quran classes..we used to get teased by teachers for not respecting the Quran the same way muslims from the subcontinent do..to tell you the truth, we didnt know there was a difference. I mean most the stuff mentioned in this thread about disrespect if somebody sitting on the floor reading the Quran and you sitting higher or somebody at the masjid reading must sit at the front and you are not allowed to have your back to the Quran..thats all new to me. About placing the Quran on the floor..well personally, I reckon it depends where you are..Personally I wouldnt put it directly on the floor...perhaps on something like other books or my bag or something. Say you are at the masjid, and you are alone there...nobody walking around you..then I dont see a problem with placing the Quran on the floor and reading..but when there are people walking around you left right and centre..then only logical that u have to hold it up out of respect to it....I dont know.
ur_yusra
15-02-06, 09:37 PM
hmm at this thread..Im kinda in between...when I was younger and at tahfeedhul-Quran classes..we used to get teased by teachers for not respecting the Quran the same way muslims from the subcontinent do..to tell you the truth, we didnt know there was a difference. I mean most the stuff mentioned in this thread about disrespect if somebody sitting on the floor reading the Quran and you sitting higher or somebody at the masjid reading must sit at the front and you are not allowed to have your back to the Quran..thats all new to me. About placing the Quran on the floor..well personally, I reckon it depends where you are..Personally I wouldnt put it directly on the floor...perhaps on something like other books or my bag or something. Say you are at the masjid, and you are alone there...nobody walking around you..then I dont see a problem with placing the Quran on the floor and reading..but when there are people walking around you left right and centre..then only logical that u have to hold it up out of respect to it....I dont know.
ok jazakAllahu khere.. :)
so we're kind of split on the issue
SoulAsylum
15-02-06, 09:39 PM
[quote=SoulAsylum]
i have never stated that ures is not a valid opinion... read my initial post that those who say it is disrespectful are because in their specific culture it is viewed as disrespectful and those that say it is not is because in their culture it is not seen....
both are valid to say one is haram and the other is not is stupid
I did'nt say putting the quraan on the floor to read it is HARAAM.
Talha-1
15-02-06, 09:59 PM
All this reminds me of a quote from Malik Shabaaz: "All negroes are angry and I'm the angriest of all."
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 09:59 PM
[quote=Al-Irhaab]
I did'nt say putting the quraan on the floor to read it is HARAAM.
then what we arguing for :D :scratch:
anna it wasnt rude..i dont get personla on here n im sure irhaab didnt as wel..please dont pinpoint at me all th etime..its not very nyc.
irhab i talked to an aalim n he gave me this answer...im prepared to accept the cultural part...u made me learn something brother..jazakallah.:up:
The word and letters of the quran are sacred, they deserve upmost respect. Bearing this in mind it is only fair to comment that those who show disregard to the quran are not holding the value of it.
I feel yes it is more of a cultural issue than religious, its like you and me when we recite the quran we sway forward and backward where as in palestine if you did this the palestinians fume as this is the daily rocking they observe at the wailing wall!!!!
It is very disrepectful that those parts of the floor where people walk regardless of purity, some place the sacred book. Sahaba held high esteem for this book and for each verse they had placed in their homes with great security when zaid set forth to compile the quran upon the order of sheikhain (abubakr and umar).
Ettiquites show respect. This is an ettiquite of the quran that we dont face our back towards thed quran.
thats the ansa...hope u satisfies i am!
:rolleyes:
.: Anna :.
16-02-06, 10:00 AM
Bint if you have a problem with it take it up at the help desk insha allah.
Al-Irhaab
16-02-06, 11:02 AM
anna it wasnt rude..i dont get personla on here n im sure irhaab didnt as wel..please dont pinpoint at me all th etime..its not very nyc.
irhab i talked to an aalim n he gave me this answer...im prepared to accept the cultural part...u made me learn something brother..jazakallah.:up:
The word and letters of the quran are sacred, they deserve upmost respect. Bearing this in mind it is only fair to comment that those who show disregard to the quran are not holding the value of it.
I feel yes it is more of a cultural issue than religious, its like you and me when we recite the quran we sway forward and backward where as in palestine if you did this the palestinians fume as this is the daily rocking they observe at the wailing wall!!!!
It is very disrepectful that those parts of the floor where people walk regardless of purity, some place the sacred book. Sahaba held high esteem for this book and for each verse they had placed in their homes with great security when zaid set forth to compile the quran upon the order of sheikhain (abubakr and umar).
Ettiquites show respect. This is an ettiquite of the quran that we dont face our back towards thed quran.
thats the ansa...hope u satisfies i am!
:rolleyes:
this is what ive been saying to you it depends on the culture and the area you come from exactly like the alim pointed out... if you rock back and forth reading quran pakis dont have a problem with it... do it in the arab world and they think ur a jew... therefore in one place it would be halal and the other place haram...
exactly the same thing witht he quran... infront of the pakis id never put it on the floor because to them it would be an insult... but with the arabs i do because to them its not insulting as long as the place is clean and u putting it there for a reason.... im glad the alim agreed...
this is what ive been saying to you it depends on the culture and the area you come from exactly like the alim pointed out... if you rock back and forth reading quran pakis dont have a problem with it... do it in the arab world and they think ur a jew... therefore in one place it would be halal and the other place haram...
exactly the same thing witht he quran... infront of the pakis id never put it on the floor because to them it would be an insult... but with the arabs i do because to them its not insulting as long as the place is clean and u putting it there for a reason.... im glad the alim agreed...
yes im glad too...the conversation led to another...whooops:D
SoulAsylum
16-02-06, 01:03 PM
[quote=SoulAsylum]
then what we arguing for :D :scratch:
You tell me bro.
SoulAsylum
16-02-06, 01:04 PM
anna it wasnt rude..i dont get personla on here n im sure irhaab didnt as wel..please dont pinpoint at me all th etime..its not very nyc.
irhab i talked to an aalim n he gave me this answer...im prepared to accept the cultural part...u made me learn something brother..jazakallah.:up:
The word and letters of the quran are sacred, they deserve upmost respect. Bearing this in mind it is only fair to comment that those who show disregard to the quran are not holding the value of it.
I feel yes it is more of a cultural issue than religious, its like you and me when we recite the quran we sway forward and backward where as in palestine if you did this the palestinians fume as this is the daily rocking they observe at the wailing wall!!!!
It is very disrepectful that those parts of the floor where people walk regardless of purity, some place the sacred book. Sahaba held high esteem for this book and for each verse they had placed in their homes with great security when zaid set forth to compile the quran upon the order of sheikhain (abubakr and umar).
Ettiquites show respect. This is an ettiquite of the quran that we dont face our back towards thed quran.
thats the ansa...hope u satisfies i am!
:rolleyes:
Deleted :D
anna it wasnt rude..i dont get personla on here n im sure irhaab didnt as wel..please dont pinpoint at me all th etime..its not very nyc.
irhab i talked to an aalim n he gave me this answer...im prepared to accept the cultural part...u made me learn something brother..jazakallah.:up:
The word and letters of the quran are sacred, they deserve upmost respect. Bearing this in mind it is only fair to comment that those who show disregard to the quran are not holding the value of it.
I feel yes it is more of a cultural issue than religious, its like you and me when we recite the quran we sway forward and backward where as in palestine if you did this the palestinians fume as this is the daily rocking they observe at the wailing wall!!!!
It is very disrepectful that those parts of the floor where people walk regardless of purity, some place the sacred book. Sahaba held high esteem for this book and for each verse they had placed in their homes with great security when zaid set forth to compile the quran upon the order of sheikhain (abubakr and umar).
Ettiquites show respect. This is an ettiquite of the quran that we dont face our back towards thed quran.
thats the ansa...hope u satisfies i am!
:rolleyes:
Wheres the evidence though ??????? Hadith ??? Hadith ilusrtating the behaviour of the Sahaabah (rdn)...?????
I find it very difficult to accept that you are not allowed to turn your back to the Qur'aan....reminds me of in al haram shareef, people walk backwards out of the mosque so their backs are not turned to the kabah :scratch: ....thats bid'ah and quite frankly, illogical....
the words of recitation of the qur'aan are sacred...this is where we should focus our attention.......
And whats this about thinking that you have to give charity when you drop it :scratch: ......so when someone lies do they have to give charity ?? when someone doesnt read their salat properly do they have to give charity ?????? why are these sins regarded minor and dropping the mushaf ACCIDENTLY NOT INTENTIONALLY major????? Again, this is innovation, and we have to very careful when it comes to culture, because culture is usually the source of such innovation in to Islam....
Al-Irhaab
16-02-06, 01:27 PM
Wheres the evidence though ??????? Hadith ??? Hadith ilusrtating the behaviour of the Sahaabah (rdn)...?????
I find it very difficult to accept that you are not allowed to turn your back to the Qur'aan....reminds me of in al haram shareef, people walk backwards out of the mosque so their backs are not turned to the kabah :scratch: ....thats bid'ah and quite frankly, illogical....
the words of recitation of the qur'aan are sacred...this is where we should focus our attention.......
And whats this about thinking that you have to give charity when you drop it :scratch: ......so when someone lies do they have to give charity ?? when someone doesnt read their salat properly do they have to give charity ?????? why are these sins regarded minor and dropping the mushaf ACCIDENTLY NOT INTENTIONALLY major????? Again, this is innovation, and we have to very careful when it comes to culture, because culture is usually the source of such innovation in to Islam....
urf in islam ie the culture of the area ur living in is not biddah... respect is determined by the urf ur living in, in those things not prescribed by the quran and sunnah...
for example in certain cultures its disrespectful to look into ur fathers eyes when talking to him... now for these cultures it would be forbidden to do so as that will be disrespecting your father... its not biddah its looking at the society before making the hukm....
if in a culture it is disrespectful if u turn ur back to a sacred thing then u shld not do it in that culture as this would be seen as disrespecting the quran...
Im not gonna dignify that with a response. Allahu Alam.
Was i talking to you??
Just goes to prove my point i made in my earlier post.
I was actually taking your posts seriously soul asylum until you came out with the above rubbish...
there is no need to speak to people in such a rude, frankly very childish manner.....don't raise yourself above people, thinking that what you say is correct and everyone else is wrong,everyone here is allowed to express their opinion, so dont belittle sis yusra or anything she said........
you did no 'prove' anything against sister Yusra, all you proved is your own inability to have a discussion and your childish behaviour......
astagfirullah....
Al-Irhaab
16-02-06, 01:29 PM
:1popcorn:
urf in islam ie the culture of the area ur living in is not biddah... respect is determined by the urf ur living in, in those things not prescribed by the quran and sunnah...
for example in certain cultures its disrespectful to look into ur fathers eyes when talking to him... now for these cultures it would be forbidden to do so as that will be disrespecting your father... its not biddah its looking at the society before making the hukm....
if in a culture it is disrespectful if u turn ur back to a sacred thing then u shld not do it in that culture as this would be seen as disrespecting the quran...
No, but what I'm saying is that Islam is not governed by culture, culture should be governed by Islam.....so where is the hadith regarding how the sahaabah treated the mushaf ???? and universally we should all, every culture, should treat the mushaf in this way??????
when we differentiate between cultures, we cause differences and disunity....one culture thinks its right, the other is wrong......it cannot be denied that many bid'ah in to the deen arised from culture....
ur_yusra
16-02-06, 01:38 PM
urf in islam ie the culture of the area ur living in is not biddah... respect is determined by the urf ur living in, in those things not prescribed by the quran and sunnah...
for example in certain cultures its disrespectful to look into ur fathers eyes when talking to him... now for these cultures it would be forbidden to do so as that will be disrespecting your father... its not biddah its looking at the society before making the hukm....
if in a culture it is disrespectful if u turn ur back to a sacred thing then u shld not do it in that culture as this would be seen as disrespecting the quran...
hmmm i dunno... not turning your back to the Qur'an because your father says its wrong because in his CULTURE its wrong.. even though he has no evidence that is islamically based.. then I will not do it ONLY for his peace of mind.. things like this need to be backed up with evidence..
yes if looking into the eyes of your father is deemed disrespectful in that culture then yes it would be wrong for a son to do this islamically... because Islam tells us to respect our parents in a way that pleases them and that does not go against the hukm of Allah (swt).. so urf applies in this case..
BUT... what does the Qur'an say.. How would the Qur'an like to be treated...?? forget what other people think.. Are we violating the rights of the Qur'an by placing it on the floor or turning our backs to it?? are we definately doing something haram..?? that was the initial question.. regardless of culture etc..
Al-Irhaab
16-02-06, 01:39 PM
No, but what I'm saying is that Islam is not governed by culture, culture should be governed by Islam.....so where is the hadith regarding how the sahaabah treated the mushaf ???? and universally we should all, every culture, should treat the mushaf in this way??????
when we differentiate between cultures, we cause differences and disunity....one culture thinks its right, the other is wrong......it cannot be denied that many bid'ah in to the deen arised from culture....
the ulema of the past such as imam abu hanifa (ra) have already ascertained via the actions of the prophet (saw) that in the absence of any quran or sunnah then the urf ie the customs of the society can be taken into consideration to determine such things... there is no prohibition in the quran or sunnah to put the quran on the floor.. however there is no hadith to specify it is allowed, nor is there hadith to specify it can be thrown to pass it to another muslim nor is there hadith to deny this... the only evidence we have is that it must be treated with respect... respect is an issue which is determined in this case by the absense of quran or sunnah from the urf of the society we live in. So the ulema in south asia based upon the urf of the society there state that one should not put the quran on the floor as it is disrespectful... in other cultures the ulema have stated it is permissible...
hope that helps...
SoulAsylum
16-02-06, 02:11 PM
Why is this discussion still going? :1popcorn: :1popcorn:
Why is this discussion still going? :1popcorn: :1popcorn:
Why are you still posting on the discussion then...:rolleyes:
I think thats probably your most credible post on this thread actually :rolleyes:.......
SoulAsylum
16-02-06, 02:20 PM
Why are you still posting on the discussion then...:rolleyes:
I think thats probably your most credible post on this thread actually :rolleyes:.......
Because i want to...:rolleyes:
Thank you thank you.
Now carry on........:rolleyes:
Le Croyant
16-02-06, 02:21 PM
Anoth example that comes to mind.. it's more related to respectto parents/elders rather than the Quran.
In the Indian subcontinent... one would not smoke in fromt of thier parents, uncle, aunts, older siblings. It considered very disrespectful inmany parts of the region.
But in the Arab & western world thats ok.... smoking in front of parents in not considered disrespectful.
.: Anna :.
16-02-06, 02:31 PM
NAWAR AND SOUL ASYLUM.... quit bickering
SoulAsylum
16-02-06, 02:40 PM
NAWAR AND SOUL ASYLUM.... quit bickering
I was responding to nawars ? and told him he can carry on.
I've made my views clear and not gonna say anymore.
ur_yusra
16-02-06, 04:05 PM
hey jazakAllahu khere all for your input...
It seems that we can conclude the following:
- There is not really a set of rules laid down by the Qur'an and sunnah directly on how we should treat the Qur'an as a book.
- As a consequence we CAN use culture in order to decide HOW the Qur'an should be respected.
- We cannot accuse others of committing haram if they do not comply with OUR cultural views on the issue of disrespect.
- At the same time we condemn obvious signs of disrespect such as placing the Qur'an in filthy places etc.
- And finally we all agree to the following hadith where Rasullallah (sallallahu alayhi wasalam) says:
" Every person will be judged according to his intention.” (Agreed upon).
hey jazakAllahu khere all for your input...
It seems that we can conclude the following:
- There is not really a set of rules laid down by the Qur'an and sunnah directly on how we should treat the Qur'an as a book.
- As a consequence we CAN use culture in order to decide HOW the Qur'an should be respected.
- We cannot accuse others of committing haram if they do not comply with OUR cultural views on the issue of disrespect.
- At the same time we condemn obvious signs of disrespect such as placing the Qur'an in filthy places etc.
- And finally we all agree to the following hadith where Rasullallah (sallallahu alayhi wasalam) says:
" Every person will be judged according to his intention.” (Agreed upon).
.....an excellent conclusion sis....this thread was very informative MashAllah.......:D
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