View Full Version : Are Shia Muslims ?
Jhungvi
12-02-06, 07:39 AM
If inter-sectarian debates are allowed May i humbly ask about shias if they are muslim ?
Farahnaz
12-02-06, 08:08 AM
U would really want 2 know if Shias r Muslims..?? Then I'll present u a letter by Shaikh al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot regarding the Twelver Imami Shi'ites.
Head Office of al-Azhar University: IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCIFULText of the Verdict (Fatwa) Issued by His ExcellencyShaikh al-Akbar Mahmood Shaltoot,Head of the al-Azhar University,on Permissibility of Following "al-Shia al-Imamiyyah"School of ThoughtHis Excellency was asked:Some believe that, for a Muslim to have religiously correct worship and dealing, it is necessary to follow one of the four known schools of thought, whereas, "al-Shia al-Imamiyyah" school of thought is not one of them nor "al-Shia al-Zaidiyyah." Do your Excellency agree with this opinion, and prohibit following "al-Shia al-Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah" school of thought, for example?His Excellency replied:1) Islam does not require a Muslim to follow a particular Madh'hab (school of thought). Rather, we say: every Muslim has the right to follow one of the schools of thought which has been correctly narrated and its verdicts have been compiled in its books. And, everyone who is following such Madhahib [schools of thought] can transfer to another school, and there shall be no crime on him for doing so.2) The Ja'fari school of thought, which is also known as "al-Shia al- Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah" (i.e., The Twelver Imami Shi'ites) is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought.Muslims must know this, and ought to refrain from unjust prejudice to any particular school of thought, since the religion of Allah and His Divine Law (Shari'ah) was never restricted to a particular school of thought. Their jurists (Mujtahidoon) are accepted by Almighty Allah, and it is permissible to the "non-Mujtahid" to follow them and to accord with their teaching whether in worship (Ibadaat) or transactions (Mu'amilaat).Signed,Mahmood Shaltoot.The above Fatwa was announced on July 6, 1959 from the Head of al-Azhar University, and was subsequently published in many publications in the middle east which include, but are not limited to:
al-Sha'ab newspaper (Egypt), issue of July 7, 1959.
al-Kifah newspaper (Lebanon), issue of July 8, 1959.
Farahnaz
12-02-06, 08:10 AM
Or u can view this...if u still don't believe me..
View the English text image (http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/azhar-e.gif); or
View the original Arabic text image (http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/azhar-a.gif)
Farahnaz
12-02-06, 08:20 AM
From now & today onwards I beg all of u in this forum that no one can criticize each other or calling bad names.
(and that includes u Al-Irhaab)
ummbilal
12-02-06, 09:47 AM
the shias who simply believe that Ali ra should have been caliph after the Prophet saws's death , they follow the laws of the other caliphs and dont commit shirk are muslims and its ok to pray behind them/ in their masjids,
however the rest are not muslims, how can someone who says Ya Ali, be a muslim??
this is shirk and invalidates their shahada.
and Allahu alam
Al-Irhaab
12-02-06, 10:18 AM
hey assalamualaikum jhungvi love the name man mashallah:D
shiah versus muslim debates are banned man...
but no most shiahs are kaafir for insulting the sahaba denying the quran, al azhar is a sell out institute... read taufa ithna ashari or radd e rawafid to learn more about shiahs :rolleyes:
PersianPaladin
12-02-06, 11:48 AM
hey assalamualaikum jhungvi love the name man mashallah:D
shiah versus muslim debates are banned man...
but no most shiahs are kaafir for insulting the sahaba denying the quran, al azhar is a sell out institute... read taufa ithna ashari or radd e rawafid to learn more about shiahs :rolleyes:
Please refrain from this.
Al-Irhaab
12-02-06, 12:58 PM
Please refrain from this.
you refrain from being raafidah and i will consider it :rolleyes:
May I suggest that these 'Sunni scholars' - have some chat on 'Shia Chat' - to learn what the 'sectarian Shias' think of these 'sectarian Sunnis'?
An olease don't bother me with the 'results' - As I have heard them before!
Al-Irhaab
12-02-06, 03:12 PM
May I suggest that these 'Sunni scholars' - have some chat on 'Shia Chat' - to learn what the 'sectarian Shias' think of these 'sectarian Sunnis'?
An olease don't bother me with the 'results' - As I have heard them before!
are you shia?
HumBombadil
12-02-06, 03:46 PM
We are no one to say shia's are not muslims.
are you shia?
Are you a 'mureed' of that sectarian Maulana Jhungvi?
Al-Irhaab
12-02-06, 10:40 PM
Are you a 'mureed' of that sectarian Maulana Jhungvi?
nope... are you shiah :rolleyes:
lonely_me
13-02-06, 12:59 AM
Ouch...
Farahnaz
13-02-06, 01:06 AM
but no most shiahs are kaafir for insulting the sahaba denying the quran, al azhar is a sell out institute... read taufa ithna ashari or radd e rawafid to learn more about shiahs :rolleyes:
You are the MOST ARROGANT MAN that I've come across!
Your a doctor, right..? Well...u know & I know that there's no cure 4 the sickness of the heart....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
muslim warrior0
13-02-06, 10:34 AM
Please refrain from this. plz refrain from cutting ur self, and slashing urself, and beatin up ur chest like some retarded shias:wacko:and also dont do this to urself>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:banghead:<<<<thats wot shias do, bang their head like retarded animals.
and then they do this:torture:<<<<they get someone to whip dem...for being naughty boys. lol
...and dont curse the companions of muhammad s.a.w.
nope... are you shiah :rolleyes:
NOPE - Are U an evil sectarian - working for Kufar? :rolleyes:
Al-Irhaab
13-02-06, 03:20 PM
NOPE - Are U an evil sectarian - working for Kufar? :rolleyes:
nope i dont work for kuffar... and raafidah are not a sect of islam theyre kaafir :rolleyes:
ur_yusra
13-02-06, 05:05 PM
nope i dont work for kuffar... and raafidah are not a sect of islam theyre kaafir :rolleyes:
Al-Irhaab.. your not very popular here are you... :rolleyes:
snake fist
13-02-06, 05:06 PM
assalam alakuim
al-Bukhari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhari) — "don't pray with them, don't marry from them and don't even say a salam to them". See: Af'al al-ibad خلق أفعال العباد p125
Ibn Hazm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm) — "Shia are not even Muslims",
Imam Shafi'i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Shafi%27i) — "closer to kufr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kufr) than belief"
MalikOne™
13-02-06, 05:10 PM
assalam alakuim
al-Bukhari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhari) — "don't pray with them, don't marry from them and don't even say a salam to them". See: Af'al al-ibad خلق أفعال العباد p125
Ibn Hazm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm) — "Shia are not even Muslims",
Imam Shafi'i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Shafi%27i) — "closer to kufr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kufr) than belief"
wa alaikum as salaam
Jazakallah khair :up:
snake fist
13-02-06, 05:13 PM
BARAkALLAHFEEKI BLUD
An article by AR Squires:
As-salamu 'alaykum,
The three things mentioned below are not characteristics of mainstream (i.e. Twelver) Shi'ism, which is what is the type prevelant in Iran and Iraq. The belief that Gibril (as) was supposed to go to 'Ali (raa) is the belief of a kooky Shi'a sect that are very much out of the mainstream of Shi'ism. It's too bad that more Sunnis aren't aware of this, since we wouldn't like it if the most outrageous and astray "Sunni" sects are mentioned whenever Sunnism is brought up.
This is not to say that Twelver Shi'ism doesn't have some abhorrent beliefs, such as considering many (if not most) of the Sahaba (raa) to be disbelievers, having Mu'tazilite 'aqidah and considering it kufr to reject the Twelve Imams. However, the majority of Sunni scholars consider the Twelver Shi'a to be a sect that is WITHIN, not outside of, the fold of Islam.
Sunnis Killing Shia Muslims
http://www.seekersdigest.org/sunnis-killing-shia-muslims.html
Also, the following article on my blog had considerable amout of discussion on this top last year:
The Shi'a and the Qur'an: Between Myth and Reality
http://www.mereislam.info/2005/10/shia-and-quran-between-myth-and.html
In this day and age I think the wise thing to do is the recognize our differences, agree to disagree on some points, but still try to get along. Needless to say, I don't think setting car bombs off at weddings or machine gunning people after Friday prayer, and other such things that have happened, is the Sunnah of handling our differences...
wslm
Al-Irhaab
13-02-06, 05:46 PM
dont tell me nuh min keller says that cursing the sahaba and accusing them of apostacy does not make you kaafir... i mean has he not read as shifa by qadi iyad... :rolleyes: im not saying he does say it....
the issue about gibrael (As) is taken by the allawi sect who are in control of syria at the moment...
read taufa ithna ashari by Shah walliullah to see what muslims say about raafidah shiah... as for car bombing shiah temples and drive bys....
im not saying its a good thing cus that would be illegal .... but I understand :D
Abu.Bakr
14-02-06, 07:36 AM
The twelvers are kuffaar.
Have a good day.
The twelvers are kuffaar.
Have a good day.
Gee - only 'twelve' - Why not fouteen?
Both Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik called Imam Jaafar - My Imam.
Some people do have their brains put in wrong-places!
Al-Irhaab
14-02-06, 03:57 PM
Gee - only 'twelve' - Why not fouteen?
Both Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik called Imam Jaafar - My Imam.
Some people do have their brains put in wrong-places!
and imam jaafar was not a raafidha nor was he shia :rolleyes: alhamdulillah he was muslim some people seem to have put their beliefs in the wrong places
Yes this is what bothers me is when certain shia's try their best to make certain Muslim scholars of the past shia's too. For example last week some idiot at uni told me that Imam Ali (ra) was a shia and asked me 'who is your ayatollah?' I was going to slap him :rolleyes:
I wish I did.
Free-Bird
14-02-06, 10:17 PM
If inter-sectarian debates are allowed May i humbly ask about shias if they are muslim ?I have met many shiahs along the years they seem as muslim as we are. We have the good and the bad just like everybody else. They believe in Allah, Muhammad and the Qur'an. I don't know if there are more needed or they need to reduce some them so everybody are exactly identical to the next door neighbour. We human are so diverse with different way of thinking and liking.
I am sure of thing about them, they are believers.
tauheedul
14-02-06, 10:57 PM
Salaam, i am a sunni muslim. I have enquired with many people if Shiahs can be classed as muslims. I have found that Generally Shiahs are as they believ in Muhammad S.A.W to be the last prophet etc.
The prblem is there is a group of hardcore shiahs who are into that Ya ali stuff which invalidates the shahadah - An whipping etc is Biddat:torture:
Those shiahs who do not do this stuff are muslims the only difference is the believe in Ali R.A to have been Caliph. Thats it. Apparently in Egypt it is forbidden for shiahs to whip theselves - So i guess that whipping thing isnt that widespread.
Allah Knows Best
Would anyone trust a Shia who's given the green light to lie in almost every circumstance by their clerics?
Salaam, i am a sunni muslim. I have enquired with many people if Shiahs can be classed as muslims. I have found that Generally Shiahs are as they believ in Muhammad S.A.W to be the last prophet etc.
The prblem is there is a group of hardcore shiahs who are into that Ya ali stuff which invalidates the shahadah - An whipping etc is Biddat:torture:
Those shiahs who do not do this stuff are muslims the only difference is the believe in Ali R.A to have been Caliph. Thats it. Apparently in Egypt it is forbidden for shiahs to whip theselves - So i guess that whipping thing isnt that widespread.
Allah Knows Best
salam,
calling 'ali and stuff is not the issue. and it does not invalidate the shahada and take one into kufr, provided they don't REPLACE ya allah with ya 'ali,
eg. ya 'ali forgive me and have mercy and guide me and keep my family safe!
ofcourse this is incorrect!
as far as i know, the shi'a do worship allah and ask him in du'as, and call 'ali and others out of love for them.
allahu a'lam
wslm
Would anyone trust a Shia who's given the green light to lie in almost every circumstance by their clerics?
But it was Shia Iran which gave refuge to your son OBL.
Farahnaz
15-02-06, 02:31 AM
and imam jaafar was not a raafidha nor was he shia :rolleyes: alhamdulillah he was muslim some people seem to have put their beliefs in the wrong places
So much stupidity! :wacko:
Why Shiaism is named Jaafari religion? ;)
Abu.Bakr
15-02-06, 11:09 AM
Gee - only 'twelve' - Why not fouteen?
Both Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik called Imam Jaafar - My Imam.
Some people do have their brains put in wrong-places!
Exactly.
Imam Jafar RA was the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa RA, and Imam Abu Hanifa RA was the teacher of Imam Malik RA, and Imam Malik RA was the teacher of Imam Shafi'i RA, and Imam Shafi'i RA was the teacher of Imam Ahmed RA and so on.
In simpler terms - Imam Jafar RA was our teacher too. He was apart of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa3ah and he taught us according to the Quran and Sunnah. I don't remember him saying 'Call upon me and I will answer you', I am pretty sure Allah ta3ala said that you kuffaar!
*IslamicGirl*
15-02-06, 11:22 AM
:start:
:wswrwb:
assalam alakuim
al-Bukhari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhari) — "don't pray with them, don't marry from them and don't even say a salam to them". See: Af'al al-ibad خلق أفعال العباد p125
Ibn Hazm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm) — "Shia are not even Muslims",
Imam Shafi'i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam_Shafi%27i) — "closer to kufr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kufr) than belief"
:eek3: Are you sure they're not taken out of context?
They prob are referring to kaafirs not shias. And does sect really matter? unless they insult Islam it doesn't- many jahil people need a few lessons in aadhab and need to do some reserach- pulling it out of some bookmarked website doesn't make it 'right'
Who the heck trusts 'wikepedia'?!?!
There are diff catergories of shia, just the same for every other sect.
:salams
I am sure I have seen other threads by similar names, i think we should start a new thread, "How to make a Shia Muslim"
*IslamicGirl*
15-02-06, 11:29 AM
:start:
:salams
I am sure I have seen other threads by similar names, i think we should start a new thread, "How to make a Shia Muslim"
How about
'HOW TO MAKE ONE MUSLIM'
Why just pick on one sect? :eek3:
:salams
:start:
:salams
How about
'HOW TO MAKE ONE MUSLIM'
Why just pick on one sect? :eek3:
:salams
True. That's why I started a thread on 'what is Islam'. To stop the division and hate. I think some people thought I just wasn't all that clued up :rolleyes:
Al-Irhaab
15-02-06, 11:51 AM
So much stupidity! :wacko:
Why Shiaism is named Jaafari religion? ;)
same reason why the claim themselves to be shiahs of ali (ra)...
cus theyre liars... theyre shiah of ibn saba and al majusi
Farahnaz
16-02-06, 07:39 AM
Look Al-Irhaab, there's no compulsion in the religion of Islam. It’s up to all of u 2 choose which path would take u 2 'saratalmostaqeem'...u choose dude.
Don’t worry bout Shias, we do wat Prophet (pbuh) had told us.....we're Sayyids/Sayyidahs (the descendents of Ali & Fatima). Ali (as) & Fatima (sa) lived with the Prophet (pbuh) day & night. We took religion from our forefathers just like they took it from their forefather Ibrahim (Abraham).
We have Islam alive in us since we took it from roots & we are thankful to Almighty Allah for it.
If someone tells you "I am Sunni", it means he follow the Quran & Sunnah. In other words they have no guidance after the Prophet (pbuh) & they just do whatever they think is Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) & interpret the Quran the way they want from their Sunni scholars.
On the other hand if you say someone is Shia, they follow Allah (swt) which is His words in the Quran & take it’s interpretation from the person Allah had told them to take from i.e. "Rasikhuna fil Ilm" (who keep the knowledge of the book). Example the Prophet himself & then Prophet’s Ahl al Bayt - which is Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Husain & 9 other Imams in this family. These are the righteous guides for mankind till the day of judgement.
Allah says in Quran [An-Nisa' 4:59]
"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end."
After Allah (swt) & Prophet (pbuh), Imams are the authority among us. So Shia obey them as they obey Allah (swt) & Prophet (pbuh).
Like I sed there is no compulsion in Islam....so there's no need 4 this hatred & grudge.
Wat a pity...so u really miss ur mom ya :inlove: ..must b mom's fave son. I know wat its like 2 miss some1 u luv. I miss my mom & dad too....just visited them 3 days ago :D
Al-Irhaab
16-02-06, 11:11 AM
Look Al-Irhaab, there's no compulsion in the religion of Islam. It’s up to all of u 2 choose which path would take u 2 'saratalmostaqeem'...u choose dude.
Don’t worry bout Shias, we do wat Prophet (pbuh) had told us.....we're Sayyids/Sayyidahs (the descendents of Ali & Fatima). Ali (as) & Fatima (sa) lived with the Prophet (pbuh) day & night. We took religion from our forefathers just like they took it from their forefather Ibrahim (Abraham).
We have Islam alive in us since we took it from roots & we are thankful to Almighty Allah for it.
If someone tells you "I am Sunni", it means he follow the Quran & Sunnah. In other words they have no guidance after the Prophet (pbuh) & they just do whatever they think is Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) & interpret the Quran the way they want from their Sunni scholars.
On the other hand if you say someone is Shia, they follow Allah (swt) which is His words in the Quran & take it’s interpretation from the person Allah had told them to take from i.e. "Rasikhuna fil Ilm" (who keep the knowledge of the book). Example the Prophet himself & then Prophet’s Ahl al Bayt - which is Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Husain & 9 other Imams in this family. These are the righteous guides for mankind till the day of judgement.
Allah says in Quran [An-Nisa' 4:59]
"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end."
After Allah (swt) & Prophet (pbuh), Imams are the authority among us. So Shia obey them as they obey Allah (swt) & Prophet (pbuh).
Like I sed there is no compulsion in Islam....so there's no need 4 this hatred & grudge.
Wat a pity...so u really miss ur mom ya :inlove: ..must b mom's fave son. I know wat its like 2 miss some1 u luv. I miss my mom & dad too....just visited them 3 days ago :D
allah (swt) said the prophet (SaW) was the best of examples uswatan hassan, allah (Swt) said take what the prophet (Saw) took and leave what he left... we have the quran we have the sunnah and we have the example of the khulafah raashidah and the sahaba akbar including ahlul bayt... whereas you shiahs you insult the sahaba and you call ahlul bayt cowards...
for us their is only one deen of al islam, not two. Yes we are worried about the raafidah shiah because they insult the prophet (Saw) how can someone be muslim if they insult the prophet (Saw)... the raafidah shiah they betray the muslims and they kill them and they ally with the kaafir against the muslims.. they are the biggest threat to islam and muslims...
shiahs decendants of the prophet (saw) :rolleyes: you mean decendants of ibn saba and al majusi...
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