...Who is worse?

[Griffith]

Al Salam Alaykom,

I am having a debate with my sister on who is worse in the following:

--Someone who does'nt pray at all and does'nt know anything about Islam, but at least respects his/her religion enough to fast during Ramadan or:

--Someone who killed a person, but then repented sincerely to Allah and continues to perform Al Salat, give Zakat, and of course continue to ask repentance from Allah.

In my view someone who does'nt pray at all is worse, since he is making no efforts, even though the killer committed a grave sin, at least he is asking repentance sincerely!!

Well, who is worse (or better?)

[Guardian Hijab]

Al Salam Alaykom,

I am having a debate with my sister on who is worse in the following:

--Someone who does'nt pray at all and does'nt know anything about Islam, but at least respects his/her religion enough to fast during Ramadan or:

--Someone who killed a person, but then repented sincerely to Allah and continues to perform Al Salat, give Zakat, and of course continue to ask repentance from Allah.

In my view someone who does'nt pray at all is worse, since he is making no efforts, even though the killer committed a grave sin, at least he is asking repentance sincerely!!

Well, who is worse (or better?)
Asalamualaikum

But in my opinion, if you murder someone, you must be killed yourself by stoning. Which means you truly have repented because you sought your punishment in this world. If he did not confess, then he truly did not repent.

Like the hadith about the woman who confessed she commited Zina to the Prophet, after she gave birth she was stoned.

God knows best.

Wa'alaikumasalam

[abdusamad]

Asalamualaikum

But in my opinion, if you murder someone, you must be killed yourself by stoning. Which means you truly have repented because you sought your punishment in this world. If he did not confess, then he truly did not repent.

Like the hadith about the woman who confessed she commited Zina to the Prophet, after she gave birth she was stoned.

God knows best.

Wa'alaikumasalam


would depend on where he lives wouldnt it?

If he dont live in an islamic state then who is going to stone it?

if ya say its the muslims in that state duty to do it....then should we stoning people in uk?


i would say the person repenting, because Allah is oft forgiving.

[Griffith]

So he must repent to Allah and confess his crime? Then his repentance will be accepted?

[Guardian Hijab]

would depend on where he lives wouldnt it?

If he dont live in an islamic state then who is going to stone it?

if ya say its the muslims in that state duty to do it....then should we stoning people in uk?


i would say the person repenting, because Allah is oft forgiving.
Asalamualaikum

then what is preventing him from going to a country that pratices Islamic laws to the fullest? Surely if he is britian, he can gain a job, save up money, and fly to Indonesia.

If he truly meant to repent, then he will seek the punishment.

I'm refering to the ways of the Prophet, if thats what happened back then, then it is what must happen now.

You can't do the crime, and just say "sorry", You prove it.

Wa'alaikumasalam

[As-Salafee]

Salaam alaykum wa rehmatullahi wa barakatuh

Question :


A young man is saying that he committed some sins and repented to Allaah, but there is a sin for which his conscience is still troubling him, which is that he committed zina with a virgin. Now he is asking what he should do. He cannot marry her. This matter is causing him psychological pain and a hard life. What do you think?.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

What we think is that if a person repents from any sin, Allaah accepts his repentance, because Allaah has mentioned the major sins (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who invoke not any other ilaah (god) along with Allaah,” – this is shirk – “ nor kill such person as Allaah has forbidden, except for just cause,” – this is murder – “nor commit illegal sexual intercourse” – this is immorality, transgression against Allaah, against other people and against their honour. Then Allaah says:

–– and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;

70. Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds; for those, Allaah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

[al-Furqaan 25:68-70]

A person must repent sincerely, fulfilling all the five well known conditions of repentance, which are regret, giving up the sin, resolving never to go back to it in the future, sincerity, which is the basic requirement, and repenting before the time for repentance is over. If these five conditions are met then this is sincere repentance, by means of which Allaah erases all sins that came before, even zina.

With regard to the woman with whom you committed zina, if she did that willingly, then she will be questioned about that herself. If she was forced, then the one who forced her has to repent to Allaah from that. If he is able to ask her forgiveness, then let him do so, otherwise let him pray a great deal for forgiveness for her, and Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

With regard to the loss of her virginity as the result of this zina, she is going to be faced with a serious problem, because if someone proposes marriage to her on the basis that she is a virgin, he will find out on the wedding night that she is not. If she tells people that she has lost her virginity, then tongues will wag and she will bring shame upon her family. If she keeps quiet about it, then she will be deceiving her future husband. But I hope that this young woman’s repentance will be sincere; if it is sincere then Allaah will give her a way out.

With regard to him saying in the question that he cannot marry her, I do not know why. If they have both repented and he can marry her, that is good. If that is not possible, then Allaah will give her a way out so long as her repentance is sincere, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whosoever fears Allaah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty)”

[al-Talaaq 65:2]

This is general in meaning. And Allaah also says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And He it is Who accepts repentance from His slaves, and forgives sins, and He knows what you do”

[al-Shoora 42:25]



Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen from Liqaa’aat al-Baab il-Maftooh, 3/335-336. (www.islam-qa.com (http://www.islam-qa.com/))


But in my opinion, if you murder someone, you must be killed yourself by stoning. Which means you truly have repented because you sought your punishment in this world. If he did not confess, then he truly did not repent.

This is only under the Islamic State. If there is no Islamic state (land in accordance to Shariah) then the punishment cannot be carried out by muslims.

If it is asked: who is it that should carry out this hadd punishment for zina?

The answer is:

No one should carry out the hadd punishments without the permission of the ruler. If there is no ruler who rules according to sharee’ah then it is not permissible for the ordinary people to carry out the hadd punishments. Whoever does that is sinning, because carrying out the hadd punishments requires examining the matter and requires shar’i knowledge in order to know the conditions of proof.

The ordinary people have no knowledge of such things, and the carrying out of one of the hadd punishments by the ordinary people leads to many evils and the loss of security, whereby people will attack one another and kill one another or chop off one another’s hands on the grounds that they are carrying out hadd punishments.

Al-Qurtubi said:

There is no dispute among the scholars that qisaas (retaliatory punishments) such as execution cannot be carried out except by those in authority who are obliged to carry out the qisaas and carry out hadd punishments etc, because Allaah has addressed the command regarding qisaas to all the Muslims, and it is not possible for all the Muslims to get together to carry out the qisaas, which is why they appointed a leader who may represent them in carrying out the qisaas and hadd punishments.

EDIT: Oh and yea, Number One is worse.

Salaam alaykum

[Muslimah006]

I was reading this some where I'm pretty sure its the Quran, it was one of my let's flip to a random page and reading, anyways, yea if you get caught for doing something bad or you confess you must get stoned or hand cut off or wtever the Shariah punishment says to have yourself cleansed of your sin. If you are not caught or do not confess your fate on the day of judgement in Allah's hands, He may forgive you or not forgive you. And we all know that story about the man who committed 99 murders and was told to leave the land and go somewhere else yet as he was half way between he died and the angels came to take him but they couldn't decide if he were to go to jannah or naar but Allah moved the earth so he was closer to jannah. Allah's forgiveness is infinite so if someone were to repent and pray and follow islam better then what actions they committed ( killed someone) that no one knows of except they and their Lord, is only between they and their Lord. Nabi Musa(as) killed someone but he was forgiven b/c he repented, we cannot limit Allah's power.

Plus if you don't pray that sucks. InshAllah everyone should at least pray, do all the crap you want but honestly pray b/c that's what you'll be asked about first and that has got to be in check first.


Asalamualaikum

But in my opinion, if you murder someone, you must be killed yourself by stoning. Which means you truly have repented because you sought your punishment in this world. If he did not confess, then he truly did not repent.

Like the hadith about the woman who confessed she commited Zina to the Prophet, after she gave birth she was stoned.

God knows best.

Wa'alaikumasalam

[MalikOne™]

[QUOTE=Griffith]
--Someone who killed a person, QUOTE]

Who says tha reason for the killing was unlawful, make it a bit clearer

[Ronald1]

Al Salam Alaykom,

I am having a debate with my sister on who is worse in the following:

--Someone who does'nt pray at all and does'nt know anything about Islam, but at least respects his/her religion enough to fast during Ramadan or:

--Someone who killed a person, but then repented sincerely to Allah and continues to perform Al Salat, give Zakat, and of course continue to ask repentance from Allah.

In my view someone who does'nt pray at all is worse, since he is making no efforts, even though the killer committed a grave sin, at least he is asking repentance sincerely!!

Well, who is worse (or better?)


I'm what most on this forum would call a Christian Griffith, but I haven't been in a church
for years, so maybe I shouldn't make a comment at all, but anyway, I am. You can't
repent without praying, no matter what your belief is. You might feel sorry, if you're an
athiest, but religious repentance would without a doubt require prayer. As you know,
there are quite a number of people who go to churches and mosques or whatever, just
by force of habit. They're just wasting their time. What's the point. I pray sometimes,
generally when I'm in a bit of a pickle, but at the same time I ask for forgiveness, and
hope that God takes a kindly view to my thoughtlessness, in fact I'm sure He does.
The answer to your question, although it comes from an unusual source, is, the one
who doesn't pray hasn't a hope.

[Griffith]

Salam,

Sorry MalikOne, should've made it clearer, I know. Ok, thanks for the answers...

Damn, that reminds me, when I was a young teenager (12-15 years old) I was'nt really religious and used to steal stuff now and then. Of course I have given back the most I could to the people I stole, and repented to Allah numerous times. But I did'nt confess, and I could'nt confess, and I still would'nt be able to confess. However...Back in the days, in Islamic states, what was the minimum age for cutting the hands?

[in_exile]

Asalamualaikum

But in my opinion, if you murder someone, you must be killed yourself by stoning. Which means you truly have repented because you sought your punishment in this world. If he did not confess, then he truly did not repent.

Like the hadith about the woman who confessed she commited Zina to the Prophet, after she gave birth she was stoned.

God knows best.

Wa'alaikumasalam

the punishment for killing is not stoning :rolleyes: it is either they are killed or the family accepts blood money or that the family forgives them. this is the case for a muslim killing another muslim i dont know the punishment for killing a non-muslim if someone can post it.

[tweety]

punishment for killing is decapitation...with a big sharp blade...not as messy as you may think though

[Mujaheedah]

punishment for murder is either the eye for an eye punishment, which in the case of murder would be death, or blood money could be given to the relatives this is stated in the quran. i think number one is worse

[tweety]

punishment for murder is either the eye for an eye punishment, which in the case of murder would be death, or blood money could be given to the relatives this is stated in the quran. i think number one is worse
ditto

[.: Anna :.]

number one is worse

as for this issue of tawba and hadd punishments I am not sure :scratch:

Yes as you gave the example of that zina lady who came and asked so many times 4 the hadd punishment 2 b carried out, but then after wen Rasoolallah :saw: prayed over her body he said like that her level of tawba would hav been enough for the whole of medina (something like that?) which makes me think she is more than the normal level of tawba like her tawba was at an excellent level... but most ppl will not b at that high level yet still allah swt could accept it IF it is sincere, which is something only he knows.

we are told not 2 expose our sins and to hide them, and I think since there is no hadd punishments in this countrys prob best 2 hide it and make as much tawba as you can :S with all the 3 necessary stages of tawba (past pres n future)

allahu alam i dnno!!

[Griffith]

Salam,

Sorry MalikOne, should've made it clearer, I know. Ok, thanks for the answers...

Damn, that reminds me, when I was a young teenager (12-15 years old) I was'nt really religious and used to steal stuff now and then. Of course I have given back the most I could to the people I stole, and repented to Allah numerous times. But I did'nt confess, and I could'nt confess, and I still would'nt be able to confess. However...Back in the days, in Islamic states, what was the minimum age for cutting the hands?

^^Someone can reply to this?

[Ayah]

^^Someone can reply to this?

I'm assuming, wallahu a3lam, that any punishment carried out in Islam would be on one who's reached the age of puberty, no younger. Why? Because Allah holds ppl accountable (ie: rewards or punishes w/hasanaat or say'yi'aat) after puberty.

Also, regarding your the original question, I dunno if it should really matter to us who's worse. :scratch: Allah is the One who's going to judge everyone in the end, not us. We should just seek forgiveness for our sins.

~Ayah

[TinyTerror]

Assalamualaikum Also, regarding your the original question, I dunno if it should really matter to us who's worse. :scratch: Allah is the One who's going to judge everyone in the end, not us. We should just seek forgiveness for our sins.

~Ayah
:up:

It is not even possible for us to judge the actions of individuals to say who is worse as only Allah is the judge. Only he is all-seeing and knows the true intentions of a person.

But say the situations were aimed at ourselves then i suppose we may question our own intentions but rather than trying to say what's worse we should strive to remember the teachings of islam.

Basically we should remember that Allah is most merciful so however big the sin we should still believe in his mercy as otherwise we contradict the name Ar-Raheem (Most merciful) thus we can then TRULY repent.

Also we must remember that we should try not to diffrentiate between perceived minor/major sins as by committing a 'minor' sin every day we can accumulate so much it is equal to a major one like kindling a fire with tiny twigs until it becomes a blazing fire!

Allah knows best :)

Wa Alaikumassalam

[Su'ad]

Al Salam Alaykom,

I am having a debate with my sister on who is worse in the following:

--Someone who does'nt pray at all and does'nt know anything about Islam, but at least respects his/her religion enough to fast during Ramadan or:

--Someone who killed a person, but then repented sincerely to Allah and continues to perform Al Salat, give Zakat, and of course continue to ask repentance from Allah.

In my view someone who does'nt pray at all is worse, since he is making no efforts, even though the killer committed a grave sin, at least he is asking repentance sincerely!!

Well, who is worse (or better?)

I cannot and will not judge someone else, only allah (swt) can do that, and i leave all judgement to Him.

[newnida]

Salaams 2 all

When I read this thread I was reminded of a discussion (out of the classroom) I once had with my professor,

He was an atheist.

He said isn’t that funny in Islam that u keep committing crime & ask 4 forgiveness…

I answered that u got it all wrong…

1stly when do u repent. : When in ur heart u know that u’ve done something wrong…& u repent by making a promise not 2 commit the same mistake/sin/ crime again.

Then with a sincere heart u pray 2 Allah for forgiveness.

Hence the point was u should not take advantage of this aspect of Islam..

I know after all we r humans. it is possible 2 commit the same mistake again …..But

We should be careful, as breaking of a promise is a sin in itself

We should try 2 improve ourselves…& ask 4 Allah’s guidance …forgiveness. At every given point of time.

& May Allah forgive our sins that r committed knowingly or unknowingly.

[AbuSadiq]

the punishment for killing is not stoning :rolleyes: it is either they are killed or the family accepts blood money or that the family forgives them. this is the case for a muslim killing another muslim i dont know the punishment for killing a non-muslim if someone can post it.

There are differences in carrying out the punishment. It is therefore not a flat law. Meaning, for he that killed someone DELIBERATELY, the hadd, as it is stated in the Holy Qur'an, is Qisas - he would be killed straight away, no alternative here.

However, for a man who MISTAKENLY killed a soul. The Sharee'ah does not say he should be killed, right away. There has to be careful examination of the circumstances that led to the killing. For instance, was the man killed through road accident;at what speed was the driver moving, is he entitled to move at such a speed and in that particular way etc?

If it is established that it is a mere accident, then there are 3 options for kaffarah (no Qisas here); to pay the diyyah (a stated amount to the victim's relatives) or to free a believing slave, or in the absence of the two, one should fast for two consequetive months.

These are the different sharee'ah and classifications on what constitute killing.

Wallaahu A'lam

[AbuSadiq]

punishment for murder is either the eye for an eye punishment, which in the case of murder would be death, or blood money could be given to the relatives this is stated in the quran.

In the case of deliberate killing, the sharee'ah does not makes provision for any option for the culprit, at all. He has to be killied, if found guilty, right away.

However, the option for blood money, freeing a slave or fasting goes to he that killed mistakenly.

Wallaahu A'lam

[Griffith]

Salam Alaykom,

I know an Atheist who told me that Islam can't be a true religion, because it says that if you kill someone mistakenly, you have to free a slave (or pay blood money or fast 2 consecutive months)

He told me why does the Qu'ran mention freeing a slave? If the Qu'ran is indeed perfect then it must apply to every era of humanity, and that slaves, today, are a thing of the past, except in "retarded" countries.

I told him that it does'nt just tell you to free a slave, but also there is 2 other alternatives. He won't listen to me, though.

What should I reply to him?

[AbuSadiq]

The fact that slaves are now old-fashioned, as you rightly told him, does not mean that the law itself is old-fashioned. It is in consonance with the changes of the generations, till eternity, hence the other two options.

However, the fact that he refused to agree with you is natural and it should be expected. Without due guidance from the Almighty Allah he wouldn't see the wisdom behind the three options provided, at all. So make your case and leave the rest to Allah, who guides whomever He wishes, at the time He wished and all!

[TinyTerror]

Assalamualaikum

However, the fact that he refused to agree with you is natural and it should be expected. Without due guidance from the Almighty Allah he wouldn't see the wisdom behind the three options provided, at all. So make your case and leave the rest to Allah, who guides whomever He wishes, at the time He wished and all!

:up:

Wa Alaikumassalam