HSBC Bank joins war on terror

[Amatullah]

HSBC Bank joins war on terror



Action Alert – FreeBabarAhmad Campaign




BACKGROUND

Since the launch of the HSBC Amanah finance, many Muslims have opened accounts and used the system to buy property, take loans, e.t.c. they have portrayed themselves as being "sensitive to Muslim needs" within the banking system, therefore grabbing a piece of the market which was previously untouched by any high street banking institution. No doubt this has contributed to HSBC declaring last year a profit of £9bn which if calculated equals £327 per second. However Muslims need to think again about banking with HSBC. In <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on">Britain</ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>'s recent war on Muslims, the authorities have been requesting banks to close accounts of Muslims in <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on">Britain</ST1:COUNTRY-REGION></ST1:PLACE> without giving any reason or explanation. 'Amanah' means trust, however through the actions of HSBC they have clearly demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with your money and instead are taking advantage of you.

HSBC has recently decided to close the three bank accounts of Babar Ahmad, a British Muslim facing extradition to the <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on">U.S.</ST1:COUNTRY-REGION></ST1:PLACE> on allegations of supporting terrorism. His three bank accounts were held at HSBC High Street Kensington Branch, <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on">London</ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE> and were used to pay the house bills of his retired, elderly parents via a number of standing orders and direct debits. None of the allegations against him refer to fraudulent use of any financial system, let alone fraudulent use of his HSBC accounts. This has increased the stress and pressure on his elderly, 70-year old parents, who are already finding it hard to cope with the present situation. This outrageous decision by HSBC is based on the same political hysteria as Bush and Blair's War on Terror.

We, the British public Muslim or not, need to make a united stand now against HSBC otherwise they will terrorise other Muslims and families. We need to put a stop to this now.

See the video of the HSBC bank job (http://www.stoppoliticalterror.com/media/hsbc150405.ram) (17mins, 28.3mb) for those that are still in doubt.

<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>

ACTION PLAN <O:P></O:P>

These are the steps that need to be taken by every concerned individual:

1. Tell as many people as possible, via phone, email, e.t.c.

2. Telephone Peter Shearing, the Bank Manager of HSBC, High Street Kensington, on 0207 301 1049 or email him on petershearing@hsbc.com (http://us.f257.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=petershearing@hsbc.com) demanding reinstatement of Babar Ahmad's accounts, compensation due to the immense stress caused on his elderly parents and a public apology. If for whatever reason Peter decides to change his number (due to the volume of 'polite' phone calls, you can ring this number instead and ask to be directed to Peter Shearing the branch Manager.

3. Lodge a formal complaint with Customer Relations Head Office by ringing 0800 881 155 or email customer relations at customerrelations@hsbc.com (http://us.f257.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=customerrelations@hsbc.com).

4. If you find all the above telephone lines are busy or that they have been changed, then ring this number 0800 032 4738. This is the account opening number which will always be available at HSBC<O:P></O:P>



SEE FULL DETAILS (http://www.stoppoliticalterror.com/alertsingle.php?alert=30)

[niqaabi_18]

jazakallah for da info

[~Stanley~]

I find it hard to fathom that you would sacrifice all the good which has come from this endeavor simply
due to their cooperation in dealing with the bringing to justice of a criminal.

[Arsalan]

that wasnt fathom , it was Amatullah.

and such practices are only the beginning of finacnial regulartion of muslims and stealing their wealth ( again )

[Sophiya]

abdulmajid- i don't know whether u were kidding or not- but fathom is a word means he can't comprehend, why yu would boycott over one thing...

stanley, u have to understand that once ur a muslim, we all look oout for each other- regardless of the price in this sense.

if we let this one go- what next?

[~Stanley~]

if we let this one go- what next?

So, it is permissible to harbor and assist a fugitive and criminal as long as he is a muslim?

Perhaps it is for this reason (not cleaning your own house) that the entire Middle East region
has been in a state of perpetual war for the last 6,000 years?


If Islam is the closest thing to reaching Allah,
would it not also dictate that troublemakers be routed out from within your ranks?

[SC_Override]

[/size]

So, it is permissible to harbor and assist a fugitive and criminal as long as he is a muslim?

Perhaps it is for this reason (not cleaning your own house) that the entire Middle East region
has been in a state of perpetual war for the last 6,000 years?


If Islam is the closest thing to reaching Allah,
would it not also dictate that troublemakers be routed out from within your ranks?



Who are we to say that they are trouble makers? What evidence do you have to make such assertions? Maybe in your religion you are allowed to put people to death without putting them on trial. But in Islam all accusations made against a person must be investigated. Muslims are mainly disgusted by this because of the unfair treatment these Muslims are getting just because they are Muslims. Unfortunately, Christians have a long history of putting people to death without trial or at least conducting a fair trial. Unfortunately, people as gullible as you who continue to support terrorists like George Bush and Tony Blair, who have committed war crimes against humanity, who have ordered soldiers to blow up innocent civilians, who support and aid oppressive regimes such as Israel, I can only say that things can only get worse. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[yorkshireman]

Lobbying HSBC is completely pointless as they have no choice in the matter. Do you honestly think banks can decide to freeze the assets of their customers of their own accord? An order has obviously be made and the bank has no choice in whether to comply or not. Harassing HSBC over this is like the supporters of someone who happened to be arrested in Woolworths lobbying Woolworths for his release.

Not very bright.

[Sophiya]

[/size]

So, it is permissible to harbor and assist a fugitive and criminal as long as he is a muslim?

Perhaps it is for this reason (not cleaning your own house) that the entire Middle East region
has been in a state of perpetual war for the last 6,000 years?


If Islam is the closest thing to reaching Allah,
would it not also dictate that troublemakers be routed out from within your ranks?

i think you will find i said.. in this case

there are muslims then there are believers; look at the middle east, some were muslims and really didn't hold islam truelly and just were muslims iin the sake of name only

[~Stanley~]

i think you will find i said.. in this case.
I truly find it very hard to believe that the full story is being told here.
Why would TWO POWERFUL WORLD GOVERNMENTS and a Banking institution, when presented with evidence, ruin a man who is simply caring for his elderly mother?
I believe the original post in this thread is a plea for sympathy and a venue to garner support by deceiving fellow muslims without providing ALL the facts of the case.

HSBC has recently decided to close the three bank accounts of Babar Ahmad, a British Muslim facing extradition to the <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on">U.S.</ST1:COUNTRY-REGION></ST1:PLACE> on allegations of supporting terrorism. His three bank accounts were held at HSBC High Street Kensington Branch, <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on">London</ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE> and were used to pay the house bills of his retired, elderly parents via a number of standing orders and direct debits. None of the allegations against him refer to fraudulent use of any financial system, let alone fraudulent use of his HSBC accounts.

http://www.freebabarahmad.com/mb_image.jpg
Is this the face of a Terrorist?
http://www.freebabarahmad.com/

The full text of the US Government indictment against Babar Ahmad (http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/ahmad/usahmad72804cmp.pdf) (.pdf)
http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/ahmad/usahmad72804cmp.pdf

The list of proscribed terrorist groups published by the Home Office (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/terrorism/threat/groups/index.html)

[Sophiya]

why the trust?

even if it is true in this case, do you honestly think they have always done the right- maybe this is a case of doing it for the sake of doing it, no need for justification

[~Stanley~]

why the trust?

even if it is true in this case, do you honestly think they have always done the right- maybe this is a case of doing it for the sake of doing it, no need for justification

Who are we to say that they are trouble makers? What evidence do you have to make such assertions? Maybe in your religion you are allowed to put people to death without putting them on trial. But in Islam all accusations made against a person must be investigated.

Who are we to say that they are trouble makers?
It is not the average citizen who holds court over actions but, governments and Judges who oversee our societies safety and security.

What evidence do you have to make such assertions?
The full text of the US Government indictment against Babar Ahmad (http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/ahmad/usahmad72804cmp.pdf) (.pdf)
http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/ah...mad72804cmp.pdf (http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/ahmad/usahmad72804cmp.pdf)

The list of proscribed terrorist groups published by the Home Office (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/terrorism/threat/groups/index.html)

***Maybe in your religion you are allowed to put people to death without putting them on trial.
It's hard for me to understand how another could make such a statement without any facts.
You (and others) assume that simply due to my not being a proclaimed Muslim, I am your enemy
or seek to suppress Islam for the benefit of that which I believe to be the truth.
I understand that many new people come and go through this forum but, I have been posting here for quite some time now, and still, after all my words and heart felt postings, it seems nobody really knows what I'm saying. :embar:

***But in Islam all accusations made against a person must be investigated.
If I may ask, are those who are considered Jihadi fighters, part & parcel a piece of ISLAM?
Is the leadership behind those who conduct destructive, violent murder, part & parcel a piece of ISLAM?
If this is the case, then "***But in Islam ..." is being violated and perpetrated daily by fellow muslims yet, there actions are encouraged.
If the Leadership within Islam contends they have an enemy which needs to be battled,
"cutting off the head of the snake, solves the problem quickly".
Blowing up unknown individuals, killing and maiming them due to a disagreement with another entity,
is MURDER without "all accusations made against a person (must be) being investigated".

Do you agree ?

[*IslamicGirl*]

You (and others) assume that simply due to my not being a proclaimed Muslim, I am your enemy
or seek to suppress Islam for the benefit of that which I believe to be the truth.
I understand that many new people come and go through this forum but, I have been posting here for quite some time now, and still, after all my words and heart felt postings, it seems nobody really knows what I'm saying. :embar:

Stan if you believe it to be the truth, shouldn't you rush to embrace it, i'd gladly have you as an elder brother if you reverted sincerely! :)

Best wishes
IG

[~Stanley~]

Stan if you believe it to be the truth, shouldn't you rush to embrace it, i'd gladly have you as an elder brother if you reverted sincerely! :)

Best wishes
IG


*IslamicGirl*, What IS truth ? And, who know's IT ?


You see IG, I can only know that which I believe to be TRUTH.
I can, and do explain to others what I believe to be the true and correct path yet,
I am in no position, nor would I desire to be, to demand another follow that which I believe to be truth.
Mine eyes have not witnessed what another has, therefore their truth would naturally be different than mine.
I DO embrace my own truth, in my own way, and promote it as I see an opening.
Yet, it is only for the receiving individuals benefit that I speak, not my own or my so-called Religion.

[Sophiya]

i would whole- heartedly second that

stanley you can never please the whole world, most of us get what you are saying but i am sure you'll be the first to agree that people don't always see eye to eye

i am just asking you questions like your information is from the government and isn't always necessarily neutral- rather brutally biased ( so i guess i feel you don't understand what i am trying to say

i am just trying to say that you can't believe one way or the other without questionning- a bit of health suspicion goes a long way!

[~Stanley~]

i am just trying to say that you can't believe one way or the other without questionning-
a bit of health suspicion goes a long way!

Is it not a TWO-WAY street ?

[Sophiya]

*IslamicGirl*, What IS truth ? And, who know's IT ?


You see IG, I can only know that which I believe to be TRUTH.
I can, and do explain to others what I believe to be the true and correct path yet,
I am in no position, nor would I desire to be, to demand another follow that which I believe to be truth.
Mine eyes have not witnessed what another has, therefore their truth would naturally be different than mine.
I DO embrace my own truth, in my own way, and promote it as I see an opening.
Yet, it is only for the receiving individuals benefit that I speak, not my own or my so-called Religion.


stan you know thats a cop out!
truth is no different and doesn't vary from one person to the other
if something was the colour blue and people were there to see it, then they owuld all say it was blue

differences occur when people weren't there and it changes from blue to indigo and before long red! are they all telling the truth?

[Sophiya]

Is it not a TWO-WAY street ?

what is?

you can't always have a 2 way street, sometimes u need a 1 way street to protect and maintain things from corrupting

[*IslamicGirl*]

:start:


:salams


STAN thanks 4 the colourful writing :D


BTW 2 q's i need 2 ask you

1) DO you belive in one god (Allah)?

2) Do you believe Muhammad :saw: Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him is the last and Final Messenger of Allah?

:)

:wavey:

:salams

[dhakiyya]

well I'd expect nothing less from the bank that holds the greatest amount of third world debt. I always wondered how it was that a bank that makes so much money from usury, usury in its most ugly form, which leeches wealth that should have been spent on healthcare and education and in developing sustainable technology and agriculture in the poorest of communities in the world, can have an account that is considered halal.

[dhakiyya]

Also, you should be aware that the Alliance and Leicester closed the accounts of several Palestinian organisations recently, with no warning or explanation, and these organisations have lost a lot of money where members/donors were paying by direct debit, and the direct debits were not transferred. I know because as a member of one of these organisations I recieved an urgent alert to change my direct debit to their new accout, which I did, but they were unable to contact everyone on this issue.

[Makki]

Why would TWO POWERFUL WORLD GOVERNMENTS and a Banking institution, when presented with evidence, ruin a man who is simply caring for his elderly mother?

why would two powerful world governments go to war with a third world country destroy its infrastructure, social fabric and thousands of lives, and then force the same country to pay for its own rebuilding through an oppresive food for oil programme?

the IMF a banking institution destroys millions of people's human dignity, way of life and takes ridiculous percentages of money from amongst the poorest people in the world every year.

is the scenario you mentioned really so hard to believe?

[Haz]

Here we go again. why are we so obssesed in thinking the whole world is against us? If thats the case you wont find muslims living in the west or east. have we developed a mind set thinking all the non-muslims are bad and we are the good peaple fighting a loan battle against evil. Well then someone explain the regents park mosque debacle.

The Islamic mortgage scheme isnt without dogginess anyway. Why would someone fall for it, i dont know.

Then again if you going to say not to keep your money at HSBC where else can we go!!!! It is the most secured bank compared to others.

As muslims we shouldnt fall in to these idiotic conspiracies. Think then act.

[dhakiyya]

There are Muslim banks, but if you cannot access a Muslim bank, the co-op bank has an interest free current account (though you have to pay interest if you go overdrawn so don't go overdrawn), it has an ethical policy whereby it has nothign whatsoever to do with third world debt or currency speculation (which are both devistating to small economies in the third world) - it refuses to have anything to do with companies that sell alcohol or tobacco, or destroy the environment, and it actively seeks out ethical, environmentally friendly companies to invest in. It's not perfect by Muslim standards, they still practice some forms of usury, but it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the likes of HSBC, Barclays and the rest. In fact, I'm going to be writing to them to ask them to consider setting up Islamic bank accounts, so that Muslims can have a 100% halal account in a bank that has ethics, rather than an account in a bank that leeches so much wealth from the poorest people.

Makki :up: what you say about the IMF is spot on, and it's nothing to do with "conspiricy against Muslims" because you'll find many worldwide charitable organisations condemning it for exactly what you said.

[~Stanley~]

......is the scenario you mentioned really so hard to believe?

No, absolutely not !
Yet, conspiracy theories which only serve to enflame the populas without providing an alternative are not healthy activities either.

[Haz]

No islamic institution can be said to be in accordance to shariah unless its operated under a government implementing the shariah. However if Co-operative banks are interest free and therefore involves less sin then we should be having accounts their.

Anyways how many co-op banks are their in britain, i hardly know any.

[Makki]

Anyways how many co-op banks are their in britain, i hardly know any.

subhanallah there arent many around :(

"A time is coming to mankind when only the receiver of usury will remain and if he does not receive it, some of its vapour will reach him." Sayings of Nabi Muhammad. by Prof. Ghazi Ahmad

[dhakiyya]

No islamic institution can be said to be in accordance to shariah unless its operated under a government implementing the shariah. However if Co-operative banks are interest free and therefore involves less sin then we should be having accounts their.

Anyways how many co-op banks are their in britain, i hardly know any.

There are quite a few, generally in big towns, but they do telephone and internet banking, and you can make deposits through the post office (which are everywhere!) Most of the time I use the phone banking, but apart from in Wales (forty miles to the nearest big town!) everywhere else I've lived I've been able to get to one of their branches resonably easily.

they do different accounts, check that you get the current account which is interest free - they have different accounts and not all are interest free. (nb. going into debt will not be interest free though, except some accounts it may be possible to arrange an interest free overdraft, e.g. the student account - but of course it is far better not to go into debt in the first place.)

[dhakiyya]

No, absolutely not !
Yet, conspiracy theories which only serve to enflame the populas without providing an alternative are not healthy activities either.

What is a "conspiracy theory"? Is it a "conspiracy theory" when people point out corruption in big business/banking? Is anyone who demonstrates such corruption a "conspiracy theorist"?

It's not exactly surprising that those who practice such corruption would also slander those who expose corruption. Whilst there are some entirely bizarre "the queen is a shapeshifting lizard" type conspiracy theories, this does not mean that anyone who attempts to expose corruption is in the same category, however much big business/banking institutions would have the populus believe. "Hey, lets all lump them in together so anyone who criticises us gets accused of being a nutter" - it's not far fetched, is it? Do you really want to be one of the people that allows corruption to exist because you were afriad to be slandered by the corrupt ones?

[~Stanley~]

Whilst there are some entirely bizarre "the queen is a shapeshifting lizard" .......?


LOL ! Yeah, I've heard of that one !

I understand full well that corruption runs rampant throughout Mankind.
This whole thread is based upon the notion that since one man out of millions has been singled out due to his recorded activities pointing to his being a "bad seed", the entire system should be dismantled.

Just suppose the charges against this man are true and correct,
would you be opposed to the action taken against him then as well ?

I truly believe this thread is meant only to enflame hostilities against non-Muslims.

[dhakiyya]

Have you ever tried to translate "the queen is a shapeshifting lizard" into Arabic? I attempted it but there is no Arabic word meaning "shapeshifting" according to my Arabic teacher who is a native speaker. If any other native Arabic speakers can tell me a translation I'd appreciate it :up:

The way they handled that particular matter was totally wrong (and I don't think it is a conspiracy theory btw), and we should boycott them because of it, but I already boycott them because of 3rd world debt, I won't even use their cash machines if I can help it (though using the cash machine does not help them in any way)) - and actually this kind of behaviur from HSBC comes as no surprise whatsoever, and wouldn't do to anyone who is aware of the way the banking industry works.

[Arsalan]

Have you ever tried to translate "the queen is a shapeshifting lizard" into Arabic? I attempted it but there is no Arabic word meaning "shapeshifting" according to my Arabic teacher who is a native speaker. If any other native Arabic speakers can tell me a translation I'd appreciate it :up:

The way they handled that particular matter was totally wrong (and I don't think it is a conspiracy theory btw), and we should boycott them because of it, but I already boycott them because of 3rd world debt, I won't even use their cash machines if I can help it (though using the cash machine does not help them in any way)) - and actually this kind of behaviur from HSBC comes as no surprise whatsoever, and wouldn't do to anyone who is aware of the way the banking industry works.

The banks use our cash to palay the markets and make more money, in a way they gamble with thier financial derivitive instruments. and they need our deposits to do that. shutting them down is partly their loss too, but nowadays being "ethical" also means bowing down to the will of hypociritucal western insitutions and goverments and fighint islam financially through boycotts. ( e.g. the Babar Ahmad case ( guilty till proven innocent, ) .at least we can do the same..

true, but that would also imply boycotting profiteering monopolising companies like tescos . but with banks.. ithink we should start with alliance and liester for sure, accorind to what you said b4. Muslims have becomingg politically and economically more aware, but there is still a long way to go.

[~Stanley~]

Have you ever tried to translate "the queen is a shapeshifting lizard" into Arabic?

Would not this problem be solved if all the wealthy Arab/Muslim countries formed their own banking system rather than dealing with the world bank agencies?

I constantly hear complaints against the Western systems of government and finance yet,
everybody keeps taking from us,
while complaining that we don't act like they believe we should in their eyes.

If there should be any REVOLUTION within Islam,
I believe it should be directed at MUSLIM's and not non-muslims who offer assistance (even at a price).

In the rest of this thread,
why not list solutions which would benefit muslims rather than tearing apart those who offer help?

[dhakiyya]

The banks use our cash to palay the markets and make more money, in a way they gamble with thier financial derivitive instruments. and they need our deposits to do that. shutting them down is partly their loss too, but nowadays being "ethical" also means bowing down to the will of hypociritucal western insitutions and goverments and fighint islam financially through boycotts. ( e.g. the Babar Ahmad case ( guilty till proven innocent, ) .at least we can do the same..

being ethical means doing what is right, and as a Muslim I believe that 100% halal is ethical, and that certain ethical choices (e.g. trying to avoid those who practice corruption, invest in alcohol etc) are required for Muslims (a way of enjoining good and forbidding evil). The problem is, it is impossible to be completely 100% ethical/halal in western countries, even the money itself is usurious, some types of companies all of them are unethical, e.g. clothing companies and sweatshops, it is very hard to find clothing that isn't sweatshop made, and almost all of some types of food are unfairly traded with huge markups for the company and next to nothing for the farmers that produced them - which means we are often forced to buy things that are not ethical.

However by boycotting as much unethical stuff as you can, you have less sin on you than by not boycotting. For example the co-op bank, whilst not perfect, is more ethical than the other highstreet banks and its current account is interest free if you stay in credit, so until there is an even more (preferably 100%!) ethical/halal bank, my money is staying with them.

true, but that would also imply boycotting profiteering monopolising companies like tescos . but with banks.. ithink we should start with alliance and liester for sure, accorind to what you said b4. Muslims have becomingg politically and economically more aware, but there is still a long way to go.

I am not currently boycotting supermarkets altogether, though inshallah when I move to exeter it may be easier (due to more small businesses, more farms, easier availability of local, organic produce etc) because I do believe that they should be boycotted where they are behaving unethically. From my research Sainsbury's is more ethical than tescos, having a better track record on environmental issues, but they all sell Isreali food :mad: but the problem is in many parts of the UK some things can only be bought from supermarkets because they put the small businsses out of business.

If you are interested in my ideas of how to live a 100% halal lifestyle, its in a thread started by Salman al Farsi called "living in the west" or something like that. The first part is arguing about voting, but we stopped arguing and started discussing stuff we did agree on about how to be 100% halal.

[~Stanley~]

Since we are discussing this topic, I would like to offer a policy statement which I wrote about 6 months ago and attempted to have it implimented into our Presidential campaign as an issue.

Please take a second and read it, then let us continue discussing SOLUTIONS to our world's problems
rather than our distrust and grievances.

~Richard Owl Mirror~

[dhakiyya]

Solution to the problem of third world debt. Cancel it immediately. Not difficult is it?

Solution to the problems of bankers - intruduce usury free money. In fact, if people just stopped using money and used some other means of exchange for transations, there's not a lot the banks can do about it. They will collapse, but local economies would not, because the new means of exchange would keep it going. There would be none of the instability or continual devaluing of currency that is the result of usury, local economies would be strengthened as the wealth is no longer being leeched by the banks.

[yorkshireman]

Solution to the problem of third world debt. Cancel it immediately. Not difficult is it?

Unless for any reason they ever wish to borrow money again. In which case its a death blow to them.

Solution to the problems of bankers - intruduce usury free money. In fact, if people just stopped using money and used some other means of exchange for transations, there's not a lot the banks can do about it. They will collapse, but local economies would not, because the new means of exchange would keep it going. There would be none of the instability or continual devaluing of currency that is the result of usury, local economies would be strengthened as the wealth is no longer being leeched by the banks.

If you want to lend your money to people without any interest or equity in what it was spent on then go ahead and do it. Most people would see that as rather a mugs game. Any business certainly would.

[dhakiyya]

Unless for any reason they ever wish to borrow money again. In which case its a death blow to them.

why? Whats wrong with a bit of charity to help them get started? Groups like Oxfam, people who work with sustainable technology and so on have far more success in helping people to be self sufficient than capitalists who simply seek to make them dependent on the capitalist economy.



If you want to lend your money to people without any interest or equity in what it was spent on then go ahead and do it. Most people would see that as rather a mugs game. Any business certainly would.

in Islam you can invest in a business and take a share in the profits, but there are rules about how you do this - I can't remember them exactly. there are halal ways to make profits, and there are haram ways. Obviously there are things that work in a usury based economy that would not work in a non usury economy. Also, in Islam you can only get rich from hard work, not from leeching wealth from others. This means that there is a better distribution of wealth, and whilst people can get rich, there will not be the huge gap between rich and poor that you get with usurious/capitalist economies.

The best essay I've read on Islamic economics is "trade and commerce in Islam" by UmarIbrahim Vadillo and Fazlun M Khalid in "Islam and ecology" edited by Fazlun M Khalid and Joanna O'Brien. They explain the whole thing better than my five minute ramble at 11:30pm

[Raven]

I find it hard to fathom that you would sacrifice all the good which has come from this endeavor simply
due to their cooperation in dealing with the bringing to justice of a criminal.

Stanley, you must realize that terrorism is okay as long as one is Muslim. Guys like him can call for the deaths of kuffar civilians all day and they will still have support of other Muslims.

I don't think these are the kind of people that banks should be doing business with anyways.

[~Stanley~]

Stanley, you must realize that terrorism is okay as long as one is Muslim.
Guys like him can call for the deaths of kuffar civilians all day,
and they will still have support of other Muslims.

I don't think these are the kind of people that banks should be doing business with anyways.

Similarly, is the recent arrest of the Afghani Heroin King pin who was selling his poison around the world
for the benefit of Islam and Usama Bin Ladens organization, against Islamic tenets?