Abduction or vacation to libya ?

[Magnolia]

My sister married a Muslim eighteen years ago,they seperated last year and she divorced him.He has spent the last year stalking her and tracking her phone records,he has found out where her new boyfriend lives and drove my three nieces to the boyfriends house,to show them where their mother was ? he disapproves of her lifestyle and her new non muslim boyfriend,he told my mother he can never accept it ?..he has booked a four week vacation to Libya with my nieces and say's he is going to his sister's wedding,my sister believes him,when he say's he is coming back,I don't. Any insight would be appreciated.

[Magnolia]

Can my Muslim brother-law accept a new husband in my sister's life ,who is Not muslim ? will he allow this man to know his daughter's..? He was born in Libya ,and came to Canada as a student,he and my sister dated ,she became pregnant and they married ,my family are Not religious,nor ever have been affliated with any religion..and we are of Canadian culture.

[Magnolia]

What happen's under muslim law,regarding custody after a divorce ? Is there anyone here that can offer me insight ? any experiences here ? :(

[*IslamicGirl*]

Magnolia

Is your sister a Muslim? :)

[MG]

What happen's under muslim law,regarding custody after a divorce ? Is there anyone here that can offer me insight ? any experiences here ? :(

under islamic shariah law, the son/daughter must live with father once attaining the age of 7/8yrs old, this does not mean the non-resident parent is left in the cold, the non-resident parent must have as much access to the child as possible to, no one's parental rights must be taken away.

Hope this helps a little-
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/ccustody1.htm

[Magnolia]

My sister became muslim for a couple of years,but no,not anymore,the girls are, 11,15 and seventeen years of age.He has also said my sister has dishonored him,she wears shorts and regular western clothing. Right now they have joint custody,she has the girls half the time and he has them the other half. Will he accept my sister's new life ? Magnolia

Is your sister a Muslim? :)

[*muslim*]

Hi,

There is a question here about your nieces when you said one of them , her age is 17 years old , it is old enough to decide , they might want to stay with their father, and no one force them and i can not understand that ,when your nieces was spending time with thire mother was in her boyfriends house or other house , becasue you said,he drove his daughters to see thire mother in her new life style and they have to spend half of time with her , how comes?, it does make sence to me.

[Magnolia]

My sister has her own home,however,the days she does not have the girls,she spends time at her boyfriends house,she introduced her youngest daughter to her boyfriend,my brother-inlaw was very upset she did this,and told my mother he cannot accept this,he then decided he was going to take the girls on a holiday to Libya because his sister is getting married,he plans on leaving August 10th,my mother does not believe he will come back to Canada..I am worried.

[*IslamicGirl*]

Yes but your nieces are not kids the eldest one is 17 surely she can understand and look out for herself :)

They can judge their daddy's character by themselves now :)

[*muslim*]

he plans on leaving August 10th,my mother does not believe he will come back to Canada..I am worried.

he is still in uk , you have doubts about that he might take them away from your sister?

i dont understand if someone does not like thing or friend, he will leave him , how did he spend 17 years with your sister then found himself can not accpet the way act in life ., I think there is other reasons.

AND if someone wants to take his daughtes away from her mother he would not tell her about time and plane , i think you do not need to worry . i am sure he wants to spend holiday there .

[Magnolia]

We live in Canada,he is a Canadian citizen now,and the marriage has never been a happy one,however,she never went out before they seperated last year,she has a new boyfriend,my brother-inlaw does not like my sister dating and said she setting a bad example for their daughter's and he has told my mother he does not want his daughter's to know the man she is dating,I cannot see him accepting my sister's relationships with new men,and he is taking the girls to Libya on holiday on August 10th,he has never taken them to Libya before,I don't think he will come back. he is still in uk , you have doubts about that he might take them away from your sister?

i dont understand if someone does not like thing or friend, he will leave him , how did he spend 17 years with your sister then found himself can not accpet the way act in life ., I think there is other reasons.

AND if someone wants to take his daughtes away from her mother he would not tell her about time and plan , i think you do not need to worry . i am sure he wants to spend holiday there .

[*IslamicGirl*]

What religion are the girls?

And what do THEY say about going to Libya?

If they are happy with it then let them go, i'm sure they trust their dad's judgement :)

[Magnolia]

The girls are muslim,they think they are going on holiday,so they are ok about the trip. What religion are the girls?

And what do THEY say about going to Libya?

If they are happy with it then let them go, i'm sure they trust their dad's judgement :)

[Tony]

Magnolia, Speak to your sister, do it now. If this man takes your nieces to Libya he will not bring them back. I have no doubt about this. Your sister will never be able to bring them back, in fact she may never see them again.

You already suspect this, thats why you posted this thread, trust your instincts. Your sister should see a lawyer now and get some advice, dont waste any time.

[Tony]

"He has spent the last year stalking her and tracking her phone records,he has found out where her new boyfriend lives and drove my three nieces to the boyfriends house,to show them where their mother was ?"

These are not the actions of a man that can be trusted at all.
Stalking !! Tracking phone records !!

Yous sister should send the childrens birth certificates and their passports to some one she can trust in case this man tries to abduct them. The childrens names can be put on a list that all airports and sea ports have, this stops them leaving the country without the mothers permission, a lawyer can tell you more.

[*muslim*]

The girls are muslim,they think they are going on holiday,so they are ok about the trip.

are they acting as mulsim ?do they wear head scarf , praying ,fasting......?

[Voyager]

one minute you're saying he doesn't wantthe mother to tell them aboutthe boyfriend, and then you're also saying he drove the girls up to where she was with her boyfriend??

[Voyager]

As a muslim he must be concerned about their upbringing for obvious reasons, her style of dress - shorts, her having a boyfriend etc

I think I would be concerned too if my non-muslim wife was setting such an unislamic example to my daughters, no offense, just a muslim perspective

i don't think you have much to worry about them not coming back though, you can easily report him to the authorities if they do not return.

[Tony]

Voyager said,
"i don't think you have much to worry about them not coming back though, you can easily report him to the authorities if they do not return."

Does Libya have an extradition treaty with Canada, not the last time I checked.
Report as much as you want, you may as well whistle into the wind.

[Magnolia]

I have talked to foreign affairs and my sister cannot do anything if he decides Not to come back to Canada,the government cannot get involved and in Libya he has full custody of the children,he asked my sister for a divorce and she gave him one,he took the children to her boyfriends house to prove that their mother was sleeping with another man,to discredit her,I cannot see him coming back,he doesn't like Canadian culture,he never did.He also has some sort of export business there,my sister doesn't know much because she was never allowed to ask,she wasn't even permitted to collect the mail,he wouldn't allow it,so I think she has no idea about him. Voyager said,
"i don't think you have much to worry about them not coming back though, you can easily report him to the authorities if they do not return."

Does Libya have an extradition treaty with Canada, not the last time I checked.
Report as much as you want, you may as well whistle into the wind.

[Magnolia]

No offense taken,I understand ,but I don't believe my sister is getting it,he can be abusive to her verbally and I think she is happy just to get some peace from him.The girls do not speak arabic,but they do fast etc..but yes,she is certainly a good person and a devoted mother,but she is not Islamic in any way shape or form.He has to know that my sister is gone for good and is going to live her life her own way,that's why I believe he won't return,he knows. As a muslim he must be concerned about their upbringing for obvious reasons, her style of dress - shorts, her having a boyfriend etc

I think I would be concerned too if my non-muslim wife was setting such an unislamic example to my daughters, no offense, just a muslim perspective

i don't think you have much to worry about them not coming back though, you can easily report him to the authorities if they do not return.

[Voyager]

well i don't think he's after your sister, or finding it hard to get over her, he was the one asking her for a divorce? He seems more concerned for his daughters and the unislamic effect she has on them, imo

either way I think you have already made up your mind on what you think he is going to do

[Magnolia]

No,he is not wanting my sister back,he did ask for the divorce ,I have made up my mind,but she doesn't get it...? she doesn't understand what he finds unacceptable to the point where he will take his daughter's where she will have no influence,these girls were raised in Canada,they will never be happy in Libya. well i don't think he's after your sister, or finding it hard to get over her, he was the one asking her for a divorce? He seems more concerned for his daughters and the unislamic effect she has on them, imo

either way I think you have already made up your mind on what you think he is going to do

[*muslim*]

Hi,

I find from your posters, you are keen more than thier mother , i am sorry to say your sister should fight and be worried more than you. probably she doesnt mind and is happy in her new life.as normal mother should care about her kids and does not allow to take them away from her and do anything to prevent it .

there is other thing i can not understand , if she get divorced of coures she has to look for new life , it is wired what does her husdnabd think she will not stay alone for ever adn she is not muslm , it is sad to see peopel who spen 18 years and have three daughtes acting like that , apparently, no one think about kids I feel sorry about them what will impact that on their future.

[Proud_2B_Muslim]

With no offense to my Muslim brothers and sisters:

Unfortunately, this situation is not rare.

A Muslim man comes from overseas, marries a non-Muslim woman, both decide it's not going to work out, Muslim man takes children away from mother forever.

Of course, the Muslim father has a right to raise his children in the Islamic manner, but it does not allow him the right to erase the mother from their lives.

Having said all that, we can't assume that is what he will do. However, if he does, then the children may very well be lost forever.

It is better to be cautious and wary.

Maybe you can ask to see the return tickets. But then again, you can always change the tickets once you get there.

So I don't know exactly how you can be cautious, but please do.

Again, this is not meant to offend any Muslim brothers or sisters: it's just that these situations have happened numerous times.

[Voyager]

No,he is not wanting my sister back,he did ask for the divorce ,I have made up my mind,but she doesn't get it...? she doesn't understand what he finds unacceptable to the point where he will take his daughter's where she will have no influence,these girls were raised in Canada,they will never be happy in Libya.

i find it hard to believe that a father will keep his daughters in libya against their wishes, how long do you reckon he will be able to keep them there, knowing how upset they are, how long can he possibly see them like that in that state?

[Magnolia]

Yes, with most people and most circumstances that would be true,but,he's always been abusive,when I say he was stalking my sister,yeesh,he's alway's been a control freak,she couldn't visit anyone,even her family,without him calling two or three times,he slapped his eldest daughter so hard on the face when she was two years old, he left marks on her ,we intervened and he agreed to counciling,and they went for couple counciling forever,but ,it never lasted,you know,when she first told him she was pregnant ,he asked her to have an abortion,she wouldn't,then they married and she became muslim.In 1991 he tried to get Libyan passports for is two daughter's,the return address was his work place,foreign affairs intercepted the passports and notified my sister,she could have had him deported,but didn't,My mother has been holding passports ever since.Would he like to see them unhappy ? No,but ,is able to let go and accept what must be truly unacceptable to him ? two weeks ago,my sister was questioning his ability to parent,now he's taking the girls to Libya on an almost four week vacation ? what's changed ? Since telling her of his plans,he has been very nice to my sister,leaves her alone and tells her all the right things,went as far as saying he hopes they can come back together as a family someday,he's manipulating her because he knows she is falling in love with someone else,she feels sorry for him because she has found someone to love,he knows it. Of course,there is a chance I'm wrong and that he will come back,but under these circumstances ?,he went to Libya three months ago for three weeks ?, at the very least ,find a compromise and hold one back . Do you believe he can accept my sister having a non muslim man in her life ? will he ever accept his daughter's knowing this man ? or any ? she will never marry again,but my sister will live with someone again, he doesn't accept western culture,he can no longer control my sister,but his daughter's are going to be good islamic girls and obedient to him.Maybe he will come back,but I don't understand why he would go from stalking my sister etc ..to leaving her alone with her boyfriend for four:help: weeks.If this sounds like a paradox...he is. I'll shut up now. i find it hard to believe that a father will keep his daughters in libya against their wishes, how long do you reckon he will be able to keep them there, knowing how upset they are, how long can he possibly see them like that in that state?

[Tony]

i find it hard to believe that a father will keep his daughters in libya against their wishes, how long do you reckon he will be able to keep them there, knowing how upset they are, how long can he possibly see them like that in that state?

What ?? Do you live in a cave Voyager, somewhere where there is no TV, radio or access to newspapers ?
I cant speak for Canada, but I can say that in Britain abduction of children by their own father and taken to a middle eastern country where there is no extradition is a BIG problem. It happens all the time.

[Magnolia]

Sounds like my brother inlaw. Quote:" There is often a revenge motive involved in child abductions, and abducting parents may try to convince their children that the other parent no longer wants or loves them. Therefore, it is important for you to impress upon your child that you do indeed love him or her, and that you would in no circumstances want your child to leave you." http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/child_abductions-en.asp

[Magnolia]

One of his business partner's has a beautiful villa just outside of Tripoli,is there anyone on this forum from Libya that could advise me,if house and lands sales are public information ? I wonder if my brother inlaw purchased land or a home on his last visit to Libya.

[Proud_2B_Muslim]

One of his business partner's has a beautiful villa just outside of Tripoli,is there anyone on this forum from Libya that could advise me,if house and lands sales are public information ? I wonder if my brother inlaw purchased land or a home on his last visit to Libya.

It probably is public information, but it may also take quite some time to find it. Sometimes, things are not as efficient as they should be so trying to find this bit of information may prove a little difficult.

[Voyager]

What ?? Do you live in a cave Voyager, somewhere where there is no TV, radio or access to newspapers ?
I cant speak for Canada, but I can say that in Britain abduction of children by their own father and taken to a middle eastern country where there is no extradition is a BIG problem. It happens all the time.


the girls are more or less women, not 5 year old kids that will get used to their new lifestyle!

[mouse]

tell your sister to go to a lawyer...and ask for an order forbiding him to take the children out of the country
canada is a big country he can take a holiday there...mothers have rights
see a lawyer

[Magnolia]

My sister is allowing all three girls to go on holiday to Libya with their father,nothing we can do,my family Are going to be sick with worry,my brother is ill with cancer and we have to be very supportive,the timing is awful.My sister told my mother today that she doesn't trust him..but she believes him..her words ?,thank you all for your imput,I appreciate it very much.I will keep you posted,thanks again to all who replied.:rubeyes::(

[Magnolia]

My mother saw her grandaughter's today,she had to meet them,my brother inlaw has now forbidden my nieces from seeing or talking to her,when he found out later he called my mother and was verbally abusive with her,he used terrible lanuage and sad very ugly things to her,he told her she was never going to see them agin for the rest of her life..when he comes back.she called the police and reported the incident,this is the same man who is taking them to Libya tomorrow.I am sending my sister one last email and I am going to include some of the replies on this forum,any advice or insight anyone here could offer my sister ,would be welcome.

[*muslim*]

My mother saw her grandaughter's today,she had to meet them,my brother inlaw has now forbidden my nieces from seeing or talking to her,when he found out later he called my mother and was verbally abusive with her,he used terrible lanuage and sad very ugly things to her,he told her she was never going to see them agin for the rest of her life..when he comes back.she called the police and reported the incident,this is the same man who is taking them to Libya tomorrow.I am sending my sister one last email and I am going to include some of the replies on this forum,any advice or insight anyone here could offer my sister ,would be welcome.

Although he is a mulsim , ans i am muslim , but he is doing far way from my religion , your brother in law is shocked and doesnt know what he has to do to keep his duaghters away from west culture . special youe sister choose differnt way from thire kids.


I am asking my self a question , if i put my feet in your brother in law shoes , do i take my daughters away from thier mother and force them to live in differnet country where they will have hard time to understand culture , people , it is very difficult decision and who choose is not for kids sake , i think he hates his ex wife ,To leave him and choose other person.

any thing start worng , in the end they will suffer because that is result of mistake happend when youe brother in law broke islamic rules by having relation and dating your sister before marrige .
MAY ALLAH HELP KIDS

[Proud_2B_Muslim]

I just wish you and your family the very best. :love:

I hope nothing goes wrong and Insha'Allah, God willing, your nieces will be back as your brother-in-law promised.

May Allah guide and protect you all.

Ameen. :love:

[*muslim*]

there is another thing , it is not good to give opinion about problem when we listen to one side of problem .

we dont know becasue you are listening to mother sister , we dont know about father .

please take iny your consideration that when you give your opinion .

[Proud_2B_Muslim]

there is another thing , it is not good to give opinion about problem when we listen to one side of problem .

we dont know becasue you are listening to mother sister , we dont know about father .

please take iny your consideration that when you give your opinion .

Yes, that's why I said in an earlier post that we cannot assume the father will permanently take his children away from the mother.

Nonetheless, it is not wrong to be cautious as such situations have happened before.

And I simply wished her family the best, i.e. Insha'Allah, the father will bring back the daughters and there will be nothing to worry about.

[*muslim*]

Yes, that's why I said in an earlier post that we cannot assume the father will permanently take his children away from the mother.

Nonetheless, it is not wrong to be cautious as such situations have happened before.

And I simply wished her family the best, i.e. Insha'Allah, the father will bring back the daughters and there will be nothing to worry about.

My dear brother


i am sorry i did not mean you when i said that, it is for anyone who wil give advice .

[Proud_2B_Muslim]

My dear brother


i am sorry i did not mean you when i said that, it is for anyone who wil give advice .

No, no, please do not be sorry at all!

Actually, I was not sure if you were referring to me or not and I just wanted to clarify my position on the matter--that's all.

I truly apologize for any misunderstanding.

By the way, I'm a sister. :) It's ironic because I assumed you were a sister in one of your posts and you assumed I was a brother.

Anyways, Insha'Allah, I hope there are no misunderstandings.

[*muslim*]

any newsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss?