Clash of Civilisations - Islam and the West

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Assalam Alaykum

Just wondering where everyone stands on this.

[moshyman]

Depends on who or what we define as a CIVILisation...

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Islam and the west

The poll is there now :)

[Salman Al-Farsi]

forum is really quite tody and I havent slept in last 45 hours, so thought do something constructive.

:D

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Would be nice if people state why they voted for what they voted. :)

[MG]

this is defo a case of the WEST clashing with ISLAM, in there own words (actually a U.S diplomat) "Islam is taking over the world and we need to put a stop to it!!!"

dope.


If this aint a fight against islam then i dont know wat is, they invading only islamic countries, they stop muslims from wearing hijab, they arrest , kill and torutre innnocent muslims.

bottom line, they know Islam is the correct way,and their way of dealing with it is, killing the muslims.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

this is defo a case of the WEST clashing with ISLAM, in there own words (actually a U.S diplomat) "Islam is aking over the world and we need to put a stop to it"

dope.

exactly, and not to mention the fact that Islam came to dominate the world :)

[MG]

exactly, and not to mention the fact that Islam came to dominate the world :)

and Islam will inshallah dominate, they might be winning the battles but the WAR will be won by the most pure, the most powerful, the true religion..ISLAM :)

bring it on!

[Salman Al-Farsi]

and Islam will inshallah dominate, they might be winning the battles but the WAR will be won by the most pure, the most powerful, the true religion..ISLAM :)

bring it on!

The fact that they are resorting to persecution, rape, torture, massacres really shows they have lost the battle.

[MG]

The fact that they are resorting to persecution, rape, torture, massacres really shows they have lost the battle.


astaghfirulla they make me wanna vomit, i feel for the brothers and sisters weho have been victims to these ignorant fools,may Allah swt ease there suffering and give them the sabr to get thru this difficult time for the ummah and for those who have lost their lives, may Allah swt bless them with jannah.Ameen.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

astaghfirulla they make me wanna vomit, i feel for the brothers and sisters weho have been victims to these ignorant fools,may Allah swt ease there suffering and give them the sabr to get thru this difficult time for the ummah and for those who have lost their lives, may Allah swt bless them with jannah.Ameen.


Actually, we shouldnt feel sorry for them because they all die Shaheed. We should feel sorry for ourselves for abandoning our bros and sis and not raising our voices. :(

[MG]

Actually, we shouldnt feel sorry for them because they all die Shaheed. We should feel sorry for ourselves for abandoning our bros and sis and not raising our voices. :(

:(

May Allah swt forgive us and give us the strength and guidance to please him and protect our bros and sisters.Ameen.


Allah knows best.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

:(

May Allah swt forgive us and give us the strength and guidance to please him and protect our bros and sisters.Ameen.


Allah knows best.


Ameen :)

There is alot to be done, and there is alot we can do.

[cruiser]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you would have more voting if you added .... Once the majority of peaceful Muslims rein in the lunatics who have hijacked their religion in order to fulfill their own retrograde political and economic agendas, the West and Islam will get along quite nicely.

[MG]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you would have more voting if you added .... Once the majority of peaceful Muslims rein in the lunatics who have hijacked their religion in order to fulfill their own retrograde political and economic agendas, the West and Islam will get along quite nicely.

here we go *yawn*

it makes me happy WHEN Islam wins , ignorance like this will inshallah be a staement of the past.

[Chained_Water]

this is defo a case of the WEST clashing with ISLAM, in there own words (actually a U.S diplomat) "Islam is taking over the world and we need to put a stop to it!!!"

dope.


If this aint a fight against islam then i dont know wat is, they invading only islamic countries, they stop muslims from wearing hijab, they arrest , kill and torutre innnocent muslims.

bottom line, they know Islam is the correct way,and their way of dealing with it is, killing the muslims.
Couldn't agree more.

You remind me of a lot of me sis :p

When I'm in a :mujahida: rampage in Current Events..

Last few months I've been reading your posts and thinking: you GO (muslim) girl :mujahida:

[moshyman]

Well it ain't bothering me so I don't care...

*walks off in opposite direction*





(typical thought process of many muslims)

[Chained_Water]

Well it ain't bothering me so I don't care...

*walks off in opposite direction*





(typical thought process of many muslims)

Yeh exactly.. and this kind of thinking make sme so :mad:

"What war on Islam? They are fighting terrorists not all Muslims" :vomit:

The kind of Muslims that GW Shrub would love.

[MG]

Couldn't agree more.

You remind me of a lot of me sis :p

When I'm in a :mujahida: rampage in Current Events..

Last few months I've been reading your posts and thinking: you GO (muslim) girl :mujahida:


hee hee, j/k sis, it jus makes me so angry the stuff i read, i mean, has ignorance prevailed so much? obviously has by some peoples thoughts/posts.

But yeah, i had a few PM,s about me goin

:mujahida: :boom: :badguy:

in current events. :D

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you would have more voting if you added .... Once the majority of peaceful Muslims rein in the lunatics who have hijacked their religion in order to fulfill their own retrograde political and economic agendas, the West and Islam will get along quite nicely.

Thats option 3... dude.

[moshyman]

The kind of Muslims that GW Shrub would love.

lol not bad...

I don't really see it as a clash of civilisations... it's more of a massacre behind a smokescreen...

[Chained_Water]

lol not bad...

I don't really see it as a clash of civilisations... it's more of a massacre behind a smokescreen...

How true.

[Chained_Water]

hee hee, j/k sis, it jus makes me so angry the stuff i read, i mean, has ignorance prevailed so much? obviously has by some peoples thoughts/posts.

But yeah, i had a few PM,s about me goin

:mujahida: :boom: :badguy:

in current events. :D

I know exactly how you feel sis :( ..there's just so much injustice and the fact that people are blind to it, excuse it, do nothing, don't care and take the side of the kaafirs just makes you :mad:

No matter where you go Muslims are suffering.. whether its the thousands being openly oppressed/bombed/abused in Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, France.. or the hundreds being locked up cloak and dagger and shipped off to Gitmo or god knows where.. and it seems like there is nothing you can do to stop it.

It seems like the only real option Muslims have is to sort themselves out and have an all out war and MAKE them listen. ..but when will that happen?

[MG]

I know exactly how you feel sis :( ..there's just so much injustice and the fact that people are blind to it, excuse it, do nothing, don't care and take the side of the kaafirs just makes you :mad:

No matter where you go Muslims are suffering.. whether its the thousands being openly oppressed/bombed/abused in Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir, France.. or the hundreds being locked up cloak and dagger and shipped off to Gitmo or god knows where.. and it seems like there is nothing you can do to stop it.

It seems like the only real option Muslims have is to sort themselves out and have an all out war and MAKE them listen. ..but when will that happen?


i kno wat u mean sis, dont worry ,the end is nigh and they know it, thats y like salman said, they stoop to lowly , undignified acts like they ar doing.

[Chained_Water]

c'mon guys keep this to the random thread.

Why? We haven't said anything random.

Moshy: I didn't incite anything.. I just made a comment of how things seem and what the viable options appear to be if you actually want something to improve. I know you're concerned bro :) ..can't help speaking what I feel though.

[moshyman]

Why? We haven't said anything random.

Moshy: I didn't incite anything.. I just made a comment of how things seem and what the viable options appear to be if you actually want something to improve. I know you're concerned bro :) ..can't help speaking what I feel though.

Me? Concerned? never... I must be pro-bush...

Bush Bush we know you, daddy was a...

[cruiser]

Thats option 3... dude. Doesn't look that way to me...dude...but if you would substitute my definition for the ambiguous explanation, I'll vote for # 3.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Doesn't look that way to me...dude...but if you would substitute my definition for the ambiguous explanation, I'll vote for # 3.

Good for you. :)

[Asiatic]

America’s Dreaded Destiny

1 America and her people have been here, according to history, since a few years after Columbus, the explorer. She conquered the aboriginal red Indians, the original owners of the land, whom she found here and took it for a home for herself and kind. She has continued conquering until her conquering power has gone around the earth affecting every civilized nation; submission to her will. She was successful in forcing other people to bow to her will -- whether they liked it or not.

2 Now it is the hand of God which is after America to force her into submission -- a hand from which we have no defense as it is written and prophesied in the Bible, under the name of Babylon.

3 Jeremiah 51:25: "Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain."

4 Jer. 51:53 says: "Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her saith the Lord.

5 America is under a destruction similar to that of ancient Babylon. In the Bible, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Revelation of John prophesied concerning her. Babylon, there-mentioned is a future Babylon, and not a Babylon of the past.

6 America has enslaved all of the so-called Negroes and her evil mistreatment of them is similar to ancient Babylon’s enslavement and mistreatment of the Jews, according to the scriptures. It took the hand of God to bring the king of Babylon and his people into submission to the power of God.

7 He brought the surrounding kings and their power against ancient Babylon in the prime; the height of her glory -- the hand writing on the wall -- the casting of Daniel and his followers into a fiery furnace; making drunk the people of God with their strong wines and then mocking them -- so has America done to the so-called Negro.

8 America makes him drunk with wine, whiskey and beer and then laughs at him. She put him into the fiery furnace -- burned him at the stake while sitting around with her families, drinking intoxicating drinks and laughing at the burning flesh of God’s people.

9 There is no justice whatsoever. As Revelation gives it, "She made all the world drink of the wine of her fornication." But an end is coming to such evil doings.

10 America has lived in peace -- so far as foreign war is concerned. She has destroyed other peoples and their towns and cities. She has leveled them to the ground. She is still prepared to do the same with her great stockpile.

11 She says she has enough bombs and destructive weapons to destroy all human beings on the face of the earth three times, and still have some left. Of this she boasts. But Allah (God) has said to me that He will destroy America. He will bring her to her knees (humiliation).

12 The destruction sent to ancient Babylon and recorded in the Bible is the answer to most of what He has said to me will come upon the now rich America. Rain, hail, snow and earthquakes

-- these weapons all belong to God. America, how do you fight an army like this?

13 The four mentioned weapons of Allah (God) cannot be ignored. The whole year has been a year thus far of Allah (God) plaguing America day and night with storms, rains, floods; killing and destroying property.

14 And now the coming winter -- hail has been falling in some places the size of golf balls, baseballs and footballs.

15 The rain continues to fall in places and a dreadful snow blizzard is now in the workings. A cold wind is brewing in the North to come against America, as it is written and prophesied in Job 38:22-23: "Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or has thou seen the treasures of the hail, which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?"

16 Earthquakes are now again to be recognized, touching America lightly -- but nevertheless they are here. With all of her wealth and preachings of Christianity, she has not been a good Christian herself. As Jeremiah says: "Arise, get you up unto the wealthy nation, that dwelleth without care, saith the Lord, which have neither gates nor bars, which dwell alone."

17 This corresponds to America. She lives situated between the two greatest bodies of water of the earth, the Atlantic and the Pacific. And she is very careless. She rejoices in her evil and filth as though she is self-protected from the divine hand of God.

18 Jer. 50:31 prophesies: "Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord God of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee." Allah (God) is visiting America with great destruction which He has to pour upon wicked America.

19 After their mistreatment of the so-called Negro for four hundred years, she desires now to deceive them and to cause them to suffer with her and share in her doom.

20 Jer. 50:6 -- "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they (white and Black preachers of Christianity) have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place." (Their native people and country).

21 Jer. 50:7 " All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the Lord, the habitation of justice, even the Lord, the hope of their fathers."

22 Since the white man has made the so-called Negro as wicked a person as himself now, these are the words that he speaks: "They are just as evil as we; therefore, Allah God is against them, too." The so-called Negro repeats the same and says the white man is no worse than the so-called Negro.

23 The white man has opened all of his doors and avenues of temptation to lure the Negro in for total destruction.

24 Again we have a warning to leave a people with whom God is angry as the people of ancient Babylon were warned to do.

25 Jer. 51:45 -- "My people, go yet out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord."



26 All of the plagues, destructions and judgment which Allah (God) used to destroy the wicked and disobedient from the time of Adam until this day will be brought upon America. Then she will be burned with fire. This is the time of trouble that shall bring America into insanity.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

America’s Dreaded Destiny





1 America and her people have been here, according to history, since a few years after Columbus, the explorer. She conquered the aboriginal red Indians, the original owners of the land, whom she found here and took it for a home for herself and kind. She has continued conquering until her conquering power has gone around the earth affecting every civilized nation; submission to her will. She was successful in forcing other people to bow to her will -- whether they liked it or not.

2 Now it is the hand of God which is after America to force her into submission -- a hand from which we have no defense as it is written and prophesied in the Bible, under the name of Babylon.

3 Jeremiah 51:25: "Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the Lord, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain."

4 Jer. 51:53 says: "Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her saith the Lord.

5 America is under a destruction similar to that of ancient Babylon. In the Bible, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Revelation of John prophesied concerning her. Babylon, there-mentioned is a future Babylon, and not a Babylon of the past.

6 America has enslaved all of the so-called Negroes and her evil mistreatment of them is similar to ancient Babylon’s enslavement and mistreatment of the Jews, according to the scriptures. It took the hand of God to bring the king of Babylon and his people into submission to the power of God.

7 He brought the surrounding kings and their power against ancient Babylon in the prime; the height of her glory -- the hand writing on the wall -- the casting of Daniel and his followers into a fiery furnace; making drunk the people of God with their strong wines and then mocking them -- so has America done to the so-called Negro.

8 America makes him drunk with wine, whiskey and beer and then laughs at him. She put him into the fiery furnace -- burned him at the stake while sitting around with her families, drinking intoxicating drinks and laughing at the burning flesh of God’s people.

9 There is no justice whatsoever. As Revelation gives it, "She made all the world drink of the wine of her fornication." But an end is coming to such evil doings.

10 America has lived in peace -- so far as foreign war is concerned. She has destroyed other peoples and their towns and cities. She has leveled them to the ground. She is still prepared to do the same with her great stockpile.

11 She says she has enough bombs and destructive weapons to destroy all human beings on the face of the earth three times, and still have some left. Of this she boasts. But Allah (God) has said to me that He will destroy America. He will bring her to her knees (humiliation).

12 The destruction sent to ancient Babylon and recorded in the Bible is the answer to most of what He has said to me will come upon the now rich America. Rain, hail, snow and earthquakes

-- these weapons all belong to God. America, how do you fight an army like this?

13 The four mentioned weapons of Allah (God) cannot be ignored. The whole year has been a year thus far of Allah (God) plaguing America day and night with storms, rains, floods; killing and destroying property.

14 And now the coming winter -- hail has been falling in some places the size of golf balls, baseballs and footballs.

15 The rain continues to fall in places and a dreadful snow blizzard is now in the workings. A cold wind is brewing in the North to come against America, as it is written and prophesied in Job 38:22-23: "Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or has thou seen the treasures of the hail, which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?"

16 Earthquakes are now again to be recognized, touching America lightly -- but nevertheless they are here. With all of her wealth and preachings of Christianity, she has not been a good Christian herself. As Jeremiah says: "Arise, get you up unto the wealthy nation, that dwelleth without care, saith the Lord, which have neither gates nor bars, which dwell alone."

17 This corresponds to America. She lives situated between the two greatest bodies of water of the earth, the Atlantic and the Pacific. And she is very careless. She rejoices in her evil and filth as though she is self-protected from the divine hand of God.

18 Jer. 50:31 prophesies: "Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord God of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee." Allah (God) is visiting America with great destruction which He has to pour upon wicked America.

19 After their mistreatment of the so-called Negro for four hundred years, she desires now to deceive them and to cause them to suffer with her and share in her doom.

20 Jer. 50:6 -- "My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they (white and Black preachers of Christianity) have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their resting place." (Their native people and country).

21 Jer. 50:7 " All that found them have devoured them: and their adversaries said, We offend not, because they have sinned against the Lord, the habitation of justice, even the Lord, the hope of their fathers."

22 Since the white man has made the so-called Negro as wicked a person as himself now, these are the words that he speaks: "They are just as evil as we; therefore, Allah God is against them, too." The so-called Negro repeats the same and says the white man is no worse than the so-called Negro.

23 The white man has opened all of his doors and avenues of temptation to lure the Negro in for total destruction.

24 Again we have a warning to leave a people with whom God is angry as the people of ancient Babylon were warned to do.

25 Jer. 51:45 -- "My people, go yet out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the Lord."



26 All of the plagues, destructions and judgment which Allah (God) used to destroy the wicked and disobedient from the time of Adam until this day will be brought upon America. Then she will be burned with fire. This is the time of trouble that shall bring America into insanity.



So what does all that mean?

there is or isnt a clash of civilisations? :rolleyes:

[cruiser]

Wow, football sized hail..pray tell who is Allah allegedley speaking to in this doomsday prediction ? I really like the " a nation can rise no higher than its woman" bit, particularly coming from a patriarchal system.If you substituted "tyrannical oppressive qausi-religious political ruling caste" for "nation", it sums up nicely the demise of the taliban.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Wow, football sized hail..pray tell who is Allah allegedley speaking to in this doomsday prediction ? I really like the " a nation can rise no higher than its woman" bit, particularly coming from a patriarchal system.If you substituted "tyrannical oppressive qausi-religious political ruling caste" for "nation", it sums up nicely the demise of the taliban.

Demise of Taliban was result of carpet bombing, massacring, and mass arrest and illegal imprisonment at camp bay. If i can remember

[cruiser]

Spoken as a true revisionist.

[MG]

Spoken as a true revisionist.

and that makes u a..........???????

[cruiser]

you pick.it's all rock n roll to me.

[Aliali]

Islam and the Western faiths are just beliefs and they are all allowed to flourish. After all, they are all beliefs, not facts.

[Salman Al-Farsi]

Islam and the Western faiths are just beliefs and they are all allowed to flourish. After all, they are all beliefs, not facts.

Islam is a doctrine based on irrefuteable facts.

[imran1976]

definitely it's a clash of civilization. After the end of communism america/europe see's Islam as a threat to their existing capitalistic system. Islam is not just about belief's rather it provides a complete system of life.

Our Islamic system is the opposite to their's capitalistic system.
We believe that the soverignty belongs to Allah whereas they say soverignty is of the people...... Political system

There's no place of interest/speculation in an Islamic system, whereas their whole economy is based on interest/specualtion......Economic system

We have our own family/moral values & it works in a systematic way whereas they have nothing to do with family/moral values....Social system

Our system doesn't agree with theirs in any of the aspects. I don't see them having any problems with our saying of prayers/paying zakat/fasting etc. etc. but the only problem arises when we talk of our own 'Islamic sytem' .

[MG]

Islam and the Western faiths are just beliefs and they are all allowed to flourish. After all, they are all beliefs, not facts.


:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

[AbuSadiq]

As salaamu alaikum!

Brothers and Sisters,

The topic of this poll is very revealing! Though I voted in favour of the last option, I have some reservations about "the co-existence" of Islam and the west in the same global sphere.

This will be possible only if the west is ready to appreciate the values and the overwhelming scope of the Islamic religion as far as life and materialism is concern. But in a situation where one civilisation does not concern itself with religion on viritually every aspect of life, and the other considers religion, per se, as the basis and platform of its existence, as its applicable today, a harmonious co-existence between the two civilisations is not possible, at all. Or how do we see it?

Abdullahi

[Supernova Nebula]

Islam is a doctrine based on irrefuteable facts.

islam is not a doctrine. A doctrine is always subject to thesis, antithesis and could be synthesis, like Socialism as the anti-thesis of Capitalism, and both are doctrines. Doctrine like Ideology is subject to change or improvement, (well, if there is) if not total rejection like theory. Islam is a perfect way of life, no doctrine nor ideology can match it.

[Supernova Nebula]

bro Salman dude, the Clash of Civilizations, by Hutington is boring, stale issue. I'm a pessimist... hehe, my own term in intellectual history. I belong to Toynbee pessimist club .. the fall of the west. Emperium Americanum will fall by its own uncontrolled imperialistic expansion like the way the Greek and the Roman empires fell.:up:

[Mustafa83]

i voted for number 2 mainly cause there is still slavery going on in islam countrys i saw a thread in general about chidlern being kidnapped for camel raceing and also in saudi arabia people dont have that many rights. they need to adapt a few things frrom the west they need to build economy and use the oil money they have to improve peoples lives and get internet and space technology most people in muslim countrys dont even own a computer or never even used one before they need to get into the digitel age.

[sadia]

Assalamu Alaikum
I voted for the last and the first!
Well there is a clash between Islam and the West because we do everything opposite of them. We don't use interest-which their economy is based on. We don't buy into the materialistic nature of their lifestyles-which is what their economy is based on. We also don't subject women to physical scrutiny which can result in psychological and social problems, which is what you will see everywhere around you.

In my opinion, however, always seeing the effects of not having Islam around you really makes you appreciate Islam and follow it closely. In the West we have the Freedom to do that, so in this case it would make it feasible for the two to co-exist.

[AbuMubarak]

my vote is based upon quran and sunnah

there is no coexistence between kufr and imaan, except that they pay the jizya and they feel themselves subdued

otherwise, the kuffar will oppress the muslims, either physically, socially, and morally