Mother Teresa, all the Christian saints

[MalcomBanned4?]

Mother Teresa, all the Christian saints and all the dead Popes are in hell and Mohamid Attia and Salah Shahada are in paradise.

[AbuMubarak]

malcom

i am going to assume that you posted this because you are still unclear as to what tawheed is, and not to try to start some arguments or express some deep seated skepticism

i will repeat it for you, but if you would start reading sections of this forum (islam, peace and calm) there are quite detailed threads which explain all of this

here goes

a man worships a rock, he is a good man, he gives charity, he doesnt backbite, all of that good stuff

that man goes to hell, because the greatest sin is to worship other than Allah (even if its your own desires/reject Allah)

a man kills 99 people, repents, that man has a good chance of entering heaven (providing he didnt worship other than Allah)

heaven and hell are not till after the day of judgement, people now are being questioned, some are being punished, some are relaxing peacefully

there will be muslims in hell, for a period of time (a long time) but because they believed in the one true god, they will be brought out

no one who worships other than Allah will ever come out of hell

and Allah knows best

[AbuMubarak]

MURDER, rape, child molesting and genocide. These are all some of the
appalling crimes which occur in our world today. Many would think
that these are the worst possible offences which could be committed.
But there is something which outweighs all of these crimes put
together: It is the crime of shirk.

Some people may question this notion. But when viewed in a proper
context, the fact that there is no crime worse than shirk, will
become evident to every sincere person.

There is no doubt that the above crimes are indeed terrible, but
their comparison with shirk shows that they do not hold much
significance in relation to this travesty. When a man murders, rapes
or steals, the injustice which is done is directed primarily at other
humans. But when a man commits shirk, the injustice is directed
towards the Creator of the heavens and the earth: Allah. When a
person is murdered, all sorts of reasons and explanations are given.
But one thing that the murderer cannot claim, is that the murdered
was someone who provided him with food, shelter, clothing and all the
other things which keep humans aloft in this life.

But when a person commits shirk, they attempt, willingly or
unwillingly, to direct an injustice towards the one who has provided
them with all these necessary things – and often a whole lot more.
This Being who provides us with all our needs and wants is of course
Allah, the Lord of this universe. So is it right for us to commit
this offence against the one who has provided us with all that we
could possibly need? This is the ultimate form of ingratitude which
humans display, and will eventually cause many people eternal pain.
The severity of this crime has been established inshaa Allah, but
until now you may have been wondering `what exactly is shirk?'

The Reality of Shirk :

Tawheed is the Oneness of Allah. Shirk is exactly its opposite.
Linguistically, shirk means a partnership or to share or associate.
However, Islamically it is to give to other than Allah, that which
belongs solely to Allah. This means that parts of Allah's creation
are given powers and attributes which belong to Allah, thus,
ultimately offering worship to other than Allah alone. These parts of
the creation therefore become partners with Allah.

The purpose of our creation is outlined in the Qur'an when Allah says
(which means):

"I did not create the Jinn1 and mankind except to worship Me" (Surah
Ad-Dhariyat 51:56)

Our very existence on this earth is to worship Allah alone. By
committing shirk, a person ends up denying this very purpose of our
creation. To Allah, this is the gravest of sins and thus
unforgivable.

Allah says:

"Surely Allah will not forgive the association of partners (shirk)
with Him, but He forgives (sins) less than that to whomever He
wishes" (Surah An-Nisa 4:48)

This means that everything can be forgiven except shirk. However we
should not misunderstand this into thinking that those who commit
shirk are totally doomed. Allah calls himself by al-Ghafoor (The Most
Forgiving), and truly he is the Most Forgiving. If a person commits
shirk and then wishes to make repentance, Allah accepts his
repentance and wipes the slate clean. But if the person does not make
repentance during his lifetime, then Allah will not forgive this
person on the Day of Judgment. Hellfire will be made eternal and
he/she will never come out. It must also be remembered that Allah
through his justice, has not discriminated in the punishment of this
crime. If a Muslim commits shirk during his lifetime, and does not
make repentance, he too will face the eternal fury of the Hellfire.
It is this thought which helps
Muslims from becoming too complacent and arrogant like some of the
previous nations.2

Some people say that eternal Hellfire is unjust. But indeed Allah is
the Most Just. While some will go to Hell forever for committing
shirk, there will be others who will go to Paradise forever for
upholding tawheed. Those who say that Allah is unjust for sending
some to Hell forever, should therefore also say that Allah is unjust
for sending others to Paradise forever! But we know that those who
claim this, would never themselves refuse an everlasting reward such
as Paradise, thus showing the weak human understanding of this
argument.

By committing shirk we should not fool ourselves into thinking that
we harm Allah in anyway. Rather we harm ourselves with the threat of
Allah's punishment. It is as if humans stick two fingers up at Allah
after He has favoured them with so much. Thus a crime is committed
against Allah, yet it does not harm him – such is the magnitude and
greatness of our Creator. In order to understand how shirk manifests
itself in our world, we need to look at how it relates to the
categories of tawheed.

Shirk in Allah's Lordship (Ruboobeeya) :

This category of shirk has two aspects:

(i) Shirk by Association – As Muslims we believe that it is Allah
alone who Controls and Sustains the universe. Those who commit shirk
by association believe that Allah is the Creator, but other parts of
the creation also play a role in the running of the world. A classic
example of this is the Christian concept of Trinity. Christians
believe that God (Allah) alone does not regulate the affairs of
mankind. They believe that the other two parts of the Trinity, Jesus
(AS) and the Holy spirit, also play a part in worldly affairs e.g.
Jesus pronounces judgment on the world and the holy spirit helps
Christians through their daily lives. Qualities such as these should
only belong to Allah. The Hindus also commit this kind of shirk, with
them having hundreds of different gods for different aspects of their
lives.

Unfortunately some Muslims have also fallen prey to this shirk. There
are many from the subcontinent who often call out for help upon
saints and holy men who have passed away. One of the main saints whom
they invoke is `Abdul-Qadir al-Jeelanee'3 whom they call `Al-Ghawth-e-
Azam' (the greatest source of help).

(ii) Shirk by Negation – Over the centuries many philosophies and
ways of life have denied the existence of God. Buddhism and Jainism
are amongst the major world religions which assert this belief.
During the 18th and 19th centuries the advancement of scientific
knowledge led many philosophers and scientists to claim that God was
a figment of man's imagination. By cancelling the role of a supreme
legislator, those who claim that God does not exist, ultimately
attempt to make themselves masters of their own destinies.

Some atheists also give Allah's attributes to His creation. By
denying Allah, they say the world is eternal with no beginning and no
end. And we know that this is only for Allah.

Shirk in Allah's Names and Attributes (Asma wa Sifaat) :

This category of shirk has two aspects:

(i) Shirk by Humanisation – The tawheed of Allah's names and
attributes demands that we believe Allah to be free from any human
likeness. Those who commit shirk by humanisation give attributes to
God which are more appropriate for human beings than an all-powerful
Creator. Christianity is again guilty of this shirk. In the Bible we
find countless examples of God being given human attributes. In the
book of Genesis, God is said to have created the world in six days
and then rested on the seventh!! In other places God is said to have
repented for his bad thoughts and felt sorry because of his actions!

This form of shirk has even taken some people beyond the limits of
sanity. In India there are many Hindus who worship the Shiva Lingam
Deity. This is an idol which is shaped and sized to represent the
male genitals. For the Hindus it represents the reproductive powers
of God, and they display their affection by massaging the deity with
milk, water and butter!

These examples of humanisation are indeed an injustice to the
Almighty, who responds clearly by saying in the Qur'an:

"There is nothing like Him and He sees and hears all things" (Surah
Ash-Shoora 42:11)

(ii) Shirk by Deification – This form of shirk occurs when created
beings are given the names or attributes of Allah and thus become
deities. This form of shirk is especially popular with humans, with
many people being given a Godlike status by ignorant followers.
Jesus, Buddha, Rama, Zoroaster and many other famous religious
figures of the past have been held to be incarnations of the
almighty. The last century has also seen many cults emerge, from
which many leaders have claimed divinity. Sai Baba4, David Koresh5,
Guru Rajnishi6 and many more have all claimed this attribute which
only belongs to Allah.

Shirk in the Worship of Allah (Eebaadah) :

This category of shirk has two aspects:

(i) Major Shirk (Shirk-al-Akbar) – As Muslims we believe that all
forms of worship should be for Allah alone. Those people who
physically direct their worship at other than Allah, commit this
major shirk. By doing this action, mankind commits the greatest act
of rebellion and places himself at the doors of eternal hellfire.

Worship in Christianity is usually devoid of God's name, and
Christians often bow down in front of statues of Christ, Mary and
many other saints of Christendom. The Muslims have also fallen foul
to this evil. Thousands, if not millions, of ignorant Muslims make
pilgrimages to the graves of saints and holy men. At the graves they
perform acts which clearly violate the principles of tawheed. They
perform prayers (literally!) at the graveside, they sacrifice in the
name of the dead saint and they make tawwaaf (circumambulation) of
the grave. Many of them even ask the dead saints to grant them
children and to forgive them of their sins! All this contradicts the
statement of Allah when he commands us to:

"Say; Truly my prayer, my sacrifice, my life and my death are all for
Allah, Lord of the worlds" (Surah Al-An'aam 6:162)

Major shirk is rampant amongst the world's population and is
ultimately the obstacle to our salvation.

(ii) Minor Shirk (Shirk-e-Asghar) – "Mahmood bin Lubayd reported that
Allah's Messenger (sallallaahu `alaihe wa sallam) said: `The thing
that I fear for you the most is minor shirk'. The companions
asked: `O' Messenger of Allah, what is minor shirk?' He
replied: `Showing off (ar-riya), for verily Allah will say on the Day
of Resurrection when people are receiving their rewards, `Go to those
whom you were showing off too in the world and see if you can find
any reward from them.'" 7

When doing righteous deeds our intentions should be to please the one
who sustains and keeps us alive. It should not be to please those who
have done nothing in comparison to what the Creator has done. Showing
off has become a disease amongst humans, and tears away at any
sincerity which may be present inside a person. Thus Islam is
probably the only way of life which regulates this minor action, and
places its danger in a proper context.

To know of the dangers of shirk should be of primary importance.
Whether we are Muslim or not, we should realise that it is the crime
of shirk which has led to the destruction of our world. By taking man
away from the worship of Allah, it has led him to the worship of
other men, leading to oppression and tyranny. By confining man to the
narrowness of this world, it will deny him the vastness of the
hereafter, which leads to justice and success. Therefore surely . . .
shirk is the ultimate crime.

Footnotes:-

1 Jinns are another part of Allah's creation. They were created from
smokeless fire and are (like man) required to worship Allah.

2 The Jewish people were granted many favours by Allah. But this
favouritism resulted in them becoming arrogant, and the favours of
Allah were taken away from them.

3 Abdul-Qadir AI-Jeelanee was born in Jeelan (Iran) in the year 1077
CE. He was a jurist of the Hanbalite school of Islamic law. Many
miracles have been falsely attributed to him, elevating him up to a
Godlike status. He himself was very harsh against those who opposed
tawheed. The Qaadiree Sufi order is named after him. He died in the
year 1166 CE.

4 Sai Baba is an Indian holy man who claims the loyalty of millions
worldwide through his multi-faith cult. He is deified to such an
extent that his followers wake up at dawn every day to pray to him.

5 David Koresh was the leader of the Branch Davidian sect based in
Waco, Texas, USA Koresh reinterpreted the teachings of the Bible to
proclaim himself as the son of God. The cult was ended in 1993, when
a fire killed most of Koresh's followers after a shoot-out with FBI
officers.

6 Guru Rajnishi was the leader of a major American commune during
the `80s. The cult lost momentum after it was accused of the
attempted murder of an American politician.

7 Authentic-Narrated by Ahmed, Baihaqee and Tabaranee

[abaddon]

I'm sorry AbuMubarak, I don't buy that at all. You are saying that its the greatest sin to disbelieve a man who claimed to be sent from Allah. Your only "proof" of Allah's existance is the testimony of one man. ONE MAN!!!! Do you know how many many people claim to be sent from god. Thousands upon thousands!!!!
IT WAS HERE THAT I HAD TO EDIT THIS POST

NOT BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE, BUT BECAUSE YOU LABELLED OUR BELOVED PROPHET A FAKE, THAT CANNOT BE TOLERATED HERE

THIS IS YOUR FIRST WARNING

HAVE A NICE DAY

And to say murder, rape, etc is better than worshiping Allah, that's just sick. More proof that religion destroys all logical thought. I would refuse to worship a being who let rapists into heaven but not some one like Gandhi.

[abaddon]

What, can't handle the truth?!!!!! Newsflash.....to say i don't practice Islam assumes that i don't believe mohammad was sent divinely inspired.....5 out of 6 people on this planet believe the same thing....

[AbuMubarak]

look abadan

its one thing to say you arent muslim

its quite another to say that you believe muhammad is a cult leader

i can see your days here are numbered

[AbuMubarak]

Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Prophet of Allah (PBUH) said: "There was a man from among a nation before you who killed ninety-nine people and then made an inquiry about the most learned person on the earth. He was directed to a monk. He came to him and told him that he had killed ninety-nine people and asked him if there was any chance for his repentance to be accepted. He replied in the negative and the man killed him also completing one hundred. He then asked about the most learned man in the earth. He was directed to a scholar. He told him that he had killed one hundred people and asked him if there was any chance for his repentance to be accepted. He replied in the affirmative and asked, `Who stands between you and repentance? Go to such and such land; there (you will find) people devoted to prayer and worship of Allah, join them in worship, and do not come back to your land because it is an evil place.' So he went away and hardly had he covered half the distance when death overtook him; and there was a dispute between the angels of mercy and the angels of torment. The angels of mercy pleaded, 'This man has come with a repenting heart to Allah,' and the angels of punishment argued, 'He never did a virtuous deed in his life.' Then there appeared another angel in the form of a human being and the contending angels agreed to make him arbiter between them. He said, `Measure the distance between the two lands. He will be considered belonging to the land to which he is nearer.' They measured and found him closer to the land (land of piety) where he intended to go, and so the angels of mercy collected his soul".
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

In another version: "He was found to be nearer to the locality of the pious by a cubit and was thus included among them". Another version says: "Allah commanded (the land which he wanted to leave) to move away and commanded the other land (his destination) to draw nearer and then He said: "Now measure the distance between them.' It was found that he was nearer to his goal by a hand's span and was thus forgiven". It is also narrated that he drew closer by a slight movement on his chest.

Commentary:
1. One comes to know from this Hadith that the gate of Taubah is open even for the worst of the sinners; and Allah forgives everyone provided he repents sincerely, the conditions for such repentance have already been discussed.

[Roke]

The name, abaddon, is a demonic name. Thus he is one of Satan's assaliants. Abu Mubarak, don't respond to abaddon.

God told you to ignore Satans. And he is Satan's advocat.

[MalcomBanned4?]

A Hadith based on a conversation between angels? He doesn't like the monks answer so he kills him? Maybe the schlor knew that and told him what he wanted to hear to save his own life. You can live a life full of sin, rapeing killing and as long as you repent before you die you stand a better chance of getting into heaven than a good man who spent his whole life doing good but worshiped the wrong God or maybe no God at all?

[kaphirgoyim]

And what if ones FINAL ACT is the destruction of civilian people that know nothing of Islam or the Prophets? Whose only transgression was in complacency. What if ones final act is of wanton destruction, and done in the name of God. How can such a sinful act OF REVENGE be rewarded.

How can one revere Osama Bin Laden for acts he claims not to have committed? Seems to me the ultimate deception.

Thanks Abu, for the information on shirk and tawheed.

Asalaam, Kaph.

[AbuMubarak]

ok, lemme see if i can explain this

in islam, Allah is known as Ar-Rahman, the most kind, beneficent, merciful, etc

Allah is also known as At-tawaab, the acceptor of repentance

when Allah created adam, adam had the entire garden, except for a tree

adam disobeyed Allah, and Allah sent him to earth to live and die, adam repented and was forgiven

Allah created satan, and satan had reached a certain level, and Allah told satan to bow to adam, satan refused, and refused to repent, he was arrogant and haughty

as we, the people live, we come far short from where we should be, but Allah in His perfect state, will accept repentance from all of our deeds, no matter how awful

but to attribute partners to Allah, to deny Allah, to lie about Allah, is a greater sin than any sin we can commit on this meager earth

everything and everyone on this earth is but a mere drop to Allah, He gave us life and has informed us that we shall all die, so the life of this world is basically worthless, except for the righteousness we do, and repentance for our faults

so even killing 99 people, seems awful to us, but to Allah, He had already decreed that those people die

just like if you kill me, you are wrong, but Allah had already decreed my death to be by your hands

this is a very very deep point, but it takes a sincere heart to reflect on all of this, and i am not sure i am explaining it correctly, but if you need further clarification, i may be able to help

[AbuMubarak]

Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
And what if ones FINAL ACT is the destruction of civilian people that know nothing of Islam or the Prophets? Whose only transgression was in complacency. What if ones final act is of wanton destruction, and done in the name of God. How can such a sinful act OF REVENGE be rewarded.

How can one revere Osama Bin Laden for acts he claims not to have committed? Seems to me the ultimate deception.

Thanks Abu, for the information on shirk and tawheed.

Asalaam, Kaph. kafir, lets get a little deeper

lets look at what happened sept 11,

3000 innocent people were brought to their deaths, a terrible thing

did you read what i wrote, it was a terrible thing

but

each one of those people were created by Allah, Allah is in control, Allah decides who lives, for how long, and how they die, Allah is your lord, my lord, their lord

these people, even if they lived to be 10,000 years old, they would still have to face death

the catch is that since the day we are born, and especially after we hit puberty, we are responsible for worshipping our Lord, the one true god

now if we choose to let the life of this world deceive us, that is no one's fault but ours

if you look around, you will see all kinds of muslims, good ones, bad ones, american ones, arab ones, and all in between

some became muslim yesterday, they will die tomorrow and they will be forgiven

some muslims were born into islam, they dont pray, they fornicate, drink, and do every abomination, those muslims (unless they repent) will be in hell for thousands of years

some kafirs pray, fast, and give charity, but they are not doing it for Allah, they are doing it for jesus, because they were born into this or that religion, but they are not doing it for the Lord who created them and to whom we shall all return

so who is actually worse off? usamah for killing 3000 people, with a twisted understanding of islam, (of which i do not believe) or someone who has lived amongst Allah's earth, ate His food, enjoyed the bodies that Allah gave them, the families Allah gave them, and all of the other bounties, too numerous to count

[AbuMubarak]

Originally posted by MalcomBanned4?
A Hadith based on a conversation between angels? He doesn't like the monks answer so he kills him? Maybe the schlor knew that and told him what he wanted to hear to save his own life. You can live a life full of sin, rapeing killing and as long as you repent before you die you stand a better chance of getting into heaven than a good man who spent his whole life doing good but worshiped the wrong God or maybe no God at all?

malcom, yes a conversation between angels

yes, he killed the monk

yes you can commit all types of sin, even the worst sin (shirk) and if you repent before you die, Allah will most likely forgive you

we forget why we are here, or we dont know why we are here

we are here to worship Allah, not to live in some utopia

utopia is in the hereafter, this is just a training ground

malcom, check this out
your perspective is skewed

Allah and life does not owe us anything, we owe Allah everything

if you dont like what Allah has decreed, find a lord other than Him (hadith qudsi)

and of course you cant, so the bottom line is to submit to your Lord

that submission is called, islam

islam is what Allah has ordained upon mankind since adam was created, it was finalize with the Prophet Muhammad ibn Abdullah (sas)

you guys have got to stop fighting truth, you gonna get a headache

[Bilal]

In Islam : No human know his fate to hell or to heavens, only Allah sort us!!

[MalcomBanned4?]

AbuMubarak, Thanks for the explanation, I'll have to agree to disagree. I believe the man who kills 100 people will go to he_l, and the man that leads a good moral life will go to heaven reguardless of the religion fate lays upon him.

[AbuMubarak]

Uniqueness of the Name

The name for the religion of Islam is much more than just a name
because it expresses a deep spiritual meaning as well as an overall
outlook on life and concept of worship. The word "Islam" is an Arabic
word which means "complete submission to the will of Almighty God".
Other religions are named after their founders, such as Christianity
and Buddhism; after a tribe or ethnic group, such as Judaism; or
after a specific geographical region, such as Hinduism. Islam,
however, is unique because its name represents its outlook on life
and reflects its universal nature. Additionally, the name "Islam" was
not thought up by its followers or applied by other people, as is the
case with the names of other religions, but was revealed by Almighty
God. This name expressed nothing new, because submission to the will
of God, i.e. "Islam", has always been the true religion of God. Due
to this fact, and since the teachings of Islam are straightforward,
profound and logical, Islam is the "Natural Religion" of all human
beings. The name of no other religion carries any significant
message, or conveys the true sense of its outlook on life, as does
the name "Islam".



Universality & Continuity of the Message

The command to worship none other than Almighty God and to submit to
His will has been revealed by God to all of His prophets throughout
mankind's long history. The pure essence of the beliefs and teachings
that were revealed by God to the Prophet Muhammad are the same as God
taught to Abraham, who was one of the earliest and greatest prophets.
So actually, Muhammad is the final prophet of Islam -- not the first.
Additionally, Islam is the true "religion of Abraham", because
Abraham completely submitted himself to the revealed will of Almighty
God. Islam is truly unique among the religions of the world because
it is addressed to all of mankind. The scripture of Islam, called the
Qur'an, repeatedly addresses all human beings by saying: "O mankind!"
Additionally, in the Qur'an, Almighty God is never addressed as the
God of a particular people or nation. From the very beginning of the
mission of Prophet Muhammad, his followers came from a wide spectrum
of individuals -- there was Bilal, the African slave; Suhaib, the
Byzantine Roman; Ibn Sailam, the Jewish Rabbi; and Salman, the
Persian. Since religious truth is eternal and unchanging, and mankind
is one universal brotherhood, God's revelations to man have always
been consistent and universal. Submission to the will of God, and
worshipping Him alone without intermediaries, has always been the
only religion acceptable to Almighty God.



A Straightforward Concept of God

Unique among the religions of the world, the concept of God in Islam
is completely based upon Divine Revelation. Not only is the concept
of God in Islam characterized by purity and clarity, but it is also
not marred by myths, superstitions or man-made philosophical ideas.
In the pure and straightforward teachings of Islam, Almighty God has
clearly revealed His unique nature and qualities to man in the way
which He wants them to be understood. While other religions have
either mixed man-made doctrines with divine revelation, or ignored
the divine revelation almost completely, Islam's concept of God is
based totally on what God has said about Himself. Islam's concept of
God can be called pure and straightforward because there is a clear
distinction made between the Creator and the created. As such, there
is no ambiguity in divinity -- it is made clear that there is nothing
divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God. In
Islam, calling someone other than Almighty God "Lord" or "Savior" is
completely prohibited because such terms compromise God's uniqueness
and because all of our trust should be put in Almighty God -- who is
the Most Merciful and the Controller of all affairs. The only
Creator -- Almighty God -- is Unique, Eternal and Transcendent above
His Creation. Everything else besides Almighty God -- meaning
anything that you can see or even imagine -- is part of God's
creation, and thus not worthy of worship. Almighty God, as He has
described Himself in the Qur'an, is Absolutely One and "the Most
Merciful of those who show mercy". Even though God is transcendent
above His creation, due to His infinite Mercy He is constantly
involved with the affairs of His creatures. Even though God is
infinite, unique and incomprehensible, in the Holy Qur'an He has
revealed Himself in a way suitable to the finite and limited human
mind. By reaching out to man and sending revelations through all of
His prophets, God has allowed Himself to be known through His unique
and most-beautiful attributes. Because the concept of God in Islam
was sent by God specifically for mankind, it appeals to the innate
nature of the human being. Due to this fact, Islam does not ask man
to accept irrational, ludicrous or man-made doctrines about God. The
Islamic concept of God strikes a unique balance between various
religions an because is avoids reducing God to just being some remote
and impersonal "First Cause" or "Higher Power", while on the other
hand it also teaches that a direct and personal relationship with God
can be maintained without believing God to be like His creation or
incarnate in it.



Direct Relationship with God

In other religions, even the ones which claim belief in "One God",
people often approach God through an intermediary, such as a saint,
an angel, the Virgin Mary or Jesus. However, it is only in Islam that
a person is required only to pray to God. Some people also nullify a
truly proper and direct relationship with Almighty God by mistakenly
believing that they have a special relationship with Him simply
because they are members of a certain ethnic group, tribe or "chosen
people". Additionally, in Islam there are no priests or clergy --
each worshipper, man or woman, has a direct relationship with their
Merciful Creator -- Almighty God. Since God is the Owner and
Sustainer of everything, as well as the only one who can provide true
and complete forgiveness, it is completely futile to try to approach
Him through anyone else. According to the teachings of Islam, praying
to or worshipping anything or anyone besides Almighty God is the
greatest sin a person can commit. Even though other religions believe
in God, they nullify this belief by making the grave mistake of not
always approaching Him directly. Some religions even go so far as to
say that human beings, due to their sinfulness, cannot approach God
without an intermediary -- which mistakenly implies that God is
unable or unwilling to forgive human-beings directly. Islam teaches
that Almighty God has the power to do all things and that no one
should ever despair of His mercy. According to the teachings of
Islam, God is always ready to bestow His abundant Grace and Mercy on
anyone who turns to Him in repentance. Even people who used to commit
the worst sin of worshipping others besides God will be forgiven if
they realize what they are doing is wrong and repent. Having a direct
relationship with God, and understanding that He alone deserves
worship and praise, goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of
God. This is because once a proper concept of God is established in
the heart and mind, submission to God and complete reliance on Him
alone comes naturally.



Unique Concept of Worship

According to the teachings of Islam, everything that a human being
does with the pure intention of pleasing God is an act of worship.
Due to this, Islam has an all encompassing concept of worship unlike
any other religion. Almighty God has revealed in the Holy Qur'an that
His purpose for creating human beings was to worship Him and Him
alone. Like other religions, Islam has required acts of worship,
however worship in Islam is not limited to rituals. Since Islam is an
all-encompassing religion with guidance for all aspects of life.
almost every action in a Muslim's life becomes an act of worship if
it is done to build a better relationship with God. Since man's
purpose in life is to worship and submit to God, worship in Islam has
been defined by God Himself in an all-encompassing way. This is
special uniqueness can also be seen in the fact that most other
religions only require formal worship once per week, while Islam
requires it five times a day. Even more importantly, all rites of
formal worship in Islam are based on Divine revelation, while the
modes of worship in other religions are a mixture of Divine
revelation, man-made traditions, opinions of clergymen and religious
councils. Additionally, in Islam acts of worship such as prayer and
fasting have been described by God and His Prophet in such detail
that it gives human beings a feeling of assurance that the way they
are worshipping God is pleasing to Him.



Based on Authentic Sources

The preservation of the scripture of Islam -- the Holy Qur'an -- is
unique among world religions. No other religion has a scripture which
is both as old and as well-preserved as the one possessed by Muslims
today. Even scholars who are hostile to Islam admit that the Qur'an
that exists today is exactly the same as the one that existed in the
time of the Prophet Muhammad. Even though many people mistakenly
assume that the Qu'ran (also spelled Koran) was written by Muhammad,
it is actually the literal Word of God. Not only was Muhammad known
by his people to be unable to read and write, but the Holy Qur'an
clearly and repeatedly exclaims that it is from Almighty God - the
Lord of the Universe. Unlike other religions, the followers of Islam
have always considered their scripture to be the Word of God in toto.
The scriptures of other religions are made up of writings that were
not considered to be scripture until many years after they were
written - the letters of (St.) Paul are a good example of this.
Additionally, the Holy Qur'an has always been in the possession of
the common believer, and as such was circulated very widely. In this
way, Muslims know that their scripture is authentic, unlike other so-
called "scriptures" which are still claimed to be scripture even
though their authors are unknown. The Qur'an also remained pure and
authentic because unlike other scriptures, it was written down and
memorized in the lifetime of the prophet that it was revealed to.
Also, its wide circulation prevented scholars, clergy and religious
councils from deciding what should and should not be part of the
scripture -- since it was already in the hands of the people in its
complete form. It has always amazed people to find out that the
entire Qur'an was not only memorized word-for-word by hundreds of the
companions of Prophet Muhammad, but that it has been memorized
verbatim by thousands upon thousands of people until this very day in
its original language of Arabic. It was only natural for Almighty God
to preserve the scripture revealed to Prophet Muhammad, because he
was the last Prophet and Final Messenger of God. In short, the Qu'ran
is a unique scripture that has come down to us in its original form
and unique language. Due to its pristine teachings and unquestionable
authenticity, the Qur'an removes the need for man to wonder for
himself how to worship and please God, since God Himself has clearly
described these things.



An Eternal Message

Islam has just as much meaning and is just as applicable to people
living in today's "modern world" as it did for people living 1400
years ago. Since the message of Islam is eternally true it is also
very robust, and as such still has a strong spiritual impact on
millions of people living in the world today. The Pure Monotheism of
Islam, as well as its universal brotherhood, strong morals and
positive outlook on life, is still very relevant and meaningful to
modern man. The continued relevance and applicability to both the
spiritual and worldly life of human beings from all around the word
is just one of the many proofs of the Divine origin of the message of
Islam. Unlike the teachings of other religions, the teachings of
Islam don't need to be updated or watered-down in order to appeal to
a human being living in today's troubled world. Since the teachings
of Islam are both spiritually true and eternally practical, they can
be lived and implemented in the daily life of a person in order to
make their life more fulfilling. In short, unique among world
religions, Islam has not had to sacrifice its integrity in order to
be both applicable to "modern life" and to have enough spiritual
impact to change people's lives.



A Complete Way of Life

Islam not just a "religion" in the traditional sense, because it is
not just confined to acts of worship, morality and other aspects of
personal piety. The teachings of Islam, even though they do cover
religious rituals and morality, also encompass all other aspects of
life. The Prophet Muhammad's mission encompassed not only spiritual
and religious teachings, but also included guidance for such things
as social reform, economics, politics, warfare and family life. Thus
due to the diversity and success of Muhammad's mission, Muslims have
clear guidance from God and His Final Prophet on all aspects of life.
This goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic belief that Almighty God does
not leave human beings without guidance in their daily lives -- thus
His guidance is all-encompassing. Due to God's wisdom, and because
Islam is the final revealed religion, the guidance that God has sent
is applicable for all times and for all places. This can be seen in
the fact that the guidance for some aspects of life is much more
broad and flexible than others. Additionally, in the Qur'an, Almighty
God has revealed to mankind that the purpose of our creation is to
worship and remember God in all aspects of our life, and to follow
His guidance in everything that we do. Thus Islam does not accept a
secular view of government and society, but only one based on the Law
of God. Nor does Islam leave it to human beings to decide what is
right and wrong, good and bad, moral and immoral based on their
whims, desires or man-made idea. In short, Islam does not teach
people to "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's" because,
according to Islam, everything belongs to God. Like all of its other
teachings, Islam's view of other religions is balanced, realistic and
moderate. Islam doesn't view other religions as being either
completely true nor completely false, but believes that all true
religions were at one time divinely revealed. However, over time the
teachings of the various religions, due to a variety of reasons, have
become distorted and mixed with made-man ideas. But nonetheless,
Muslims are required to be tolerant of other revealed religions since
the Qur'an clearly says: "Let there be no compulsion in religion".



Moderation

The teachings of Islam, since they are divinely revealed, are
balanced in all of their aspects. Even though Islam is an all-
encompassing way of life, it preaches moderation and rejects
extremism. On the one hand, Islam does not preach complete rejection
of all worldly pleasures in view of the life hereafter; and on the
other hand it does not teach that earthly life is just for pleasure
and enjoyment. In Islam, wealth and worldly pleasures can be partaken
of in this life as long as they are enjoyed in a way that is in
obedience to God. However, Muslims are taught to keep in mind that
the life hereafter is their ultimate goal, and therefore one should
be charitable and not become too attached to worldly things. By
maintaining a balance between man's spiritual and physical needs, the
teachings of Islam are best suited for the needs of human beings in
particular and society in general. Since Islam is based on clear
guidance from God, it rejects all man-made religious excesses, such
as certain forms of monasticism where people try to
completely "reject the world" and other forms of extreme self-denial.
Islam teaches that human beings have responsibilities at all levels --
to other individuals, to their families and to society as a whole.
By maintaining a unique balance between the physical and spiritual,
and between the individual and society, Islam maintains a balance in
all directions.



A Positive Outlook

Most people will agree that having a strong self-esteem and a
positive outlook on life is conducive to achieving happiness and
success. Unique among the religions of the world, Islam's view of
both the nature of the human being and the purpose of life are
extremely positive. Islam's view of the nature of the human being is
balanced. On the one hand they are not viewed as being inherently
evil, but on the other they are not considered to be perfect - nor
are they expected to be so. According to the teachings of Islam,
every human being, man or woman, is born with a clean slate and is
equally capable of both good and evil. Since God has bestowed limited
free-will on human beings, they will ultimately be held responsible
for their actions. Believing that "salvation" is based on "faith
alone" reduces human life to a near meaningless and fatalistic
existence. The teachings of Islam make it clear that human beings,
since their nature is basically good, are capable of positive action
in this life, and that the best way to achieve a balanced, happy and
fulfilled life is complete submission to Almighty God. Certainly, no
person can completely submit to God by simply wanting to do so, but
by first realizing that none has a right to be worshipped and obeyed
except for Almighty God, and then making a reasonable effort to
follow God's commands, all human beings can fulfill their reason for
existence - which is to worship God alone. . The Holy Qur'an tells us
that "man was created weak" and thus falls into sin often. On the
other hand, man is not to think of himself as so evil and corrupt so
as to despair of God's mercy. As a recourse to this, and since Islam
condemns self-righteousness, a pious life can only be lived by
trusting in God -- since there is no power or strength except through
God. As such, spiritual felicity is achieved by a combination of both
faith and action. As such, the most righteous person is not one who
thinks that repentance is unnecessary, but the one who admits and
realizes his mistakes - and then repents. According to the word of
Almighty God as revealed in the Holy Qur'an, mankind is God's trustee
on earth; and as such the life of this world is a test, not a
punishment. Even before God created the first man, He knew that he
would sin, however God created man in spite of this. According to the
Qur'an, God has bestowed on human beings a great trust and given them
dignity. It is only by worshipping Almighty God, directly and without
intermediaries, that a human being can fulfull their true innate
nature and purpose of existence. In short, Islam is realistic. It
portrays human beings just as they are and the life of the world just
as it is. Since the outlook of Islam is divinely revealed is not
based on wishful or negative thinking, but simply on reality. Islam
also has a positive view of mankind in general, since it teaches that
the best person in the sight of God is the one who is most God-
conscious. In this way the truth of Islam and the universality of
God's message transcends all of the barriers of race, nationality,
ethnic group and economic status.

[AbuMubarak]

All Praise belongs to Allaah and He is Sufficient. Peace and
Blessings be upon His Servants whom He chose.

To Proceed: Know - may Allaah direct you - that Allaah the Exalted
created the Creation so that it may worship Him and not associate
anything (as a partner or equal) to Him.

The Exalted said:

And I have not created Jinn and Men except that they may worship Me
[Dhaariyaat 51:56]



He also said:

And did you think that We created you in jest (for a pastime) and
that you would not be returned to Us? [Mu'minoon 23:115]

Also His speech:

Do they not think deeply in their own souls - We did not create the
Heavens and the Earth and all that is between them except with Truth
and for a term appointed. [Sajdah 32:8]

The Messenger (sas) said: Indeed Allaah has appointed you as
vicegerents upon the Earth to see how you would behave... [Saheeh
Muslim]

[luminous]

People, you really think these people are in hell because they are not muslim?
In that case every non muslim (in your eyes )will go to hell......if your consience doesnot immediately tell you that something is very wrong with such thinking then.....i think that must make your relations with non-muslims quite pointless and harsh unless you are trying to convert them all!
As a Christian, am I to assume that every muslim i meet thinks i will go to hell unless i renounce my faith? I lay no claim to perfection but i do lay claim to this .... God's amazing love for me (enough to die for me!). I don't serve God because i am afraid of going to hell. I serve him because i am assured of his love and so believe that all he restricts is for my own good and that this brings me a step closer to Him.

I wish you peace oh and by the way....I have not condemned anyone to be fit for hell because;
1 I am NOT God (I haven't the slightest right to comment on people's fate)
2 I am too busy trying to ensure i get there myself
3 I am taught to love ALL men as i love myself (this for me means trying to see the good in all men...as hard as that is sometimes).

[Olabi Olabi]

a man kills 99 people, repents, that man has a good chance of entering heaven (providing he didnt worship other than Allah)



Man, you preach alot of rubbish.

What are you suggesting that he should go out and blow up 99 people and repent, that way he has a better chance of heaven than sitting at home?!

Sort yourself out blud. :hidban:

[Leena_Cnd]

As a Christian, am I to assume that every muslim i meet thinks i will go to hell unless i renounce my faith? .
One prob. with what you have said.
'Christians' themselves . . . quote "all will go to hell,
unless through Jesus". :rolleyes:
.
.

[Roman Crusader]

I'm sorry AbuMubarak, I don't buy that at all. You are saying that its the greatest sin to disbelieve a man who claimed to be sent from Allah. Your only "proof" of Allah's existance is the testimony of one man. ONE MAN!!!! Do you know how many many people claim to be sent from god. Thousands upon thousands!!!!
IT WAS HERE THAT I HAD TO EDIT THIS POST

NOT BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE, BUT BECAUSE YOU LABELLED OUR BELOVED PROPHET A FAKE, THAT CANNOT BE TOLERATED HERE

THIS IS YOUR FIRST WARNING

HAVE A NICE DAY

And to say murder, rape, etc is better than worshiping Allah, that's just sick. More proof that religion destroys all logical thought. I would refuse to worship a being who let rapists into heaven but not some one like Gandhi.

He denies God but names himself after The Destroyer of Life......can't have it both ways. Why you would choose the name of a demon is tied up in your desire to create turmoil, anger and distress. Though some of us here may disagree on many aspects of our faiths we, as a group, believe in God.

Get thee behind me satan for with God I have no fear of you!

[Klaus]

.
One prob. with what you have said.
'Christians' themselves . . . quote "all will go to hell,
unless through Jesus". :rolleyes:
.
.


Keep in mind, however, that what shocks him, me, and most other Christians is the excessively drastic God that portraits Islam, in contrasts with our view of Him. Personally, even though I respect and value Islam as a formidable religion, with great heads and a stability throughout history to be jealous of, along with a strong theo-philosophical basis, one of the main reasons I can not start to accept it as the right way is the extreme unforgiveness that it labels to God; I can not picture an unforgiving God, simple as that.
We claim that salvation is attained through the acceptance of Jesus, indeed. However, God always will give you a "second chance", so to speak, and I am convinced, as are those with whom I share my faith with, that even after an entire life of denying God, one will be faced with the option to choose. God understands that it in this world of ours is becoming increasingly more difficult to follow Him, as temptation of all kinds is everywhere, where morals are being maimed and twisted day after day, and there is a cacophony of voices claiming false gods and ideals to follow.

The core of Jesus' message was one of love, forgiveness, and understanding, not one of "faith just because" or anything of the like. We do should never, ever, follow God because of fear, but because our understanding that, only through Him, we will ever be able to fulfill that which we were told twenty centuries ago: Love even to those we see as our enemies.

As I said before, I respect Islam as a completely acceptable path, but always understanding that it has a mistaken view of God (please, do not take this as an offense of any kind; there would be little sense on following a religion if one thought everyone was correct; I am sure you all understand that).

So as an answer to the poll, no, I do not think they are all in Hell. I am quite sure most of them are in Heaven (I can not speak for all of them, as some of the popes, and even some of the saints, were not exactly "role-models" of the word of Christ).

[Leena_Cnd]

I can not start to accept it as the right way is the extreme unforgiveness that it labels to God; I can not picture an unforgiving God, simple as that.
The core of Jesus' message was one of love, forgiveness, and understanding, not one of "faith just because" or anything of the like. We do should never, ever, follow God because of fear, but because our understanding that, only through Him, we will ever be able to fulfill that which we were told twenty centuries ago: Love even to those we see as our enemies.
As I said before, I respect Islam as a completely acceptable path, . . . .
The main problem in todays society is misconceptions
and emmotional 'walls' to block out 'others'.
Truth is, Islam is a message of love, forgiveness, and understanding.
eg.
40:7
. . . implore forgiveness for the faithful, . . . .
'Lord, You embrace all things with Your mercy and Your knowledge.
Forgive those that repent and follow Your path. Sheild them from the scourge of Hell.'
~~~
But then there are 'unbelievers' who for no other reason,
go out to tarnish Allah's (swt) name, and induce misconceptions
to 'justify' :rolleyes: their own unethical means.
Love even to those we see as our enemies. .
Easy to say, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Too often you see bigoted 'christians',
as pat robertson/bush/israel . . . 'love' their 'enemies'.
They have a tendency to tell you what one wants to hear, yet
they themselves hypocritically do the opposite.
I find Islam is not so, yet up front.
.

[Klaus]

No one said following the path to virtue was easy, my friend! Of course it is hard to see the "love for one's enemies" being put to practice, but if you look with care you will find many examples. Please do not bastardize the argument by using individuals like Pat Robertson or the United States Army; they have nothing to do with the subject.
A great example was John Paul II the Great, who in peace he rests now, when he granted forgiveness, in person, to the man who attempted to kill him. If that is not a good example of the teachings of Jesus put into practice, then I do not know which one is.

So, if a man as John Paul II the Great, who was a true role-model but a man like you and me nonetheless, was able to grant forgiveness to the very man who almost ended his life, and even considering the man professed a different religion, how can we not expect God himself to be even *more* forgiving than that?

Now, I do not claim Islam to be a religion of hate and unforgiveness or anything of the like. Much on the opposite direction, I often spend good deals of time explaining others that Islam is a religion of peace. However, what I do have difficulties consorting with is the way Islam pictures God; certainly, I see many Muslims indicating that the ultimate answer is up to God (and I concur with them), but the overall message is that if you do not join the ranks of Islam, you have immense chances of being thrown to rot and burn in Hell, no matter how many good deeds you accomplished in life. And that is not how I believe God is, not by a long shot.

[Leena_Cnd]

but the overall message is that if you do not join the ranks of Islam, you have immense chances of being thrown to rot and burn in Hell, no matter how many good deeds you accomplished in life. .
U.S. is just like that.
If not to join the ranks of
patriotism/secular mentality, no matter how many
good deeds you accomplish . . . you will be
condemned as an out cast.
Cindy Sheshan comes to mind :D
Low and behold if you wear a T-shirt around a patriot, reminding them of the lost lives in a senseless war.
. . . may as well be segregated as ones Guantanamo:(
.
.
.
.
.
.

[Klaus]

I really do not understands what does the United States have to do with the topic here. We are speaking about something entirely unrelated to what your are pointing out. Trying to relate the ways of Christianity to the actions of the United States is very, very wrong and a mistaken course of action for any argument.

[Raziel]

In Islam : No human know his fate to hell or to heavens, only Allah sort us!!

Salam bro,

those who have Rejected the Deen-ul Haqq/Islam, and die as such can be Sure of their Fate in Jahannam, the Quran Explicitly states this ... we are even told not to Pray for any of them, as they will not be Forgiven...

Al-Quran, Chapter 9 : Verse 84
-------------------------------
"Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion."

Further Allah Tabarak-Wata'ala says...

Al-Quran, Chapter 2
--------------------
Verse 161 : Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

Verse 162 : They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

as to the Fate of the Muslims, Allah Ta'ala knows who's repentance has been accepted, who will be punished etc...

:jkk:

[Raziel]

Mother Teresa, all the Christian saints and all the dead Popes are in hell and Mohamid Attia and Salah Shahada are in paradise.

As to the Fate of Mother Teresa, if She died as a Non-Muslim, Rejecting God All-Mighty, ascribing Falsities to him, then she's will be in Jahannam/Hell ...

Popes and anybody else who has not Reverted to Al-Islam/Submission to Allah Ta'ala will share the same fate.

I don't know who Mohammad Attia/Salah Shahada are, but if they were Following the Quran and Sunnah, then Insha'allah they shall be in Jannah!

regards.

[AbuMubarak]

according to reports from her church, she didnt even believe in God

and we had muslims here, crying the blues because she died and we said she was in hell

[Raziel]

according to reports from her church, she didnt even believe in God

and we had muslims here, crying the blues because she died and we said she was in hell

Akhi it's only those who don't read the Quran nor use their Intellect that make such statements ...

they seem to think a Good Deed(s) here and there to please Human beings, while Rejecting ones Own Lord, committing many other Sins, suffices as a one way ticket to Jannah ...

in such low estimation do they hold Al-Jannah!

:jkk:

[Cartman]

y'all need to back up of saying people are going to hell, because u never know who is going. If you dont know your own fate, i wouldnt dwelve into the fate of others

[AbuMubarak]

cartman you are right

here i am thinking islam is the right path, and after reading your posts, who am i to say?

shucks, i have always wondered what it would be like to be a hindu, i used to be hesitant, but now, maybe........you never know

worshipping cows and rats isnt that bad, and now according to cartman, i dont have to worry about going to hell, because NO ONE KNOWS

its wide open

listen cartman, what are we going to do with all of those ayaat in quran that says to enjoin what is right, forbid what is wrong, and those who deny will be in hell and so forth?

maybe we can make a new religion, where everyone is accepted

o, that would be the bhai, right

i have always wondered what it would be like to be a bhai...................

[Cartman]

oh no doubt we are right, and no doubt i believe all those other religions are crazy, but what im saying is that it is not our place to say who is going to hell or not.

do you disagree? Do you feel you have the authority to tell people who will be going to hell or not?

i was pretty sure as muslims we believed that only allah decided that..........maybe im wrong

[AbuMubarak]

how are you going to warn people from hell if you cant even figure out how to get there?

Allah lays out the instructions of what is hell, clearly, so there is no doubt

do you have doubt?

if you dont, then you know what it takes to get to hell

worshipping jesus as a son of god is a one way ticket, or do you disagree?

[Cartman]

how are you going to warn people from hell if you cant even figure out how to get there?

Allah lays out the instructions of what is hell, clearly, so there is no doubt

do you have doubt?

if you dont, then you know what it takes to get to hell

worshipping jesus as a son of god is a one way ticket, or do you disagree?

you can warn people that their wrong beliefs are what allah considers hellfire worthy, but you cant be saying that so and so is going to the hellfire, when your safety from the hellfire is not even guaranteed.

YEs, but you dont know what allah will do, so it is not your place

there's no doubt in my mind that non believers will be punished, but regardless, I dont have the authority to say who is going to hell or not.

[AbuMubarak]

we are to judge by the apparent, not the hidden

[Cartman]

we are to judge by the apparent, not the hidden

give me any proof that allows you to condemn an individual to hell. and you can't always judge by the apparent. You know the story of Al-Khadir, and musa (PBUH) judged by the apparent and failed to see the truth underneath

[Morris]

we are to judge by the apparent, not the hidden



For me, as a Christian I try to follow what Jesus taught. But surely to judge whether people will be brought into God's presence after death or not is Gods business not mine. It is abhorrent to me that I should attempt to take on what is Gods role, a mere woman.


I did'nt know Muslims were to judge other Muslims?

[Joha]

according to reports from her church, she didnt even believe in God

and we had muslims here, crying the blues because she died and we said she was in hell

I don't know why Muslims are crying blues, I wouldn't, but it does smack of a lack of tact - on your part to say that she'll go to hell - considering we don't know whether we're going to heaven or not.

I mean, what's the point? She's gone, let her argue it out with her creator.

[AbuMubarak]

in Quran, Allah tells the Prophet to not pray over unbelievers whose case is settled, they will be companions of the fire

according to you guys, we should give everyone a janaza because no one knows who is kafir and going to hell

[Joha]

in Quran, Allah tells the Prophet to not pray over unbelievers whose case is settled, they will be companions of the fire

according to you guys, we should give everyone a janaza because no one knows who is kafir and going to hell

True, we know who's a kafir - in fact we don't always. We base whether we give janazah on the apparent, and on their declaration of Islam. So we don't really know who's a kafir at heart.

Nevertheless, declaring who is going to hell is slightly pointless.

[AbuMubarak]

the kuffar will be in jannah?

[AbuMubarak]

aftr the balle of uhud, the prophet said, our dead are in jannah, your dead are in hell

was that only thru wahy?

[feroz@aconite.c]

How do you know what a person died on?

I have a fiend who reverted to Islam, he used to be a priest, now studying deen in one of the islmic institutions here in South Africa. He was once with Mother Theresa distributing food in Africa. He claims that once they were afraid that the food would run short and she said to recite "bismillah" while serving it.

There are many world leaders whose close confidants claim accepted Islam so be careful of taking names. Yes, it is Allah's decree that should a person die on the wrong belief they will remain in hell forever in the next world but if a person even without declaring it died on the belief that Allah is one, and believed in all the messengers including Muhammad (SAW) as the last and the other necessary articles of faith than that person died as a muslim.


----------------
http://richmuslim.blogspot.com

[AbuMubarak]

you are so right

we should give everyone salat janaza

[Cartman]

you are so right

we should give everyone salat janaza

stop being arrogant, noone said Kuffar are going to heaven or that we need to give everyone a proper janaza.

what we are saying is that you dont know your fate, so stop trying to guess at others.

Unless you can see the Mother of The Book, and tell me that you are going to heaven, and then look into the mother of the book and know the future of so and so, you cant say they are going to hell.

can you?

IF you can, can i have some hadith for it? Im waiting............

[Cartman]

aftr the balle of uhud, the prophet said, our dead are in jannah, your dead are in hell

was that only thru wahy?


That's RAsulullah, last time I checked, allah doesnt give you divine inspiration.

and last I checked, Rasulullah was the only one whose sins past, present and future were forgiven

[AbuMubarak]

so you say when he said that, it was not because these people were kafirs

but, it was because Allah revealed to him that they were in hell?

so i guess you agree that we should give everyone a janaza, because we dont know who is muslim and who isnt, and we dont know who is kafir and who isnt

someone could die on what appears to be kufr, but we should assume that they are muslim

cool

so now, what about all of those kafirs who do not want to have a salatu janaza?

[AbuMubarak]

stop being arrogant, noone said Kuffar are going to heaven or that we need to give everyone a proper janaza.

what we are saying is that you dont know your fate, so stop trying to guess at others.

Unless you can see the Mother of The Book, and tell me that you are going to heaven, and then look into the mother of the book and know the future of so and so, you cant say they are going to hell.

can you?

IF you can, can i have some hadith for it? Im waiting............

so its not that you are coming from left field, its that i am being arrogant?

ok, lemme ask you this, in as humble a manner as possible

when Allah says DO NOT PRAY OVER THOSE WHO DIE ON DISBELIEF, is that just for the Prophet or are we allowed to pray over those who die on disbelief?

now, if mother teresa took shahada and Allah accepted it, then she died as a muslim, i agree

but from what i last understood about islam, is that shahada is public, just for this very reason

so mother teresa, if she died on kufr and shirk, would you say that she died a kafir and that kafirs are in hell for eternity

or has Allah revealed some new info to you?

[Ibn Sina]

someones extra grumpy today :S

Anyway, Allah is al-Hakim and al-`Adl so there.

[Cartman]

so you say when he said that, it was not because these people were kafirs

but, it was because Allah revealed to him that they were in hell?

so i guess you agree that we should give everyone a janaza, because we dont know who is muslim and who isnt, and we dont know who is kafir and who isnt

someone could die on what appears to be kufr, but we should assume that they are muslim

cool

so now, what about all of those kafirs who do not want to have a salatu janaza?


Yes, like for example when he knew that PErson who had stole was going to Hell, or that man who would later committ suicide was going to hell. Allah gives him special information.


No, you dont even get my point. IT doesnt matter what someone appears to die on, YOU ARE NOT AL HAKIM, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE UNSEEN NOR THE FUTURE, SO YOU CAN NEVER NEVER EVER EVER EVER JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE's FATE IN THE AFTERLIFE. capice?

[Cartman]

so its not that you are coming from left field, its that i am being arrogant?

ok, lemme ask you this, in as humble a manner as possible

when Allah says DO NOT PRAY OVER THOSE WHO DIE ON DISBELIEF, is that just for the Prophet or are we allowed to pray over those who die on disbelief?

now, if mother teresa took shahada and Allah accepted it, then she died as a muslim, i agree

but from what i last understood about islam, is that shahada is public, just for this very reason

so mother teresa, if she died on kufr and shirk, would you say that she died a kafir and that kafirs are in hell for eternity

or has Allah revealed some new info to you?

yes youre being arrogatn by declaring who is going to hell or not (and some other things, but besides the point) especially when you dont know anything that's going to happen 3 minutes from now. IF you dont have knowledge of the imminent future, how can you have any knowledge of the ultimate future, which is the Akhira. You dont.

Im not going to assume. Even if she apparently died on Kufr, I wouldnt say whether she is going to enter Jannah or the Jahanamm because I simply dont know, and neither do you.

And for some reason, you refuse to drive that through your head

[Raziel]

y'all need to back up of saying people are going to hell, because u never know who is going. If you dont know your own fate, i wouldnt dwelve into the fate of others

If a Person Dies as a Non-Muslim then they are Certainly going to Jahannam ...

Why cause Allah Tabarakwata'ala says so ...

theres no Ifs or buts here ... (no offence meant) :o

I backed up my statement with Irrefutable evidence from the Quran before and can do so again ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 2
--------------------
Verse 161 : Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

Verse 162 : They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

No Muslim can refute this ... the Kuffar are among the group of people we can say are Certainly going to Jahannam, Unless they revert to Islam in their Lifetimes...

:jkk:

[Tosh]

As a general rule: One who accepts Islam, and dies as a Muslim goes to heaven, and one who rejects Islam and dies as a non-Muslims goes to hell.

SOME POINTS:
- A Muslim is someone who obeys the commands of Allah
- A Muslim by name is not necessarily a Muslim
- We are not in a position to judge another person's position in the afterlife. Allah is The Only Judge.
- At any given point... A Muslim may judge that a Non-Muslim will go to Hell, however it could be that Allah changes there hearts, and the Muslim leaves Islam and the Non-Muslim enters it.
- Islam, by definition, is the only acceptable religion to Allah, as He
- The clear message of Islam would reach a person before they could be punished for not being 'Muslim'. Who knows whether the clear message reached that person?
- An outwardly seen non-Muslim might actually have become Muslim without us knowing before death. But, we can only judge by what we observe and know.
- Those who don't receive the message of Islam will be tested after death.
- A kaafir at death will go to Hell as Raziel points out -> (Qur'an 2:161) "Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;" and as I hope he would agree we are supposed to learn not to be of those who reject faith rather than label others.
- We cannot look into the hearts, so we go by what we see, and it is our duty to do so. Only Allah can look into the hearts of people to see the truth. We should stick to our duties...Judging another's destination in the Akhirah is not one of them.
- There are different levels of heaven and hell.

Note: I don't know why Muslims can so confidently choose one of these votes! It is completely inappropriate to do so, Allah is The Judge. Especially in matters such as this, be only specific to those that Allah swt and the Prophet Muhammad (saw) have mentioned. In fact there is very little benefit in mentioning anyone else, or over-generalizing and over-analysing. Just learn the lesson that is supposed to be learnt.

Allahu Alim

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

AbuMubarak made an interesting point about having witnesses, so that person would have a Janaazah if they were witnessed making Shahadah, and so if they weren't witnessed (but made Shahadah) they are non-Muslims destined for Hell. Can anyone clarify with sources on this one?

[Tosh]

you are so right

we should give everyone salat janaza

If only we did our duty as wise and gentle da'ees...maybe we would be giving more salat janaazah for all the extra people coming to Islam by the will of Allah swt. But if we continue to be offensive and have no mercy for our fellow people then how can we ever show them Islam properly in the way that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) taught us to?

[Cartman]

If a Person Dies as a Non-Muslim then they are Certainly going to Jahannam ...

Why cause Allah Tabarakwata'ala says so ...

theres no Ifs or buts here ... (no offence meant) :o

I backed up my statement with Irrefutable evidence from the Quran before and can do so again ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 2
--------------------
Verse 161 : Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

Verse 162 : They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

No Muslim can refute this ... the Kuffar are among the group of people we can say are Certainly going to Jahannam, Unless they revert to Islam in their Lifetimes...

:jkk:


thre is no doubt in my mind that allah will punish the disbelievers. but it is not our place to decided who is going to hell and who is not. For example look at that man who committed suicide and everyone thought he was a mujahideen, and that man who fell on his sword and everyone thought he killed himself and was going to the fire, until the prophet(SAWS) corrected them. You just dont know all the factors so you cant condemn anyone, espcially when your own salvation is not guaranteed

[Raziel]

thre is no doubt in my mind that allah will punish the disbelievers. but it is not our place to decided who is going to hell and who is not. For example look at that man who committed suicide and everyone thought he was a mujahideen, and that man who fell on his sword and everyone thought he killed himself and was going to the fire, until the prophet(SAWS) corrected them. You just dont know all the factors so you cant condemn anyone, espcially when your own salvation is not guaranteed

Allah Ta'ala says the Kaafirs who die in a state of Kufrare Going to Jahannam, no IFs/Butts ...

so far as I know Mother Teresa never Accepted Islam, so you can work out what her fate is ...

if she did then Do post some evidence, and I will stand corrected ...

the Prophet :saw: and the Muslims were told not to Pray for the Kuffar who have died ...

this makes it explicit that those whom we know have died in Disbelief are going to Jahannam ...

:jkk:

[Cartman]

Allah Ta'ala says the Kaafirs who die in a state of Kufrare Going to Jahannam, no IFs/Butts ...

so far as I know Mother Teresa never Accepted Islam, so you can work out what her fate is ...

if she did then Do post some evidence, and I will stand corrected ...

the Prophet :saw: and the Muslims were told not to Pray for the Kuffar who have died ...

this makes it explicit that those whom we know have died in Disbelief are going to Jahannam ...

:jkk:

im not disagreeing with you. but im disagreeing with the fact that he was saying so and so is going to jahannam and that is not right because none of us no our eternal abode after we die, and we dont know everything about a person, and if we guess wrong, it would be devastating for us.

do yall see where im getting at wit this?

[Abu Mus'ab]

I don't see what the point of this useless 'debate' is, if there was ever a non muslim that you could have been in 'doubt' about it would have been abu talib because of his help to rasoolullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, as fady posted elsewhere in his poetry he calls rasoolullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as 'rasoolullah' yet he didn't accept islam and he will be in jahannam.

Go and take a few aqeedah lessons before you just speak things that you have no knowledge about.

[Kareem]

I know for sure the popes are going to jahannam coz they are part of a corrupt and blasphemous institution ever since it's creation by the Roman Empire just so they could hold onto power. That and the Vatican has ever since Islam been trying to suppress conversions to Islam in Europe.

To think otherwise is laughable.

[Tosh]

I don't see what the point of this useless 'debate' is

I know for sure the popes are going to jahannam coz they are part of a corrupt and blasphemous institution ever since it's creation by the Roman Empire just so they could hold onto power. That and the Vatican has ever since Islam been trying to suppress conversions to Islam in Europe.

To think otherwise is laughable.
Well, if you are just condemning the whole 'Vatican' to hell at any given time, that is probably wrong.

Idris Tawfiq anyone? Vatican to Al-Azhar...Alhamduliillah.

[Cartman]

I don't see what the point of this useless 'debate' is, if there was ever a non muslim that you could have been in 'doubt' about it would have been abu talib because of his help to rasoolullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, as fady posted elsewhere in his poetry he calls rasoolullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as 'rasoolullah' yet he didn't accept islam and he will be in jahannam.

Go and take a few aqeedah lessons before you just speak things that you have no knowledge about.


you dont even know the point im trynna get at , do you?

you cant say whos going to hell or not, because you are not rasulullah, your sins havent been forgiven past present and future and allah doesnt give you any inspiration or special knowledge.

so you go and take a few aqeedah lesseons before you speak things that you have no knowledge about

[Abu Mus'ab]

there's no point in trying to convince someone who doesn't know their aqeedah.

:salams

[Cartman]

there's no point in trying to convince someone who doesn't know their aqeedah.

:salams

and there's no ppoint in trying to reach someone who surrounds himself with his own arrogance.

[AbuMubarak]

Abu Musab

you are arrogant
you are arrogant
you are arrogant

this is the best response i can say to you, not that i have any daleel

but you are arrogant

you and that brother Abu Mubarak

and that other abu whats his name?

o yeah

hisham abu

whats with you abu's and arrogance

why cant you be humble and just accept that cartman is correct?


you guys are just too arrogant

[Cartman]

you didnt give any daleel that the sahabah ever used to say so and so was going to hell..so.........

[Nirvana]

Mother Teresa, all the Christian saints and all the dead Popes are in hell and Mohamid Attia and Salah Shahada are in paradise.

Mohamid Attia and Salah Shahada can do things I will not say to flame you to not be banned ****

[Tosh]

Quote from the poll
People who believe that have a serious misunderstanding of Islam

No, people who enjoy declaring it to all people in order to offend have a serious misunderstanding of Islam.

And those who think they know for absolute certain the destination of a person, they also have a misunderstanding of themselves as human beings and therefore as slaves to Allah.

[Raziel]

Well, if you are just condemning the whole 'Vatican' to hell at any given time, that is probably wrong.

Idris Tawfiq anyone? Vatican to Al-Azhar...Alhamduliillah.

Akhi has any Priest/Bishop of the Vatican Reverted to Islam?

if not then they the Christians of the Vatican are in Shirk and will goto Hell, according to Allah Ta'ala unless they repent and return to Islam ...

:jkk:

[Raziel]

you didnt give any daleel that the sahabah ever used to say so and so was going to hell..so.........

According to the Quran, those who dies in a State of Disbelief/Kufr to Allah Subhanahu Wata'ala will be in Jahannam.

this is not debatable ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 2
--------------------
Verse 161 : Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

Verse 162 : They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

nor can we pray for the Kuffar, as they will not be forgiven ...


Al-Quran, Chapter 9 : Verse 84
-------------------------------
"Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion."

I don't know why this debate is going on, as to whether the Christian "Saints" and Mother Teresa is in Paradise or not ...

as far as we know none of them accepted Islam, so their abode is clear.

trying to imply that while they rejected Islam, but somehow find a way to Jannah, is absurd...

:jkk:

[Tosh]

According to the Quran, those who dies in a State of Disbelief/Kufr to Allah Subhanahu Wata'ala will be in Jahannam.

this is not debatable ...

Al-Quran, Chapter 2
--------------------
Verse 161 : Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

Verse 162 : They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

nor can we pray for the Kuffar, [delete:as they will not be forgiven] ...


Al-Quran, Chapter 9 : Verse 84
-------------------------------
"Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion."

I don't know why this debate is going on, as to whether the Christian "Saints" and Mother Teresa is in Paradise or not ...


Stop there and I completely agree.

http://www.idristawfiq.com/3-1bio.html
"Before embracing Islam, Idris was a Roman Catholic priest." He shook hands with the Pope (and accidentally stole his ring I think!)!

It is the priests and scholars who recognise the truth of Islam first. That isn't to say they are the quickest to accept it.

[kasaeed]

I have a question. If a non-muslim does not indulge in shirk, do good deed but do not believe in the Prophet (SAW), will he go to heaven or hell?
(Reason for question : Allah will forgive all sins except Shirk)

[AbuMubarak]

if he heard about the Prophet and denied him, then he has denied Allah also