ACTION REQUIRED (UK):living tv pornographic ads

[Hafsah]

COMPLAIN AGAINST PORNOGRAPHIC ADVERTISING BY LIVING TV

The Living TV channel is currently running a pornographic-style
advertising campaign for programmes, underwear, movies, etc.
Many billboards and bus stop adverts are showing these extremely
distasteful posters which are causing offence to a wide spectrum
of people in the community. This is especially of concern as some
of the adverts are placed next to schools, mosques and churches.

The posters titled "Living TV - The L word" are advertising for
a lesbian show. The images are pornographic and feature people
in overt sexual poses that are clearly offensive to the public.

If you are concerned about the adverts and want to help stop
this filthy marketing strategy, please file a complaint to the
Advertising Standards Agency urging them to immediately remove
these posters from the streets. It only takes a few minutes to
complete a Complaint Form. Click on the link below:

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/complaints_form (http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/how_to_complain/complaints_form)

Changing an evil through our actions is compulsory upon all of
us. To remain silent in the face of such filth, though we may
hate it in our hearts, is the lowest level of faith. Let us
take a stand against obscene and offensive advertising and
invest a few moments for the betterment of our society. These
complaints are heard if people bother to put in some effort.

[Chained_Water]

Sis you read my mind.. I was gonna start a thread bout this but never got around to it.

I see them everyday on the way to work.. they look SICK.. and it's just bluggh :mad:

I dont know how the hell they get away with it.

[Hafsah]

Sis you read my mind.. I was gonna start a thread bout this but never got around to it.

I see them everyday on the way to work.. they look SICK.. and it's just bluggh :mad:

I dont know how the hell they get away with it.

i just saw two on my way home now...astagfirullaah they're are so disgusting .. and then rememberd i had this action alert in my inbox so thought i'd share it :D

[Chained_Water]

Nice one sis :up:

I'd been meaning to look it up on the net to see if anything was being done.. just filled in the form and wrote a strongly worded letter to the ASA :D

Everyone start writing NOW!

[Hafsah]

just got a letter from the ASA saying they are investigating the issue and will decide on what action to take soon.......brothers and sisters.. fill in that complaint form and put pressure on them to remove the adverts..NOW!!!!

[Chained_Water]

I haven't had one yet.. I'll keep checking.

Their website is rubbish though.. I went over the character limit in my letter without realising, because it doesn't stop you after you've reached it :S

May have to cut it down a bit and resubmit it.

[moshyman]

Letters of complaint, my speciality... hmmm I'm yet to see the posters though, all I see are the stupid poker ones everywhere...


*searches through his archive of abusive words*

[Chained_Water]

Trust me you don't want to see them bro.. they are just plain dirty looking :vomit:

[moshyman]

The posters are clearly lacking modesty of any form and pornographic to say the least. Such things should be confined to watershed hours but how can that restraint be applied on a huge billboard directly in front of schoolchildren and people with even a shred of dignity? These adverts are also in close proximity to many schools and places of worship. Juxtaposing this immorality alongside these institutes of faith is clearly going to cause a lot of conflict within the community. This is a clear disregard for the values held sacred by many of the residents of the United Kingdom.

That's what I wrote, considering I haven't seen the ads...

[Chained_Water]

Aww.. mashaAllah.. It's good :up:

[Arsalan]

many of the billboards and averts in around london i notice are tasteless and shameless in many ways, but when society looses its modesty and sense of shame then who complains... accepts the few muslims that are left that might care.

JazakAllah khair for this thread.

[Hafsah]

i was shocked when i saw the billboard right near a church yesterday...thought the advertisers would have some respect...or at least the church could chuck some paint on it

a sis was saying how some brothers in her areas went on a 'paint chucking' expedition to cover all the billboards showing the advert :D

[Chained_Water]

:up: Well if the ASA don't do something officially people will definately do it themselves.

We used to do it at uni with all the dodgy flypostering.. all the non-Muslims would look at us like we're freaks :p ..but flypostering is illegal anyway, so they can just keep staring :mujahida:

[ponderingstar]

Sis you read my mind.. I was gonna start a thread bout this but never got around to it.

I see them everyday on the way to work.. they look SICK.. and it's just bluggh :mad:

I dont know how the hell they get away with it.

Okay so obviously we know why we have distaste for this from a Muslim perspective but I'd like to add that even from a secular democratic perspective it's just lame and wrong.

I'm so happy this thread exists on Ummah. i have seen these adverts all over the place and peole just joke about them which is all well and good but i think there is a huge mainstreaming of pornography and it needs to be stopped. If people complain I can imagine how well it will do for the programme because it's meansa "lesbian" when it refers to the L word. However the adverts are designed to just be titillation for grown men who have a lesbian fascination and obsession as is growingly popular. I find this disturbing for two reasons. One as mentioned is the way pornographic imagery is becoming mainstream pop culture, If we live ina free society where pornography is legal; i think it shoudl be kept BEHIND CLOSED doors! why should all people have to face sexual imagery in there normal lives? IT's selfish and ignorant to impose this on society. Secondly women either consiously or subconsciously pander to the whims of men. Naturally women are monogamous and desire monogamy, however it is becoming popular for men to request their women have bisexual tendencies. Younger and younger girls are becoming aware of this and develop their behaviour accordingly.

ALso the advert bothers me because if you want to REALLY show what the L word means why not show a hairy butch lady who doesn't shave with a slighlty feminine tomboy type insteda of two clean, shaved and oiled bodies? It's such rubbish. "oh look at us being subversive and controversial for no reason!" pathetic and childish in my opinion. a group of adolescent boys with adolescent girls who want to be part of the boys club trapped in adult bodies came up with this. i can imagine themselves patting themselves on the back and thinking how great they are.

[Chained_Water]

Completely agree sis. You are spot on.

It's should be immoral even by non-Muslim standards!

How can you promote sex everywhere, put it all up in EVERYONES faces, no matter how young, impressionable or whatever they are.. and then wonder why we have trends like daisy chaining in the UK.. and why we have the highest teen pregnancy rates in the whole of Europe.

Instead of handing out free condoms to kids.. maybe they should protect kids from constant uncontrolled exposure to sex, lesbianism, the idea of having multiple partners and so on.

Those ads have groups of three women etc all over each other.. it is just sickening that they can promote such behaviour and try to make it seem sexy and normal.

How can people NOT object to this being on our streets?!

[Hafsah]

:up: :up: :up:

i totally agree with you sis...those adverts are so blatantly targetted at men and their perverted lesbian fantasies

i think its so disgusting that in this so-called 'free' and 'developed' country that they have to sell a program they have to use pornographic means ... and what i don't get if homosexuality is supposedly 'normal'..why do they have to make such a big deal about it?? i don't see them making programmes where being 'straight'/'heterosexual' is the selling point :rolleyes:

[moshyman]

Lol those are the free women of the modern world, you sisters are way too oppressed. If Islam means living in the stone ages, then I'm a caveman!

[Chained_Water]

People were probably more civilised in the stone age! :rolleyes:

Don't people care about their children anymore? Why don't parents complain?!

[MG]

done.

i have to turn my son's face away evrytime i see them coming, they are soo pornographic, i mean dont these non muslims care about wat their kids are seeing, surely they are not that low?


they spend time and money , censoring, dirty movies, to keep the kids away amd then they go and do sowemthing like this?

what is the point?

[Chained_Water]

Taking of films.. the standard of films in recent years has dropped to a disgusting level as well.. 12's have so much sex in it's unbelievable and makes you wonder what the hell the point of a rating system is :banghead:

[MG]

Taking of films.. the standard of films in recent years has dropped to a disgusting level as well.. 12's have so much sex in it's unbelievable and makes you wonder what the hell the point of a rating system is :banghead:

sorry gonna go off-topic ever so slightly, yeh CW, e.g Mr and Mrs Smith, its a 15 cert i think and wen they did the promos, they said it has very sexually explicit seens beteween brad and angelina, they only mower the cert to make more money, disgusting

[Arsalan]

Agree on everything said so far. But i dont think women are naturally monogmous otherwise why would polgamy be allowed in islam if women didnt have some sort of natural trait that allowed them to accept polygomous marriages. ( this is completely off topic , i know )

[moshyman]

sorry gonna go off-topic ever so slightly, yeh CW, e.g Mr and Mrs Smith, its a 15 cert i think and wen they did the promos, they said it has very sexually explicit seens beteween brad and angelina, they only mower the cert to make more money, disgusting

I saw a poster for that movie in East London, someone painted over her picture! Big up the East London Freshies! (and there's me spending half my time abusing them all)

[Chained_Water]

LOL@East London freshies.. I saw that poster too.. if this was the sisters forum I'd compliment her on her legs :embar:

:outta:

But on a serious note, yeh the film ratings thing is disgusting sis.. You'd think a 12 would be clean.. but it's sex sex sex, everywhere, on the streets, on the tv, in films, even games have huge breasted curvy women.

Ugh, they think 12 yr olds should be allowed to see this?! :banghead: What planet are the people who regulate this stuff on!

[Hafsah]

LOL@East London freshies.. I saw that poster too.. if this was the sisters forum I'd compliment her on her legs :embar:

:outta:

But on a serious note, yeh the film ratings thing is disgusting sis.. You'd think a 12 would be clean.. but it's sex sex sex, everywhere, on the streets, on the tv, in films, even games have huge breasted curvy women.

Ugh, they think 12 yr olds should be allowed to see this?! :banghead: What planet are the people who regulate this stuff on!

and then they wonder why this country has such a high teen pregnancy rate :rolleyes:

[Arsalan]

and then they wonder why this country has such a high teen pregnancy rate :rolleyes:

whilst the teens may be seedy, the adults are firing blanks.......

Experts warn of fertility timebomb (http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59551)

[ponderingstar]

Agree on everything said so far. But i dont think women are naturally monogmous otherwise why would polgamy be allowed in islam if women didnt have some sort of natural trait that allowed them to accept polygomous marriages. ( this is completely off topic , i know )

Bro, women are naturally and islamically supposed to be with one man.

Men have a different nature which is why they are permitted to have polygamy.

However this is under some very strict rules and under the knowledge that nmarriage comes with huge responsibilities.

Women are jealous and possessive by nature also.

And we must remember that the prophet :saw: remained monogamous with his first wife until her death and after he married Aisha (pbuh) I believe (And please correct me if i am wrong) who were divorced, or widowed or who had political ties. Also the prophet :saw: opposed Hazrath Ali (PBUH) from taking a second wife during fatima's (Pbuh) lifetime.

I think men shoudl remember the nature and the essence of polygamy in Islam befor ethey get all gung ho about it ;) I am not talking about you brother, just some of the men on these boards think it is a requirement or a way to live life in a carefree manner when id o not think that was ever intended.

Men and women both have bad things in our nature which we must overcome to submit our wills to Allah.

And sorry for taking the thread further off topic... :embar:

In terms of public pornography, i think the internet is somehwat to blame because it seems everyone not just has instant access to pornography (as opposed to before it being a case of people having to go somewhere seedy to buy things) but also people who do not want to have access have it enforced upon them. If you type in the most innocent things in google sometimes the first link is frighteningly pornographic. that means young kids will see pornography really early. it's inevitable. ANd hence society is reflecting this new norm.

There's a part of me that just thinks: look i don't care if men look at whatever they want but 1. they shoudl keep it quiet and 2. they shoudl keep it away from the general public.

whats' wrong with that?

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Why not turn to the MPs you guys voted for, I would like to see what response you get? :rolleyes:

At the end of the day, if its going to be Muslims and other community members taking down this billboards and posters, its called self-reliancy ..something we need to work at.

[Flaming Dove]

The posters titled "Living TV - The L word" are advertising for
a lesbian show. The images are pornographic and feature people
in overt sexual poses that are clearly offensive to the public.




I would need to actually SEE that which you speak of
prior to making a decision on the merits or disdain I would award.

I will say this though, I was watching the Disney channel / Animal Planet tv show and the topic was about a contest to see which "family" would be able to adopt a particular dog.
There was the married couple, 4 male friends/student living together and then a Homosexual couple.
I found that very distasteful being on a childrens show.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

I would need to actually SEE that which you speak of
prior to making a decision on the merits or disdain I would award.

I will say this though, I was watching the Disney channel / Animal Planet tv show and the topic was about a contest to see which "family" would be able to adopt a particular dog.
There was the married couple, 4 male friends/student living together and then a Homosexual couple.
I found that very distasteful being on a childrens show.

Precisely, the problem is not with a bill board, but rather the whole system which has no moral or social values.

What we see around us are the disastrous consequences of freedom and its use (abuse) which is all ok, until proven that it infringes others freedom based on same secular capitalistic values...which wont happen, so we either live with it as participants and become liberaterians or become self-reliant building active communities morally rich who will not tolerate such obscenity at their doorstep.

[Flaming Dove]

Precisely, ... become self-reliant building active communities morally rich who will not tolerate such obscenity at their doorstep.

I am all for your suggestion but, WHERE in this world would that be able to occur ?

[Flaming Dove]

Bro, women are naturally and islamically supposed to be with one man.

Men have a different nature which is why they are permitted to have polygamy.

However this is under some very strict rules and under the knowledge that nmarriage comes with huge responsibilities.

Women are jealous and possessive by nature also.

polygamy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=polygamy) : marriage in which a spouse of either sex may have more than one mate at the same time -- compare POLYANDRY (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=polyandry), POLYGYNY (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=polygyny)


polygamy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=polygamy) existed in the early years of Mankind's history due to very few people comprising the group or clan. Thus, polygamy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=polygamy) ensured that many more offspring would be born to the clan.

It is so sad when Dogma & tradition overreach their boundaries and make a society unbalanced.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

I am all for your suggestion but, WHERE in this world would that be able to occur ?

This has happend within Muslim communities in various places around UK. Where streets were cleard off hookers, crack houses and places like Anne summers shut down due to joint community efforts. This seems to be the only way left to keep our doorsteps clean from western propogated trash.

[MG]

I saw a poster for that movie in East London, someone painted over her picture! Big up the East London Freshies! (and there's me spending half my time abusing them all)

of Mr and Mrs Smith? look like they painted over the wrong picture..........

[cruiser]

A very refreshing thread, congratulations on a call to action to halt offensive advertising within the boundaries of the law. Often, I have seen the first step advocated to be tearing down and destroying that which the particular community finds offensive. Unfortunately, that often has the reverse effect and gains some sympathy for the advertising company and whoever owns the billboards.The non-muslim community also finds this offensive. Some people are so innundated with this crap, it fails to even register until it gets real raunchy. Ultimately, we can all control this type of advertising by refusing to buy the products and services being offered.

[Flaming Dove]

This has happend within Muslim communities in various places around UK. Where streets were cleard off hookers, crack houses and places like Anne summers shut down due to joint community efforts. This seems to be the only way left to keep our doorsteps clean from western propogated trash.

Very good answer.
I only hope it was accomplished through non-violent means.
There is nothing more powerful on this planet than an individual willing to take a stand in telling the truth.

[Arsalan]

Actually in my locality the muslims and chrisitans worked together to peition the councel to stop a Ann summers shop being opened ( in an area where kids walk through every day and congregate) , but i dont know if it was a sucess, but it shows that religion and some degree of a sense of shame is alive in peoples hearts.

[Flaming Dove]

Actually in my locality the muslims and chrisitans worked together to peition the councel to stop a Ann summers shop being opened ( in an area where kids walk through every day and congregate) , but i dont know if it was a sucess, but it shows that religion and some degree of a sense of shame is alive in peoples hearts.

I am unfamilar with Ann Summers.

[MG]

i had a letter today from ASA, saying the following....


Thankyou for your recent email.

We are already investigating these advertisements on the basis that they are offensive and unsuitable for untargeted display. Your complaint will be added to our file . We shall let you know what we decide in due course.

Yours sincerely


Louise Hogan Maroney

Complaints Manager

[Chained_Water]

Still no reply here :(

[MG]

Still no reply here :(

probably in the post

[.: Rashid :.]

:salams

Erm, can anyone give a street address where they saw this? I (luckily) haven't seen one of these ads, and one of the fields is where you aw it...so I can't fill it in.

-Rashid786-

[*IslamicGirl*]

:salams

:start:

These billboard pics for the L word are disgusting :vomit:

Astaghfirullah!

Def gonna write a complaint InshaAllah
:ahb: What has this world come to??

:salams

[moshyman]

i had a letter today from ASA, saying the following....


Thankyou for your recent email.

We are already investigating these advertisements on the basis that they are offensive and unsuitable for untargeted display. Your complaint will be added to our file . We shall let you know what we decide in due course.

Yours sincerely


Louise Hogan Maroney

Complaints Manager

I got the same letter... pretty quick reply though...

[MG]

I got the same letter... pretty quick reply though...


yeah it was, they probably did get alot of complaints inshallah.

[moshyman]

yeah it was, they probably did get alot of complaints inshallah.

I wanna email them back and demand a personal response to all of my points... Although I'm yet to see the actual posters...

[MG]

I wanna email them back and demand a personal response to all of my points... Although I'm yet to see the actual posters...

oh u points down and stuff, excellent, in that case i would recommend you email them and ask for the personal response.

these looklike pre-written letters for everyone

[mouse]

Instead of handing out free condoms to kids.. maybe they should protect kids from constant uncontrolled exposure to sex, lesbianism, the idea of having multiple partners and so on.

Those ads have groups of three women etc all over each other.. it is just sickening that they can promote such behaviour and try to make it seem sexy and normal.

How can people NOT object to this being on our streets?!


i so agree with you.

[Chained_Water]

Still no letter!

I wrote em a proper letter too, annoyed!

Gonna resend it tonight when I get home inshaAllah.

[MG]

Still no letter!

I wrote em a proper letter too, annoyed!

Gonna resend it tonight when I get home inshaAllah.

lol, u go sis

[moshyman]

Still no letter!

I wrote em a proper letter too, annoyed!

Gonna resend it tonight when I get home inshaAllah.

Maybe they saw your name and thought... "nah"... :)

They saw my name and got scared and wrote a letter straight away...

[Chained_Water]

I think it may have been 'cuz I exceeded the word limit.. but it's not my fault their website is completely pants and didn't tell me that.

moshyman? LOL, yeh that's well scary :rolleyes:

[Flaming Dove]

:salams

Erm, can anyone give a street address where they saw this? I (luckily) haven't seen one of these ads, and one of the fields is where you aw it...so I can't fill it in.

-Rashid786-

Wouldn't that type of action be considered a "minor sin" ?
Surely, how could you respond as if you did indeed see when it is plain that you did not.
That would constitute a lie, wouldn't it ?

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:

:salams


If something reeks of dung and some one else said don't eat it, it's vile. Wouldn't you listen to them w/ tasting it yet you've smelt it? Of course you would.

Br Rashid's heard the outcry, he doesn't need to see one to realise how filthy it is, lemme say this:

It is the most disgusting and vile billboard advertisement i have seen in my life so far. Surely my word would count as something esp since my brother in Isalm would believe me InshaAllah?

Why should he damage his mind by looking at one of those pics anyways?

:salams

:salams

[.: Rashid :.]

:salams

Well said :up:

Just to add: I haven't seen this particular one, but in the past, I have seen other such ones, and I thought more of that one than the sisters/brother here have of this one. (did that make sense...? :scratch: ) So I'm sure this is much worse.

I understand what you mean. I considered that myself. Must you actually have had to have seen it? It's a requried field, and I want to fill it in with the intention of informing the people of where this advertisement is located. That is what I thought the field's purpose was. Whether I have actually seen it or not is irrelevant.

And it wouldn't be a minor sin if it were lying, it would be major. Islam does not provide room for so-called "white lies". One is not allowed to lie, even if it were to the devil.

-Rashid786-

[MG]

OK i had a decision from ASA today, its very long ,so ill write the major points up, a copy of the decsions will be put on their site on 27/07/05.


"In arriving at the decision, we have posed three questions: will the advert offend most people who see it: will it so deeply offend a few a few that their interests should prevail against the undoubted liberty of advertisers to reasonable freeexpression: should the unoffended majority be prevented from hearing what the advertisers want to say? Our answer to all three was negative.

Complaint NOT upheld (how predictable):

Living TV said the posters reflected the style and content of a TV programme about the lives and loves of a group of glamourous gay women. They believed the images were NOT gratuitous or explicit but referred to the sexual nature of the programme in a playful manner. Living TV argued that the images contained nothing that members of the public had not seen in posters before. While they appreciated that some people may have objected to the advertising of a homosexual TV programme, they did not believe the posters breached the Code on that point. Furthermore, Living Tv said they had deliberatley designed the posters to be understood by those already aware of homosexuality while excluding younger children :scratch:

Living TV said they had sought Copy Advice and conducted their own research before the campaign's final production. Their research showed that most people would see the posters as playful, entertaining and amusing. :eek:
Living TV said they had then instructed their contractors not to place the posters near schools or religious establishments.

(which is a lie cos the only reason i saw the poster was becos it was next to my son's school :eek3: )


The authority noted that Living TV had sought Copy Advice and taken care in the siting of the posters. It acknowledged that the posters had offended some people, neverthless, the authority considered that the images were not explicit :scratch: and accurately reflected the contents of the TV programme .

It concluded that the posters were unlikely to cause serious or widespread offence(somebody gimme a defintion of "serious" offence), or be seen as degrading to women :eek3: or unsuitable to be seen by children :wacko: ."


What a complete cop out :freedom:

[Hafsah]

i kno...esp the bit how the homesexual content won't be obvious to younger children ... could it get anymore obvious???



OK i had a decision from ASA today, its very long ,so ill write the major points up, a copy of the decsions will be put on their site on 27/07/05.

Complaint NOT upheld (how predictable):

Living TV said the posters reflected the style and content of a TV programme about the lives and loves of a group of glamourous gay women. They believed the images were NOT gratuitous or explicit but referred to the sexual nature of the programme in a playful manner. Living TV argued that the images contained nothing that members of the public had not seen in posters before. While they appreciated that some people may have objected to the advertising of a homosexual TV programme, they did not believe the posters breached the Code on that point. Furthermore, Living Tv said they had deliberatley designed the posters to be understood by those already aware of homosexuality while excluding younger children :scratch:

Living TV said they had sought Copy Advice and conducted their own research before the campaign's final production. Their research showed that most people would see the posters as playful, entertaining and amusing. :eek:
Living TV said they had then instructed their contractors not to place the posters near schools or religious establishments.

(which is a lie cos the only reason i saw the poster was becos it was next to my son's school :eek3: )


The authority noted that Living TV had sought Copy Advice and taken care in the siting of the posters. It acknowledged that the posters had offended some people, neverthless, the authority considered that the images were not explicit :scratch: and accurately reflected the contents of the TV programme .

It concluded that the posters were unlikely to cause serious or widespread offence(somebody gimme a defintion of "serious" offence), or be seen as degrading to women :eek3: or unsuitable to be seen by children :wacko: .


What a complete cop out :freedom:

[MG]

i kno...esp the bit how the homesexual content won't be obvious to younger children ... could it get anymore obvious???

they are complete and utter freaks, what a cop out, how lame is that response, anythign so they can make some money.

aaaaarrrrghhhh!!!!! im soooooo angry!!! :banghead:

[Chained_Water]

Grrrr! :mad:

That is so rubbish!

[MG]

Grrrr! :mad:

That is so rubbish!


exactly and were the ones in the dark ages......wat a joke.....so this is freedom is it....

[Voyager]

sorry if this is off topic, but i got tsoo peed off today, in the papers was a pic of a naked woman running down a road in manchester i think, she's been doing it for 3 fridays now, and each time the number of guys waiting for her to come increase, so disgusting!!! It also said how no one complained about it in the area or informed the police when she did this. So messed up!!! Imagine her jogging down your road at 12 noon with everyone waiting for her on the road.


So shocked that no one complained in the area :(
May Allah protect us from such disgusting shameless people

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:

:salams


Ewww what a health hazard, i sincerely hope it's not a bunch of OAP's oogling her or prob some net pervs in their underpants with a drumstick in their hands :freedom:

:salams

[MG]

sorry if this is off topic, but i got tsoo peed off today, in the papers was a pic of a naked woman running down a road in manchester i think, she's been doing it for 3 fridays now, and each time the number of guys waiting for her to come increase, so disgusting!!! It also said how no one complained about it in the area or informed the police when she did this. So messed up!!! Imagine her jogging down your road at 12 noon with everyone waiting for her on the road.


So shocked that no one complained in the area :(
May Allah protect us from such disgusting shameless people


i wanna where her mum and dad are :D

what about the freaks who walked naked in their hundreds!! recently, all mixed groups....of course!!!


so this is the freedom muslim women are missing out on........

May allah swt protect us.Ameen.

[Voyager]

yeah pooor muslimahs, they miss out on all sorts of stuff, fresh air, free soaps, shampoos :rolleyes:

[mouse]

sorry if this is off topic, but i got tsoo peed off today, in the papers was a pic of a naked woman running down a road in manchester i think, she's been doing it for 3 fridays now, and each time the number of guys waiting for her to come increase, so disgusting!!! It also said how no one complained about it in the area or informed the police when she did this. So messed up!!! Imagine her jogging down your road at 12 noon with everyone waiting for her on the road.



well you certainly seem to know a lot a bout it..just dont look
she probably is an attention seeker...sad person

[Voyager]

well you certainly seem to know a lot a bout it..just dont look
she probably is an attention seeker...sad person

it was in the paper, as i said! i'm not from the area either, or I would have definitely complained! messed up people

[aurorascopic]

i just recieved a reply from the advertising people that i complained to about the living tv adverts and..they said it doesn't breech their codes or something and they're not going to do anything about it!!!! *sobs*..im just so fed up now..honestly..i just hate this country..i know it may have one of my most decent governments around (to some extent) and everything but theres just such a huge lack of modesty, respect..and basically..decent morals!! whyy whyy can't they be civilised!!! eugh gawd..i can't wait to be independant when im older and have my own life..if i have the means i'd definitly move some place else..where there's a decent enough government and the people actually not only know of the word modesty but practice it! eugh..i never realised how vulgur people here were until i moved to a mixed school to do my 6th form..it's non unfirom as most 6th forms are and..eugh some of the clothes the girls wear..its foul, crude and disghusting..no respect for themselves!never mind each other (sorry for having a rant but i have to tell some decent people who understand) both boys and girls wearing pants down to their..gr argh and u can see their underwears! and i just find myself constantly walking with my head down.. *sobs* it just frustrates me and saddens me!whyyy whyyy argh i just dont understand this 'modern' culture..i just think its filthy..can't wait to go somewhere like..malaysia..although i think id have to learn malay to live there..

[Hafsah]

they got 646 complaints....

[MG]

its all about the money....

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:

:salams

Freedom of speech BS they call it

Those adverts were gross, apparently there's more than one, we have one near our neigbourhood and i cringe everytime i go past it.

It's tacky and distasteful bleugh

:salams

[Chained_Water]

they got 646 complaints....

:up:

I think it's time we bugger the ASA and start up a Muslim-DIY-Advertising Standards Agency ;)

[MG]

:up:

I think it's time we bugger the ASA and start up a Muslim-DIY-Advertising Standards Agency ;)


yeah, free tins of paint, ladders and brushes :D

[Chained_Water]

yeah, free tins of paint, ladders and brushes :D

Well if they aren't going to listen to the wishes of the public then then render themselves completely useless as an organisation.

So DIY-ASA it is :D

:mujahida:

[MG]

Well if they aren't going to listen to the wishes of the public then then render themselves completely useless as an organisation.

So DIY-ASA it is :D

:mujahida:



:badguy: :banan:

[.: Rashid :.]

i just recieved a reply from the advertising people that i complained to about the living tv adverts and..they said it doesn't breech their codes or something and they're not going to do anything about it!!!! *sobs*..im just so fed up now..honestly..i just hate this country..i know it may have one of my most decent governments around (to some extent) and everything but theres just such a huge lack of modesty, respect..and basically..decent morals!! whyy whyy can't they be civilised!!! eugh gawd..i can't wait to be independant when im older and have my own life..if i have the means i'd definitly move some place else..where there's a decent enough government and the people actually not only know of the word modesty but practice it! eugh..i never realised how vulgur people here were until i moved to a mixed school to do my 6th form..it's non unfirom as most 6th forms are and..eugh some of the clothes the girls wear..its foul, crude and disghusting..no respect for themselves!never mind each other (sorry for having a rant but i have to tell some decent people who understand) both boys and girls wearing pants down to their..gr argh and u can see their underwears! and i just find myself constantly walking with my head down.. *sobs* it just frustrates me and saddens me!whyyy whyyy argh i just dont understand this 'modern' culture..i just think its filthy..can't wait to go somewhere like..malaysia..although i think id have to learn malay to live there..

:) I know how you feel. I once shared the same sort of feelings...but...unfortunately...somehow...at the moment (insha'Allah) shaythaan is beating me. :2hammers: I just...don't have the same...:crying: Insha'Allah I'll come back :mujahida:

Malaysia, "surprisingly", is also quite dirty. Not as much as Britain, I don't think. But, there also...its all about money. They rely on their tourist industry. And that involves a lot of Western women lying naked on the beach...

-Rashid786-

[K@M]

OK, looks like they're not going to do anytinhg.

*grabs paint*

I'm thikning of making a hit squad of brothers who go around painting over these disgusting adverts. All team members would be under 10 years of age obviously so they cannot get arrested :p

[.: Rashid :.]

OK, looks like they're not going to do anytinhg.

*grabs paint*

I'm thikning of making a hit squad of brothers who go around painting over these disgusting adverts. All team members would be under 10 years of age obviously so they cannot get arrested :p

And of course so that they are not corrupted as they take aim :|

-Rashid-

[Voyager]

OK, looks like they're not going to do anytinhg.

*grabs paint*

I'm thikning of making a hit squad of brothers who go around painting over these disgusting adverts. All team members would be under 10 years of age obviously so they cannot get arrested :p

nice one :up: inshaAllah you find some brother or sister who's under 10 bros u can borrow for the day :)

[K@M]

And of course so that they are not corrupted as they take aim :|

-Rashid-

Don't worry, thats been taken care of, I'll tel them not to look, just chuck, and if they miss, chuck again.

[Mujaheedah]

Lol those are the free women of the modern world, you sisters are way too oppressed. If Islam means living in the stone ages, then I'm a caveman!

animals only act like that that kind of behaviour is not that that normal civilised people do i mean for everyone to see, just disgusting

[.: Rashid :.]

Don't worry, thats been taken care of, I'll tel them not to look, just chuck, and if they miss, chuck again.

lol. You'll end up covering the entire town in paint :| Meh, if you throw a 1000 darts one's bound to hit the target :up:

-Rashid-

[mummani]

Agree on everything said so far. But i dont think women are naturally monogmous otherwise why would polgamy be allowed in islam if women didnt have some sort of natural trait that allowed them to accept polygomous marriages. ( this is completely off topic , i know )

So what are you trying to say???

Are you saying its a womens fault that men are allowed to have more than one wife in Islam???

I cant see how this is at all true.

Isnt it true that many women who are married to a men with other wives, has had little or no choice if the "offer" is made.

I would appreciate an explaination on what your really mean about women having " a natrural trait " that allows them to accept polygomous marriages??

[.: Rashid :.]

Women's fault??? Its simple. There are more women than men on Earth. Thus, for every single woman to be in a chaste relationship, and have a husband to support them and to love them, they need to learn to share. There simply aren't enough of us to have a 1-on-1 relationship with all you of :D

-Rashid-

[mummani]

Women's fault??? Its simple. There are more women than men on Earth. Thus, for every single woman to be in a chaste relationship, and have a husband to support them and to love them, they need to learn to share. There simply aren't enough of us to have a 1-on-1 relationship with all you of :D

-Rashid-


Thats a poor reason if you ask me.

It so happens in most other societies has a 1-1 , so why not in our own Muslim societies.
After all we all have many more children than most other westerners, so why the shortage then??

And this comment of your does not explain my initial question.

[.: Rashid :.]

Thats a poor reason if you ask me.

Explain why. I'm asking you.

It so happens in most other societies has a 1-1 , so why not in our own Muslim societies.

Erm, actually your wrong. I actually said the whole Earth ;) In Britain, women outnumber men by 8 million. And the UK is a developed nation, with an equal population distribution. (dunno why that's relevant...can imagine it being brought up by someone though)

After all we all have many more children than most other westerners, so why the shortage then??

Because we have both boys, and girls. We tend to have more girls than boys, I guess :shrug: I, personally, can't explain the reason for their being more women than men on Earth, but it happens. Just look around the world...

And this comment of your does not explain my initial question.

Which was?

-Rashid

[mummani]

Explain why. I'm asking you.



Erm, actually your wrong. I actually said the whole Earth ;) In Britain, women outnumber men by 8 million. And the UK is a developed nation, with an equal population distribution. (dunno why that's relevant...can imagine it being brought up by someone though)



Because we have both boys, and girls. We tend to have more girls than boys, I guess :shrug: I, personally, can't explain the reason for their being more women than men on Earth, but it happens. Just look around the world...



Which was?

-Rashid


Sorry , I will rephrase what I was trying to ask.

Abdulmajid said " But I dont think women are naturally Monogomous"

I was asking why he came to that conclusion?.


"if women didnt have some sort of natural trait that allowed them to accept
pologomous marriages"

I fail to see how WOMEN have any predisposion in this regard.
Are you saying that we are born to accept more than one life partner.
Are you saying its in our genes?

I cant quite see your point on this.

Of course there are, and have been for a long time , more females in the world, but this does not account for the your theory that we are willing, or
going to accept more than one male in our lifetime.

It would not be desirable for most females, In my humble opinion.
I would like to see any females views on this as well.

[.: Rashid :.]

Fine. Shall we make a poll, and see how many Muslimahs on this site would be willing to share a husband?

-Rashid

[mummani]

Fine. Shall we make a poll, and see how many Muslimahs on this site would be willing to share a husband?

-Rashid

That was exactly what my point was, women do NOT want to share their husbands.

[.: Rashid :.]

That was exactly what my point was, women do NOT want to share their husbands.

No, lets make a poll first. Lets ask the women of Ummah, shall we?

No, you do it. I can't be bothered

Make sure you keep the question accurate though:

"If there were no other men available on the planet, would you be willing to share a husband, with another Muslim woman?"

Do you agree with the above question? If not, say so...we'll see if we can agree to another question. (i dunno if the "no other men available" clause was part of your point..was mine)

-Rashid

[MG]

u guys are crazy :afro:

[.: Rashid :.]

u guys are crazy :afro:

:wacko:

-Rashid @)

[Tony]

Rashid, where do you get your facts from, you say Britain has 8 million more women than men, this isnt so, actually there are more men than women.
Check the link



http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

[.: Rashid :.]

Rashid, where do you get your facts from, you say Britain has 8 million more women than men, this isnt so, actually there are more men than women.
Check the link



http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

A lecture/Q&A by Dr. Zakir Naik :embar:

But anyway, on the CIA site, it says

total population: 0.98 male(s)/female (2005 est.)

Does that not mean that there are more females than males? I didn't really get it :embar:

-Rashid

[Tony]

You are looking at the overall figure, up to age 65 its even, after 65 you get more women as men die younger, it pushes the average up.

If that Doctor guy said there was 8 millionmore women than men in Britain he was wrong

[.: Rashid :.]

You are looking at the overall figure, up to age 65 its even, after 65 you get more women as men die younger, it pushes the average up.

If that Doctor guy said there was 8 millionmore women than men in Britain he was wrong

Well, he did say this some time ago :embar:

Plus, the CIA factbook says its an estimation, its one source. You should check other one's too, just to be sure. ;)

Meh, eitherway, worldwide, there are still more women than men...

-Rashid

[abdusamad]

A muslim should love another muslim, so either way a muslimah should love another muslimah, but each wife would want her own husband. That is why each wife should live in a different house, not all in one, you are looking for chaos everyday . :p jealousy is a natural characteristic for a female :p :up:

[abdusamad]

i am replying on the post waaaaaaaaaay up there which rashid posted ;)

[Tony]

Theres nothing wrong with those ads.
If you cant see one without getting worked up into a lather then I suggest you take a cold shower, perverts.

[.: Rashid :.]

Theres nothing wrong with those ads.
If you cant see one without getting worked up into a lather then I suggest you take a cold shower, perverts.

The ads are obscene, and placed in front of schools for infants

Without getting worked up? How do you mean, exactly?

Perverts? The thread starter was a female, are you suggesting that she was attracted to the woman in the poster? :eek3: And no stupid jokes about the L word :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'd like you to calrify what you mean by "worked up into a lather".

If you mean horny, then that is the entire purpose of the poster. To arouse men. Sex sells :rolleyes: Men aroused. Men notice poster/programme. Men watch programme. Perverts get money.

-Rashid

[AbuMubarak]

kafirs want nudity, they have no modesty, they have no faith, they believe they evolved from animals and that suits them just fine

[.: Rashid :.]

kafirs want nudity, they have no modesty, they have no faith, they believe they evolved from animals and that suits them just fine

Thats not fair. THESE kaffirs want all of the above, they fit your description above. Not ALL kaffirs. There are *some...or even many that don't, that are modest, etc

-Rashid :)

[Voyager]

Theres nothing wrong with those ads.
If you cant see one without getting worked up into a lather then I suggest you take a cold shower, perverts.

a very typical response, get your facts straight, you've obviously missed the whole point of the thread and what has been discussed, else you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment

[MG]

Theres nothing wrong with those ads.
If you cant see one without getting worked up into a lather then I suggest you take a cold shower, perverts.

perverts? i hope u dont have children, cos for a father who doesnt mind his kids seeing porn displayed on their way to school....i feel sorry for them.....or is that part of their education to u?

[*IslamicGirl*]

Theres nothing wrong with those ads.
If you cant see one without getting worked up into a lather then I suggest you take a cold shower, perverts.

Believe me the ads are a big turn off, yet if a few people want to screw each other for the cameras then do it, but why place filthy ads where kids can see and wonder what the heck they represent?

You're not a regular buyer of 'The Sun' newspaper are you :eek3:

[Mujaheedah]

So what are you trying to say???

Are you saying its a womens fault that men are allowed to have more than one wife in Islam???

I cant see how this is at all true.

Isnt it true that many women who are married to a men with other wives, has had little or no choice if the "offer" is made.

I would appreciate an explaination on what your really mean about women having " a natrural trait " that allows them to accept polygomous marriages??

dont agree with the natural trait thing but its basicaly mens fault cuz theyre the ones who arnt satisfied with one person, well some of em. but its allowed in Islam and for a good reason cuz it stops zina and illegal actions from occuring, i mean isnt it better for the man to get married to the woman instead of having an affair which then leads to so much bigger problems, and then again men arnt allowed to get married to more than one if they cant support all his wives and treat them fairly.

[Mujaheedah]

Fine. Shall we make a poll, and see how many Muslimahs on this site would be willing to share a husband?

-Rashid

truth is that although its accepted in Islam most women have a tendency to be jealous so lets see how that goes.

[.: Rashid :.]

truth is that although its accepted in Islam most women have a tendency to be jealous so lets see how that goes.

Would you?

-Rashid

[MG]

if the women feels jealous it would be beacuse she feels she is being treated unequally compared to the next wife, the onus is on the husband to not let the wives feel like this, it is the husband who has to make sure the wives do not feel like this, this is why alot of thought and plan must go into marrying more than once as

the husband has a heavy responsiblity towards the wives, he must be emotionally strong to be able to marry four wives and deal with them in the islamic manner, is in make the ALL feel equal as the next, be able to not have a favourite etc.

[.: Rashid :.]

if the women feels it would be beacuse she feels she is being treated unequally compared to the next wife, the onus is on the husband to not let the wives feel like this, it is the husband who has to make sure the wives do not feel like this, this is why alot of thought and plan must go into marrying more than once as

the husband has a heavy responsiblity towards the wives, he must be emotionally strong to be able to marry four wives and deal with them in the islamic manner, is in make the ALL feel equal as the next, be able to not have a favourite etc.

I understand this...:)

But imagine your husband was able to treat you completely equal to someone else. And he asked your permission to marry this woman, would you permit him?

What if it was the other way around. A man was already married, and he proposed to you. Would you accept?(he is able to treat you equally etc)

-Rashid

[MG]

I understand this...:)

But imagine your husband was able to treat you completely equal to someone else. And he asked your permission to marry this woman, would you permit him?

What if it was the other way around. A man was already married, and he proposed to you. Would you accept?(he is able to treat you equally etc)

-Rashid

i personally would not be able to, even if he treated me great, i dont know how i would be able to get past the fact that their is someone else in our lives.

I admire and have alot of repsect for the women who are able to do this.

[.: Rashid :.]

i personally would not be able to, even if he treated me great, i dont know how i would be able to get past the fact that their is someone else in our lives.

I admire and have alot of repsect for the women who are able to do this.

OK :)

-Rashid

[EducateMe]

Do any of you think that perhaps the majority view on morality should be at the core of national policy on issues such as this? I for one have no problem with images, and certainley no problem with Lesbianism or anything else.

I understand the moral objections some people might have, but that is your own personal view. This is a democracy and the majority rules, that majority being largley in favour of a liberal, open and uncensored society where people are free to act how they choose. Further, trying to impose your moral values on others is route one to hatred, I have met some racist people in my time and can well imagine the standard repsonse "well if they don't like it why don't they **** off back to their own country". Hateful and bigotted people of course, and yes probably they would be just as hateful whatever the situation, but the constant moral lecturering of vocal muslim campaigners simply alientates muslims from the wider community and makes the more moderate amongst us question why an imigrant community is attempting to dictate to the majority in a democracy.

When all is said and done there are many things that offend many people, but the state dosent intervene. For example I, as a non-muslim, find the Hijab or Burkha and other (often imposed) restrictions on Muslim women offensive, however in a free society this is their choice (one would hope) and therefore none of my business. We dont preach to you, so dont preach to us.

[.: Rashid :.]

Do any of you think that perhaps the majority view on morality should be at the core of national policy on issues such as this? I for one have no problem with images, and certainley no problem with Lesbianism or anything else.

I understand the moral objections some people might have, but that is your own personal view. This is a democracy and the majority rules, that majority being largley in favour of a liberal, open and uncensored society where people are free to act how they choose. Further, trying to impose your moral values on others is route one to hatred, I have met some racist people in my time and can well imagine the standard repsonse "well if they don't like it why don't they **** off back to their own country". Hateful and bigotted people of course, and yes probably they would be just as hateful whatever the situation, but the constant moral lecturering of vocal muslim campaigners simply alientates muslims from the wider community and makes the more moderate amongst us question why an imigrant community is attempting to dictate to the majority in a democracy.

When all is said and done there are many things that offend many people, but the state dosent intervene. For example I, as a non-muslim, find the Hijab or Burkha and other (often imposed) restrictions on Muslim women offensive, however in a free society this is their choice (one would hope) and therefore none of my business. We dont preach to you, so dont preach to us.

But the point is, this is a democracy. How do you know what the majority thinks? Minorities can try to persuade the majority to come over to their side, how can they do this without being vocal?

We're not an immigrant minority, I'm confident everyone here was born in Britain :) And we're not dictating how the majority should live in Britain, we're invoking our democratic rights ;)

My argument made a lot more sense in my mind. Sorry if that doesn't make any sense :embar:

-Rashid

[Hafsah]

Do any of you think that perhaps the majority view on morality should be at the core of national policy on issues such as this? I for one have no problem with images, and certainley no problem with Lesbianism or anything else.
what is the majority view on morality? its ok to run around naked...sexually explicit content from the billboards..magazines and tv?? the majority of people who would have objected to the ads may have been muslims...but i can guarentee that a lot of non-muslim british people objected aswell....ppl at the busstop with their kids - at the end of the day they might not mind it...but they don't won't their kids to be subjected to it



This is a democracy and the majority rules, that majority being largley in favour of a liberal, open and uncensored society where people are free to act how they choose.
so if i choose to openly object to pornography plastered all over my city...thats my right...and no one should critisize me or object to me raising my voice
this 'liberal..open...uncensored society' mentality is one of the downfalls of this country..cos when people have no sense of morality...thats when we get high rape figures...paedophilia...child abuse...kids as young as 10 pregnant (now i'm not saying muslims are perfect and these things don't happen in so called muslim countries...but it is much more prevalent in the west) ... why does a 11 year old child feel the need to have sex with his 7yr old sister??? i'm guessing he doesn't know what sex is or what it means...but he sees the actions everywhere...'everyone is doing it' (literally) so why doesn't he see what all the fuss is about? my sisters friend is a primary school teacher...she said the lil kids...in year 1 and 2...lie on top of each of simulating sex???? absolutely disgusting! and the worst thing is they don't even know what they are doing - yet this is what they see when they put on the TV..when they're walkin home from school...what has happened to innocense?? its gone into the bin with our sense of morality..in exchange for liberalism

Further, trying to impose your moral values on others is route one to hatred, I have met some racist people in my time and can well imagine the standard repsonse "well if they don't like it why don't they **** off back to their own country". Hateful and bigotted people of course, and yes probably they would be just as hateful whatever the situation, but the constant moral lecturering of vocal muslim campaigners simply alientates muslims from the wider community and makes the more moderate amongst us question why an imigrant community is attempting to dictate to the majority in a democracy.
the immigrant community in this country accounts for something like 6% of the population...under 1% of that are muslim...and there is a growing number of british white born muslims..so lets say the muslim community in britain accounts for 1% of the population...are we really that threatening that you feel that we are dictating to the majority?? unless you live in the city...most white-non-muslim british people probably haven't even met a muslim...let alone know what their beliefs are (and probably havent even heard our so-called moral voice box)..



For example I, as a non-muslim, find the Hijab or Burkha and other (often imposed) restrictions on Muslim women offensive, however in a free society this is their choice (one would hope) and therefore none of my business. .
why do you find it offensive? is someone asking you to cover up? is someone asking your mother...daughter..sister...wife...friends to cover up? what restrictions on muslim women?
i, as a muslim, find it extremely offensive the way some women dress, degrading women ...as if we are just sexual objects for men to stare and play with, why do women dress like that? cos men like their women to look all sexy..most of these designers are men...doesn't take much to see how the men in this so called liberal..free society dictate how their women dress. I would find it extremely offensive if i was expected to dress in a certain way so a man feels happy...i dress for myself..and not to be put on show in the meat market...and as a man how does it make you feel? do you feel happy when other men look at your mother...daughter...sister and wife with desire? if thats what you call freedom...you can shove it...

We dont preach to you, so dont preach to us.
you don't preach to us? well sorry...cos i for one am sick and tired of people telling me how i should think...how i should react to when ppl are attacking my brothers and sisters around the world...how i should react when people are demonising muslims everyday in the media...how i'm expected to justify how i'm dressed.....western society doesn't preach??? puh-lease!

[EducateMe]

Ok, thats a lot to go with.. let me answer a few points if I can. Firstly I find the covering of women offensive as it goes against the cultural and moral values I grew up with, much like the bareing of flesh may do for you. From my own perspective it is offensive as the women of this nation fought long and hard to gain the freedom to act dress and behave as they choose and not be shunned and despised as by a moralising society. And my girlfriend regularly wears clothes which i find too revealing and which make me jealous but I wouldnt dream of telling her not to, so i neither want her to dress that way for my edification nor do i have any say in her choice of clothes, thats the whole point. All that said, I keep the fact that i find muslim women undercover offensive to myself as i recognize the personal nature of that opinion.

As for the age old decadant west poluting our minds, I agree with you, our society leaves a lot to be desired in many, many respects. But to my mind that is the price of freedom, in a totalitarean dictatorship like Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia people things that we're deemed to be not in the common good could be controlled, unfortunatley this is what the leaders deem to not be in the common good. You can see an example of this in modern day iran where a dictatorial guardian council of Aytolla's blocks the reforms a majority of young people want. So, again, freedom comes at a cost. Nobody said democracy was perfect, its just the only government system i know of that prevents the widespread abuse of indivdual rights. All im saying is if you want to enjoy the right to express you religion then you should accept that other wish to enjoy the right to publish and sell pornography or produce titlating television programs, thats the society we live in.

On the point of preaching and the moral outrage of a muslim minority, this is a perception im talking about. I think media coverage of Islam is shameful, too much negativity obscuring what (from my experience of living in Bradford and having many Muslim friends) can be a beautiful, poetic and inspiring religion. However, when people feel as though they are being preached to, told their way of life is decadent, wrong and against the will of God it generally annoys them, probably just as much as when none muslims do it you (which im sure they do, i take back the "we dont preach to you" comment which was probably ill advised).

What im saying is this is the society that generations of British people have built, and most of us are very proud of it, despite its defficiencies. I dont like being told how to live my life any more than you do, and when i am i find it offensive. I cant help feeling that an immigrant community has an obligation to adapt to the customs and ways of their host society, if they want to be accepted by it that is. Maybe this is racist, I dont honestly know. All i know is how it makes me feel when someone tells me my whole way of life is wrong and dispicable, and says my country is sick, disgusting and imoral, and thats angry.

[.: Rashid :.]

I cant help feeling that an immigrant community has an obligation to adapt to the customs and ways of their host society, if they want to be accepted by it that is. Maybe this is racist, I dont honestly know. All i know is how it makes me feel when someone tells me my whole way of life is wrong and dispicable, and says my country is sick, disgusting and imoral, and thats angry.

We're not an immigrant community, like I said, most were born here. :)

And it is our democratic right to speak out against the faults of the society we live in. Why is a native allowed to critisise their own society, but not someone who's parents migrated here? :confused:

-Rashid

[EducateMe]

Sorry Rashis i missed your original response, was responding to Hafsah... Yes of course third and even fourth generation British Muslims are as British as me, especially when you consider Britains role in the history of Pakistan and India in particular. The Islamic culture however is not native to these islands and as such a new cultural value system is bound to be at odds with the established norms of the society. I guess what im saying is pick your battles, sure you have every right to protest, on any issue, thats one of the greatest freedoms of our society, but you must also conceed any protest is judged by the court of public opinion, which i feel looks unfavourably on these kind of moral points.

[Hafsah]

I cant help feeling that an immigrant community has an obligation to adapt to the customs and ways of their host society, if they want to be accepted by it that is. Maybe this is racist.

intergration is such a funny thing...you have the asians and blacks who think they are as british as british gets......but do you know what? they will never be accepted as being 'british' cos lets face it they're not white ...

and while we're talking about the 'immigrant community'....most muslims in this country are 2nd generation or white (*shock horror*) and english as you AND muslims - and like all muslims they stick to their values - so what about them..if the english people in my family don't want their daughters to run around half naked and don't want to see porn on the billboards..what should they do...go back to where they came from?maybe we should deport them from london back to where they came from...up north:rolleyes: ?

has an obligation to adapt to the customs and ways of their host society, if they want to be accepted by it that is
ironic that is.... when english people move abroad..they have their little english communities...can hardly speak any of the local language or take part in their local customs and traditions...yet when people come to england..we're expected to be 'english personified' ... when the 'british empire' colonised the world ... they took 'britishness' with them and hardly adapted to the local cultures and traditions... :rolleyes:

[EducateMe]

In addition to my previous response I'll elaborate a little further for your benefit Hafsah...

What im talking about is PERCEPTIONS of the Muslims community, and at a time when this is hugley important. In many countries around the world the recent events may well have led to a widspread, perhaps violent, backlash against ordinary Muslim people. With the BNP and others still preaching hatred to young white people this is a dangerous time for our society, a danger i feel acutley living in one of the largest centres of Muslim population in the UK (Bradford). I dont want to see a rift grow between Muslims and other British people, and in my opinion if Muslims try to say that aspects of our society are imoral and wrong, however justified they may be by the teachings of Islam, they risk alienating themselves from a large number of people who frankly rather enjoy a society in which they can express their sexuality in freedom. This freedom is massivley important in my view and whether it be Catholic, Muslim, Protestant or any other group dictating to the rest of us on how we should behave i react strongly against it. I i want to sleep around, have threesomes, go naked on a beach, take drugs or whatever it happens to be thats my choice (not that i do, but you take me point) thats what liberty means.

You have every right to object to this, but again, in terms of public PERCEPTION its, frankly "them Muslims telling us how to live again, who do they think they are?!" which is a bad thing, i wish many people could be more considered, but they arent..... At the end of the day you must know that this kind of thing annoys a lot of people, and lets face facts if it was the other way around and i was out throwing paint on Mosque posters and bombaring Imams with letters of complaint because I objected to the Hijab id be seen as a racist. People feel afraid to critisise Muslims for fear of being called racists, it isnt racism to say "this is my culture and i dont want to change it", not in my eyes anyway.

[Hafsah]

ok..i do agree with you in that the perception that a lot of nonmuslims have about muslims is very bad...and not much is done to improve it

however, i don't think intergration is the key...like i said in my previous post...no matter how much people intergrate into this society...no matter how much we try to waterdown our religion and make it more 'acceptable' to this society ...the fact of the matter is..we will never been seen as british

a lot of attempts we do make..via the media are totally misinterpreted..or put on the grave yard slot ....i can honestly say i've only seen two programmes on british television which did justice to my religion..and that was a short series the BBC did about islaam a few years back and a series that channel 4 did on hajj (pilgrimage a few years back aswell)....our statements are misinterpreted to make us look like the 'baddies'...the most moderate of the moderates (mcb..isb) who have made their upmost effort to make muslims intergrate society are now demonised ...yes the same ppl who said its ok to fight muslims in afghanistan!so what hope do the rest of us have? us muslims are losing the battle with the media...who everyday show us in a bad light ...on a personal level...i'm sure there are lots of muslims out there..including myself..who get on with their everyday life who try to represent islaam in a positive light .. and its a shame as more muslims who do make a positive contribution to society yet don't give up their islaamic lifestyle and represented in the media...but i guess that would be askin too much :rolleyes:

i feel that theres a lot of pressure on muslims to justify our every action ...why did that muslim say that...and why did he do that? but the fact of the matter is...and this may sound harsh...but you will never understand...how could you understand why a women CHOOSES to cover herself from head to toe out of her love for her God and religion? how could you understand why a young man would CHOOSE to leave everything he has in this country to go and fight abroad for the sake of his God? no matter how much we try and explain...it just won't and can't make sense to you ... because you don't know of the love a muslim has for their religion and God- and personally i think this is what scares non-muslims the most


In addition to my previous response I'll elaborate a little further for your benefit Hafsah...

What im talking about is PERCEPTIONS of the Muslims community, and at a time when this is hugley important. In many countries around the world the recent events may well have led to a widspread, perhaps violent, backlash against ordinary Muslim people. With the BNP and others still preaching hatred to young white people this is a dangerous time for our society, a danger i feel acutley living in one of the largest centres of Muslim population in the UK (Bradford). I dont want to see a rift grow between Muslims and other British people, and in my opinion if Muslims try to say that aspects of our society are imoral and wrong, however justified they may be by the teachings of Islam, they risk alienating themselves from a large number of people who frankly rather enjoy a society in which they can express their sexuality in freedom. This freedom is massivley important in my view and whether it be Catholic, Muslim, Protestant or any other group dictating to the rest of us on how we should behave i react strongly against it. I i want to sleep around, have threesomes, go naked on a beach, take drugs or whatever it happens to be thats my choice (not that i do, but you take me point) thats what liberty means.

You have every right to object to this, but again, in terms of public PERCEPTION its, frankly "them Muslims telling us how to live again, who do they think they are?!" which is a bad thing, i wish many people could be more considered, but they arent..... At the end of the day you must know that this kind of thing annoys a lot of people, and lets face facts if it was the other way around and i was out throwing paint on Mosque posters and bombaring Imams with letters of complaint because I objected to the Hijab id be seen as a racist. People feel afraid to critisise Muslims for fear of being called racists, it isnt racism to say "this is my culture and i dont want to change it", not in my eyes anyway.

[.: Rashid :.]

In addition to my previous response I'll elaborate a little further for your benefit Hafsah...

What im talking about is PERCEPTIONS of the Muslims community, and at a time when this is hugley important. In many countries around the world the recent events may well have led to a widspread, perhaps violent, backlash against ordinary Muslim people. With the BNP and others still preaching hatred to young white people this is a dangerous time for our society, a danger i feel acutley living in one of the largest centres of Muslim population in the UK (Bradford). I dont want to see a rift grow between Muslims and other British people, and in my opinion if Muslims try to say that aspects of our society are imoral and wrong, however justified they may be by the teachings of Islam, they risk alienating themselves from a large number of people who frankly rather enjoy a society in which they can express their sexuality in freedom. This freedom is massivley important in my view and whether it be Catholic, Muslim, Protestant or any other group dictating to the rest of us on how we should behave i react strongly against it. I i want to sleep around, have threesomes, go naked on a beach, take drugs or whatever it happens to be thats my choice (not that i do, but you take me point) thats what liberty means.

You have every right to object to this, but again, in terms of public PERCEPTION its, frankly "them Muslims telling us how to live again, who do they think they are?!" which is a bad thing, i wish many people could be more considered, but they arent..... At the end of the day you must know that this kind of thing annoys a lot of people, and lets face facts if it was the other way around and i was out throwing paint on Mosque posters and bombaring Imams with letters of complaint because I objected to the Hijab id be seen as a racist. People feel afraid to critisise Muslims for fear of being called racists, it isnt racism to say "this is my culture and i dont want to change it", not in my eyes anyway.

I don't think thats racism, but we have the right to critise your ideas, and your culture, just as you have every right to critise the ideology of Islam.

As for the rift between Muslims and non-Muslims, and violence breaking out, it already exists. And honestly, I don't really care if there's violence between Muslims and the BNP. Muslims aren't going to stop preaching Islam out of fear of a few bigots. Allah said to enjoin what is good, and forbid what is wrong, and we must obey that command.

Also, if a Muslim sees a wrong/evil, first he should stop it with his hand, if he can not, then with his mouth, and if that fails, then he must hate it with his heart.

-Rashid

[EducateMe]

Hafsah

feel that theres a lot of pressure on muslims to justify our every action ...why did that muslim say that...and why did he do that? but the fact of the matter is...and this may sound harsh...but you will never understand...how could you understand why a women CHOOSES to cover herself from head to toe out of her love for her God and religion? how could you understand why a young man would CHOOSE to leave everything he has in this country to go and fight abroad for the sake of his God? no matter how much we try and explain...it just won't and can't make sense to you ... because you don't know of the love a muslim has for their religion and God- and personally i think this is what scares non-muslims the most

I'm not naive enough to not understand the passions of humanity, they can be stirred by so many things and for a person of religion God is the highest passion. I actually believe in God myself, although I would place my spirtuality closer to the Buddhist or Pagan belief systems and in a vision of a power that runs through all life and holds all existence in harmony and balance. Violence, in all its forms, is abhorent to me and to my view of God. This is my whole point, if you feel Allah wills you to kill British or American soldiers you are wrong, and many Muslims would agree, i know this from personal experience. It is a Muslims duty to fight for the oppressed against the oppresor, but who are the oppressors, many would say Al Qaeda, the Taliban and the Bath Party of Iraq, or indeed the Aytollas of Iran, the Sheikes of Saudi Arabia etc, etc. Using Islam to justify a political view is so dangerous it actually terfies me, preciscley because I DO understand what passions religion can raise. The fact that you seem to support this scares me, as if the considered opinion of (i hope) a moderate muslim is in support of Jihad against the west then we have a problem. If you genuinley feel that Allah is telling you the war against the west is justified then you are a truley misguided person, why would God want war to escolate and widen, what purpose does this serve?

Rashid
Also, if a Muslim sees a wrong/evil, first he should stop it with his hand, if he can not, then with his mouth, and if that fails, then he must hate it with his heart.

Again, imposition of a view, whether or not you feel it is your duty, is against the customs and culture of this nation. This is a difficulty you as a Muslim must come to terms with, not that I must accomodate for your benefit. That sounds harsh but we both know thats the truth. I dont pretend it isnt hard to be both British and a muslim but that is the life your parents (or grandparents) chose, you cant expect Britain to change its whole moral outlook and culture to avoid offending you, surley?

[.: Rashid :.]

Again, imposition of a view, whether or not you feel it is your duty, is against the customs and culture of this nation. This is a difficulty you as a Muslim must come to terms with, not that I must accomodate for your benefit. That sounds harsh but we both know thats the truth. I dont pretend it isnt hard to be both British and a muslim but that is the life your parents (or grandparents) chose, you cant expect Britain to change its whole moral outlook and culture to avoid offending you, surley?

Thats my point, we must stop it with our hands. And if that fails, then we stop it with our mouths (like we are now) and if that fails, we'll hate it with our hearts ;)

And I don't. Its a decision my parent(s) made, and I always "have a go" at them for it.

I don't plan on living here all my life :) Insha'Allah.

-Rashid

[Hafsah]

The fact that you seem to support this scares me, as if the considered opinion of (i hope) a moderate muslim is in support of Jihad against the west then we have a problem. If you genuinley feel that Allah is telling you the war against the west is justified then you are a truley misguided person, why would God want war to escolate and widen, what purpose does this serve?



i didn;t say jihad against the west anywhere....i don't agree with killing/bombing civilians...women...children and any other non-military target...if a muslim goes to fight where his brothers and sisters and being fought...thats exactly the same as american/british troops going to fight wherever they feel they have to unleash their version of democracy and ridding the world of 'terrorism'

[Mujaheedah]

Would you?

-Rashid

I guess i dont know until i do get married i cant say if i will or will not, but right now i just dont think i would be able to. I mean even if it's allowed i'll just find a husband thats happy with one wife and if things change well then i'll think about it. http://www.ummah.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[EducateMe]

Hafsah,

i didn;t say jihad against the west anywhere....i don't agree with killing/bombing civilians...women...children and any other non-military target...if a muslim goes to fight where his brothers and sisters and being fought...thats exactly the same as american/british troops going to fight wherever they feel they have to unleash their version of democracy and ridding the world of 'terrorism'

The democratically elected government of this country decided to go to war with, lets face facts, was a brutal and horrific set of criminals, in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes the west's interest are criminal, its about stealing the oil from Sadam. So one set of criminals is fighting another set of criminals for money. And in the middle of it is another set of criminals who are using the Holy Quran and misinterpreting its message of peace to profit from this war. You are now saying that in a war for money and power between criminals you must choose the side who are muslims and support it?

Unless of course you think the ideology of Al Quaeda, to wage a holy war on America and its allies, is a just and noble cause, on this point i think you are listening to the devil and not Allah, God, Jehova, Shiva or any recognizable force for good, peace and justice. Which profit ever said that to provoke war and incite hatred was God's will? I wont mince my words on this point, for the good of humanity its the duty of all people to fight evil. If you cant see evil when its in front of you then you are dancing with the devil. It between you and your God i suppose. My consiouence is clear.