Question about handling the Qu'ran

[cherub]

Peace and greetings to you.
I have encountered many Muslims who mention that there are strict rules to reading or handling a Qu'ran (like being clean and sitting straight and that sort of thing) one of them also told me that as a non-Muslim i'm actually not allowed to touch the Qu'ran (this is obviously made up!!!)
Now could you help me to understand where all these supposed rules come from?
Especially since the Qu'ran was transmitted as spoken word, not as a actual book on paper.

It seems to contradict logic if the Qu'ran is supposed to be recited orally that there are rules for handling it in book form.

And why do some Muslim also give special meaning to actual Islamic scripture (written text) as if this has special powers ?
(Like one can't write for example a Qu'ranic text on a haram object)

Thank you.

( a more recent example of this attitude towards written Qu'ran's was highlighted with the supposed Qu'ran abuses on Guantanamo Bay)

[Free-Bird]

Peace and greetings to you.
I have encountered many Muslims who mention that there are strict rules to reading or handling a Qu'ran (like being clean and sitting straight and that sort of thing) one of them also told me that as a non-Muslim i'm actually not allowed to touch the Qu'ran (this is obviously made up!!!)
Now could you help me to understand where all these supposed rules come from?
Especially since the Qu'ran was transmitted as spoken word, not as a actual book on paper.

It seems to contradict logic if the Qu'ran is supposed to be recited orally that there are rules for handling it in book form.It is the rule base on misundersanding in understanding the Qur'an, this is not the only one. But all of this are sign of the people who cares for our belief, we do funny things in our seriousness.

One of the major play in the sight of Allah is the sincerety, the early muslims and the many today are sincere in their belief.

And why do some Muslim also give special meaning to actual Islamic scripture (written text) as if this has special powers ?
(Like one can't write for example a Qu'ranic text on a haram object)
Had it been possible for a Lecture to cause
the mountains to move, or
the earth to be torn asunder, or
the dead to speak, (this Qur'an would have done so). Nay, but Allah's is the whole command.

Do not those who believe know that, had Allah willed, He could have guided all mankind?
As for those who disbelieve, disaster ceaseth not to strike them because of what they do, or it dwelleth near their home until the threat of Allah come to pass.
Lo! Allah faileth not to keep the tryst. (13:31)

[MrBlowtatoes]

i would like to add that...

not only the Quran, but ALL religious materials, even if it is misguidence and blasphemy, should be handled with care, becasue they ARE still tlaking about Allah, our creator, and jsut becasue it isn't a Quran doesn't mean it is ok to misuse these materials

like if a christians givs you a pamplet with Jesus on it...it IS A SIN FOR YOU TO JUST RTHOW IT IN THE TRASH..becasue your trashing the anme of a Prophet

if even a jew gives you a pamplet with Moses name on it..it is NOT OK TO THROW IT AWAY

any religious material contianing the word God. or anyhtign like ti is obviously refering to the creator, and thus it must not be misused

papers with religious anmes..such as abdullah etc...are sinful to misuse

papers with Joseph, David, etc..on them..are religious materials [if they are refering to the propehts]..and it does not matter what religioun the pamplet or book belongs to..it is still sacred to muslims becasue it has the name of our beloved propehts and our creator on it..even though it is full of lies

so please, no matter what religious it belongs to..ALL religious material should be handled with care and not be misused

[cherub]

i would like to add that...

not only the Quran, but ALL religious materials, even if it is misguidence and blasphemy, should be handled with care, becasue they ARE still tlaking about Allah, our creator, and jsut becasue it isn't a Quran doesn't mean it is ok to misuse these materials

like if a christians givs you a pamplet with Jesus on it...it IS A SIN FOR YOU TO JUST RTHOW IT IN THE TRASH..becasue your trashing the anme of a Prophet

if even a jew gives you a pamplet with Moses name on it..it is NOT OK TO THROW IT AWAY

any religious material contianing the word God. or anyhtign like ti is obviously refering to the creator, and thus it must not be misused

papers with religious anmes..such as abdullah etc...are sinful to misuse

papers with Joseph, David, etc..on them..are religious materials [if they are refering to the propehts]..and it does not matter what religioun the pamplet or book belongs to..it is still sacred to muslims becasue it has the name of our beloved propehts and our creator on it..even though it is full of lies

so please, no matter what religious it belongs to..ALL religious material should be handled with care and not be misused

really? But why? Who made these rules? Is it in the Qu'ran? is it in the sunna? It's just a piece of paper with text on it.
It's like it's been added to Islam when Allah never mentioned anything like this.
Let me just give you a update on a discussion i had with another Muslim about this.

I cannot BELIEVE you touched the Qu'ran!!! May Allah forgive us (Muslims) for not protecting the Qu'ran against filthy hypocrites and kafirs like you !
You stupid Christians and Jews shall know the truth one day ! I hope you never come on TV and ask question about our faith because we Muslims are capable of anything in order to protect our Lord Allah (SWT), our Prophet (PBUH), and our religion (HMDL) may Shaitan lead you to hell ,and Allah not have mercy on you on Yawm Al Qiyama.
If your still alive when the dadjdjal comes, then i hope you follow him, we Muslims will then fight you and against the cursed Christians and Jews, you better stop sticking your fithy nose in our beloved religion in order to give it a bad name! I hope you will have the same thing happen to you as Theo van Gogh (6) that is what you deserve! One question why do you want to learn about our Holy Book?

This is not a joke..this is a Muslim responding to the same question i posted here.
This is not normal man, really this is what damages Islam more then any possible critisism from any non-Muslim.

[PsychoElixir]

thats alittle over board...how can anyone expect to "learn their lesson" about Islam if you cant tough the book that teaches it? i was an atheist when i first held and read the Qu'ran...thats non-sense in my opinion

[cherub]

thats alittle over board...how can anyone expect to "learn their lesson" about Islam if you cant tough the book that teaches it? i was an atheist when i first held and read the Qu'ran...thats non-sense in my opinion

lol..a little overboard? I just got threatenend to get cut up if i even so much as think of reading a Qu'ran!

[cherub]

You people better get your act together because if not we (non Muslims) will do it for you.

[MrBlowtatoes]

This is not a joke..this is a Muslim responding to the same question i posted here.
This is not normal man, really this is what damages Islam more then any possible critisism from any non-Muslim.

the guy who said this is a retard and a moron, simply becasue of his 'hatered for kafirs' [even Allah talaa is not attributed with hate] he is most likely a whahabie, young boy, about age 18, who heard from bin baaz or lewis faracon about that he THINKS islam is, and now he acting like a retard and calling it 'jihad'

i am sorry, i know kafirs with more sense than the guy that posted here..in fact, i know jews with more sense

non-muslims not being able to hold the Quran is reatrd, the Quran is a message to ALL people, not just muslims





just text on paaper?, why then do you take care of the Quran, if it is jsut dumb useless text on paper with no meaning?...as you just pointed out.

[Pendarth]

Dear Cherub:

From SunniPath.com (http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=17&CATE=30):http://www.sunnipath.com/images/Q_Image.jpg
Can we give a Quran that is Arabic with English translation (and has more English than Arabic), such as The Majestic Quran? Can we give a Quran that is only in English?

Does a non-Muslim have to have wudu before touching the Arabic part? If we give him a Quran with mostly English, and he touches the Arabic script without wudu do we get the sin for it?

Can we give non-Muslims books that have portions of the Quran in it in Arabic (like a book discussing certain topics via the Quran and uses the Arabic script sometimes), can he (or for that matter, us Muslims) touch the Arabic without wudu?

http://www.sunnipath.com/images/A_Image.jpg
http://www.sunnipath.com/images/bism01.jpg
Assalamu alaykum

In the name of Allah, the Inspirer of truth.

It would be permissible to give copies of Qur'an to non-Muslims if:
their guidance is intended thereof,
and a person is reasonably confident that they will not disrespect the copy.

If the non-Muslim person does not understand Arabic then it would be better to provide just a copy of the translation of the Qur'an rather than one with the Arabic text. If they have to be given a copy with the Arabic text, then they should be advised to purify themselves first before handling the Qur'an.

According to some scholars, they are technically not responsible for performing ablution and ghusl for touching it [see Ahkam al-Dhimmi in al-Ashbah wa 'l-Naza'ir and Radd al-Muhtar 5:248], since they are not responsible for the extended laws of Islam until they embrace the faith. It is still best, when possible and appropriate, to advise them to do so even according to this opinion.

However, the opinion taken by Ibn 'Abidin in his in depth commentary of the al-Durr al-Mukhtar and Tahtawi in his commentary of the Maraqi al-Falah is that non-Muslims are also obligated to perform the ritual bath for touching it (Radd al-Muhtar 1:119, Tahtawi 94). Fatima, the sister of 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him), instructed him to purify himself before she would allow him to touch the sheets that had portions of the Qur'an inscribed upon them. (Hayat al-Sahaba )

If a person gives a copy of the Qur'an to a non-Muslim after advising him and teaching him, to the best of his ability, the conditions and etiquette of handling it, then he should not be blameworthy thereafter if there is any neglect.

A book with quotes of verses from the Qur'an can be held without ablution even by Muslims as long as the verses constitute only a small percentage of the contents of the book. However, as regards to touching the actual verses of the Qur'an, ablution would be necessary for both Muslims and non-Muslims.

And Allah knows best.

Wassalam

Abdurrahman ibn Yusuf
Peace and greetings to you.

I have encountered many Muslims who mention that there are strict rules to reading or handling a Qu'ran (like being clean and sitting straight and that sort of thing) one of them also told me that as a non-Muslim i'm actually not allowed to touch the Qu'ran (this is obviously made up!!!)

Now could you help me to understand where all these supposed rules come from?

Especially since the Qu'ran was transmitted as spoken word, not as a actual book on paper.

It seems to contradict logic if the Qu'ran is supposed to be recited orally that there are rules for handling it in book form.

And why do some Muslim also give special meaning to actual Islamic scripture (written text) as if this has special powers ?
(Like one can't write for example a Qu'ranic text on a haram object)

Thank you.

( a more recent example of this attitude towards written Qu'ran's was highlighted with the supposed Qu'ran abuses on Guantanamo Bay)

Quran as written text (in original arabic) is the written word of God. In the quraan are verses which mention that "none touch it, save those who are purified (cleansed)" ... which where the prohibiition from touching it, as muslims, comes from.

Translations of the quraan are NOT the word of God - and thus the prohibitions do not apply to it. Thus when giving it as a gift to non-muslims wishing to understand Islam - the recepient isn't required to undergo all the prerequisite adaab (manners).

The mushaf (parchment) was written down on leaves and skins in the time of the prophet s.a.w. and although preserved MOSTLY via oral tradition - it was concurrently preserved in writing. Thus the rules and laws were observed even then.

Writing verses of the quraan on haraam places or objects would be blasphemous - similar to "thou shalt not take the lords name in vian." I hear that copies of the blble are provided in each room in a hotel - how would it make a practicing believer feel if they were provided (God forbid) in all public toilets so that people could read it while relieving themselves ?? it's blasphemous !! [This is not meant in an offensive way - but, to illustrate a point; I ask your forgiveness if I've carried the example to the extreme, in order to prove a point ... but, writing verses of the quraan on a haraam place or object would be similarly offensive to muslims]

Best wishes

[cherub]

Thanks Pendarth thats interesting, i apologize btw for being so harsh in one of my responses i just don't get threatend with death like that very often.

Again i will need to study this, i read on another Q&A site that there is some sort of letter from Mohammed (well one of his scribes obviously) which also talks about this.
Yet it still seems odd to me.

But thank you for your kind answers.

[abdulhakeem]

cherub, i once started a thread that i hope will clarify your concerns and answer your question.

Etiquettes Of Handling The Holy Quran (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57911)

further reading:

Non-Muslims touching the Qur’aan (Mushaaf) (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57834)

Quran reading unlawful..???? (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16548)

FAITH has a language (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44200)

The Amazing Quran (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45086)

[PsychoElixir]

well for one...if its the word of GOD...why would treat it like nothing? thats not very nice to handle the work of your creator like trash....not saying you do...i just mean in general...


as for you "just thinking about reading it"...you shoulda laughed at them...how do you think people convert to Islam to begin with? obviously i read the Qu'ran before i converted....you would have to read it before you convert...if it was so sacred then why would they sell it in stores?

simply put...you have to read about the religion before you actually join it...why would you join anything without fully understanding what your doing? thats the act of a fool...

and just out of curiosity...why were you handling the Qu'ran to begin with? out of curiosity or something? were you interested?

[cherub]

well for one...if its the word of GOD...why would treat it like nothing? thats not very nice to handle the work of your creator like trash....not saying you do...i just mean in general...


as for you "just thinking about reading it"...you shoulda laughed at them...how do you think people convert to Islam to begin with? obviously i read the Qu'ran before i converted....you would have to read it before you convert...if it was so sacred then why would they sell it in stores?

simply put...you have to read about the religion before you actually join it...why would you join anything without fully understanding what your doing? thats the act of a fool...

and just out of curiosity...why were you handling the Qu'ran to begin with? out of curiosity or something? were you interested?

Of course, i hold several translations but it's NOT because i want to become Muslim per se, i just want to understand Islam and what it is about.
To me it's just a book in the closet, i do not treat it any different then any other book.

The thing i do not understand though, a book is just a book, it's not the word of God.
God "supposedly" (i'm not religious myself) spoke to prophets in the past and through his angels, thats the Word of God.
A book is just a man made object filled with inkt.
So thats why i do not understand why these things are important to Muslims or those of any religion for that matter.
They are obviously just man made materials.
Especially since the Qu'ran was taught orally it seems like a strange thing to have such reference for paper and inkt.
It's also especially odd when you consider Islam has such strict rules for not worshipping man made objects and the like.
Man made images of God or a big no-no in Islam.

[cherub]

So it looks strange to me when i see Muslims subscribing special reference to for example Qu'ranic/Arabic script, like it has special powers.
When it is just a man made translation of the words spoken to Mohammed.

God didn't write the Qu'ran men did.
At least thats how i look at it.

God inspired it "supposedly", but men wrote it down on paper.
In figures they could read.
Arabic script.

[PsychoElixir]

okay...the phrase "Word of God" maybe isnt on point...i'll admit thats a bad way of putting it...its more like the "Message of God"...Muhammad (pbuh) was told by the angel gabriel that he was carrying the message of Allah...and Muhammad wrote what he heard...is it word for word? ehh....honestly who knows?...but we know that the message is there...and thats the most important thing...

The Qu'ran contains words from Allah given to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel...Muhammad WROTE the book but he isnt the AUTHER of it....to say he is the mastermind behind it would be a mistake...


as for leaving the Qu'ran in your closet...well...im not gunna say thats a great thing to do...but your not a Muslim nor do you practice the faith...so its not my place to judge how you treat your version of the holy scriptures...imma just ask that you please try to be nice to it...dont wrestle with it or anything please?

[.: Anna :.]

:eek: Yes PsychoElixir of course the Qur'an is word for word written according to what was revealed to Mohammed salallahu alayhi wa salam. We have to be clear on this. It is not "just the message", those are the actual words which were revealed and that fact is very important!

[.: Anna :.]

one more thing, Mohammed salallahu alayhi wa salam did not write the Qur'an...
Simply he received the revelation from Allah through his angel Jibreel. As we know, he (alayhi salat wa salam) was illiterate and not able to write. So he was neither the author or writer of Qur'an or anything like that, but rather he used to recite what was revealed to him and he (alayhi salat wa salam) and the early Muslims memorised the suras of Qur'an without them being written. Because so many sahaba were HaafiZ of Quraan, there was not any chance that even one single word could be written wrongly.

The first person who had the job of recording the Qur'an on paper was Zaid Ibn Thabit radhiallahu anhu, some others helped him in the task but he was the main one.The order of the suras was done under the guidance of Jibreel and the words written were exactly as they had been revealed to Rasoolallah. Then after that Abu Bakr radhiallahu anhu compiled the Qur'an during his time as khalifa, and also Uthman while he was Khalifa had many copies made and distributed :)

[PsychoElixir]

ahah forgive me sister...i was unaware he was illiterate...and it being word for word goes to show that it actually is the word of God...again i beg forgiveness

[.: Anna :.]

its cool bro :)

[cherub]

I would ask you to help me understand , I know it will sound critical maybe even blasphemous to some, i do not want to get threatened to get cut up again if you know what i mean :)
But how can you be sure that the actual description of Gods word in the Qu'ran accurately shows His message?

To make it even harder, Arabic script as i understand it, for i do not myself speak the language, is a lot different then English or most other languages.

It allows for different meaning to words, like horse could mean animal i ride on, or animal with strong legs that can support me, I'm making it very simplistic.
Arabic script is similar, one symbol could have different meanings depending on several factors.
So what does this mean if the Qu'ran in classical Arabic, is simply a translation of Gods word?

[cherub]

ahah forgive me sister...i was unaware he was illiterate...and it being word for word goes to show that it actually is the word of God...again i beg forgiveness

Shame on you ! I as a non-Muslim could have told you that! ;)

[abdulhakeem]

The Unlettered Prophet (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14332)

A reply to a Christian who denies that the Quran was revealed from Allah (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33203)

[.: Anna :.]

I would ask you to help me understand , I know it will sound critical maybe even blasphemous to some, i do not want to get threatened to get cut up again if you know what i mean :)
But how can you be sure that the actual description of Gods word in the Qu'ran accurately shows His message?

To make it even harder, Arabic script as i understand it, for i do not myself speak the language, is a lot different then English or most other languages.

It allows for different meaning to words, like horse could mean animal i ride on, or animal with strong legs that can support me, I'm making it very simplistic.
Arabic script is similar, one symbol could have different meanings depending on several factors.
So what does this mean if the Qu'ran in classical Arabic, is simply a translation of Gods word?

Allah sent it in Arabic because that was the language of Mohammed saws and the people around him, because they needed to understand it straight away. As for us, we learn Arabic to get a better understanding... thats why Arabic is sooo important! There are also translations in other languages to help people who cnt understand Arabic. The translations are not really Qur'an... it is only the Arabic which is the word of Allah, because that is how he sent it.
As for the horse thing... uhh not really :S :S lol