Question regarding women leading prayer

[abd-al-haqq]

As Salaam Aleikum, brothers & sisters, may God bless you all, insh Allah.

Please can someone help me to understand this matter. I'm not trying to be deliberately controversial. I just want to understand the situation more clearly.

I understand that Mohammad, (PBUH), appointed a lady called Umm Waraqa to lead the prayer at the second mosque ever to be established in Medina.

I'm a bit confused about this becuase all four of the Sunni schools of fiqh, say that a woman leading men in salaat is a definate no. And one school goes even further than that by saying that a woman can't even lead the prayers of an all female group.

I can see the logic in not having men praying behind women, in order to protect their modesty, and also to keep the mens' minds on Allah (SWA) and away from more earthly matters. It also occurred to me that during the Medina period, the community was at war, so Umm Waraqa could perhaps have been leading an all female congregation.

Any clarification and knowledge that anyone could pass onto me regarding this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[Al-Nasser]

Umm Waraqa didn't lead the prayer in the mosque but in her own house...and she was leadin her own houshold in the prayer....and this household was consisting of a little boy, an elder and a slave girl...

also it is important to mention that Umm Warraqa (ra) was very exceptional companion....maybe she was the only companion to be granted the nickname "martyr" before her death (she was martyred many years after the death of the prophet :saw: )......so what we have here is a very pious woman leading a prayer in a house where there is no fitnah will be caused because of her leading the prayer.

brother, if you really want to see the guidance in regard to this matter look WHO endrose the women led prayers
1- MWU.....a website which has dedicated section to erotic stories
2- Asra Nomani....a woman who BRAG about her pre martial sexual relation which resulted a baby, and even more she call for the muslim women "right" of pre martial sex. and personally led a prayer this year.
3- Amina Wadud.......check for her controversary speech in Malaysia last year, and you will know that she is just not right in the mind, she even wonder"why we call Allah, "he"?" and she believe that it is a sort of sexism and so she call Allah with "she"!!.....i wonder if she will call the "devil" also "she" or what

[abd-al-haqq]

Thankyou very much for your enlightening reply.

In my opinion using either of the pronouns, - he or she, to refer to God, is to use slightly misleading language. Becuase, as I'm sure you'll agree, Allah is beyond the concept of gender. When speaking, I try to avoid using the pronouns and just simply say Allah.

I recall that the Qur'an uses the male pronoun هو 'huwa' on occasions. But there again, I also recall that, in Arabic , the plural pronouns, (for we and you) are only ever used when refering to an all female goup, so by extension, I'd imagine, when refering to something that is beyond gender, using the male pronoun would be the only option in a language that doesn't have a neuter pronoun.

English has a neuter pronoun, (it). But to refer to somebody as an 'it' is to insult that person, so that would hardly be an appropriate thing to refer to God as 'it'.

[AbuMubarak]

keep studying Akhi

[.: Anna :.]

Thankyou very much for your enlightening reply.

In my opinion using either of the pronouns, - he or she, to refer to God, is to use slightly misleading language. Becuase, as I'm sure you'll agree, Allah is beyond the concept of gender. When speaking, I try to avoid using the pronouns and just simply say Allah.

I recall that the Qur'an uses the male pronoun هو 'huwa' on occasions. But there again, I also recall that, in Arabic , the plural pronouns, (for we and you) are only ever used when refering to an all female goup, so by extension, I'd imagine, when refering to something that is beyond gender, using the male pronoun would be the only option in a language that doesn't have a neuter pronoun.

English has a neuter pronoun, (it). But to refer to somebody as an 'it' is to insult that person, so that would hardly be an appropriate thing to refer to God as 'it'.

Assalaamu alaykum brother.

I am not sure what you are trying to say about Arabic pronouns here :scratch:

the plural pronoun Nahnu (we)is used for either males, females or a mixed group
the plural pronoun Hum (they)is used for either males or a mixed group
the plural pronoun Hunna (they) is used only for females.

As for Allaah... in Arabic this is a masculine word anyway so it makes sense to use the pronoun Huwa. For example "Baab" is masculine, but it does not mean that the door is male in the same sense that a man is male.
For that reason it will be ridiculous for someone to try to call Allah as "hiya" because it is completely wrong according to Arabic grammar.

I agree with u in that Allaah is beyond gender because Allah is the one who does not beget anything, and indeed that is below him so we could not say that he is a man in that way. Also he is not like any of his creation, but the use of the word Huwa or he I dnt thnk really causes ne problems in this though.

[.: Anna :.]

Also as for Umm Waraqah the others in her household did not know any Qur'an so she was the only one suitable to lead the prayer as others were not able. Had a man of her household been able to lead the prayer maybe Rasoolallah :saw: would not hav told her to do it

[abdusamad]

Also as for Umm Waraqah the others in her household did not know any Qur'an so she was the only one suitable to lead the prayer as others were not able. Had a man of her household been able to lead the prayer maybe Rasoolallah :saw: would not hav told her to do it


yes and Allahu Alim :D

[Muslimah56]

, I'd imagine, when refering to something that is beyond gender, using the male pronoun would be the only option in a language that doesn't have a neuter pronoun.

English has a neuter pronoun, (it). But to refer to somebody as an 'it' is to insult that person, so that would hardly be an appropriate thing to refer to God as 'it'.

Bismillah
as salam alykom
Anna I think if u omit the part of the female plural pronouns this explanation would be Mash a Allah perferct.

The whole issue is that the Arabic language does not have a neutre pronoun. Anna may be to you using He in English does not pose a problem unlike for many non Muslims who pick on this part in particular.
Jazakum Allah khairan abd - al- haqq for this explanation

[AbuSadiq]

Also as for Umm Waraqah the others in her household did not know any Qur'an so she was the only one suitable to lead the prayer as others were not able. Had a man of her household been able to lead the prayer maybe Rasoolallah :saw: would not hav told her to do it

This is a very CORRECT and intresting answer, insha'Allah. In fact, Ummu Waraqah requested the Prophet to appoint her as the Imam in her house, BUT a male was sent to be the Mu'azzin. So she only lead the prayer with her womenfolk in attendance within her household, not in the Mosque, as Brother Nasser said above.

Wallallaahu A'lam

[AbuMubarak]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MzkNgMTKkP8

[neelu]

The other reason why we cannot refer to Allah (swt) as 'it' is because 'it' refers to something which is not alive or sentient.

[|zdihaar]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MzkNgMTKkP8

She said that death would have been easier than to have continued to live (regarding the controversy and death threats etc).

Oh how little she must know about death and her wrongful actions.

[far-hana]

Thankyou very much for your enlightening reply.

In my opinion using either of the pronouns, - he or she, to refer to God, is to use slightly misleading language. Becuase, as I'm sure you'll agree, Allah is beyond the concept of gender. When speaking, I try to avoid using the pronouns and just simply say Allah.

An abstract I got from a website on why the Quran use "WE" and "HE" in Quran when referring to God (Allah)..hope its beneficial..

The term "We" in the Bible and in the Quran is the royal "We" - as an example when the king says, "We decree the following declaration, etc." or, "We are not amused." It does not indicate plural; rather it displays the highest position in the language. English, Persian, Hebrew, Arabic and many languages provide for the usage of "We" for the royal figure. It is helpful to note the same dignity is given to the person being spoken to in English. We say to someone, "You ARE my friend." Yet the person is only one person standing there. Why did we say "ARE" instead of "IS"? The noun "you" is singular and should therefore be associated with a singular verb for the state of being, yet we say, "are." The same is true for the speaker when referring to himself or herself. We say, "I am" and this is also in the royal plural, instead of saying, "I is."

When Allah uses the term "HE" in Quran it is similar to the above answer. The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status. It would be totally inappropriate to use the word "it" and would not convey the proper understanding of Allah being who Allah is; Alive, Compassionate, Forgiving, Patient, Loving, etc. It is not correct to associate the word "He" with gender, as this would be comparing Allah to the creation, something totally against the teaching of Quran.