View Full Version : Importance of Following Madhahib
Hamoudeh
07-09-05, 03:12 AM
Assalamu Alaikum
Here is a brief collection of articles related to the importance of following Madhahib.
Why Muslims Follow Madhabs - Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller (http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000083.aspx)
What is a Madhhab? - Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller (http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/fiqh/what_is_madhhab.html)
Unity Through Schools of Thoughts - Shaykh Abdal Hakim Murad (http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000079.aspx)
Understanding the Four Madhhabs - Shaykh Abdal-Hakim Murad (http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000164.aspx)
Understanding the Four Madhhabs Revised - Shaykh Abdal-Hakim Murad & Sidi Azhar Usman (http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/newmadhh.htm)
Why does one have to follow a Madhhab? - Shaykh Muhammad Sa'id Ramadan al-Bouti (http://www.sunnah.org/fiqh/usul/buti_vs_salafi.htm)
Fatwa on Following One of the Four Accepted Madhhabs - Shaykh Murabtal Haaj (http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Articles/AR00000165.aspx)
The 4 Schools of Thought in Islam - Mufti Taqi Uthmani (http://victoryscent.co.uk/4madhabs_1.htm)
Following One Particular Imam - Mufti Taqi Uthmani (http://victoryscent.co.uk/4madhabs_2.htm)
Ma`salam
AbuMubarak
07-09-05, 03:40 AM
these debates will continue until the mahdi comes
i wonder what madh'hab he will be practicing
Hamoudeh
07-09-05, 03:28 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
As debates they are rather modern phenomena, one may debate about it but one may also observe the stand of the Ahl al-Sunna regarding it. As for the Mahdi, I suspect he will be a Mujaddid and a Mujtahid and not in need of a Madhhab. If we mention the Mahdi, the question may rather be who will follow him, the Muqallideen of the Madhhahib al-Arba or others?
Ma`salam
Salman Al-Farsi
07-09-05, 03:51 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
As debates they are rather modern phenomena, one may debate about it but one may also observe the stand of the Ahl al-Sunna regarding it. As for the Mahdi, I suspect he will be a Mujaddid and a Mujtahid and not in need of a Madhhab. If we mention the Mahdi, the question may rather be who will follow him, the Muqallideen of the Madhhahib al-Arba or others?
Ma`salam
Waalkum as salaam
Good point Akhee.
Al-Irhaab
07-09-05, 05:09 PM
these debates will continue until the mahdi comes
i wonder what madh'hab he will be practicing
he will be hanafi :D
Walykum salam
SubhanAllah, clearly in front of us, we are seeing the division in our religion. Madhab's are there to make things understandable to us, a scholar has no madhab, you know why, becuase he knows all the different madhab's views and he can pick and chose from different madhabs cos he knows what he is doing. But a common man doesn't have this advantage, so they stick to madhabs so that they dont mix things up. All school of thoughts are derived from the sunnah. So Isa (as) and Al-Mahdi will be muslims, following the sunnah of Mohamed (saw) our prophet.
Walykum salam.
Al-Irhaab
07-09-05, 06:26 PM
which scholar knows all four madhabs? the majority of the ulema are only experts in some madhab... some ulema will know the fiqh in detail of the other madhabs... maybe 1 in a million will know the usul of other madhaib in detail and none today have made their own unique usul...
what division... why is it division to be hanafi shafi maliki or hanbali... is like saying if u are taught in kings college u are automatically divided from someone studying in queen marys?
Hamoudeh
07-09-05, 06:29 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
It is not so that a scholar does not have a Madhhab, the overwhelming majority of Sunni `Ulema are Muqallideen in one of the 4 Madhahib. Only the absolute Mujtahid does not make Taqleed, but even the most prominent scholars have often implemented the methodology of a Madhab simply because they concluded such to be the wisest way. As for picking and choosing, a Madhhab is based on methodology and mixing may contradict the consistency thereof.
which scholar knows all four madhabs? the majority of the ulema are only experts in some madhab... some ulema will know the fiqh in detail of the other madhabs... maybe 1 in a million will know the usul of other madhaib in detail and none today have made their own unique usul...
what division... why is it division to be hanafi shafi maliki or hanbali... is like saying if u are taught in kings college u are automatically divided from someone studying in queen marys?
Asalamu alykum
I understand where you are coming from, im limited in knowledge but i know enough, not to call myself by the madhab i follow, for each madhab is derived from the sunnah and sunnah is part of the name muslim, submitting to Allah by following what his prophet (saw) brought us. I was just objecting to you saying Al-mahdi will be following a specific madhab, at end of the day one has to follow what the majority of the scholar agree upon. For example lets say three madhabs gree upon a matter, and the other madhab disagrees which one will you follow, I myself will follow the majority. Brother please don't take this as me and you thing, this is my understanding, you disagree alhumdulilah.
Walykum salam.
Hamoudeh
07-09-05, 07:53 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
I think the brother was just joking, the big grin would indicate that.
I understand where you are coming from, im limited in knowledge but i know enough, not to call myself by the madhab i follow, for each madhab is derived from the sunnah and sunnah is part of the name muslim, submitting to Allah by following what his prophet (saw) brought us.
How exactly do you know enough to not call yourself by the name of the Madhhab you follow? I am not saying that you have to, but it appears you are saying that it's basic knowledge that such is an impermissible act.
For example lets say three madhabs gree upon a matter, and the other madhab disagrees which one will you follow, I myself will follow the majority.
For what reason? It is important to realize that one position does not mean the other position is incorrect, it is a matter of methodology. Moreover, taking this approach means one is constantly mixing which opposes the consistency of the methodology from which the stand is concluded. This may lead to the event that you follow an opinion which in fact is disagreed upon by all 4 Madhahib. In addition, what do you do when there is no clear majority? Moreover, there are more opinions within each Madhhab, how do you come to decide what exactly is the majority even if there factually is one? And have you also considered the size of each Madhhab? If you take the majority as a factual given, do you then also consider that the Hanafi Madhhab is the largest one?
It is not as simple as it looks, this stand of taking the majority view amongst the Madhahib.
Ma`salam
Assalamu Alaikum
I think the brother was just joking, the big grin would indicate that.
How exactly do you know enough to not call yourself by the name of the Madhhab you follow? I am not saying that you have to, but it appears you are saying that it's basic knowledge that such is an impermissible act.
For what reason? It is important to realize that one position does not mean the other position is incorrect, it is a matter of methodology. Moreover, taking this approach means one is constantly mixing which opposes the consistency of the methodology from which the stand is concluded. This may lead to the event that you follow an opinion which in fact is disagreed upon by all 4 Madhahib. In addition, what do you do when there is no clear majority? Moreover, there are more opinions within each Madhhab, how do you come to decide what exactly is the majority even if there factually is one? And have you also considered the size of each Madhhab? If you take the majority as a factual given, do you then also consider that the Hanafi Madhhab is the largest one?
It is not as simple as it looks, this stand of taking the majority view amongst the Madhahib.
Ma`salam
Yes to the red statement, why, becuase from a young age i was taught i was a muslims, never heard people calling themselves hanafi and other righteous scholars names, this is my point, i love these righteous scholars, who have done something which only Allah can reward but i object to people saying that since that i take the understanding of specific madhab, i must call myself by that name, this will lead to people thinking that other madhab's are completely wrong which leads to division which lead to the anger of Allah being upon us. If someone comes to you today and says what is your understanding on this matter of islam, i will tell him hanafi (this is an example) school of thought says this and this and i agree. End of story, no need to say im hanafi muslim or whatever else. Today many of us, don't think this will cause division but in the long run, every generation will brought up with "This madhab's is right" and the children will have this mind set. Lastly may Allah forgive me if i have said something wrong and if i have hurt anyone by my words i ask forgiveness for that . If i continue with this debate, im sure i will say things which might be wrong because i'm not a scholar, and its haraam to speak about Allah's religion without clear knowledge, this will be my last post on this topic unless foced to answer.
Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.(6:159)
This is what i fear will eventually happen.
Walykum salam
Hamoudeh
07-09-05, 08:47 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
So if I say that I am Hanafi, then I am committing an act that is Haram? Please show me any Hanafi `Ulema that have held this opinion or any other `Ulema among the 4 Madhahib.
this will lead to people thinking that other madhab's are completely wrong
If that is so, then the blame is upon those who think it and not calling oneself such a name itself; that is because calling oneself a Hanafi means that one follows the Hanafi Madhhab in Fiqh, and by doing so he accepts the other 3 Madhahib as the Hanafiyya deems the other 3 acceptable, as do the other 3 amongst themselves and in regard to the Hanafiyya.
Today many of us, don't think this will cause division but in the long run, every generation will brought up with "This madhab's is right" and the children will have this mind set.
The Madhahib didn't come yesterday into being, if you are correct then how is it possible that they have not caused the problems you speak of in centuries yet they will cause them tomorrow? The reality is that it is exactly the lack of following Madhahib that created a number of groups which cause division to this day. A basic matter amongst the Madhahib is that one's own position is correct with the possibility of being incorrect, while another's position is incorrect with the possibility of being correct. Because of this, Madhahib have formed an entity and brought unity.
If i continue with this debate, im sure i will say things which might be wrong because i'm not a scholar, and its haraam to speak about Allah's religion without clear knowledge, this will be my last post on this topic unless foced to answer.
You also did not reply to the second part of my post. I understand this, and perhaps instead of either leaving this thread or replying to it it may be wise to read the links on my first post and form a better understanding of the Madhahib. Particularly Shaykh Murad's "Understanding the 4 Madhhabs" and "Unity through schools of thought" are very, very recommendable. They may clear up many questions and fears.
Ma`salam
Assalamu Alaikum
So if I say that I am Hanafi, then I am committing an act that is Haram? Please show me any Hanafi `Ulema that have held this opinion or any other `Ulema among the 4 Madhahib.
If that is so, then the blame is upon those who think it and not calling oneself such a name itself; that is because calling oneself a Hanafi means that one follows the Hanafi Madhhab in Fiqh, and by doing so he accepts the other 3 Madhahib as the Hanafiyya deems the other 3 acceptable, as do the other 3 amongst themselves and in regard to the Hanafiyya.
The Madhahib didn't come yesterday into being, if you are correct then how is it possible that they have not caused the problems you speak of in centuries yet they will cause them tomorrow? The reality is that it is exactly the lack of following Madhahib that created a number of groups which cause division to this day. A basic matter amongst the Madhahib is that one's own position is correct with the possibility of being incorrect, while another's position is incorrect with the possibility of being correct. Because of this, Madhahib have formed an entity and brought unity.
You also did not reply to the second part of my post. I understand this, and perhaps instead of either leaving this thread or replying to it it may be wise to read the links on my first post and form a better understanding of the Madhahib. Particularly Shaykh Murad's "Understanding the 4 Madhhabs" and "Unity through schools of thought" are very, very recommendable. They may clear up many questions and fears.
Ma`salam
Asalamu alykum
JazakaAllah khair akhi for the advice, inshaAllah i will read them all. But this won't change my view that regardless of whatever madhab one follows, he should call himself a MUSLIM and if someone asks him, what is your understanding on this matter then you say this scholar had this view on this matter and i agree with him and this is called (your madhab) school of thought and this is how unity was achieved by never forgetting that the word MUSLIM does include those who follow the sunnah, the sunnah here is being explained to us by madhabs which is great, so the need to call yourself for example hanafi muslim doen't arise.
As for the second part of your post, i didn't reply becuase i explained before i will follow the majority, i'm not talking about the number of people taking a particular madhab but the majority of agreement on a matter by madhabs. If they all differ, i will decide which one to me seems right. InshaAllah i will take time to read the links you provided and inshaAllah Allah will give me a better understanding.
Walykum salam
AbuMubarak
07-09-05, 09:55 PM
mixing and choosing different aspects of the sunnah will become confusing?
so much so that a muslims MUST follow a madh'hab?
surely there is daleel in the sunnah to support such statements
after 27 yrs of islam, i have yet to hear one
what division... why is it division to be hanafi shafi maliki or hanbali... is like saying if u are taught in kings college u are automatically divided from someone studying in queen marys?
lol, that was funny bro... i agree :D
Allah - the Most High - says: “then ask those who possess the Message (Ahl adh-Dhikr) if you do not know.” (Soorah 21:7 and 16:43)
Allâh - the Most High - says: “And do not say, concerning that which your tongues falsely put forward, ‘This is lawful and this is forbidden,’ so as to invent lies against Allâh. Indeed, those who invent lies against Allâh will never prosper.”
Allah - the Most High - says: “Say: This is my path. I call to Allâh upon sure knowledge.” [
the Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam said: “Indeed, the Scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets and indeed the Prophets do not leave behind them the dînâr or the dirham as inheritance, they leave only knowledge behind as inheritance. So whosoever acquires it, acquires a huge fortune.”
I would like to ask those who object to following a Madhab how they interpret the first verse quoted above?
Is it not so Sidi Abu Mubarak that you ask a sheikh of your choice when you do not know an answer - thereby effectively you make taqlid upon his Madhab?I have said on many occasion that those who talk about not following the four sunni madhahib [but rather following qur'an and sunnah] are only fooling themselves because they are themselves guilty of following a madhab of a so-called "salafi" shaykh - someone whose madhab has neither stood the test of time nor gone through the rigourous scrutiny of the thousands of Ulema that the four sunni madhahib have withstood over the centuries! Many such madhahib popped up and died out in the history of our Ummah - time will tell how long the multiple madhabs of the self declared mujtahids amongst the "Salafiyya" will last. Suit yourselves - if you think swapping a go-cart for a Mercedes is a wise move then feel free to choose it as your means of transport. :)
Niqaabi
07-09-05, 10:55 PM
Faqir are you obsessed with the word salafi? its in nearly all your own written posts :S.
Why cant you follow a madhab, but not call yourself by the name given to it?
The divison starts there, when you start calling yourself by that shcolar, "im a hanafi, so this act is permissable for me, your a hanbali, thats why you pray like that" :rolleyes:
Faqir are you obsessed with the word salafi? its in nearly all your own written posts :S.
Why cant you follow a madhab, but not call yourself by the name given to it?
The divison starts there, when you start calling yourself by that shcolar, "im a hanafi, so this act is permissable for me, your a hanbali, thats why you pray like that" :rolleyes:
If I was obsessed with "salafi" I would not post articles in praise of those who call themselves "salafee".
Also, what kind of unity would you like to see? Unity of fiqh rulings? Can you tell me then why even amongst the "salafis" there is so much difference of opinion on so many issues?
Excellent quote I came across:
There is no disagreement between the seventy-three sects over "the necessity is only of being a Muslim and following the commandments of God and His Messenger" (saws). Seventy-two of those sects are in the Fire. The Khawarij had plenty of similar words of truth spoken in the pursuit of misguidance. They misconstrued the Qur'an so as to part ways with the Jama`a. The wise should not be bitten from the same hole twice.
Salman Al-Farsi
07-09-05, 11:43 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
It is not so that a scholar does not have a Madhhab, the overwhelming majority of Sunni `Ulema are Muqallideen in one of the 4 Madhahib. Only the absolute Mujtahid does not make Taqleed, but even the most prominent scholars have often implemented the methodology of a Madhab simply because they concluded such to be the wisest way. As for picking and choosing, a Madhhab is based on methodology and mixing may contradict the consistency thereof.
Wa Alaykum As salaam
The very last point :up:
Hamoudeh
08-09-05, 02:37 AM
Assalamu Alaikum
mixing and choosing different aspects of the sunnah will become confusing?
so much so that a muslims MUST follow a madh'hab?
surely there is daleel in the sunnah to support such statements
after 27 yrs of islam, i have yet to hear one
A brief reply to your points;
1) Mixing can be a negative factor in methodological consistency.
2) The necessary status of following a Madhhab explained in Shaykh Murabit al-Haaj's Fatwa that I have linked.
3) There is plenty of Daleel, and there are several sources to be considered in Fiqh. You will find alot in the given links.
4) How many of those years have been spent in terms of scholarship?
The divison starts there, when you start calling yourself by that shcolar, "im a hanafi, so this act is permissable for me, your a hanbali, thats why you pray like that"
I have never experienced any division due to different rulings within Madhahib or identifying oneself as a follower of such. If the division starts with this, how so then is this division not noticed after centuries have passed? Those who understand their Madhahib properly will experience the differences as a mercy, and not as a cause for division. Rather it is overwhelmingly noticed amongst those that call to following anything other than the Madhahib, often between themselves.
JazakaAllah khair akhi for the advice, inshaAllah i will read them all. But this won't change my view that regardless of whatever madhab one follows, he should call himself a MUSLIM and if someone asks him, what is your understanding on this matter then you say this scholar had this view on this matter and i agree with him and this is called (your madhab) school of thought and this is how unity was achieved by never forgetting that the word MUSLIM does include those who follow the sunnah, the sunnah here is being explained to us by madhabs which is great, so the need to call yourself for example hanafi muslim doen't arise.
If one asks you what you are, or what your religion is you will not find another answer amongst the Muqaliddeen than Muslim. If one would ask you what kind, the Muqallid would say Sunni. Then, after that comes the question of Madhhab in Fiqh and as such one can say he is a Hanafi or Maliki etc. I don't think there is any controversy over this, exactly because one only identifies himself within the context of the Ahl al-Sunnah, which is within the context of Islam.
As for the second part of your post, i didn't reply becuase i explained before i will follow the majority, i'm not talking about the number of people taking a particular madhab but the majority of agreement on a matter by madhabs. If they all differ, i will decide which one to me seems right. InshaAllah i will take time to read the links you provided and inshaAllah Allah will give me a better understanding.
You're explanation was the basis of my questions, and now you merely adress one of them which is about the number of people. However what is a Madhhab? Is it not a way, a methodology that it's people implement and derrive conclusions from? They do not all come the same conclusion on all subjects even within the same Madhhab, take the issue of Sadl in the Maliki Madhhab for example or many other issues. I think you're alternative is really the response, namely to do what seems right. But we are not scholars, how does anything of such detail seem something to us when we do not even have access let alone understanding of all the sources or can explore the reasoning of those who came to conclusions? In the end it becomes a matter of the nafs, and that is the main reason why it is necessary for a non-Mujtahid of a certain degree to be a Muqallid on a certain degree. And this Taqleed requires consistency, something a Muqallid is not always in the position to verify.
Insha'allah you will take the time and read the links, this is my sincere advice.
Ma`salam
AbuMubarak
08-09-05, 06:17 AM
I would like to ask those who object to following a Madhab how they interpret the first verse quoted above?
Is it not so Sidi Abu Mubarak that you ask a sheikh of your choice when you do not know an answer - thereby effectively you make taqlid upon his Madhab?I have said on many occasion that those who talk about not following the four sunni madhahib [but rather following qur'an and sunnah] are only fooling themselves because they are themselves guilty of following a madhab of a so-called "salafi" shaykh - someone whose madhab has neither stood the test of time nor gone through the rigourous scrutiny of the thousands of Ulema that the four sunni madhahib have withstood over the centuries! Many such madhahib popped up and died out in the history of our Ummah - time will tell how long the multiple madhabs of the self declared mujtahids amongst the "Salafiyya" will last. Suit yourselves - if you think swapping a go-cart for a Mercedes is a wise move then feel free to choose it as your means of transport. :)akhi
i go to a "salafi" masjid, i do not follow all of what the salafia say, you have been around here long enough, you know that also
when i have a question, i ask, for example the whole bombing situation, that we discussed
i not only ask people, i read, and i ask again, and i read, and then i listen to all sides and agree to a conclusion
i may be right or wrong, but its not that i jumped up and said, haram haram haram, nor do i say, halal halal halal
i am definitely not of this opinion that if you get married shafi, you have to divorce shafi, because as long as the method is within sunnah, its all good
because one imam said, to touch a woman breaks your wudu, and he is using the thought processes instead of sunnah, then i say he is wrong, unless you show me where one of the hadiths of the prophet or companions agreed with that thinking
am i saying that i know more than him? of course not, but i dont follow madh'hab, i follow quran and sunnah
so if a sunni forum sheikh can show me a sunnah of the prophet, i will accept that, if a salafi sheik shows me a sunnah of the prophet, i will accept that, but if their conclusion is based upon some deduction, then it is what is is, but it is not quran and sunnah
salam alaikum brother:
[/QUOTE]
so if a sunni forum sheikh can show me a sunnah of the prophet, i will accept that, if a salafi sheik shows me a sunnah of the prophet, i will accept that, but if their conclusion is based upon some deduction, then it is what is is, but it is not quran and sunnah
what about ijtihad?
AbuMubarak
08-09-05, 09:35 AM
ijtihad is not what i am talking about, i am talking about the fact that muslims are saying you MUST follow a madh'hab, as if by NOT doing it, it is a sin
though i do not know any precedent that made following a madh'hab a part of islam, but I hear people constantly saying, YOU MUST
if that is the ijtihad that I must follow, then i am very confused about what islam is
we have been told to hold on to the rope of Allah, we have been told that there are two things to save us , and unless that is "madh'habs" then i do not see why that comes into play
of course, with any legal structure there are approaches, and i fully understand an approach to codify certain things, esp hudood
but to tell every-day muslims that he has to follow a madh'hab, i fail to see or understand that
is smoking weed haram? of course, based upon scholarly consensus
but if you touch a woman you must make wudu, if you believe that, fine, i just have never heard where is that from in quran and sunnah
[QUOTE=Hamoudeh]Assalamu Alaikum
If one asks you what you are, or what your religion is you will not find another answer amongst the Muqaliddeen than Muslim. If one would ask you what kind, the Muqallid would say Sunni. Then, after that comes the question of Madhhab in Fiqh and as such one can say he is a Hanafi or Maliki etc. I don't think there is any controversy over this, exactly because one only identifies himself within the context of the Ahl al-Sunnah, which is within the context of Islam.
You're explanation was the basis of my questions, and now you merely adress one of them which is about the number of people. However what is a Madhhab? Is it not a way, a methodology that it's people implement and derrive conclusions from? They do not all come the same conclusion on all subjects even within the same Madhhab, take the issue of Sadl in the Maliki Madhhab for example or many other issues. I think you're alternative is really the response, namely to do what seems right. But we are not scholars, how does anything of such detail seem something to us when we do not even have access let alone understanding of all the sources or can explore the reasoning of those who came to conclusions? In the end it becomes a matter of the nafs, and that is the main reason why it is necessary for a non-Mujtahid of a certain degree to be a Muqallid on a certain degree. And this Taqleed requires consistency, something a Muqallid is not always in the position to verify.
Asalamu alykum, first of all i understand the concept of madhabs and their main purpose was to explain (Fiqh) the sunna of Mohamed(saw). But i think i haven't made myself clear, please address this point only, i'm objecting to people calling themselves by the name of the madhab they follow. You are telling me where is the devision in the past, i have explained, when people previous were taught about this matter, they were told its an understanding of the actions of the prophet (saw) explained by abu hanifa, or any other scholars. But today, people have taken this to the next step, i must call myelf hanafi, shafi, to really be a follower of the scholar, is what i object to. Lastly i have nothing against madhabs, why should i, i have to follow thier understanding becuase they explained it to the best of man's ability. I hope that is clear enough. (Jazakallahu khair, i have read the first link you provided, really nice and informative)
Walykum salam.
Umm Layth
08-09-05, 11:45 AM
ijtihad is not what i am talking about, i am talking about the fact that muslims are saying you MUST follow a madh'hab, as if by NOT doing it, it is a sin
though i do not know any precedent that made following a madh'hab a part of islam, but I hear people constantly saying, YOU MUST
if that is the ijtihad that I must follow, then i am very confused about what islam is
we have been told to hold on to the rope of Allah, we have been told that there are two things to save us , and unless that is "madh'habs" then i do not see why that comes into play
of course, with any legal structure there are approaches, and i fully understand an approach to codify certain things, esp hudood
but to tell every-day muslims that he has to follow a madh'hab, i fail to see or understand that
is smoking weed haram? of course, based upon scholarly consensus
but if you touch a woman you must make wudu, if you believe that, fine, i just have never heard where is that from in quran and sunnah
Akhee, Quran and sunnah are not the only sources of shariah ther are also Ijma as-Sahabah and Qayas, and Qayas is the most complex of shariah source than the others. Most of Fiqh especially the fiqh al Waqiayh is based on varioau usul principles eminating from Qayas. So in the case a daleel is not found in the nosous what do you do then? So for example your in a lift with one female, is this khulwa or not? you will not find a hadith, but a scholar wil have to do Ijtihad using a methodoly based on Usul he adopted or the one of school he subscribe to.
If anyone understands the full scope of Shariah and Fiqh, they will realise its not as easy and simplistic as the idea of following Quran and sunnah is being proposed.
I think Bro Mubarak is trying to say he is not against Madh'hab, or iktikad.......
he's just saying its not a sin if one does not follow a particular ruling of the madh'hab, if the justifications for a particular ruling is not concrete enough.
I'm with him on this one......
But I also know that there's wisdom in the rulings made by our great scholars.....
and I'm not knowledgable enough to question the established rulings. such as nullfied wudhu because of skin contact of a mahram....
Wassalam
Al-Irhaab
08-09-05, 06:07 PM
Faqir are you obsessed with the word salafi? its in nearly all your own written posts :S.
Why cant you follow a madhab, but not call yourself by the name given to it?
The divison starts there, when you start calling yourself by that shcolar, "im a hanafi, so this act is permissable for me, your a hanbali, thats why you pray like that" :rolleyes:
sister the reason why it is important is because of enjoining good forbidding evil... imagine someone just prayed salah and the brother next to them said bro why didnt you do rafidain and the bro turned around and said in such a such a hadith it says such and such and that brother turned around and said but according to this scholar that hadith is dhaif and then he would turn around and say our scholar says it is sahih and then the other would say show me your daleel and by the end of it both would be so confused they wouldnt know how to pray and all of this would have been solved simply if the first had said im hanafi.
I have seen this with my own eyes i was praying and after salah a brother came to me and said you know the prophet (saw) did rafidhain so you should do it... all i said was bro im hanafi and that was the end of the discussion no arguing between people who dont know the faintest about islam just mutual understanding that I take knowledge from that which I trust.
AbuMubarak
09-09-05, 01:08 AM
irhab
you and i dont disagree often, but if the brothers were knowledgeable, they would know that both ways are in the sunnah
this is the problem, it is not a madh'hab, it is a sunnah
ignorant people should not debate deen
(discuss, yes, debate, no)
Al-Irhaab
09-09-05, 04:10 PM
brother we may disagree on the specifics but we dont disagree on the right to differ :D
i say now that if someone calls himself hanafi shafi maliki hanbali etc there is nothing wrong with it... and if someone says i choose not to call myself any just muslim i dont have a problem with it... wot i see is that today too many muslims have hatred or show little love to other muslims despite the fact they pray and fast and do good in the deen just because they differ on issues like this... for me what i have learnt alhamdulillah is that their are bigger and more important things to worry about... for me i would rather that i speak to someone who doesnt pray or fast and make him fast and pray and on the deen then speak to a brother and convince him to follow a madhab or not to follow a madhab...
Cupcake
10-09-05, 05:46 PM
New article: Women’s Human Rights in Islaam (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/women-human-rights.htm)
http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/women-human-rights.htm (http://www.islam-is-the-only-solution.com/women-human-rights.htm)
Hamoudeh
14-10-05, 08:30 PM
Assalamu alaikum wa-ramadan kareem!
'Understanding Madhhabs: A Beginner's Guide and FAQ' - Umm Nabeel (http://www.modernmuslima.com/madhhabs.htm)
'The Legal Status of Following a Madhab' - Booklet by Mufti Taqi Usmani (http://www.cometoislam.com/fiqh/legal/main.htm)
'Introduction to Following a Madhab' - Lecture by Imam Zaid Shakir (http://209.41.170.97:8080/ramgen/%7Ezmedia/audio/Imam%20Zaid%20Shakir%20-%20Introduction%20to%20Following%20A%20Madhab.rm).
Ma`salam
Hamoudeh
26-12-05, 05:02 PM
For new additions see: Importance of Following Madhahib (http://www.forumforfree.com/forums/index.php?mforum=ahadunahad&showtopic=287)
For an overview of sources see: Bibliography: Madhaahib, Taqleed & Ijtihaad (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72895)
Ma`salamaat
Alhamdulilah there has been healthy discussion going on here, always good to see.
Madaahib and following of Madaahib is not something compulsory according to the Quran and Sunnah. One will not find an ayah in the Quran that says follow a Madhab, nor will one find a hadith.
So why do the Ullama and Saliheen advice us to follow a Madhab?
According to our Pious Predecessors we are encourage to acquire enough knowledge to derive the Ahkaam ourselves. That is the first choice, this would be if we were all Mujtahideen, and we were great Fuqaha and we could derive the Ahkam directly from the Quran and Sunnah. Unfortunately we are not Mujtahideen and thus we do not have the knowledge in deen to go and derive Ahkam from Quran and Sunnah, hence when we are faced with an issue we ask a scholar. This means we do not fit the first category of those who can derive directly from Quran and Sunnah.
Here we are to step down to the next step.
Who do we follow with regards to Ahkam and their derivation if we can’t derive them ourselves?
The Hadith of the Prophet SAW is clear, Khairul Quroone Qarnee, thumallatheena yaloona hum thumallatheena yaloona hum.
This hadith gives clear definition as to who are the best of people. The era of the Prophet, then those after him, then those after them. There is also other Ahadith of the Prophet SAW were he says to follow his Sahaba etc.
Therefore, we are told by the Holy Prophet to follow the pious predecessors.
So why cant us just grab a Hadith and follow it, and grab an ayah and follow it? Why do we need derivation of Ahkam?
When we are faced with an issue we generally can find a hadith on it quiet easily, and we may even find an ayah on it. However are those the only Ahadith and ayat on the matter? or are there other Hadiths and Ayats? Generally there are, so how do we differentiate between which to follow and what each one means?
This is the knowledge of the Fuqaha, they know the full reason behind the revelation of Ayat, and reason behind the Hadith. They also know if any ayats have become Naskh etc. They can also verify Ahadith.
To the lay man the Hadith in the Sah e Sita is good enough, to the Fuqaha it is one Hadith at a time, because Hadith for Ahkaam have to be verified and they can not be taken blindly.
That is why we follow Madaahib. We follow because the great imams had done the research for each Ahkam, those researches were checked by there students they were then verified then written down.
What we must be careful is treating a Madhaab as deen, the Madaahib are not deen, they are only explanations of deen based on Quran and Sunnah. The Deen will always remain to be Quran and Sunnah. This is also why the Madaahib do not fall in the category of the 73 sects.
For those people who say we don’t follow a Madhaab, then they go and get their fatwa from Allama Baaz RA and Allama Uthaiymeen RA, my question to them is, are you not following those Ullama? Then what is the difference between following the imams and following these Ullama?
Allama Ibn Baaz, Allama Uthaiymeen themselves followed much of the Hanbali fiqh though they were great Fuqaha and some Ullama say both of them were Mujtahideen, so they did not need to follow Madaahib, but out of wise choice all their fatwat are based on Hanbali fiqh.
And Allah knows best.
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